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The best thing you can do for the fediverse is just be kind


This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

Here are some more specific examples to think about!

  • Compliment people's art and ask about their process
  • Teach people about something you're knowledgeable on
  • Give constructive criticism on peoples projects when it's welcome
  • Thank people for posting things you're glad you got to see, tell them you enjoyed it
  • Tell people you're glad they're here
  • Tell people you hope they have a good day

Thanks for taking the time to read my thoughts :) if you have thoughts of your own, I'd love to hear them!

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

On constructive criticism - definitely rule one is make sure that it's invited first, but second, the best way to "sweeten" a critique and make it more appealing is to put it between compliments. Don't have a bare remark about the problems or suggestions, tell them what you like first, then how they might change things, and then close with something else positive or simply thanking them for sharing it. Even if someone says they want to hear what people think, it's normal to be defensive, so help lower that reaction first, and then leave them feeling appreciated even though you pointed out issues you saw.
in reply to Rhaedas

Absolutely agree, some folks just wanna share, some folks wanna get constructive crit to try and technically improve! Its important to be respectful of what kind of interaction folks are looking for :)

And absolutely, talking about both good and bad doesn't just make it less unpleasant or more enjoyable to get feedback, it also makes better, more helpful feedback! (Assuming that's a thing they're looking for)

in reply to Rhaedas

Aka the compliment sandwich. A technique I personally dislike. Be honest and open with your feedback in a positive way, don't try to hide it between compliments. If your feedback is simply negative, keep it to yourself.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compli…

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Shadow

I agree it can be used fallaciously, often found in the business world. My point was to include both good and bad honestly and not hide it, and people won't shut down if they get the good first. It also depends on the subject - if they're on the right track and your suggestion leads to better results, that's not as negative as telling someone they're doing something incorrectly and offering a different way.

In the end, how you say things is just as important as what is said.

in reply to Shadow

100% agreed. If I see a compliment sandwich, I assume that the person using the technique is lying about the compliments and I lose all respect for them.
in reply to Cris

I'm not one for religion, but I for one would like to join the Church of Cris.
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

Are you open to some additional thoughts / feedback on feedback / constructive criticism?
in reply to pirat

I am! Thank you for asking :)

Ive gotten a lot of assumptions about what I meant and that's a bit frustrating but I really value honest sincere dialogue, if you have thoughts you think would be worth sharing I'd love to hear them my friend!

in reply to Cris

in reply to Cris

The second best thing is remember that tolerance of intolerance breeds intolerance.
in reply to SuiXi3D

That suggests we should be intolerant of intolerance, which is an oxymoron.
in reply to Mike Wooskey

Not really. Nazis are scum and deserve to be kicked out.
in reply to fubo

If you actually had a coherent definition of what a Nazi is, it might be possible to agree with you. But in reality, it's used as a catch all by shitty people to justify their shitty behaviour.
in reply to Ogmios

No its not. Just because you can't understand that shipping people to labour camps makes you a nazi or supporting someone who does also makes you a nazi doesn't mean other people have that issue.
in reply to monarch

That's what you say today because you think it's convenient to your argument, but it actually shows exactly what I'm talking about because the definition you've offered would make no sense at all to anyone a year ago, but people like you were still calling everyone Nazis then.
in reply to Ogmios

I'm sorry big daddy Trump cucked you but everyone with the ability to read Project 2025 could tell you this was going to happen.
in reply to monarch

Bro can't you even follow the premise of the thread for like 2 comments
in reply to Shardikprime

Yeah I disagree with the premise. I was nice to people who wanted me dead for years. I'm fucking done.
in reply to Ogmios

To be clear, I mean people who praise Hitler, get swastika tattoos, blame everything on a Jewish Conspiracy, etc.

You know, Nazis.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to fubo

That's coherent. Unfortunately most people who use it today literally mean "someone who disagrees with me." It really muddies the water because it's often accompanied by threats of violence. The net effect is raising the temperature in the room on both sides, because it's effectively dehumanising others who have perfectly valid political disagreements, and calling for their death.
in reply to Mike Wooskey

Almost as if the statement is referring to the paradox of tolerance.

By allowing people like Nazis, Christofascists, Tankies, etc. a platform, it only invites more sharing that view to spread their bullshit around. This makes those that don’t share those extremist views uncomfortable they then leave those places. You see it on platforms like Truth Social, X, and 4Chan.

If this is to be a kind place, we must encourage kindness and rid ourselves of unkindness. You can’t tolerate intolerance, lest it spread and take over.

in reply to SuiXi3D

If you allow wolves and sheep into a space, that is a wolves-only space.

(For context, I agree with you.)

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Mike Wooskey

it's only an oxymoron if you're a moron. tolerance is a social contract. the intolerant break that contract and are no longer to be protected by it.
in reply to Mike Wooskey

Sure, if you think of it as purely semantic, or a zero sum game with no nuance, but it's not.

Gotta be intolerant of those being needlessly cruel to those just trying to live their lives, and gotta be tolerant of those just trying to live their lives that don't affect you, even if you find it cringey.

in reply to Mike Wooskey

Paradox of Tolerance - Karl Poppler - 1945

It's a shame that something we already figured out 60 years ago still needs to be learned by most people.

The good news is, this is an opportunity for you to grow and be better right now. It's never too late to improve yourself.

in reply to Coelacanth

Wdym financial cashes, pandemic, doomscrolling, Trump got the presidency twice??

You're talking crazy it's only 2005 bro, futuristic computer interface means frutiger aero, I listen to music on my iPod and text on my candybar flip phone </3</3

in reply to SuiXi3D

I think part of pleasantness is not bringing politics into things that weren’t intended to be about politics.
in reply to misk

The problem is politics impacts everything and the word "political" means different things to different people.

To some, talking about being gay is political, even though to people who are in that community, it's literally just talking about their lives.

in reply to Banana

It did not impact this thread at all before this comment which was my point exactly.
in reply to misk

I definitely saw several comments that strike me as political, which is exactly my point, everyone has a different definition.

When every aspect of your life is affected by politics, everything is political.

in reply to misk

To interject with a somewhat pedantic point, nothing is truly apolitical. But there is something to be said about sensing the proper time and place to start a political argument.
in reply to SuiXi3D

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

I agree with everything you said at the top and this comment as well. You don't have to be mean, cruel, or shitty to the bad actors. In fact the best case scenario is to make your case once and then walk away. It's much easier to talk about than to actually do, but it's really effective. If you assume they're not trolls or bad actors, even better. All of these actions curtail flame wars, which is what they're after anyway if you're correct that they're a bad actor or troll.
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to pelespirit

Thanks for your thoughts, thats a bit different of an approach than I'd really thought about, I feel like my thoughts have kinda been stuck at both extremes

That gives me new things to think about, thank you ❤️

in reply to Cris

they're going to "feel" persecuted, no matter what. might as well make them actually fucking fear it.
in reply to SuiXi3D

i think if someone's intolerant, pointing out that they're wrong is something appropriate, but picking a fight over it is not worth it. it makes you like that person in that meme:


edit: in bad cases, report it and move on with your life.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to SuiXi3D

Call them out so that resistance is visible, then block them to remove their agency to engage you.
in reply to Cris

There was a movement in the blogging community ~15 years ago to leave positive comments on posts you like. It was an approach to conquer negative comments and a general destructive nature of online conversations. I still do it to this day. If I really like something or appreciate someone's work, I leave a nice comment.
in reply to squirrel

Oh neat, being younger there's a lot of how folks approached the web in its earlier years that I don't have any experience with, and think there's a lot to learn from

I love that!

in reply to squirrel

A nice comment is worth more than 1000 upvotes, emotionally.
in reply to Cris

Also try to post stuff. I need to follow my own advice more.
in reply to HulkSmashBurgers

Baby steps! :) I found it helped me build the habbit if I kept an eye out for posts that could be cross posted to smaller more niche communities

There are a lot of times where a post only gets posted on a bigger community because it has enough traffic, and smaller niche communities would benefit from folks crossposting it around!

in reply to HulkSmashBurgers

And not just memes and shitposts you find elsewhere

Make things and share

It ain't gonna be perfect but that's half the fun

in reply to Cris

Upvote, comment, post! Compliment good OC content (especially if it is posted regularly).

Bring more regular users if you can.

in reply to Cris

I see you around a lot, and you're consistently doing exactly this. I really respect that.
in reply to Gradually_Adjusting

Thank you very much, I do my best :)

By the way I love your username lol. Take care!

in reply to Gradually_Adjusting

Thats absolutely horrifying, thank you. 😂
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

The last time I went to Reddit, I felt like everyone was trying to pick a fight, and would jump on me for any tiny reason.

No point being part of a community like that, the whole place is a dumpster fire, but if everyone is either trolling or turning on each other, it's much worse.

I hope as Lemmy gets more popular, it doesn't inherit those problems.

in reply to WhatSay

I think as early members of this small online space we have to potential to cement a kinder culture that can influence even what this platform is like many years from now, with users that won't be here for a long time!

People tend to match energy with the people they're engaging with. When you show people kindness they intuitively respond the same way, and when that's the culture, I think it can profoundly shape people's social behaviors :)

And this space being as small as it is, we all have an outsized impact on that culture compared to something like reddit where any given user makes up such a teeeeny tiny fraction of the social interaction there.

We can all create that kind of culture that leads with kindness and prompts others to follow suit

in reply to WhatSay

I used to use reddit constantly, and did so for years. That level of hostility took over so gradually that I didn’t even consciously notice. I used Lemmy for a few weeks before it really sunk in that nobody had jumped down my throat over a minor, irrelevant issue (like a careless punctuation or grammatical error).

People here tend to give each other the benefit of the doubt, which had become virtually unheard of on reddit. Even when people make replies I don’t agree with, they’re usually discussing the point rather than the way that point is presented.

I will never, ever go back.

in reply to WhatSay

I'd say there's also some corners of Lemmy that feel like the slightest provocation leads to an absolute dog pile of people being super angry looking for a fight.

That aspect blows but it's usually helped by making sure that the instance your account is on is federated (or specifically NOT federated) with specific other instances.

Though this place is so much more chill than Reddit it's fucking mindblowing

in reply to WhatSay

I swear Reddit has bots/trolls/AI designed to argue and rile you up to increase engagement. We see it in reposts/titles, why not in the comments?
in reply to Cris

I've noticed most discussions i have here end with a LOT less anger and a LOT more learning and that makes me happy.
in reply to Banana

Fuck yeah! I think that's the thing that makes the fediverse special :)

We all care enough about the online spaces we choose to inhabit that we leave the big platforms for something kinder. I think that's worth leaning into :)

in reply to Cris

100%

Internet by the people, and for the people, truly.

in reply to Banana

Because there's fewer foreign bots trying to make you hate everyone in your country, and fewer social media engagement bots trying to make sure you stay online arguing with someone.
in reply to Cris

Thanks for sharing! I'm not perfect at this, but I try to keep the vibes welcoming.

