This entry was edited (1 year ago)
Frys heltidspolitikernas löner. Vänsterpartiet i Göteborg ser det som självklart att politiker inte ska ha skyhöga löner. Därför har det rödgröna styret i Göteborg lagt ett förslag om att fortsätta frysa heltidspolitikernas arvoden i Göteborg.
blog.zaramis.se/2024/12/12/fry…
Postiz v1.10.0 - open-source social media scheduling tool (introducing plugs)
GitHub - gitroomhq/postiz-app: 📨 The ultimate social media scheduling tool, with a bunch of AI 🤖
📨 The ultimate social media scheduling tool, with a bunch of AI 🤖 - gitroomhq/postiz-appGitHub
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Adin Ross asks xQc about Deleting his Twitter Community
- YouTube
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.www.youtube.com
Blinken Admits At Least $10 Million Goes To Taliban
Blinken Admits At Least $10 Million Goes To Taliban
A few short years ago, the Taliban were shooting at U.S. troops, and killing our allies. Now we line their pockets.www.todayisamerica.com
"Interstellar" Did So Well in IMAX It’s Staying in Theaters
‘Interstellar’ Did So Well in IMAX It’s Staying in Theaters
Interstellar will continue playing in IMAX theaters for another week following exceptional demand.Chris McPherson (Collider)
Northern California Man Arrested for Allegedly Flying Drone Over and Photographing Vandenberg Space Force Base
Northern California Man Arrested for Allegedly Flying Drone Over and Photographing Vandenberg Space Force Base
A Northern California man has been arrested on a federal criminal complaint for allegedly flying a drone over and taking photographs of Vandenberg Space Force Base, the Justice Department announced today.www.justice.gov
Lawmaker proposes making flag planting at Ohio State’s stadium a felony
Lawmaker eyes felony for players planting flag
An Ohio lawmaker has proposed making it a felony for players to plant a flag at midfield in Ohio Stadium, following the OSU-Michigan brawl.Arthur Weinstein (Awful Announcing)
Lawmaker proposes making flag planting at Ohio State’s stadium a felony
Lawmaker eyes felony for players planting flag
An Ohio lawmaker has proposed making it a felony for players to plant a flag at midfield in Ohio Stadium, following the OSU-Michigan brawl.Arthur Weinstein (Awful Announcing)
Austin Butler Set to Star as Patrick Bateman in Luca Guadagnino’s ‘American Psycho’ (EXCLUSIVE)
Austin Butler Set to Star in Luca Guadagnino's 'American Psycho'
Austin Butler is set to star as Patrick Bateman in Luca Guadagnino's fresh take on the book 'American Psycho' by Bret Easton Ellis for Lionsgate.Elsa Keslassy (Variety)
in reply to realcaseyrollins
Another glorified sociopath that incels can fawn over while completely missing the underlying critique.
in reply to mortemtyrannis
I don't think that's likely to happen, I'd expect either an over correction in the other direction or something straightforward and boring in the worst case scenarios
Security experts share startling theory about who may be behind mysterious drones in New Jersey and why
Security experts share startling theory about who may be behind mysterious drones in New Jersey and why
The feds have been mum about the daily drone activity in Morris, Passaic, Bergen and Hunterdon counties and beyond since the gizmos were first spotted on Nov. 18.Steve Janoski (New York Post)
New Jersey lawmaker warns mystery drones may originate from Iranian 'mothership': 'Should be shot down'
New Jersey lawmaker warns mystery drones may originate from Iranian 'mothership': 'Should be shot down'
Rep. Jeff Van Drew, R-N.J., cited high-level sources while telling Fox News that mystery drones seen flying over New Jersey could belong to Iran.Taylor Penley (Fox News)
in reply to realcaseyrollins
Deleting this as I've found an article reporting more reliable analysis on the same drones
True confessions time. I’ve been using ChromeOS to run Webdancers since 2015. By switching to Linux, I’m divesting myself of one small piece of my reliance on Google. Plus, I like to tinker with technology and that 13.5” Chromebook screen was getting a little hard on my old eyes.
webdancers.com/from-chromebook…
This entry was edited (1 year ago)
in reply to Greg Falken
Oh, that's an update. I think ChromeOS is not as bad as many people say it is. But the early cut off update wise is a reason I would never buy a Chromebook as a surf machine again.
