7.6% of Lemmy servers are already running 0.19.8, released yesterday
FediDB, Fediverse Network Statistics
FediDB is a cutting-edge service providing detailed statistics and insights into the Fediverse network.fedidb.org
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Italy grants citizenship to Argentine President Javier Milei – DW – 12/14/2024
Italy grants citizenship to Argentine President Javier Milei
Italy has bestowed Italian citizenship on Argentine President Javier Milei. The procedure was reportedly initiated and fast-tracked by the government of Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni.Deutsche Welle
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I've always shaken my head at how, for example, in the US military and politicians can have an Israeli citizenship. How is that not a conflict of interest?
Politicians and Military personnel should have unequivocal allegiances.
Japanese researchers test pioneering drug to regrow teeth
Unlike reptiles and fish, which usually replace their fangs on a regular basis, it is widely accepted that humans and most other mammals only grow two sets of teeth.But hidden underneath our gums are the dormant buds of a third generation, according to Katsu Takahashi, head of oral surgery at the Medical Research Institute Kitano Hospital in Osaka.
[…]
Tests on mice and ferrets suggest that blocking a protein called USAG-1 can awaken the third set, and the researchers have published lab photographs of regrown animal teeth.In a study published last year, the team said their "antibody treatment in mice is effective for tooth regeneration and can be a breakthrough in treating tooth anomalies in humans".
Japanese researchers test pioneering drug to regrow teeth
People with missing teeth may be able to grow new ones, say Japanese dentists testing a pioneering drug they hope will offer an alternative to dentures and implants.Tomohiro OSAKI (Medical Xpress)
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OK, so you’re not really regrowing teeth, you’re growing a hidden, third, backup tooth using some sort of gene therapy.
Cool
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tooth formation gets funky the more teeth you grow
this sentence is quite cursed
Incus 6.8 has been released
Incus is a next-generation system container, application container, and virtual machine manager.
It provides a user experience similar to that of a public cloud. With it, you can easily mix and match both containers and virtual machines, sharing the same underlying storage and network.
Incus is image based and provides images for a wide number of Linux distributions. It provides flexibility and scalability for various use cases, with support for different storage backends and network types and the option to install on hardware ranging from an individual laptop or cloud instance to a full server rack.
When using Incus, you can manage your instances (containers and VMs) with a simple command line tool, directly through the REST API or by using third-party tools and integrations. Incus implements a single REST API for both local and remote access.
The Incus project was created by Aleksa Sarai as a community driven alternative to Canonical's LXD.
Today, it's led and maintained by many of the same people that once created LXD.
Incus 6.8 has been released
Introduction The Incus team is pleased to announce the release of Incus 6.8! This is the last release for 2024 but it still packs a punch with a bunch of VM related improvements, including the ability to move a running VM between storage pools, a ne…Linux Containers Forum
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I don't understand what you mean by "epic pile of hacks". Proxmox is just a Linux distribution, with a particular focus. All the software is the usual stuff with integration scripts and binaries and a webby front end. They start off with stock Debian and work up from there which is the way many distros work.
I'm not sure what Proxmox switching to Incus would really mean. They are both Linux distributions that focus on providing a VM and container wrangling system.
I happen to be porting rather a lot of VMware to Proxmox. My little company has a lot of VMware customers and I am rather busy moving them over. I picked Proxmox (Hyper-V? No thanks) about 18 months ago when the Broadcom thing came about and did my own home system first and then rather a lot of testing. I then sold the idea to the rest of my company and we made some plans and are now carrying those plan out.
Now, if Proxmox becomes toxic, I still have projects like Incus to fall back on. I ... WE ... have choice, and that is important. You can be sure that if Proxmox drops the ball, Veeam will suddenly support Incus or whatever the world decides is the next best thing in Linux VMs and container land.
I was a VMware consultant for 25 odd years. No longer (well I am still but only under mild protest!) I also have to wrangle a few Hyper-V clusters too. All of these bloody monolithic monstrosities work at the whim of massive corporations who really don't have your best interests at heart. They bleed you dry.
I like to have choice. Proxmox and Incus are both examples of choice. You start off with "I'd like to run VMs and containers on my hardware with software that is "open" and you have more than one option. You do not start off with: "I'd like a HyperV or VMware", nail your colours to the mast and live in a rather rubbish monoculture.
Sorry, I seem to have gone on a bit 8)
Well... If you’re running a modern version of Proxmox then you’re already running LXC containers so why not move to Incus that is made by the same people?
Proxmox (...) They start off with stock Debian and work up from there which is the way many distros work.
Proxmox has been using Ubuntu's kernel for a while now.
Now, if Proxmox becomes toxic
Proxmox is already toxic, it requires a payed license for the stable version and updates. Furthermore the Proxmox guys have been found to withhold important security updates from non-stable (not paying) users for weeks.
My little company has a lot of VMware customers and I am rather busy moving them over. I picked Proxmox (Hyper-V? No thanks) about 18 months ago when the Broadcom thing came about and did my own home system first and then rather a lot of testing.
