The Power of Small Brain Networks
Small Brain Networks Are Mightier Than We Thought
It only takes four neurons to achieve big things.Elena Renken (Nautilus)
Last Week in Fediverse – ep 93
Last Week in Fediverse – ep 93
Even on the fediverse is Bluesky currently the main topic of conversation, and some other smaller news as well.
The News
Bluesky is having a major moment in the spotlight right now, which is also impacting the fediverse. It is a major source of conversation on the feeds, as it asks people to reflect on what exactly they want out of social media. Mastodon CEO Eugen Rochko shared that Mastodon also sees some impact of people looking to leave X, with a 27% increase in monthly signups. With a total of 90k new signups this month, that amounts to ~20k new users that might potentially be attributed to the changing environments at X. Statistics on fedidb indicate that monthly active users for Mastodon grew by around 50k in the last month. In Japan, Misskey seems to be a popular destination according to a survey, but it’s hard to know how this translates to numbers as Misskey statistics have been unreliable for a while now.Bluesky’s Starter Packs, which allows you to easily follow many people around a certain theme, are especially a source of conversation, and there are multiple attempts at bringing various forms of Starter Packs to the fediverse as well. Pixelfed creator Daniel Supernault is releasing ActivityPub Starter Kits ‘soon’, the documentation is available here.
Sub.club keeps expanding their offering, and with their latest update you can turn the RSS feed of your website into an ActivityPub feed with a paywall.
The latest update for the ActivityPub plugin for WordPress now gives you a ‘fediverse preview’ option, which shows you what your WordPress post will look like viewed from the fediverse.
The popularity of Bluesky has led Pixelfed creator Daniel Supernault to ask the community whether Pixelfed should add support for Bluesky, but he decided against it after significant pushback from the community.
Threads has made another marginal update to their ActivityPub implementation, and it’s another one for the list of ‘how did they not do that already with the previous update?’.
Trouble in Paradise? Understanding Mastodon Admin’s Motivations, Experiences, and Challenges Running Decentralised Social Media – an academic paper that interviewed 16 instance admins and describes their experiences. Short write-up of the paper here.
A proposal for a Public Key Directory server as a first step towards E2EE encryption on ActivityPub. I’m not a cryptography expert at all, but I’m personally curious how this differs from ATProto’s PLC.Directory.
Sharkey is announcing some major security vulnerability patches that affects all *key software.
The Mastodon team will have a stand at the Social Web Devroom on FOSSDEM. You can still submit proposals until December 1st.
The Links
- First Look: Loops, by Pixelfed – WeDistribute.
- Fedi Moderation Tooling Research.
- Mastodon & OpenTelemetry.
- Trunks & Tidbits for October 2024, the monthly update from the Mastodon engineering series.
- Loops has added share links.
- Lemmy development update.
- A short update on the Hubzilla Association.
- This week’s fediverse software updates.
- My Thoughts on GoToSocial – James Ashford
- Vivaldi’s podcast ‘For a Better Web’ interviewed Evan Prodromou.
- The weekly update for Ghost on their ActivityPub implementation.
- Flipboard is promoting the fediverse on TikTok.
- Resources for choosing the right fediverse instance – and I’m not just talking about Mastodon (DRAFT) – The Nexus of Privacy.
- The ‘Do the Woo’ podcast has two episodes about WordPress and the fediverse.
That’s all for this week, thanks for reading!fediversereport.com/last-week-…
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Last Week in Fediverse – ep 93
Even on the fediverse is Bluesky currently the main topic of conversation, and some other smaller news as well.
The News
Bluesky is having a major moment in the spotlight right now, which is also impacting the fediverse. It is a major source of conversation on the feeds, as it asks people to reflect on what exactly they want out of social media. Mastodon CEO Eugen Rochko shared that Mastodon also sees some impact of people looking to leave X, with a 27% increase in monthly signups. With a total of 90k new signups this month, that amounts to ~20k new users that might potentially be attributed to the changing environments at X. Statistics on fedidb indicate that monthly active users for Mastodon grew by around 50k in the last month. In Japan, Misskey seems to be a popular destination according to a survey, but it’s hard to know how this translates to numbers as Misskey statistics have been unreliable for a while now.
Bluesky’s Starter Packs, which allows you to easily follow many people around a certain theme, are especially a source of conversation, and there are multiple attempts at bringing various forms of Starter Packs to the fediverse as well. Pixelfed creator Daniel Supernault is releasing ActivityPub Starter Kits ‘soon’, the documentation is available here.
Sub.club keeps expanding their offering, and with their latest update you can turn the RSS feed of your website into an ActivityPub feed with a paywall.
The latest update for the ActivityPub plugin for WordPress now gives you a ‘fediverse preview’ option, which shows you what your WordPress post will look like viewed from the fediverse.
The popularity of Bluesky has led Pixelfed creator Daniel Supernault to ask the community whether Pixelfed should add support for Bluesky, but he decided against it after significant pushback from the community.
Threads has made another marginal update to their ActivityPub implementation, and it’s another one for the list of ‘how did they not do that already with the previous update?’.
Trouble in Paradise? Understanding Mastodon Admin’s Motivations, Experiences, and Challenges Running Decentralised Social Media – an academic paper that interviewed 16 instance admins and describes their experiences. Short write-up of the paper here.
A proposal for a Public Key Directory server as a first step towards E2EE encryption on ActivityPub. I’m not a cryptography expert at all, but I’m personally curious how this differs from ATProto’s PLC.Directory.
Sharkey is announcing some major security vulnerability patches that affects all *key software.
The Mastodon team will have a stand at the Social Web Devroom on FOSSDEM. You can still submit proposals until December 1st.
The Links
- First Look: Loops, by Pixelfed – WeDistribute.
- Fedi Moderation Tooling Research.
- Mastodon & OpenTelemetry.
- Trunks & Tidbits for October 2024, the monthly update from the Mastodon engineering series.
- Loops has added share links.
- Lemmy development update.
- A short update on the Hubzilla Association.
- This week’s fediverse software updates.
- My Thoughts on GoToSocial – James Ashford
- Vivaldi’s podcast ‘For a Better Web’ interviewed Evan Prodromou.
- The weekly update for Ghost on their ActivityPub implementation.
- Flipboard is promoting the fediverse on TikTok.
- Resources for choosing the right fediverse instance – and I’m not just talking about Mastodon (DRAFT) – The Nexus of Privacy.
- The ‘Do the Woo’ podcast has two episodes about WordPress and the fediverse.
That’s all for this week, thanks for reading!
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Russia warns Ukraine’s ATACMS attacks mark ‘new phase’ of war, lowers threshold for using nuclear weapons
Russia warns Ukraine’s ATACMS attacks mark ‘new phase’ of war
Warning comes as Putin lowers threshold for using Russia nuclear arsenal in move decried as ‘irresponsible’ by the West.Al Jazeera
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Blender 4.3
cross-posted from: lemmy.ml/post/22682449
Blender Foundation and the online developer community are proud to present Blender 4.3!Packed with exciting improvements to existing tools (hello EEVEE Light Linking and multi-pass compositing!), performance boosts, and the foundations for the future (looking at you, Grease Pencil v3).
Plus, hundreds of contributions ranging from new features to accessibility enhancements—and as always: loads of fixes.
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Huh, didn't know I understood German
Edit: oh I just made OP's joke again
Ok, let's see
- Fox moderator as verticalgong minister
- Killmonger as underworld minister
- Impregnator as health minister
- Hillbilly as vice president
- Very wrong theorecist as Justice Minister
Bottom text: Trump's next Reich
Is my translation correct?
- Top left: conspiracy theorist who likes drugs and minors as minister of justice
- Top right: FOX moderator as minister of defense
- Middle left: a hillibilly as vice president
- Middle middle: anti-vaxer as minister of health
- Middle right: climate change deniers as leaders of environment agency
- Bottom: trumps next government
Vem som erbjuder tjänster spelar roll - sociala medier - Svenssons Nyheter
Vem som erbjuder tjänster spelar roll. En norsk utredning har tydligt att visat att det spelar stor roll vem eller vilka som sköter välfärden. Det åverkar jämlikheten och kostnaderna. Privat är dyrare och offentligt är jämlikare. Framförallt blir det stora skillnader om det privata är vinststyrt eller inte.