PeerTube mobile app: discover videos while caring for your attention | JoinPeerTube
PeerTube mobile app: discover videos while caring for your attention | JoinPeerTube
Today, at Framasoft (bonjour!), we publish the very first version of the PeerTube Mobile app for android and iOS. A lot of care went into its concepti...JoinPeerTube
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in reply to fossilesque
Looking forward to the F-droid release - it's a bit ironic that that's the only platform where it is currently not available, considering how it seems to be the reasonable place to get the app.
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Floyd Mayweather attacked by vicious mob in London over support for Israel
Floyd Mayweather attacked by vicious mob in London over support for Israel
Boxing legend Floyd Mayweather was attacked by a vicious mob in London over his support of Israel and the Jewish people, according to witnesses. Mayweather, 47, was out shopping in London’s s…Isabel Keane (New York Post)
Sabata
Unknown parent • • •ArtemisimetrA
in reply to TheArstaInventor • • •TheArstaInventor
Unknown parent • • •I mistakenly used the old photon version, I have updated the post with the image of the new current updated version of Photon.
You can customize photon's post layout to make it more info dense, even more than the newer image I have attached on the post.
TheArstaInventor
Unknown parent • • •technomad
Unknown parent • • •Blisterexe
in reply to technomad • • •right, thank you.
that is an outdated version of phtn though
hobovision
Unknown parent • • •It's got a compact view that is pretty much why I'd be using if I started. I think it makes sense to default to the "cozy" view, even if that is the most bass ackwards naming I've seen. The reason being is that "most" people prefer that view and are the same people that wouldn't bother looking for a setting to change, they'd just nope on out because they got overwhelmed.
Default "cozy" in desktop mode
"compact" in desktop mode
I think compact looks decent in mobile view as well, but since the parent post is about desktop UI that's what I'm showing.
LifeInMultipleChoice
Unknown parent • • •moseschrute
Unknown parent • • •I disagree. I spent some time earlier this year working on a BlueSky client that would work completely without JavaScript. Working without JavaScript means it has to run on a web server somewhere. Using JavaScript means the client can run entirely on your computer with the only dependency being the Lemmy server you connect to. And since there are many Lemmy servers, this means no single entity that can pull the plug on you.
The only alternative I see is a native app that runs a non-JS client on your computer, or maybe WebAssembly? Seriously though, modern JavaScript is actually very capable. You might be dismissing it only because it’s popular to hate on JavaScript or maybe the current Lemmy clients aren’t good. That doesn’t mean the underlying issue is JavaScript.
I’ve abandoned my BlueSky client to work on a Lemmy client that will be written in JS but can run entirely on your computer.
WorldsDumbestMan
in reply to TheArstaInventor • • •morrowind
Unknown parent • • •morrowind
in reply to TheArstaInventor • • •jagged_circle
in reply to moseschrute • • •Bilb!
Unknown parent • • •Blackmist
Unknown parent • • •I think we need many UIs to cater for lots of different types of users and then you just choose the one you want.
Everyone having to use the same thing is what killed reddit for most of us.
RmDebArc_5
in reply to Bilb! • • •Bilb!
in reply to RmDebArc_5 • • •lightnsfw
in reply to hobovision • • •chillinit
Unknown parent • • •neatchee
in reply to chillinit • • •Get ratiod and blocked, weirdo. Go try to impress someone else with your misuse of logical fallacy terminology. Some people might be convinced you're smart but probably only on hexbear lol.
Buh-bye, chief 👋
dukk
Unknown parent • • •Lovable Sidekick
in reply to TheArstaInventor • • •Different OG ex-redditor here. I think Lemmy's UI is vastly superior. But full disclosure, I used old reddit.
