fiske.zaramis.se/2026/01/29/st…
Studie av historiskt fiske bekräftar känd kunskap - Svenssons Nyheter - Njord
Studie av historiskt fiske bekräftar känd kunskap. En ny vetenskaplig artikel analyserar fiskets historia i Stockholms skärgård. FörfattarnaAnders Svensson (Svenssons Nyheter - Njord)
Using dash or ksh as default shell
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I went down this rabbit hole.
The only way I could make it work was using the alternative frontend for my instance: old.feddit.org
There, log in was possible without issues. But I don't know if lemmy.ml has alternative frontends.
I had tried all CLI browsers, browsh, and Neon Modem Overdrive. (which seemed to work for people on other instances, but not on feddit.org . Edit: The issue I was having with it seems to be fixed now.)
GitHub - browsh-org/browsh: A fully-modern text-based browser, rendering to TTY and browsers
A fully-modern text-based browser, rendering to TTY and browsers - browsh-org/browshGitHub
GitHub - rystaf/mlmym: a familiar desktop experience for lemmy
a familiar desktop experience for lemmy. Contribute to rystaf/mlmym development by creating an account on GitHub.GitHub
!links2@lemmy.sdf.org
Thats awesome.
Btw piefed has "low bandwidth mode" that works well with links2. I wonder if old.lemmy would work well with links2?
$ git clone https://github.com/grassmunk/Platinum9 ~/.themes/Platinum9Then set the Window Decoration theme using xfce4 settings
GitHub - grassmunk/Platinum9: Mac OS 9 Theme for Xubuntu
Mac OS 9 Theme for Xubuntu. Contribute to grassmunk/Platinum9 development by creating an account on GitHub.GitHub
Canada needs consistent, transparent EV charging pricing: report
Canada needs consistent, transparent EV charging pricing: report
Pollution Probe and Mobility Futures Lab data highlight frustrating differences in billing, costs and experience across the countryNeil Vorano (Electric Autonomy Canada)
Tesla's 'unsupervised' Robotaxis vanish a week after pre-earnings announcement
Tesla’s ‘unsupervised’ Robotaxis vanish a week after pre-earnings announcement
A week ago, Elon Musk announced that Tesla had started Robotaxi rides in Austin “with no safety monitor in the...Fred Lambert (Electrek)
Which one are you?
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Proud member of #3 gang here, although I don't really give a shit about distro wars. But if you're talking about a problem with Windows you can be pretty sure I'll say you could avoid that with Linux.
Being labeled "annoying" often means you're completely correct and the person you're talking to knows it but has some cognitive dissonance to work through. You see it with linux, socialism, veganism, etc. People don't get nearly as annoyed by opinions they sincerely disagree with as by opinions they can't find a good reason to disagree with (but want to anyway)
Non, I use Linux purely at home. Have no way to use it in the heavily regulated world I work which is very corporate and very locked down windows where I cant even access CMD or pin things to the taskbar.
But at home I run Debian and raspberry pi os on my 2 servers, and arch Linux on my desktop, and Debian with retropie and cinnamon on my laptop.
I have no interest in distro wars, no distro is better than any other, they just all cater to different subset of people and users. I don't even believe Linux is superior to any other os. I love Linux, and it is perfect for me, but I would never advise my wife to try it, as it offers nothing she would benefit from over her current use of windows.
And I develop and maintain a package in the aur, but it is minimal, and I have published on GitHub a couple of apps, but I would not describe myself as a developer or maintainer, as they are just tiny personal fun projects.
And finally I am a huge proponent of foss and anti big tech where I can be. I believe I currently have all the benefit of the android ecosystem without using it at all. As in everything is backed up and synced to the cloud, but I own my cloud. Everything except Lemmy and email I self host. Calender, contacts, files, photos, music, DNS, search, pdf editor, notes... That's all I can think of for now.
Usually a 2 since I never really talk about it outside of here.
I think the only times I've talked about it with others is venting about my problems or what I'm trying to accomplish to my mom or when my dad switched to dual booting Mint on his laptop that thankfully doesn't support win11.
I'm usually not big on being a consistent fandom interactor type of person in general, so yeah.
Anyone with an Android device is level 1 by default.
I guess being in this community puts me at least at level 3 by definition. I contributed a package to GNU Guix but I'm not quite a "maintainer" or even a regular contributor to it yet. Maybe I can claim level 5 just by virtue of having contributed to an "advanced" distro.
In "the real world" my mild-mannered alter ego would be level 4 because I use GNU/Linux at my day job.
This Sunday 1 February Bake Sale for Palestine 🇵🇸 Paris is hosted by our kind friends @combo_cafe_records
Thank you for your support in standing for Palestine 🇵🇸
Our resilient community grows stronger and larger every day that passes. Let’s continue talking about and supporting Palestine 🇵🇸
Our incredible team of volunteers will be there from 11h - 16h with delicious sweet and savoury treats, coffee, tea, hand crafted jewelry, Palestinian products such as traditional ceramics, olive oil, zaatar, soaps, Keffiyehs and more 🇵🇸
This genocide is a world wide catastrophe because the occupation won’t and hasn’t stopped at Gaza, the West Bank or Palestine. They have been testing their limits there for decades and eventually they will take over the planet. Look at what is happening all over the world…
We must continue to stand and fight for Palestine, it is the core of humanity 🤍
Thank you dearest Clara for this beautiful poster 🩷
FUCK COLONIALISM
FUCK THE OCCUPATION
FUCK THE COMPLICIT
FUCK FASCISM
Rubio: No End to Cuba Sanctions Without Regime Change
[from the news/video collective Belly Of The Beast]
U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio has acknowledged what U.S. policy toward Cuba has required for decades: the embargo will not be lifted without regime change.Speaking during a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on U.S. policy toward Venezuela, Rubio went further than past administrations, stating plainly that the United States would “love to see” a change of government in Cuba and that such an outcome would benefit U.S. interests.
Pressed by Senator Brian Schatz, Rubio clarified that this is not just rhetorical preference. The U.S. embargo, he said, is codified in law under the Helms-Burton Act and explicitly conditions its removal on political change in Havana.
The exchange strips away years of ambiguity surrounding U.S.-Cuba policy. It confirms that sanctions are not tied to specific reforms or negotiations, but to a long-standing strategy of pressure and coercion aimed at reshaping Cuba’s political system.
Rubio: No End to Cuba Sanctions Without Regime Change
U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio has acknowledged what U.S. policy toward Cuba has required for decades: the embargo will not be lifted without regime change. Speaking during a Senate Foreign Re...PeerTube.world
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Rubio: No End to Cuba Sanctions Without Regime Change
cross-posted from: lemmy.ml/post/42382800
[from the news/video collective Belly Of The Beast]
U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio has acknowledged what U.S. policy toward Cuba has required for decades: the embargo will not be lifted without regime change.Speaking during a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on U.S. policy toward Venezuela, Rubio went further than past administrations, stating plainly that the United States would “love to see” a change of government in Cuba and that such an outcome would benefit U.S. interests.
Pressed by Senator Brian Schatz, Rubio clarified that this is not just rhetorical preference. The U.S. embargo, he said, is codified in law under the Helms-Burton Act and explicitly conditions its removal on political change in Havana.
The exchange strips away years of ambiguity surrounding U.S.-Cuba policy. It confirms that sanctions are not tied to specific reforms or negotiations, but to a long-standing strategy of pressure and coercion aimed at reshaping Cuba’s political system.