Vem som erbjuder tjänster spelar roll. En norsk utredning har tydligt att visat att det spelar stor roll vem eller vilka som sköter välfärden. Det åverkar jämlikheten och kostnaderna. Privat är dyrare och offentligt är jämlikare. Framförallt blir det stora skillnader om det privata är vinststyrt eller inte.blog.zaramis.se/2024/11/19/vem…
**🌱 The Dutch "Tile Whipping" Competition 🌱**Move over, football – the Netherlands has a new sport! Each year, Dutch cities compete in the Tegelwippen ("tile whipping") contest to remove as much pavement as possible, making way for trees, gardens, and green spaces 🌳. Since it launched in 2021, over 11 million tiles have been replaced with greenery.🏆
#TileWhipping #Rewilding #UrbanGreening #ClimateAction #GoodNews #Netherlands
positive.news/society/the-dutc…
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I didn't touch Blender very much since 2.5 so I am quite out of the loop, but I am doing a bit more 3D recently, so I'll give it try once it drops for my distro.
FreeCAD 1.0 finally dropped!
FreeCAD: Your own 3D parametric modeler
FreeCAD, the open source 3D parametric modelerwww.freecad.org
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Apparently Ondsel recently announced they’re shutting down, partially due to this release. A lot of what Ondsel added to the FreeCAD experience is just merged into FreeCAD now. Sad to see it but at least all their work wasn’t for nothing.
I had mixed feelings about the whole Ondsel thing. And, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Most of the significant features in 1.0, that supposedly came from Ondsel, are things that I've been using for perhaps 3 years now, with a fairly well known branch of FreeCAD called Linkstage3 by a user that goes by RealThunder.
I don't know how much he was involved in Ondsel, or the merging of those features into FreeCAD, but it sure looked like a whole lot of great work wasn't credited to mind boggling amount of work by one person.
I still use the Linkstage3 branch, because it has a lot more features still, than what was present in the 1.0 pre-release i tried some months ago. Maybe things have changed since then.
Me too. Ondsel wouldn't have been possible without the massive amount of work that previously happened on FreeCAD.
If you want to be supporting FOSS, this is how you do it.
It's also likely, consider the first paragraph of their goodbye, that it has more to do with competing in a commercial CAD space (where engineers are trained on specific software different from FreeCAD in school) than anything else.
Ondsel's goal was to make money by selling cloud services for CAD users. They were probably bound to fail in that endeavor-- and they did. Still, it was worth a shot. But their biggest contribution to FreeCAD was being the adult in the room and getting all the different groups to agree on how to move forward to solve the biggest problem, the TNP issue that FreeCAD had from the start and couldn't be arsed to fix. Ondsel's lasting contribution is the Assembly workbench that is now be the default Assembly workbench for FreeCAD. And it's a lot better than the other 3 hacked solutions.
realthunder was involved in folding his TPN solution into this 1.0 release. Though my understanding is that it's different than his implementation. He is now back to his fork and is supposedly cleaning up his code to work better with the mainline branch of FreeCAD to make his code easier to insert.
Personally, I would move to either the stable 1.0 release now or, I you are crazy like me, the 1.1 weekly releases-- brought to you on github every Tuesday and Saturday for your alpha enjoyment of the bleeding edge.
Is it decent ? Yes
Should I look elsewhere? Also yes.
CAD is difficult to understand on a good day, and FreeCAD is a beginner unfriendly implementation of it.
I personally love it and it’s an excellent tool if you already know what you are doing. If you don’t, it’s a mess of screens and spaces with no rhyme or reason.
My two cents. Learn CAD first, Google Sketchup or Fusion 360 are good and beginner friendly with lots of tutorials. Then move to FreeCAD to learn the differences.
That said if you want to just try FreeCAD, this release is the best I’ve used from them.
It does but from my testing only on impossible shapes. Like two triangles mirrored at the tip with a width of 0.
It has other issues still, but the app is stable.
FreeCAD has long had open source disease in that it is very powerful and yet a pain in the ass to work with partially through crap UI design.
1.0 includes a lot of changes that address this. They've modernized a lot of it, added a lot of missing features, and brought a lot of things up to modern snuff.
There are things I like about FreeCAD better than Fusion360, for example FreeCAD has a spreadsheet built into it. Fusion360, last time I used it, had a kind of underbaked Parameters list that you couldn't even sort, the ability to have a spreadsheet for your dimensions and such.
All Parametric CAD software is complicated to use, you need to wrap your head around designing with rules, but once you get that basically all of them unlock.
No. The people who struggle with FreeCAD struggle because they leaned something else first. Its the same reason Photoshop trained users complain about GIMP while people who learned GIMP first dont complain.
Learn FreeCAD first, and you won't be handicapped
I went Inventor -> SOLIDWORKS -> Fusion -> SOLIDWORKS with maybe 3% of the issues I've had with FreeCAD.
You can't easily create models based on other models, or place things around as easily,, it's always a mess of shape binders and fixed coordinates, it really limits the capabilities of the software.
I'm always checking forums, discords, YouTube for the simplest things.... I'm trying and I keep trying, but it's very obtuse to just dismiss the issues as "people don't want to learn", 'cause I'm putting more time into FreeCAD than any other CAD, and getting shit results.
You can say you have put in the effort to learn it and the effort doesn't pay off for you. It happens and is nothing to be ashamed of. But the blunt truth is the majority do NOT want to learn anything new because change is scary and simply want to complain about the tiniest difference. If I had a nickle for every time I've tried to help someone with FreeCad and they start complaining how FreeCAD isn't like Fusion360 and why isn't it, I probably could afford that SW license. No shit, It ain't Fusion.
There's a huge difference between a CAD package that has had millions of dollars and multiple development teams spent on it to polish and tweak it into perfection and a small team of volunteers that are working in their basements and backyards for free so they can give it away for free. Why would you be surprised and upset that it can be chaotic and janky. Your choice is to either continue to climb that mountain to master FreeCAD or to move on to something that does make you happy. To quote that famous puppet, " Either do or do not. There is no try"
I will tell you that any CAD package is simply a tool-- a means to an end and not the end itself. And if the tool doesn't work for YOU after giving it a good try, don't use that tool. I will also say that despite enjoying the sackcloth and ashes of FreeCAD, I would never recommend it for professional use. It's not ready for prime time. There are better tools out there for that field of battle. But that doesn't mean FreeCAD is not a useful tool and can do a lot of impressive things if you wish to spent the effort.
No it's not. Unlearning old habits and thought processes is always the first step in learning new things. But to be fair, it's also the most difficult part.
While other CAD packages do have a better failure path to follow, they still can fail at the same points as FreeCAD. And you still really should be following best practices for ANY CAD package to avoid failures. But people are nothing if not lazy. And fillets and chamfers just suck in any CAD package. It's always been my practice to never add them until I was done with the modeling. And if major changes where needed, I would remove them if I suspected they could even remotely cause an issue during a change to a model.
I do think the point about all CAD packages having failure paths is a little overblown. Yes, you can definitely get proprietary CAD to break but in my experience (at least with Solidworks and Fusion), it usually requires much more complex parts than FreeCAD parts. Post 1.0 the situation is definitely better though.
You're right that users should try following best practices from day one, but realistically most users are not going to learn everything correctly automatically. They might use an out of date tutorial, or might have just learned by tinkering themselves.
The point I was trying to make was that because FreeCAD operates differently than other CAD programs do to one another and because it's generally a bit more brittle and demanding of the user, I can't say I blame anyone for not wanting to switch to it if they already have a CAD program they're proficient with. You could call it being lazy, but from a practical standpoint there isn't necessarily a ton to gain for a relatively large amount of time investment required to be capable of using it.
I really hope FreeCAD improves enough one day in the new user experience department. I love the software and have been using it as my tool of choice for years now, but evidently not everyone thinks it's worth the time investment.
I never have an issue with people preferring a different CAD package over another. For example: I detest Fusion 360 for various reasons even after spending a year with it. We all have preferences, work requirements, and even "vibe" better with one package over the rest. You need to choose the tool that works best for you.
What I do have an issue with is new users that try and have problems and immediately start whinging that "FreeCAD isn't like what I know. And it needs to be like my favorite" Those are the lazy people that can't be bothered to learn something new. And they should either expend the effort to learn or go back to whatever they were using or volunteer to code, (it's open source after all). FreeCAD ain't for you.
But if you have given FreeCAD, (or ANYTHING new in life), an honest try and you can't get the hang of it or simply don't like it. Well, that's a valid and very fair reason to not use it.