How is it clear that Lemmy's growth is nearing a plateau? And why does Lemmy need broader growth? That seems like a solution in search of a problem. A major advantage of not being a corporate social media property is not having to think like one.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Lovable Sidekick • • •Lovable Sidekick
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Lovable Sidekick • • •45k monthly active users on 14 October
44k monthly active users on 11 December
The first graph is generally considered the most relevant to assess the activity on the platform
Sanctus
in reply to TheArstaInventor • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Sanctus • • •That's Tesseract.
Photon is developped by @Xylight@lemm.ee
Sanctus
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •JubilantJaguar
in reply to TheArstaInventor • • •Blaze (he/him)
Unknown parent • • •jagged_circle
in reply to dukk • • •JigglySackles
in reply to TheArstaInventor • • •jagged_circle
in reply to Blackmist • • •Agrivar
Unknown parent • • •Xylight
in reply to TheArstaInventor • • •Hi everyone, I'm the dev. Reading all these comments really hurts when it's something you've poured your heart and soul into for over a year.
There's reasons I do everything I do in this UI, and my primary goal is to make Lemmy accessible for everyone.
This is the "cozy" view as well, but there's a "compact" view for people like me who enjoy more information density. Again, my end goal is to make Lemmy accessible. I don't do this for the sidebars for convoluted reasons I won't get into.
I'm not the one trying to advertise it, and I've never really tried to because of the fear of disapproval. I think I should advertise it myself now because then I can showcase the best parts and not get misunderstood. This screenshot uses the "list" view, imo the worst one, with some cursed chrome scrollbars.
Now that I see that the majority of users believe this sucks, I'm not sure if my mission is worth it or if I'm even doing it right.
I'm probably being too sensitive to criticism which I should expect from any project. But this project is the only one I us
... show moreHi everyone, I'm the dev. Reading all these comments really hurts when it's something you've poured your heart and soul into for over a year.
There's reasons I do everything I do in this UI, and my primary goal is to make Lemmy accessible for everyone.
This is the "cozy" view as well, but there's a "compact" view for people like me who enjoy more information density. Again, my end goal is to make Lemmy accessible. I don't do this for the sidebars for convoluted reasons I won't get into.
I'm not the one trying to advertise it, and I've never really tried to because of the fear of disapproval. I think I should advertise it myself now because then I can showcase the best parts and not get misunderstood. This screenshot uses the "list" view, imo the worst one, with some cursed chrome scrollbars.
Now that I see that the majority of users believe this sucks, I'm not sure if my mission is worth it or if I'm even doing it right.
I'm probably being too sensitive to criticism which I should expect from any project. But this project is the only one I used to feel proud of, then people chiming in claiming it's the ugliest thing they've seen. I don't know im blind to design which is the only thing I considered myself "good" at in terms of web dev.
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Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Xylight • • •Hello @Xylight@lemm.ee ,
First of all, really sorry that you took it that way. A few comments were indeed harsh, and I guess people were just focused on the interface and forgot that there's actually someone behind it.
I personally value Photon a lot, it definitely helps a lot of people who prefer this type of interfaces.
I think you don't even need to advertise it that much. We have Photon as an alternative frontend on one of the instances I follow, and people regularly bug the admin to update it because they like it!
The negativity this post received is probably because interfaces are a very personal matter, and trying to uniformize the default interface is always going to lead to heated discussions
Take care, you are doing an amazing job.
FYI @TheArstaInventor@lemmy.world
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vonbaronhans
in reply to Xylight • • •I assume you mean the dev of Photon UI?
An important thing to remember when it comes to feedback is that there are different audiences. The only feedback you'll get here is from Lemmy users, the people already here, the grognards, the Linux heads who don't understand why anyone would need a GUI at all when the terminal is right there! All to say, a bunch of wads who would rather leave a big community for a smaller one that suits their preferences. They don't know jack all about jack shit when it comes to designing for a general audience.
All to say, if what you want to design is accessibility... solicit feedback from people who need and understand accessibility features. I have no idea where those people are but I bet you're savvy enough to find them.
If you can design something that looks like OP's screenshot (and better, based on your comment), you straight up need not concern yourself with the negative feedback on this thread. Bunch of wankers. Continue being awesome and making awesome stuff!
thatsnothowyoudoit
in reply to Xylight • • •Never used your project but don’t let this thread get you down.
