From the first moment I first went online in 1996, forums were the main place to hang out. In fact the very first thing I did was join an online forum run by the Greek magazine "PC Master" so I could directly to my favourite game reviewers (for me it…
ah yes, the age old tale of "the internet sucks and people are stupid"
If you've ever tried hosting a web based solution you'll know exactly what i mean. The entirety of web hosting is a disaster. The entire mountain of web code is a nightmare, and the collection of website based frameworks do nothing more than burn electricity and man hours to create a fucking button on a screen.
as for discord, i haven't puzzled that one out yet, i don't understand. Probably lazy developers and the community aspect, it's a forum, but free, and worse. And now you can shitpost with random people you don't even know!
Personally, i believe that enshittifcation is an inevitability. You put somebody in a room with something, and when you take them out, that thing will somehow have gotten more complex, and thus probably worse.
Discord, at one point, was better than a lot of other app on the market, and they were one of the first where you could just create an account and join any group, for free.
It became the standard, and now we're stuck with that shit
Don't hold your breath on the whole "wisening up to the VC funding" thing. People today still believe the moon landing was somehow faked to own the libs or something silly like that.
obviously but VC funding is predicated on very slimy concepts and it's pretty easy for the broad market forces to adapt away from it, as we see with current VC projects. We just need to somehow deal with that problem. That's the hard part though.
Isn't discord just shittier, proprietary IRC? I'm only on it because my Linux distro's dev uses it for communication for some reason, but from what I can tell, it's just a locked-down IRC client you can buy emojis and shit on.
It's also got great VOIP functionality. And it's been a hot minute since I've used IRC, but you can automate tons of things in Discord around things like user roles. I play an old fighting game that has no ranked system, and all of that functionality, including running weekly tournaments, is handled by a Discord bot that runs on a Raspberri Pi.
it's IRC but if it had all the features, and was monetized. It has a lot more features from what i understand, but aside from that it's basically just a VOIP communication platform with video sharing. IDK why there aren't any significant alternatives like we have with mumble tho.
But people are so used to seamless voice and video chat nowadays - and that’s a technical hurdle that AFAIK, no open-source self-hostable projects have come close to solving.
this is unironically such a big problem, there are great voice chatting solutions, mumble, and the handful of other ones that exist out there.
There are basically 0 good usable video conferencing/sharing softwares out there. The same goes for desktop streaming. If we just focused like, a little bit more of our energy on these two things, i think the world would unironically get better. It's 2024, h264 runs on a CPU like nothing, why haven't we figured out how to do these things yet?
The ones that do exist are likely to be web based, and thus, webRTC, the dreaded behemoth of both web support and also, generally poor implementation. I just want mumble but with support for video streaming, how hard is it >:(
What do you need screen sharing for? This comes up so, so rarely for me.
it's convenient, also it'd be nice if it had the feature capability.
Mumble is great, but if there was something like mumble, that implemented video sharing, that would be miles better, though a lot of people would probably still use mumble, as it's fine.
From what i've dug into, basically every video sharing capable setup is based on web technology, and i simply refuse to go near web technology unless i WANT to use a web browser. It's just, worse, in so many ways.
Plenty of console Homebrew and general gaming forums are still around. Like GBAtemp and ResetEra. I think all forms have really been about niche things for the most part. There were some general purpose forms but most of them focused around some Central subject that is core to their identity.
Truly general purpose platforms that attempt to be about everything weren't really a thing until social media, with digg and Reddit.
It’s 2024, h264 runs on a CPU like nothing, why haven’t we figured out how to do these things yet?
It's not about the hardware. (Not like it's that ubiquitous anyway; I'm daily driving a machine from 2017)
I'm going to guess part of it is because for the things that matter to the people who do end up having to code, test and distribute stuff, something like "seamless screen sharing" or "video conference" doesnt really matter.
And IMO, that's good if we want to Recover the Web.
The idea behind being in something like a jabber chatroom, or a web forum, is that I can pay attention to 12 channels (or whatever) at a time, read one or two, reply in three others, etc. Text is so un-invasive that I can just explore without bothering myself or anyone else.
In comparison, something like audio chat or video chat is more presence-encompassing. You can't really "push to talk" three different things to three chatrooms at about once, and you likely can but won't want to listen to three chatrooms f
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It’s 2024, h264 runs on a CPU like nothing, why haven’t we figured out how to do these things yet?
It's not about the hardware. (Not like it's that ubiquitous anyway; I'm daily driving a machine from 2017)
I'm going to guess part of it is because for the things that matter to the people who do end up having to code, test and distribute stuff, something like "seamless screen sharing" or "video conference" doesnt really matter.
And IMO, that's good if we want to Recover the Web.
The idea behind being in something like a jabber chatroom, or a web forum, is that I can pay attention to 12 channels (or whatever) at a time, read one or two, reply in three others, etc. Text is so un-invasive that I can just explore without bothering myself or anyone else.
In comparison, something like audio chat or video chat is more presence-encompassing. You can't really "push to talk" three different things to three chatrooms at about once, and you likely can but won't want to listen to three chatrooms full of people at the same time. For something like a videoconference you not only need a camera, but a good behind-you because not only who knows who or what will be showing back there.
In the end, something like a simple jabber-like chatroom is far easier and more productive to work on, even before we get to the coding part.
Not to mention: this is computer stuff. No one really likes to work on "debt", which is what "Foo has to have 'screen sharing' because Discord has it" ultimately boils down to.
the major issue with forums, as pointed out, is the hassle of having to go from one website to another to talk about various subjects and needing to sign up to each one of them.
Honestly the "having to sign up" part would be trivial to solve if topical forums just globally adopted OpenID sign-in or similar. No need to have one account per community if you already have (or "are") an account in the World.
But even then, there's a point to having to go through a sign-up process. At least some sort of vetting. We have seen how far have fallen all the communities that have ever relaxed sign-ups (as another comment in this thread shows, there was once a time when FB only allowed educated people in).
Well Discord, Slack, & others are web tech too so it’s not like avoiding it is easy. If I have to use these services, I would prefer it be in the browser’s sandbox.
Even still, almost all debug, troubleshoot, pairing session I have done in the last 4 years have been done over Upterm or Tmate, which is much, much lighter on bandwidth & not crushed by video compression.
Your creds could be diminished based on which usenet forums you frequented. I had a little while in my 90s youth obsessed with researching marihuana, libertarian ideals, and discrediting Scientology in the alt.scientology groups. Not great, kind of normal for usenet, but there were much darker places to inhabit there. Worst of all was posting from my university account with my real name.
I really don't get how one is supposed to use more than one server. As in, how to spread one's attention to feel like one is present in so many places. It's a total non-starter for me.
Yeah. Federating forums seem like a useful feature to keep them going. The forum style has it benefits that the discord and reddit style lacks. Sadly a forum I used a lot for my community is now in its final days, even if it managed to last a lot longer than others
true. I didn't consider that. That would could work. Lemmy is a lot more advanced in that regard. Currently the best ideas are Discord and give up, and the original owners are done with the idea, but I could try and create a spiritual successor on here. Lemmy suffers a bit from the same isues as Forums with lack of people, but I only need to convince the OGs. I need to think about that, and a forum from 2004 whose software is a decade out of date is easy to beat in that regard
Also tools like Lemmy Federate can help broaden the reach and allow more people on Lemmy to discover your communities, since communities and their content doesn't get federated until someone is subscribed to them.
Yeah it seems not a lot of people are aware of this tool anymore. I guess since it's no longer advertised on lemy.lol's sidebar people just sort of forgot about it.
I'm on 3 active forums and 2 lemmies and 2 mastos and I just leave myself logged in. It's nothing like that. Somehow that's still a better user experience than discord
Corpos are spending countless resources to infiltrate anything with as much as a iota of traction so that they can bleed the cow cash dry and sell its carcass for money.
Even if you distrust the corpos and want them to die, the majority of the population has so much trouble just surviving that its hard to raise up against that bullshit
There were plenty of free forum hosts back in the day.
But then social media came out, and everyone got addicted to the gamified dopamine mechanics like upvotes and shit. So now everything has to have upvotes, or likes, or whatever other stupid bullshit shit that has absolutely ruined human interaction and discourse and is single handedly to blame for the extremity in modern discourse, because the need to drive clicks and upvotes leads to extreme polarization where no common sense, honest discussion can be held.
because you either 100% agree with me (upvote) or you are a baby killing bastard who disagrees with me (downvote), and there can be no middle ground! /s
Man you said it. I despise discord. My gaming group will post things in the chat, and if you ever want to look at something again it's a pain in the ass to find it
yeah, and discord slack and basically everything based on electron is a fresh hell.
I love having three separate instances of chrome running the background while just using my computer, such that they all consume an entire gigabyte of ram for no particular reason.
