Is it just me or do you guys miss these type of skeuomorphic icons?
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An open-source alternative to Retool and Temporal
GitHub - windmill-labs/windmill: Open-source developer platform to power your entire infra and turn scripts into webhooks, workflows and UIs. Fastest workflow engine (13x vs Airflow). Open-source alternative to Retool and Temporal.
Open-source developer platform to power your entire infra and turn scripts into webhooks, workflows and UIs. Fastest workflow engine (13x vs Airflow). Open-source alternative to Retool and Temporal...GitHub
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Temporal is MIT licensed and comes with multi-tenant security features and its durable execution model is solid and scalability is phenomenal. They upsell to the cloud offering and the default OSS auth plugin is intentionally limited (you might want to develop your own if you self-host). You'd probably only look at the Temporal UI when debugging.
Windmill is very cool, but it is only suitable for trusted teams due to its security model. If you want to be able to develop scripts and workflows in the web browser and run them together with trusted colleagues, on a schedule etc., then windmill might just be for you!
Hey Fedizens, what are we now?
Mbin in the last six months doubled their number of comments being sent out across the wider Fediverse. PieFed is making strides forward all the time. Sublinks hasn't seemed to keep up, but Lemmy.World has floated the idea of potentially moving to it at some point.
So we are not all just "Lemmy" anymore. Though "Fediverse" seems far too broad a term, when it can include such diverse aspects as PixelFed (like Instagram) as well as Mbin or Xhitter as well as Lemmy or PieFed or Sublinks - see e.g. A lot of good stuff is happening in the fediverses!
So people have taken to calling us the "Threadiverse". Tbf that name predated Mark Zuckerberg's "Threads", but still that name now seems tainted by it? Though otherwise accurate & precisely descriptive as it emphasizes how people talk in topic-based conversations, rather than the user-focused approach of Mastodon and Xhitter.
So what I do (when I don't say that we are on the Fediverse) is simply list out all the possibilities - Lemmy, Mbin, PieFed, and soon Sublinks - though that gets cumbersome. Or maybe there's a new term that we could use? @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com mentioned:
most people think of microblogging when they hear "Fediverse". Maybe "Nestedverse" or "Forumverse"?
Or I suppose we could say "Threadiverse except don't worry we specifically exclude Threads", whenever we talk about ourselves, especially to mainstream people (who don't use Arch btw!
) e.g. to people on Reddit. (oh who am I kidding, ofc I mean @blaze@feddit.org, who regularly tries to attract new users to here and deserves some kind of award like "Ambassador of Lemmy" - oh and there we go again, just what the heck are we!?)
Also, it is up to each instance whether they want to specifically exclude threads.net or not - and one could in theory not do that, so that whenever threads.net decides to turn on its federation it would absolutely flood that instance with content, drowning out the source from Lemmy (or WHATEVER we are!
).
So it can all get so complicated - what would help simplify it? Just call it "Lemmy" and leave it at that? Unless Lemmy.World moves to Sublinks, that is where >80% of the userbase lies and therefore much of the content is coming from atm. Or "Fediverse" even if that is too broad? Or "Threadiverse" even though that's a loaded word now? Or something new? (ngl, I kinda REALLY like "Forumverse")
People will call it whatever they want ofc - I intended this to be a silly & fun question to provoke us into thinking about it:-). Especially since I'm posting to Lemmy from PieFed - which is fucking beautiful that none of those details actually matters and we all can just share the content and enjoy it, together!
I get that - and you most definitely are not the only one, but how much would doing so block people from coming here from Reddit, bc of the implications that it's like Threads? (Which it is, despite predating and defederating from it.)
db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com had a really cool suggestion: "Forumverse"
.
I’m not sure that Sublinks will happen. It was breathlessly announced as if it was coming soon with the promise of regular updates. But here we are eleven months later with no updates at all.
To me it’s just seems like Lemmy and the Threadiverse are slowly evaporating.
PieFed is struggling too - e.g. this post apparently took >3 days to federate to Lemmy.World (and possibly manual efforts from Rimu to finally make that happen), and then yesterday and today PieFed was barely reachable due to some Cloud flare issues.
A huge difference though is how responsive and active the devs are. It's not as "mature" a project as Lemmy is - despite having some great features that Lemmy lacks - but definitely is a heck of a lot more active, being fairly functional already, unlike Sublinks apparently. When PieFed's UI catches up, I am going to be very excited for it. Oh heck who I am kidding, I already am:-) (and seriously it's now my main, even if I need to resort to a backup Lemmy occasionally to find things more easily).
Voting against Genocide – How Palestine Has Become a Domestic US Political Issue
cross-posted from: lemmy.ml/post/22512916
November 13, 2024
By Ramzy Baroud
Ramzy Baroud is a journalist and the Editor of The Palestine Chronicle. He is the author of six books. His latest book, co-edited with Ilan Pappé, is “Our Vision for Liberation: Engaged Palestinian Leaders and Intellectuals Speak out”. Dr. Baroud is a Non-resident Senior Research Fellow at the Center for Islam and Global Affairs (CIGA). His website is www.ramzybaroud.net
Voting against Genocide - How Palestine Has Become a Domestic US Political Issue - Palestine Chronicle
Millions of Americans acted upon their sense of collective rage to punish the Democrats for what they had done to the Palestinian people.admin (Palestine Chronicle)
I disagree that "their humiliating defeat on November 5 was due largely to their undeniable role in the Israeli war and genocide in Gaza." I definitely think it played a role and Dems would have won more voters with concrete promises to halt Israel's genocide and enforce US laws like the Leahy Law. People are justifiably upset with Israel crossing lines without Biden enforcing consequences, and the huge amounts of money going to fund genocide as opposed to being used domestically.
Was it really THE major issue affecting votes though? IMO the more significant issues were things like a feeling of "more of the same" when people are struggling and focusing on trying to win "moderate" Republicans instead of motivating a base they thought was guaranteed. Still, it's an article with valid points.
According to the polls it was the economy that motivated voters the most and dems lost voters because of high inflation during Bidens term causing voters to think it was Bidens policies causing inflation.
Republican ads specifically blamed Bidens ‘progressive radically leftist’ policies.
Award-winning mathematician Ma Xiaonan leaves Europe for China
Award-winning mathematician Ma Xiaonan leaves Europe for China
Award-winning Chinese mathematician Ma Xiaonan has left his decades-long career in Europe to join Nankai University in Tianjin, according to an announcement on the university’s website.Ling Xin (South China Morning Post)
Award-winning mathematician Ma Xiaonan leaves Europe for China
Award-winning mathematician Ma Xiaonan leaves Europe for China
Award-winning Chinese mathematician Ma Xiaonan has left his decades-long career in Europe to join Nankai University in Tianjin, according to an announcement on the university’s website.Ling Xin (South China Morning Post)
If Western food was covered the way Western writers cover Asian food
If Western food was covered the way Western writers cover Asian food - The Adventures of Accordion Guy in the 21st Century
These tweets may be from a couple of years back, but they’re new to me, and they might be new to you as well. They take the way “western” (a.k.a.Joey deVilla (The Adventures of Accordion Guy in the 21st Century)
Factory factory factory
Factory factory factory
Explaining what's wrong with modern software development by allegory.factoryfactoryfactory.net
No, but it used to. And that's enough for some people.