Rubio: No End to Cuba Sanctions Without Regime Change
[from the news/video collective Belly Of The Beast]U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio has acknowledged what U.S. policy toward Cuba has required for decades: the embargo will not be lifted without regime change.Speaking during a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on U.S. policy toward Venezuela, Rubio went further than past administrations, stating plainly that the United States would “love to see” a change of government in Cuba and that such an outcome would benefit U.S. interests.
Pressed by Senator Brian Schatz, Rubio clarified that this is not just rhetorical preference. The U.S. embargo, he said, is codified in law under the Helms-Burton Act and explicitly conditions its removal on political change in Havana.
The exchange strips away years of ambiguity surrounding U.S.-Cuba policy. It confirms that sanctions are not tied to specific reforms or negotiations, but to a long-standing strategy of pressure and coercion aimed at reshaping Cuba’s political system.
Rubio: No End to Cuba Sanctions Without Regime Change
U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio has acknowledged what U.S. policy toward Cuba has required for decades: the embargo will not be lifted without regime change. Speaking during a Senate Foreign Re...PeerTube.world
Opération charme d’un constructeur sud-coréen pour le contrat des sous-marins canadiens
My KDE Neon becomes unresponsive almost daily
Hi guys! I have a rather beefy machine. AMD Ryzen 7700, 32GB DDR5, GPU 7800XT 16GB, several NVME drives for OS, general data, games.
And yet...after a while it becomes completely unresponsive. Mouse freezes, keyboard doesn't key anything, and the screen gets completely frozen. Meanwhile the disk led gets full activity, almost constantly red.
So...While this might be crazy pagination turning the system to a crawl (I have an 8GB swapfile), I want to be able to determine what's going on. Is there a way I can check any log, or enable any kind of logging that would tell me what happened on the seconds before it became completely unresponsive? Who takes all my memory??
Normal situations where this happens:
Firefox open, multiple windows, lots of tabs. Maybe ~5-8GB of RAM.
Virtmanager running a Windows VM, running a work remote desktop...4GB of RAM
Steam...1GB of RAM
Thunderbird, Deluge, Telegram, Whatsapp...Not much more really.
This shouldn't even come close to the RAM capacity of this machine. And yet...it really looks like it suffocates without memory. How can I check for issues?
smartctl would be what your looking for even for ssds (although ssds fail quick enough that if smartctl catches something there's a chance it's already too late, smartd allows for scheduled tests and I've definitely saved data off of ssds because I had daily smart tests running that caught early failure).
I however strongly disagree with the hardware issue. there is no indication that this is hardware (honestly hardware accounts for VERY few issues like this, and RAM failing still happens but is 98% a thing of the past). diagnosing without any logs is a bit of a lost cause, we simply don't have enough info, hopefully OP updates the post with the output of journalctl from the last boot.
dead ram definitely still happens, yes, but it's exceedingly rare. I fix hundreds of PCs a year, and I maybe get one or two a year where the root cause is actually bad ram. more often it's configuration issues or hardware implementation issues, for example the gigabyte x870 boards really don't like XMP for some reason.
ecc doesn't really have anything to do with whether a ram stick fails or not, it can help with misbehaving sticks but if a stick is dead it's dead and ecc can't help a dead region.
If your DE/Launcher uses systemd scopes properly you might be able to see something in the journal. As an example somewhere in my logs I can see this:
Jan 17 17:52:50 sky systemd[2171]: app-niri-steam-40213.scope: Failed with result 'oom-kill'.
Jan 17 17:52:50 sky systemd[2171]: app-niri-steam-40213.scope: Consumed 6h 32min 39.773s CPU time, 9.4G memory peak, 6.2G memory swap peak.That's pretty clearly severe thrashing and an eventual OOM event caused by a game. If you're not familiar, the command
journalctl -e -b -1 gives you the last log lines from the last boot. Use d and u to navigate the pager and q to quit. This will only work if the launcher you are using sets up transient systemd scopes and doesn't just fork-exec into the application (Fuzzel does the wrong thing by default, as do many others).I've also seen large Steam downloads causing such issues, so capping your download speed might help. As could enabling ZRAM.
Edit: Also, this is most likely completely unrelated but do note that Neon is basically abandoned. You should very much consider switching to a maintained distribution, whether that's another Ubuntu spin or Fedora or something else entirely.
Thanks for the journalctl command, I think I was looking for hints like this. I'll be reviewing my journalctl next time I get a crash.
Regarding Steam, since it's using NVME both for the OS and the gaming disk, it downloads at rather crazy speeds without slowing down the OS (as long as I'm not trying additionally something else also crazy of course...but I can continue browsing and watching videos just fine).
Also, this is most likely completely unrelated but do note that Neon is basically abandoned. You should very much consider switching to a maintained distribution, whether that’s another Ubuntu spin or Fedora or something else entirely.
Thanks! Yeah I might reconsider a whole system wipe. I've tried shortly Fedora before, and Nobara for a few years, but I think I'd prefer something Ubuntu-based with KDE. Something that it's not Kubuntu, that is. I don't want snap crap.
It may not be the raw RAM usage.
My first suspect is the Windows VM especially if it's running enterprise security software 4GB is probably not enough for modem Windows and it could be trying to use its page file, thrashing your disk in the process.
Are you able to collect some data from system monitor on paging and disk activity? That could help you narrow it down. You can use btop for a quick terminal option if your gui is non responsive (assuming your could switch to a console). Vmstat is another option that you can run in the background to collect stats over time, but it's not user friendly.
I see. My concern was with security scanning tools often put on computers by enterprise IT departments but it sounds like that's not the case here.
In your situation, assuming you're not finding what you seek with journalctl, I think I would use a tool like vmstat or sar to collect periodic snapshots of CPU, memory, and io. You can tell it to collect data every X seconds and tee that to a file. After you reboot you can see what happened leading up to the crash. You should be able to import the data into a spreadsheet or something for analysis, but it's not very intuitive and you'll need to consult man pages for the options and how to interpret them.
There are a lot of good suggestions in this thread. I would lean towards a hardware or driver issue, maybe bad RAM. Unfortunately these things take a lot of trial and error to figure out.
Neon doesn’t force you to actually update the ubuntu it’s built on unless you manually do it iirc. Update your shit and report back.
Once you decide not to try that, top, btop atop or htop can tell you the amount of ram you’re using. They will all also tell you how your disk writes are doing.
It doesn’t sound like you have a ram issue, it sounds like you have a disk issue. First and foremost, once you’ve verified that you have plenty of memory available using a tool described above, expand your windows vm to 8gb. Windows would aggressively page if it had only 4gb and windows in a vm will also aggressively page when it only has 4gb, except it has to go through kvm to access those qcows.
It sounds like you have way too many tabs open. Close some and see if that helps you out. You can highlight a bunch of them by selecting one and ctrl-shift clicking on another one to get every tab in between. Right click and add to bookmarks then close them.
Next, use spinrite with I think a level 3 scan on all your nvme drives. It shaves a write cycle off the top (you have hundreds of thousands at the very least) but in return makes everything fast again. Flash memory becomes less responsive as read cycles on a block pile up until it’s rewritten.
It might not be that to so maybe run "journalctl -b -1" the next boot after your system freezes and check towards the bottom of the log to see if there are any errors, usually red.
Another way is to use btop running in the background and when the system gives any sign that it'll freeze switch to btop and check what's going on.