What I do have an issue with is new users that try and have problems and immediately start whinging that “FreeCAD isn’t like what I know. And it needs to be like my favorite” Those are the lazy people that can’t be bothered to learn something new. And they should either expend the effort to learn or go back to whatever they were using
I think that's fair, but most criticisms of FreeCAD from people coming from other CAD packages rather fall into your latter category that you mention here:
But if you have given FreeCAD, (or ANYTHING new in life), an honest try and you can’t get the hang of it or simply don’t like it.
I don't think we're actually disagreeing in principle, just on what we perceive as the common criticisms of FreeCAD. Normally, I've seen people from other CAD programs get frustrated at limitations within FreeCAD or needing to work around bugs in ways that slow them down. For example, FreeCAD previously was unable to cope with multiple geometries being contained in a single sketch (I believe 1.0 now supports multiple extrudes from different sketch regions, but previously FreeCAD would throw an error), which made modeling less efficient for those coming from programs like Solidworks where this feature exists. Throw other issues like toponaming into the mix and it's no surprise people from other CAD programs tried learning it, got frustrated (since their baseline was better than what FreeCAD could offer) and moved on.
I agree that criticizing FreeCAD for having different workflows than other CAD programs is a bit silly, though. I don't really care what the exact workflow is as long as it 1) works and 2) is fast, and for me FreeCAD 1.0 (and previously Realthunder's branch) ticks all the boxes there.
I appreciate the respectful discussion!
On the contrary, I learned nothing first and I struggled pretty bad.
After a while though you start to get a grasp on things.
CAD is a bit like programming, there's a lot of ways to do any given task. That can make it tricky if you are doing some tutorials that use one workflow, and then start doing tutorials that use a different workflow.
If you want to learn it, do yourself a favor and take time to find a tutorial that goes from start to finish doing the type of project you want to do so you don't get frustrated when you get midway through.
Like others said, if you are used to doing something in a different CAD software, you might find that the same workflow is clunky in FreeCAD, but if you start out with a workflow that works well in FreeCAD, you are fine.
Weird, last time I used it with nixos running KDE under wayland. Worked without complaint.
The only problem was, that the service did not start (or wasn't there). You had to open a terminal and manually type in sudo spacenavd. After that, everything else was plug and play.
For some people it simply does not help with the workflow. For me it is a significant upgrade as it allows me to never use the normal mouse to move around in 3D, and allows me to quickly move the view to where I want it to be. Without it, moving in 3D just feels clunky to me.
But as I said, it is a preference.
I also prefer to move the camera, which a mouse is more intuitive for. A 3d mouse is like holding/rotating the object. A middle mouse button is so freaking simple and fast I just don't understand the problem. Moving the view around is like 2% of my workflow.
And scroll up has to be zoom in. The fact that many defaults are the opposite is literally insane.
I have tried freecad a number of times to replace solidworks as a critical piece of closed source software in hardware development toolchains. I have always struggled. Yesterday someone spent an hour with me at a makespace saying... "FreeCAD has a different way of doing this/try realthunder branch/use symmetry condition/delete all conditions that coincide" ... it has been worth years of trying alone. When I started solidworks the reseller gave me a week of training - this is often why complex FOSS software gets a reputation for being clunky, because alone you will spend ages hunting a GUI button in a complex interface.
TLDR: Go outside, go to makespace or a FREECAD conference - meet other people who use open source software - its much easier to use/learn from others than alone.
Interesting, when I started using FreeCAD I had 0 training, and I have managed to make it work just fine. Was mostly frustrated by the topological naming problem, but that is fixed now.
You can do quite complex things with it.
You just have to put in a bit of effort and think in an additive sketch-extrude workflow. But yeah, not easy to transition from solidworks.
Yeah, there's a 3rd-party driver called Spacenav that works pretty well. I haven't gotten the two side buttons on my mini wireless one though.
(I wouldn't bother with the driver from 3DConnexion as it hasn't been touched in 10 years old)
ETA: The settings for it in FreeCAD is at Tools>Customize>Spaceball Motion/Buttons
I loved the idea of FreeCAD but having no experience in CAD software at all I always struggled with fundamental basics that were not covered in the tutorials I watched. The huge amount of work benches (some of them 3rd party) did not help since most forum posts or tutorials were based on different or outdated versions.
Having a go with build123d now, trying to model stuff using python. At least the number of available API functions is manageable and everything else is just programming (which I already know).
If you want the best tutorials on FreeCAD, check out mangojelly on youtube. He has a current 1.0 beginner series that starts right from the very beginning. And he goes slow enough to easily follow along.
Ignore the huge number of workbenches. You can even go to the Settings and turn the ones you don't need off so you never see them again. You are only going to use 2 workbenches 90% of the time-- Part Design and Sketcher. And as you get more experience, you might add another couple of workbenches as you go. Most of the third party workbenches are specialty things. For example, I sometimes need to design and make gears or do small sheetmetal work. So I have the Gear and sheetmetal workbenchs installed. You probably would never need it.
Learning CAD, no matter what flavor, does require effort. It's as much about learning how to think as it is about learning how to do.
Also this channel has many new videos with freecad 1.0. Especially for woodworking
I find the opposite. There's so many videos on FreeCAD its wonderful. And if you're stuck, ive posted to the forums and within a week someone literally took my file and made a video showing how to do what I couldn't figure out.
Such a fantastic community.
I just treid it a bit. And I have to say its quite incredible how good it got! Still a bit rough but I would say its 30% better than a year ago. But maybe ondsel just got me into the mindset of this program.
Its sad to see ondsel go because I doubt we would be here without them.
I hope the freecad team sees all the incredible feedback and the next few versions will be similar improvements for usabilty!
I use LibreCAD for architecture work and will take a look at FreeCAD.
Has anyone else tried both for architectural work? How did they compare for you?
I work as an architectural designer but I've never really been allowed to use anything other than Revit for BIM workflows. Our consultants basically only use Revit or Autodesk products, so our hands are kind of tied for projects where we need to collaborate.
My boss uses Vectorworks for our small projects that don't need BIM, I might suggest we switch to Libre or FreeCAD so that we all have access without needed another VW license. Do you enjoy using LibreCAD?
I like LibreCAD, but it's a little too simple sometimes. I miss the power of AutoCAD, but I don't miss its price.
Three things I want are
- being able to assign heights to objects and do 3D stuff
- being able to assign labels to objects (instead of circle3761 I'd like to call it 'fountain' or something)
- splines are really finicky, and you can't do things like a fillet on more complex objects
It took a couple of days to get used to and probably a week of use before I was 100% comfortable, but I find that it meets most of my needs now.
I imagine both Libre and Free are open-sourced and easily modifiable? I haven't looked into it, but if it's anything like Rhino there should be a standard way of writing custom plugins that should close the gap on some of those - at least the object naming would be easy.
I'll look into them though, thanks! BIM software is such a pain in the ass to work with and one of the most expensive design software I know of, I think open sourced projects would be amazing for BIM if they took off like FreeCAD did
Out of Gaza
cross-posted from: lemmy.ml/post/22679898
[gift article - link can be shared with others, good for 30 days]Visuals by Samar Abu Elouf
Text by Samar Abu Elouf and Eric Nagourney
Doha, Qatar
Nov. 19, 2024[Photos with text about Palestinians from Gaza who were severely wounded by Israeli attacks and managed to escape. Not easy to read.]
Out of Gaza
We photographed badly wounded Gazans who made it out for treatment. Many can think of little but the dead they left behind. “We wanted to go with them, too,” one child told us.The New York Times
Son of Norway's crown princess arrested over alleged rape
Marius Borg Hoiby arrested over alleged rape: Norway crown princess' son faces charges
Marius Borg Hoiby, the son of Norway's crown princess, was arrested on suspicion of rape, police said Tuesday, the latest scandal involving the royal family.Caroline Radnofsky (NBC News)
Why Does Bluesky Use an Algorithm If It's Decentralized
Bluesky is supposed to be decentralized, so why does it even have an algorithm? Isn’t the whole point of decentralization to avoid centralized control, including things like content algorithms?
Is this algorithm centralized, or is it designed to run locally within the decentralized structure (like on individual servers)?
There are lots of users' made algorithms and the main feed is one of them by the Bluesky, you can unsubscribe to it (AFAIK), I have one for myself and anyone else interested in the said topic of it.
The main feed also can mix every other feed you signed up for.
"Show all posts from newest to oldest" is an algorithm.