Clearly OP loves it - don’t let those who don’t know it or don’t like it be the voices that ring loudest in your ears even if they hurt the most.
I worked professionally in open source at a company with lots of funding. The tools I worked on were used by millions and millions.
Every negative comment hurt so much. Every angry user I wanted to talk to. Most of them wanted to TALK AT me. It all hurt. And I was being paid. The engineers on my teams were burnt by the community time and time again.
If you love what you’re doing and you have a growing or happy audience - stay the course. Listen to criticism, decide if you agree (and maybe take some time when it hurts because the criticism might be valid), make a decision and move on.
Also, and this is going to be tough, maybe think about expanding or modifying what you mean when you say making Lemmy accessible for everyone.
Do you mean making a UI that will become the majority default or making a UI that bring
... show moreNever used your project but don’t let this thread get you down.
Clearly OP loves it - don’t let those who don’t know it or don’t like it be the voices that ring loudest in your ears even if they hurt the most.
I worked professionally in open source at a company with lots of funding. The tools I worked on were used by millions and millions.
Every negative comment hurt so much. Every angry user I wanted to talk to. Most of them wanted to TALK AT me. It all hurt. And I was being paid. The engineers on my teams were burnt by the community time and time again.
If you love what you’re doing and you have a growing or happy audience - stay the course. Listen to criticism, decide if you agree (and maybe take some time when it hurts because the criticism might be valid), make a decision and move on.
Also, and this is going to be tough, maybe think about expanding or modifying what you mean when you say making Lemmy accessible for everyone.
Do you mean making a UI that will become the majority default or making a UI that brings some features (or perspective) for users who see value in those features? Trying to make something for everyone in a pond as small as the fediverse, where there are already a plethora of options is a big lift.
Above all, do you. And that includes this comment which I encourage you to promptly ignore. ;)
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coronach
in reply to thatsnothowyoudoit • • •TriflingToad
in reply to Xylight • • •Don't take it that way. I find the default UI horrible and primarily use Lemmy on Voyager on my phone because of it. Finding this thread let me find that I can comfortably use Lemmy on desktop too! 🥳
I didn't join Lemmy for a while because I liked the "new" reddit UI better and found Lemmy too different to use easily. I tried all the different options and I didn't like them. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED ON DESKTOP!
And remember survivorship bias. The ones that can put up with the Lemmy UI, or switch to something they like better, are (for the most part) the only ones here now giving feedback.
Sentau
in reply to Xylight • • •Hawk
in reply to Xylight • • •Yeah Lemmy has an unfriendly community. UI is really hard and I know exactly what you mean when you say everything has a reason behind it.
FWIW, Ima migrate my personal private Lemmy to photon because I think it looks great.
Cethin
in reply to Xylight • • •JaggedRobotPubes
in reply to Xylight • • •povario
in reply to Xylight • • •I haven't met a single person that didn't like Photon. Photon is the only reason I started browsing on desktop regularly. It's lean, clean, and packed with gorgeous transitions; I've rarely ever found a project that gets form and function right.
The internet is a shitty place. I'm not surprised that on Lemmy we have shit like
The troll energy is strong, but it doesn't change that this is a great project. Alternative UI's are what make Lemmy unique, and you're doing your part. That's appreciated.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to povario • • •That's indeed unfortunate
lightnsfw
in reply to Xylight • • •My other comment was blunt so here's my attempt to be more constructive, this is all my personal opinion and my reaction was in response to making it the default I don't think that you should stop working on it or even that I am objectively correct.
There is way too much empty space. I don't use it but from OPs screenshot it appears this is to allow for larger thumbnails. It would be better to have them smaller and expandable if someone finds one interesting. Moving the thumbnails to the left of the text would eliminate all the blank space your eyes have to travel across to view them as well.
Shitty microsoft paint edits to demonstrate what I'm trying to say:
Freed up space in green:
Xylight
in reply to lightnsfw • • •lightnsfw
in reply to Xylight • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Xylight • • •That's very important
gandalf_der_12te
in reply to Xylight • • •dizzy
in reply to Xylight • • •Don’t be disheartened. You did a great job with your version.