If you're expecting the same type of reliably you've from VMware on Proxmox you're going to have a very hard time soon. I hope not, but I also know how Proxmox works.
I run Promox since 2009 and until very recently, professionally, in datacenters, multiple clusters around 10-15 nodes each which means that I’ve been around for all wins and fails of Proxmox. I saw the raise and fall of OpenVZ, the subsequent and painful move to LXC and the SLES/RHEL compatibility issues.
While Proxmox works most of the time and their payed support is decent I would never recommend it to anyone since Incus became a thing. The Promox PVE kernel has a lot of quirks, for starters it is build upon Ubuntu’s kernel – that is already a dumpster fire of hacks waiting for someone upstream to implement things properly so they can backport them and ditch their own implementations – and then it is a typically older version so mangled and twisted by the extra features garbage added on top.
I got burned countless times by Proxmox’s kernel. Broken drivers, waiting months for fixes already available upstream or so they would fix their own bugs. As practice examples, at some point OpenVPN was broken under Proxmox’s kernel, the Realtek networking has probably been broken for more time than working. ZFS support was introduced only to bring kernel panics. Upgrading Proxmox is always a shot in the dark and half of the time you get a half broken system that is able to boot and pass a few tests but that will randomly fail a few days later.
Proxmox’s startup is slow, slower than any other solution – it even includes management daemons that are there just there to ensure that other daemons are running. Most of the built-in daemons are so poorly written and tied together that they don’t even start with the system properly on the first try.
Why keep dragging all of the Proxmox overhead and potencial issues, if you can run a clean shop with Incus, actually made by the same people who make LXC?
If you’re expecting the same type of reliably you’ve from VMware on Proxmox you’re going to have a very hard time soon.
Try upgrading a v6.0 or even 6.5 ESXi from the command line. If there is no "enterprise" iLO or iDRAC or whatever with media redirection then you'll be jumping in the car. Or what about if, back in the day, you went ESX instead of ESXi? lol!
How often do you find yourself repairing a vCentre? Oh dear the SSL certs are fucked again, despite being fixed a few years back. Yes I can bring the bloody things back but I've also got longer Linux experience than VMware. Those 14 virty discs were a daft idea and let's dump the logs to all sorts of random areas and then stir them around every few versions. ... and its 400GB in size - even thin provisioned they are still huge for what they do.
How about when the Dell customised .iso was the only way to install on Rx10 hardware and then made the box unupgradable years later? or when the Intel NIC drivers got a bit confused - yay - PSoD?
Reliability: don't make me laugh!
I'm in the same boat, I tried Incus or rather LXD a couple months back and gave up after a little while due to pressing business needing the Proxmox machine up again.
I have two main requirements which I have for my server:
- It must support Home Assistant OS as a VM and a USB Dongle (Zwave)
I found this as a possible solution for LXD systems:
seanblanchfield.com/2023/05/ho… - It must support NFS exports so I can share my storage and data drives.
I'm pretty sure since it's on Debian, I can install Cockpit and it's sharing plugin for this.
I think the thing which scared me off at the time too was the lack of GUI which I think I may have missed. This may be a solution:
blog.simos.info/how-to-install…
I was just thinking about Incus the other day so this might be a good time to look into it more!
Arctic on fire: Wildfires turn polar region into carbon source
Arctic on fire: Wildfires turn polar region into carbon source - Oceanographic
A complex region going through a complex transformation, the Arctic tundra has shifted from a carbon storage to a source of carbon emissionRob Hutchins (Oceanographic Magazine)
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Potere al Popolo dares to dream of a more equitable future for Italy
Potere al Popolo dares to dream of a more equitable future for Italy : Peoples Dispatch
Activists from the left movement Potere al Popolo are shaping a new bold political and action program, set to build an Italy centered on participation, equity, and careAna Vračar (Peoples Dispatch)
Russian Troops Advance to Within 3 Miles of Key Ukrainian Transit Hub
Russian Troops Advance to Within 3 Miles of Key Ukrainian Transit Hub
Russia is pushing toward Pokrovsk, a strategic city for Ukraine’s army with important rail and road connections, in a rapid capturing of ground in the Donetsk region.Constant Méheut (The New York Times)
NYC Mayor Wants to Ban Masks in the Wake of Shooting Death of CEO Brian Thompson
NYC Mayor Wants to Ban Masks in the Wake of Shooting Death of CEO Brian Thompson
A look at how the shooting death of Brian Thompson is being used to re-ignite interest in banning masks in New York City - a move which would be a devastating blow to the disabled community.Broadwaybabyto (The Disabled Ginger)
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Americans spend more years being unhealthy than people in any other country
Americans spend more years being unhealthy than people in any other country
The gap between US lifespan and healthspan was 12.4 years, the world’s largest.Beth Mole (Ars Technica)
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UnitedHealth Is Strategically Limiting Access to Critical Treatment for Kids With Autism
UnitedHealth Limits Access to Key Treatment for Kids With Autism
Leaked internal documents show that the insurance giant is culling providers of applied behavior analysis from its network and scrutinizing the medical necessity of therapy. Advocates say the company’s strategy may be illegal.ProPublica
My setup is in an old garden shed I've converted to my tech studio.