TBF i wouldn't do much if any troubleshooting over RDP or anything similar, i use SSH for all that stuff lol. I'm just confused that nobody has put together a "relatively" functional version of this yet, it seems like it would be prime realestate.
There were plenty of free forum hosts back in the day. (edit: just did a search and there are still free forum hosts)
But then social media came out, and everyone got addicted to the gamified dopamine mechanics like upvotes and shit. So now everything has to have upvotes, or likes, or whatever other stupid bullshit shit that has absolutely ruined human interaction and discourse and is single handedly to blame for the extremity in modern discourse, because the need to drive clicks and upvotes leads to extreme polarization where no common sense, honest discussion can be held.
because you either 100% agree with me (upvote) or you are a baby killing bastard who disagrees with me (downvote), and there can be no middle ground! /s
Even with a free forum host, it's difficult to keep things running for a long time.
Awhile back I was unsatisfied with how quickly my (new) furniture was degrading, and found a furniture forum run by a guy in the biz. So much knowledge on there about different furniture and how to actually find quality stuff that will last decades.
The owner retired this week, and he had been paying for an IT contract to do basic maintenance / upgrades on the forum (I think he started on a free host, but as it got bigger he eventually had to move it). He needed IT help basically to apply security patches and do upgrades. He's stated that he no longer plans to pay for the maintenance contract. I'm guessing the forum will disappear soon.
I’m going to guess part of it is because for the things that matter to the people who do end up having to code, test and distribute stuff, something like “seamless screen sharing” or “video conference” doesnt really matter.
this definitely makes sense in the OSS community, but i feel like someone should've already done it as a semi pet project already. I know i would've done it.
And IMO, that’s good if we want to Recover the Web.
that's an interesting take, but personally i think the web should stick to pretty much static web pages, the browser is turning into a secondary operating system, which is being run on an operating system, which is just, stupid.
Personally i don't think any of this stuff should be done over the web, period.
The idea behind being in something like a jabber chatroom, or a web forum, is that I can pay attention to 12 channels (or whatever) at a time, read one or two, reply in three others, etc. Text is so un-invasive that I can just
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I’m going to guess part of it is because for the things that matter to the people who do end up having to code, test and distribute stuff, something like “seamless screen sharing” or “video conference” doesnt really matter.
this definitely makes sense in the OSS community, but i feel like someone should've already done it as a semi pet project already. I know i would've done it.
And IMO, that’s good if we want to Recover the Web.
that's an interesting take, but personally i think the web should stick to pretty much static web pages, the browser is turning into a secondary operating system, which is being run on an operating system, which is just, stupid.
Personally i don't think any of this stuff should be done over the web, period.
The idea behind being in something like a jabber chatroom, or a web forum, is that I can pay attention to 12 channels (or whatever) at a time, read one or two, reply in three others, etc. Text is so un-invasive that I can just explore without bothering myself or anyone else.
yeah, my main complaint though is that we do have things like jabber, this is already incredibly accessible, there is almost no need for expanding the current landscape because it's been around for like 30 years now.
In comparison, something like audio chat or video chat is more presence-encompassing. You can’t really “push to talk” three different things to three chatrooms at about once, and you likely can but won’t want to listen to three chatrooms full of people at the same time.
no but that's not the immediate use case either, something like mumble is really nice if you're playing games with other people and just want to VOIP so you don't have to use a text chat, you can talk and play video games at the same time pretty easily. It's also nice if you just want to casually hang around other people without having to be physically near them, or at a keyboard typing on it constantly.
For something like a videoconference you not only need a camera, but a good behind-you because not only who knows who or what will be showing back there.
i mean, you don't need a camera, maybe in a professional setting, but in a casual setting, screensharing something to show someone else for example, you don't even need a camera.
Not to mention: this is computer stuff. No one really likes to work on “debt”, which is what “Foo has to have ‘screen sharing’ because Discord has it” ultimately boils down to.
this is fair, and tbh i don't even really want a discord clone, you could very easily just adapt one of the many existing text chat protocols IRC being the most obvious, and VOIP is basically a solved problem, that's not hard either. Mumble has a pretty good low latency implementation of it, but you don't always need low latency. Video sharing/video conferencing is harder, but we have things like youtube and netflix, so the actual video streaming part isn't the hard thing. We have entire video manipulation libraries like FFMPEG as well, which will do everything you need it to do.
Mumble i think is the perfect example of a "minimalist" application, it does VOIP and it does it really well. I pretty much just want mumble but for video sharing and i'd be happy.
Yeah I've heard the spam problems have gotten worse these days but I always knew people complained about that because many of the services just didn't moderate spam.
That is why upterm & tmate exist… ephemeral shared SSH sessions. Biggest missing feature would be some sort of scoping since someone could raw dog your system—catting SSH keys, deleting config, force pushing a repo if unlocked keys are in memory.
Edit: I poorly skimmed this article and mistook some of its points. This comment deserves no upvotes and I’ll circle back later and give some credible feedback.
tl;dr the internet didn't used to be about making money, it was a place where people created all kinds of content, for almost no reason at all, and almost nobody was making any money, except AOL which blew all their money on CDs probably
this definitely makes sense in the OSS community, but i feel like someone should’ve already done it as a semi pet project already. I know i would’ve done it.
Pet project, yes; production-ready, that's a whole 'nother story.
Ultimately some things are too complex to deliver out on tem "just because". Such as web browsers, hence ATM there only exist about 2.
Really getting momentum from Reddit will be tough though. Our main advantage is that we have the rest of the Fediverse as a potential user base, and existing forum apps that also activate apub; reducing network effects. If the Fediverse has momentum, so has the threadiverse.
if i wanted to share my terminal it's pretty trivial to do that. Unfortunately i use my computer outside of the terminal environment semi regularly, for most applications really.
Discord is a terrible platform for communities and for support, because it's one giant group chat and the messages scroll by. You really need a forum type environment for these types of things and while discord does have a forum format option, it's still really sucks and also gets little use on the count of how the rest of Discord is structured.
That is interesting, the last time i tried Element/matrix it did not have these features. Can I ask, is your screen sharing of a quality that you can stream videos and games at equivilant frame rates?
Back on reddit, I mostly interacted with communities relating to JRPGs. There are some communities over here, but at most they post some trailers every now and then. There are also some more focussd communities about Dragon Quest, Xenoblade or SMT - all of them practically dead. I don't think there is an instance.
I could go over to a programming related one, the german instance or even one of the vegan instances for secondary 'interests', but those aren't things I often find myself posting about online to be honest. They seem to be mostly about memes anyways.
I have never tried that. We use it to share powerpoints in meetings or do troubleshooting together. Or I use it to do family video calls with the kids. Fps are never an issue. There are times where there are compression artifacts tho. Especially if someone have a bad or variable connection. On a buss or a train or similar.
Matrix servers chew up an order of magnitude more CPU/RAM which limits the places you can deploy it. The eventual consistency model makes storage balloon as every message, attachment, metadata must be copied to all nodes in a conversation which is resilient, but wasteful in duplicated content in practices which has historically caused many medium & larger servers to shut down due to the explosive just of storage (similar issues with Mastodon). That same model is why it takes on the order of minutes to just join a room or come back to a client that hasn’t been opened recently. Element X & new servers have to work so damn hard to work around asynchronously than fundamental decision to attempt to hide it from the sluggish UX but behind the scenes still too expensive. & since it is expensive to run in many vectors this causes folks to then move to the biggest servers that can handle the load which means the Matrix network is in actuality a small number of massive servers (most of which managed by Matrix.org) & a small number of tiny hobbyists running nodes of
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Matrix servers chew up an order of magnitude more CPU/RAM which limits the places you can deploy it. The eventual consistency model makes storage balloon as every message, attachment, metadata must be copied to all nodes in a conversation which is resilient, but wasteful in duplicated content in practices which has historically caused many medium & larger servers to shut down due to the explosive just of storage (similar issues with Mastodon). That same model is why it takes on the order of minutes to just join a room or come back to a client that hasn’t been opened recently. Element X & new servers have to work so damn hard to work around asynchronously than fundamental decision to attempt to hide it from the sluggish UX but behind the scenes still too expensive. & since it is expensive to run in many vectors this causes folks to then move to the biggest servers that can handle the load which means the Matrix network is in actuality a small number of massive servers (most of which managed by Matrix.org) & a small number of tiny hobbyists running nodes of <10 users is practice. With so many users on Matrix.org-controlled instances (& again with eventual consistency), almost all data gets synced to their nodes make subpoenas a breeze.
A healthier network would have many fewer massive centralized nodes, medium-sized nodes, & the resource requirements would be low enough that more folks would be encouraged more often to run their own nodes they control so they aren’t required to trust an unknown serves operator. Meaning “just making an account on any public server” isn’t a great mode of operation for privacy—especially as with Matrix joining a medium-sized server will put them under a lot of strain causing them to throw in the tower & joining the few massive servers further exacerbating the centralization issue.