I bet you that there are people who steer clear of anything related to BASIC not because it's a kiddy language, but because it was invented by Bill Gates.
Bluesky wins out.
Sorry, but there's companies and interest groups at play here. No one is championing Mastodon but us fossy poors.
Would kinda be nice if I dunno... Harvard or, Brown maybe would take an interest in privacy focused social media and start lobbying for and spreading it.
We have companies spending billions on bullshit, with nobody spending a cent on truth.
A summary of the standard mastodon front page:
- News report about Trump
- The temperature in Sudan
- The travel trajectory of a plane carrying people you've never heard of, going somewhere you've never heard of.
- A penis
- Ai art of Bart Simpson and a worm from Dune
- An AOC quote
- Furry porn, diaper optional
- A Linux distro professing a new update
- Someone's Chaos Space Marine (it actually looks really nice and they really took their time)
I like it in a flea market kinda sense but, I mean, come on, man.
Mm, reminds me of the old world of IRC. I still remember fondly when I asked for help installing FreeBSD, and got banned with a message of "try linux".
So I did, never looked back. (Until I got a Mac at least, which counts as a BSD.)
Bad idea. Bluesky's just gonna end up like Twitter.
The Fediverse could get shitty in new ways too, but it can't get Elon'd. Bluesky eventually will. The future is on the Fediverse. All we're doing is delaying that future by swapping one corporation for another.
Though maybe that future needs to be delayed, because the Fediverse needs to lose its "yeah our app can do that thing you want, just edit a few variables in the source code"-style github energy.
Mastodon is ultimately usable, because I figured it out, but it should have been easier, and needs to get easier. Maybe it has the rise and fall of bluesky to figure that out.
Porn industry is certainly a bad thing though. It is quite hostile to women, and many have been harmed by it and wished they had a good exit.
Bit I definitely agree that progressive lean is a good thing. Fwiw I didn't read this article.
I'm not really following what's the issue here? Sounds like a wide variety of content that is the perfect medium to find people to follow so you can get a more filtered and curated feed, which mastodon comfortably supports.
I don't know any social media that boasts a decent news feed that you put 0 information into.
Though maybe that future needs to be delayed, because the Fediverse needs to lose its “yeah our app can do that thing you want, just edit a few variables in the source code”-style github energy.
Self-defeating: that "github energy" is not going to get lost if first not enough people use the Fediverse that having to make that kind of change at the source level becomes a hindrance.
In what regards what normies would use of the featureset, they are identical tho - pretty much everything is identical these days. Log in, go to your timeline / flood / jeep / whatever, click "post new", copy-paste a meme, hit toot / blarg / weep / whatever. There. Done.
99% of people use the exact same 1% of the features of a service.
You federate with Threads
Nice try, fed.
mastodon.social exists
It's literally there to take the choice away from new users
Well.....I don't know why you included Twitter on that list, as they've NEVER been part of the fediverse.
Threads is fully integrated. You can personally block them from your end, but thats all you.
It would be like saying "Dominos doesn't make pizza. It has never been a pizza company". With your logic being that you don't like their pizza. Doesn't make it true just because YOU don't eat the pizza.
Bluesky I hear conflicting reports on. Some people say it is, because it can be, others say it's not, because it's not official. I get both sides on this.
But the last part......is objectively not true. It happrns to work that way FOR NOW. It just isn't profitable enough for the major players to sink any real resources into.
The fact that it's adfree has more to do with the fact that 60k people on all of Lemmy with most instances having a few hundred people "on" it, and also advertising companies not understanding the concept of federation.
I could start my own instance, and sell ads to corporate overlords. The biggest problem I'd face is the idea of trying to convince any company with money to spend that money on me putting an ad on for such a small audience.
If/when the fediverse ever gains momentum and becomes mainstream, you can guarentee that ads will be everywhere.
Because nobody owns the fediverse. Which means if I sell an ad on my instance, all federated instances will see the ad. Sure, you could defederate from my instance. But what would happen right now if lemmy.world sold ads? Is every instance going to defederate from the biggest instance, with the majority of communities? That would essentially break the fediverse.
We're all on a service that you think is immune to centralization, but forgot the core concept that humans like to socially congragate. Which means it's inevitable that there will always be one big dominant instance. Which means if this thing ever goes mainstream, the ads are coming, and they'll be on all the big instances.
Well…I don’t know why you included Twitter on that list, as they’ve NEVER been part of the fediverse.
I included it because the article title included it, and I agreed it never would be. I then went farther and said I don't consider any of those beside Mastodon to be Fediverse because they all are corporations creating platforms for shareholders, NOT users.
It would be like saying “Dominos doesn’t make pizza. It has never been a pizza company”. With your logic being that you don’t like their pizza. Doesn’t make it true just because YOU don’t eat the pizza.
To use your analogy, It's actually more like they have the appearance of a pizza-like substance, but eating it you know it's not pizza and never will be because it's made of human waste.
Because nobody owns the fediverse. Which means if I sell an ad on my instance, all federated instances will see the ad. Sure, you could defederate from my instance. But what would happen right now if lemmy.world sold ads? Is every instance going to defederate from the biggest instance, with the majority of communities? That would essentially break the fediverse.
If it was pushing ads, absolutely! I believe the majority of us came to the fediverse to escape the ads/corporate enshitification, so the moment this stuff starts creeping in we can all just defederate them. Every admin knowing this would be the outcome I think also helps keep the fediverse "honest" as well.
Every time I see non-tech people talk about Bluesky vs Mastodon, they talk about how awful the user experience is on Mastodon, and how it's been an issue for years and they keep ignoring it, so people just go to Bluesky instead.
It definitely feels like a "Us tech folk who care about the tech love it, we don't mind the user experience as long as the tech is here" vs the "I just want the same thing I have over here, the tech aspect could not be any less relevant to my choice of platform" kind of issue.
There's a lot of that. A ton of FOSS software is somewhat exclusionary because it's made for the people who make it.
But a lot of the UX issues on Mastodon have nothing to do with the tech, nor the UI. They're social in nature.The existing userbase skews technical, which affects what people discuss, and people looking for help are met with a deluge of tech savy people giving tech savy advice.
Oh, and there's the mass of very vocal users on niche sites that have strong feelings about having their niche safe space invaded by "normies", and who let it be known that new users should learn and adhere to "the rules" and respect the unlisted, unagreed upon nettiquite of social outcast "progressive" fedi or GTFO.
And then, on top of the social, there's just the fact that most Internet users don't really grok the Internet these days. Twitter or BlueSky aren't websites to them/ they're "apps". The very nature of federation on the Fediverse runs counter to how they understand how thir "apps" work.
They don't want to have to know about it, but they can't avoid people talking about it, making judgements around it, and having to confront it when edge cases crop up or when admins decide they don't like or trust the new crop of fedi websites that have sprung up this month or last.
On Twiiter or BlueSky, they don't have to think about any of it.
ETA: Things might be different if people stopped treating "Mastodon" as a place that exists on the Internet, but even the Mastodon developer treats it that way, when it's convenient to him. He's created a little functional monopoly, and seems to care moee about that than anything.
Mastodon servers are Mastodon branded, and that is a mistake, in the long run. We need to communicate to people that they can sign up for MyInterest.social, that is MyInterest branded, while also getting to follow people elsewhere. That overcomes the biggest hurdle.