I added insulation, radiant barriers, lighting, air conditioning, and have three 3d printers, a laser cutter, and a workstation for my laptop with a wide-screen monitor along 2 sides, and a workbench and tool wall on the third.
Whole conversion probably cost about 1200 in materials, and it's amazing.
3 3d printers, a laser cutter, a workstation, a wide screen monitor, and an ac for under $1200?
Just trying to figure out what exactly that $1200 covers.
I never understood the obsession with multiple screens. Isn’t it better to be obsessed with one giant screen? That way you don’t get black bars in front of you.
Edit:
I got to clarify. I’m talking about a single ultra wide screen with high resolution but also scaling so texts aren’t super small. There are gaming ones that are OLED so great color and performance. Both windows and Mac OS have software that lets you split in half or 1/3 + 2/3 (which you can’t do with two screens).
It’s ultra wide so you can look left and right and not top and bottom.
If you’re connecting a laptop, you’ll have a tiny screen for slack or a video or something.
I do agree that it’s more expensive.
- Resolution - having a big screen at the same resolution doesn't really mean much, and you usually don't really go higher than 4K for computer monitors. Yes, there are 8K TVs, but good luck being able to afford one.
- Performance - if you want to go big, you're probably thinking of TV screens, and TVs generally just aren't built for colour accuracy, low latency, or high refresh rates.
- Cost - bigger computer monitors are pricier. Besides, if you are upgrading your monitor anyways, well, your old one can just become your secondary display; it's free screen estate.
- Ergonomics - it takes less effort to look from side to side than it is to look up and down. With multiple smaller screens, you can arrange them all to face you cockpit-style; with a giant screen, the edges will look distorted unless you buy a curved display.
- Software - most OSs can snap windows to the four quadrants of each display; anything smaller or more unique, and you will have to manually resize each window.
- Practicality - if you're working, gaming, or watching a movie, you want to dedicate an entire screen to your task at hand. Having multiple monitors lets you do that while still being able to check other things on the side. For example, when I stream games, I can play while having my OBS and Twitch stats on the side; when I do any design work, I can pull up references on my secondary display. The black bars are a non-issue.
On my desk at work I have an ultra wide, a single external laptop screen to my right and a TV on the far wall on my left.
Snapping two apps right and left on the uw is fantastic on the ultra wide. Price aside, it's as good or better than having two monitors.
The TV obviously doesn't count cuz it's only there for other people or if I want to have server graphs running for show.
But the secondary monitor works really well is a semi important parking space. I usually slide slack and signal over there. That way I can see what was sent and only worry about going over to it if it's something I need to respond to. I find it kind of nice to have that logical division over there. I can hot key stuff over that monitor.
I'd say if someone has the money the UW is fantastic, But it's super useful to have a secondary monitor from a mental standpoint for me at least.
On my desk at work I have an ultra wide, a single external laptop screen to my right and a TV on the far wall on my left.
I have a TV on the side (rarely use it) and my laptop below the screen.
I do agree, it’s great having an on the side screen. My point was more about having one big main screen instead of few main screens. I used to have two identical screens side by side. I ended up just looking right most of the time so I thought one big screen was the answer.
Interesting, I have two identicals at home and tend to use them equally.
Where do you put the split, to one side or directly in front of you?
Yes, otherwise it wouldn’t fit properly and the asymmetry would bug me.
I’ve also worked in office spaces with multiple screens, it’s always put symmetrically in my experience. So you always have to have your head tilted.
Imo if you put it asymmetrically, as in one main screen in the centre, then that’s pretty much what I’m talking about, I just want a UW in the centre cause it’s a better experience.
In this post’s picture, I do like that a screen is in the centre but it’s too small imo, rather have a bigger one.
a single ultra wide screen with high resolution but also scaling so texts aren’t super small
Meaning, 3440x1440?
0/10
One out of the 3 monitors doesn't match, and none of them are OLED (or even IPS).
[news] Google Says It Appears to Have Accessed Parallel Universes
Google has made an eyebrow-raising claim, saying that its new quantum chip may be tapping into parallel universes to achieve its results.
The search giant recently unveiled a new quantum computer chip, dubbed Willow, which — on a specific benchmark, at least — the company says can outperform any supercomputer in the world.
"Willow’s performance on this benchmark is astonishing," Google Quantum AI founder Hartmut Neven wrote in a blog post announcing the chip. "It performed a computation in under five minutes that would take one of today’s fastest supercomputers 10²⁵ or 10 septillion years."
"This mind-boggling number exceeds known timescales in physics and vastly exceeds the age of the universe," he argued. "It lends credence to the notion that quantum computation occurs in many parallel universes, in line with the idea that we live in a multiverse, a prediction first made by David Deutsch."
Deutsch is a physicist who laid out his multiverse hypothesis in a 1997 book called "The Fabric of Reality," in which he suggested that quantum computers' calculations take place across multiple universes at the same time.