"Shows random 10 posts, unordered" is an algorithm.
It's not possible to show a list of items without an algorithm. You may of course take issue with what the algorithm is, but you can't not have one.
2 points.
- Whether something is decentralized doesn't mean it can't have algorithms. Lemmy has algorithms too, just not "learning" ones. But there's no reason why it couldn't.
- bluesky isn't decentralized and can never truly be
Amsterdam’s Soccer Violence: Islamophobia and Antisemitism
cross-posted from: lemmy.ml/post/22677649
By world-outlook.com on November 18, 2024[article contains contents of an article from #TheGuardian with an introduction, plus a link to an article in #Jacobin.]
Amsterdam’s Soccer Violence: Islamophobia and Antisemitism - World-Outlook
This article provides a concise analysis of the root cause of the violence that erupted in Amsterdam, Netherlands, leading up to and in the aftermath of a soccer match between Ajax, a Dutch team, and Maccabi Tel Aviv, an Israeli club, on November 7, …world-outlook.com (World-Outlook)
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Two thoughts come to mind:
1) If it's there and you aren't having it shoved down your throat, then that's still a VAST improvement over Twitter, which has gone from shitty social media to blatant hate indoctrination platform.
and
2) Did you just now discover that most people are shitty? I always assumed most people figured that out at 13 or 14.
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Did you just now discover that most people are shitty? I always assumed most people figured that out at 13 or 14.
Still haven't, screw misanthropy
30% self-congratulatory talk about how popular bluesky is this week.
TBF, Mastodon was the same when I joined. I just muted all mention of "mastodon" + variations, Bob's your uncle. Navel gazing meta discourse is the least exciting updates on any platform.
It is still funny to visit random egg profiles on there and see they only tooted once, two years ago, saying "so this is mastodon, wonder how this works" and then never again.
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Oh, still is.
"Lemmy is terrible!"
"Have you tried kbin?"
"kbin isn't developed, try mbin"
"I tried mbin, but piefed is better"
"I only use the comments section of federated Wordpress blogs, by email"
"Zomg you guys, somebody launched qbin"
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I noticed that for the first time yesterday.
Today, I don't see them. I guess maybe moderation and/or blocking is working.
Also they only follow a single person??
Like how do they expect their feed to be customised and filled with stuff they enjoy, when all they do is follow 1 person and make political posts and posts such as “bluesky sucks, mastodon is best”.
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Druid_Moo likes this.
If you have millions of people on a social network, and you go looking for toxic shit there, you will find it.
Well, on Mastodon, you might not because by default it doesn't have a useful text search feature. If you're on a server running a modified version, or something else with decent text search, you might. My self-hosted server was on a relay that briefly pulled in content from a famously toxic server. At first, I didn't see it because I didn't follow those accounts, but later, I added an improved search feature and tried searching for some terms of abuse. I did find a few absolutely vile posts.
Bluesky has had a working search from early on. Turning off some of the default moderation filters and searching for terms of abuse does, in fact find people using terms of abuse.
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offendicula and kirbowo808 like this.
I guess it depends on what "toxic" means to everybody. I certainly saw a ton of self-centered hostility towards people who saw the platform differently when I was using Masto more. This place is pretty chill and the one bit of Fedi I still use.
My experience on BS was generally fine so far. Some people really block-happy, which I'm fine with, and during the last migration some of the trolls came over to troll and found themselves summarily banlisted almost universally. I don't expect them to last super long in there.
But as always with social media, experiences are more variable than anybody intuitively thinks.
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offendicula likes this.
I moved over to Bluesky basically the minute I could get an invite, because I could see the writing on the wall for Twitter; and there is SOME toxicity for sure, but you control how much.
Bluesky has a completely chronological feed composed singularly of accounts you follow. If you don't follow shit-stirrers, you will not see any shit.
Having said that, they can still show up in the "comments" of skeets you'll see, but the block system is so effective, that they are not usually showing up anyways.
To me, that is the difference between Bluesky's moderation and other websites. Bluesky has very little official moderation, but has extremely powerful blocking tools (their blocks server connections between subskeet, there are curated block lists, atomic blocking, etc). If you subscribe to trusted and vetted block lists, you will probably never see a chud on Bluesky in your life. You do need to verify the trustworthiness of the list in advance, though...
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offendicula and Druid_Moo like this.
The trolls and fascists do not exist on Twitter to hang out with other trolls and fascists. They're there hunting for liberal tears. When their prey leaves, they follow.
Bluekky has been open about not moderating their platform. They've provided users tools to not see the shit they're letting through the door -- which, yes, is currently better than Twitter, where the current ownership believes that 'free speech' is deserving of a captive audience -- but if the bsky algorithm thinks you have something -- anything, really -- in common with the Nazis, they'll get shunted into your timeline, leaving you to play wack-a-mole.
Honestly I want to believe this but I’ve had 0 bigoted accounts ever come into my bluesky replies, when on twitter this would be a daily occurrence.
I’ve met one tankie, and blocked them, but that’s it, and I have 1.7k bluesky posts and 8k followers.
In my time in mastodon, I didn’t experience bigots either, but neither have I in bluesky, and I’m an easy target, I’m disabled and my face looks deformed, it’s my profile picture, while on twitter I’d get snide remarks every day, it’s never been the case on bluesky, and I had one mastodon user make a joke (but that’s just one user).
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giantpaper and atro_city like this.
Every social media is collective of thousands of social bubbles.
While I advocating for federated SNS, I personally rarely encounter any toxicity on internet except when I interact with westerner (especially Americans).
I carefully choose who I follow and interact, and the algorithm are trained with my interaction to put content that not toxic and relevant to me.
On fediverse alone, I have multiple account that delivers entirely different social experience. My English mastodon.social account that just slightly touch Western politics are thousands times toxic. Even my personal regional political discourse feed on Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook are not as toxic as Western politics on fediverse.
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Fitik, AGuyAcrossTheInternet and themadcodger like this.
For a lot of Twitter users, this is their first collapse and migration. Usually these events make people more mobile in the future.
I wonder if and when they'll start moving on from Bluesky? What event will trigger it next time? How much the experience will have to fall apart before they pack up and move? My money is on 'way less than last time'.
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AGuyAcrossTheInternet and FartsWithAnAccent like this.
Critical mass of users on social media platforms.
Back on Usenet decades ago they called it the "Eternal September".
It used to be that every September, fresh University students would gain access to Usenet for the first time, and there would be a rough adjustment period where they don't yet know the ropes, the lingo, the etiquette, the unspoken rules, and the expectant decorum, etc. Then one year, home internet service providers made Usenet accessible to ANYONE who subscribed... And from that day forward, it was like September every day, all year round.
Now the general riffraff are flocking to bsky because even THEY see that Twitter is sinking. This surge of new users have brought all their bad habits with them. Bsky must adapt or it too will fall.
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jwphinia likes this.
Yes. It enforces a bubble by its very nature. There is no main feed, by default you see people you follow and posts they interact with. I don't have a problem with that. I wouldn't go into a pub with racists, and xenophobes, so I shouldn't have to do it online.
Anyway, first thing I did was sign up for a couple of blocks lists, and what saw was awful people.
Also, if you look a the moderation settings, there is a lot of objectional content that is or can be hidden basic of topic flags. This is content that on any sane networks should be banned and the users suspended. But of Bluesky its just hidden from view.
It's basically a microcosm of the Internet. It's not the Good Place for sure, and anyone who thinks that is deluded.
Does the post strike anyone else as "off"?
Like why is this person giving a full elevator pitch of who they are before they drop the bomb of "bluesky is toxic"?
People are happy to be away from X, they’re trying to promote a positive and supportive culture. There’s tonnes of minorities on Bluesky
New Israeli ‘flour massacre’ targets dozens of starving people north of Gaza City
Palestinian Territory - In a new ‘flour massacre’, the Israeli occupation army has killed dozens of Palestinians who were gathering in the Sudaniya roundabout area, northwest of Gaza City. The victims were waiting for the arrival of humanitarian aid after roughly 50 consecutive days of a complete denial of aid.
Israeli army forces opened fire on dozens of Palestinian civilians waiting for aid trucks on the sea road northwest of Gaza City on Wednesday 13 November at around 10:00 am. The Israeli forces killed and injured dozens of them when they attempted to seek refuge inside a nearby house, and then bombed the building, destroying it. Many more individuals are now missing and presumably trapped beneath the debris.