But that doesn't satisfy the egos of people in positions to right the ship.
people still seem to be flocking more to Threads since it is growing by more than million users per day for the past three months. Have to accept there isn't just a single place people are going.
I'm not sure if people looking for something laid out like Twitter or other microblogging sites would necessarily move to Lemmy, which is more like a forum. The activities on any social media may be largely the same, but presentation matters a lot.
To me, Lemmy and other forum style SM is like going to a bar and finding people to have a conversation, where as Twitter/BlueSky/Mastodon/etc are like standing on a street corner and just yelling random thoughts.
Threads is implementing it in phased rollouts and I think they saw the writing on the wall with X that Bluesky was the next "big thing" and wanted to jump on a competitor protocol that had already been developed and already had an active base of both users and developers.l, whereas Bluesky is building everything in house from the ground up with the AT protocol.
WordPress has a plugin that is developed by Automattic (as close to core WP as you can without actually being core WP) which essentially turns every WordPress site into an ActivityPub feed. Its really cool and an incredibly powerful tool for publishers.
Flipboard is also implementing ActivityPub as we speak, and it seems like they are quite bought in on the concept. Their CEO hosts a podcast about the Fediverse.
Ghost is a publishing platform similar to Substack that is also working to implement ActivityPub and is doing a lot of the heavy work in terms of trying to figure out what longer-form publishing could look like within the fediverse, as opposed to being a network of different Twitter clones.
Bluesky is far more user friendly and that’s why the people are going there. I get it, y’all love federation and ActivityPub, but no one wants to pick an instance, much less read a manifesto on decentralized social media. (Frankly, Lemmy has much of the same issues.)
I have had a Mastodon account since Elmo Muskrat bought Twitter, but it’s practically useless as few outside some specific IT-oriented users are on it. I got Bluesky, and it’s been way better as it attracts a larger variety of people.
I think the bigger problem is that there's no universal search that will find something on any of the instances you aren't blocking.
Search is not authoritative like it is on centralized social media.
It's not too hard to understand. Some people just like to pretend it's complicated. It's literally the same system email uses, and almost everyone has figured out how to use that. There's no marketing for it though. It's only word-of-mouth, and let's be honest, us fediverse users often aren't the best at communicating simply.
It'd be smart if some fediverse instances provided an email account with your account. Then we can just tell people to create an email account and they'd accidentally have a fediverse account.
The fact that the fediverse has been mentally limited to "Mastodon and Lemmy" is so sad. The features many people complained weren't on Mastodon were right there on Akkoma, Misskey, Friendica, Hometown, and others. But nobody would even look at them.
Even on the fediverse nobody wants to discuss the sea of alternative services.
I mean, it's a network of indeoendent websites. I'm not sure what kind of solution to this people want.
People seem to be able to choose which wrbsite they're signing up for when looking at Twitter, BlueSky, and Threads. It's not like it't that weird of an idea.
They even grok the idea that different Wordpress-based websites are different from each other!
Maybe if we stopped treating "Mastodon" as a space, and talked about it like the webhost software it is, people would understand.
where pleroma
where akkoma
where misskey
where firefish
where iceshrimp
where sharkey
where cherrypick
where catodon
where mitra
realcaseyrollins likes this.
It actually doesn't.
Install the official Mastodon app on your phone, launch it, scroll past the instance selection box that railroads you to mastodon.social anyway, and it's no more complicated than Twitter. It's just that nobody knows that.
Fun fact: The official Bluesky app has a selection box for a PDS, too. It's no more and no less complicated than the official Mastodon app. Nobody knows that either.
Granted, of course, if you let yourself be railroaded, the place where you land in the Fediverse won't be the bee's knees, and you won't know that there are not only better Mastodon instances (or more Mastodon instances in the first place), but also better server applications than Mastodon (or anything else than Mastodon in the Fediverse in the first place). But hey, it's easy-peasy.
Nobody really actively chooses Apple Mail.
It's just that they buy iPhones, and they want a total no-brainer, like, a phone that's fully set up and ready to use without them having to do anything because it, like, totally confuzzles them 'n stuff. So whichever friendly salesperson sells them their phone also sets everything up for them. Including an e-mail account because they need one for their Apple account, but they don't know if they've got one.
If they buy an Android phone, it's the same, only that they get a Gmail account if they don't happen to already have one.
IMO the success of BlueSky is good for the Fedi. It can take the “let’s be the next mainstream thing” monkey off of its back and just be itself.
Plus, it keeps the obnoxious "But muh follower count" fame whores and the majority of the "Why can't this be exactly like Twitter, I want a total Twitter clone" dumb-dumbs out. They'd ruin Fediverse culture even more than the second migration wave two years ago which was so massive that those who fled back then only encountered each other on Mastodon and hardly anyone who had been in the Fediverse before then.
But hardly anyone in the Fediverse, next to no-one on Mastodon and literally no-one outside the Fediverse knows that Misskey exists. Not outside of Japan anyway. Or any of the Forkeys, for that matter (if you're a Westerner and neither an otaku nor a weeb, Iceshrimp or Sharkey may suit you better).
For more Mastodon users than not, the Fediverse = Mastodon. And outside the Fediverse, hardly anyone has even heard of the Fediverse.
I'm on a (streams) instance on which someone else is following pr0n accounts. That instance is small enough (13 channels, including clones of external channels) to suggest them as contacts to me until I've removed them as suggestions.
Only boobs I saw without searching mastodon.social for non-pr0n hashtags.
Because nobody knows they exist. Especially not on Mastodon. And even less outside the Fediverse, tech media included.
And truth be told, way too many Mastodon users don't want to know. They want the Fediverse to remain what they thought it was when they joined: only vanilla Mastodon.
Really goes to show that Lemmy is full of tech-curious geeks: Tell a Lemmy user about a Fediverse project that's neither Lemmy nor Mastodon, and it's much more likely for the reply to be something along the lines of, "where public instances."
I think in many cases it was never about Bluesky or Jack Dorsey who never really had a saying on Bluesky proper anyway. It was more about keeping the Fediverse ActivityPub-only or even Mastodon-only.
In that light, I think the only reason why there haven't been any calls for totally Fediblocking all of Hubzilla is because 75% of the Fediverse have never even heard the name, and maybe a few hundred people outside Hubzilla know how it works and what it does. No critical mass to be appalled. And Hubzilla not being based on ActivityPub and technically being bridged to Mastodon via its own per-channel bridges would be only one out of many possible reasons to want it "gone from the Fediverse".
You're assuming that all those servers would have the same policies and admins.
As we can see from their recent announcement, the LW team has some specific policies in their Terms of Service that no other instance replicates.
You are thinking about load balancing, but that can be handled by Cloudflare or something else, it's doesn't have to be a different instance.
Release v0.6.0 · ilya-zlobintsev/LACT
This is a big release, adding several new major features:
- Nvidia support! LACT now works with Nvidia GPUs for all of the core
functionality (monitoring, clocks configuration, power limits and
fan control). It uses the NVML library, so unlike the Nvidia control
panel it doesn't rely on X11 extensions and works under Wayland. - Multiple profiles for configuration. Currently it is not possible to
switch them automatically, but they are configurable through the UI
or the unix socket. - Clocks configuration now works on AMD IGPUs (at least RDNA2).