Copying the UX of Slack/Telegram/Discord in a decentralized manner is a fool's errand. Keeping the chat history for eternity is already a questionable call over using forums, but trying to distribute that out like a blockchain is so wasteful.
Thank you for a detailed answer. We probably do not notice much of this problem yet, since we are in the low user count of 30-40 with mostly local channels.
It’s once you start federating do the prices start to soar, & most things can hold local channels fine… but that’s kind of the point if you are hitching your cart to say something is decentralized as a bullet point for privacy. But if it’s mostly local channels, wouldn’t IRCv3 cut it?
I do not know the in's and out of ircv3. But we use matrix/elements for videocalls. Groupcalls. Screen and videosharing etc as well; Not just text chats. Beeing able to quickly search all of your chat history across all your channels and dm's are very nice. Not requiering a irc bouncer to recieve messages is essential. Atleast for us having another vm among the thousands we host in our dc is not a huge cost, but i understand that is not the same for everyone.
kind of, like i said i play technical minecraft so the kind of stuff i'm accustomed to are the fact that repeaters schedule power events on a priority system changing based on what it's powering or not.
I will probably end up playing mineclone2/voxelibre at some point though, it's just not really a substitute here unfortunately.
V3 has chathistory + away status so the bouncer isn’t needed. Voice & video would be out of scope if trying to use a single tool, but the way these protocol operate is just to handshake & negotion for another protocol. My mates & I use Mumble (looking for alternative but everything kinda sucks & uses too many resources) for audio & share terminal sessions for other tasks where video is a massive liability for bandwidth & accessibility with video artifacts making text illegible.
Even still none of this requires perpetual data replication—what it leads to is Alice joining Bob’s server instead of setting up her own server & joining that way since the cost of hosting all that data + CPU/RAM prohibit her sovereignty in the space. Our society has enough of that where you can’t own your own land or other resources, reliant solely on those in power. With tech we can give that power back to folks so they can run their own stuff if they want, but we can’t have that if the cost of running everything is too high due
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V3 has chathistory + away status so the bouncer isn’t needed. Voice & video would be out of scope if trying to use a single tool, but the way these protocol operate is just to handshake & negotion for another protocol. My mates & I use Mumble (looking for alternative but everything kinda sucks & uses too many resources) for audio & share terminal sessions for other tasks where video is a massive liability for bandwidth & accessibility with video artifacts making text illegible.
Even still none of this requires perpetual data replication—what it leads to is Alice joining Bob’s server instead of setting up her own server & joining that way since the cost of hosting all that data + CPU/RAM prohibit her sovereignty in the space. Our society has enough of that where you can’t own your own land or other resources, reliant solely on those in power. With tech we can give that power back to folks so they can run their own stuff if they want, but we can’t have that if the cost of running everything is too high due to bloated design.
Also this was hard ta read: Is your space bar broken? ’Cause a lot of words are stuck together… ins & outs*, DMs* …apostrophes don’t make words plural.
This was inspired by debian guy on the same community you can check out his story here i hope i aint stealing anything
Why did i decided to move to linux? Windows is getting slower with win11 + the microsoft recall thing, (tho windows 10 solved this issue. am prob gonna fully switch linux once windows 10 ends support, and i dont think windows 12 is gonna be any better and idk why am considering buying macos as a secondary os.) and also Linux gives you more frames as well in gaming.
The story: So i wanted to try Linux, the first distro i ever used if you count is Ubuntu, i hardly used it in the vm, but really it was Linux mint, i loved the speed,simplicity,etc i would download distros on my brothers laptop when he takes my gaming pc bcs how windows 11 is slow on his laptop i also used tails os(on my main pc) and some nix (didnt like Nixos config when i was new) and i used Tails os as well and i didnt know why discord isnt working :) i found my fa
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This was inspired by debian guy on the same community you can check out his story here i hope i aint stealing anything
Why did i decided to move to linux? Windows is getting slower with win11 + the microsoft recall thing, (tho windows 10 solved this issue. am prob gonna fully switch linux once windows 10 ends support, and i dont think windows 12 is gonna be any better and idk why am considering buying macos as a secondary os.) and also Linux gives you more frames as well in gaming.
The story: So i wanted to try Linux, the first distro i ever used if you count is Ubuntu, i hardly used it in the vm, but really it was Linux mint, i loved the speed,simplicity,etc i would download distros on my brothers laptop when he takes my gaming pc bcs how windows 11 is slow on his laptop i also used tails os(on my main pc) and some nix (didnt like Nixos config when i was new) and i used Tails os as well and i didnt know why discord isnt working :) i found my favorite distro: Cachyos ,some grauda linux (a little bloated sadly i only used it for 2 days before switching back to cachyos since A nvidia driver problem has been solved), btw i also tried building regular arch, and use bazzite but regular arch was too hard + building regular arch is hard i also love the aur, And i also tried blendos yeah the installer kept overriding the usb :P.
My main Pc specs i used linux on: intel I3 12100f Gtx 1650 16gb of ram (Originally 8gb but suddenly the other 8gb stick decided it wants to work again after Distrohopping to Cachyos)
The laptop specs(used on Linux Mint and Nixos): i3 115g1 4gb ram integrated graphics
How is my experience going: Its alright. but i wish app support improves ngl, below is my experience with (more?) apps and games.
Gaming: Its not that bad most of my library on steam works fine under proton AND natively, and i didn't test my epic games library, but sadly i suffered with some games: Roblox (I can use sober but no thanks, dont wanna use a android emu to play roblox, but ngl i wanna quit roblox due to the moderation thingy, its a fun game tho on my dualbooted windows ssd.) ~~Fortnite~~ (The anticheat. not a problem anymore, i quit it too boring. i would dual boot windows to play Roblox/and this game as well.) Gmod (I need to run a script to fix it but it rarely happens for me and when am in game no problems so far) Beam.NG drive (Lags on some maps and i need x11 to play it with Vulkan render and native linux build that is hidden in the files no steam integration and you cannot add mods due to a "network issue" but ig firewall? due to Cachyos auto enabling that.) Discord (Idk if this counts as gaming but i bearly had any problems except with streaming i rarely stream so its fine) fact ig: On my previous Lemmy account, when i instance hopped. i even ask help with gaming.
Nvidia: Tbh its not that horrible like people call(+The linux creator) Nvidia, its actually good on linux (even on Wayland)
Web dev: I like to web dev my personal site on Vscode and thats on Linux, Nothing to say here its going great. and i use git to publish it to codeberg and it will be displayed on the world wide web.
Content creation: Tbh i never really tried it, bcs am too lazy to make videos on Odysee/Peertube and originally youtube, But sadly affinity is not on Linux(I can use photopeas once my 6month trial of affinity ends), they say its hard and they had struggles porting it from mac to windows as well. and Davinci resolve(Which i used on windows) its not that bad like people say. but sadly there is no AAC support, but Mp3 is supported, Tho i had way more trouble on fedora i needed distrobox.
small issues with some apps (all catagories) Whatsapp(Tbh i can use the web version i rarely/almost never call people on whatsapp)
For the beginning, I would recommend you to stick to a more popular Distro, like Mint, Fedora, Debian, and therelike.
Many niche distros, like CachyOS, are more tailored towards advanced users who know what they're up to, or for special use cases, like TailsOS for extreme privacy (e.g. buying drugs, journalism, etc., it's also commonly installed on an USB stick for portability and non-persistency).
With Fedora or Mint you get way more community support and resources in case something doesn't work as expected for you, which it certainly will some time.
They're also (mostly) identical performance wise.
For gaming, I would recommend you Bazzite, which gives you a first class gaming experience, and is extremely robust due to it being a completely new kind of distro. It also has the Nvidia-drivers already baked in if chosen, which makes it more reliable.
But regular Fedora (especially the KDE spin) or other common distros are perfectly fine too for that.
oh yeah i tried bazzite before dont like the immutable nature and now i have more experience in linux and tbh i like cachyos gaming tweaks its based arch and stuff and i also forgot i tried building regular arch before i also love how cachyos gives the aur without having to build arch yourself and ik tails os is made for privacy i use it for tor also thanks for reminding me to uppdate some stuff
Discord: Their are custom clients like Vesktop that fix streaming on Linux and add features
Da Vinci: You can use this project for easier use, or just get Kdenlive which is fully supported on Linux
WhatsApp: If you do want to call people you could use Waydroid and install the android version, or if you don’t need calls but want background notifications you can use Zapzap
Discord: Their are custom clients like Vesktop that fix streaming on Linux and add features
Heard of it but as i mentioned the discord app is mostly fine and i might use the discord web browser app instead i only rlly use vesktop for streaming
Da Vinci: You can use this project for easier use, or just get Kdenlive which is fully supported on Linux
Thanks for that project and heard of kdenlive as well since yk i got resolve from the aur
WhatsApp: If you do want to call people you could use Waydroid and install the android version, or if you don’t need calls but want background notifications you can use Zapzap
heard of waydroid but not zapzap as i said its low importance aka minor issues but i think am gonna word it out diff
Now for the first time scientists researching the brain of a fly have identified the position, shape and connections of every single one of its 130,000 cells and 50 million connections.
