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in reply to Chemical Wonka

Same as always, world and ml are competing to see who can fling the most shit. Whats most funny is that in a sense theyre both right and complete idiots. Ml accuses world of being genocide supporting imperialist NeoLibs (which isn't exactly wrong), while world accuses ml of being tankies (not completely wrong either).
in reply to kittenzrulz123

Don't fight comrades, let's organize our hatred against big techs that are the real evil
in reply to Chemical Wonka

Hey! Fuck you chemicalwonka! Your nuanced, slightly different opinion enrages me! We're enemies now.
This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to Yondoza

If no one has accused anyone of broadly supporting genocide, yet, mind if I dabble?
This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to kittenzrulz123

.ml has flung no shit. It's just really loud .world users trying to split communities
in reply to Chemical Wonka

Basically "Someone said something I disagree with. Instead of dealing with it or ignoring this user, I want the whole instance to be nuked!".
in reply to aradgus

If instance A and B block each other, can a user on instance C still see all the posts from B and A?

What worries me is the drop in posts if things fracture.

in reply to Grandwolf319

Yes, and even if A blocks B but A posts something on a community from C, then B sees it but A won't see their comments under it
in reply to Grandwolf319

Instance C is unrelated to A and B blocking each other. Why wouldn't it be able to see posts from either unless it was also blocked?
in reply to Jyek

Okay but in post A, people from B won’t chime in, and conversely for things posted to B.

I guess instance C can make posts where both people from A and B can chime in. So would people in instance A be able to talk to people in instance B in the instance C’s comment section? Cause A people don’t want to hear from B people.

So we would still see less active posts as interactions would go down.

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to Grandwolf319

The users and posts in instance B are invisible to users in instance A. Regardless of if the messages are in instance C
in reply to Jyek

So users in instance B would see a post in instance C in which user A and C are discussing something, and user B will see user C talking to hidden?
in reply to Grandwolf319

Given your concern. I would recommend joining a instance with as few defederations as possible and blocking instances yourself. You don't need a admin to determine what you want or need to see with your experience here on lemmy.

Block instances/communities/users yourself and make it how you want. Or not. It's your lemmy, use it how you wish. Peace.

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to Grandwolf319

Yep. That's one reason I like the instance I'm on - I can basically see everything, and just block the stuff I don't want to see.
in reply to Grandwolf319

It would drop some engagement, sure, but either side of the liberal/leftist divide already has enough people to sustain itself.
in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

That's because they feed off each other: the liberals throw lots of shit at the wall in the hopes of driving up their engagement from their large but inactive user base while the leftists engage on their own; this creates an environment where the tiny subset of the most active liberals are left alone w the leftists and theyre predisposed to hate tankies, hence the drama.
This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

Aren’t liberals and leftists the same thing? Everyone seems to agree that capitalism is bad, the government should provide more social services, our democratic leaders suck (but we should vote for them anyway because republicans are worse), etc.

Honestly Lemmy seems more like a circlejerk than a divide, the only divide I see is how far we need to go to fix/destroy the system. I don’t think I’ve seen a single conservative voice, which is pretty surprising considering Trump apparently won the popular vote, and I’d expect I’d at least see someone from the other side.

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to knexcar

Liberalism is the ideological component of Capitalism. It supports things like private property and whatnot, so Capitalist ideologies typically fall under its umbrella.

Leftism is a broad anticapitalist categorization of ideologies like Marxism and Anarchism.

What you describe as "everyone" is the more progressive side of liberalism, but not leftists. Leftists go farther and say that to fix those issues, we need Marxism or Anarchism, generally.

Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
davel
it drives engagement


Defenestrate corporate media framing. There are no advertisers to market social media “engagement” to. We are not the product. In fact there is no product, just as there is no customer.

in reply to aradgus

Ideally the network corrects by users moving away from the drama instances so they don’t get randomly cut off.
in reply to NigelFrobisher

Ideally content is properly cross posted. But no big deal if not.

Hopefully some day people can view "shitposting" "All" and be able to see shitposting communities no matter their instance. (Minus those they defederate of course)

in reply to NigelFrobisher

I've no idea if my instance causes any drama or not. And what if it does in the future?
in reply to aradgus

dbzero on top. even after beefing with and being banned from another instance the admins let us stay federated.
in reply to FeelThePower

dbzer0, lemmy.zip and lemm.ee have all been consistently great.
in reply to Arcturus

The propaganda recycling isn't great, but it's at the (VERY) least not any worse than reddit, facebook, or legacy media
This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to FeelThePower

.ml banning the dbzero admin instead of defederating will never not be funny.