Edit: something that came to me is to try to switch to another tty using Ctrl+alt+number, I'm not sure how neon works so try 2 or 3 or 4.
you're nowhere close to RAM exhaustion. I had similar mishaps on an all-AMD system a few gens back and it manifested itself as micro-stutters that occasionally grew to such manifestations. I think I remember it was fixed via a combination of kernel switches and progressively better performance as new versions of kernel and modules/drivers progressed.
no idea what KDE Neon is based on (Ubuntu LTS?), but I'm guessing you rock pretty old kernels and relatively modern hardware, which is a pain. also you don't need a swapfile, use zram. or just switch to fedora or sumsuch that takes care of all them things for you.
Has anyone tried out SteamOS?
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at the end of the day, steamos is still linux which runs steam, just (AFAIK, and on steamdeck) immutable, which is probably not something you want on desktop (or you do, I'm not here to tell you how to computer).
Just the default steam/valve vendor decorations don't make games run any better, imo.
I'd just keep to a regular distro for a general use pc.
edit: but, yea, I've seen people run eg. video editors etc on steamdeck, so it does work as a regular pc too, if you really want to.
The gamescope micro compositor does make games run better. You can obviously run that on others distros as well, but on SteamOS it's out-of-the-box.
Is SteamOS immutable though? I thought that was just Bazzite.
Is SteamOS immutable though? I thought that was just Bazzite.
I don't know of the version that'll be available (when ever that happens), but on steamdeck it is.
ref. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SteamOS#… (yea yea wikipedia and lack of citations..)
Version 3.0 still utilizes an immutable file system
You want to install SteamOS on your desktop PC? Because thats not officially supported. You can still do it, but you might get unlucky with hardware compatibility. Its primarily intended for use with custom hardware like handhelds or for dedicated gaming machines that you would put in your living room.
If you just want a desktop OS that can be used for productivity, but also goes well with gaming, i would choose something else.
Popular choices are CachyOS or Bazzite if you want to have very up to date software, but personally im just running good old debian even if it does not have the absolute latest drivers.
Unless something is badly configured, there shouldnt be a major difference between any of these distros game performance wise, so its more about what you like in terms of UX and UI.
And heck, I'm on Ubuntu and have no problems. I played BGIII and Cyberpunk 2077, full graphics,no glitches. Currently back on Skyrim with a couple hundred mods using Vortex.
Any Linux distro with Protontricks should be fine.
I’ll echo this, minus the Skyrim part because it’s been years since I touched it. Also, I’m on Debian, not Ubuntu. BGIII, Cyberpunk, Horizon Zero Dawn/Forbidden West, Satisfactory, Doom 2016/Eternal, Diablo III when I’m in a particularly self-loathing mood…anything I throw at it, it’s handled. Haven’t played a single game on Windows in at least 3 years.
Also runs DaVinci Resolve Studio like a beast. That includes peripherals like the Speed Editor and Micro Color Panel, as well as the Blackmagic Intensity 4k capture card in a Thunderbolt enclosure. For my use case, there’s nothing Windows does that Debian can’t, apart from the whole “I paid like $200 for a license for this OS so the can serve me ads and spy on me all the time” thing.
bazzite is probably the better choice.
you can most likely get all of the same benefits from your existing install, though. just need the right configuration.
you can most likely get all of the same benefits from your existing install,
You can't get Gamescope, which really makes all the difference in the world, especially in couch/controller gaming.
I installed game scope on my Fedora install.
FSR crashes sometimes, so I disabled that. The only real issue OSS that if you use game scope the steam big picture exit menu gets replaced with the steam deck options only, so I had to create a separate “game” to send a kill signal to gamescope.
docs.bazzite.gg/Handheld_and_H…
Bazzite utilizes Steam Gaming Mode by forking ChimeraOS’s gamescope-session and modifying it to fit the needs of our operating system.Steam Gaming Mode Images - Bazzite Documentation
Bazzite is a custom image built upon Fedora Atomic Desktops that brings the best of Linux gaming to all of your devices.docs.bazzite.gg
Lol I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant that gamescope would be difficult to get working under Bazzite's immutable architecture.
You do realize gamescope is just a package you can install, right? Do you think it's a unique feature of SteamOS or what?
GitHub - ValveSoftware/gamescope: SteamOS session compositing window manager
SteamOS session compositing window manager. Contribute to ValveSoftware/gamescope development by creating an account on GitHub.GitHub
SteamOS isn't really avaliable 😅 they said they were gonna do it, but they never did.
Bazzite is basically steamOS for normal pcs- but I would try something like endevaros or other arch distros if u wanna aim for steam.
SteamOS is arch based.
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SteamOS isn't really avaliable
It is available. Always has been. It's just a matter of whether it will work on your machine.
^
For those looking to take the leap:
store.steampowered.com/steamos…
Write image to USB, Boot to USB, press install from inside the live environment.
If you're using AMD hardware you will have better luck, but it is not guaranteed to work.
gurl what?
SteamOS is made for spesific hardware. hell a couple of years ago you had to try to trick it to even install on smth outside of steamdeck.
You said it isn’t available but it is. So you should edit your comment to not spread misinformation or clarify with a qualifier about hardware.
It's "available" in that you can get the ISO to re-install SteamOS on your Steam Deck in case you decided to try running Windows or your install got corrupted.
SteamOS as it is right now only works on an all-AMD setup, and there's still issues with it if it's installed on anything but the 3 devices that are officially supported at the moment
"Compatible" is not the word to use here. If you have Intel or Nvidia hardware you're going to have tons of issues. Especially with Nvidia graphics cards where you generally don't get a display at all.
Hell, I have an all-AMD system and I would likely have issues as well, since SteamOS doesn't support GPU's newer the the RX7000 series, and I have an RX9070XT.
If you're going to insist on putting a label on the SteamOS install file, it's "unofficially available for technical support". Anything suggesting more than that is dishonest
Is SteamOS even available for desktop PCs yet? I don't think it is.
From the SteamOS page:
We expect most SteamOS users to get SteamOS preinstalled on a Steam Deck or device that incorporates SteamOS. The only devices officially supported on SteamOS right now are Steam Deck and Legion Go S. We are working on broadening support, and with the recent updates to Steam and SteamOS, compatibility with other AMD powered PC handhelds has been improved.
Until this changes, which I think is in the works, I recommend using some other popular distro.
SteamOS
SteamOS is Valve’s Linux-based operating system. It features a seamless user experience optimized for gaming, while retaining access to the power and flexibility of a PC, and plays tens of thousands of games on Steam.store.steampowered.com
I also heard Valve say “it’s just a PC”, does that mean it’s suitable for software development too?
Yes, I used my Steam Deck for software development briefly. But don't use the flatpak versions of the IDEs, use the tarballs instead. The flatpak sandbox will cause weird issues when the IDE is trying to access resources outside its sandbox. Also keep everything -as much as possible- in your home directory as intended by SteamOS, don't try to unlock the read-only filesystem, even though you can, you will lose everything when SteamOS updates.
It's optimized for gaming and you can install a lot of standard Linux apps. But it only works on specific hardware like the Deck and Legion at the moment, the Frame and Machine should be running their versions. A lot of things that come in a standard Distro for PCs have been removed that you might take for granted. I like to think of it as a balance between PC and game console, remember when you could side load Linux onto a PS3, sort of like that.
I use my Deck in desktop mode and connect it to my TV for web browsing, Steamlink to my tower and occasionally use the Libre apps, but I wouldn't recommend using it as your daily PC. It doesn't exactly feel like a fully fleshed out PC, hard to put a finger on it until you use it.
Most of my games run fine on Linux Mint, but not all of them.
You're not changing much when you're changing distros, you may have slightly newer or older packages but we're all running essentially the same Linux Kernel, Proton versions, etc.