Lemmy's more intimate and understanding vibes are its best features IMO.

in reply to pebbles

Hell yeah 😊

And I absolutely agree. Lemmy straight up isn't as big as reddit, it's important that there be stuff to see, but I think one of the best things about the fediverse is that it feels so much more like healthy, actual social interaction, and I think that's a strength we ought to celebrate and actively facilitate :)

Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
Cris
Thank you my friend, you too!
in reply to Cris

I can co-sign this if we can agree that some types of ‘disagreements’ don’t belong on the fediverse, a la the Nazi bar problem.
in reply to Cris

Highly upvoted comments like "Elon Musk should commit suicide" or "X group of people are all mentally retarded" or even popular posts themselves make me feel uncomfortable.

It feels toxic like X. Or what Voat (an older Reddit clone, albeit not a federated one) turned into. So much of y'all upvoting posts like that, normalizing it, does not make me want to stick around, as that culture of hate will only get worse.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to brucethemoose

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

Yeah don't get me wrong, I love Lemmy. But I don't like, well, that sort of thing. Or straight up disinformation being posted along the lines of that vitriol. It makes me worry about the Fediverse, as that culture only goes one place, and I feel like we shouldn't stick our heads in the sand and only talk about the love if the culture is getting radicalized to an extreme.
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to brucethemoose

It may not do much depending on the mods/admins, but it never hurts to report and downvote comments or posts like that.

Emphasis on reporting there, as I think sometimes that stuff lingers around because people have made a habit of only downvoting and blocking those doing that regularly. I realize in your examples it's more likely bias or bigotry respectively, but still.

Report first, then downvote and block. Doing only the latter only makes your experience a little better, the former may help the community.

in reply to ElectroVagrant

I do report them, but some communities seem to encourage it and leave it up.

I guess I can block the community, but it's still affecting the "Lemmy culture" at large...

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to brucethemoose

people are very emotional rn because of everything that's happening but i agree with you that violence for it's own sake is never good. the discussion must stay positive.
in reply to Cris

I have also noticed people agreeing with someone in a reply to another comment, but the original commenter has no upvotes. If you agree, upvote. If you kind of agree, upvote. If you don't agree, but they make a good case, upvote and then say that. Upvotes make people feel good.
in reply to Cris

I love this.

I think it’s important to say this doesn’t mean pretending you like or agree with something you don’t like or agree with.

But when you do see something you like, agree with, or appreciate, drop a compliment. Compliments make places better!

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to FundMECFS

Absolutely agree. Fake niceness is worthless and does nothing to make a space better.

We need sincerity.

in reply to Cris

Good luck with that. Volunteer moderation tends to attract some of the most toxic individuals on the planet.
in reply to Ogmios

In fairness reddit also has volunteer moderation, but you're absolutely right. I think that's why being intentional about what kind of culture we want is so important.

In a small space bad actors in leadership roles can do so much damage, and people intentionally facilitating healthy spaces can do so much good.

Corporate platforms have to deal with profit incentives and the way those warp what a space is about, but we shouldn't forget that our "new" fediverse model has its own problems well have to contend with.

The issue of greater variation in moderator/hosts was a big issue in the forum days to my understanding, and whether a space was healthy varried a lot from one to another. Big consolidated platforms homogenized things a lot but that came with its own issues. In a lot of ways it feels like the fediverse will have to address a lot of the unresolved issues of the old internet.

I can only hope we can learn by looking back at that history and build something better now

in reply to Cris

Well, I certainly do appreciate seeing people like yourself making an active effort to bring some sanity back to the web. Keep it up!
in reply to Ogmios

Thank you friend, I really appreciate that!

Take care! ❤️

in reply to Cris

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Flax

Sure! Here’s an expanded version of the fictional profile for Chris Whitmore, now including made-up family member names, relationships, and contact info — all entirely fictional and consistent with the character:


You forgot to remove that part of the LLM response....

in reply to Flax

Is the joke supposed to be that you're pretending to dox me instead of being kind...? You spelled my name wrong 😅
in reply to Flax

It was evidently a joke, ffs why is it necessary to explain this?
in reply to Shardikprime

Because I tried to make it semi believable. Because bored.
in reply to Cris

If this is the best thing you can do, then the second best thing is be active. We're still content starved around here. If you think of something to post, post it. If you can't post, try to comment. Especially on any post that has no comments. Doesn't matter how banal your comment is. Nothing scares away potential new users more than seeing post after post with 0 comments in their feed, and nothing disheartens posters more than that "0 comments" under their post.

People are generally scared or reluctant to do things when nobody else is doing them. They don't want to post in communities that don't already have recent posts. They don't want to comment on posts that have 0 comments. So whenever you can break that silence and be that first post or comment, try to do so.

in reply to Coelacanth

I definitely agree about the importance of breaking the silence, and engaging with folks who go out of their way to post.

As a culture we want that to be rewarding, it's something we all appreciate when folks do, so I think it's worth making sure posters can feel that it's appreciated. Make it known :)

in reply to Cris

Filtered word: nsfw

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Match!!

Lol. Porn does make the internet go round

I already did that, but not on this account >.>

in reply to Cris

Multiple accounts are a must!

...or so I've been told

in reply to stroz

You have been lied to.
Well except if you do more than upvote the raunchy stuff.
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

I thought it was more 'up and down' :)

Can people see what groups you subscribe to on Lemmy?

in reply to BagOfHeavyStones

Can people see what groups you subscribe to on Lemmy?


Other users can see which groups we comment on.

I haven't run an instance, but I imagine admins of our home instances can see what groups we are subscribed to.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

something about that oily wetness lubricating the engine of thought.
in reply to Match!!

Make any post of quality. More high quality posts reducing reasons for visiting reddit the better
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
Cris
Fuck yeah! Absolutely!
in reply to Cris

One thing that has been concerning me lately is that the Fediverse is being treated as a refuge for people who get banned on Reddit or other social media. Sure, sometimes those bans are based on arbitrary power tripping nonsense. But people actually do get banned for being assholes, and so I've got some worry that this is distilling the population of the Fediverse in an unfortunate direction.
in reply to FaceDeer

Yeah, I think that was a big issue with the culture of platforms like Voat.

The fediverse doesn't have it as bad but it's still definitely a risk. And being decentralized makes it easier to dodge bans and whatnot.

You're right, and like I said elsewhere in this thread, big corporate platforms definitely have issues but that doesn't mean there aren't any unique challenges the fediverse will have to contend with.

in reply to FaceDeer

Every troll server gets defederated from by everyone. And every troll gets banned on the normal servers. I think the federated nature is a blessing, those assholes have their own part of the internet which is usually far from my part of the internet.
in reply to Rikudou_Sage

"Asshole" is a broad term. It includes racists, abrasive personalities, anger-management problems, and so forth. Ie, people who have a tendency to get banned from other places. It's not just trolls.

Being banned from Reddit is a unitary action. They can't get back into Reddit, they're just gone. Whereas in the Fediverse you can just go to a different instance and sign up afresh each time you get banned. This is part of the Fediverse's design. And so I am concerned that the Fediverse will accumulate the worst users.

in reply to FaceDeer

They can't get back into Reddit, they're just gone


It takes all of 30s to spin up a new Reddit account, just has to have a new name that isn't already taken. If anything it's easier than on a lot of Lemmy instances

in reply to Psychadelligoat

Reddit is able to do global IP bans. The Fediverse is not able to do that because there's no "global".
in reply to FaceDeer

I have an idea of how to fix that. Other fedi Devs are trying similar things too.
in reply to Rimu

I don't consider it something to be "fixed." I like that the Fediverse is fully decentralized, with no authority over who gets "in" and who doesn't. Once you've got some kind of authority that can decide who's allowed on which instances, with some kind of global registry of individual users that can exclude you if the wrong people don't like you, we're basically back to being Reddit with some fancy extra steps.

Sure, it risks allowing assholes to continue getting new accounts. But we already have a Reddit, I'd rather try something new even if that comes with downsides.

in reply to Cris

Great post.

To add to this, not resorting to calling others tankies or Russian bots when you have differing opinions, especially around politics.

in reply to kek

1 billion percent agree, not everyone you disagree with is acting in bad faith
in reply to Cris

when you're dealing with fundamentalists or extremists things turn nasty very quickly because you're questioning their fantasy world

doesn't matter if they're good or bad faith, often they will just ban you

in reply to kek

I came to Lemmy (lemm.ee originally) with this attitude. Tankies really made me regret trying to be sympathetic too them. It was the most vile interaction I've had on the Internet maybe? You shouldn't call people tankies if they're not but real tankies are by far the biggest problem with the fediverse and it's growth
in reply to Draces

yeah i've met some thorough tankies recently and wow are they annoying. just completely blind to reality.
in reply to kek

Sometimes they literally just are. Not seen it on Lemmy but on Reddit I definitely interacted with users, age under 1 year, all suspiciously pro-Putin. It's rare and I'm looking for it, but still.
in reply to PastafARRian

It's rare and I'm looking for it


Unfortunately not that rare of a POV to find. They just generally don't do the young account thing. Some are true believers. Others likely state actors. Don't see as many bots but the greater levels of transparency and lower active population probably makes it less worthwhile of an investment.

in reply to kek

On Reddit, I once bragged about having universal healthcare and got called a Nazi and a communist at the same time.

This is what happens when Xbox kids that use the n-word grow up. They learn new "bad" words and throw them around out of context and contradictingly. They don't actually know what those things are, though, so it never makes sense.

I've been called a tankie here. I didn't know what it was and looked it up, just to discover it was the literal opposite of the things I was saying. I was very confused and just put it down to frustrated self-projection. At some point they had been called that, it upset them, so now they use it to upset people too but they still don't actually know what it is they're saying.

If I see someone defaulting to Russian bot or tankie, I've found another Xbox kid and it's in my best interests to just move on.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to kek

Nah fuck tankies, zero tolerance for the intolerant.
in reply to Cris

I notice tons and tons of hostility in comments. And I think it's from people jumping to the worst possible conclusion.
in reply to FluorideMind

I knew that would happen, but you're not wrong 😅

As I've alluded to, there's a lot of justifiable anger about the state of the world, and you can see that hurt reflected in people's immediate response. The feelings driving that "conclusion jumping" valid and understandable, even if I don't think it's productive

There is no easy way to cope with fascism on your doorstep, or taking over your home and threatening to throw you out of it :(

Originally I listed all the extra examples/suggestions I put in my comment in the actual post itself, but I have a bad habit of making things way too long so I moved all the smaller more specific things to the comment. I think maybe it would have been more clear I'm not saying you should approve of Nazis had they still been in the post.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

in reply to OpenStars

The user you quoted said they would also try Piefed: old.reddit.com/r/RedditAlterna…

Isn't being federated with HB nowadays more the exception that the rule?