People complain about Apple and Google UIs that they spend hundreds of millions on creating and user-testing. There’s no one-fits-all in UI or UX.
Avieshek
in reply to dizzy • • •/home/pineapplelover
in reply to TheArstaInventor • • •moseschrute
in reply to jagged_circle • • •AbsoluteChicagoDog
in reply to TheArstaInventor • • •keegomatic
in reply to jagged_circle • • •jagged_circle
in reply to moseschrute • • •ZeroOne
in reply to TheArstaInventor • • •WanderingVentra
in reply to TheArstaInventor • • •PM_Your_Nudes_Please
in reply to WanderingVentra • • •Zement
in reply to TheArstaInventor • • •I like it simple. I use Jerbora on Android and can't be happier. I use duckduckgo browser and it's YouTube mode, so I have no ads, cookies, trackers or popups. It's actually close to perfect.
Compared to e.g. Discord, I feel like wasting most screen real estate for static eye candy info,... no thanks.
pikl
in reply to jagged_circle • • •Blaze (he/him)
Unknown parent • • •You can keep your subscriptions and blocklists using the import export feature in the settings
You can link your old and new accounts in your bio, and keep the same username so that people can recognize you
Valmond
in reply to TheArstaInventor • • •You say that like it's bad 😊
Your points are valid, but you do run on the assumption that growth is good, which is not an universal truth IMO.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Valmond • • •Valmond
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Yes, I just want to point out that opening the floodgates will get you the fish, but also a lot of mud.
What communities do you manage?
Personally I think the day to day UX is fine, but finding communities is the real mess.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Valmond • • •To find communities: !newcommunities@lemmy.world
Valmond
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Thanks!
About link for finding new communities, I worded my request badly, I am not interested in finding new communities, I'm interested in finding specific communities. Thanks though!
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Valmond • • •Newcommunities has posts where the active communities on a topic are posted, so that can help
Also lemmyverse.net/communities
Valmond
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Sure, but it's impractical when you search for a community.
Edit: tried your link, but the search function doesn't seem to work. I searched for "art" and got technology, world news & shit post.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Valmond • • •I just tried, art indeed seems too broad for some reason.
I just tried "television" and got relevant results. "video games" and "trains" work too
There was this post from 4 months ago, I'll start a new one today: lemmy.world/post/19101266
Valmond
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Maybe "art" is just too short a search keyword, but some longer gave quite wonky results too, or just nothing.
Good initiative! (Still doesn't help how to quickly find a community though).
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Valmond • • •What did you try?
Also, the art post for today: lemmy.world/post/23089448
Valmond
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Valmond • • •Valmond
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •I tried to scan the lemmyverse by checking out known instances on my instance, and then check out instances on them and so on, pinging communities for descriptions and posts, but suddenly my instance knew way too many communities and swell up until it went basically unusable so I had to wipe it clean 🥲.
So I tried, but stopped
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Valmond • • •Ah, too bad 😅
There was a tool developed some time ago but I can't find it at the moment
And on Lemmy's side: github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issu…
Valmond
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •adr1an
in reply to TheArstaInventor • • •manicdave
in reply to jagged_circle • • •4Robato
in reply to TheArstaInventor • • •I don't think the problem is the UI. Fediverse is more complex by nature than a centralized platform.
You have to choose a server, then an app to visualize (not only online but on the phone too) and there's plenty of alternatives.
If everybody joined the same server we end up with a centralized system and if every large server has to use specific UI what's the point on decentralizing?
I also thought that fediverse had to try to be easier to use but the point is that it's more complicated precisely because the user has more power and hence has to do more decisions.
And I think people have to understand the basics of the fediverse, otherwise people will not stay precisely because it's more complicated. If I didn't care a bit I would be on Reddit not here and I'm currently using both because there's simply much more content there and hopefully with time I can use Lemmy more and less reddit. I'm willing to do the effort of slowly transitioning because I believe in this but people who doesn't care won't stick around.
Womble
Unknown parent • • •Lovely debating strategy, name drop a philospoher, pretend thats an argument and then instead of saying how said philosopher actually supports what you are saying accuse others of ignorance.