New Israeli ‘flour massacre’ targets dozens of starving people north of Gaza City
Victims were waiting for the arrival of humanitarian aid after roughly 50 consecutive days of a complete denial of aidEuro-Med Human Rights Monitor
Niger hosts historic conference on the fight against neocolonialism in the Sahel
Niger hosts historic conference on the fight against neocolonialism in the Sahel : Peoples Dispatch
Ahead of the “Conference in Solidarity with the Peoples of the Sahel” in Niamey, Peoples Dispatch brings forth stories of resilience and resistance of the people of Niger whose success in forcing their former colonizer France on the retreat has inspi…Pavan Kulkarni (Peoples Dispatch)
vzq
Unknown parent • • •If Russia starts nuking shit, wouldn’t Russia be starting ww3?
Or are we supposed to just accept the implication that only western countries have agency?
Scorpius [He/Him]
in reply to vzq • • •This is clearly a response to the US allowing strikes inside Russia.
Interesting timing to do that when Ukraine, Germany and Russia have been gearing up to negotiate an end to the war next year. Wonder if this is to give the west more leverage in the negotiations or to escalate to give the republican admin next year a tougher time.
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vzq
in reply to Scorpius [He/Him] • • •Threatening nuclear war under these circumstances is definitely an interesting timing.
HumanPenguin
in reply to Scorpius [He/Him] • • •So you're saying Russia has never struck inside Ukraine. Or somehow The US started the war in Ukraine.
Or is it just a freaking stupid idea that one nation can attack another. And expect them not to retaliate.
don't like this
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MushuChupacabra
in reply to Sagittarii • • •don't like this
☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ doesn't like this.
vzq
in reply to MushuChupacabra • • •don't like this
☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ doesn't like this.
davel
in reply to vzq • • •like this
☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ likes this.
vzq
in reply to davel • • •ayyy
in reply to davel • • •davel
in reply to MushuChupacabra • • •like this
☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ likes this.
MushuChupacabra
in reply to davel • • •You will find that the actual cause for the dead, injured, and displaced, is that Russia invaded Ukraine.
The simplest fix would be for the Russians to go home.
The more permanent fix would be for the Russians to go home, and have Vladimir Putin accidentally fall out of a window very high up. That would be reasonable, given how many men he basically threw into a meat grinder.
vzq
in reply to davel • • •Every recrimination has an equal and opposite recrimination. In the end, we are where we are and every country chooses how to play their own hand by themselves.
Russian leadership knew what they were doing when they attacked a foreign sovereign country in an act overt aggression.
I’m sure there are plenty of rationalizations they tell themselves, but it’s not the US that “started this” in any meaningful way.
Hemuphone
in reply to davel • • •Sagittarii
in reply to vzq • • •I doubt Russia will actually use nukes, what with MAD and all.
Then again, people said the same thing about the invasion. Russia doesn't have a no-first-use nuclear weapons policy like the USSR did, so they could use them if they deem the country to be under existential threat.
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freagle
in reply to vzq • • •Do you understand how WWI became a world war? When two countries had a conflict between them, a network of alliances caused others countries to become parties to the conflict. That's exactly what's happening here.
The US, through NATO, was deploying lethal capabilities in Ukraine. Russia determined that this was strategically threatening its security, a position that it has held for 30 years and has been acknowledged by US leaders, diplomats, and generals, as well as world leaders and even the leaders of NATO. Russia launched a conflict with Ukraine, and Ukraine only, in order to address its security concern.
If the USA enters the war, unprovoked by Russia, then it would be the USA starting WW3, just like in WW1 a conflict between two countries expanded to include uninvolved parties when they made themselves involved. The problem with the ATACMS is that it requires US/NATO to operate. Within the borders of Ukraine, that means that US forces are killing Russian soldiers in Ukranian territory. While problematic, Russia has only escalated its rhetoric based on this involv
... show moreDo you understand how WWI became a world war? When two countries had a conflict between them, a network of alliances caused others countries to become parties to the conflict. That's exactly what's happening here.
The US, through NATO, was deploying lethal capabilities in Ukraine. Russia determined that this was strategically threatening its security, a position that it has held for 30 years and has been acknowledged by US leaders, diplomats, and generals, as well as world leaders and even the leaders of NATO. Russia launched a conflict with Ukraine, and Ukraine only, in order to address its security concern.
If the USA enters the war, unprovoked by Russia, then it would be the USA starting WW3, just like in WW1 a conflict between two countries expanded to include uninvolved parties when they made themselves involved. The problem with the ATACMS is that it requires US/NATO to operate. Within the borders of Ukraine, that means that US forces are killing Russian soldiers in Ukranian territory. While problematic, Russia has only escalated its rhetoric based on this involvement. However, if US/NATO troops were to use ATACMS to strike Russian targets on Russian territory, that would be an act of war against Russia which would require a response. In this way, the US would expanding the war beyond the conflict of Ukraine and Russia to now be Ukraine, Russia, and the US - an escalation to world war.
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freagle
in reply to HumanPenguin • • •None of these are valid concepts. The reality is that Russia is in a conflict with Ukraine. Activating alliances brings those other countries into the conflict, which is exactly how WW1 became a world war. The USA has nothing to do with this conflict (except the entire casus belli, but let's go with your position). If the US was neutral, Ukraine would lose and Russia and Ukraine would negotiate a security arrangement to prevent further conflict.
But the US has supplied Ukraine with the equivalent of the entire Russian military budget 3 years in a row. Ukraine keeps fighting exclusively because of US support. But, that has been limited to the borders of Ukraine, which creates sufficient ambiguity that only allows Russia to escalate rhetoric. As soon as the US's involvement creates the conditions for strikes on Russian territory, now the USA is a participant in attacks against Russia, making it an escalatory move on the USA's part. The USA could just stay out of it and this whole thing will resolve itself with far fewer deaths and far less destruction.
freagle
in reply to vzq • • •Threatening nuclear war like this:
usni.org/magazines/proceedings…
bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-4…
carnegieendowment.org/posts/20…
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LANIK2000
in reply to Sagittarii • • •davel
Unknown parent • • •Exec
in reply to Sagittarii • • •☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
in reply to Exec • • •Grapho
in reply to Exec • • •If all you had were regular warheads I'd be cheering on Americans playing chicken to their fucking grave but nuclear war would kill me too, get the fuck outta here with that.
At this point, death to America isn't a radical slogan, it's in self defense.
ProdigalFrog
in reply to Sagittarii • • •In a parallel universe, I would like to witness an official sarcastic response.
'U.S. eager to witness Russia's awesome destructive power in person after Oppenhiemer success. Government announces free UV glasses for safe viewing. Populace hopeful for a swift end to capitalism after nuclear winter'
HumanPenguin
in reply to freagle • • •Accept, Russia broke international law when it attacked Ukraine. As it broke its own treaties to respect 1996 borders in exchange for Ukraine giving up its nukes.
So nope. Also, the only reason Ukraine is not a part of NATO. Is that same treaty where they agreed not to join.
So anyway, you try to argue this. If Russia is the first to launch nukes. They started WW3.
queermunist she/her
in reply to Sagittarii • • •Fidel_Cashflow
in reply to queermunist she/her • • •like this
☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ likes this.
freagle
in reply to HumanPenguin • • •Uhh, that's completely illogical. Yes, Russia broke international law by invading a country. That's true. That does not give the USA the right to attack Russian territory. That's not actually how international law works.
There are lots of reasons Ukraine isn't part of NATO. The first one is that Ukraine made a political commitment with Russia to remain neutral. The second is that Russia made it clear that Ukrainian neutrality was to be respected by NATO allies. The third is that the USA knew how dangerous it would be to bring Ukraine in so they worked on every other former Soviet Republic first. The fourth is that the NATO allies don't all agree on bringing Ukraine in. And the fifth is that NATO policy forbids admitting a country in an active border dispute.
You can say that nukes make it WW3, but that's just vibes. World war is when a war between 2 countries expands to include more countries. Right now, the war is between Russia and Ukraine. If the USA gets involved, then the USA is escalating to world wars. Your vibes are not the standard.
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Lysergid
in reply to freagle • • •don't like this
☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ doesn't like this.
trebor_project
in reply to freagle • • •What?
There is no chance of this....
No one is even suggesting it.