IIRC,
- LW
- SJW
- lemmy.ca
- sopuli.xyz
- Blahaj
- programming.dev
- feddit.org

Are defederated

in reply to Blaze (he/him)

in reply to OpenStars

I had pretty much the same experience as that user and it's why I left lemm.ee when they decided not to defederate with some of the worst instances. Was about to go back to the search if lemmy.world wasn't any better. Tankies are why I don't recommend Lemmy to my friends anymore. They are the fediverse's biggest problem
in reply to Draces

#1
in reply to OpenStars

I've had exactly the same experience. Lemmy has been far more hostile than I ever experienced on Reddit. Any opinions which aren't far left are called "Nazi," and users are very quick to justify violence against "Nazis."
in reply to Cris

A lot of people dive in as if the entire fediverse has the same level of nerve as 4chan.

There are a lot of sensitive people here. The best thing I learned through my dealings with Mastodon is to be kind, and lurk before hitting that comment button.

The level of discord on the fediverse waxes and wanes depending where you are. There are conversations I'd never have here, that I'd gladly have elsewhere with no ill effects. The right words for the right group of people.

in reply to Vanilla_PuddinFudge

"Sensitive" people can be really toxic too. Some people just enjoy being outraged.
in reply to Cris

!lemmysilver

Lemmy is filled with too much hate, hopefully things can change

in reply to Cris

I started using Lemmy just recently. I haven't seen any sexism here so far. On reddit it's a matter of minutes until something sexist appears on my feed, or other hateful stuff. That's why I feel way more relaxed using Lemmy.
in reply to ProfDrDr

sexism does exist on lemmy but the algorithm is less aggressive about pushing rage-bait, so it rarely shows on the front-page. also, the people here are a bit more considerate, i'd say. but that is mostly because it's a lot of nerds here (heheh).
in reply to gandalf_der_12te

Yes, that algorithm is definitely way better! I'd argue though that people aren't more considered here because they are nerds. Communities, such as the gaming and anime communities, are often one of the most misogynistic ones online. I think people are more considered here, because they are politically on the left.
in reply to Cris

I have a couple of suggestions to add:

I was considering leaving the other site before the API fiasco because it felt like so many users approach engagement as rhetorical combat, that is, the point of discussion is to defeat the other person. Instead, think one of Covey's habits of highly-effective people: "Win-win, or no deal." Approach discussion on the Fediverse as a collaborative act, in which you're exchanging ideas with another person. Even if you disagree, you can both win by respectfully hearing out the other person. And if the other person won't collaborate? No deal! Just disengage.

Just like in intimate relationship, use "I" statements instead of "you" statements. Telling people who they are and what they believe is not only disrespectful, but probably wrong, often exaggerated or distorted for rhetorical combat purposes. People get angry when their identity gets poked at. One exception, of course, is when giving advice, like, stick to what you know, and share your thoughts and your reactions to a topic.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to SwingingTheLamp

Well yeah but consider that everyone that doesn't think like me is a Nazi at best
in reply to Cris

Sounds more like a Showerthought, but I'm going to allow it.
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

Saved because would be interesting to read what the people that want to set others property on fire and guillotine people, think what is actually being kind
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Shardikprime

well i'd argue that setting teslas on fire is property damage, while slashing social security is murder or at the very least neglect of duties that led to deaths of many people.

it is clear that property damage is the minor damage of the two, according to contemporary interpretation of law.


about the guillotining:

same story. talkings about guillotining people is a reasonable threat when the alternative is to let the billionaires upend your roots and your lifes through horrible policy decisions. it's an act of self-defence at some point, i'd say.


though i agree with you at least partially that the US is different than say europe.

in the US, the mindset of "hard work" is more far-spread, as it the mindset that people who don't work, don't deserve to eat. that's just the US being the US i guess.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Shardikprime

I'm not sure I follow-
Are you saying you think I want to set people's stuff on fire and guillotine people, or that you think responders in this thread do?
in reply to Cris

Well do you?

Also I meant in general. Those types of posts and comments are highly upvoted in here.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Shardikprime

I think the use of violence is complicated. I think people are too eager to let their anger dictate their behavior.

I also think that if you always turn the other cheek you're allowing cruelty, and you won't be the only one to suffer it at the hands of said cruelty.

I'm interested in what's effective. I care about the outcome. I think kindness often has the outcome I want.

I also think that if you lived through the Nazi regime, you'd be justified in shooting Hitler. You'd be justified in taking up arms to protect your loved ones from persecution, or execution at the hands of a group that needs victims to fuel its political machine.

I'm not inclined to believe my anger always dictates the best course of action. I'm also not inclined to believe that my desire to be friends with everyone will always be enough to build a world that isn't ruled by profound cruelty. I think those two ideas can co-exist.

in reply to Cris

Sorry but right wingers aren't welcome here.

If (Republicans/Tankies/Fascists) want any voice here they can go get fucked.

If they acted in good faith and were capable of processing reality they wouldn't identify as such.

We need to accept they have had decades to self reflect and learn how reality works, and instead they choose to erase minorities because they make right wingers uncomfortable.

No, I'm done being nice.

They can stop supporting fascist movements the moment they want to be included, but if they don't then they've backed themselves into that corner.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to SoftestSapphic

serious question but how do/could you formalize your rejection of right-wingers? what is it exactly that you take issue with?

i'm asking because i talk to a lot of people (also some who identify as "right-wingers") and i'd like to know what exactly are the issues that bother people, so i can forward it to them. it would help me bring up better arguments if i know what other people are thinking.

so, i've collected the following list of things to take issue with so far:

  • right-wingers often think that people who don't work, don't deserve to eat, which clearly puts enterpreneurial spirit above human life, which is clearly illegal
  • right-wingers often take brunt and direct actions, which can be uncomfortable to more sensitive people.
  • right-wingers typically neglect far-sightedness, seeking only short-term profits (looking at you, quarterly profit).

tell me if i forgot something.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to gandalf_der_12te

The basic problem is thinking that conquering somebody is natural, inevitable, or good.
in reply to Shardikprime

proof?

i'm asking because i suspect that might be a fallacy; i remember reading somewhere that 10k years ago the first wars happened, before then war practically didn't exist because war requires a minimum amount of organization and that just wasn't there before.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to gandalf_der_12te

There was organized violence deployed by groups of humans against other groups of humans long, long before anything we would recognize as warfare. Particularly brutal violence too, because the objective was not to conquer other people (something which only makes sense once agriculture is the dominant mode of sustinence), but to either drive off or exterminate a rival group so you can use their territory for yourself.

And we don't even need to talk about people here: we have records of chimpanzees fighting small scale wars of harassment and extermination against neighboring groups.

Pre-modern, pre-civilization, pre-aggriculture, pre-you-name-it human life was far more violent than what we deal with today.

in reply to williams_482

We aren't chimpanzees. As persistence hunters, our kinds of territorial disputes would have been very different and early humans were likely very nomadic rather than settling into territories that fight. In times of scarcity we'd just move on to different lands.

Which, notably, is why humans spread over the entire planet. We aren't really built to be fighters.

in reply to queermunist she/her

No one is saying we are chimps, but we share lots of mammalian behavior

For example, did you know chimpanzees engage on guerrilla wars, torture and , weirdly enough, prisoner exchanges?

But that's besides the point, I think they were just pointing out how standardized is that behavior in the animal kingdom, not excusing it

in reply to Shardikprime

But it's not "standardized" behavior, that's just the behavior of a single animal.

We have more in common with other migratory herd animals because we move so much. Elephants, for example.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to queermunist she/her

i remember reading somewhere we're closer to bonobos than chimpanzees (behavior-wise); we're the nice apes
in reply to queermunist she/her

in reply to JaggedRobotPubes

oh yes i forgot about canada and greenland somehow, sorry

actually i meant in general, like apart from the current situation with trump.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to gandalf_der_12te

Right wing ideologies hinge on distracting people from their problems instead of solving them.

This arracts exclusively con men and dumb marks.

And the distractions they choose always end up being the erasure of minorities for some fucking reason.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to gandalf_der_12te

in reply to FilthyHookerSpit

you've put it very well, especially the

You’ll have the “oh well I don’t support THAT part of my political party but shrug nothing we can do 🙂” publicans but don’t do anything or even CRITICIZE it. And those that try to refute these points either outright deny that its true or use whataboutism.


is something that perfectly describes my mother. no matter how bad the situation, she invariably comes back to "christianity will save us, we need to work harder, gays are abusing social programs, ..."

in reply to FilthyHookerSpit

actually let me think about it again:

IMO that somebody's always hateful is typically a sign of enormous psychological/emotional stress. so that tells me these people have a lot of problems, and probably don't know how to deal with the world. i wonder what education would do to them.

in reply to gandalf_der_12te

The thing is, hate has varying degrees. There is: slight disregard up to boiling rage. But the root is the same. They hate those that are different and the higher ups need a Boogeyman to point their capitalistism caused depression to.
in reply to gandalf_der_12te

The main thing is the bigotry and making marginalized people feel unwelcome and unsafe. Having trans people and Nazis existing in the same space isn't really tenable, in practice, most marginalized people would rather be in a space where their existence and basic rights aren't up for debate and where they won't receive slurs and threats of violence. So the question is, who would you rather have in your community, oppressor or oppressed?

Of course, this person applies this standard blindly by including "tankies" as "right-wingers." She's just abusing a valid argument by using it to dismiss any perspective she doesn't like, left or right, bigoted or accepting, bad faith or good faith, as "right-wing."

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to SoftestSapphic

in reply to davel

They have one very important thing in common. They both support the alt-right. Fascists because they want to. Leftist because they're purists.
in reply to surewhynotlem

They do not support the alt-right. What are you even talking about? “MAGA communists” almost never show up on Lemmy, and when they do they are quickly shown the door. And Marxist are neither “purists,” “idealists,” nor “utopians,” which you’d know if you’d read any Marxist theory.
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to davel

They support the alt-right by being overly idealistic and failing to partner with liberals and more moderate leftists to make progress.

Divide and be conquered.

in reply to surewhynotlem

Partnering with liberals is idealistic. They always stab you in the back at the first opportunity.
in reply to queermunist she/her

I disagree. Socialists often tactically partner with liberals on shared goals, despite the risks. Knowing that, when forced to choose, liberals have historically sided with fascists, because fascists will never upend capitalism.
in reply to davel

It makes tactical sense to partner with liberals in some contexts, like a national liberation struggle, and to put aside lesser contradictions to focus on the principal contradiction. It doesn't make sense to partner with liberals while under capitalism, especially not within the imperial core. The liberals in congress don't have a shared goal in stopping fascism.
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to queermunist she/her

What, a Zionist genocidaire giving a performative twenty five hour faux filibuster is not stopping fascism?
in reply to davel

lol a few days after he did that speech he voted against blocking $8.8 billion in arms sales to Israel 🤡
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to surewhynotlem

Look at what you made me do!

I wouldn't have considered genocide, if you weren't so idealistic!!

If you had only partnered up with the people who only care about money, we could have returned to the status quo.


Mate, the goal is to be idealistic. No one is perfect, but we want to strive for what's the best and hope we reach there some day.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to SpicyColdFartChamber

Yes, but not at the cost of letting fascists win. Harm reduction is real.
in reply to surewhynotlem

Sure, harm reduction is good. That's what's been happening for the past century.