Previously it was not parsed properly due to lack of VRAM settings. - Zero RPM mode settings on RDNA3. Currently this needs a linux-next
to be used, and the functionality is expected to land in kernel
6.13. But this resolves a long-standing issue with RDNA3 that made
the fan always disabled below a certain temperature, even if using a
custom curve.
There are many other improvements as well, such as better looking and
more efficient plots rendering in the historical charts window (thanks
to @In-line ) and a Fedora COPR repository
providing LACT packages (currently in testing).
Nvidia showcase:
 |  |
Full list of changes:
🚀 Features
- Add support for multiple settings profiles
(#327) - Show dialog when attempting to reconnect to daemon
- Include device info and stats responses in debug snapshot
- Improve plot rendering, use supersampling and do it in a background
thread - [breaking] Add initial Nvidia support
(#388) - Implement clocks control on Nvidia
(#398) - Add special case for invalid throttle mask
- Add snapshot command to CLI
- Add RDNA3 zero RPM setting
(#393)
🐛 Bug Fixes
- Getting pci info in snapshot
- Retry reading p-states if the value is nonsensical
- Increase retry intervals when evaluating GPUs at start
- Make throttling flags ellipsized to avoid massively oversized window
(#402) - Deduplicate throttle status bits
- Update amdgpu-sysfs with iGPU fixes, add steam deck quirk
(#407) - Fedora spec non-default builds
(#410)
🚜 Refactor
- Make info page a relm component
(#404) - Drop redundant ClockSettings structure in the ui
📚 Documentation
- Update issue template to mention common RDNA3 problems
- Fix issue template yaml
- Move description to label in issue template
⚙️ Miscellaneous Tasks
- Bump version
- Update docs, enforce minimum rust version
- Set codegen-units=1 to decrease binary size in release
(#390) - Include service log in debug snapshot
- Drop old bench feature
- Bump dependencies
- Bump version
- Remove unused Cargo features
(#405)
Developer
- Automatically create release on tag push
- Trigger workflow on tag push
- Bump workflow rust version
- Add debug builds to makefile
- Skip building signed packages if signing secret is not found
- Don't run rust checks on master pushes, only PRs
Packaging
Release v0.6.0 · ilya-zlobintsev/LACT
[0.6.0] - 2024-11-14 This is a big release, adding several new major features: Nvidia support! LACT now works with Nvidia GPUs for all of the core functionality (monitoring, clocks configuration, ...GitHub
The best part of it is that it's not just graphical: It's a headless daemon that you can configure via config file, CLI or GUI.
That's in stark contrast to i.e. CoreCtl which only operates while its window is open in a graphical desktop session.
Australia backs draft UN proposal recognising Palestinians' 'sovereignty' over land, water and electricity
Australia backs UN proposal recognising 'permanent sovereignty' of Palestinians over natural resources
The vote by Australia in a UN committee puts the country at odds with the United States and Israel, and has angered Australia's Jewish lobby groups.Matthew Doran (ABC News)
like this
Oofnik likes this.
like this
Dessalines likes this.
don't like this
Dessalines doesn't like this.
Do you think continuing the slide into fascism as Capitalism continues to decay is a good thing? If not, how do you plan on stopping it?
The fact of the matter is that the Democrats ran to the right of Biden in 2020 and committed fully to genocide. They lost the support they had, and they lost enough to lose the popular vote as well as electoral college. This was a massive failure, and if your plan was simply to vote Dem and hope for the best, then it's clear that your plan A failed. What's your plan B?
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Dessalines likes this.
Voting Kamala failed. The Democrats failed to run a campaign that won. That is in the past. What I am saying is that voting Democrat did not work, so I am asking what their plan actually is, if voting Dem wasn't plan A then what is?
Leftists already have a plan that isn't contingent on winning a presidential election. Do liberals?
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Dessalines likes this.
I wouldn't know. I'm not an American, and not a card-carrying liberal voter on my country.
What I do know is that this constant othering is how these problems were created in the first place. Spending time and energy building straw men on the Internet is creating enemies, not allies. If you are genuinely dedicated to spreading information and awareness, as your earlier post suggests, making assumptions and jumping down people's throats is hurting your cause, not helping it.
We are currently in the process of creating a larger divide in left-minded individuals, and I am unbelievably sick of it. As the right rapidly unifys, we seem to be learning nothing.
What’s your plan B?
What's yours? Since letting Trump get elected was apparently Step 1, what's Step 2? Where are we going now? Come on, fill us in.
Or, alternately, stop putting words in other peoples' mouths and consider that what we have now is worse for everyone than the alternative would have been.
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Dessalines doesn't like this.
I didn't get Trump elected, lol. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't. The election isn't a part of any Leftist's plans.
The answer is revolution, as it always has been, and that starts with organizing. I've even made an introductory Marxist reading list that has gotten several people to read theory, and hopefully join Leftists in organizing. Yes, I did link it at the beginning of this convo, and no, you didn't click it, otherwise you'd know what my plan is because I spell it out.
What's your plan? Endlessly critique on Lemmy and blame voters for the failures of the DNC?
I didn’t get Trump elected, lol.
And this right here is our unresolvable ideological difference. You refuse to consider that by not voting for the better option, you're partially responsible for what we have now. Good luck with your revolution, I guess. We have nothing else to discuss.
You don't know who I voted for, and it doesn't matter. I could have voted De La Crúz, Stein, Oliver, Harris, Trump, any of them, and it would not have made a shred of difference, and unlike you, I have planned for that already. You still haven't told me your plan, so I guess I was right, it really is just to whine on Lemmy and blame voters for the tremendous and historic failure of the Democratic Party to connect even somewhat to the working masses and thus garner support.
In the future, when Capitalism has decayed further, you'll likely become radicalized and seek to understand this process, and I'll be right here.
Your 'plan' is not a plan so much as a general set of vague guidelines. My 'plan', with the same degree of validity, is to (continue to) support my local community, work towards conversions to better voting systems, and try to weather the next four years while continuing to take a pragmatist's stance on political candidates.
What I find insufferable about you and the majority of the vocal folk who share your views are that you don't seem interested in actually having a conversation about your views. You're all quite ready to put words in other peoples' mouths and adopt a holier-than-thou attitude towards everyone, while not considering that many of us might share a lot of your views if you weren't so damn militant about everything. We probably have quite a lot in common, but painting everyone who isn't a marxist as a capitalist / fascist isn't helping your cause, not in the slightest.
This will be the last thing I say here, so feel free to get your last word in.
My plan is a plan, revolution has clear requirements and work do be done, organizations to be built and class awareness to be raised. I don't know what you mean by that as "guidelines."
Secondly, "supporting your community," while noble, is vague and shapeless. What does that look like? How do you work towards better voting systems, and how do you know they are sufficient to bring about change? Is this a situation where you just think really hard about something and hope it magically manifests, or is this a real, practical plan? These questions should all be able to be answered by you in a heartbeat, and if not, your plan does not have the same degree of validity. I encourage you to poke and prod at what I espouse. I also take what I believe to be a pragmatist's approach - after all, I believe what you advocate thus far is far too difficult to accomplish and far too little to accomplish much even if it did come to pass.
Thirdly, you claim I am not willing to have a conversation about my views. Since when? You can check my comment history, it is filled with meaningful conversation regarding the myriad nuances, complexities, difficulties, and strengths of Marxism. When were you willing to have a discussion? You opened a conversation where I said the Democrats failed to garner support with condemnation of my personal character, and refused to acknowledge my points on the necessity of working towards a practical solution rather than hoping the Democrats can win. Evidently, that still remains your tactic, because you only said "voting reform" is necessary.