You'd probably have less of a headache by trying to diagnose the games that don't work than swapping OSs blindly and hoping that works.
If you were to swap, I'd look at something Arch-based. This way you'll have access to the newest versions of everything (for good or ill).
You're not changing much when you're changing distros
This needs to be a pinned comment on every distro-hopping post.
SteamOS is arch based... As a note.
CachyOS is literally what people seem to think steamOS is. Bonus points it's not atomic.
I am relatively new to Linux and first tried to go with Linux Mint, because it was advertised as user friendly and good all around. But games, especially eldenring, did not run well and with a lot of stutter.
I was kind of disappointed and switched to nobara. Now i am really happy with the experience, everything runs perfectly and without much problems.
Any idea what could cause this, if evey distro is the same?
As far as I could tell, I updated everything on mint to the latest available version and the GPU (7900 gre) was also correctly identified. Would be interesting what i could have changed to make it work.
We can't know for sure, but if I had to make some guesses:
It could have been something as simple as Nobara using GE-Proton instead of just defaulting to Steam's proton. You could do the same thing on Mint, just by either manually downloading the zip from Github and extracting into Steam's compatibilitytools.d/ directory (or, as most people do, use protonup-qt to install/manage proton versions).
Also, Mint uses a different Desktop Environment than Nobara. Mint has a custom DE called Cinnamon while Nobara uses the most popular DE, KDE Plasma. So there could be differences in how Cinnamon and Plasma implement Wayland that were causing hitching.
The Kernel also was recently(-ish) updated to include NTSYNC primitives which makes Wine's not-emulation a bit smoother in some games. Different distros update their kernels at different times (I don't know how nobara and mint do this, one could be behind the other)
I'm glad it worked for you, it's frustrating to have to deal with poor performance and sometimes just rolling the dice on another distro will fix everything (and also, swapping distros when you're learning is great experience!). Learning the process of tracking down problems will serve you better in the long run, even if it is frustrating. If you get lost or don't know where to start, make a post in this community, no question is too dumb. At worst, some people will be assholes because it's social media in 2026 but you'll usually find someone to get you pointed in the right direction at least.
GitHub - GloriousEggroll/proton-ge-custom: Compatibility tool for Steam Play based on Wine and additional components
Compatibility tool for Steam Play based on Wine and additional components - GloriousEggroll/proton-ge-customGitHub
Thanks for the detailed reply. I will try to follow your advice the next time, I run into problems.
I thought it might be a bigger problem with mint, because eldenring is not a new game and i also found posts of people running it on Linux without any problems about 3 years ago. So I figured it should run well with the state of the art version of things without having to update to any special new versions.
You mentioned distro swapping. So far I deleted all partition when installing a new distribution. (Happened only once, and i did not setup a lot before the new install) Can i just switch the distro without having to redownload every game as long as i do have them on another partition or are they kind of dependent on the used distribution?
You can keep your steam library across distros. Games are usually Windows executables, which run through WINE so they're completely independent of the distro.
A common recommendation is to make a partition for your home directory and another for your system directory (they can be on different disks too if that's easier). That way, if you decide to try a different distro then you will still have all of your data/games/settings/etc. If you do this, then everything will move between distros because you only need to overwrite the information on the system partition.
If you just want to keep the Steam stuff, it is typically in ~/.local/share/steam (~/ means your home directory, if you didn't know). If you move it into that same location on your new distro then Steam will see all of your installed games.
I somehow struggle a little to understand the role of distribution. When researching how to install Linux, it seemed like an important choice with lots of differences between the various distributions. Some are based on arch, some fedora or ubuntu. It seems like all need different types of packages to install software. And so on.
A little ironic, that this is less a problem when running Windows executables through a compatibility layer like wine.
Thanks for the explanation. So it works similar to the system partition on windows.
Yeah, same bit. Just put everything on another drive/partition and then mount that on /home (so you get /home/user) and that's it.
I somehow struggle a little to understand the role of distribution. When researching how to install Linux, it seemed like an important choice with lots of differences between the various distributions. Some are based on arch, some fedora or ubuntu. It seems like all need different types of packages to install software. And so on. A little ironic, that this is less a problem when running Windows executables through a compatibility layer like wine.
Distributions are essentially just a selection of the basic software required to make a system work. Things like, what version of the kernel you will start with, what init system (systemd is the current popular choice, but sysvinit is still widely used). Then there is the package manager, which is responsible for installing/updating all software on your system (you can install software without the package manager, but here there be dragons) and often a distro will include a Desktop Environment (which is, itself, another package of various software maintained by another group) like KDE Plasma, Cinnamon, XFCE, etc and some default software packages (like, LibreOffice, Firefox, or Steam).
There's a ton of little differences between distros in how they do things. Like one distro may release a full system update periodically and that update will have been in testing for months to ensure stability (Debian). While another strives to ensure the most current version of all software is available (Arch).
Often, groups will like how one system works, let's say Arch, but want to try something else, like adding a graphical installer, and adding some additional software and they'll create a new distro that is built on top of the work done by the Arch distro. This is why you see them described as Arch-based(EndeavourOS) or Fedora-based(Nobara).
That being said, there is no major differences between KDE Plasma that was installed on top of Mint and KDE Plasma installed on Arch. They may have different versions which are available in their respective package repositories, but it's the same software. Mint may not be on the same Kernel version as Nobara but they're all using some version of the same underlying Linux kernel code. Systemd is Systemd on Bazzite, Mint or Debian, etcetc.
I'm glossing over quite a bit and there are exceptions to almost everything I've said but I'm just trying to give you the broad strokes.
Part of the draw of Linux is the ability to swap all of these different components around as you will. Distros are simply popular configurations/design ideas that have a community built around them.
but we're all running essentially the same Linux Kernel
Uh, yes and no. If you're on Linux Mint 22.2+ you're on 6.14. If you're on Linux Mint 22.1 you're on 6.8.
If you're running Arch or equivalent, you're either on 6.17 or 6.18 at the moment.
Now that doesn't seem like a huge gap, but 6.8 came out March 2024. 6.14 is from March 2025. Debian 13.3 I think is on 6.12 which is November 2024.
These all seem recent, but Linux moves at such a fast pace that if you're gaming you really should be on the latest kernel for the best possible performance for gaming, especially if you have newer hardware.
Of course use whatever you like, but I would tell people to evaluate what would be the best option for their environment. For me I run my own websites and game servers. They're all on Debian containers.
If my mom came up to me and said she wanted to try "Linux" on her laptop, I'd just throw Ubuntu 24.04(or 26.04 for the next LTS) on it because I know she just needs something to surf the web.
And for me I recently went all in on CachyOS for my laptop and gaming desktop. I'm not running the latest and greatest hardware(Ryzen 3000 and 5000 series, Nvidia 3000 series), but this is my first attempt at a Arch based distro(well except my Steam Deck) and it's been pretty rock solid.
If it's only for the games, maybe using steam flatpak can help. So the packages needed for gaming on steam will be up to date (if you have an NVIDIA card it will still be a problem I guess). And install maybe protonup-qt (don't know if it is still used or replaced, sorry) to manage your proton versions and download the versions needed.
In addition, check protondb website to see if the problem you encounter are known and if it can be solved whether with a different version of proton or a command line in steam launcher exe of the game.
But if you want there is also the HoloISO project that tries to make SteamOS work better on other hardware.
github.com/HoloISO/releases/re…
I don't think HoloISO is developed anymore. Last release is from Jun 3, 2024.