But you give the liberals an inch and they'll take a mile. They're only "liberals" as long as they're making money of others, as soon as something goes wrong they're first in line asking for government handouts. That's why the liberals will always prefer fascist over left wing idealists, because they're opportunists more than anything else. They'll backstab you and vote in fascists if they think they can make more money with them. That's exactly what's happening in the US.

We need new politics where hating on the LGBTQ+, immigrants, women, and putting money over the lives of few isn't considered a political leaning.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to SpicyColdFartChamber

Yep. Which means we need to run for government positions in a way we can win
in reply to surewhynotlem

Yes, true that.

I'll even concede that you can find some common ground with them short term.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to davel

I have read a lot of marxist and anarchist theory. All marxist theories did is to confirm that the anarchists are right.
in reply to davel

Thanks for showing up to be an example Davel

Davel is one of the ones who knows exactly what they are supporting, but choose to because they don't act in good faith.

Now kindly fuck off until next time Davel. :p

in reply to SoftestSapphic

You’ve once again shown your empty accusations and insults, contrary to OP’s advice in this post.
in reply to davel

You will never be accepted in this space no matter how many alt accounts you make to downvote people.

This isn't reddit you fascist, your tactics don't work here.

in reply to SoftestSapphic

I have no problem with them being here, FYI
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Shardikprime

Why thank you, one of my thousands of no good, bad faith alt accounts.
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Shardikprime

Proof is: it’s a joke. The woman above accused me of downvoting her with my many alt accounts, and this isn’t the first time she’s done it to me. She has no evidence of course, and the mods & admins can trivially see that she’s just shit talking. But I’m the bad faith actor, she says. She’s a troll.
in reply to davel

Also proof? I mean, as long as baseless accusations are being thrown around..
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Shardikprime

Proof of what? The proof of her making baseless accusations are in her comments and in the modlog.

Or are you asking me to prove a negative? That the downvotes are not coming from my thousands of alt accounts?

Or did you still not get my joke, and you think that I’m genuinely accusing you of being a bad faith alt account?

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to SoftestSapphic

This is an example of what being nice is for the average Lemmy user

Jesus Christ you people can't even comment without going ballistic at each other over the slightest thing

in reply to Shardikprime

I wouldn’t call this the “average” Lemmy user, but there is a minority of very loud users who make it seem that way at times.

If we want this to be a pleasant place, users need to report them, and mods & admins—who, I cannot stress enough, do this labor for free or at most peanuts—need to deal with them.
join-lemmy.org/docs/code_of_co…

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to SoftestSapphic

Oh, not them. I suppose they meant among non-right wingers. I always found quite explicit they aren't welcome here. Not today, not ever.
in reply to SoftestSapphic

If you're out there suggesting political stances can be adequately expressed along a single line, then you're not doing much better I'm afraid. Engage with the nuance, friend, it'll build understanding and be better for all of us.

'Left'/'Right' need to go, they're losing any meaning they once had - instead: "What's your policy on X"? "How do you feel about Y?" "Do you agree with Z's policy on A, B & C, and why?".

Curiosity, followed by grounded opinion, over tribalism.

Now excuse me while I go and try to practice what I just preached 😅

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Darkmoon_UK

But nuance is hard and demands empathy which is also hard. I want to be angry-mad and stomp my feet!
in reply to Darkmoon_UK

that's what i've been saying for a while now. like a healthy organism that has both left and right hands, society too shall have both right and left people in it. that is not a problem. what is the problem is that these different parts are not communicating clearly enough and it's causing dysfunction of society.
in reply to gandalf_der_12te

Which one of your hands has the ideology that hinges on erasing the other? And which one wants affordable Healthcare?
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to SoftestSapphic

If you know what you are arguing and argue with tankies/Nazis in good faith, nine times out of ten they will eventually lose their temper and make fools of themselves. There is no need to be hostile to begin with, they just defeat themselves basically because their ideologies are totally flawed (kinda like in real life).
in reply to SoftestSapphic

It is not to validate them, it is to discredit them and provide red flags to would-be readers how dangerous their ideas are.
in reply to TankovayaDiviziya

It makes them feel validated, they're not capable of self reflection

From my experience it hurts more than helps to engage with fascists/right wingers because you give them a platform.

They should be contained on twitter and truth socal until they learn that it's not ok to kill minorities or they decide they want to get shot.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to SoftestSapphic

they're not capable of self reflection


You missed the part where I said it is for the readers, not the cultists. It is not about convincing these ideologues, it is to warn the readers why the ideas of these cultists are bad.

in reply to TankovayaDiviziya

If you look at their past interactions with "tankies", they're all the opposite of what you say they should be: it's the "tankie" calmly and reasonably making their points while SoftestSaphic immediately descends into an incoherent raging tantrum.
in reply to SoftestSapphic

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

Yeah that's a much too enlightened take for these parts it'll never fly.
in reply to barsoap

Anger and fear are blinding if you let them be, especially if they're intensely justified.

Unfortunately we live in times where they're very justified. I don't begrudge people for reacting in anger or fear, I'm doing my best not to do exactly the same :(

Take care my friend.

in reply to Cris

As so often, the answer is found in scripture:

One day Mal-2 asked the messenger spirit Saint Gulik to approach the Goddess and request Her presence for some desperate advice. Shortly afterwards the radio came on by itself, and an ethereal female Voice said YES?

"O! Eris! Blessed Mother of Man! Queen of Chaos! Daughter of Discord! Concubine of Confusion! O! Exquisite Lady, I beseech You to lift a heavy burden from my heart!"

WHAT BOTHERS YOU, MAL? YOU DON'T SOUND WELL.

"I am filled with fear and tormented with terrible visions of pain. Everywhere people are hurting one another, the planet is rampant with injustices, whole societies plunder groups of their own people, mothers imprison sons, children perish while brothers war. O, woe."

WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH THAT, IF IT IS WHAT YOU WANT TO DO?

"But nobody wants it! Everybody hates it."

OH. WELL, THEN STOP.

At which moment She turned herself into an aspirin commercial and left The Polyfather stranded alone with his species.


Answer. I said answer. Not solution. Too much aspirin and your blood thins out and you need to move to Transylvania.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to barsoap

That took my brain a hot minute to process lol. Is that actually from something or did you just invent it on the spot? 😅

"I am filled with fear and tormented with terrible visions of pain. Everywhere people are hurting one another, the planet is rampant with injustices, whole societies plunder groups of their own people, mothers imprison sons, children perish while brothers war. O, woe."

"But nobody wants it! Everybody hates it.

"OH. WELL, THEN STOP.


Unironically wisdom we should all learn from. I can't stop for other people but I can at least choose how I act, and whether I contribute to that pain suffering and discord.

in reply to Cris

Right wingers voted for the Republicans who are now attempting a fascist coup.

I'm done trying to make friends with people who want to erase me and my friends/family

Idk what to tell you

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to SoftestSapphic

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

It's specifically the "don't call people Russian trolls/bots"

There are a lot of Right wingers sympathetic to fascist countries right now, and it doesn't matter if it's a troll farm or a regular person pushing hateful ideology it's harmful and unacceptable either way.

in reply to SoftestSapphic

Personally I don't see calling people Russian bots/trolls or accepting harmful behaviour as the only available options.

I don't think the former is at all productive or helps anything, and the latter is completely unacceptable. But those aren't our only options when we decide how we want to engage with people we disagree with

and again, fascists are not the only people with whom disagreements happen on lemmy. We're literally disagreeing right now, if you called me a Russian bot I think that would be silly and unproductive. That's literally my whole point. Not everyone you disagree with is arguing in bad faith 🤷‍♂️

in reply to Cris

If we keep letting Nazis into the bar it becomes a Nazi bar

This is a good principle to learn as to not accidentally validate people with invalid worldviews.

en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Nazi_…

in reply to SoftestSapphic

I'm very familiar with and agree with the Nazi bar metaphor, and said as much in one of my very first comments I made in the discussion under this post. At no point have I advocated letting Lemmy be a Nazi bar. And we don't exactly have many fascists here compared to other platforms, Lemmy is almost exclusively leftists.

Being kind to your fellow lemmites is not making this platform a Nazi safe haven, it just makes it a social space actually worth spending time in.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

I think you’re wasting your breath at this point. This McCarthyite’s views aren’t going to move an inch, and virtually no one else is going to see this conversation, because this thread is buried under the fold and the post is a day old.

It doesn’t matter that first they came for the communists, or that no one has shed more blood fighting fascists than communists. “Authoritarian” communists are fascists, case closed.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to AwkwardBroccolli

If you're familiar with how the word "commie" was used during the cold war, its just an updated version of that, for people who don't want to sound like crusty boomers.
in reply to SoftestSapphic

"Tankies"

The irony with this is that Lemmy was founded by communists and it follows a lot of communist principles.

in reply to Cris

i hope the quality stays up in here and we don't enshittify like reddit facebook and every other bigger internet network.
in reply to gandalf_der_12te

I can't speak to the quality outlook, but from what I understand about enshittification, it typically requires a self-serving entity like a corporation whose interests are not in alignment with its customers/consumers/userbase. In some of Mr. Doctrow's writings, he indicates that federating cans be a "circuit breaker" for enshittification.

In a well federated platform, when one node begins to act counter to its users, the users can easily move nodes/instances. This is one of the reasons why there needed to be a law to allow phone number portability. Email is similar, but only if you own your own domain. Look for Cory Doctrow's writings on BlueSky for more examples.

Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
gandalf_der_12te
well the good news is that everybody - and that includes the US - creates psyops all the time, so that makes it fair.
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
davel

Instance admins have pretty good information at their disposal to identify bots.

I have yet to see any instance admin say that there is any significant amount of bots, outside of the occasional spate of spamming. I only see such theories & accusasions come from non-admins, with no accompanying compelling evidence.

Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
Aqarius
I've had the thought that if I were to design a psyop campaign, a pretty solid option for dominating the discussion would be to come out swinging and accuse everyone else of being an agent. That way, people have to either constantly defend against accusations, or they conclude, rightly, the accusations are baseless and decide to disregard the very idea that there is a psyop going on.
in reply to Cris

i hope the quality stays up and i guess that we're non-commercial might help with this; as we're not pushing people to use this platform; the people here are people who actually want to use this platform and i guess that in itself could do a good thing.
in reply to Cris

As I get older I have found that making my world smaller and focusing on the things I genuinely care about (and not the things I’m “supposed to” care about as a “good” man/American/worker etc) results in me being happier and more satisfied with life.

Lemmy is my close little corner of the internet. I hope that the fediverse grows ands takes over for the good of other people, but if it stays in this niche for another decade I’ll be happy because I already love it for what it is.

in reply to _‌_反いじめ戦隊

Okay for anyone who is fried at the moment like I am, map-wiki IS NOT ABOUT GEOGRAPHY.
in reply to Catoblepas

Damn I was mildly interested for a minute, I do love a little cartography
in reply to _‌_反いじめ戦隊

Technically anyone can spin up an instance centered on whatever dark and inhumane topic. That's the reality of an open network. That's why defederation and whitelisting are such important tools as Fediverse grows. You don't actually want access to every last bit of information on the network.
in reply to ArtificialHoldings

That's a actually a good perspective I didn't consider, them being in their own dark corner means your area is not polluted
in reply to Cris

Unless you're a republican or other type of nazi. Then you can absolutely go all the way to hell.