It's the most detailed analysis of the brain of an adult animal ever produced.
One leading brain specialist independent of the new research described the breakthrough as a "huge leap" in our understanding of our own brains.
So this is basically a physical map of the cells and their interconnections. We also know quite a lot about how the individual cells function.
So... if we simulated the behavior of all those cells and connected them as described by this map, and basically just turned it on... would it behave like a fly? Would it respond to stimuli as if it were a fly?
The computer needed for that would probably be the size of a building and eat electricity like candy, but it'd be interesting - the functional brain of a living creature reproduced in software.
Your last point makes me think of the picture of that 2MB hard drive from yesteryear. That black and white one where they are getting the massive thing (bigger than my fridge freezer) onto a truck, if I'm remembering right.
Imagine if the computers needed, in a couple decades, will be much smaller and capable.
Also connections to nerve cells are not constant. Some connections are strong and the nerve cell is more likely to activate when triggered through one of them while other are weak and need stronger signal to trigger (someone who knows biology can rephrase this part better). so with 50 million connections of varying strength simulation becomes much more difficult.
The other thing is that 99% of the time the brain respond to outside stimuli. You see something, signal is sent to brain and brain make decision based on the input.
Also connections to nerve cells are not constant. Some connections are strong and the nerve cell is more likely to activate when triggered through one of them while other are weak and need stronger signal to trigger (someone who knows biology can rephrase this part better). so with 50 million connections of varying strength simulation becomes much more difficult.
I don't see why adding weights to the connections would be particularly difficult. Even if the weights need to vary over time or by other conditions, that could be included in the simulation. It might be a bit more complex, but current neural network systems already do variable connection strength between nodes.
The other thing is that 99% of the time the brain respond to outside stimuli. You see something, signal is sent to brain and brain make decision based on the input.
In this case you have absolutely zero input.
This should be very easy - if we're simulating the presence of sensory neurons then we can certainly simulate some input stimuli on the
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Also connections to nerve cells are not constant. Some connections are strong and the nerve cell is more likely to activate when triggered through one of them while other are weak and need stronger signal to trigger (someone who knows biology can rephrase this part better). so with 50 million connections of varying strength simulation becomes much more difficult.
I don't see why adding weights to the connections would be particularly difficult. Even if the weights need to vary over time or by other conditions, that could be included in the simulation. It might be a bit more complex, but current neural network systems already do variable connection strength between nodes.
The other thing is that 99% of the time the brain respond to outside stimuli. You see something, signal is sent to brain and brain make decision based on the input.
In this case you have absolutely zero input.
This should be very easy - if we're simulating the presence of sensory neurons then we can certainly simulate some input stimuli on them.
Simulate it how? you need an initial state.
I don't see why this would be true, and anyway how do you know that the connection map doesn't already represent an initial state?
The app run fine but ui are mass up and unusable because of missing themes engines, and it crash (I got segmentation fault) if I try to change theme to system theme it's fine 3 days ago
Gimp is likely still using gtk2, which means you need a theme that supports gtk2. That's probably old and un-maintained, since gtk2 has been End-Of-Life for a while now. gimp 3.0 is approaching though.
Is gtk not backward compatible with older version?
New main versions of software usually is not compatible with old versions. That's one of the points of new main versions. You cannot load Qt 3 themes into Qt 6 either.
Please specify: - What distribution - What architecture - What desktop environment - What you have done so far to try to resolve the problem (e.g have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling the package?)
Based on your host name, I'm assuming it's Arch. From what I can tell from the terminal output, Ghostscript is missing (thus the libgs.so error). Maybe try reinstalling it with Pacman. Did you update your system and it somehow got autoremoved (I don't know Arch that well)?
I installed ghostscript and it doesn't give me error anymore but it still crash if I try to change theme (script-fu:2516): LibGimpBase-WARNING **: 14:13:54.547: script-fu: gimp_wire_read(): error Segmentation fault (core dumped)
What themes do you have installed, and which theme are you trying to switch to? Also, can you confirm what distro and DE you're using as well as any major customizations so I can try and replicate the problem in an Arch VM, please?
Hi, it's Arch Linux and for gtk application style it's "Materia-Blackout", I don't have any major customization except I hide title bar in "Breeze Window Decoration" I set "Window-Specific Overrides" to ".*" and tick "Hide Window title bar" I also use global menu and "Application title bar" widget
Imagine the amount of dependencies for a project like that... That would fix the seg fault memory issue, but only to end up with an out of HD space issue.
Ebba Busch festade med gängbossar och antisemiter. Ebba Busch som är vice statsminister var på bröllop. Högerextremisten Jimmie Åkessons bröllop. Där var också den norska antisemiten och proryska aktivisten Rebecca Mistereggen.
A climate modeling downscaling method developed by MIT scientists leverages a machine-learning technique called adversarial learning to produce simulations faster and at finer resolutions, making them relevant to use on local levels for assessing ris…
Kontroller tyder på omfattande avfallsbrottslighet. I alla fall enligt polisen. Myndighetsgemensamma kontroller av avfallstransporter i sex kommuner i landet påvisar stora brister. Enligt polisen indikerar det förekomst av en omfattande avfallsbrottslighet och arbetslivskriminalitet inom avfallsbranschen.
Need to let loose a primal scream without collecting footnotes first? Have a sneer percolating in your system but not enough time/energy to make a whole post about it? Go forth and be mid: Welcome to the Stubsack, your first port of call for learning fresh Awful you’ll near-instantly regret.
Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.
If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cut’n’paste it into its own post — there’s no quota for posting and the bar really isn’t that high.
The post Xitter web has spawned soo many “esoteric” right wing freaks, but there’s no appropriate sneer-space for them. I’m talking redscare-ish, reality challenged “culture critics” who write about everything but understand nothing. I’m talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. They’re inescapable at this point, yet I don’t see them mocked (as much as they should be)
Like, there was one dude a whil
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Need to let loose a primal scream without collecting footnotes first? Have a sneer percolating in your system but not enough time/energy to make a whole post about it? Go forth and be mid: Welcome to the Stubsack, your first port of call for learning fresh Awful you’ll near-instantly regret.
Any awful.systems sub may be subsneered in this subthread, techtakes or no.
If your sneer seems higher quality than you thought, feel free to cut’n’paste it into its own post — there’s no quota for posting and the bar really isn’t that high.
The post Xitter web has spawned soo many “esoteric” right wing freaks, but there’s no appropriate sneer-space for them. I’m talking redscare-ish, reality challenged “culture critics” who write about everything but understand nothing. I’m talking about reply-guys who make the same 6 tweets about the same 3 subjects. They’re inescapable at this point, yet I don’t see them mocked (as much as they should be)
Like, there was one dude a while back who insisted that women couldn’t be surgeons because they didn’t believe in the moon or in stars? I think each and every one of these guys is uniquely fucked up and if I can’t escape them, I would love to sneer at them.
Example: the article Leninist historiography was entirely written by AI and previously included a list of completely fake sources in Russian and Hungarian at the bottom of the page.
App developers think that’s a bogus argument. Mr. Bier told me that data he had seen from start-ups he advised suggested that contact sharing had dropped significantly since the iOS 18 changes went into effect, and that for some apps, the number of users sharing 10 or fewer contacts had increased as much as 25 percent.
aww, does the widdle app's business model collapse completely once it can't harvest data? how sad
this reinforces a suspicion that I've had for a while: the only reason most people put up with any of this shit is because it's an all or nothing choice and they don't know the full impact (because it's intentionally obscured). the moment you give them an overt choice that makes them think about it, turns out most are actually not fine with the state of affairs
Hurricanes like Helene may indirectly cause deaths for years. Stress, pollution and a loss of infrastructure could all contribute to tropical cyclone fatalities.
Last week Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) announced that he had introduced legislation to block a $20 billion arms sale to Israel.
The Joint Resolutions of Disapproval would 👉prevent the delivery of 💥offensive 💥weapons that the State Department approved in August, just days before ceasefire talks were set to resume.
The package includes fighter jets and advanced air-to-air missiles.
“Sadly, and illegally, much of the carnage in Gaza has been carried out with U.S.-provided military equipment,” said Sanders in a statement.
🔥“Providing more offensive weapons to continue this disastrous war would violate U.S. and international law. The sales would reward Netanyahu’s extremist government, even as it continues to cause massive destruction in Gaza, undermine the prospects of a ceasefire deal that would secure the release of the hostages, and advance its effort to illegally annex the West Bank.
Congress must act to save lives, uphold U.S. and international law, and stand up for U.S. interests.