Seriously touch grass
freagle
in reply to trebor_project • • •There is no chance of the USA attacking Russian territory? Really? The USA has trainers, weapons, supply chains, recon, targeting intelligence, all confirmed on the ground on the ground in Ukraine and likely multiple unconfirmed capabilities on the ground as well. There is ABSOLUTELY a large chance of the USA attacking Russian territory.
ATACMS are USA weapons, that require USA training and often USA/NATO operators to function, USA personnel for maintenance and repair, etc. Each incremental escalation brings us closer to USA actors pulling a trigger to hit a target in Russian sovereign territory. The USA is salami slicing right now, and Russia is 100% correct to call it out, take preventative action, and prepare for escalation.
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davel
in reply to Lysergid • • •You mean the democratically elected government, which was replaced by a US-backed coup “government”[1]?
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☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
in reply to vzq • • •trebor_project
in reply to freagle • • •yes, exactly.
Unless Iran is attacking Ukrainian territory. Seriously, this is complete bollocks.
"The USA is salami..." And yet it is Russia who is attacking other countries and annexing territory... not the US.
You are really full of shit here.
freagle
in reply to trebor_project • • •Yeah. You're not paying attention. No one is disputing that Russia invaded Ukraine. Invading Ukraine is not a casus belli for the USA. They don't have any standing to enter the war, but they are salami slicing their way to direct involvement. Again, they have boots on the ground in Ukraine already and they are heavily involved in the conflict. This particular move, to use ATACMS on Russian territory is, in fact, an escalation towards greater risk of US direct involvement.
The only one full of shit is the person who thinks Russia invading Ukraine justifies any and every action the USA chooses to take.
lemmyseizethemeans
in reply to Sagittarii • • •trebor_project
in reply to lemmyseizethemeans • • •How exactly should the world deal with a fanatic armed with nukes?
RedWizard [he/him, comrade/them]
in reply to trebor_project • • •trebor_project
in reply to RedWizard [he/him, comrade/them] • • •Babs [she/her]
in reply to trebor_project • • •trebor_project
in reply to Babs [she/her] • • •Capitulate at every single threat?
robinn_ [he/him]
in reply to trebor_project • • •trebor_project
in reply to robinn_ [he/him] • • •trebor_project
in reply to robinn_ [he/him] • • •"NATO did exactly what they recognized for decades would push Russia to invade."
Which is nothing.
"Ask how Russia should deal with a foreign power covertly manipulating their neighbor’s politics to elevate Nazis who would go on to bomb Russian speakers."
LOL
Now you are into delusional crackpot territory.
davel
in reply to trebor_project • • •Are you a troll, or do you simply not know anything?
... show more- George Washington Univ., 2017: NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner
- Orinoco Tribune, 2022: Former German Chancellor Merkel Admits that Minsk Peace Agreements Were Part of Scheme for Ukraine to Buy Time to Prepare for War With Russia
- Al Mayadeen, 2023: Zelensky admits he never
Are you a troll, or do you simply not know anything?
- George Washington Univ., 2017: NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner
- Orinoco Tribune, 2022: Former German Chancellor Merkel Admits that Minsk Peace Agreements Were Part of Scheme for Ukraine to Buy Time to Prepare for War With Russia
- Al Mayadeen, 2023: Zelensky admits he never intended to implement Minsk agreements
- Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace
- Jeffrey Sachs, 2023: NATO Chief Admits NATO Expansion Was Key to Russian Invasion of Ukraine
trebor_project
in reply to davel • • •Putin is a fascist.
That is a fact. (so is Trump for that matter)
Fascists should be opposed, this is also a fact.
My question is why do you uncritically support fascists?
davel
in reply to trebor_project • • •[Citation needed]
trebor_project
in reply to davel • • •Seems clear to me.
davel
in reply to trebor_project • • •Fidel_Cashflow
in reply to davel • • •robinn_ [he/him]
in reply to trebor_project • • •Wrt doing “nothing”:
reuters.com/world/putin-russia…
June 2022 WSJ/National Opinion Research Center poll showed 55% of Ukrainians believed NATO (and 58% wrt the US, 70% wrt the Ukrainian govt.) bears some/a great deal of responsibility for the Russian invasion and ongoing war.
(and below)
Wrt “covertly manipulating their neighbor’s politics to elevate Nazis”:
jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-pro…
nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-…
docs.google.com/document/d/17n…
And wrt “bomb[ing] Russian speakers”:
youtu.be/1fsMqYqHnN0
web.archive.org/web/2023032023…
Babs [she/her]
in reply to trebor_project • • •trebor_project
in reply to Babs [she/her] • • •RedWizard [he/him, comrade/them]
in reply to trebor_project • • •Assian_Candor [comrade/them]
in reply to trebor_project • • •Who cares
Seriously
Would you rather you and your whole family gets killed or the lines on the map say Russia? You still don't own the means of production so same shit different asshole.
There is no bourgeois capitalist cause that's worth the death of a single civilian
Fidel_Cashflow
in reply to trebor_project • • •MarxMadness
in reply to trebor_project • • •What's stopping you from going to Ukraine and fighting?
Everyone talks big about war, they just want someone else to fight it
robinn_ [he/him]
in reply to trebor_project • • •trebor_project
in reply to robinn_ [he/him] • • •Iran I'm guessing did not care which hospital their weapons landed in.
robinn_ [he/him]
in reply to trebor_project • • •Truly brilliant. Also there is no evidence the DPRK is deploying troops to attack Ukraine.
trebor_project
in reply to robinn_ [he/him] • • •Way more than your imagined threat to "russian" speakers in ukraine.
davel
in reply to trebor_project • • •Reasserting your empty claim is not evidence.
... show moreYou have got to be fucking kidding me.
- BBC, 2014: Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict
- Human Rights Watch, 2014: Ukraine: Unguided Rockets Killing Civilians
- Consortium News, 2015: The Mess That Nuland Made Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences.
- The Hill, 2017:
Reasserting your empty claim is not evidence.
You have got to be fucking kidding me.
- BBC, 2014: Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict
- Human Rights Watch, 2014: Ukraine: Unguided Rockets Killing Civilians
- Consortium News, 2015: The Mess That Nuland Made Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine’s regime change without weighing the likely consequences.
- The Hill, 2017: The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
- The Guardian, 2017: 'I want to bring up a warrior': Ukraine's far-right children's camp – video
- WaPo, 2018: The war in Ukraine is more devastating than you know
- Reuters, 2018: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
- The Nation, 2019: Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
- openDemocracy, 2019: Why Ukraine’s new language law will have long-term consequences
- Al Jazeera, 2022: Why did Ukraine suspend 11 ‘pro-Russia’ parties?
- NYT, 2024: U.N. Court to Rule on Whether Ukraine Committed Genocide
trebor_project
in reply to davel • • •"You have got to be fucking kidding me."
Send in the Wagner PMC group (named after Hitler's favourite composer and co founded by a NAZI) to oppose them
Because of course Russia does not have a NAZI problem.
(Shame Prigozhin got out of line and had to be murdered in the end.)
"Reasserting your empty claim is not evidence."
If you spent 20 seconds more looking you would have found more news reports of the North Korean troops. But you didn't.
And I'm not bothering.
davel
in reply to trebor_project • • •I’ve seen the reports. They say those troops are in Russia. If they’ve done anything to date, they’ve defended Russian territory, in Russia.
trebor_project
in reply to davel • • •LOL
Prigozhin is dead, he's not doing another march on Moscow.
davel
in reply to trebor_project • • •robinn_ [he/him]
in reply to trebor_project • • •Show it then? It would be much more effective than “yes there is.”
lemmygrad.ml/post/6227475
ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]
in reply to trebor_project • • •You people talk like you think you're at the strategy table in game of thrones, and not one of us mud-covered peasants. I'm willing to bet you know less than nothing about the causes of this war and the dynamics between it's participants.
Naked projection, your side has been bombing hospitals for a year in Palestine and a century everywhere else.
robinn_ [he/him]
in reply to trebor_project • • •lemmyseizethemeans
in reply to trebor_project • • •You misspelled America
I won't bother listing the countries the US has bombed invaded or overthrown governments in the last oh I dunno 100 years
mistahbenny
in reply to lemmyseizethemeans • • •imogen_underscore [it/its, she/her]
in reply to trebor_project • • •trebor_project
in reply to freagle • • •That is true, but then they are not entering the war.
No more than Iran is....
And I like the phrase "boots on the ground"... utterly meaningless.
freagle
in reply to trebor_project • • •responsiblestatecraft.org/2023…
Back in 2023, we had a small leak of documentation establishing almost 100 special forces from NATO countries operating in Ukraine, with almost 20% from the USA.