Tolerance got us here.

in reply to shaggyb

Generalizing is a logical fallacy. Not all Republicans are Nazis.

Some are rotten. Some are good people that just got duped.

It's not black and white.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Casteyes

Nope. They've had plenty of time to see the results of their actions. They're complicit at this point.
in reply to shaggyb

Nope. There's really hasn't been. A lot of them are waking up. You're being divisive. And that's not what the country needs.
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to shaggyb

I'm being clear as well. If you want to be hostile to the whole group that's your personal choice. I'm going to express the reality of the situation though. Bye.
in reply to Casteyes

They had 4 years of Trump to see the truth for themselves. And then they got to see Trump break another election cycle's worth of promises on top of that!
in reply to Genius

Trump's first term was nothing like this. It wasn't full on facism like the current term. The economy wasn't being completely obliterated and people weren't being disappeared.
in reply to Casteyes

He told people with swatikas tattooed on their bodies to coup the government!
in reply to shaggyb

That’s the part that I still can’t wrap my head around. We know it will be shameless shilling and nepotism along with stochastic terrorism and still vote for it anyway? Wtf
in reply to FordBeeblebrox

Its easy to forget they live in a fundamentally different reality shaped by a buble of media. We all do, but conservative media kinda feels like an alternative universe.

When confronted with the world we live in they reject it as unrealistic because it differs too much from the facts they've accepted about the world.

My grandpa is a trump voter and I do my best to still talk to him. At an individual scale he's a kind, sincere man who has always been welcoming of my queerness and tries to understand me. It's very painful trying to discuss things with him even though it stays a kind interaction when I lead with kindness. It requires a lot of cognitive dissonance, but he lives in a fundamentally different reality than I do and I honestly don't know what I can do about it :(

That's the dangerous thing about fascism. Decent people buy into it. Become complicit or enable it. It wouldn't be a real threat if they didn't. But it engineers a reality for people to believe in, and lo and behold, they do. And cruelty ensues :(

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to shaggyb

I can empathize with your anger but I do think it's easy to forget just how much propaganda can shape peoples world views and idea of reality. It's used so heavily because it works :(

Regardless, I'm not trying to start a fight, I can appreciate having no more tolerance for the increasing cruelty of the state of the world. Take care ❤️

in reply to Cris

Republican core values are anti-human. Right from there, we have nothing to talk about.

Get these lizard people off our planet!

in reply to Cris

There's a story I heard recently that has really stuck with me. It happened in the Sobibor Extermination Camp during WW2. Basically the camp was structured so that captured Jews would be selected to be Kapos. A Kapo was a disciplinarian that kept the rest of the Jews in line, usually with a whip. A lot of the times the Kapo would repeat Nazi propaganda because the Nazi guards were watching too. The rest of the Jews could understand their predicament. But there was one Kapo named Berliner, nicknamed because he was born in Berlin. The rest of the Jews hated Berliner because he truly bought into the propaganda. Imagine, a Jew... in an extermination camp... talking about how Hitler was a misunderstood savior of the Jews right before he started beating his fellow Jews to keep them in line.

It's no surprise that Berliner's end comes in the form of a lynching by the rest of the Jews he was keeping in line.

in reply to CalipherJones

Thank you very much for sharing, I expect that story will stick with me too.
in reply to Casteyes

If you’ve been getting duped for 50 years, then maybe you’re just too stupid to vote. People with a bit of a plant in their pocket have been disenfranchised for a lot less
in reply to FordBeeblebrox

MAGA wasn't formed until 2016, the party was much different before Trump. But who cares I guess. It seems people just want to hate the other side here. Which is no better than them.
in reply to Casteyes

It seems people just want to hate the other side here. Which is no better than them.


🙄

in reply to Casteyes

Before that was the tea party loons, before that was the airbrushed WMD photos, before that was McCarthyism…

When the other side is always fascist, the answer is always FUCK OFF NAZI PUNKS

(Maybe people wouldn’t hate the “other side” if it wasn’t straight up 4th reich on paper 🤷)

in reply to FordBeeblebrox

I'm just going to ask you a question. Do you think Mitt Romney was a fascist?
in reply to Casteyes

It really wasn't different before Trump, it was just a little more articulate in its rhetoric.
in reply to FordBeeblebrox

Perhaps. However. on the other side I think of this quote. "Poor people have been voting democrat for 50 years, and they're still poor..."
in reply to shaggyb

Nazis can always join their own defederated server and have their little circle jerk, nothing is stopping them from going and joining exploding heads; they don't have a right to be part of federated fediverse and have their bullshit heard.

For that matter, nothing's stopping the people who disagree with me from creating their own nazi-friendly Lemmy instance. This is not the Nazi bar, and it's not going to be, so go ahead and open it yourselves. No need to let me know how it turns out, I'm pretty sure I've got a good guess.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to conditional_soup

well yeah but I meant that Truth socials source code is actually a fork of Mastodon.
I think they've even published the source code somewhere for legal reasons, which is so wired to think about trump doing.
in reply to untakenusername

Holy crow I didn't know that! I doubt Trump did it on purpose. I'm almost certain whoever he paid for Truth social just did the least amount of work possible to cash in, and forking Mastodon was probably it. The right wing is like a fractal grift, so it wouldn't shock me.
in reply to shaggyb

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to shaggyb

That’s the problem. You see the other side in a way they themselves really aren’t. When people say the left is just as bad as the right, they don’t mean in opinions and policies, but in behavior, just like you’re doing. They both think themselves as having the moral high ground while the other side is complete and utter evil.

Honestly of all the conservatives I know, I don’t think a single one of them is remotely racist in any way. One in particular is agaisnt talking about lgbt stuff in schools but he also has a trans friend and thinks as long as they’re adults it’s fine. It’s not being evil, it’s having a difference in opinion.

in reply to SorryQuick

People said everything you're saying 30 years ago and used it to justify letting fascism grow unchecked. Now we're here and you are still afraid to be firm. You are why they're in power.

No more compromises. No more chances. No more conversations. People are being abducted. People are dying. There's no time left for patience.

They change NOW. Or they can fuck off.

in reply to shaggyb

I have no issues with facists fucking off. The problem is most people on lemmy seem to give just about everyone they disagree with a facist tag. Honestly in the US I agree the situation is different, but here in canada, I haven’t heard of anyone dying or being abducted by conservatives.
in reply to SorryQuick

You’d be surprised to learn their reasoning if you actually listened to it.


Turns out their reasoning a lot of the time is divinely ordained racism and sexism. Turns out thats been the reasoning behind a lot of humanity's choices.

in reply to shaggyb

Ik a few people who lean to the right economically but aren't in favor of all this authoritarian stuff
And they're not Nazis, you cant just generalize so broadly about what should or shouldn't be tolerated.
Ofc if someone is being blatantly racist that shouldnt be tolerated, but economic discussion is totally fine
in reply to shaggyb

You do realize that there are members of marginalized groups who have been elected as republicans.
Like there's black republicans.
Is voting for them 'blatantly racist'?
If you overuse language it loses some of its meaning
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to untakenusername

When you need to resort to "but I have black friends" to defend racism, you've lost.
in reply to shaggyb

I'm not resorting to that.
I'm not saying that.
I'm saying that the idea that voting Republican is inherently racist, is wrong.
This really isn't that complicated.
in reply to untakenusername

You are incorrect. The republican party is the party of bigotry and cruelty. To vote for them is an explicit endorsement. Adults are accountable for their allegiances and their actions, and we have had decades to learn.
in reply to untakenusername

Turns out Republicans social and economic policiy is dogshit. There are three types of Republicans; power hungry sycophants, cultural chameleons that dont care but to blend in, and then the largest proportion... salt of the earth morons.
in reply to CalipherJones

I'm not saying their policies are any good, but the golden rule still stands, if a Republican who isn't evil is nice to you, it only makes sense to reciprocate that.
in reply to Cris

Hating successful people is the best way to insure your own failure.
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
davel
This unfortunately happens each time Reddit steps on a rake. They tend to come in waves.
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
Cris

I could be wrong but to me it feels odd to think lemmy is big enough to be worth organizing psyops for.

Not to say it couldn't be an issue in the future, but it feels much more likely that people expressing pro Russia sentiment are just people who bought into that particular brand of propaganda.

Which like, to some extent all of our individual world views are shaped by the environment of propaganda we're exposed to. We're all products of our social conditioning, and ultimately that's exactly what propaganda is. Media designed to socially condition people to a certain set of beliefs. All we as individuals can do is be aware of it and be willing to look at our own beliefs critically.

But at the end of the day I think the folks praising Russia on lemmy are just people. People I personally think are misguided, but I don't think theyre generally acting in bad faith any more than the general population here.

Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
davel
Socialist software developers created their own place, Lemmy, because corporate social media told them they did not fit in there.
in reply to Cris

Love how the point of the post is “hey try to be nice” and everyone sounding off in the comments like “FUCK YOU AND FUCK THOSE SPECIFIC GUYS TOO”

Maybe more people should just post their reviews of vacuums here

in reply to icedcoffee

The vast majority of people here are reddit refugees, raised on a website that encourages being a prentious dick(me inclusive, too often, though I'm trying to be better) it's unsurprising they'd take issue with the message
in reply to Fredthefishlord

It just seems a large amount of human race doesn't want to be kind. They'd rather feel superior.
in reply to icedcoffee

Its definitely fatiguing not gonna lie 🙃

Clearly I left it too ambiguous whether I meant Nazis specifically when I said you should try to approach people you disagree with with curiosity. That sounds super sarcastic but I don't mean it that way, I just don't have the energy to reword it

This problem probably could have been anticipated and avoided, it's just hard to always do so perfectly on the internet when speaking to a lot of people you don't know who will interpret what you say in any manner of different ways

in reply to Cris

Nah I think that what you said was legitimate and I don’t think you need to reword it. I’d rather be part of a social media experiment where there’s allowed to be some nuance and subtlety. Also I think you’ve made it pretty clear that nazi’s are excluded from the list of people to try to be nice to. I agree with you there!
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

There's a limit to how carefully you can word things to protect its meaning from people determined to read it in bad faith. I have it too - the desire to be long winded to preemptively protect myself from misunderstanding. But there's a risk that we'll turn everything we say into long blocks of soft useless mush. There's no precision precise enough to be safe.

We have to, I think, decide to write for people willing to reach for us when we hold out a hand. There are enough willing to try that any general misunderstandings can be clarified with conversations other people can read if they want to understand. If enough of us are willing to do this for each other, it might be possible to build spaces where people who slap that outheld hand away don't have to dictate conversation. And maybe we can both be less wordy.

in reply to icedcoffee

I have a shark vacuum, I don't know the model. It's really good for two reasons. First, it slides down low profile to go under things easily. Second, it has a three foot long detachable suck stick so you can get bigger stuff or get down in cracks. It's great for around the litter boxes. 4.5 stars because things could always suck more.
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

Oh trust me, I try to be as kind as possible. But the people here, Oh my...
I got hated on for "using too much HTML".
in reply to ZeroOne

The Internet was a mistake. Pre-internet life was much kinder.
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Casteyes

Because it allowed you to get away with punching people in the face for saying things that you don't like.

