Vous pourriez relayer la seconde pétition ? Et celle contre l'aide à mourir aussi, tant qu'à faire ?

@politipet

#AltText4You

Headline from the Independent:

Trump administration intervenes to help block law requiring priests to report child abuse

Includes photo of Trump at the Al Smith dinner, seated next to a (high-ranking?) Catholic church official wearing a red skullcap.

Text continues: A federal judge has ruled that Catholic priests in Washington state cannot be required to report child abuse or neglect they learn about through confession after the Trump administraiton intervened in their favor - arguing the law “deprives Catholic priests of their fundamental right to freely exercise their religous beliefs, as guaranteed under the First Amendment.” It comes fter the Trump administration cut funding for investigating child sexual abuse, and refused to release promised documents about the crimes and associates of Jeffrey Epstein

@Edelruth But it's not about the crime. That pedophilia is a crime is not a primary cause, it's an effect.

The fact that it's a crime is derived from the inalienable human rights of the child. It's as inalienable as the right to freedom of religion, but - in classic "your right to swing your fists stops at my nose" manner, if exercising your right harms the rights of another, that's a problem.

It's true that pedophiles may stop confessing if they know their priests...

@CppGuy @jdeisenberg

@CppGuy @jdeisenberg
3/3
Because if a pedophile cannot trust their priest to be their intermediary with God, then they will not confess.

I realised there was no god when I was very young. Frankly, all it took was a sliver of permission to go with what I knew was real.

But, I know that every human has a belief system that is essential to them.

If you don't like Catholicism, don't be Catholic, but don't tell a religion to change it's 2k years old sacraments. And to no helpful end.

@Edelruth... talk to the police.

But that's not the problem here. The problem only starts *when* they have confessed, and at that point, the rights of a child have already been violated.

Talking about prevention here leads off on a different track.

That's an important track for sure. Granting safe haven to someone violating the human rights of others doesn't seem like the right path to prevention, though.

Prevention needs to occur *beforehand*.

So priests reporting...

@CppGuy @jdeisenberg

@Edelruth... to the police arguable does nothing whatsoever to worsen the situation wrt prevention.

But it does help children who have already been harmed.

If you seek prevention, that's along a different road altogether.

@CppGuy @jdeisenberg

@jens @CppGuy @jdeisenberg

Point missed again, and maybe it is not possible to make it here.

The Soul is everything. It is The Point. It is the reason the sacrament of confession (and the other 6) exist.

The secular world is supposed to take care of the secular issues: the church administers to the soul, tries to save the soul - all souls.

The two are utterly incompatible. The attempt in the US to apply secular law to the church is an attempt to mix oil and water.

@Edelruth I feel like you missed the point, but I think that may be the issue precisely.

There is nobody who is above the law (well, practice unfortunately does not always match that). That is the basis of the rule of law.

Which means that imaginary sky friends are no reason to permit aiding and abetting criminals. It may not be something that the church likes, but their priests can be tried just like anyone else, and what their sacraments state is utterly irrelevant.

@CppGuy @jdeisenberg

@Edelruth So any argument that is based on a *foreign* entity (the Vatican) issuing non-legally-binding decrees is, well, 🌬️

I agree that the two are incompatible. But the rule of law applies to earthbound humans nonetheless.

@CppGuy @jdeisenberg

@CppGuy

Wow.
Well.
The point is over here in the far corner, and you are someplace else.

@jens @jdeisenberg

@CppGuy You're right, you have nothing to be ashamed of. Thank you for sharing.

Though I have to say, the way you argued led me to suspect you had a reason, I just didn't expect it to be this personal.

I fully agree, however, that knowing about such abuse and not doing anything about it also needs to be punished - it is effectively aiding and abetting, conspiring, etc. Silence makes you complicit.

@Edelruth @jdeisenberg

@jens

You are saying that the vast civil infrastructure for managing crime is insufficient, and explicitly for Catholics only, their church must corrupt their priests, and betray their congregation to NOT prevent a single crime, but to destroy one of the core dynamics of the church.
Your position is ruinously ethnocentric, and doomed.
It is also an attack on freedom of religion, which by reflex is freedom from religion, and again, prevents zero pedophile crimes.

@CppGuy @jdeisenberg

@jens

There is no rule of law being broken. You keep making statements that confound hearing the confession with the crime.

@CppGuy

I am horrified for your experience.

I am talking about a civil government writing law to damage a worldwide church in one country. It is entirely performative, manipulative, and non-enforcable, and starts the fascist state process of controlling the church, which is essential to them.

Clever if them to pick the crime that moves a population the most - murder is right there, and they didn't touch it.

And again, it does not prevent a single crime.

@jens @jdeisenberg