This according to the NYT.
theintercept.com/2022/10/05/ru…
... show moreresponsiblestatecraft.org/2023…
Back in 2023, we had a small leak of documentation establishing almost 100 special forces from NATO countries operating in Ukraine, with almost 20% from the USA.
This according to the NYT.
theintercept.com/2022/10/05/ru…
intellinews.com/us-says-sendin…
I'm sure you'll be able to find comparable levels of involvement of Iran in the conflict, though. I'll await your sources.
trebor_project
in reply to freagle • • •"I’m sure you’ll be able to find comparable levels of involvement of Iran in the conflict..."
My point was that Russia was using Iranian weapons to attack Ukraine... So by your logic Iran was attacking Ukraine. Especially as they would have had to train Russian troops to use those weapons.
But if you are talking about "boots on the ground" those could not compete with the (at least) 10,000 North Korean troops in Ukraine. So by your logic North Korea are also attacking Ukraine.
Who is escalating here?
As a side note the only person here who is threatening to use nukes again and again is Putin.
freagle
in reply to trebor_project • • •You're right, the transfer of arms between warring and non-warring countries is something of a nuanced problem. On the Iranian side we're talking about cheap drones that Russia could do without, while on the US side the US has sent literally the equivalent of the entire Russian military budget to Ukraine twice. The only reason Ukraine is still standing is because of the USA. This is not true for Russia and Iran. But, there is a case to be made by Ukraine that they might want to launch a war with Iran and DPRK to stop their weapon supplies. When Ukraine decides that, they can prosecute that war.
On the North Korean troops, we still have zero confirmation on them being in Ukraine at all. Only yellow journalism from Ukraine and the West. I will wait till I see proof before I believe it. But again, even if Korea was involved, Ukraine could declare war on DPRK and fight then to stop their support of Russia. Let me know when they decide to do that.
Who is escalating here? The USA. Russia, in 1992, made clear and transparent what they could and could not defend against milita
... show moreYou're right, the transfer of arms between warring and non-warring countries is something of a nuanced problem. On the Iranian side we're talking about cheap drones that Russia could do without, while on the US side the US has sent literally the equivalent of the entire Russian military budget to Ukraine twice. The only reason Ukraine is still standing is because of the USA. This is not true for Russia and Iran. But, there is a case to be made by Ukraine that they might want to launch a war with Iran and DPRK to stop their weapon supplies. When Ukraine decides that, they can prosecute that war.
On the North Korean troops, we still have zero confirmation on them being in Ukraine at all. Only yellow journalism from Ukraine and the West. I will wait till I see proof before I believe it. But again, even if Korea was involved, Ukraine could declare war on DPRK and fight then to stop their support of Russia. Let me know when they decide to do that.
Who is escalating here? The USA. Russia, in 1992, made clear and transparent what they could and could not defend against militarily. They sought a security framework that would mutually maintain the security of Russia, the former Soviet republics, and Western Europe. They even sought to join NATO to achieve this. One of the things Russia stated it could not defend against was a nuclear capability and a ready military presence in Ukraine. To maintain security in the region it was mutually agreed that Ukraine would remain neutral and that NATO would not expand Eastward.
In 1992, after the meeting that established this, Bill Clinton immediately went to his generals and asked for a plan to get Ukraine into NATO. Immediately. Duplicitously. Every expansion of NATO nuclear capabilities and military readiness Eastward was an escalatory step.
Russia, at every turn, warned of the threat but appeased and appeased and appeased because they wanted to be integrated into the world economy and they had established their escalatory red lines. The escalations through the 90s and early oughts were below their red lines.
Then, the escalation got worse. The coup in Ukraine in 2014, where John McCain and Victoria Nuland were on the ground celebrating, was a clear escalation along a security red line and for that Russia responded by annexing Crimea.
The escalation from the West continues as Ukraine began killing ethnic Russians in the Donbass and Ukraine and the political elite of the US got closer. The escalation got to the point where Russia had credible intelligence of military readiness being deployed at the Ukraine border and political discussions of admitting Ukraine into NATO.
Again, Russia chose not to appease this escalation and launched an SMO to create a limited invasion to achieve several goals: 1) protect ethnic Russians in the Donbass, 2) engage Ukraine in a border dispute so it couldn't join NATO, and 3) militarize the border to establish readiness in the face of increasing escalation.
Russia was immediately willing to negotiate with Ukraine but the US and UK made it clear that Ukraine was not allowed to negotiate on its own behalf. Instead they essentially delivered more materiel than Russia's entire military budget for 2 years. Each delivery was an escalation of more and more lethal technologies, but was also coupled with intelligence, special forces, and other actions, each of which were escalations.
Russia has responded to each escalation. But Russia itself has clear goals that it has stated from the outset and has been willing to negotiate on for literal years. And they are the same goals they stated in 1992 while negotiating with the lying duplicitous Americans.
As for whether Russia is the only one threatening nukes, I think you'll find that the USA unilaterally withdrew from multiple nuclear treaties, has openly stated they were building a nuclear kill chain in the Pacific to counter China, openly discussed winning a nuclear exchange, openly discussed developing tactical nuclear weapons, and is the only nuclear power to have ever used nukes against targets. Those targets were primarily civilians, by the way.
So, you can continue to pretend that history started when you want it to, you can pretend that Ukraine and USA are passive victims with no agency who have never done anything that could be considered escalation, and you can pretend that the USA deploying nuclear-armed submarines to Korea and nuclear-armed b52s to West Asia are not threats of nuclear war, but if you do, there's just no reason to engage with you because you're not participating in reality.
Grapho
in reply to Sagittarii • • •Welp there goes my fucking sleep for tonight. I wish Washington and Langley alone would somehow disappear off the face of the earth and solve half the problems in the world overnight.
Why the fuck does the rest of the world have to risk a nuclear extinction (and a climate one, honestly) just because the US are too fucking stupid and greedy to let go of a single cent in the world.
realharo
in reply to Grapho • • •This instance is hilarious.
The notion that Russia doesn't need to invade or make nuclear threats is completely unthinkable around these parts.
If you just analyze the 1000 most recent posts on the local worldnews, it's pretty openly a propaganda channel.
Grapho
in reply to realharo • • •Fuck off, Americans might not have a working memory longer than the last headline, but I remember the US proudly supporting the maidan coup with congresspeople on the ground, and I remember the US sending billions in weapons, blocking peace talks that a majority of Ukrainians want (because it wOulD bE a cOnCesSiOn) and Biden authorizing the use of NATO weaponry and guidance systems, any of which could reasonably carry a nuclear warhead. Let's not foeget the US is the only country to ever use them on people.
I've been told for a year that the traditional military operation Russia willingly engaged in was a colossal failure and Russia was bound to fall down at the slightest wind, on other threads you stupid gringos are going"lol he won't do it let's keep poking" and then you come on other threads to pretend history starts at the reply and not the provocation.
The rest of the world no longer buys the concern trolling from clueless (or outright malicious) gringos.
The US has done what it's done for over a century, sabotage, start proxy wars and undermine democracy an
... show moreFuck off, Americans might not have a working memory longer than the last headline, but I remember the US proudly supporting the maidan coup with congresspeople on the ground, and I remember the US sending billions in weapons, blocking peace talks that a majority of Ukrainians want (because it wOulD bE a cOnCesSiOn) and Biden authorizing the use of NATO weaponry and guidance systems, any of which could reasonably carry a nuclear warhead. Let's not foeget the US is the only country to ever use them on people.
I've been told for a year that the traditional military operation Russia willingly engaged in was a colossal failure and Russia was bound to fall down at the slightest wind, on other threads you stupid gringos are going"lol he won't do it let's keep poking" and then you come on other threads to pretend history starts at the reply and not the provocation.
The rest of the world no longer buys the concern trolling from clueless (or outright malicious) gringos.
The US has done what it's done for over a century, sabotage, start proxy wars and undermine democracy and when a country replies dumbass fucking libs will start crying about how that country is just being super aggressive for, like, just no reason 😢.
Hemuphone
in reply to Grapho • • •Grapho
in reply to vzq • • •ms.lane
Unknown parent • • •ThePyroPython
in reply to Sagittarii • • •CheeseNoodle
in reply to ThePyroPython • • •So I commented this before, Russia spends the same amount on its nuclear arsenal as the UK, while claiming a far larger arsenal. Even accounting for differences in currency value (so cheaper labour) and assuming Russia has some magical efficiency gains in maintenance its still not enough to even come close to maintaining an arsenal that size. Nukes need the fissile material swapped out every couple of decades or they're just really expensive dirty bombs.