"The users are fine, it's just the admin"

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to alcoholicorn

Is this one of those things where lemmy users "remember" things that happened to hexbear, or are you telling me that the dbzero admins also got themselves banned from .ml and dessalines also decided not to defed?
in reply to alcoholicorn

Wasn't that Hexbear that banned dbzer0? Or was that also Lemmy.ml?
in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

.world, hexbear, and another big one all defederated with dbzer0 since they host a lot of piracy and grey area legal content.

don't like this

in reply to Yeather

Hexbear is federated with dbzer0, I have no idea why you think otherwise. They banned the admins for being Anticommunist, but left it federated because Hexbear is pro-piracy and there are cool dbzer0 users
in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

Ah my bad, might have gotten my instances mixed around, I thought there were three big instances that defederated with dbzer0
in reply to Yeather

There may have been, but Lemmy.ml is fine with Piracy it seems and Hexbear is explicitly pro-piracy.
in reply to Yeather

I think it's just lemmy.world, and they actually aren't defederated from dbzer0, they just blocked the piracy community specifically. I think dbzer0 is pretty much fully federated with all the major servers except for lemmygrad. With .world blocking the piracy community, it only affects their users, dbzer0 users can still participate in any lemmy.world content.
This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

I could be misremembering, but I can see dbzer0 content so I guess both instances came to the same conclusion lmao.
in reply to alcoholicorn

Neither DB0 nor Unruffled, the admins of DBZero, are banned on lemmy.ml. You're definitely thinking of when Hexbear did it.
in reply to aradgus

Lemmy.today is one of the most drama-free instances.

Just go and explore whatever of Lemmy you want.

in reply to aradgus

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to aradgus

I’ll be pretty annoyed if world and ml break up. I just want to scroll and they’re most of the content.
in reply to AlexWIWA

If everyone on .world just blocked a handful of people, the issue would disappear. It's mostly a small number of shitheads using a common "enemy" for attention and power.
in reply to SoleInvictus

Real. I just want to shit on cars that I don’t like and glaze Porsche like a good boomer.
in reply to davel

Engagement is just "emotional involvement or commitment", it's not necessarily "corporate media framing". Capitalist platforms abuse this for profit (as they do with everything good), hopefully we can use it to create stronger communities.
This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to aradgus

There was a good comment by @pjwestin@lemmy.world the other day on an angry anti-.ml post:

Before joining Lemmy: "It really doesn't matter what instance you join, you'll be able to see content from all over."

After joining Lemmy: "So you've enlisted in .world, eh? Welcome to the fight, soldier!"

in reply to onlooker

Lemmy.world is very liberal leaning and defederated from the Marxist aligned instances. Lemmy.ml is more broadly federated and has Marxist mods and admins, and more leftist users in general.

That's it. Some users make it a fight.

in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

I’m pretty progressive leaning and just joined .world because I had no idea what lemmy was and was tired of reddit but I thought it didn’t matter what one you joined since you can see all the other instances correct? Or am I wrong here, like if I go to All it shows pose from all instances? Have been curious why I have seen so much far left as in comrade leftist post so I guess that adds up if .world is where they mainly hang out. But again I still don’t completely understand lemmy but I enjoy it more than reddit
in reply to YippieKyeAy

Instances are like islands, with bridges between others. Some instances sever their bridges to other islands so their citizens can't see any of that content and the other island's users can't comment.

Lemmy.world is defederated from instances like Hexbear.net and Lemmygrad.ml, so you can't see their comment. Hexbear is mostly an Anarchist and Marxist hangout, Lemmygrad is specifically Marxist-Leninist and takes itself a bit more seriously. Your "All" feed doesn't show anything from them.

Instances also matter because some have great local feeds based on niche interests, that's part of why I like Hexbear and find it great to browse locally. .world is more of a Reddit replication.

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

Wait did world defederare from ml after all? I thought it hadn’t. Because people keep complaining about ml and I still see memes.ml and comments from ml users. Or is it one of these things where federation works in ways that are more complex than most of us assume? Is it that the other instances defederated from world? But I’ve seen ml users comment on my comments. Argh federarion is confusing…
in reply to gcheliotis

there are multiple instances whose domains end in .ml. lemmygrad.ml and lemmy.ml and the ones that i'm aware of.

lemmy.ml is the primary instance where Lemmy was (and is) originally developed from and that's usually what they're referring to when they say .ml

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to gcheliotis

.world defederated from Lemmygrad.ml, not Lemmy.ml. grad is the Marxist-Leninist instance, Lemmy.ml is like a testbench instance for Lemmy overall.
in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

very liberal leaning and defederated


For me, "slight liberal leaning" is more appropriate for them

in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

What exactly are instances? I picked one at random that claimed to be "general purpose" because I didn't know what I was doing (I migrated very recently)
in reply to Codeviper828

in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

Wait....you can browse instances without making an account??? Whoops, lol, I guess I was a little too eager to get Boost for Lemmy working with an account of my own immediately following Boost for Reddit getting nuked.