Releases · HoloISO/releases
To whom shall install. Contribute to HoloISO/releases development by creating an account on GitHub.GitHub
SteamOS is an immutable Arch. Valves aim is to reduce support costs by ensuring everyone has the same build and to only support a hardware subset (AMD APUs) so it's less general purpose than a regular Linux distro intentionally. A steam deck is just a PC though and it is usable for non gaming tasks the same way a gaming focussed immutable system like Bazzite is. I even did development on a Chromebook for a month or more years ago as a challenge. It's possible. It wasn't ideal. The further you get from steam hardware and use case the more hoops you will need to jump through.
Games generally run more or less the same on any Linux system if they have the same kernel , steam runtime, mesa and proton in my experience. CachyOS might get a few more FPS until the patches they use get more widely distributed. Some compositors will get a little more performance than others.
Some games have detection for Steam deck that works around bugs they haven't bothered fixing for proton users in general. I have one game I had to set an environment variable so it would behave like on steam deck.
I think SteamOS on a mini amd apu system hooked up to a tv as a gaming system would make a lot of sense. Running it on a regular desktop for non gaming taks is more of a novelty thing. It's less practical than using a more general distro.
If you want to JUST game, SteamOS is great, like for a handheld, a living room gaming PC, etc.
If you want to do software dev, look elsewhere like Nobara, CachyOS, etc.
There's really no reason to use it on a general purpose desktop. It's designed to basically make a PC into a console. You do still have full access to the (mostly) normal Linux system behind it, but it's not something I'd use unless I was setting it up for someone who didn't want to deal with any of the behind the scenes stuff.
CachyOS, Nobara, and Bazzite all should get you the same level of gaming support with more flexibility as a normal OS, and they can all run Steam Big Picture which is basically the SteamOS UI.
Game compatibility and overall performance will be mostly the same regardless of which Linux distro you choose.
Yes some gaming focused distros add a few small extra tweaks bit in the grand scheme of things it's largely the same.
I wouldn't suggest using SteamOS outside of steam hardware het as its not built for general purpose computers. Futhermore, I wouldn't suggest using Bazzite (the steamos-like distro for general purpose computers) unless you were installing it on a gaming focused pc or htpc.
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Did it have no upside or is there a very clear case of corruption?
Keep in mind that it doesn't have to benefit everyone in the US or the US as a whole. It's a few people who are massively benefiting from it and they are conveniently Trumps financial backers.
Venezuela opens its oil sector to private investors
Washington has put pressure on Caracas for access to its crude reserves since it seized then President Nicolas Maduro less than a month ago.Srinivas Mazumdaru (Deutsche Welle)
Whatever Maduro did before was clearly not enough for the US and the oil cartel. They don't want a mutually beneficial agreement. They want to steal everything and leave a few crumbs for the dictator they install to keep them happy and their junta armed.
All we need to know is that Trump received big donations from oil lobbies and then after winning the presidency he used the US military to give his donors what they paid for.
If you think Trump is this stupid then he fooled you.
Trump may be the perfect idiot to act as the facade of the capitalist class and pull all the spotlights on his person, but he isn't the one calling all the shots. As always, it's the capitalists that really shape the direction of politics, and now they have a great loud distraction so they can pass all their fascist policies to terrorize the working class and make it all look like the decision of a few bad apples that corrupted "democracy".
When all this is done, assuming that there will be another election then, they will say that the big bad cheeto man has been defeated and now we can live harmoniously again, returning to the blissful ignorance of everyday class exploitation.
Never attribute to stupidity or malice that which is adequately explained by a combination of both.
The people who rule us are stupid and evil.
False. Their acts are out of malice not stupidity. Whenever they say something stupid, they don't believe in it. They have an agenda to push.
A prime example is the recent admission from Carney of always having known the rules based order to be a convenient lie
- YouTube
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.www.youtube.com
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Thesis: They're either evil or stupid
Antithesis: They're evil AND stupid
Synthesis, proposed: Malice is the difference between conscientious stupidity and predatory cultivation of ignorance.
Kennedy received millions from the same big donors as Trump. Mostly law firms Big pharma slid into his DM's after the elections with a few million and he already walked back many of his promises of deleting all vaccines so it kind of goes both ways.
Let's not forget that Kennedy very shamelessly joined Trump after his own campaign failed.
Their malice doesn't care about what the majority of people are going to suffer from. It's about what they can gain from it themselves. If these lobbies were rationally trying maximize wealth then oil lobbies wouldn't be trying to destroy the entire planet to keep everyone using oil.
The more social status some has the more it becomes the second one in my mind
or smth else nut there is some distinct differenece in my mind
I utterly loathe Hanlon's razor. It's peak naivete, especially when it's applied to groups of people that have ulterior motives - like business interests. It essentially gives companies a carte blanche to do evil shit, and when they get caught, all they have to do is blush and say "oops, how could that have possibly happened???!" But in reality, they were just doing some sort of self-serving behavior and hoping they could get away with it. And of course, they'll just end up doing it again a few months or years later on when the attention has died away.
Moral of the story: Hanlon's razor does not apply to corporations or other business interests. If it's your neighbors, well maybe give them the benefit of the doubt. If it's a multinational conglomerate, hell no, fuck that. Assume guilt 100% of the time.
I consider the whole set of razors to be pseudologic. Just because something helps pick a conclusion regardless of context doesn't mean it helps pick the correct conclusion.
I also don't get why they seem to be popular with people who like to act scientific, because they seem very unscientific to me.
But yeah, hanlon's is specifically stupid and I suspect it was popularized precisely because it advocates a default level of reasonable doubt for malicious people to hide in.
I also don’t get why they seem to be popular with people who like to act scientific, because they seem very unscientific to me.
They absolutely are. And it's very aggravating to see people immediately invoking it without a second thought. They just assume it to be some absolute universal truth that should be accepted without question. But why?? How is that any different from religion at that point?
But razors aren't supposed to be logic in the first place. They're not objective analytical tools to arrive at a conclusion, because they weren't designed to be. They're framing tools to help establish an initial hypothesis.
Occam's razor doesn't claim that the simplest explanation is true, it merely says it's the most practical assumption, all else being equal. If additional data provides more support for a more complicated explanation, Occam's really doesn't require you to cling to the simpler one.
Similarly Hanlon's razor doesn't claim that stupidity is universally a better explanation than malice, only that is the most practical assumption, all else being equal. It does not require you to ignore patterns of behavior that shift the likelihood toward malice.
Yeah, that use of them makes sense, as a method to churn out hypotheses. But their wording suggests to me that they might not have been created for that purpose (Hanlon's uses the word "never") and I think the vast majority of the time I see people invoking them in discussions is to try to discredit another comment, not to explain why they are presenting a hypothesis (in fact, once you have the hypothesis, the brainstorming method used to get there isn't really relevant anymore, next step should be determining ways to support or oppose that hypothesis).
It's just frustrating seeing people quoting razors as if they are supporting evidence, and that is the pseudologic part.
I'll also point out that "pseudoscience" or "pseudologic" doesn't mean it's useless, just that it isn't as profound as many seem to believe it is.
I'd say more "select from" than "churn out". It's not about generating a hypothesis, it's about having a collection of hypotheses and deciding which should be your default until additional evidence is provided.
Hanlon's razor says "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity", and "adequately" is pulling at least as much weight as "never". If stupidity becomes a less adequate explanation, nothing stops you from considering malice as an alternative.
People use things wrong all the time, sometimes the vast majority of the time (e.g. "literally"). Just because people use a concept pseudologically doesn't make it intrinsically pseudological.