... show more
Last week Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) announced that he had introduced legislation to block a $20 billion arms sale to Israel.
The Joint Resolutions of Disapproval would 👉prevent the delivery of 💥offensive 💥weapons that the State Department approved in August, just days before ceasefire talks were set to resume.
The package includes fighter jets and advanced air-to-air missiles.
“Sadly, and illegally, much of the carnage in Gaza has been carried out with U.S.-provided military equipment,” said Sanders in a statement.
🔥“Providing more offensive weapons to continue this disastrous war would violate U.S. and international law. The sales would reward Netanyahu’s extremist government, even as it continues to cause massive destruction in Gaza, undermine the prospects of a ceasefire deal that would secure the release of the hostages, and advance its effort to illegally annex the West Bank.
Congress must act to save lives, uphold U.S. and international law, and stand up for U.S. interests.
We must end our complicity in Israel’s illegal and indiscriminate military campaign, which has caused mass civilian death and suffering.”
The effort was cosponsored by Senators Jeff #Merkley (D-OR), Peter #Welch (D-VT), and Brian #Schatz (D-HI).
Listen, I'm all for open sourcing stuff and I'm all for the fediverse and all. I just don't understand why one would want a fediverse tiktok.
Short form content is addictive af and doesn't add anything of substance to society.
Video hosting is expensive. Peertube is already struggling. How do you expect to financially sustain video hosting that is addictive to the user (which means more consumption) without running ads? Paywalling it won't be an option due to the network effect as well.
I have hundreds of short form videos which are designed to uplift, encourage, and speak positively about mental health issues. I’ve had lots of people tell me that my videos in some small way encourage them to take the next step in their mental health.
In other words, it’s not the form of the video that matters, it’s the content.
As for the cost of the server, I think the videos will expire after a certain amount of time. Something like Snapchat.
The great thing about the Fediverse is that it offers options. Is this going to be exactly like TikTok? Of course not. Will it serve a purpose for some? Time will tell.
I don't know what to make of this. Regular tiktok just is sooooo offputting to me. The 50x overlays. The voiceovers which are the basis of the content, with the video that has NOTHING to do with the content. The chinese spying. It's all just very bad.
But then I remember a federated version would be.......different. I can't imagine it would be like tiktok with text overlays. I can't imagine the content would be similar either. It'll be like "here's the better way to sudo your linux....."
Which, as someone who doesn't care about linux, I'd find it less offensive, but still wouldn't care about it.
It's a bit hard to imagine the fediverse crowd being huge on a tiktok-like platform. I think it's an important development, even just as a proof of concept, but it would have to attract an audience from a whole different target audience, and one that might have less patience for technical hiccups.
I think video content is also fundamentally more asymmetrical - from a few influencers to a large number of consumers. Which is probably what the fediverse is heading towards as well, but it's not what it does best at the moment.
I don't think I'm the target audience of this, and I'm not sure it'll be a success. But I think it's a very interesting and important development anyway.
Well peertube is struggling already so thats a valid question. Idk if they using peertube style bitorrent video delivery that might help offload the cost a little.
I'm very intrigued, Dan Sup is one of the most interesting people working in the fediverse these days, and I'm very curious about anything he puts forward.
IMO a very small amount of storage should be free but after that the user needs to pay. It's the right thing to do for hosts and for the environment. If content creators need massive amounts of video then that will incentivize them to make money on it.
The only people left out are small, niche channels that have quality or important content but don't make much money. Maybe they could be cut special deals by the hosts / donors.
Big creators make a ton of money from their videos. I'm fine with the Fediverse adding ads, or creators doing sponsorships. We need a separation of concerns. Fediverse is removing centralized corporate control.
We need a way to get good content creators money on the Fediverse.
It's kinda the entire point for a lot of the users and uploaders, that and getting paid to continue the cycle of creating more content.
If you're expecting us, as-in, the federated populace on Lemmy and Mastodon to use it, I dunno, man. Sharing personal content is a very rare use case here. We usually stick to news and memes.
Then again, communities that are rather reliant on a performance like fishing, sports, guitar, drums, and skill toys like yoyos might get a use out of having a safe public place to upload themselves without outside influence.
A lot of content on Tiktok is about presenting content rather the person. It can be similar to Youtube, but more accessible for beginners content creators now that a lot of Youtubers have a professional setup, and barrier to entry is much higher.
I mean I know it was a hyperbole. There are negative comments in the thread, though. They mostly don't like it for it's short video form and algorithm I think.
Lilbits: PineNote, Office 2024, Snapdragon X2 Elite, and a fanless Intel N100 mini PC made for networking
The PineNote is a tablet with a Rockchip RK3566 processor, 4GB of RAM, 128GB of storage, and a 10.3 inch, 1404 x 1872 pixel E Ink display with support for pressure-sensitive EMR pen input. First introduced in 2021, the tablet began shipping to early adopters in early 2022. But it’s been unavailable for purchase for a while now.
That’s because the pace of software development was slow. […]
U.S. tropical cyclones, including hurricanes, indirectly cause thousands of deaths for nearly 15 years after a storm. Understanding why could help minimize future deaths from hazards fueled by climate change.
One thing they didn’t mention but I’ve seen on the news before is that flood waters often contain carcinogenic/other polluting chemicals leeched from the ground, and other waste streams. How much of that gets left in people’s soil (or wells if they have a well system), or even in their house after rebuilding?
With diffusion being a foundational aspect of solutes mixing in solutions, the water should have an even distribution of the contaminants. However, the tidal force of water associated with a storm surge probably throws a wrench in the plan here. But generally, it's evenly spread throughout and will be found in relatively even amounts everywhere the water settles.
It'll be in the air too. Anything in the soil will become dust in the air for years. It'll get kicked into the air every time a lawn is mowed, a hole gets dug, a dry season occurs, etc
Tidy- Offline semantic Text-to-Image and Image-to-Image search on Android powered by quantized state-of-the-art vision-language pretrained CLIP model and ONNX Runtime inference engine
Features * Text-to-Image search: Find photos using natural language descriptions. * Image-to-Image search: Discover visually similar images. * Automatic indexing: New photos are automatically added to the index. * Fast and efficient: Get search results quickly. * Privacy-focused: Your photos never leave your device. * No internet required: Works perfectly offline. * Powered by OpenAI's CLIP model: Uses advanced AI for accurate results.
Offline semantic Text-to-Image and Image-to-Image search on Android powered by quantized state-of-the-art vision-language pretrained CLIP model and ONNX Runtime inference engine - slavabarkov/tidy
Just tried it out, works great! I was able to do some basic searches and most results mad sense
Two cool features would be: - ability to delete photos. I could see searching and deleting a good workflow - if possible, see what tags the images have to see how CLIP output works
This doesn't sound like the normal behavior. From the app description: "This indexing process may take some time, but it's a one-time event. Once this initial indexing process is complete, the app will store the index on your device, and any new photos you add to your photo library will be automatically added to the index on the subsequent app launches."
If your experience is different you may let the dev know so they can fix it.
Doing that I can see the loading bar for half a second when reopening the app. As stated on the app webpage this is certainly to update the database with any new images but it doesn't rebuild the entire database from scratch. Maybe your cache gets deleted automatically when you close the app on your device. Make sure you have no other app that may do so.
This week's news: - Threads degrades their activitypub integration, delaying posts by 15 minutes before they appear in the rest of the fediverse - Website League is a new ActivityPub-based Island network, outside of the rest of the fediverse - Ghost discusses their beta plans and pricing.
This week's news: - Threads degrades their activitypub integration, delaying posts by 15 minutes before they appear in the rest of the fediverse - Website League is a new ActivityPub-based Island network, outside of the rest of the fediverse - Ghost discusses their beta plans and pricing.
Threads degrades their fediverse integration, a separate ActivityPub-based Island Network launches, and more news about Ghost and ActivityPub.
Threads delays posts for 15 minutes before federating
Threads’ latest update has degraded the value of their fediverse integration. Posts made on Threads will now always be delayed by 15 minutes before they are delivered to the rest of the fediverse, if fediverse sharing is turned on. The 15 minute delay is added for the purpose of post editing; posts on Threads can now be edited for 15 minutes after they are created. This used to be 5 minutes, both as a window for editing posts as well as the delay to be send out to the rest of the fediverse.
A 15 minute delay is a long time in microblogging, and significantly impacts things like breaking news, and live-posting sports events. It also meaningfully impacts the ability to have a back-and-forth conversation with people in a comment section. The delay itself is already an issue, but things get even more problematic when taken into consideration that during live events, Threads posts with a 15 minute delay are now mixed with fediverse posts without a delay and presented as happening during the same time. This was already noticeable during yesterday’s U.S. VP debate, an event where people use microblogging for the real-time reaction. But part of the real-time reactions was actually 15 minutes delayed, while another part was not, which creates even more confusing experience. A Threads engineer says that they will want to solve this problem ‘eventually’, but that it will probably come after Threads has implemented full bi-directional interoperability.