I never once painted you as a Capitalist, you're likely a proletarian like most of us. I never once called you a fascist, either.
I do believe that if you took the advice I gave in the beginning, you'd likely agree with my reading list, and even become a Communist by the end of it. What I don't believe is that you're in a mindset to take that advice, nor do I believe you ever have been in this conversation. You opened it with personal attacks when I tried to direct the conversation towards practical actions, and I think that's because taking action scares you.
I hope you'll read theory, I do think you'd agree with it if you would be willing to do so, but I don't think you are, yet. If, on the off-chance you do decide, I'm open to answer any questions you might have. I don't know everything about Marxism, not by a long-shot, but I'm very confident in what I do talk about because I refrain from talking about what I don't know.
I said I wasn't going to reply again, and I'm going to mostly stick to that, but I do want to issue a self-correction for one thing.
I was reading this thread on an app that doesn't do a good job of differentiating different posters, and I was replying to a few different people and (incorrectly) attributing some of the more inflammatory things I was reading to you. Now that I'm looking at it on a PC, I can see that it was actually multiple people, so I apologize for that. Of the people I was replying to, you were the least objectionable, but we still have fundamental differences of opinion that we will not be able to resolve here.
I appreciate your apology, it does explain quite a few of what I percieved as erratic and irrational antagonisms. I will state that had you not come in, intentionally or not, by directly assaulting my character, I would have generally been far more charitable.
I know you said you don't wish to reply, and if not that's fine and I understand. However, given that we have clarified that the hostility in this conversation was based on a fundamental misunderstanding in tone and intent, why not talk about our ideas, like you said you wanted? We can start fresh.
What about our difference in opinion is so fundamental that we can't come to some level of agreement? Again, I'll state that, regardless of the actions of individual voters, whether or not these voters are mobilized in general depends most heavily on the campaigns run by the two parties. The changes in the 2024 Harris Campaign compared to the successful Biden 2020 campaign can at least be considered a large determining factor in the changes in voting sway, no?
Secondly, I do think it's important to analyze if voting reform would actually meaningfully change society, and if it's even feasible to achieve without revolution in the first place. Marxists have very good reasons to be revolutionary exclusively.
The only circumstance under which I would support a revolution is if the government simply ceases to function (which it may, now, under Trump - who knows? But I don't wish to bank on that possibility, nor do I wish to cause a non-functioning government simply to justify a revolution; that's no better than Republicans grinding everything to a standstill then claiming that their ability to do so is evidence that the government isn't working.) The pragmatic stance is to vote for the better of the candidates who can reasonably win elections while directing effort towards changing the reasons why we only have two candidates to choose from.
Revolution that isn't supported by the majority of people is simply imposing a viewpoint on people who do not want it, and even if it would ultimately be better for them in the long run, it's no better than Christian Nationalists trying to impose their viewpoint on everyone else.
If it is supported by the majority of people, it should be able to be resolved via the democratic process. What's stopping that right now is the two-party system that we're stuck in, and that can't be resolved without voting reform, so that's where I'm choosing to direct my efforts. It's not that it will single-handedly change society, but it's the first step in a process that will, theoretically, allow new, more progressive and left-leaning parties to rise to relevance.
There have been multiple states that have had ranked-choice voting on their ballots (including mine), but they largely haven't passed, so I would argue that yes, it is feasible to achieve it without revolution, but thus far it seems that people don't understand why it's needed (and therefore it's a matter of getting the word out and raising awareness), or they simply disagree with it and want to maintain the status quo (and if that's honestly the majority opinion, and it's not just a perception or information problem, then so be it - that just means that we're in a minority and we shouldn't be forcing the majority to bend to our viewpoint any more than they should be forcing us to bend to theirs.).
Look, I think we agree on a lot of things. I support many socialist views; capitalism is an awful system, corporate greed and income inequality and money in politics are some of the biggest problems with society and some of the biggest inhibitors to change. However, I don't think communism is a viable solution. In my opinion, the ideal solution would still allow accumulation of personal wealth, but would distribute wealth based on how much good a person has brought to society, rather than on how much of a sociopath they're willing to be to get it. I believe most people are greedy and I believe most people are motivated by personal gain moreso than anything else. Not everyone, obviously, but most people, and I think the only way we're going to get people to abandon the 'Fuck you, got mine' attitude is by rewarding behaviors we want to reinforce, which capitalism obviously does not do.
If we take your "revolution should only be supported if the government ceases to function" stance to its logical conclusion, that means you are against the American, French, Vietnamese, Cuban, Russian, and Chinese revolutions, right? Even if previous conditions were misery, because the government still functioned, they should have stuck with it? I don't agree that the pragmatic stance is to continue voting democrat, because disparity is rising and Capitalism is crumbling. Democrats will not support policies that could endanger their own power, and that extends to Capitalists. I think you confuse "pragmatic" for "easy."
Secondly, Marxists are revolutionary, not Blanquist. Revolution requires the support of the masses. Secondly, this revolutionary shift in power cannot be held at the ballot box, because the Capitalist State supports the bourgeoisie. The only candidates you can vote for and the only parties allowed anywhere near power are the ones that serve purely the interests of Capital. That's why not only is voting reform extremely difficult to get, but also would not change the necessity of revolution.
Thirdly, on your analysis of why voting reform like RCV is not more widespread, it isn't because it isn't popular. RCV is a carrot on a string, too small in scale to ever impact anything, but just close enough that you have hope for it. Even insidiously, achieving RCV nationwide still won't stop the inevitable crumbling of Capitalism! Many other nations have RCV and yet still have nothing but right-wing establishment parties in power, because RCV fundamentally doesn't enact change, it just sounds like it could.
Fourth, you make no mention of how or why you believe Communism to be "unviable," yet fully back a system where distribution is based on arbitrary "goodness" in society. Communists argue for practical, labor-time based economic planning that can be calculated, tracked, measured, and adjusted using real world technology, and moreso argue for doing so only in areas of industry that have already advanced to monopolist syndicates and can thus be centrally planned after being publicly owned. Where is this "goodness" you speak of calculated? By what measure?
Fifth, Humans are not inherently greedy, nor would that be a problem for Socialism and Communism in the first place. Rather, human ideas are shaped by their material conditions and their definite social relations, Capitalism highlights greed and rewards it more. The Base reinforces the Superstructure, ie the Mode of Production reinforces and projects the laws, culture, and values of society, which in turn reinforces the base, slightly changing each other over time as society develops and progresses. Humans will not appear so greedy in a publicly owned economy.
Ultimately, all of your criticisms of Communism are incredibly common for those who have not read theory, as all of the ones you raised specifically were already answered over a hundred years ago. More questions have been raised since then, of course, but I think you would gain a ton from reading the theory list I made, some highlights that directly answer your questions are:
- Reform or Revolution
- Wage Labor and Capital and Wages, Price and Profit
- Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism
- Socialism: Utopian and Scientific
- The Principles of Communism
- The State and Revolution
And as an added measure that isn't in my reading list, Prices in a Planned Economy for more information on what Marxists advocate for with respect to how to economically plan.
I think it's almost amazing how you were able to touch on many different common areas that have been thoroughly answered by Marxists over the years quite definitively, and I mean no offense by that. I really do recommend you give it a try.