Put another way, Google is suggesting that its chip is so fast that its computations may have taken place across parallel universes — a bombastic statement that unsurprisingly drew plenty of skepticism online.
For one, the calculation Willow was tasked to solve wasn't really anything useful to anybody.
"The particular calculation in question is to produce a random distribution," German physicist and science communicator Sabine Hossenfelder tweeted in response to Google's announcement. "The result of this calculation has no practical use."
"They use this particular problem because it has been formally proven (with some technical caveats) that the calculation is difficult to do on a conventional computer (because it uses a lot of entanglement)," she added. "That also allows them to say things like 'this would have taken a septillion years on a conventional computer' etc."
Willow is a 100-qubit, or quantum-bit, chip. Unlike conventional computers, which use zeroes and ones for a binary system, quantum computers rely on qubits, which can be on, off, or — counterintuitively — both thanks to quantum entanglement, the mysterious phenomenon that allows particles to influence each other's states even when separated by distance.
"It's exactly the same calculation that they did in 2019 on a circa 50 qubit chip," Hossenfelder wrote.
At the time, Google made a similarly bombastic claim, arguing that it had achieved "quantum supremacy," or "the point where quantum computers can do things that classical computers can’t, regardless of whether those tasks are useful," as John Preskill, who first coined the term in 2012, wrote in a 2019 Quanta Magazine column.
That last part appears to be particularly relevant, given Google's latest claim.
"So while the announcement is super impressive from a scientific point of view and all, the consequences for everyday life are zero," Hossenfelder argued. "Estimates say that we will need about 1 million qubits for practically useful applications and we're still about 1 million qubits away from that."
The physicist also suggested that such wild claims may eventually "evaporate because some other group finds a clever way to do it on a conventional computer after all."
Google's claim of quantum supremacy drew immediate criticism in 2019, sparking a years-long feud between the company and quantum computing rival IBM. At the time, IBM researchers charged that Google had exaggerated its claims.
In a 2023 follow-up blog post, IBM researchers argued that the problem Google's quantum computer was instructed to solve in 2019 could be "performed on a classical system in 2.5 days and with far greater fidelity."
"This is in fact a conservative, worst-case estimate, and we expect that with additional refinements the classical cost of the simulation can be further reduced," the researchers wrote at the time.
In short, there's still a good reason to believe that Google's latest claim that Willow could be operating in the multiverse will be debunked. Apart from Deutsch's interpretation, researchers have also suggested that quantum particles are instead in a state of all positions before measurement, a theory known as the Copenhagen interpretation.
Where all of this leaves Google's breakthrough and its significance remains debatable.
But the company is already looking far ahead, promising to continue to scale up Willow to a point where it may actually become useful.
"This is the most convincing prototype for a scalable logical qubit built to date," Neven wrote in the announcement. "It’s a strong sign that useful, very large quantum computers can indeed be built."
It indicates that it's not Google's first time trying to overhype something, and that the actual consequences of this event - assuming that it even happened as they describe it - is minimal or none.
Yes, bullshit. Quantum Computers have no real value just yet, if ever for our needs. They are prone to errors, noise, and unsubstantiated truths. Basically you throw something in, and hope you get out what you expected.
IBM was running these things 20 years ago and bailed because it's super subjective. You don't know if what you're getting as a response has any absolute truth, or if it was an accident.
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*attempted fascist coup
Funny how that works when the antidemocratic leader is broadly in line with US foreign policy CNN choses their words very carefully.
The Surprising Effect of Stress on Your Brain’s Reward System
The Surprising Effect of Stress on Your Brain’s Reward System
UCSF scientists are uncovering the brain mechanisms behind resilience to stress and exploring new, non-invasive treatments for depression through groundbreaking research in mice.University of California San Francisco
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First, they observed brain activity while the mice were resting. Stress had changed the activity in the amygdala of the less resilient mice much more than it had in the resilient ones.When the researchers gave the mice a choice between plain and sugar-sweetened water, the resilient mice easily chose the sugar water. But the less resilient mice became obsessed and often opted for the plain water.
Xia looked at brain recordings of the mice who chose the sweet water. Their amygdala was communicating with a nearby brain region called the hippocampus that remembers and predicts.
She saw a different pattern in the mice that could not decide whether to drink the plain or sweetened water. In those mice, the conversation between the two brain areas sputtered.
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[News] A ‘Reverse Aging’ Guru’s Trail of Failed Businesses (feat. David Sinclair)
This is a rather detailed investigation by folks at WSJ into the business endeavors of David Sinclair, renowned celebrity scientist at Harvard Medical School (and kind-of a known fraudster among the field)
It's... interesting to say the least. Not strictly science-science per-se, but I hope this is informative to at least some of you. Personally as someone interested in aging research, I find it valuable to see what all the snake oil salesmen are doing so I know what not to get too mentally engaged in...