Use the first version with personal relationships. Dont let paranoia ruin your social circle.
With politics, assume the worst.
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Not sure what you are saying. With the order of the meme reversed it doesn’t make it obvious which point is supposed the clearer point of view…
It isn't reversed compared to how this meme format is usually used: the glasses-on image is on the bottom, and associated with the viewpoint OP is saying is correct/better.
If one hasn't seen (or has forgotten) the film, this is the way that makes sense, since glasses (generally) improve the wearer's vision.
This meme's canonical format is however in fact at odds with :
A related meme form which doesn't have this ambiguity is the much older they live sunglasses - here the position of the two images are used less consistently (though as with peter parker, usually glasses-on is the lower one) but the glasses being on showing the truth actually fits with .
They Live Sunglasses
They Live Sunglasses refer to a plot device in the 1988 science fiction action satire film They Live. In the film, wearing a pair of special sunglasses allow the wearer to see through advertisements and other elements of consumerism to see the evil e…memetimeradiohour (Know Your Meme)
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US dollar sinks to its lowest level in four years
US dollar sinks to its lowest level in four years
Dollar drops against basket of currencies after Donald Trump brushed off concerns over slideJoanna Partridge (The Guardian)
Sam Altman Says OpenAI Is Slashing Its Hiring Pace as Financial Crunch Tightens
Sam Altman Says OpenAI Is Slashing Its Hiring Pace as Financial Crunch Tightens
During a livestreamed town hall event on Monday, Altman said that OpenAI is looking to "dramatically slow down" hiring.Victor Tangermann (Futurism)
Billionaire Dies After Swallowing a Bee During Polo Match
Billionaire Dies After Swallowing a Bee During Polo Match
Indian auto parts billionaire Sunjay Kapur died after reportedly swallowing a bee during a polo match at the Queen’s Cup in Windsor.Luis Prada (VICE)
Because it was such a pleasure to read, it needed to be read again.
Besides, I missed it the first time, so now I got to enjoy this feel-good story, too.
Kapur was a staple of India’s celebrity gossip pages, thanks to his deeply toxic marriage to Bollywood actress Karisma Kapoor. Their 13-year marriage ended in a mess of horrific allegations. Kapoor accused Kapur of attempting to auction her off to friends during their honeymoon, physical abuse, and instructing his mother to physically assault her during her pregnancy.
Tried to auction his wife to his friends and had his own mother beat his wife while she was pregnant? Go to fucking hell and stay there, you pos (allegedly).
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China to unveil policy to address AI's impact on jobs: ministry
China to unveil policy to address AI's impact on jobs: ministry - People's Daily Online
BEIJING, Jan. 27 (Xinhua) -- China will roll out policy measures aimed at addressing the impact of aen.people.cn
UK police to use AI facial recognition tech linked to Israel’s war on Gaza
The United Kingdom’s controversial rollout of facial recognition technology will rely on software that appears to have already been deployed in Gaza, where it is used by the Israeli army to track, trace, and abduct thousands of Palestinian civilians passing through checkpoints.
Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood announced on Monday that British police would massively increase the use of facial recognition technology used for surveillance purposes.
UK police to use AI facial recognition tech linked to Israel’s war on Gaza
Concerns rise as UK partners with controversial facial recognition company used by Israel in Gaza.Simon Speakman Cordall (Al Jazeera)
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CallMeAl (Not AI)
in reply to mlody • • •I agree with the idea of debloating and hardening your systems.
It helps to have some context as the approach I would take depends on what kind of system I'm running. I think its also good to identify your priorities to hone your approach.
When I want stability, fast security updates, minimal install size, I usually use Alpine which indeed uses the lighter busybox bin/sh instead of bash.
When it comes to my workstation shell I'm more focused on utility than size. So bash or zsh or fish, or whatever you find the most useful, makes sense to use.
bacon_pdp
in reply to mlody • • •confusedpuppy
in reply to bacon_pdp • • •I could imagine an it would matter more to people working with embedded devices.
Also some people just like learning or doing random things. Nothing wrong with some exploration, discovery or learning.
mlody
in reply to confusedpuppy • • •blackbrook
in reply to bacon_pdp • • •mlody
in reply to blackbrook • • •iByteABit
in reply to mlody • • •I don't think anyone is gonna hack you because of bash being a larger codebase
If I absolutely had to pick one as insecure, it would be anything other than bash since it has been around for so long, has its code read by so many people, that there's no way that a major hole exists in it
Overall though I don't think security or performance is a good metric for you to pick something as simple as a shell, just pick the one that gives you the best experience and features. Being compatible with bash is a big plus because it's the industry standard, like zsh for example
priapus
in reply to bacon_pdp • • •confusedpuppy
in reply to mlody • • •I don't have any answers, just my own experiences. Last year I decided to use Alpine Linux as my Operating System for a couple of self-hosted things running on a Raspberry Pi. I chose it because it's super minimal and used less common tools (for example
doasinstead ofsudo). That unintentionally forced me to learn how to use Linux using more basic commands that are more likely to be available on other Linux systems.Alpine Linux uses Busybox-Ash which is a POSIX compliant shell that's very small and very basic. The scripts I ended up writing tend to be POSIX portable meaning that they should work on a wider variety of systems. That comes at the cost of script simplicity and readability as well as missing out on many features that make Bash scripts more complex, robust and easier to work with.
I have a working example POSIX portable script. I've been adding to it all the things I've learned. You can check it out here if you're in
... show moreI don't have any answers, just my own experiences. Last year I decided to use Alpine Linux as my Operating System for a couple of self-hosted things running on a Raspberry Pi. I chose it because it's super minimal and used less common tools (for example
doasinstead ofsudo). That unintentionally forced me to learn how to use Linux using more basic commands that are more likely to be available on other Linux systems.Alpine Linux uses Busybox-Ash which is a POSIX compliant shell that's very small and very basic. The scripts I ended up writing tend to be POSIX portable meaning that they should work on a wider variety of systems. That comes at the cost of script simplicity and readability as well as missing out on many features that make Bash scripts more complex, robust and easier to work with.
I have a working example POSIX portable script. I've been adding to it all the things I've learned. You can check it out here if you're interested.
I use Alpine Linux with Sway as my daily driver but still keep a copy of Linux Mint DE ready to use because it's nice to have a fully featured work environment for the days I don't want to think.
testing/testing at main
Codeberg.orgmlody
in reply to confusedpuppy • • •Alpine Linux as daily driver... that's interesting. How is it in daily usage as desktop OS?
confusedpuppy
in reply to mlody • • •It's been a learning experience. I am pretty much building it specifically for my use so it's missing lots of stuff that's standard on other fully featured OS's. I'm mostly using a browser, Konsole terminal and KDE Kate as my editor.
I found an unexpected hobby in writing POSIX scripts because it's teaching me the inner workings of Linux. In the future I'd like to expand that to including the
sedandawkcommands but I haven't really found a project to use them with yet.Alpine Linux does offer a
setup-desktopcommand/script which will easily setup a few desktop environments such as Gnome, Plasma, Xfce, Mate, Sway and Lxqt. That only sets up the basic desktop environment so a lot of other work is needed to set up things like sound, graphics and a few other things.As I mentioned before, I still have Linux Mint DE installed. I mostly use it for Steam games but it has everything else I need for when I don't feel like working out a problem because I wanted to simply open a .pdf file. However, it's still really satisfying for me
... show moreIt's been a learning experience. I am pretty much building it specifically for my use so it's missing lots of stuff that's standard on other fully featured OS's. I'm mostly using a browser, Konsole terminal and KDE Kate as my editor.