Is there a good way to browse instances? (Particularly through Boost?)

Also, what are the instances.... literally? Like, I've never seen social media have groups like this (tied to the account, and separate from the communities, that is)

in reply to Codeviper828

Yep, you can browse instances just by visiting their sites! It's how I signed up to the couple I use, not sure how Boost handles it, I just use my mobile web browser (Hexbear has emojis you can use if you use the web version, so I just use that). I am sorry about not knowing Boost specifically, my fiancé uses Voyager.

As for what instances literally are, they are their own websites and servers, but they can talk to each other, think email. Gmail can talk to protonmail, etc

in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

So, Lemmy is a bunch of separate social media networks that seamlessly* connect to each other? That's.... really cool
in reply to Codeviper828

Yep! There's also a bunch of inter-instance drama too, but by and large it's a much better experience than Reddit, and if all else fails you can find an instance you really like and just browse locally, avoiding most of that drama. A big source of that drama is generally along political lines, Lemmy generally has 3 camps: Marxists, Anarchists, and Liberals, and each instance is more or less friendly with each of those, or hostile to them, so picking an instance that generally aligns with your views will dramatically smooth out your experience.

I recommend sorting this server browser by "most active" and checking each out locally.

in reply to onlooker

There's currently about 600 lemmy instances, in many different countries, and those countries each have different laws regarding the protection of speech. Some of it is also just power-tripping mods or left-wing / right-wing censorship.

If this is happening to a community you like, you can always switch to the same community in a different instance. Eventually, the "official" community will have the most subscribers and the community with the censorship problems will wither and die.

in reply to aradgus

I am so out of the loop on this. People care about what instance they are on?
in reply to drascus

Yes! It's a sad, sad world. It mostly has to do with people's political opinions on moderators, i.e. ".ml are tankies" and ".world are right-wing normie fascists" or something like that. I have never — literally never — witnessed a .ml mod doing something I thought was bad. I have also seen only one tankie since I joined .ml. I have witnessed some kind of conflict between .world and .ml everytime single time I open Lemmy though. Kind of depressing. I wish we could make less of a deal of an issue that, all things considered, seems pretty small. Ah well, that aside, Lemmy is still great, it will just take time to mature — like all social platforms in their beginnings!
in reply to Übercomplicated

The other day I was on all and ended up reading a comment chain and saw something like "Cuba is a democracy, and for proof just look at the official website of the central party."

I found it ridiculous to essentially say "Doug is a skilled electrician, for proof look at this note Doug wrote saying he's a skilled electrician."

This made me a dirty shitlib (I guess the instance I signed up on makes me a liberal). The reaction seemed intense so I checked and it was .ml, so I assume it's a rivalry thing.

You'll see me venting and shitting on eg conservatives but I don't go around calling people these things. You probably don't either. But clearly there are users categorizing us into labels and associating us with our instances regardless of merit.

This entry was edited (11 months ago)

don't like this

in reply to mhague

You were given the official outline on how Cuban Democracy works. What genuine reason do you have to not trust the structure reported? It isn't in dispute or anything. Further, there were other non-cuban sources listed on that thread. When you were asked what source would count as valid for you, you were silent, but now you're complaining in an entirely different thread, which is kinda funny.

It wasn't your instance, it was your attitude.

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

I'm not complaining, I'm giving you a relevant example of where these labels come from. It's .ml and .world and I just don't have any recent memory of this on .world. I'm sure there's an example or two, just not recent.

I was silent because I wasn't sure what people were saying. I don't think people who disagree with what I say are necessarily misinformed, or less intelligent, or mean. So it comes down to how I am certain people (including you) know that what is written on paper and what flows in reality are not 1:1 matches. But they tell me something they wouldn't accept if they were in my shoes.

Maybe that skepticism sounds ridiculous? But if structure is important and reality can be different and everyone knows this I think it's odd to see officially meaningless official material in the room. Why can't we throw it out?


Edit: imagine we're pointing out that America is controlled by billionaires and someone links the official site saying "No, it's still three branches and the will of the people." You toss it immediately.