Link is de-paywalled. Original link at WSJ: wsj.com/health/wellness/david-…
A blog report by scientific misconduct sleuth Leonid Schneider, with references to a lot of other bonkers things Sinclair did: forbetterscience.com/2024/12/1…
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How to Make Your First Loops Video
For those interested in trying out #Loops, you may be wondering: what are good tools or processes for making videos?
We go into detail with some of the tools we're currently using.
You might want to try CapCut. It's by ByteDance, used by a lot of Tiktokers, and some of the better features are behind a paywall, but it's probably one of the brightest examples of an easy-to-use mobile editor for Android.
I still haven't found a whole lot of alternatives to that. There's some professional-grade multi-track editors, and some rinkydink open source apps that barely do anything. Honestly, it's kind of hard to find a good balance.
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I would not know - I still don't have an account!
It's great fun watching them on !loops@midwest.social though.
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meh. not viewable via embedded fediverse links. its just tiktok with rss.
pass
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Lukewarm take at best. It's cool if it's not for you personally, but a lot of people use it, love it, and benefit from it.
I think the stuff that Loops is building out could eventually become a standard feature that a lot of Fediverse platforms optionally offer. That kind of interop for the people that want it is frankly a win.
Social media needs testing like any other software. If you join Loops now, you're basically a beta tester.
Testing social media without users makes little sense.
There's also an argument to be made that when it is finally released properly, it's good to have some content there already.
I am a little concerned about the future of Loops and Pixelfed though. Developing things can be fun, maintaining them is a different story.
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As a reminder, ClubsAll is still showing all of Lemmy's content without federating back
A post from 2 months ago which explained the context: lemmy.world/post/20694710
I just had a look, nothing has changed, the website is still using Lemmy's content to pretend to be active
Home - ClubsAll
ClubsAll is an interactive online platform that empowers users to connect with people, engage in a wide range of discussions, and share content on a variety of topics.ClubsAll
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Just saw this and while I can't check at the moment the instances admins I've pinged might want to consider defederating from Clubsall
@snowe@programming.dev @Ategon@programming.dev @mp3@lemmy.ca @ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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Hi there, I am creator of clubsall.
There are a lot of adhoc discussions and rules. Some discussions such as this one does skip my notice too. So it has been very difficult to be fair and run a new instance.
It seems anyone trying to build a lemmy competitor is being killed. If that is the rule, lets state that and I will kill clubsall myself.
If not, can I request a discussion or at least a set of rules that we should comply to so I can save clubsall?
@snowe@programming.dev @Ategon@programming.dev @mp3@lemmy.ca @ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone
It seems anyone trying to build a lemmy competitor is being killed. If that is the rule, lets state that and I will kill clubsall myself.
Oh yes, that's probably why piefed.social/ and kbin.melroy.org/ are never praised as alternatives, nor are they fully compatible with Lemmy both ways.
(For people unaware, they are)
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In other words, I am promising to implement federation out before our instance matters.
From what I understand, Clubsall doesn't allow federation to go both ways and accept that users outside of its domain can participate freely in their communities.
Can't have it both ways of leeching the posts from other large instances while simultaneously making it an exclusive club where only local users can participate, it goes contrary to the social contract and spirit of the Fediverse.
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We are not trying to have it both ways, just need time to get there. We started with moving to sublinks library. This seems to be the best path forward, but timelines got extended after we found out that federation out is also under development there as well.
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I am the creator of Clubsall.
Please see my update above. Based on previous discussion, I was under the impression that until there is meaningful traffic, it is ok to give us time to implement federation. There were a set of rules proposed in another thread. However, seems like the rules were not finalized or not accepted or not distributed. If those rules are not acceptable, can we have a discussion first so we can agree what is fair and I have a chance to save clubsall?
Look, at a glance it looks to me like you're populating a monetised platform with content off the fediverse without attribution. That's strike one.
Then you seem to stall for time to implement federation while admitting your developer quit... and continuing the above content scraping. Strike two.
And from what I read in this thread it appears you're actively dodging defederation by using subdomains to keep scraping content. Strike three.
My concern in this is the integrity of the fediverse and its users. Yours, apparently, is "saving" a platform that leeches content off federated platforms to make a buck off those users. I don't see much chance of agreement on "what is fair".
@jwr1@kbin.earth, I stand by that request to defederate.
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When the OP was initially made, I actually did end up adding clubsall to the defed. list, but I feel like I might have done that prematurely. I took a brief look at the Clubsall website, and I couldn't really tell that there was anything inherently evil about it. Sure, the usernames and community names don't display the server they come from, but I feel like that's more of a frontend/design decision (any Lemmy frontend or app could do the same), and if you hover over the names on desktop (or click on them), you can see the URL still has the instance of the users and communities. Maybe that's a good idea for a setting that could be added, where the user can toggle whether the username or community domain is displayed or not.
Yes, there are still many improvements to be made, such as a link back to the original user on their instance would be nice, federation support needs to be worked on, and probably much more. And I will admit, the fact that they don't currently have a developer doesn't bode well in fixing some of these issues, but I feel like if we are going to block them, we should come up with some definitive reason, and have it defined in our kbin.earth rules list. If we block clubsall for being closed source and having incomplete federation, then we would need to block threads.net as well (for the same reasons). At the moment, neither of those two technically break our rules; if we were to block them, we would need to make a decision as an instance to add another rule.