I found an unexpected hobby in writing POSIX scripts because it's teaching me the inner workings of Linux. In the future I'd like to expand that to including the
sedandawkcommands but I haven't really found a project to use them with yet.Alpine Linux does offer a
setup-desktopcommand/script which will easily setup a few desktop environments such as Gnome, Plasma, Xfce, Mate, Sway and Lxqt. That only sets up the basic desktop environment so a lot of other work is needed to set up things like sound, graphics and a few other things.As I mentioned before, I still have Linux Mint DE installed. I mostly use it for Steam games but it has everything else I need for when I don't feel like working out a problem because I wanted to simply open a .pdf file. However, it's still really satisfying for me setting up a very specific work environment with the mininal tools I have available.
I think there is value in learning to work within a mininal environment to help give more life out of lower spec technology that's currently available. Especially now with all the ram supply issues because of the AI rush.
pastermil
in reply to mlody • • •You do not want to use dash interactively! It is created solely for scripting and not for creature comfort. This means all the stuff you're probably used to such as line editing and command history will not be available.
At some point, you'd want to ask yourself how heavy is "heavy" and how much stuff are you willing to shed? Do you not need tools such as web browser, media player, or office suite? Are you willing to get rid of desktop environment?
In the extreme, you can remove all the documentations, all the manpages to save space. You can even remove all the localization files, without which stuff would look weird, but would still run.
Further than that, you can even customize your kernel, opting out all the drivers you don't need, or even some that you could use (e.g. wifi, audio, hardware monitoring). Next, some kernel features that are less essential such as statistics, logging, and debugging, as well as the handling for some network protocols. If you wanna go crazy, you can enable the expert/embedded options and with that you can disable stuff that can be
... show moreYou do not want to use dash interactively! It is created solely for scripting and not for creature comfort. This means all the stuff you're probably used to such as line editing and command history will not be available.
At some point, you'd want to ask yourself how heavy is "heavy" and how much stuff are you willing to shed? Do you not need tools such as web browser, media player, or office suite? Are you willing to get rid of desktop environment?
In the extreme, you can remove all the documentations, all the manpages to save space. You can even remove all the localization files, without which stuff would look weird, but would still run.
Further than that, you can even customize your kernel, opting out all the drivers you don't need, or even some that you could use (e.g. wifi, audio, hardware monitoring). Next, some kernel features that are less essential such as statistics, logging, and debugging, as well as the handling for some network protocols. If you wanna go crazy, you can enable the expert/embedded options and with that you can disable stuff that can be critical (e.g. error reporting, certain IPC feature).
It's a rabbit hole, really.
MonkderVierte
in reply to pastermil • • •mlody
in reply to MonkderVierte • • •pastermil
in reply to MonkderVierte • • •mlody
in reply to pastermil • • •Web browser are the type of software which I hate the most. They're main reason why a lot of personal computers aren't usable anymore. Also browsing web through terminal is impossible, that's another point for me to hate them 🤣 Of course I'm forced to use them but when I can I'm choosing alternatives like Gemini or Gopher and native apps. If I could I will not leaving terminal but as I need it for few GUI apps I'm using DWM 😊 I'm planning also to learn how to compile my own kernel.
It's not about disk space but learning, minimalism (which I love), better security and efficient resource usage.
I don't care how many resources is used by program but how efficient. People are telling me that they see in their resource monitors that they systems are using a lot of RAM, mainly gamers who have 64 GB of ram and complain about 20 GB in usage by Windows. But this why they have RAM, to use it! If they don't need it system should allocate RAM in proper way to make computer faster. Of course Windows is not good example of efficient resource allocating 😂 but
... show moreWeb browser are the type of software which I hate the most. They're main reason why a lot of personal computers aren't usable anymore. Also browsing web through terminal is impossible, that's another point for me to hate them 🤣 Of course I'm forced to use them but when I can I'm choosing alternatives like Gemini or Gopher and native apps. If I could I will not leaving terminal but as I need it for few GUI apps I'm using DWM 😊 I'm planning also to learn how to compile my own kernel.
It's not about disk space but learning, minimalism (which I love), better security and efficient resource usage.
I don't care how many resources is used by program but how efficient. People are telling me that they see in their resource monitors that they systems are using a lot of RAM, mainly gamers who have 64 GB of ram and complain about 20 GB in usage by Windows. But this why they have RAM, to use it! If they don't need it system should allocate RAM in proper way to make computer faster. Of course Windows is not good example of efficient resource allocating 😂 but I want to make my point more clear. It's not about removing critical features to just make it run, but making my system suited for my needs and efficient as much it's possible. So removing man pages is not related to my case as I'm using them :)
I like to tinker and I'm learning about computers that way. I ask questions and looking for methods to optimize every part of my systems. They don't have to be the best optimized and if will not have that many time as I have to learn I wouldn't worry too much about it and just work on computer. I'm just aware that always we can do something better.
pastermil
in reply to mlody • • •Can I entertain you with some minimalistic distros? Alpine is the first thing that comes to mind.
It uses busybox which is some kind of minimalistic all-in-one program that includes everything you need to run an OS such as init system and core utilities. And yes, you guessed it, it includes a shell that is a stripped down version of bash. Even the libc is stripped down here, with musl instead of glibc.
Speaking of busybox and musl, there's also another distro that centers around compiling tiny embedded rootfs image. With this you can configure what (not) to include in the kernel. You can also do the same with busybox, where you can choose to include or exclude utilities.
But honestly, to have something lean while being able to keep up with modern computing, I'd choose Gentoo where you can choose what (not) to put in your programs at compile time.
mlody
in reply to pastermil • • •pastermil
in reply to mlody • • •mlody
in reply to pastermil • • •MonkderVierte
in reply to mlody • • •I do write my scripts in POSIX sh, more for compatibility sake. But shells like dash, mksh, are not made for interactive use, they lack most not-really-convenience features.
But heavy, that's only invocation time; it mathers more if you do things like 100 awk calls (that one is heavy to invoke) per line you parse.
Though i did write my own cross-shell session scripts, centering on the ENV variable which most shells understand (and a /etc/bash/bashrc loading it, since Bash doesn't).
Again, more because i think, why load xkb maps 3 times in 3 scripts if you can do it only once? And most session scripts look like they were never touched the last 20 years. And then a if you do it, do it right mindset.
Worth learning; i think so. You learn, with time, more about how to use shorthands and functions, to structure your scripts nicely, instead of doing if if if messes more "convenient" shells lead you to. Which benefits you in real programming languages too and leads to more readable and better maintainable scripts.
... show moreAnd the only times i miss convenien
I do write my scripts in POSIX sh, more for compatibility sake. But shells like dash, mksh, are not made for interactive use, they lack most not-really-convenience features.
But heavy, that's only invocation time; it mathers more if you do things like 100 awk calls (that one is heavy to invoke) per line you parse.
Though i did write my own cross-shell session scripts, centering on the ENV variable which most shells understand (and a /etc/bash/bashrc loading it, since Bash doesn't).
Again, more because i think, why load xkb maps 3 times in 3 scripts if you can do it only once? And most session scripts look like they were never touched the last 20 years. And then a if you do it, do it right mindset.
Worth learning; i think so. You learn, with time, more about how to use shorthands and functions, to structure your scripts nicely, instead of doing if if if messes more "convenient" shells lead you to. Which benefits you in real programming languages too and leads to more readable and better maintainable scripts.
And the only times i miss convenience features like arrays is in 500+ loc scripts which would have better been done in python.