This puts Russia in the position where if they launch a single nuke as a warning there's a genuine chance that it might just fizzle, if that happens it would be crippling to their apperance as a nuclear armed state on the world stage, the embarassment of crossing the ultimate red line with nothing to show for it.
So i guess the answer is the sabre is pretty rusty and it might not snap when rattled but there is a chance it snaps when Putin goes in for a real stab.
Lysergid
in reply to davel • • •vzq
in reply to Grapho • • •Let’s take this metaphor at face value for a second.
What in the endless litany of grievances you call history could possibly justify pressing the launch button at this particular junction in time?
I’m serious, make the best possible case you can for Russia starting a nuclear war right now.
HumanPenguin
in reply to freagle • • •The USA is an Allie of Ukraine. And was helping it fund its defence against Russia before their attack.
It's like your bullshit about the start of the first world war. The UK had a treaty that Germany thought we would ignore. They were warned if they attacked the nation, we would defend them.
That is how international support works. When nations like Russia ignore internarial agreements they make, they threaten the whole world's peace by making it clear their word is not to be trusted.
The whole fucking idea that Russia can attack its neighbours and the rest of the world must mind its own business is a fucking crap attempt to bully the world. Its no more than an attempt by a bully to gaslight the world and unworthy of consideration.
And before you bring it up. Yes, I know the US can be no better when it comes to being an international bully. Does not give Russia an excuse to ignore its own internatioal treaties and threaten the world.
freagle
in reply to HumanPenguin • • •Actually, this entire tragedy is absolutely contextualized by the USA's behavior. The USA has demonstrated, over and over and over that it will launch wars of aggressions against its enemies and it will do so with both its own army and with NATO.
In that context, when the USA spends 30 years saying one thing to Russia and doing another, when it spends decades building forward military bases all over the world to encircle China and Russia, when it moves nuclear-armed submarines and nuclear-armed b52s into theaters on the other side of the world, when it destroys entire countries and rebuilds them as unsinkable aircraft carriers, when it runs military drills that are literally indistinguishable from preparing and launching invasion forces, when it threatens everyone's national security by building capabilities to undermine the international MAD framework, when it regular uses rhetoric saying nuclear strikes are not off the table...
In this context, when the USA is literally taking actions that are known, publicly, internationally, and for decades, to un
... show moreActually, this entire tragedy is absolutely contextualized by the USA's behavior. The USA has demonstrated, over and over and over that it will launch wars of aggressions against its enemies and it will do so with both its own army and with NATO.
In that context, when the USA spends 30 years saying one thing to Russia and doing another, when it spends decades building forward military bases all over the world to encircle China and Russia, when it moves nuclear-armed submarines and nuclear-armed b52s into theaters on the other side of the world, when it destroys entire countries and rebuilds them as unsinkable aircraft carriers, when it runs military drills that are literally indistinguishable from preparing and launching invasion forces, when it threatens everyone's national security by building capabilities to undermine the international MAD framework, when it regular uses rhetoric saying nuclear strikes are not off the table...
In this context, when the USA is literally taking actions that are known, publicly, internationally, and for decades, to undermine the security of Russia, specifically the creation of forward bases in Ukraine along the border that Russia and the world have all shown for centuries is indefensible, a border a long which Russia has been invaded 3 times by Western Europe, the most recent being the Third Reich, where each invasion killed millions of Russians,
Russia's choice to invade it's neighbor actually makes way more sense when you consider this context. In fact, it is the decontextualization that demand and insist on that makes this so difficult to talk about. You, and liberals like you, literally say to ignore the context and just take this incident in isolation and judge it morally, and then only admit limited context in if we isolate that context and judge that context separately and morally, so that you can say "two wrongs don't make a right". This is bullshit. The case for Russia's invasion has everything to do with the context of the behavior of the US and NATO, and in fact the context of Western Europe, and that context reveals for us a process that has been ongoing for over a century.
You don't get to say, "yeah yeah, the USA does bad things but that doesn't give Russia the right...." When literally the exact reason, stated multiple times by Russia, Russian generals, and the Russian president, AND the assessed reason by NATO generals, US generals, US presidents, European and American diplomats, and independent analysts, is the physical, military, strategic threat posed to the world's 3rd biggest military power by the world's 1st biggest military power.
At some point, you will have to acknowledge that the USA and Western European allies have been militarily threatening Russia since Napoleon marched across Europe to invade Russia via Ukraine, and that this did not stop when Russia became the founder of the USSR and it did not stop when the USSR was dismantled and Russia stood alone again. It did not stop under Bush 1, he continued it. It did not stop when Clinton took office, he continued it. It did not stop when Bush took office, he continued it. It did not stop under Obama, he continued it. It did not stop under Trump, he continued it. It did not stop under Biden, he continued it. The military threat to Russia has been there continuously for over 100 years. Russia has been responding to that threat via military interventions into Ukraine starting ont 2014.
When nations like Russia ignore international agreements, it is in the context of the USA ignoring international agreements. You cannot divorce that context and you cannot pretend they are separate. The USA ignoring international agreements and devastating entire nations is exactly the context in which Russia must maintain its national security. And, like most countries, Russia has watched the foremost military power, the current torch holder of the European empire, the same Empire that has invaded Russia multiple times, has watched that empire violate international agreements and kill millions while simultaneously undermining Russian security. At some point, a response was going to happen, and in fact, everyone in the Western establishment knew it would happen when they made moves to bring NATO into Ukraine because everyone in the establishment KNEW it was strategically required for Russia to do so in order to remain safe. EVERYONE KNEW THIS, it was openly discussed. And the USA, under Clinton and every president since, followed Clinton's position that publicly they would tell Russia Ukraine would remain neutral but privately they would spend decades trying to get Ukraine to join the West and be anti-Russia.
Well guess what. When you know exactly what will undermine someone's security and then you spend 30 years making it happen, you're going to get the response you expect.
Open you eyes to the fact that the invasion of Ukraine is exactly what the USA expected to happen (though they didn't know when Russia would choose to react) and they took all the necessary actions to make it happen. The blood of Ukrainians is on the USA's hands.
Grapho
in reply to vzq • • •That the US is letting Ukraine use NATO missiles and guidance systems that could carry a nuclear warhead they've ALWAYS kept a doctrine of first use for. This new doctrine is still not as aggressive as the American one, and this was the entire reason for the conflict, NATO not pointing nuclear weapons at Russia minutes from Moscow. This latest attack was aiming for nuclear infrastructure. How much more provocative does it get?
Americans really need to shut the fuck up about Russia starting a nuclear war when they're the ones instigating and funding conflict and blocking the peace talks Ukrainians want. When Iran gets tired of Israel and the US endlessly massacring civilians over there you chicken hawk libs are gonna pretend they developed nuclear weapons just to be mean.
You really really care about the Ukraine war? Get shipped there so they don't have to kidnap citizens out of weddings to put them on the front line. Otherwise, shut up and stop trying to kill the rest of us with you.
charleroi2
in reply to Sagittarii • • •Grapho
in reply to charleroi2 • • •charleroi2
in reply to Grapho • • •Grapho
in reply to charleroi2 • • •The country with the highest stockpile of nuclear weapons, with battle tested capabilities and the most advanced ICBMs in existence, you doubt they have nukes?
There's drinking the Kool aid and there's this. I'm legitimately amazed that some of you Americans can mouthbreathe and walk at the same time, and more amazed that half the voting population is even dumber than that.
If this stupid provocation only ended up with America in ashes you'd more than have it coming, but unfortunately we share a world and I'd like to keep living in it, not that y'all made it any better due to your absolute nonchalance about climate change.
charleroi2
in reply to Grapho • • •mistahbenny
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •don't like this
☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ doesn't like this.
mistahbenny
in reply to vzq • • •☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
in reply to mistahbenny • • •mistahbenny
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
in reply to mistahbenny • • •mistahbenny
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •vzq
in reply to Grapho • • •ATACMS is not a declared nuclear capable system according to the bilateral and multilateral treaties either country is a part of. Also, remind me what happened to the INF treaty again?
The fact that you have a nuclear first use doctrine does not mean use of nuclear weapons is justified in any scenario. You have offered no justifications.