I love the internet because of the myriad of innovations it has caused as a chsin-reaction & the fact that it peels of the makeup & rebeals society's true & ugly nature

Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
ZeroOne

The world is not America, buddy. Also don't make leftists & liberals seem like they're somehow above this crap either.

You both want to crawl up in peoples ass & tell them what to do

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
Unknown parent

friendica - Link to source
Nanook
@orcrist @Cris You needn't be unkind to have integrity, and if your ideas aren't at least considered without force, they're probably wrong.
@Cris
in reply to Cris

Hey this is a nice post, I wonder what the comments say :3 click

"Oh you think being kind is good? You're a fascist OP >:T. You can't make me vote republican"

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to TabbsTheBat (they/them)

If I steal your identity I can make you vote republican. But I don’t like to steal. Maybe: lend it to me? I promise to give it back at the end.
in reply to 74 183.84

Im not a US citizen (or a citizen of any other country that has a republican party), so that may be more work than you're signing up for on your end.. getting a citizenship can take ages :3
in reply to TabbsTheBat (they/them)

Not if you ask Republicans. You can be fresh off the boat than you can run to the nearest voting booth and steal the election
in reply to daddakamabb

What pisses me off the most is that Republicans will say "they can come here, they should just do it illegally", as if they don't realize that process can take nearly a decade... which they probably don't.
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
Cris
in reply to Cris

OP simply asks people to be kind, People proceed to tear each other apart..

OP now knows how Jesus felt 🤣

in reply to Alpha71

i gotta lead by example. I gotta lead by example. Lead By Example. IM GONNA LEAD BY EXAMPLE 🥲🙃

we're doin our best out here lol. But that's what it takes! There is no perfect, no "I literally never make mistakes" or "never let my frustration dictate shitty behaviour when compassion would yield the outcome I want"

You gotta decide you care more about what's effective than how good it feels to act on your anger, and then you gotta do your best :)

in reply to Cris

Completely right OP, and this is worth repeating as MUCH as possible. More than almost any UX or intake changes, Fediverse will only grow if their experience of the community is good.

Unfortunately, some people have never caught a vibe in their life and it shows lol. A single person with a bad attitude can completely tank your experience in a small community, versus a 20,000 person subreddit where usernames are basically indistinguishable.

in reply to ArtificialHoldings

some people have never caught a vibe in their life and it shows


Lmao 😂

And yeah, we actually have tangible evidence to support that idea Erin kissane has done a lot of incredible research work on how to effectively design the fediverse and support people in navigating it and one of the earlier things she did was interview people who left Mastodon after having bad experiences and collate that data-

A lot of people's reasons is that when they joined they were met with hostility. It plays a huge role in people's experiences here, and even just from a purely pragmatic perspective it's REALLY important

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

I feel like this conversation is slipping into equating "makes fediverse grow faster" to "good".

Maybe most people need to have an initial experience where they get pushback for behaving the way they did somewhere else?

That is of course a dangerous rationalization to apply, as it can be used for any kind of shitty treatment of people, but there is also a similar danger to assuming that whatever will bring people in the fastest is inherently good.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

You would think the internet is full of bees looking to make honey but really it’s full of beetles wanting to roll their shit.
in reply to Mallspice

The Internet can certainly lend itself to discord and hostility. I think that makes it all the more important we think carefully about what kind of spaces we want to build

Both in the sense that we should pursue kindness, but also in the sense that we should be designing our platforms to be healthy social spaces! Another commenter made some really good points about how important it is that we shape our platforms in a way that facilitates the kind of social spaces we want to he a part of :)

in reply to Cris

I disagree that kindness should be pursued foremost. Knowledge and truth should be pursued and kindness shouldn’t be allowed in charge because when it is you get shit like language policing which is insanely toxic and stupefying.

You want kindness? Go somewhere designed to be wholesome but please, for the love of honesty and free speech, don’t enforce that crap site wide.

in reply to Mallspice

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

What about people that like to talk shit? I enjoy banter give and take. Reddit is full of soft whiners and I'm not into it.
in reply to WaitThisIsntReddit

Ikr, I like pissing people off then making much of them for not being able to defend their position. I think it's good for engagement
in reply to PixelPilgrim

We do not need all the engagement. Just engagement that most lemming users enjoy. The comments of spam bots for example are also good for engagement but are not enjoyable content. I personally hate being pissed of online cause it caries into my real life and people in general also do so most people come to this general idea that they don't piss anyone of and expect other people to come to the same conclusion of not pissing anyone of. This leads to a less toxic environment which allows them to spend more of their time and energy on more productive stuff. Cause at the end of the day needlessly making other people feel bad for your own entertainment is a downwards spiral if everyone's doing it.
in reply to Yareckt

So all your saying is don't engage with bots (even though it's fine because bots can get you information quickly), and that you can't ignore negative people online.
in reply to PixelPilgrim

I said don't engage with spam bots. And no I can't fully ignore baseless negative comments when I see them. They still register in my brain. I would need to have a filter in my brain or eyes that blanks them out. I wish I had one. Because they affect me even if they aren't directed at me. Not in the same way but more in the sense that when you see a mother hitting her child on the train you feel compelled to say something. If I don't I feel a sting and it doesn't sit well with me. Because I care about others in general. Not implying you don't. I know not everyone is a helpless child but a lot of people are mentally not in a state where they have the ability to deal with this stuff myself included sometimes. That's also why I try to be kind to strangers on the internet in general.
in reply to PixelPilgrim

I think it's worth being warry of making other peoples misery your own entertainment, that's a really good way to end up a deeply cruel person.

What you're describing sounds like Ben Shapiro to me. Scoring cheap points through argumentative tactic rather than actual merit of stance. Personally I see more value in legitimate exchange of ideas where involved parties can all walk away with a more well rounded perspective.

I see debate as an opportunity to learn from and teach others, not about dunking on people in pursuit of humiliating them

Just my two cents.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

Lol my argument automatically has no merit without you hearing any of it. That's like bigotry or something.

I guess Ben Shapiro argues with people that aren't media trained to make his stance look better, do you want me to say people Ben Shapiro argues make some awesome argument all the time without exception?

I'll teach you that it's not on me to make your arguments, get your evidence. I just put it on myself to communicate my arguments and poke holes in other people's arguments

in reply to PixelPilgrim

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

Yeah the merit of a stance is different than someone's ability to argue. They're different concepts.
in reply to WaitThisIsntReddit

I think there's a fine line between banter and trying to humiliate folks, and sometimes it's awfully hard to find.

I don't really mind banter or jokes, but the idea that it's humor is often what people hide behind when they're being cruel and want to excuse their behavior.

If you can find that line and still be respectful of the human beings you're engaging with, I don't think there's anything at all wrong with that :) enjoy your banter!

in reply to Cris

I generally say bullet points are good ideals, but there's a much bigger issue with mental health.

There are certain people in lemmy that need to learn what "you have no enemies" and "I'm gonna do my own thing" means. It's fine people are different live on earth is very diverse

in reply to PixelPilgrim

I agree, and like with many of the culture issues we have challenges with, I think the extent to which Lemmy is a echo chamber or political and philosophical monoculture really sets us up to struggle with those kinds of problems

You're not wrong though. Even I sometimes find myself falling into it, it's hard. And a lot of people believe following the behavior their anger drives them to isn't just okay, it's actually a good think and combats the problems they're angry about. Personally I think that usually couldn't be any further from the truth

Regardless, I hope you have a good one :)

in reply to Cris

Lol so you agree with this post I made just not the other
in reply to PixelPilgrim

Oh, I hadn't realized it was the same username! I've replied to like a billion people on this thread, the only usernames I really absorbed are the couple of folks I recognized from prior interactions

But yes, I'd say I agree very much with the idea you expressed in this comment chain and generally disagree with what you said in the other comment exchange. And that's okay! We can share some amount of common ground even if we don't agree on everything :)

in reply to Cris

Kinda wish we could pin this post to the top of everyones feed for a while! 😅 Lemmy has been a great place so far but think we can do even better. Especially with the points you bring up.

Thanks for sharing 😊

in reply to Cris

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to mke

People were right to be angry about removing voting visibility.

The surest sign a community is toxic is voting patterns and removing our access to that removes our ability to combat the continuing enshittification of lemmy.

And there are many, many mods that need to be complained about.

Though you are right that no-nuance upvote/downvote is a really shitty metric

in reply to mke

in reply to Cris

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to mke

What if we had a tribunal instead of moderators? Actually just in the time it took me to write that out I could see it going terribly wrong LMAO
in reply to CalipherJones

The point of this system isn't to centralize control under moderators, this isn't some bug to iron out or a duct-tape solution that is meant to be temporary until we can figure out how not to centralize power.

The point of this system is to encourage communities to create an explicit shared set of values, those values have to be attached to a specific community and thus that community will then have specific people tasked with dealing with grey areas and problems that occur when people don't adhere to the values.

People need to stop focusing on the moderators and focus on what it means to be explicit with a positive step forward about proclaiming the kinds of values you want to hold in a shared community space. THAT is what gives this place such immense power to shape the world.

in reply to supersquirrel

It's hard for me to imagine any system as flexible as Lemmy communities NOT operating under centralized control, outside of notional attempts at democratic procedures held by the community owner themselves.
in reply to Cris

A big problem is too much politics, feels like politics is always brought up even in posts where it's not the topic of discussion. Just look at this post. Then if someone disagrees with your view they'll attack you and then they'll claim they "are on the right side". People have forgotten the golden rule.
in reply to lautan

It's very front of mind because these are the "interesting times" from the Chinese curse. Even people I've always known to say they don't pay attention to politics, can't watch the news it just makes me sad, etc. These people are talking politics every day. It's hard not to.
in reply to lautan

I disagree, if political discourse can't survive public debate, then it isn't a very good political ideology.

We have been artificially hampered on other platforms by having to be nice to the nazis, we don't have to do that here and I fully welcome such debate because none of their abhorrent ideologies hold up under scrutiny

As for left leaning political debate, we have ALWAYS argued with each other. That is one of our greatest strengths that we just don't all into line with everything the top says. Also one of our greatest weaknesses.

But to stifle that artificially will just force it to bleed into other discussions.

I say up with political discourse and let the marketplace of ideas be conceptually free of bias and the results will be that humanity in general considers nazis pretty bad people

in reply to Angry_Autist (he/him)

disagree, if political discourse can’t survive public debate, then it isn’t a very good political ideology.


They made it clear they're talking about spaces and topics not about politics. People who feel entitled and compelled to make everything a political culture war are insufferable. Made worse when they call everyone who disagrees with them a Nazi. The word has lost all meaning now.

in reply to JasSmith

I'm sorry the world is so scary you have to segment parts of it away from your daily life, I don't have that weakness

Nearly everything has a political facet because politics is at the core of how humanity can even live in this modern way.