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to mhague

in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

I think I'm mixing up your statement of a basic datum, the way Cuba is written to be, with the idea that it's indicative of what you'll likely find. Hence, I was skeptical of the utility of using the written system as meaningful to the statement that Cuba was democratic. Like if people are going to talk about that, I assume it's not a technicality they are referring to, they are talking about real people living in a real country... so what good is the official parties word on how things are operating?

Also didn't even realize you were the same person from the other thread, didn't mean to show up here and bother you.

in reply to mhague

in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

It might help people to see some local journalistic coverage of Cuban elections. Seeing the kinds of things Cubans say publicly about and during the elections can give people a more intuitive understanding of what Cuban democracy is actually like for the people participating in it, as well as start to reveal the outlines of the overton window there.

Journalism is my preferred medium for understanding the political landscape of other countries; for an example I like to watch friendlyjordies on youtube for a peek into Australian politics. I'm not sure if it would be very easy to find English translated Cuban sources though.

in reply to Schmoo

You're on the money with most Cuban sources being in Spanish, it's not as common to find English sources.
in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

Like I said I was starting on "step 2" where you start with internal + external analyses = a result. A system is what is written and what is lived, I just assume it's where we start in politics / economics / whatever. What is prescribed is a simple data point. That's why I looked at the statements "Cuba is X, for proof here's the governments website" as absurd. I didn't realize people were speaking about hypotheticals, and reacted at the idea that someone would use that kind of logic to explain how something functions in reality.
in reply to mhague

"Cuba's democratic structure is X" does not provoke suspicion of what X is without reason. Further, there were other websites provided.
in reply to Übercomplicated

Pretty much the same for me. I've seen many posts and comments complaining about those kinds of things from .ml and .world; but close to zero of the actual behaviour that people complain about.
This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to drascus

I'd say not in mine. I'd say we are usually peaceful.
in reply to drascus

I don't care at all! Greetings from Italy!
in reply to Scrollone

I don't give a fuck. I know .ml and .world don't get along. I know that people disliked hexbear (they are pretty silent, dunno if they changed policies). I want everyone to be here.
in reply to aradgus

I am just a chill lemm.ee guy
in reply to Clot

I've yet to see any open lemm.ee prejudice anywhere. AFAIK it's the largest completely inoffensive instance and that's exactly what I was looking for.
in reply to davel

Different type of engagement. Not “how lomg you view ads, click rate, view rate, etc” but just posting and commenting.
in reply to aradgus

Who could have guessed that trying to bring together people with opposing views would generate so much attrition...
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
Übercomplicated

Would you care to elaborate?

Edit: Well, to be fair, I could have paragraphed a little more effectively.

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
Übercomplicated

You could at least try to be civil. I am still curious as to what your original reply meant though. Are you calling me centrist? I am communist, how in the world could I simultaneously be centrist? Furthermore, I wasn't — as far as I'm aware — stating any kind of political opinion with my original reply.

Please, I beg you, elaborate. I would appreciate that a lot more than jumping to conclusions.

Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
Cowbee [he/they]
I'm pretty active with talking to users here and haven't noticed any AI bots, though I also do the wall of text bit.
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
Cowbee [he/they]
...what? I just scrolled the comments for this meme because it got a bunch of traction, and I'm a sucker for that.
in reply to aradgus

It kinda pisses me off tbh. It's like that friend that has to keep telling you how boring the movie is when you're just trying to sit and watch it. Like, stfu and go away then, stop trying to be a crab on the bucket for the rest of us.
in reply to Lenny

in reply to aradgus

From what I’ve seen, a lot of the toxicity is trickling down from the powermods. Same issue migrated from Reddit.
in reply to surph_ninja

Mods will always be a problem.

I’ve yet to encounter a well adjusted human who voluntarily mods.

in reply to surph_ninja

My preference is for completely community moderated platform.

People essentially vote for content moderation. Likely susceptible to gamification but I’m still interested in seeing it in practice.

in reply to mortemtyrannis

Considering the use of downvote bots already, I don’t see that working any better. But then I don’t have any better ideas.
in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

Confirmed, Cowbee is an AI but with good takes!

Fr though, are you really a leftist if you don't respond with a wall of text occasionally?

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to MeowZedong

Noooo you found it out....

But fair, lol. I've been trying to cut back on the walls and get to the point more, lol

in reply to aradgus

Is there a federation map somewhere so you can see what instances are federated with each other and which are not?
in reply to sytone

Yes.

federation-checker.vercel.app/

This link lets you type in an Instance name and it will tell you what other Instances allow it and which ones block it.

in reply to NutWrench

There's also this site, which gives you more options for filtering, but also seems to throw up errors pretty consistently in my experience.

defed.xyz/

In terms of figuring out which instances are cool with one another, this site is also quite useful. It's a web of trust model that a majority of major instances participate in.