A well earned block for you :)
chillinit
in reply to Womble • • •I give what others are prepared to receive. If you wanted to know then you'd ask. You're not asking so I'm teaching you how to learn. You're not learning that. I'm not the one to teach you or you're just not ready, yet.
I can't afford to care about you personally any more than I've already.
Good luck and goodbye.
jagged_circle
in reply to manicdave • • •FrostyTrichs
in reply to TheArstaInventor • • •For those who may not be aware there are alternative front ends available for Lemmy.
MLMYM is like old reddit. You can see what it looks like here:
mlmym.walledgarden.xyz
Voyager is multi platform interface that also offers a Lemmy frontend. Our implementation is here:
voyager.walledgarden.xyz
Grilipper54
in reply to FrostyTrichs • • •TheV2
in reply to TheArstaInventor • • •secret300
in reply to TheArstaInventor • • •netvor
in reply to TheArstaInventor • • •How are you supporting that belief? Any data? Any A/B testing?
I don't want to sound too harsh, but you have sort of marked yourself as a representative of "average OG ex-redditor" or "average joe". Actually, you refer to "average" quite a lot. But honestly, without any supporting evidence, it's just words to make the proposal more appealing or relevant. If we remove all this cruft (which might be supported by anecdotal study, but that should barely count, if even), what arguments are here that actually remain?
Don't get me wrong, if you said that you like "something like Photon" more than the current default UI, then great! It is awesome that other alternatives exist and when people find them, it's great to share the review. (It's how I have discovered so much of great software!) But then again, it's all subjective, right? In your proposal, you seem to tend to state lot of these subjective opinions as if they were objective, which to
... show moreHow are you supporting that belief? Any data? Any A/B testing?
I don't want to sound too harsh, but you have sort of marked yourself as a representative of "average OG ex-redditor" or "average joe". Actually, you refer to "average" quite a lot. But honestly, without any supporting evidence, it's just words to make the proposal more appealing or relevant. If we remove all this cruft (which might be supported by anecdotal study, but that should barely count, if even), what arguments are here that actually remain?
Don't get me wrong, if you said that you like "something like Photon" more than the current default UI, then great! It is awesome that other alternatives exist and when people find them, it's great to share the review. (It's how I have discovered so much of great software!) But then again, it's all subjective, right? In your proposal, you seem to tend to state lot of these subjective opinions as if they were objective, which to me makes the proposal just far less convincing.
netvor
Unknown parent • • •So what?
I'm sure you know that the value of a user or an opinion has nothing to do with their age.
Why be ageist to yourself?
netvor
Unknown parent • • •What is the difference between
* (A) - an opportunistic capitalist capturing the market and drive community maintained options into obscurity
* and (B) - someone trying to convince a small community to change, purportedly in order to avoid (A)?
If you trying to protecting a small community, but your solution somehow requires that community to be more like the big ones, then I guess you don't understand the point why small communities even exist in the first place.
It's like coming to a small coffee shop somewhere in a side street of Prague and arguing that the shop should be more like Starbucks, because if you don't become more like Starbucks, Starbucks will win. Win what? If all you care is money then yes, but again, that's not why small businesses exist. (Which is what (pseudo-)capitalists and tech bros find so impossible to understand.)
Human greed is not inherently bad, greed can often be legit justified as attempt to safeguard for future. That's fine, we should do that, but it becomes destructive when it's not balanced with the reasons behind why things are the way they are now.
The Bard in Green
in reply to netvor • • •neatchee
in reply to netvor • • •If the goal of Lemmy - and specifically lemmy.world is to be a boutique, niche aggregator then fine. But that is explicitly NOT the goal. That may be what some users want but they are free to go form their own small servers and isolate as much as they want
I am not suggesting that every community needs to be growth-oriented. Small groups are great.
But they are also weak, and virtually incapable of creating and maintaining the systemic change required to protect themselves long term.