The clubsall creator already made a comment in the OP stating that the open sourcing and federation issues were being worked on. I know @vinay_clubsall@lemmy.world isn't the developer, but maybe he would have some sort of explanation for the additional subdomains that are being used for federation, which appear to be used to dodge defederation (I haven't personally experienced this though). I try not to assume the worse in a situation, so I'd like to give Clubsall the benefit of the doubt. However, if it is found that they have evil intentions (such as dodging defederation), then I will definitely reblock the domain.
I appreciate the consideration you put into the matter.
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I can explain subdomains. As far as I know, my developer used some subdomains while developing (and trying to understand and make federation working), but eventually settled on api.clubsall.com (he wasnt able to get clubsall.com working).
So as of last few months, only domain being used should be api.clubsall.com. If that is not true, do bring that to my attention please.
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1. This is not monetized platform, there is no way to pay me, no advertisements, no premium plans etc. I am guessing you are saying since it is not open source yet, it is monetized. That will change, we started working on changing architecture to use sublinks, but got stuck as sublinks itself is under development.
2. As soon as sublinks federation works, we will be able to adjust quickly. Without this I have only two choices - spend a lot of money or shut it down. I would like to avoid both if possible. Since there is no traffic, I am requesting the community to give us benefit of doubt.
3. The developer used various subdomains while trying to implement federation. As far as I know, the final subdomain was api.clubsall.com. My guess is that admins are blocking clubsall.com and not api.clubsall.com. If another subdomain is still active, please let me know.
I am the creator of Clubsall. Can we have a discussion first so we can agree what is fair and I have a chance to save clubsall?
its nonreciprocal for monetary gain.
they seem to be in quite a hurry into ingest remote content while not really creating any method whatsoever to attribute that content to its source, or allow their users to interact.
Hello there, I am the creator of clubsall.
We are not in a hurry. In fact as stated, my developer has left, that has halted our development.
Also, we are a very small site with < 10 comments a month and I believe 0 posts.
So federation will hardly help everyone.
Still we want to implement federation, please read my update above.
My request is to agree on common and fair rules so we can be seen as upstanding community participants.
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originalucifer and aasatru like this.
sure. its pretty simple... dont put out a product that cannot participate fully. there are many unfinished platforms, but they dont scrape the fediverse content because, ya know, theyre unfinished.
as soon as you get full federation implemented (or even basic linkbacks to the original content), youre welcome to let everyone know so they stop blocking your scraping mechanism.
until then your unfinished product will likely be blocked.
haverholm likes this.
Thanks for this.
My worry is that other admins have different set of rules. Someone said clubsall should be open sourced, someone said clubsall should be self hostable, another person said, it should attribute posts and have canonical links. Unfortunately the admins do not seem to have common agreed set of rules that are fair. So no matter what we do, it seems we will be blocked. Can we have a viable alternative?
There was a discussion about having a common set of rules which had proposal which is different than yours.
So I am requesting some breathing room exception based on traffic, so we can survive until we can develop more or there is a common set of rules agreed to. Would that be fair?
i would say youre running before you can walk.
you have an unfinished product, and you say youre in no hurry.. then why do you insist on scraping the fediverse?
finish your product, or dont. if you cant, there are plenty of open source platforms you could implement today. but youre not. why not?
if you insist on building a new wheel, finish it already or stop asking why people dont want to interact with you.
im tellin ya. make a product that participates and attributes the content back to its source, or dont bother. those are your options.
as it is you are monetizing other sites content with no attribution.
haverholm likes this.
1 Can you explain how do you see us monetizing?
2. For attribution, currently you can see which user made the post. Should I display the server name on the sidebar?
i generally only block for spam or technical/legal reasons.
blocked for technical reason: scraper.
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Fitik likes this.
Hello Blaze,
One request, whenever you post about clubsall, can you please tag me so I can also participate? Thank you.
As for this discussion, when we had a discussion last time on reddit, I thought we agreed that as long as there is not meaningful traffic, it should be ok. I guess you were not fully onboard with this.
My request with all admins is - can we agree on some rules. If we block all new sites on hunch or rules as we make up, it will kill anyone trying to do something new.
There was another thread (that I cannot find now) where some rules were proposed. (If someone can find, please reply to this).
There are 2 things being discussed
1. federating out
2. open sourcing clubsall
I can give an update on both of these. As I mentioned previously, someone was helping me in doing some audit, implementing federation and then we could also open source.
We were going to use "sublinks", which would do a number of upgrades. So that seems the right choice moving forward. It will allow self hosting, federation, move to postgres, move to docker etc.
However during implementation we found that sublinks itself does not implement federation out. So we were blocked by that. I checked with developer just few days ago and I was told that since all developers are volunteers and they got busy, federation was delayed. The work will pickup again in new year.