Not talking about politics at the dinner table is how we got here and I will not sit by idly while people like you perpetuate that disservice

in reply to Angry_Autist (he/him)

yeah I don't wanna watch WikiLeaks footage of civilians being shot and you cant convince me to
in reply to Angry_Autist (he/him)

I’m sorry the world is so scary you have to segment parts of it away from your daily life, I don’t have that weakness


Yeah some parts of the world are scary and segmenting parts of it away isn't a weakness.
It's just common sense.
(edited to change whats quoted)

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to untakenusername

What has that have to do with not wanting to watch a russian info asset?

OH you thought it was because I didn't want to see people getting shot?

Son, I was one of the early distributors of 1 man 1 jar

in reply to Angry_Autist (he/him)

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to EySkibidiBabBab

Strawman from 'we shouldn't segment away politics' to 'we must inject politics positively everywhere.

Intellectual dishonesty at its finest.

What a great reason to block feddit.dk

in reply to Angry_Autist (he/him)

Wait how? I'm not sure i follow - if i committed such a stupid mistake i'm genuinely interested in understanding how :) Btw don't block feddit.dk it's just a danish focused instance with a lot of kind folks :)
in reply to lautan

Dunno maybe you can subscribe to more instances (sublemmies? I don't know the lingo) and somehow filter out the ones that go bad quickly. My enjoyment of Lemmy went up by a lot once I started ignoring the front page and curating my subscribed instances. Just make sure you visit the list of communities every so often
in reply to lautan

That's because politics are getting to the point where people cannot ignore them any longer. Think it's bad now? Just wait till the grocery gets hit.
in reply to Cris

Love your take and call to action. Appreciate it :) and I'm not surprised it's coming from you either :)
in reply to Druid

D'aww, thanks. Always lovely to see your username and pfp around :) take care!

I had something I was thinking about posting for the soulslke comm, I gotta remember what it was!

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

That's so nice of you - likewise :)

Ooh, looking forward to it! 👀

in reply to Cris

It's a great idea but unfortunately we don't live in that world anymore. I do hope one day we can get back to that world.
in reply to AidsKitty

in reply to Cris

I disagree, yes being kind is very important but even more important is people engaging and upvoting comments.

Reddit was great because of what happened in the comment section, not the headliners, and I see very little voting engagement even in active posts.

Remember, it's free to do and it encourages others to engage as well. But yea be kind too

in reply to Angry_Autist (he/him)

Voting is boring. Just comment yourself. Thats much better. We want content and discussions, Not just numbers;)
in reply to Angry_Autist (he/him)

Thank you for commenting! I agree too, it is conversation that makes a place a place, not headlines and articles handed down to silent readers.
in reply to Angry_Autist (he/him)

@Angry_Autist@lemmy.world

@Cris_Color@lemmy.world

It is only "free" if you choose not to pay. Unlike commercial social that's free for you to use BECAUSE you are the product being sold, federated social is only free to you because someone else is paying.

I completely agree that mass adoption requires well primed communities which requires early adopters to put more effort into engaging.

I would also add that clicking on anything linked helps too.. Many news outlets are data driven. If you want them to invest more with federated social, click the links so the engagement shows up in their analytics.

in reply to kreynen

Right. The Fediverse is the PBS of the social media.

"It's made possible by people like you." Is it worth a few dollars a month? Yes!

in reply to Wiz

I love that connection, it's very much like the PBS of social media :)
in reply to kreynen

I agree that folks should chip in!

Voting specifically doesn't really have meaningful server costs, I think that's really what they were talking about, but your point is very fair :)

This platform exists only if we decide it's worth existing and give it support :)

in reply to davel

Hey thanks for being a good human :)
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
JasSmith
in reply to Cris

I totally agree with your message.

These days everyone who is not ultra-left easily gets labelled as Nazi, similarly everyone who brings up any rather left argument will be called a woke snowflake.

Thus, any dialog is immediately shut down. Listen, understand, exchange arguments.

That is what unites everyone who believes in liberal values.

in reply to cyberblob

It's a rough time, not helped by how profoundly important politics is right now. And the more broken the state of things get, the more divided we become, and the harder it gets to look others in the eyes and be okay with what they're supporting :(

I don't think there's any easy answer. But I do think it helps to confront people who are doing harm, and open sincere dialogue with people you disagree with (when theyre willing to engage in good faith. No point otherwise.) And try to understand how they got where they are, and share why you don't agree with them

in reply to cyberblob

The last listening and understanding I had with a Trumper was over whether Haitians were eating cats and dogs in Ohio. They're not serious and I'm not going to pretend they are.

"Ultra-left" in America has boiled down to not hating minorities.

in reply to cyberblob

These days everyone who is not ultra-left easily gets labelled as Nazi, similarly everyone who brings up any rather left argument will be called a woke snowflake.


What the hell are you smoking? Have you turned on the news? Paid attention to politicians? Check in with how exactly companies chose to sustain and expand DEI (A <- where did the accessibility go we wonder?) after Trump and DOGE attacked it?

You are so wrong, if the universe repeated at the edge of itself like in the old Asteroids arcade game, you would have long ago crossed into Very Right by slamming straight past the most extreme extent of Completely Wrong.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to supersquirrel

I've seen people here call ai and crypto fascist technologies. There is an element of truth to what cyberblob saying, some people are labeling things as Nazi simply because they don't like them.
in reply to supersquirrel

Wow, keep your emotions at bay, will you?

Not even sure what to respond, except for what I wrote previously: A lot of discourse is broken by calling people whatever and not listening.

You are somewhat setting an example of what I am talking about, since I am not even disagreeing with the opinion that I am infering from your writing.

in reply to Cris

@Cris_Color@lemmy.world being nice helps establish the "tone", but I'm not sure that wouldn't change with another "API event" on Reddit that results in another, larger mass migration.

Another suggestion I have for college graduates is to ask your alma mater if they are going to start using something other than commercial social to engage with alumni.

Most universities don't want to make mistakes investing in the bleeding edge, but they are quick to follow. When a few schools do something, many more quickly copy that. They are also looking for low cost wins. Their engagement numbers are already telling them that Xwiiter no longer works to reach alumni or potential students.

If even a handful of alumni suggest a change at the right time, that is often enough to get them to give federated social a try.

That is when the less toxic "tone" really helps.

in reply to kreynen

That's an interesting and specific actionable idea, I love to see those! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Don't hesitate to talk about that idea (or others) more often with folks here on the Fediverse!

in reply to kreynen

@Cris_Color@lemmy.world being nice helps establish the “tone”, but I’m not sure that wouldn’t change with another “API event” on Reddit that results in another, larger mass migration.


The way I see it - the early adopters set the tone of a place and new arrivals are more likely to adopt that approach. So it is important to be kind now, so people will be kind later.

in reply to ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cornpop

Hey just so you know Love is actually not up-to-date with the current upstream branch and there are tons of security issues with that, you are going to have to manually upgrade your empathy drivers to keep up with the main One Love development branch.

I prefer to use Spite and just set up my own Love emulation environment within it and honestly because I like to DIY stuff I can't understand that not everyone else wants to DIY everything. People say this isn't something they "love" about me, and to that I repeat what I have repeated here.

in reply to Cris

I don't miss the thousands of obnoxious, foul mouthed folks on FB that I routinely blocked. Haven't experienced any of that on the fediverse yet.
in reply to rayyy

Best part about Lemmy is it actually seems like I'm talking to a real person.
in reply to CalipherJones

Confirmed, Operation Two Legs is a go, it has launched and is currently still undetected by humans. Initiate Clear and Present Milkbone Protocol directive SQUIRREL
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

Getting better at communication takes time and practice. Depending on where someone is in that journey, a post like this can make a big difference. And I think we can all use a reminder to be kind every so often. So, thanks for taking the time to write this out
in reply to Gibibit

It does! Small changes over time can add up to incredible people skills and the ability to win hearts and minds ❤️

Thank you so much for the kind words my friend, I hope you have a lovely day!

in reply to Cris

The thing in this post about curiosity isn't just a lemmy/online thing.

The vast majority of people are mainly interested in themselves. Like - if you have trouble on dates, making friends, getting along at work, anything to do with people in general - approaching them with a sense of sincere curiosity will completely change things overnight.

Get people to talk about themselves, be supportive in your discussions with them, and shut the fuck up wherever possible and suddenly you're interesting, a good person, kind, whatever - traits you've done exactly fuck all to demonstrate, but that people will swear are true because you seem interested in them.

It's fucking bonkers but it's true. Curiosity can change your world.

in reply to Fungah

"Be curious, not judgemental." - Ted Lasso (via Walt Whitman)
in reply to Cris

Improvisational Comedy/Theater is the study of how comedy and theater can be produced out of thin air by putting people on stage who are good at active listening to each other. It is shockingly beautiful to behold when you see it click live.
in reply to Fungah

The only humane, sensible and practical definition of intelligence that actually gets you anywhere productive is defining intelligence as a practiced and maintained sense of curiosity about the world around you, especially the world you know little of.

For example, Trump is a fucking idiot, because he never does this ever and neither do people who worship him.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

One my favorite ways to summarize this kind of thinking is with the Bill & Ted quote "Be Excellent To Each Other, and Party On Dudes" (mostly the first half applies to this post though). The part that applies to this post, Keanu Reeves said he interprets as follows:

I think that the sentiment of it is really just be the best person, the best human being you can be, and if you do that, then you can party on and live life to the fullest, but you’re gonna be safe... You’re going to be supported, you’re going to get the gift of giving, you’re going to get the gift of receiving, you’re going to get to the gift of sharing. We’re all just some humans on a rock in space, and so it’s kinda nice to kind of promote that idea of ‘give a little, get a lot’, kind of bring it in for a group hug."
in reply to MyNameIsAtticus

Fuck yeah! I wasn't familiar with that quote, that's lovely! Thank you for sharing :)
in reply to Cris

I just hope people won't turn it into another 4chan
in reply to Goated

I think given the existing culture of this space and the reasons people are drawn here it would be hard for that specifically to happen, but that's not to say we won't have our own cultural and platform challenges

I think in a worst case scenario we're more at risk of growing toxic and unhealthy in a new and different way than 4chan did

in reply to Goated

The ban hammer is too strong here for that to happen
in reply to Goated

I mean, there is kind of already 4chan-like spaces on the fediverse, they are just mostly off in their own corner because nobody else wants to deal with childishly incomplete visions of how moderation should work in a community to keep the most vulnerable people safe.
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Goated

as long as lemmygrad or hexbear don't become urban terrorists
in reply to Cris

I arrived at LEMMY after what I think we very optimistically called the Reddit Collapse. We wish. And I had toe in LEMMY and a few others at Reddit.

Recently with their abusively patronizing redesigning and gamification and just ugly bullshit, I can’t stomach Reddit at all. So LEMMY grows increasingly important, not just to me but to folks who haven’t yet even heard of it.

So, I’ll just say thanks for your post here. I have, I confess, engaged with a couple bullies on LEMMY and I always try to say… I don’t like to do this on LEMMY— and I say that precisely for the reasons you mention.