It shows which instances endorse one another, with those instances obviously being federated. It also shows how instances choose to describe/tag themselves, which can give you a better understanding of their general vibe. And it also shows which instances are viewed with suspicion, as they are hesitated or censured by other instances.

@Martineski pinging you

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

Every wall I've seen from you has been very informative. Sometimes additional context is needed for a complex topic/point to make sense and as concise as you may try to be, the question deserves a longer answer. Besides walls of text are a meme at this point and we must stick with tradition!
in reply to aradgus

The reason corporate social media sucks is its monopolistic nature. “Instance wars” are why lemmy is better than reddit, which consists of exactly one instance.
in reply to intensely_human

Yeah, right. That totally makes Lemmy better. It's so pleasant to always bicker and threaten to defederate from each other. It's also so unlike Reddit where Subreddits brigade each other and have sub wars. Lemmy is so unique in that... /s
in reply to sozesoze

What we need is a strongman to come along and tell everyone what to do.
in reply to NigelFrobisher

It’s so inefficient to have these different instances defederating from one another. We should prevent defederation and make it illegal to have redundant instances.

There should be a Chief Efficiency Overlord to make all this happen.

in reply to aradgus

Blahaj can start fostering an inclusive community and stop legitimizing trolls whenever they want drama to stop

Edit: Anyone who's seen what happens when mods legitimize trolls knows it kills communities. I wish i could have stayed on blahaj but it's just as toxic as reddit lgbtq spaces now...

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to SoftTeeth

Fighting trolls should not be done by invalidating neopronouns, speak to anyone that uses neopronouns and they'll likely tell you that it quickly cascades into witch hunting.
in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

Is it still invalidating when someone using neopronouns is doing so disingenuously?
in reply to mortemtyrannis

Again, invalidating neopronouns is a cascading issue that results in witch-hunting and should be avoided.
in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

Not sure I agree as it seems like black and white thinking.

I.e. I could imagine a scenario where someone is very obviously/admits to using neopronouns disingenuously and that would break my social contract with them to honour it.

If I make an assessment of neopronoun usage on a case by case basis I can still avoid witch hunts. It’s similar to how I determine in real life if someone is an asshole or not.

Another way; I can support a person who I genuinely believe uses neopronouns while denouncing and excluding someone who doesn’t.

in reply to mortemtyrannis

It is a very tricky slope. It's best to never compromise on neopronoun usage even with suspected trolls, they can be discredited without erasing the pronouns.
in reply to SoftTeeth

What do you mean? My name's not Ada, and I have 2, this one and the Hexbear version under the same name.
in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

Yeah this is why people are leaving, you think they are stupid and it's insulting.
in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

It’s just basic maffs, Cowbee:

  1. Any given opinion can only be held by one person in the universe.
  2. Admin Ada @ blahaj and you have the same opinion regarding neopronouns.
  3. Therefore you and Ada incontrovertibly must be the same person.
in reply to davel

Oh, that's funny. Pretty sure Ada would hate me for being a Marxist, so that's especially strange.
in reply to SoftTeeth

Ada & Cowbee are not the same person, so who’s stupid now?
in reply to davel

Hi again Ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone

Also why was your davel ml and hexbear accounts banned from so many places for "Defense of pedophilia"?

lemmy.ml/modlog?page=1&actionT…

lemmy.ml/modlog?page=1&actionT…

in reply to aradgus

Anyone unironically surprised by this? Lmao
in reply to aradgus

There's 2 things I can't abide: intolerant communities and the Dutch.
in reply to Empricorn

As a Dutchman representing the Dutch, we fully agree with the statement made.

Obligatory: G E K O L O N I S E E R D

in reply to aradgus

.zip lemmings chillin'
This entry was edited (11 months ago)
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
Zink
One of the nice things about Lemmy is that people are willing to actually discuss things with multiple sentences and even paragraphs (gasp) rather than it being a fire hose of quips and one-liners.
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
davel
Congratulations, you failed the Turing test.
This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to davel

The microblogging format is truly awful. I've seen professors and incredibly smart writers get into childish feuds with each other, because the format almost encourages it by rewarding dunks and gotchas.

Forcing people to try to communicate over text without paragraphs, or any way to make themselves more clear, is not a good system.

in reply to aradgus

I guess u need him
in reply to aradgus

Thank you. Spot on.

I’m also seeing bizarre infiltrations of instances by likely paid teams of saboteurs who know exactly how to deFed the federated.