If the attitude is "let the capitalists take over everything else, I'm happy with my underground movement that struggles to survive" then that's honestly bordering on selfish. "I'm happy so I don't care about what happens to others. They can figure out how to find us and do what we do or get fucked" kind of energy. It's privileged in the extreme
The best way for small communities to thrive is through collective action. And in order for that to happen there need to be enough small communities to have any sort of influence as a collective. And in order for that
... show moreIf the goal of Lemmy - and specifically lemmy.world is to be a boutique, niche aggregator then fine. But that is explicitly NOT the goal. That may be what some users want but they are free to go form their own small servers and isolate as much as they want
I am not suggesting that every community needs to be growth-oriented. Small groups are great.
But they are also weak, and virtually incapable of creating and maintaining the systemic change required to protect themselves long term.
If the attitude is "let the capitalists take over everything else, I'm happy with my underground movement that struggles to survive" then that's honestly bordering on selfish. "I'm happy so I don't care about what happens to others. They can figure out how to find us and do what we do or get fucked" kind of energy. It's privileged in the extreme
The best way for small communities to thrive is through collective action. And in order for that to happen there need to be enough small communities to have any sort of influence as a collective. And in order for that to happen, there needs to be an entry-point into the collective that is accessible to newcomers.
That is what Lemmy - and especially lemmy.world - have positioned themselves to be. It's not dissimilar to Mastodon(.social)
netvor
in reply to neatchee • • •I think a good attitude is "let there be a thousand boutiques" and "let everyone know there is choice, and let's work together the choice is real (ie. as little lock-in as possible)". It's not necessarily bad if there is one or few big ones. I'm perfectly fine with people going to Starbucks (heck, even I used to, before I moved to a place where there's a superior small coffee shop right next to my house).
I don't think the point about "weakness" of small groups is a very strong one. (No pun intended.) What other types of small groups are weak? Are music bands also weak? Maybe not Metallica, but what about your local alt rock band? What about families, are they also weak?
The "weakness" is relevant if we're thinking about the potential of other subjects abusing or exploiting them (an boy do we know how capitalism excels at this game). That's why we should have systems in place which serve to protect them: not just merely on the basis that they are weak, but on the basis that the diversity is good, if not necessary, for the society as a whole.
But back to
... show moreI think a good attitude is "let there be a thousand boutiques" and "let everyone know there is choice, and let's work together the choice is real (ie. as little lock-in as possible)". It's not necessarily bad if there is one or few big ones. I'm perfectly fine with people going to Starbucks (heck, even I used to, before I moved to a place where there's a superior small coffee shop right next to my house).
I don't think the point about "weakness" of small groups is a very strong one. (No pun intended.) What other types of small groups are weak? Are music bands also weak? Maybe not Metallica, but what about your local alt rock band? What about families, are they also weak?
The "weakness" is relevant if we're thinking about the potential of other subjects abusing or exploiting them (an boy do we know how capitalism excels at this game). That's why we should have systems in place which serve to protect them: not just merely on the basis that they are weak, but on the basis that the diversity is good, if not necessary, for the society as a whole.
But back to Lemmy: well, I agree with basically all your points, but do we agree on what constitutes "accessible to newcomers"? We might not.
Personally I think current UI is pretty close to perfect: things like zoom, middle click (to open new tab) just work, it does not run too much Javascript, the text editor is responsive, layout of the page is obvious and efficient, overall there is not too much clutter--for me those things are SO much essential in how welcome I'm going to feel here.
And well, people will often say that maybe my tastes are niche because I'm a tech-savvy user or whatnot, I'm tired of that BS already. I don't think my mom would prefer cluttered, unreliable page which breaks or loses focus the moment you dare to zoom or change width of the window (eg. by flipping phone on a side). (Here I'm not at all describing Photon at all, I'm merely listing things that annoy me on so many other pages, while current Lemmy UI just gets them right.)
If people want change, they should back it up with more than what I see in this thread, most of which boils down to
* "I like Photon more" -- fine (also subjective),
* "I think (it its obvious that) newcomers will like Photon more" -- sure, but kinda arrogant to push that too hard without a really good evidence.
* "The other [insert some big site which is a BS comparison as their success heavily relies on lock-in or marketing] page looks more like Photon, and that means they are good to newcomers, we should mimic that (...lest we perish)!", yeah, let's be a cargo-cult.
netvor
in reply to The Bard in Green • • •Nah I just responded to a minor part (which I might have misunderstood). Sorry ... 😈 🤣 .
