People that shy away from this stuff are almost always rich people that are intentionally unsympathetic to the plight of poor people.

[citation needed]

Lol, say you are a westerner liberal without saying you are a westerner liberal

Tsk, tsk. Upvoting yourself from alt accounts is generally a bannable offense. I’ve reported you.

Do you have any evidence?

kbin.earth/m/fediverse@lemmy.w…

Note the upvote from his alt on programming.dev, along with two suspect upvotes from other @infosec.pub accounts at exactly the same time. The one from @lemmy.eco.br seems like it could be real.

Don't get me wrong, I recognize it's a solid instance and I am going to continue engaging in their communities.

Just the admin reaction was a bit strange. I think mods/admins need to try and take a neutral position as much as possible (exceptions notwithstanding).

Right on, dude. It would be refreshing to see right-wing arguments advocating a serious fact-based (instead of hate-based and/or lie-based) position on any issue. I'd still disagree, but I'd welcome that disagreement.

Until that glorious future when "the right will reconnect with reality, integrity and simple decency," I am delighted that they're underrepresented on Lemmy.

We don't have to have an argument over it. It's ok to have a conversation. I'm familiar with the 'liberals are right wing' talking point.

I'm just trying to understand what exactly it is that defines 'right wing' and how we define 'liberalism' . You're right, it IS a semantic discussion, but clearly the implication is that liberalism is on par with being right wing. So, nonetheless, a semantic relabeling which is not devoid of consequences.

So I'm wondering, at what point do those two overlap (liberalism and right wing politics)? Is it the right to private property? Beyond that, what exactly makes liberalism 'right wing'?

Brazilian, eh? You mean the country with higher GDP/capita than no less than nine European countries?

Stop pretending to know, in any shape or form, what it is like to be born in Burundi. And don't pretend you're not a colonial state, you're barely better than the US when it comes to fucking over the indigenous population and that's not a high standard.

Stop pretending that 7:1 is an everyday occurrence and count those stars on your jersey.

Yeah hasn't been helpful for getting a sense for the minds of the masses but generally a lot more grounded than reddit

Also though echo chambers are bad most of the time for most people, occasionally they help in challenging our own beliefs but only when engaged critically.

Overall the people here are nicer.

The extremes are higher though - some people were booted from Reddit for a reason, and they came here.

What did I say, in my comment, to address exactly what you just repeated?

Specifically I'm interested in this part:

Yeah, there was certainly a lot of propaganda and lies to help elect Donald, but let’s be very real here - leftists not voting or voting third party over Gaza wasn’t a major part of his victory.

That had a very specific answer in the comment you're replying to.

Every time anyone mentions on Lemmy right wing positions it is with only to attack a strawman version

It would help if you would be more precise. You are using a "feels like" statement here, which I have to disagree with b/c it is objectively false: all it would take would be to find a singular example wherein it was not true, at which point "every time" is shown to be invalid.

But often that does occur, yes. Sometimes our choice of wording can impede rather than aid in understanding?

And I say this as someone who seems to be more often misunderstood than not, go figure :-|.

I absolutely think that's the idea, yes.

The world is a complicated place. Part of the optimization our brain does, to even be able to make sense of it at all without being overwhelmed, is to absorb things that you see other people saying to each other, and incorporate them into how you see the world. So I'm always interested when I see a variety of people all saying the same thing, even though that thing is demonstrably not true if you think for yourself for a few seconds.

In this case I think it's just some kind of internal cope that they're doing for themselves, and the repetition leading to other people potentially absorbing it is purely accidental, but it's still a dangerous pattern.

Discuss.Online seems that way.

Perhaps lemmy.today although that barely has any local content.

lemmy.ca? It does have a politicalmemes@lemmy.ca but other stuff too:-).

I agree with all of this. However, and I could be wrong, my understanding of classic liberalism is that it was never directly opposed to regulation or social services. My initial understanding is that it's by necessity tied to free markets and private property.

But if it is then I'm learning something new.

I tend to love reading your comments - they are insightful and deep:-).

When people behave identically as a "bot" would - passing along what it has heard, without thinking twice or even so much as once about it - they can act as part of that same, dark anti-pattern. Except the danger is so much more real then b/c they "genuinely" hold their belief?

I thought that a lot of it was due to enshittification reasons to maximize profit incentive, e.g. making it hard to "search" on Reddit, yet exceedingly easy to "post", while at the same time making it harder to read the community rules prior to doing so, all to maximize "engagement". But it seems more related to human nature, which will never change.