This news is not a great start for the Social Web Foundation either, which launched last week with criticism from the wider fediverse developer community for having Meta as one of their supporting members. There is a distrust of Meta’s intention within the fediverse, and them degrading their fediverse integration is likely not helping.
Website League
The Website League is a new social networking project that has arisen out of the demise of Cohost. Cohost was a social media site for the last 2 years, that has shut down, and on October 1st the website entered read-only mode. Cohost had a dedicated user base who appreciated the community that they’ve build on the site. Website League is a new project by users of Cohost (the Cohost staff is not involved) to build a successor network in Cohost’s place.
What makes Website League stand out is that it is a federated Island Network, described by Website League themselves as ‘a bunch of smallish websites that talk to each other’. This federated social network is using ActivityPub, but deliberately does not connect to the rest of the fediverse. Instead, it is an allowlist-based form of federation, where only websites/servers who agree to the Website League’s central set of rules can join.
The Website League has a big focus community organisation and governance. Even though the project is very young, and launched under time pressure of the deadline of Cohost closing, there are already multiple systems in place with an active Loomio for Stewardship, a wiki and more. The Website League provides a different vision of what a federated social network build on top of ActivityPub can look like, and I’m very curious to see where the project will go.
Ghost and Fedify
Ghost published their latest update on their work on adding ActivityPub, with more information about their upcoming beta. Ghost is slowly starting their beta process soon, making it clear that this is indeed a testing program, and data loss should be expected for people who are participating. They also said more about the performance and scaling of Ghost and ActivityPub. Sending out a newsletter over ActivityPub to 5000 subscribers turned out to need 10 servers, which indicates how resource-intensive and expensive ActivityPub can be. As a result, ActivityPub followers will count towards Ghost Pro billing, as Ghost Pro charges based on the number of members an account has.
Fedify, an open-source framework that simplifies building federated server apps, is now officially in version 1.0. Ghost’s ActivityPub integration is build on top of Fedify, and Ghost is sponsoring the Fedify developer as well.
The Mastodon server strangeobjects.space will shut down, and in the announcement post the admins explain the emotional cost and impact that comes with being a server admin.
This week's news: - Threads degrades their activitypub integration, delaying posts by 15 minutes before they appear in the rest of the fediverse - Website League is a new ActivityPub-based Island network, outside of the rest of the fediverse - Ghost discusses their beta plans and pricing.
This week's news: - Threads degrades their activitypub integration, delaying posts by 15 minutes before they appear in the rest of the fediverse - Website League is a new ActivityPub-based Island network, outside of the rest of the fediverse - Ghost discusses their beta plans and pricing.
Threads degrades their fediverse integration, a separate ActivityPub-based Island Network launches, and more news about Ghost and ActivityPub.
Threads delays posts for 15 minutes before federating
Threads’ latest update has degraded the value of their fediverse integration. Posts made on Threads will now always be delayed by 15 minutes before they are delivered to the rest of the fediverse, if fediverse sharing is turned on. The 15 minute delay is added for the purpose of post editing; posts on Threads can now be edited for 15 minutes after they are created. This used to be 5 minutes, both as a window for editing posts as well as the delay to be send out to the rest of the fediverse.
A 15 minute delay is a long time in microblogging, and significantly impacts things like breaking news, and live-posting sports events. It also meaningfully impacts the ability to have a back-and-forth conversation with people in a comment section. The delay itself is already an issue, but things get even more problematic when taken into consideration that during live events, Threads posts with a 15 minute delay are now mixed with fediverse posts without a delay and presented as happening during the same time. This was already noticeable during yesterday’s U.S. VP debate, an event where people use microblogging for the real-time reaction. But part of the real-time reactions was actually 15 minutes delayed, while another part was not, which creates even more confusing experience. A Threads engineer says that they will want to solve this problem ‘eventually’, but that it will probably come after Threads has implemented full bi-directional interoperability.
This news is not a great start for the Social Web Foundation either, which launched last week with criticism from the wider fediverse developer community for having Meta as one of their supporting members. There is a distrust of Meta’s intention within the fediverse, and them degrading their fediverse integration is likely not helping.
Website League
The Website League is a new social networking project that has arisen out of the demise of Cohost. Cohost was a social media site for the last 2 years, that has shut down, and on October 1st the website entered read-only mode. Cohost had a dedicated user base who appreciated the community that they’ve build on the site. Website League is a new project by users of Cohost (the Cohost staff is not involved) to build a successor network in Cohost’s place.
What makes Website League stand out is that it is a federated Island Network, described by Website League themselves as ‘a bunch of smallish websites that talk to each other’. This federated social network is using ActivityPub, but deliberately does not connect to the rest of the fediverse. Instead, it is an allowlist-based form of federation, where only websites/servers who agree to the Website League’s central set of rules can join.
The Website League has a big focus community organisation and governance. Even though the project is very young, and launched under time pressure of the deadline of Cohost closing, there are already multiple systems in place with an active Loomio for Stewardship, a wiki and more. The Website League provides a different vision of what a federated social network build on top of ActivityPub can look like, and I’m very curious to see where the project will go.
Ghost and Fedify
Ghost published their latest update on their work on adding ActivityPub, with more information about their upcoming beta. Ghost is slowly starting their beta process soon, making it clear that this is indeed a testing program, and data loss should be expected for people who are participating. They also said more about the performance and scaling of Ghost and ActivityPub. Sending out a newsletter over ActivityPub to 5000 subscribers turned out to need 10 servers, which indicates how resource-intensive and expensive ActivityPub can be. As a result, ActivityPub followers will count towards Ghost Pro billing, as Ghost Pro charges based on the number of members an account has.
Fedify, an open-source framework that simplifies building federated server apps, is now officially in version 1.0. Ghost’s ActivityPub integration is build on top of Fedify, and Ghost is sponsoring the Fedify developer as well.
The Mastodon server strangeobjects.space will shut down, and in the announcement post the admins explain the emotional cost and impact that comes with being a server admin.
KillingTimeItself
in reply to db0 • • •ah yes, the age old tale of "the internet sucks and people are stupid"
If you've ever tried hosting a web based solution you'll know exactly what i mean. The entirety of web hosting is a disaster. The entire mountain of web code is a nightmare, and the collection of website based frameworks do nothing more than burn electricity and man hours to create a fucking button on a screen.
as for discord, i haven't puzzled that one out yet, i don't understand. Probably lazy developers and the community aspect, it's a forum, but free, and worse. And now you can shitpost with random people you don't even know!
Personally, i believe that enshittifcation is an inevitability. You put somebody in a room with something, and when you take them out, that thing will somehow have gotten more complex, and thus probably worse.
Croquette
in reply to KillingTimeItself • • •Discord, at one point, was better than a lot of other app on the market, and they were one of the first where you could just create an account and join any group, for free.
It became the standard, and now we're stuck with that shit
KillingTimeItself
in reply to Croquette • • •lambalicious
in reply to KillingTimeItself • • •KillingTimeItself
in reply to lambalicious • • •Croquette
in reply to KillingTimeItself • • •In an ideal world yes, but we've learned nothing from the Dotcom bubble, or the 2008 housing bubble.
If there is money to be made, history will repeat itself.
KillingTimeItself
in reply to Croquette • • •throbbing_banjo
in reply to KillingTimeItself • • •I'm only on it because my Linux distro's dev uses it for communication for some reason, but from what I can tell, it's just a locked-down IRC client you can buy emojis and shit on.
ampersandrew
in reply to throbbing_banjo • • •KillingTimeItself
in reply to throbbing_banjo • • •KillingTimeItself
Unknown parent • • •this is unironically such a big problem, there are great voice chatting solutions, mumble, and the handful of other ones that exist out there.
There are basically 0 good usable video conferencing/sharing softwares out there. The same goes for desktop streaming. If we just focused like, a little bit more of our energy on these two things, i think the world would unironically get better. It's 2024, h264 runs on a CPU like nothing, why haven't we figured out how to do these things yet?
The ones that do exist are likely to be web based, and thus, webRTC, the dreaded behemoth of both web support and also, generally poor implementation. I just want mumble but with support for video streaming, how hard is it >:(
KillingTimeItself
Unknown parent • • •it's convenient, also it'd be nice if it had the feature capability.
Mumble is great, but if there was something like mumble, that implemented video sharing, that would be miles better, though a lot of people would probably still use mumble, as it's fine.
From what i've dug into, basically every video sharing capable setup is based on web technology, and i simply refuse to go near web technology unless i WANT to use a web browser. It's just, worse, in so many ways.
finitebanjo
Unknown parent • • •Until that API nonsense I was always using old.reddit because the redesign was ass.
Discord is cool tho, better than skype gui for sure.