Not letting Democrats run a Nazi candidate was step 1. Liberals failed that.
Should have pushed back like I did so Genocrats would have changed course before it was too late. Instead Blue MAGA condoned it all and silenced dissent.
This is the result of capitulating every demand because "But Trump".
Ironically "But Trump" is what got you Trump.
Fr when I'm filling in my spreadsheet for the people I have to watch, it's a lot easier if everyone goes in column A or column B.
Column A is titled 'Radical speech but thinks that voting will change anything – no action required'.
Column B is 'Radical shitposter – maintain eyes, no immediate action required'.
The other columns, though – damn it's a lot of paperwork.
Column O, 'Organising their community, feeding people, and providing healthcare' is the worst. Luckily for me, the agency's action means they don't stay on the list for long so the paperwork is finite. I probably shouldn't be saying all this as it's top secret. But we do know what's up in our department.
Ironically “But Trump” is what got you Trump.
It's actually got us Trump twice now.
don't like this
Dessalines doesn't like this.
IMO I think the common thread of democrats policies... is they keep thinking if they put one foot in both camps, that they will get both camps.
So, on Gaza... they took the stance of. "let the genocide continue, send the weapons, but also send sternly worded letters".
Result: The stand with isreal crowd hears "The democrats don't support isreal". The stop the genocide people, hear they are still supporting the genocide. Result, everyone hates their stance.
Hence why musks superpac sent 2 ads, one to jewish areas pretending to be the harris campaign saying "I stand with palestine", and an ad to the muslim populated areas saying "I stand with isreal".
Same on the border, instead of announcing how BS the "Migrant crime" claims are, or how bad for everyone mass deportation is, she just said "I tried to give you everything on the border, you stopped me".
You're high as fuck, but you're insulated in your safe space.
Reality laughs at you and how Insanely inaccurate your perceptions are.
My point is, they gave enough lip service, half gestures etc... to try and convince the "don't murder everyone in Gaza" some hope that they could be worked with. IE, they delayed one shipment, Harris didn't meet with Netanyahu that one time.
Again fully agreed they were ineffective half measures, but that was enough to let the Pro-Isreal lobby go in super deep "OH MY GOD LOOK HOW ANTI-SEMETIC THEY ARE!!! I NEVER".
f
You dropped that.
Jill Stein would have totally stopped the genocide you care about.
/s
You got your favorite tyrant in control January 21st. Be happy, you wanted this 🤡
The Democrats can only be failed, they can't fail, can they? If they lose, it's the fault of the masses, each individually, and not on the Party running the campaign and trying to connect to its base, is that right?
The fact of the matter is that Trump was more successful in getting his base to vote, and Harris went against her base by running to the right of Biden in 2020, despite polling telling her it would lead to electoral loss.
None of us individually made any difference, no matter who we voted, the ones with the ability to change the course of the election are the parties and candidates running for it.
like this
Dessalines likes this.
The election was never about Palestine, ultimately the Dems lost of their own volition by running rightward with Liz Cheney. Rather than going with a safe win like ending support for genocide and running on a progressive platform, or even a Leftist platform (which the DNC would never do, for the record, even if it would win), they deliberately chose to lose to the reps. Their donors would rather have Trump than progressive Dems win.
More Americans would die under Harris as well. The US Empire is crumbling, even if Harris won that wouldn't stop that process, what's necessary is for the working class to get organized.
Meanwhile, Palestine burns and the Dems got away with it.
like this
Dessalines likes this.
Rather than going with a safe win like ending support for genocide
Irrelevant
Trump ran on “the Dems aren’t doing enough for Israel” and won the Arabic vote
It’s the same thing
How many elections has the messaging been “a vote for Stein is a vote for Republicans”
- The Democrats share responsibility with the Republicans and Imperialists that have supported Israel's settler-colonial genocide for nearly a hundred years
- I have been pro-Palestine since far before October 7th, 2023
- Even if I wanted to get Trump elected, I couldn't. The Democrats lost because they ran an awful campaign and shifted even further right despite polling telling them that at that point swing voters would rather vote for Republicans.
I think the correct thing to do to give yourself agency moving forward is to project blame onto 10 million people staying home.
I think that this will let you further develop yourself and do the things required to meet your goals.
What do you have agency over right now? Are you part of any democratically run political organization right now?
He didn't though, Jill stein got like 40 percent, Harris and Trump got 20 each.
Honestly this simplification comes off as disingenuous and attempting to play Arab voters are more conservative and backwards.
Just so you know you can't defeat fascism without defeating capitalism. I recommend reading "the economy and class structure of german fascism" and "fascism and social revolution".
In general individual action doesn't really help address social problems.
Politics isn’t gonna fix what is being undermined and dissassembled in our Democracy right now.
I dont think electoral politics will work but you have to expand your definition of politics if you think electoral politics is all that politics is.
I advocate for worker organization and revolution, I blame the Dems for spoiling the left as far-right wingers and I blame the Reps as far-right wingers. Even if every single third party voter in every swing state voted for Harris and convinced 2 or 3 others to do the same, Harris still would have lost handily.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Acknowledge what? Saying I need to "acknowledge the genocide of the Russian people by Stalin" in a thread going over the very real ongoing genocide in Palestine is deflection, for 1. Secondly, what specifically are you referring to as a genocide? Political purges? Famine? Historians don't recognize a genocide committed by Stalin against Russians, they acknowledge excess deaths, so I need to know specifically what you're talking about or else you're going to throw a fit again.
Step away from the keyboard. I'm an American Leftist, I'm a Marxist. I have never been to Russia, nor have I been paid by Russians. This is an absurd conspiracy theory.
The acquisition and accumulation of wealth
There is the problem, you don't even know how to define capitalism. I would suggest reading "wage labor and capital" and "value price and profit"
Both Wage Labor and Capital and Wages, Price, and Profit are free, as well as excellent for beginners with no experience in economics (though it's easier to understand if you've at least taken a high-school or college level economics course).
Unlike Capitalists, Communists advocate for moving beyond the profit motive 😉
I absolutely can acknowledge the real existing struggles faced by AES states, and can offer contextualization or explanation of how we can avoid making the same mistakes. What's more evident than anything is that you don't actually know what those struggles really were, so you throw it all under the banner of "COMMUNISM BAD," which I can't engage with.
If you ask me about a specific event, time period, action, etc. we can have an actual dialogue. Failing all else, I recommend you read Blackshirts and Reds by Dr. Michael Parenti, he takes a critical eye towards the successes and failures of the Soviet Union in a way that analyzes what actually happened there.
Eventually the real world will let you know that Marxists are right, yet again.
Oh so you're telling me Biden had no choice. Ithe most powerful man in the world couldn't do anything but enable Israel and its genocide?
Oh that makes sense and doesn't fly in the face of reality at all. /s
Bonus for you
You seem very picky as to which genocide is ok.
The Russian land grab and physical and cultural genocide of Ukraine.
The Israeli land grab and physical and cultural genocide of Gaza/Palestine.
You can’t be absolutist about one and hand wave the other.
No purity for you.
The US is not currently causing the genocide in Ukraine.
The US has not spent 80 years covering for genocide in Ukraine.
The US has not spent 80 years being the attack dog of another nation commiting genocide in Ukraine.
I'm not in Russia. I was not born in Russia. I do not pay taxes to Russia.