I am not sure when they will be able to finish federation. I can quickly move there once done. However that seems months away.
In the meantime, can we have a discussion about a set of rules for clarification and fairness?
aasatru likes this.
One request, whenever you post about clubsall, can you please tag me so I can also participate? Thank you.
Sure, I'll make sure to keep you tagged. I was not sure you were using your Lemmy account, so that's why I did not tag you in this post.
as long as there is not meaningful traffic, it should be ok
You are channeling the traffic from 44k monthly active users to your website without giving credit to the instances where the content is created.
I just checked, the homepage of Clubsall shows content from !196@lemmy.blahaj.zone, while lemmy.blahaj.zone have you defederated: lemmy.blahaj.zone/instances, as "clubsall.com" is in the blocked instances.
But if we look at the linked instances, there is now "api.clubsall.com" and "clubsall-api4.renchesterjramos.workers.dev"
If we block all new sites on hunch or rules as we make up, it will kill anyone trying to do something new.
Everyone here is trying to make a new platform. Every Lemmy server, as well as Mbin or Piefed, federate content both ways, and allow to go to the original posts from the federated copies.
In the meantime, can we have a discussion about a set of rules for clarification and fairness?
Every admin make their own rules. Feel free to convince them, a few of them are in this thread.
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haverholm likes this.
I just checked, the homepage of Clubsall shows content from !196@lemmy.blahaj.zone, while lemmy.blahaj.zone have you defederated: lemmy.blahaj.zone/instances, as “clubsall.com” is in the blocked instances. But if we look at the linked instances, there is now “api.clubsall.com” and “clubsall-api4.renchesterjramos.workers.dev”
This is because federation is fairly complex and we are new to this and do not fully understand. I really do not know why we are getting content from lemmy.blahaj.zone when they have blocked us. The content is coming from federation, so how is it being pushed to clubsall after blocking?
You are channeling the traffic from 44k monthly active users to your website without giving credit to the instances where the content is created.
In our last discussion, you said "your site is small, so people just ignore it. Should it become more active, then users are probably going to call their admins to defederate." ClubsAll has not grown.
This time you are saying we are not attributing. It seems even you change mind on to what is fair.
My request stays the same, give us some breathing room until some traffic threshold. Is that fair?
The content is coming from federation, so how is it being pushed to clubsall after blocking?
I blocked your instance based on your domain. But because you are using other domains to pull the content, you're still receiving content from the domains you use that I haven't blocked.
My request stays the same, give us some breathing room until some traffic threshold. Is that fair?
What is your plan for what clubsall will look like? I have no interest in killing a new and interesting platform for building community in the lemmy space. But if you're just going to pull content from lemmy instances without giving anything back, that's not building community...
Tell me you've got plans for something other than a content scraper, and I'll happily work with you.
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haverholm likes this.
Thank you for responding. Here are my plans
- After some discussion with another fediverse developer, he recommended we move to sublinks library. I posted our tech plans here lemmy.world/comment/12922172. This will achieve a number of things - move db to postgres, deployment to docker/k8s, enable lemmy clients, make some security changes so our passwords are not exposed, this in turn will enable open sourcing and self hosting. This seems the best path forward.
- We almost completed the move when we found out that sublinks library itself does not have federation implemented. I was told it will be picked up in 2025 but it is also being developer by volunteers, so the timeline is not certain. Since we almost finished move to sublinks, as soon as they have federation, we should be able to move very quickly since work on our side is mostly done.
There is almost no traffic today, users are not missing out on any content. Since the timelines are not in my hands, my ask is for admins to give me benefit of doubt and be patient until I wait for sublinks federation implementation (or if clubsall have traffic in which case, users will be missing out on content. In that case, I will have to think of something else)
- In the long run, idea is to have an simplified fediverse frontend that can realistically be a real open alternative to reddit.
Feel free to ask me anything else.
sublinks library.
Do you mean this? github.com/sublinks
There is almost no traffic today, users are not missing out on any content.
If there is almost no traffic today, why do you complain about being defederated?
I mean this library github.com/sublinks/sublinks-a…
We have a handful of users. Their comments are being federated. They are not making any posts (because without federation there are no replies). Defederation will mean users cannot even comment and will have to abandon ClubsAll. A site being abandoned at this early stage usually means death of site, which I would like to avoid if possible.
github.com/sublinks/sublinks-a…
Are you aware that most of the activity on Sublinks has stopped, with 1 change in November, and the other most recent ones from October? github.com/sublinks/sublinks-a…
As I mentioned in another comment, why did you not fork a project like codeberg.org/rimu/pyfedi which is still being actively developed?
We have a handful of users.
How many do you have at this moment? 10, 25, 50?
Yes I am aware, that is why our progress has stopped. I was told they will pickup again in new year.
I just did not know about pyfedi, I will look into it.
We have about 10 users in last month.
I was told they will pickup again in new year.
I don't know where you got that information, but the whole project just seems stopped at the moment. Development resuming in January would be surprising.
We have about 10 users in last month.