EmperorHenry
in reply to db0 • • •Chadus_Maximus
in reply to EmperorHenry • • •Stern
in reply to EmperorHenry • • •lambalicious
in reply to EmperorHenry • • •Fillicia
in reply to EmperorHenry • • •Noobnarski
in reply to EmperorHenry • • •Draconic NEO
in reply to EmperorHenry • • •Plenty of console Homebrew and general gaming forums are still around. Like GBAtemp and ResetEra.
I think all forms have really been about niche things for the most part. There were some general purpose forms but most of them focused around some Central subject that is core to their identity.
Truly general purpose platforms that attempt to be about everything weren't really a thing until social media, with digg and Reddit.
lambalicious
in reply to KillingTimeItself • • •It's not about the hardware. (Not like it's that ubiquitous anyway; I'm daily driving a machine from 2017)
I'm going to guess part of it is because for the things that matter to the people who do end up having to code, test and distribute stuff, something like "seamless screen sharing" or "video conference" doesnt really matter.
And IMO, that's good if we want to Recover the Web.
The idea behind being in something like a jabber chatroom, or a web forum, is that I can pay attention to 12 channels (or whatever) at a time, read one or two, reply in three others, etc. Text is so un-invasive that I can just explore without bothering myself or anyone else.
In comparison, something like audio chat or video chat is more presence-encompassing. You can't really "push to talk" three different things to three chatrooms at about once, and you likely can but won't want to listen to three chatrooms f
... show moreIt's not about the hardware. (Not like it's that ubiquitous anyway; I'm daily driving a machine from 2017)
I'm going to guess part of it is because for the things that matter to the people who do end up having to code, test and distribute stuff, something like "seamless screen sharing" or "video conference" doesnt really matter.
And IMO, that's good if we want to Recover the Web.
The idea behind being in something like a jabber chatroom, or a web forum, is that I can pay attention to 12 channels (or whatever) at a time, read one or two, reply in three others, etc. Text is so un-invasive that I can just explore without bothering myself or anyone else.
In comparison, something like audio chat or video chat is more presence-encompassing. You can't really "push to talk" three different things to three chatrooms at about once, and you likely can but won't want to listen to three chatrooms full of people at the same time. For something like a videoconference you not only need a camera, but a good behind-you because not only who knows who or what will be showing back there.
In the end, something like a simple jabber-like chatroom is far easier and more productive to work on, even before we get to the coding part.
Not to mention: this is computer stuff. No one really likes to work on "debt", which is what "Foo has to have 'screen sharing' because Discord has it" ultimately boils down to.
lambalicious
Unknown parent • • •Honestly the "having to sign up" part would be trivial to solve if topical forums just globally adopted OpenID sign-in or similar. No need to have one account per community if you already have (or "are") an account in the World.
But even then, there's a point to having to go through a sign-up process. At least some sort of vetting. We have seen how far have fallen all the communities that have ever relaxed sign-ups (as another comment in this thread shows, there was once a time when FB only allowed educated people in).
toastal
in reply to KillingTimeItself • • •Well Discord, Slack, & others are web tech too so it’s not like avoiding it is easy. If I have to use these services, I would prefer it be in the browser’s sandbox.
Even still, almost all debug, troubleshoot, pairing session I have done in the last 4 years have been done over Upterm or Tmate, which is much, much lighter on bandwidth & not crushed by video compression.
Stern
in reply to db0 • • •db0
in reply to Stern • • •unemployedclaquer
in reply to db0 • • •stringere
in reply to unemployedclaquer • • •ChopSuey
in reply to Stern • • •Boomer Humor Doomergod
in reply to Stern • • •Flamekebab
Unknown parent • • •Dee
in reply to db0 • • •db0
in reply to Dee • • •Dee
in reply to db0 • • •true. I didn't consider that. That would could work. Lemmy is a lot more advanced in that regard. Currently the best ideas are Discord and give up, and the original owners are done with the idea, but I could try and create a spiritual successor on here. Lemmy suffers a bit from the same isues as Forums with lack of people, but I only need to convince the OGs. I need to think about that, and a forum from 2004 whose software is a decade out of date is easy to beat in that regard
Also thanks for creating this awesome instance.
Draconic NEO
in reply to Dee • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Draconic NEO • • •I was going to bring up this post, but it's actually yours
lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/28227815…
Draconic NEO
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •ChopSuey
in reply to db0 • • •Boomer Humor Doomergod
in reply to ChopSuey • • •RagingRobot
in reply to Boomer Humor Doomergod • • •🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 ℹ️
in reply to RagingRobot • • •ChopSuey
in reply to Boomer Humor Doomergod • • •grrgyle
Unknown parent • • •Croquette
Unknown parent • • •Corpos are spending countless resources to infiltrate anything with as much as a iota of traction so that they can bleed the cow cash dry and sell its carcass for money.
Even if you distrust the corpos and want them to die, the majority of the population has so much trouble just surviving that its hard to raise up against that bullshit
dubious
in reply to db0 • • •leadore
in reply to dubious • • •A_Random_Idiot
in reply to dubious • • •There were plenty of free forum hosts back in the day.
But then social media came out, and everyone got addicted to the gamified dopamine mechanics like upvotes and shit. So now everything has to have upvotes, or likes, or whatever other stupid bullshit shit that has absolutely ruined human interaction and discourse and is single handedly to blame for the extremity in modern discourse, because the need to drive clicks and upvotes leads to extreme polarization where no common sense, honest discussion can be held.
because you either 100% agree with me (upvote) or you are a baby killing bastard who disagrees with me (downvote), and there can be no middle ground! /s
plantedworld
Unknown parent • • •JamesFire
Unknown parent • • •They're not search engine indexable though.
You can't view it without logging in.
KillingTimeItself
in reply to toastal • • •yeah, and discord slack and basically everything based on electron is a fresh hell.
I love having three separate instances of chrome running the background while just using my computer, such that they all consume an entire gigabyte of ram for no particular reason.
TBF i wouldn't do much if any troubleshooting over RDP or anything similar, i use SSH for all that stuff lol. I'm just confused that nobody has put together a "relatively" functional version of this yet, it seems like it would be prime realestate.
buzz86us
in reply to db0 • • •A_Random_Idiot
in reply to buzz86us • • •There were plenty of free forum hosts back in the day. (edit: just did a search and there are still free forum hosts)
But then social media came out, and everyone got addicted to the gamified dopamine mechanics like upvotes and shit. So now everything has to have upvotes, or likes, or whatever other stupid bullshit shit that has absolutely ruined human interaction and discourse and is single handedly to blame for the extremity in modern discourse, because the need to drive clicks and upvotes leads to extreme polarization where no common sense, honest discussion can be held.
because you either 100% agree with me (upvote) or you are a baby killing bastard who disagrees with me (downvote), and there can be no middle ground! /s
Socialist Mormon Satanist
in reply to A_Random_Idiot • • •Dempf
in reply to A_Random_Idiot • • •Even with a free forum host, it's difficult to keep things running for a long time.
Awhile back I was unsatisfied with how quickly my (new) furniture was degrading, and found a furniture forum run by a guy in the biz. So much knowledge on there about different furniture and how to actually find quality stuff that will last decades.
The owner retired this week, and he had been paying for an IT contract to do basic maintenance / upgrades on the forum (I think he started on a free host, but as it got bigger he eventually had to move it). He needed IT help basically to apply security patches and do upgrades. He's stated that he no longer plans to pay for the maintenance contract. I'm guessing the forum will disappear soon.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Dempf • • •ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝 • • •KillingTimeItself
in reply to lambalicious • • •this definitely makes sense in the OSS community, but i feel like someone should've already done it as a semi pet project already. I know i would've done it.
that's an interesting take, but personally i think the web should stick to pretty much static web pages, the browser is turning into a secondary operating system, which is being run on an operating system, which is just, stupid.
Personally i don't think any of this stuff should be done over the web, period.
... show morethis definitely makes sense in the OSS community, but i feel like someone should've already done it as a semi pet project already. I know i would've done it.
that's an interesting take, but personally i think the web should stick to pretty much static web pages, the browser is turning into a secondary operating system, which is being run on an operating system, which is just, stupid.
Personally i don't think any of this stuff should be done over the web, period.
yeah, my main complaint though is that we do have things like jabber, this is already incredibly accessible, there is almost no need for expanding the current landscape because it's been around for like 30 years now.
no but that's not the immediate use case either, something like mumble is really nice if you're playing games with other people and just want to VOIP so you don't have to use a text chat, you can talk and play video games at the same time pretty easily. It's also nice if you just want to casually hang around other people without having to be physically near them, or at a keyboard typing on it constantly.
i mean, you don't need a camera, maybe in a professional setting, but in a casual setting, screensharing something to show someone else for example, you don't even need a camera.
this is fair, and tbh i don't even really want a discord clone, you could very easily just adapt one of the many existing text chat protocols IRC being the most obvious, and VOIP is basically a solved problem, that's not hard either. Mumble has a pretty good low latency implementation of it, but you don't always need low latency. Video sharing/video conferencing is harder, but we have things like youtube and netflix, so the actual video streaming part isn't the hard thing. We have entire video manipulation libraries like FFMPEG as well, which will do everything you need it to do.