Discover history through OldMapsOnline
OldMapsOnline
The easy-to-use getaway to historical maps in libraries around the world.www.oldmapsonline.org
Codai: AI code assistant in Terminal with understanding the full project context
GitHub - meysamhadeli/codai: codai is an AI code assistant that helps developers through a session-based CLI, providing intelligent code suggestions, refactoring, and code reviews based on the full context of their projects. It supports multiple LLMs, inc
codai is an AI code assistant that helps developers through a session-based CLI, providing intelligent code suggestions, refactoring, and code reviews based on the full context of their projects. I...GitHub
Ukraine’s demographic crisis threatens its future viability as a free state
Ukraine’s demographic crisis threatens its future viability as a free state
The war has taken its toll, as men fight or flee, and few are left behind to workAnthony J. Tokarz (Responsible Statecraft)
TootSweet
in reply to il Dorato • • •What icon pack? (Is this post supposed to be a link?)
Edit: Ah. Now there's an image.
vort3
in reply to il Dorato • • •Sometimes I think that I miss skeuomorphism, but then I realize it's not the skeuomorphism that I miss, but my childhood and days when the world was much simpler.
Would I like to bring back skeuomorphic UIs? Yes.
il Dorato
in reply to vort3 • • •TimeSquirrel
in reply to vort3 • • •I'm too old to be nostalgic for skeuomorphism. But a retina-burning amber monochrome monitor, text mode, with menus and UIs built out of ASCII graphics, or at best, 640 x 480 CPU-driven graphics modes? Now you're talking.
From my perspective, the skeuomorphic era of the early-late 2000s is still "modern".
4grams
in reply to TimeSquirrel • • •like this
TimeSquirrel likes this.
TimeSquirrel
in reply to 4grams • • •4grams
in reply to TimeSquirrel • • •Yeah, entirely fake. But yes, you read my mind, I plan on adding some fun interactivity someday. Plan on some fake terminal commands like ping and so forth.
Thanks for the feedback!
orca
in reply to il Dorato • • •Cris
in reply to il Dorato • • •Personally I don't, I kinda hate old skeuomorphism 😅
Neo skeuomorphism has some neat novelty though.
Edit: this is just my personal aesthetic preference, I don't begrudge anyone their love of skeuomorphism, or nostalgia for it.
otacon239
in reply to Cris • • •Cris
in reply to otacon239 • • •I'm curious how you feel about the GNOME application icons, they sound like they might be up your alley
Right now I generally have a preference for either weird stylized themed stuff I make myself, or very flat stuff like what android currently does for app icons, but I can certainly see the appeal of other stuff :)
I really like the application icons used in Gnome but I really like the consistent line weights and geometry of material symbolic icons so I'm still using a material icon pack on gnome
Edit: Here's a picture I grabbed of icons done in the adwaita style Gnome uses in case you don't use linux and aren't familiar with them. Its not a full sampling, but you get the idea :)
otacon239
in reply to Cris • • •Take these icons, add one more layer of simple gradient shading: perfection
For example, GIMP’s icon looks especially bad here to me. If it had just a hint of black shading, it would look massively better (imho).
Cris
in reply to otacon239 • • •otacon239
in reply to Cris • • •Any time! I’m a graphic nerd with none of the book learning, but I do work at a screen printing shop, so I have some intuitive understanding of logo/icon design, but don’t have the theory to go with it.
In other words, I have wildly subjective opinions that I’ll randomly dig my heels in on. (Sometimes when I have no idea what I’m talking about ha!)
Cris
in reply to otacon239 • • •Lol, I'm somewhat similar. I'm a big ui/ux nerd but don't have professional or academic experience other than some pro-bono work in high-school. But I love tinkering with my phone's homesceen and other similar little projects. I'm hoping to make a neocites page soon!
This is my previous phone's homescreen I posted a while back:
mastodon.online/@CrisColor/111…
I've gotten a new phone since then and am still getting it updated to fit properly on a new screen, so right now it looks a little jank 😅 but it's always interesting to hear how other people feel differently about aesthetics than yourself!
otacon239
in reply to Cris • • •Right on. I’ve moved onto a dirty iPhone since, but here’s a screenshot of my super old Android setup back from when Material was new. After Android took out all the fun stuff custom ROMs could do, I sort of fell out of love with Android.
I had a cool feature at one point where it started out looking like this and unlocking it would make the circle expand and the background would show in full.
Man, I miss early KLWP
Cris
in reply to otacon239 • • •That looks awesome! I'm deeply nostalgic for that period of time, material design was the big thing when I was first getting into UI design and I was absolutely in love with it
Klwp and Kwgt are still a blast, that's what almost all of my stuff is made out of, but iOS has its pros as well :) from what I hear things are progressively getting a little more customizable, if still pretty locked down
At some point I'd like to get a little better at animations so I can make my setup feel a little more alive, but for the time being it's mostly just static elements
Avid Amoeba
in reply to il Dorato • • •Captain Aggravated
in reply to il Dorato • • •Mugmoor
in reply to Captain Aggravated • • •Byter
in reply to Captain Aggravated • • •Captain Aggravated
in reply to Byter • • •The Ramen Dutchman
in reply to Byter • • •I miss the
It seems Nintendo's consoles (Wii, DS, 3DS) were also more colourful and packed with music and sound then.
The Switch is so quiet. So... Dead?
Sanctus
in reply to il Dorato • • •blazera
in reply to il Dorato • • •Allero
in reply to blazera • • •lime!
in reply to Allero • • •a skeuomorph (from greek, "tool/container-shape") is something that retains the characteristics of another thing that it is based on, even though those characteristics are no longer useful. think lamps shaped like candles, or the floppy disk save icon, or media player programs with volume knobs.
skeuomorphic UX is a good way to get users comfortable with a system by using designs they are already familiar with, and the original iphone used this to great effect.
This is a good example of skeuomorphic UI:
all to say, I'm not entirely sure these icons are skeuomorphs. they're just glossy.
stellargmite
in reply to lime! • • •Yeh the files being little pieces of paper, and the folders being old office folios are skeumorphic. Skeumorphic was (or is?) sometimes used more generically for ui elements made to look physical so perhaps the pseudo 3D shading, dropshadows, bevels and highlights qualify much of OPs examples, though they aren't representing any specific type of physical object necessarily. Just objects to be grabbed and used (clicked).
I’m sure trends will bring us back to a similar style at some point like they often do.
lime!
in reply to stellargmite • • •it's weird that. it's obviously possible to have a flat-shaded skeuomorph, just look at basically all of windows 95, but for some reason we connect them to this particular graphical style. files and folders are both part of the old classic "desktop metaphor", so they basically have to be skeuomorphs. but like, the application icons are basically just mosaic tiles of the normal icons.
a proper skeuomorph would indicate what the program is for. krita and whatever map software that is are both good, if a little flat. but the libreoffice suite just being squares with a letter on them? have them be like, a spreadsheet for calc, a stack of cards for impress, and a printed page for write.
remember all the icons for windows 95 network utilities that have people in them? those are also (attempts at) skeumorphs because they're trying to communicate what the program does.
Allero
in reply to lime! • • •Thanks! Learning more every day
Also, beautiful design, and probably not bad for a touchscreen (terrible for mouse though)
BCsven
in reply to lime! • • •datendefekt
in reply to il Dorato • • •Actually no, I hated the Vista era UI design. Linux themes were positively garish, add MacOS looked like a candy store.