Good to know, thanks. Honestly, for 10 users, you should probably just host a standard Piefed instance, and that would probably be more than enough for your users.
Let me give you my opinion, specifically as a React developer, if you don't mind.
And let's be clear: I intend this to be a constructive criticism. I hope you understand and don't take it the wrong way.
To be honest, I don't know how good or bad federating one-way is. This is more of a "people" problem rather than a technical problem.
But, to be honest, what I am bothered by, is the fact that the website doesn't give an attribution in the UI about which instance certain users are from and which instance certain certain community are from.
Take a look at this post: clubsall.com/posts/theyre-tryi…
The UI says that the post was posted by u[slash]BytesOnBikes. If I didn't know better, I'd have assumed this was from a user from clubsall. But if you click the username, you realize that the link says u[slash]BytesOnBikes[at]slrpnk.net. I think this would be confusing as a user. What if there is the same user under the username BytesOnBikes from clubsall? At least if you include the instance name, user would know right away that both users are different. But if you didn't include the instance name, I feel like this can be abused to impersonate user. This is a bad thing to happen to your website, don't you agree?
Now that we both understand that lack of attribution is a bad thing to clubsall... What's stopping you from adding an instance name to the username? I'm sure the app has a way to know which instance certain users are from. From what I gather, I feel like this is as easy as appending a string in the code.
I haven't even talked about the community name on the UI. Or the ethicality of misleading attribution.
Yes this is easy to implement. While I do not fully agree because impersonation can still be done by using username Bytes0nBikes. I feel showing instance names adds complexity for the user and it does not fully address impersonation anyways.
But then again, even though I disagree, many people mentioned that lack of attribution bothers them. So I should take feedback and get this done. I hope this is what everyone meant and they will accept this as a solution.
This is rather easier to implement. I should be able to get this done rather quickly. I will try to do this before end of Dec.
Den vedervärdige HVB-chefen. ETC har publicerat ett bra reportage om en man som först arbetade på ett SIS-hem och misskötte det på det allra grövsta sätt. Han fick sluta men fick då istället anställning på ett privat HVB-hem där han fortsatte med sin tradition av att allvarligt missköta verksamheten.
Alice
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •like this
originalucifer and Fitik like this.
P4ulin_Kbana
in reply to Alice • • •secret300
in reply to Alice • • •Oh shit I haven't seen anything from hilariouschaos in forever even tho I sort by new and new comments all the time.
I thought the instance died. Good to see y'all still here
Alice
in reply to secret300 • • •Rogue
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •It would be more useful to see metrics weighted per active user it's trivial to update a server if it's just for yourself, and likewise it's easy to let it lag a few versions behind.
What's more relevant is the version number the large instances are running
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Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Rogue • • •You can filter fedidb.org/software/lemmy by monthly active users.
Note: 0.19.6 and 0.19.7 had an issue with pictures thumbnails, which is why quite a few instances kept running 0.19.5
The elephant in the room is obviously LW which hosts around a third of the monthly active users but still run 0.19.3
A month ago someone asked about this on !support@lemmy.world, for people interested: lemmy.world/post/22173840
Edit: added hexbear, discuss.tchncs.de and infosec.pub which just updated
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MrKaplan
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to MrKaplan • • •Alphane Moon
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Alphane Moon • • •Wiz
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •AwesomeLowlander
in reply to Wiz • • •Alphane Moon
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Alphane Moon • • •mesamune
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to mesamune • • •- people are changing instances
- some instances shut down
- some farmbots were open
mesamune
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •My theory is that there is quite a few servers that are chosing to defederate. The number of total servers continues to drop according to fedidb.
So while total users go up, the global federation is staying around the same. There's quite a few servers that don't want to be connected to everyone else.
GamingChairModel
in reply to mesamune • • •Or admins are just finding it not worth bothering with administering their own server and turning them off.
mesamune
in reply to GamingChairModel • • •hendrik
in reply to mesamune • • •Valmond
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •iso
in reply to Valmond • • •like this
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Blaze (he/him)
in reply to iso • • •People who were there for 0.19.4 remember 😅
But this one seems quite stable, it is a fix for 0.19.7, so hopefully no bug
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Fitik likes this.
Valmond
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Ya, my whole server was in a bad mood after 19.4.
I'm on 19.5 which one should I go with (I mean if 19.6 had problems there is maybe a 19.6.1 right?)?
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Valmond • • •Valmond
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Valmond • • •Valmond
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Yes that's the theory 😊 but I heard icons or something doesn't work well on 19.7...
Do they do backports?
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Valmond • • •There used to be an issue on thumbnails for some instances
- lemmy.cafe/?dataType=Post&list…
vs
- sopuli.xyz/?dataType=Post&list…
But on the other hand, some instances on 0.19.7 were doing fine:
- lemm.ee/?dataType=Post&listing…
Not sure about backports
Valmond
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Valmond • • •kratoz29
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to kratoz29 • • •Skelectus
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •BlueÆther
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •OpenStars
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to OpenStars • • •ipkpjersi
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to ipkpjersi • • •