Skip to main content


in reply to Laurens Hof

(1/2)

Thanks for this thoughtful article.

@LaurensHof
> It is totally possible to create a decentralised social networking platform with only algorithmic timelines

I'm not sure it is. It's definitely possible for a decentralised network to have standards for algorithmic feeds in its protocol spec. But wouldn't it still need the same standards for profiles, timelines of posts, etc? If so, the decentralised nature of the network allows implementers to connect without using algorithmic feeds.

This entry was edited (7 months ago)
in reply to Strypey

(2/2)

You're totally right that fediverse apps could display posts using non-chronological algorithms. In fact they do. Hashtags and lists are existing examples. FEPs could standardise other types.

What can't be done in a decentralised way is a feed generated by a MOLE, "trained" on huge hoards of private data. Which is what people usually mean by "social media algorithm".

in reply to Strypey

Not that it's very relevant, but hashtag feeds and list feeds in Mastodon are both chronological, no?…
in reply to Strypey

And the problem with defining algorithmic feeds is that people can mean very different things by that (mostly based on their level of understanding). *Technically*, chronological following-only feed is also one kind of algorithm… (but I'm not gonna go "I'd like to interject for a moment" here).
in reply to Kuba Suder • @mackuba.eu on 🦋

But we regularly hear on Bluesky that "there's no algorithm here!" even though there obviously are algorithmic feeds there, a built-in one and third party ones - but if someone understands "algorithm" as only "evil manipulative algorithm in the style of Meta", then just a regular fairly simple algorithm doesn't feel "algorithmy enough" for them…
in reply to Kuba Suder • @mackuba.eu on 🦋

(1/3)

True @mackuba. I believe recent versions of the vanilla Mastodon apps have some kind of What's Hot timeline. That's a serendipity generator, which is what most people mean when they say "social media algorithm", " AI", or sometimes "recommendation engine".

I don't see anything but my notifications, and occasional dips into the firehose. If the third-party Android and web apps I use have any of the other timelines, I never see them. But they're there if people want "algorithms".

This entry was edited (7 months ago)
in reply to Strypey

(2/3)

Starter Packs are another form of serendipity generator, and there are a few kinds available for the fediverse, the oldest I know of being Trunk;

communitywiki.org/trunk

Part of the problem is that the fediverse doesn't really have an easy mode. It's hard to know how to get started with a first account, or where to find out.

Guide bots on each server that share tips with new accounts might help? Tips on how to use the common affordances of the network to populate an empty feed.

in reply to Strypey

(3/3)

Wait, I think I just cracked it! What people mean when they say "no algorithms". They mean the feed on their new account starts empty.

What about new accounts having their feed populated by default? Server admins could choose a standard starter pack for all new accounts, or give people their choice of starter pack from a curated set.

#FediverseIseas #onboarding

in reply to Laurens Hof

> Within the ATProto developer community, the discourse that essentialised decentralisation led to a counter reaction, where decentralisation is not seen as a useful term anymore

#BlueSky Stans: BS is decentralised.

Fedi Veterans: Not even vaguely.

BS: OK, true, but ATProto is.

FV: Close, but it can't distribute power beyond a handful of giant orgs. Web 2.0 showed us how that plays out.

BS: OK, true, but decentralisation isn't a useful term anymore.

Moving goalposts much?

in reply to Strypey

Tbh, to follow that metaphor, that football pitch is expanding in both directions