CDE greatly impressed me back then. It looked like it was made by adults for adults. Highly legible, and the pastel colors are being emulated by Solarized.
I'm sure that those UIs were a product of the times. The 90's and noughties were loud and colorful and exciting and everything looked like a comic. Now that we live in more depressing times, we can look to the science of perceptual psychology.
You see, we have an attention budget, we need to process what we see. Visually complex UIs need to be parsed, and that takes mental effort, and that robs us of mental energy to focus on our work. It's not a crippling effect, but it's there.
Look at street signs and corporate logos, they easily lodge in our mind. Effective advertising has a clear and simple visual language, and this is what UIs should strive for.
Dave.
in reply to datendefekt • • •Interfaces can be needlessly complex regardless of being flat or skeuomorphic.
But flat interfaces still require mental effort to parse. Especially when the interface is complex and/or crowded and you're trying to pick out active UI elements amongst decorations like group boxes/panels.
Essentially, flat interfaces are currently popular because of touchscreen devices. Touchscreen devices have limited space and thus need simplistic UI elements that can be prodded by a fat finger on a small screen.
But I don't need a flat touchscreen-friendly interface on my non-touch dual 24" monitors with acres of screen real estate. I need an interface that nicely separates usable UI elements from the rest of the application window. That means 3D hints on a 2D screen, which allows my monkey-brain with five million years of evolved 3D vision the opportunity to run my "click the button" mental command as a background process.
MonkderVierte
in reply to datendefekt • • •One of the reasons i like interfaces with clear lines. But that doesn't fit icons, all-same-isch looking rectangles are not easier to parse than "objects". The mind is optimized for 3D, not for abstract icons.
1984
in reply to il Dorato • • •My plasma 6 desktop has absolutely stunning icons, and im like you - I like proper icons that look more interesting.
Try plasma 6, I'm sure those icon sets are also much more complete. :)
LeLachs
in reply to il Dorato • • •You need to put it in the address part aswell (like this
[https://github.com/madmaxms/iconpack-obsidian](https://github.com/madmaxms/iconpack-obsidian)Here is a working one github.com/madmaxms/iconpack-o…
il Dorato
in reply to LeLachs • • •NoLifeGaming
in reply to il Dorato • • •kautau
in reply to NoLifeGaming • • •For those who haven’t seen snl’s papyrus skit:
Or papyrus 2:
A couple of the best sketches SNL has ever done
AusatKeyboardPremi
in reply to kautau • • •I upvoted your comment just because it had links to the reference you made.
Also, the sketches were funny; thanks for sharing them.
kautau
in reply to AusatKeyboardPremi • • •Matriks404
in reply to il Dorato • • •EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted
in reply to il Dorato • • •deafboy
in reply to EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted • • •Way beyond fist shaking here. My brain simply doesn't process the trendy flat UX. It looks like when my kitchen garbage can tips over. A piece of carrot here, empty milk crate over there, sprinkled with onion peels, and some unidentified goop that I only discover later in the evening, using my bare feet, while getting a cup of water...
What's weird though is that I similarly hate the circle android icons. They all kinda blend together like a bowl of skittles. Make them squircle though... instantly recognizable!
eatham 🇦🇺
in reply to deafboy • • •Markaos
in reply to eatham 🇦🇺 • • •deafboy
in reply to eatham 🇦🇺 • • •communism
in reply to il Dorato • • •Yeah, I do miss that, but idk how much of it is nostalgia and how much is an absolute aesthetic preference. I think the main reason for the change though is Microsoft trying to make Windows work well on mobile devices though, meaning forgoing the aero and more expensive VFX.
Wish some DEs would make their default style more like a win7 era style. Would be nice to have the variety.
The Ramen Dutchman
in reply to communism • • •The Ramen Dutchman
in reply to il Dorato • • •God, no!
Though these do look pretty, they don't look like the buttons in Windows 95/XP and maybe that's a good thing.
tetris11
in reply to The Ramen Dutchman • • •The Ramen Dutchman
Unknown parent • • •How about flat, easy to recognise icons and straight, square windows and app designs?
Brutalism for your DE!
boaratio
in reply to il Dorato • • •BradleyUffner
in reply to il Dorato • • •GenderNeutralBro
in reply to BradleyUffner • • •And you can't tell when something is active/focused or not because every goddamn app and web site wants to use its own "design language". Wish I had a dollar for every time I saw two options, one light-gray and one dark-gray, with no way to know whether dark or light was supposed to mean "active".
I miss old-school Mac OS when consistency was king. But even Mac OS abandoned consistency about 25 years ago. I'd say the introduction of "brushed metal" was the beginning of the end, and IIRC that was late 90s. I am old and grumpy.
wvstolzing
in reply to GenderNeutralBro • • •I've got these articles saved, about the history of brushed metal on Apple software:
512pixels.net/2013/03/brushed-…
512pixels.net/2016/11/the-brus…
To be honest I loved it ... though maybe it has to do with the fact that I have a soft spot for 10.4 Tiger, due to personal (?!) reasons. After Tiger they started progressively tearing down the brushed metal components.
carpelbridgesyndrome
in reply to GenderNeutralBro • • •The FireTV os is worse. The active focus indicator is different between pages of the OS ignoring apps. Oh and it changes constantly.
muhyb
in reply to il Dorato • • •Suru++ Aspromaurosicons too.Railison
in reply to il Dorato • • •john89
in reply to il Dorato • • •I don't know if you'd call that skeuomorphism, and we have icons that are similar.
I'm not sure what you would call the opposite of 'flat' in terms of these designs, but I think that's what you're referring to.
nyan
in reply to il Dorato • • •My primary icon theme and widget style are 20+ years old and not flat in the least. You can still have that look and feel on a real computer if you want it (but you may have to compromise elsewhere or do some extra work). On phones, all bets are off.
Dunno what your issue with that icon pack is, but I'd bet there's a good chance it can be solved with a few file renames or symlinks if you care enough to bother.
Eugenia
in reply to il Dorato • • •Richard
in reply to il Dorato • • •gortbrown
in reply to il Dorato • • •starbrite
in reply to il Dorato • • •monovergent
in reply to il Dorato • • •It's nice and easy on the eyes. I conjecture that glossy and matte (as seen here) styles of skeuomorphism gave way to more abstract design since:
- Skeuomorphism is hard to get just right without being excessive and tacky
- Saturated, simple blocks of color pop out more, particularly on the increasingly prevalent mobile UI
- And thus also have better shelf appeal
If it were up to me, the red line would be when buttons and interactive elements are indistinguishable from text. The stock Android settings is probably among the worst offenders in this regard.
What I really miss is light mode that isn't hated for blinding users and dark mode that doesn't plunge the user into the void. Those "toolbars" look lovely, perfect for any lighting condition or time of day. I've yet to understand why, at present, designers insist on pure white everywhere when it comes to light mode. Maybe everyone is using the night light filter so it doesn't matter? At least pure black dark mode makes sense for power efficiency on OLEDs.
beleza pura
in reply to monovergent • • •that was always my impression of os x back in the day. it felt tacky as hell. i'm a linux guy, but windows's aero was so much more beautiful
chloroken
in reply to il Dorato • • •beleza pura
in reply to il Dorato • • •yum13241
in reply to il Dorato • • •