Mumble i think is the perfect example of a "minimalist" application, it does VOIP and it does it really well. I pretty much just want mumble but for video sharing and i'd be happy.
redirtSdeR
Unknown parent • • •it's hardly an upgrade from a threads only channel
marx2k
in reply to db0 • • •db0
in reply to marx2k • • •Draconic NEO
in reply to db0 • • •db0
in reply to Draconic NEO • • •Draconic NEO
in reply to db0 • • •marx2k
in reply to Draconic NEO • • •Draconic NEO
in reply to marx2k • • •Cyclohexane
Unknown parent • • •toastal
in reply to KillingTimeItself • • •nutsack
in reply to db0 • • •Blaze (he/him)
Unknown parent • • •Blaze (he/him)
Unknown parent • • •Blaze (he/him)
Unknown parent • • •I see this comment two days in the future.
We probably could promote using "New comments" more.
Blaze (he/him)
Unknown parent • • •Blaze (he/him)
Unknown parent • • •Blaze (he/him)
Unknown parent • • •Thank you for this constructive approach
VantaBrandon
in reply to db0 • • •lambalicious
in reply to KillingTimeItself • • •Pet project, yes; production-ready, that's a whole 'nother story.
Ultimately some things are too complex to deliver out on tem "just because". Such as web browsers, hence ATM there only exist about 2.
blue_berry
in reply to db0 • • •Well written, interesting article.
Really getting momentum from Reddit will be tough though. Our main advantage is that we have the rest of the Fediverse as a potential user base, and existing forum apps that also activate apub; reducing network effects. If the Fediverse has momentum, so has the threadiverse.
KillingTimeItself
in reply to lambalicious • • •to be fair, linux was also a pet project, until it wasn't. I'm not expecting people to drop zoom2 electric boogaloo over this or anything.
web browsers i could see, because they fucking suck, though there are a few alt browser projects currently going on, so there is that.
but something like VOIP and video sharing i would imagine is probably going to be magnitudes easier than something like a web browser.
KillingTimeItself
in reply to toastal • • •toastal
in reply to KillingTimeItself • • •KillingTimeItself
in reply to toastal • • •toastal
in reply to KillingTimeItself • • •Oh you could if so inclined run a Notcurses renderer for Minetest. l-m.dev/cs/hijacking-opengl-wi…
They already have a render for NEStopia + RetroArch lol
Draconic NEO
Unknown parent • • •ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝
Unknown parent • • •ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝
Unknown parent • • •They have !lemmybb@lemmy.ml
Lemmy is just a forum set to sort by new posts, not new comments.
sep
Unknown parent • • •I do not know what you talk about. I use screen sharing and voice chat daily on elements with our own hosted matrix server.
Edit: i felt wrong saying "voice chat" what even is that. I make regular calls and video calls with screen sharing in elements ;)
sep
Unknown parent • • •recklessengagement
in reply to sep • • •De_Narm
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Back on reddit, I mostly interacted with communities relating to JRPGs. There are some communities over here, but at most they post some trailers every now and then. There are also some more focussd communities about Dragon Quest, Xenoblade or SMT - all of them practically dead. I don't think there is an instance.
I could go over to a programming related one, the german instance or even one of the vegan instances for secondary 'interests', but those aren't things I often find myself posting about online to be honest. They seem to be mostly about memes anyways.
sep
in reply to recklessengagement • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to De_Narm • • •lemmy.zip/ could be a good fit for you. It's reliable, transparent (lemmy.zip/post/22004722?scroll…) and hosts communities about gaming and technology.
The main jrpg community is actually hosted there (!jrpg@lemmy.zip )
On the other hand, wherever the communities are, you can just subscribe to them whatever instance you are using, so it's not that big of a deal.
toastal
in reply to sep • • •Matrix servers chew up an order of magnitude more CPU/RAM which limits the places you can deploy it. The eventual consistency model makes storage balloon as every message, attachment, metadata must be copied to all nodes in a conversation which is resilient, but wasteful in duplicated content in practices which has historically caused many medium & larger servers to shut down due to the explosive just of storage (similar issues with Mastodon). That same model is why it takes on the order of minutes to just join a room or come back to a client that hasn’t been opened recently. Element X & new servers have to work so damn hard to work around asynchronously than fundamental decision to attempt to hide it from the sluggish UX but behind the scenes still too expensive. & since it is expensive to run in many vectors this causes folks to then move to the biggest servers that can handle the load which means the Matrix network is in actuality a small number of massive servers (most of which managed by Matrix.org) & a small number of tiny hobbyists running nodes of
... show moreMatrix servers chew up an order of magnitude more CPU/RAM which limits the places you can deploy it. The eventual consistency model makes storage balloon as every message, attachment, metadata must be copied to all nodes in a conversation which is resilient, but wasteful in duplicated content in practices which has historically caused many medium & larger servers to shut down due to the explosive just of storage (similar issues with Mastodon). That same model is why it takes on the order of minutes to just join a room or come back to a client that hasn’t been opened recently. Element X & new servers have to work so damn hard to work around asynchronously than fundamental decision to attempt to hide it from the sluggish UX but behind the scenes still too expensive. & since it is expensive to run in many vectors this causes folks to then move to the biggest servers that can handle the load which means the Matrix network is in actuality a small number of massive servers (most of which managed by Matrix.org) & a small number of tiny hobbyists running nodes of <10 users is practice. With so many users on Matrix.org-controlled instances (& again with eventual consistency), almost all data gets synced to their nodes make subpoenas a breeze.
A healthier network would have many fewer massive centralized nodes, medium-sized nodes, & the resource requirements would be low enough that more folks would be encouraged more often to run their own nodes they control so they aren’t required to trust an unknown serves operator. Meaning “just making an account on any public server” isn’t a great mode of operation for privacy—especially as with Matrix joining a medium-sized server will put them under a lot of strain causing them to throw in the tower & joining the few massive servers further exacerbating the centralization issue.
Copying the UX of Slack/Telegram/Discord in a decentralized manner is a fool's errand. Keeping the chat history for eternity is already a questionable call over using forums, but trying to distribute that out like a blockchain is so wasteful.
lukesmith.xyz/articles/matrix-…
freie-messenger.de/en/systemve…
process-one.net/blog/matrix-an…
sep
in reply to toastal • • •toastal
in reply to sep • • •KillingTimeItself
in reply to toastal • • •sep
in reply to toastal • • •Atleast for us having another vm among the thousands we host in our dc is not a huge cost, but i understand that is not the same for everyone.
toastal
in reply to KillingTimeItself • • •KillingTimeItself
in reply to toastal • • •kind of, like i said i play technical minecraft so the kind of stuff i'm accustomed to are the fact that repeaters schedule power events on a priority system changing based on what it's powering or not.
I will probably end up playing mineclone2/voxelibre at some point though, it's just not really a substitute here unfortunately.
toastal
in reply to sep • • •V3 has
chathistory+ away status so the bouncer isn’t needed. Voice & video would be out of scope if trying to use a single tool, but the way these protocol operate is just to handshake & negotion for another protocol. My mates & I use Mumble (looking for alternative but everything kinda sucks & uses too many resources) for audio & share terminal sessions for other tasks where video is a massive liability for bandwidth & accessibility with video artifacts making text illegible.Even still none of this requires perpetual data replication—what it leads to is Alice joining Bob’s server instead of setting up her own server & joining that way since the cost of hosting all that data + CPU/RAM prohibit her sovereignty in the space. Our society has enough of that where you can’t own your own land or other resources, reliant solely on those in power. With tech we can give that power back to folks so they can run their own stuff if they want, but we can’t have that if the cost of running everything is too high due
... show moreV3 has
chathistory+ away status so the bouncer isn’t needed. Voice & video would be out of scope if trying to use a single tool, but the way these protocol operate is just to handshake & negotion for another protocol. My mates & I use Mumble (looking for alternative but everything kinda sucks & uses too many resources) for audio & share terminal sessions for other tasks where video is a massive liability for bandwidth & accessibility with video artifacts making text illegible.Even still none of this requires perpetual data replication—what it leads to is Alice joining Bob’s server instead of setting up her own server & joining that way since the cost of hosting all that data + CPU/RAM prohibit her sovereignty in the space. Our society has enough of that where you can’t own your own land or other resources, reliant solely on those in power. With tech we can give that power back to folks so they can run their own stuff if they want, but we can’t have that if the cost of running everything is too high due to bloated design.
Also this was hard ta read: Is your space bar broken? ’Cause a lot of words are stuck together… ins & outs*, DMs* …apostrophes don’t make words plural.
sep
in reply to toastal • • •