Oh no, the poor right whingers aren’t being represented here.

Oh wait, good. Fuck ‘em.

Huge strength.

The alternative is Reddit or 4Chan if you want centrist or right wing takes. I know which of the 3 platforms I want.

Seeing this place run by individuals with a commitment to creating a better social environment is also a huge plus. You wouldn’t get that under a non-leftist platform.

You took a bad position, I clarified why it was unfounded.

That's called a discussion. You are entitled to post your opinion, I am entitled to provide a rebuttal.

That's how discourse works.

They still have to suffer from shiti health insurance...

But sure let's make sure nobody but a good neo libs "allies" are permitted here champ

In your country sure.

And who the fuck wants neo libs here? Neo libs (and libs) are right wing ideologies.

Exactly. Judgement is such hard work - best to avoid it when possible, but if necessary, not shy away from it either. Although in the latter case some WORK needs to be put in, if the desire is to do it correctly.

So many people claiming "bUt i WaS BaNNeD foR beInG ToO FrIenDlY, i'M ReaLlY sUcH a nIcE gUy", when it is patently obvious to anyone who looks that that is not the case.

Not everywhere though - e.g. lemm.ee tries to keep things open, at least on the instance level, and the anarchist servers (chiefly lemmy.dbzer0.com but iirc slrpnk.net as well) very much do not remove things that many people would expect them to if they had been more driven by a more authoritarian mindset.

In our new community !AskUSA@discuss.online for instance, I very much hope that we can remove comments that attempt such a shouting-down as would make people feel unwelcomed to be there - regardless of their political affiliation (so long as the people being shouted down do not DESERVE it for trolling, e.g. "my reason for helping the less fortunate than myself is my belief in the Christian God who guides all my ways" is absolutely fine but "your gawd is shit and u r too, l0s3r" is not).

Agreed but I want to push you to go further: it's not just politics that has been so influenced.

Even Google searches - once world-renowned for their recall and precision and overall helpfulness, now are shit. Reddit as well. Twitter... well, apparently was always a hellhole? YouTube was not though - until it was bought by Google.

Enshittification destroys all that it touches. Even/especially governments. Though the same happened to Rome, so many thousands of years ago. And to Russia too, more recently, despite it ostensibly calling itself "communist"/leftist.

I do think that there was a plan to help move it along, but I also think that it might have been an inevitable consequence of (more or less) entirely unfettered capitalism, and that those two worked together to destroy a nation that once was struggling far less than it seems to be doing lately?

"For example, in terms of attracting new users" - meaning that's the whole point of the question, so I'll address that.

Lemmy isn't a corporation and doesn't have to think like one. Market share means nothing. The goal is a high-quality app that does what its users want. If a majority of those users have a similar range of political views, that's just how it works out. There's nothing stopping ultra-conservatives from spinning up Lemmy instances if they want, blocking communities whose overall personality they don't like, and banning users they don't like. If this balkanizes the lemmy userverse, I don't see that as an issue.

I think its one of the reasons reddit will never reach the mainstream like reddit. For one people find it confusing to find a community which I disagree with, you just need to take a slight effort to understand that you have a choice of community and in return you get great freedom. Since its mostly for more techies I and its overwhelmingly like left, people with moderate right views will feel like they're completely out of place.

Im also sad that many of the bigger communities like ml have unhinged mods that ban for anyone disagreeing with them. For example some calls for violence being overwhelmingly onesided on here made me feel sick at times. But I don't feel like sparking that debate over here.

But another question, "are you ok with sitting at the bar with nazis, but they're wearing red shirts with a hammer and sickle on them and espousing the same propensity for murder?"

Lemmy is fine with murder and genocide so long as you wear the right shirt while doing it.

Source: .ml, grad, hexbear.

The presence of the high end of the extreme is what blew me away though. On Reddit I had given up all hope bc it never happened (even from myself, as I kept becoming more defensive, more snarky but less kind) while here the fact that it sometimes, heck even often happens, is just... outstanding! 😍

Also the low end of the extreme is concentrated into specific instances, such that blocking Lemmygrad.ml and hexbear.net will improve someone's experience on the Fediverse by ~90%, and then blocking users from lemmy.ml (with the PieFed Lemmy alternative, or either the Sync or Connect Lemmy apps, or lemmy.cafe, dubvee.org, or quokk.au at the instance admin level) improves by a further 90% I found.

So the structure of the curve matters greatly here, to someone's quality of experiences in the Fediverse.