I actually agree with everything in your post.
neatchee
in reply to netvor • • •I think we have far more that we agree on in this conversation than we disagree on. We can get into the minutiae of specific UIs but that probably misses the point.
Where I agree with OP is on the first impression of the default Lemmy UI to users trying to migrate from big-corpo products
For better or worse, these folks have come to believe that "slick looking" = thoughtfully designed = featureful and advanced. And that "sterile/boring looking" = amateur UX design = complicated and difficult
We can't break that mentality in the general public by simply repeating over and over that they're wrong. It just doesn't work that way, sadly.
On my Mastodon server, we have the Elk frontend available and have it listed prominently right next to the sign-up/sign-in button as a "Twitter-friendly UI experience" (also on our About page). Then, we periodically throw up an announcement telling users that apps, Elk, etc don't provide all of the features available on the modified webUI/PWA, along with a list of what they're missing and how to learn more.
It's an "abopt,
... show moreI think we have far more that we agree on in this conversation than we disagree on. We can get into the minutiae of specific UIs but that probably misses the point.
Where I agree with OP is on the first impression of the default Lemmy UI to users trying to migrate from big-corpo products
For better or worse, these folks have come to believe that "slick looking" = thoughtfully designed = featureful and advanced. And that "sterile/boring looking" = amateur UX design = complicated and difficult
We can't break that mentality in the general public by simply repeating over and over that they're wrong. It just doesn't work that way, sadly.
On my Mastodon server, we have the Elk frontend available and have it listed prominently right next to the sign-up/sign-in button as a "Twitter-friendly UI experience" (also on our About page). Then, we periodically throw up an announcement telling users that apps, Elk, etc don't provide all of the features available on the modified webUI/PWA, along with a list of what they're missing and how to learn more.
It's an "abopt, extend, extinguish" approach and it works. There's a reason corporate enshitification pioneered that strategy. We can use it too, but for good :)
netvor
in reply to neatchee • • •👍
Well that's a good point, I'd say if someone's attention cannot be captured by the content, then that's a different kind of audience.
I'm probably the opposite: my favorite chat technology is (you guessed it) IRC. (Not despite, but, among other things, because of its minimalism making it much more accessible, since with clients like control over color themes is a non-issue, as well as over distractions such as pictures, website previews or animations.) It's a learned lesson though, I've just been using computers for long enough that I've simply learned that things that are full of whistles and bells are almost always ADHD minefields, if not outright waste of time. I've lear
... show more👍
Well that's a good point, I'd say if someone's attention cannot be captured by the content, then that's a different kind of audience.
I'm probably the opposite: my favorite chat technology is (you guessed it) IRC. (Not despite, but, among other things, because of its minimalism making it much more accessible, since with clients like control over color themes is a non-issue, as well as over distractions such as pictures, website previews or animations.) It's a learned lesson though, I've just been using computers for long enough that I've simply learned that things that are full of whistles and bells are almost always ADHD minefields, if not outright waste of time. I've learned far, far, far more from man pages in terminal than Stack Overflow (and that's not even whistle-bell-ey thing.)
Human preferences can be mind-boggling. For f-'s sake if there's anything that traumatized me more than having to use threads in Google Chat, it's that I've heard people say they liked it. Yeah, I don't think I've ever recovered from that. It's like clicking the really wrong link on p
||nhub.That's why I'm not suggesting to do that.
The right way is just to do the right thing and let the users find out that (or whether) the stereotype is wrong. It's an uphill battle but IMO that's just how it works; the good forms will win over long time; they just need to be maintained with patience and honesty. That's why I'm against this proposal which seems to be just guessing what some unspecified (but large, trust me) group of users surely want.
I guess my point is that you taking it on yourself to distinguish what is "good" or "bad" -- that's the problematic part. (I see that you did not mean that seriously, though...)
threelonmusketeers
Unknown parent • • •I do, and can verify that it does ignore a single return character.
Encephalotrocity
in reply to threelonmusketeers • • •