Btw, don't do 500+ loc shell scripts: they do become a maintenance mess even if you do everything right.
Edit: right, i forgot the POSIXLY_CORRECT env variable. Some AUR setup-scripts have issues with a forced POSIX shell.
Oinks
in reply to mlody • • •mlody
in reply to Oinks • • •BCsven
in reply to mlody • • •Debloating a system for a tiny appliance device is worth it. Debloating on a machine with a modern processor, 16-64 GB ram and a TB harddrive is not necessary. You may not even notice a difference.
But if you enjoy that stuff, go for it.
I have only used KSH for a proprietary software install that needed it, it didn't feel much different than working in a BASH shell.
boredsquirrel (he)
in reply to mlody • • •柊 つかさ
in reply to mlody • • •mlody
in reply to 柊 つかさ • • •Now I understand that dash sucks as interactive shell. Maybe I'll try fish as interactive shell just to check what it is, cause it's popular at the moment. But as I'm forced to have bash installed and it's great for interactive shell usage I will stick with it :)
MimicJar
in reply to mlody • • •As you've mentioned in other threads, bash is a hard requirement for the OS, so if it's already installed, and the default on most Linux distros, bash is probably the best option.
The dash shell isn't designed to be user interactive. It's a lightweight scripting shell/language.
The ksh shell is an older standard shell. Years ago I worked for a company that ran corporate Unix systems and on those systems only ksh and tcsh were available. Ksh was the default, and as someone only familiar with bash it was a bit different but mostly the same. So there is at least one point for maybe choosing ksh.
However my personal shell preference is zsh. When I write scripts I do so using bash. The two shells are 99% similar on a day to day basis, but I prefer zsh for a user interface. So I use one for day to day and the other for scripting.
Other threads have also mentioned fish, which is also a great choice if you don't know where to start.
Are zsh or fish "heavier" or "bloated", maybe. But remember to consider your attack surface. If your house is on fire it doesn't
... show moreAs you've mentioned in other threads, bash is a hard requirement for the OS, so if it's already installed, and the default on most Linux distros, bash is probably the best option.
The dash shell isn't designed to be user interactive. It's a lightweight scripting shell/language.
The ksh shell is an older standard shell. Years ago I worked for a company that ran corporate Unix systems and on those systems only ksh and tcsh were available. Ksh was the default, and as someone only familiar with bash it was a bit different but mostly the same. So there is at least one point for maybe choosing ksh.
However my personal shell preference is zsh. When I write scripts I do so using bash. The two shells are 99% similar on a day to day basis, but I prefer zsh for a user interface. So I use one for day to day and the other for scripting.
Other threads have also mentioned fish, which is also a great choice if you don't know where to start.
Are zsh or fish "heavier" or "bloated", maybe. But remember to consider your attack surface. If your house is on fire it doesn't matter of you fix the leaky faucet in bathroom or the kitchen.
thingsiplay
in reply to MimicJar • • •I used to do the same, Bash as the default script interpreter and ZSH as my terminal interactive shell. Worked well. I also had Dash as the
/usr/bin/shinstalled. But once I installed a new OS, I did not want to set it up immediately and wanted to do it later. Then I realized that I do not need to and frankly didn't notice any difference. Besides ZSH was a bit slow here and there with the kind of setup I had. So since then I stayed on Bash only again and don't miss most of the stuff (but ZSH had some nice features).I wouldn't have even mentioned Fish here, its too different. If you going to learn a scripting language that is this different, then there are even more shells out there. I would stick to Bash (or ZSH for that matter). Especially if its the first shell language you get into.
MimicJar
in reply to thingsiplay • • •Yeah, I mentioned fish, or zsh, only because day to day shell and scripting shell can be different.
If you want to script, bash is the way to go. For day to day, any personal preference is fine.
mlody
in reply to MimicJar • • •youmaynotknow
in reply to mlody • • •~~Alacrity or die~~
See comment below.
mlody
in reply to youmaynotknow • • •youmaynotknow
in reply to mlody • • •~~alacritty.org/~~
And again, see comment below 😂
mlody
in reply to youmaynotknow • • •youmaynotknow
in reply to mlody • • •My bad, I apologize, and thanks for clarifying. I think my brain automatically changed shell for terminal, and I could have sworn your reply had a question mark after 'terminal'. Gotta stop replying here when I'm almost asleep.
For shell, I always end up switching to Zsh, mainly because of the extensive and easy customization.
thingsiplay
in reply to mlody • • •In the past I replaced Bash as the default POSIX shell interpreter
/usr/bin/shwith Dash. Normally the/usr/bin/shis run by Bash in compatibility mode, if no Bash features are needed. Dash is an independent implementation of/usr/bin/shcompatibility and in theory should startup a little faster than Bash for those scripts. In practice I didn't notice any difference on my modern computers (and I mean more than a decade old by now). My personal experience and recommendation is not to worry about this and not install Dash at all. If you do, nothing will break or get worse, but I believe nothing is won either.Dash as an interpreter for
/usr/bin/shis only for shell scripts, that run the shell in default mode without Bash or other features. It is not intended for use in the terminal in an interactive manner.Learning Bash? Oh hell yeah! The language is a bit ugly and has really lot of pitfalls and dumb language constructs or default behavior. But it is the default and you can rely on Bash for the most part in Linux. You
... show moreIn the past I replaced Bash as the default POSIX shell interpreter
/usr/bin/shwith Dash. Normally the/usr/bin/shis run by Bash in compatibility mode, if no Bash features are needed. Dash is an independent implementation of/usr/bin/shcompatibility and in theory should startup a little faster than Bash for those scripts. In practice I didn't notice any difference on my modern computers (and I mean more than a decade old by now). My personal experience and recommendation is not to worry about this and not install Dash at all. If you do, nothing will break or get worse, but I believe nothing is won either.Dash as an interpreter for
/usr/bin/shis only for shell scripts, that run the shell in default mode without Bash or other features. It is not intended for use in the terminal in an interactive manner.Learning Bash? Oh hell yeah! The language is a bit ugly and has really lot of pitfalls and dumb language constructs or default behavior. But it is the default and you can rely on Bash for the most part in Linux. You can write scripts, understand others scripts and make changes to them. And it is even used in the IT industry everywhere (well maybe not everywhere...). But that's not all, you have to learn Linux stuff too, not just the scripting language to make most use of it. While Bash the language itself is ugly, it is still useful to learn the basics and get into it a bit deeper over time. I fully recommend it.
mlody
in reply to thingsiplay • • •thingsiplay
in reply to mlody • • •POSIX shell is the standard that all shells should support (Fish does not I think). Its basically what is executed if you run it as
/usr/bin/shscript. POSIX is not a specific shell itself, its just the standard./usr/bin/shis usually a symbolic link to an actual shell interpreter. And any shell could support it, in example Bash with its compatibility mode (what is usually done by default in todays Linux systems). Or Dash is designed to do that specifically and only that as far as I know.Bash on the other hand is an enhanced shell that introduces some concepts, features and changes default behavior of the standard POSIX. That is when the script runs with
/usr/bin/bash. This is also used in your terminal as the interactive shell. And ZSH in example is similar to Bash, but has some extended features over Bash. They are relatively speaking similar. I think ZSH is or was the default shell in MacOS too.As for KSH, I don't have no experience about this myself. I only know it exists and just saw checklists of differences.
mlody
in reply to thingsiplay • • •JetpackJackson
in reply to mlody • • •mlody
in reply to JetpackJackson • • •priapus
in reply to mlody • • •