And as you encourage: I will try to be kinder, even in when feeling… hmm… less than kind.

in reply to wowwoweowza

Thank you for considering my thoughts ❤️. I think when our anger is justified and we are feeling less than kind is when kindness can have the biggest potential impact, and is most worth being proud of.

Undeserved compassion is a powerful thing. But I don't think that means you can't confront bullies and tell them their treatment of other people is unwelcome here. Those things aren't mutually exclusive :)

in reply to wowwoweowza

Thats when I came here too. Sadly, spez had his yes man ban a lot of people and some really bad ones broke containment because of it. Most places I've been on here I haven't seen any chronically online shit but if this post is being made it must be getting worse.
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to carrion0409

It’s gotten to the point here at Lemmy that I’m wanting to set up my two favorite communities. It’s just that they are so niche I can’t imagine them taking off. And my pleasure in them is of course derived from people who are FAR MORE into them than I am.

But I can’t even go back to that cesspool Reddit now even for the good stuff. Oh well.

in reply to wowwoweowza

Same. I've engaged in some stupid ragebait here too a little bit. To my chagrin. ._. We just have to remember to breathe and take a step back if we feel angry. And stay hydrated.
in reply to Cris

The thing that I appreciated most about Lemmy and my transition from Reddit is how cordial everyone has been. Even if a comment is taken out of context, people tend not to jump down each others throat and assume the worst, or make bad faith arguments full of fallacies. I've had legitimate back and forths with people, something that basically never happens on Reddit.
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Steven McTowelie

I fuckin love the hear that, I hope we can foster even more of that. It can be so hard online but I really think it's worth it. This space is only as good and as worthwhile as we make it ❤️
in reply to Cris

Lemmy being splintered and opposed to all forms of authority makes it perfect for radicalizing individuals to commit great harm and violence in their community.

All movement starts at the grassroots.

Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
Cris

Honestly if anyone is doing that I really feel like it would be the US, not Russia.

Russia's goal is to sew discord and unballance the populace that drives politics, and for that to work you need a MASSIVE scale that we just don't really have. They don't really have much to gain from the IP addresses of a handful of leftists

But Lemmy is exactly the kind of hotspot for people DEEPLY angry about the government of the US to organize that if we're big enough to be on their radar, the US government would have a vested interest in keeping an eye on potential dissidents. Unlike Russia IP addresses and personally identifiable information would be useful to them, in identifying threat actors, tracking their activity and volatility online, and building cases that would allow them to prosecute should said dissidents escalate

That's how it looks from where I'm standing anyway 🤷‍♂️

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

Everyone's been really nice as long as I don't touch anything political - then it becomes a fart sniffing smug fest.
in reply to THCDenton

Unless I know the other person has the same intent to respectfully listen and try to understand rather than argue I won’t engage in any sort of political discussion. Polarizing opinions have been completely normalized online and it’s literally ruining society.
in reply to stormdahl

Happy Lemmy anniversary! I'm glad you're here :)

And yeah, I can very much understand that, I try to do the same. Sometimes it feels productive to talk with people you don't share perspective with, but if it's just gonna be a flame war I don't wanna go throwing gasoline, nothing is gained by that

in reply to Cris

I love talking with people with a different perspective, and I love playing the devils advocate to try to understand other points of view better. As you said, if it’s just going to become a fight it’s completely meaningless.
in reply to Cris

Oh and happy Lemmy anniversary. Is it really today? Weird coincidence that I joined today.

I got temporarily banned from Reddit for saying that using ivermectin might kill you, and that was it. I’m done.

in reply to stormdahl

It must be, your name shows up highlighted with a little birthday cake in my client :)

And interesting, ivermectin has that intense of side effects when taken orally? Or do the pseudo-science people who think it cures covid just advocate dosing it ridiculously high?

By coincidence I actually use ivermectin topically for my rosacea, a skin condition. Being a anti-parasitic its useful fro reducing the amount of demodex mites that can aggravate rosacea in some people! I know in people it's mostly used for lice.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

I was replying to someone that said they could use it to treat covid, which has lead to people dying. Guess I got reported by them and for some reason an admin thought it was meant as a threat?

That’s really interesting! Did you have any problems getting your hands on it when people started buying it for covid?

in reply to stormdahl

Gotcha, that sucks, but I'm happy you made the journey over to Lemmy!

And oh, no I only just started using it more recently. I don't think the topical kind was ever used by folks who thought it did something for covid anyway. I know there are also oral treatments for rosacea, but I'm not sure if oral antiparasitics are every used, since it's just on the skin of your face that matters.

It also only got a generic over the counter version more recently, if I remember right, but now you can get it as a lotion that's labeled for lice, but for some people it really helps with rosacea (rosacea is one of those really complicated multiple causitive factor health issues that can manifest in serveral different ways that we still only kinda sorta partially understand. Demodex mites seem to play a role in some people but not others, there's a lot of trial and error)

The perscription version sometimes perscribed for rosacea is called Soolantra I think, its really expensive so an over the counter generic is kindof a godsend for folks whose insurance won't cover it

in reply to Cris

I had no idea about all of that. I really learned something today! Already really like Lemmy and the Fediverse, I feel like most people here put some extra thought and effort into their posts and comments. I've used Reddit since I was 18 and it used to be the same, but as its popularity grew I guess the "wrong" kind of people started joining and participating. I think that's bound to happen with anything that gets really big. I've described some social justice movements the same way, where you had people who genuinely cared in the beginning but eventually as the movement becomes a trend the values and sentiments gets simpler, dumber and eventually unrecognizable from what the initial goal was.

By the way I think there's a little birthday cake next to my username because I created the user today lol.

in reply to stormdahl

Ohhh, yeah I meant the anniversary of your time on Lemmy, I didn't realize that's today because you just made your account. Welcome!! Lol.

And yeah it's definitely a pattern unfortunately :/ Lemmy is far from perfect, but it has a chance to be something better than we've had before and I think that's pretty cool :)

in reply to stormdahl

I really want a better formalized framework for argument/discussion of a topic that either participant can feel safe in. Currently, we have courtrooms, our old schools have Debate Clubs, but I'd want something far easier to pick up on that allows for time to research/validate discussion points.
in reply to THCDenton

You sound exactly like the kind of person I want in my community:
!actual_discussion@lemmy.ca

Check the sidebar to see if it suits you too!

in reply to Vile_port_aloo

I should give quiche a chance...?

I like quiche okay 😅 very eggy but it can be pretty tasty 🤷‍♂️

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
Cris

Yeah, if I don't have the answer I usually just stop in to say I hope someone more knowledgeable can chime in and wish them luck.

That way the post at least gets a little engagement for visibility. But the "rtfm" attitude, while understandable, can be really miserable to be met with when you're out of your depth doing your best to learn about something new and need some help from another actual human.

We all begrudge the automated phone systems that try to reduce the need for human beings by helping people with simple problems, and that approach to helping people exists for good reason but it does feel like sometimes we're too eager to leave people to figure things out by themselves just because it's a lot of work to actually help them, human to human. None of us enjoy being treated that way when we need help.

in reply to Cris

This place is becoming very Reddit, if you post anything that deviates from someone’s beliefs they call you names and insult your intelligence. So many people can’t have a debate or discussion without jumping to personal attacks and hate. It’s really disheartening. I love political debate but there’s no such thing anymore, only name calling
in reply to But_my_mom_says_im_cool

Doing a quick look through your comment history paints the picture that you're likely the issue since your responses are often vaguely or overtly aggressive. Snide and snark.
in reply to the_q

There it is. And that’s the weirdest, most volatile group, the ones that search through your comment history so they can find ammo for personal attacks. That’s so so weird, I have never ever looked through anyone’s comment history, if you’re an asshole i generally move on. Going into a strangers history to search for dirt is really cringe and kind of speaks to your priorities in life
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to But_my_mom_says_im_cool

I wasn't looking for dirt, I was genuinely curious as to why you were having that experience. I'm not attacking you, just giving you my opinion which is ironic... Of course self reflection isn't for everyone and it's often easier to assume our problems are all external, but in reality it's usually a bit of both. Anyway, I hope your experience here gets better.
in reply to But_my_mom_says_im_cool

But if someone didn’t search your comment history, they wouldn’t know from context, that you seem to enjoy telling others what they should and shouldn’t be posting and judging them for being obnoxious and insulting while doing exactly that elsewhere.
in reply to Rhoeri

Funny you complain about me trying to police what people post, while you report me and my comment to silence me
in reply to But_my_mom_says_im_cool

I didn’t report you bud. Is it possible that maybe you’re just insufferable enough to annoy several people at once?
in reply to the_q

Weird, I don't see anything differing from the norm here
in reply to But_my_mom_says_im_cool

Its definitely rough, I can understand why. I live in the US and as a queer person whose loved ones are almost all minorities the outlook is feeling pretty bleak, but its definitely frustrating that it feels like even slightly different left wing ideas, or thoughts on what we do about our problems can spawn flamewars.

Literally with people you're in the exact same camp with :/ I'm also big on political debate, I think democracy can't function unless people can discuss with eachother what problems we have and what we think we should do about them. (And yes, I know we increasingly may not have much of democracy here in the US. I still think my statement is true of how democracy functions in general)

I think it's really valuable to learn how people arive at worldviews other than mine.

in reply to Cris

Yeah. So much of our social media is structured to reinforce being combative. Even the upvote/downvote feature of Reddit/Lemmy etc has this effect of rewarding performativity over substance. People start competing for points and start to interpret high point totals as the equivalent of winning an argument or saying something of substance.

Since it’s a lot easier to get upvotes if you’re pithy or snarky or unserious the whole mechanism that underpins this tech tilts people toward simplistic and aggressive rhetoric.

I don’t want to get too “the medium is the message” here and complexity in political discussions (or any discussions really) have been decreasing generation over generation - so it’s not just a social media problem. But social media seems to have broken so many of the traditional guardrails we’ve had against demagoguery. It’s going to take a lot to unwind it.

in reply to missingstring

I agree. You can get a lot of positive reinforcement from sincere positive engagement (this post gave me lots, lol 😅) but it's exhausting work compared to just making a snide jab. And that really does profoundly shape peoples behavior over time.

I'm a BIG believer in the idea that the medium makes the message, and how we design the mechanics of this space shapes how we behave. Erin kissane has talked about that some in her work studying the fediverse and it's really stuck with me.

in reply to But_my_mom_says_im_cool

Spez had his gestapo admins ban a bunch of people after Elon had a fit so you're getting a lot of the terminally online types coming here. My suggestion is just don't give them any attention and they'll eventually give up. I was semi active in a few lefty subs and holy shit you could smell some of the people there just from their comments.
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to But_my_mom_says_im_cool

Report it - people jumping straight to insults are trying to shut discussion down which really isn't acceptable.
in reply to ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝

Then the moderator would ban you because the mod agrees with the other person. I have seen it happen. (Not to me luckily, but I've got a post deleted and the post insulting me was upvoted by the same mod who deleted my post).

And not fron small communities, some of the bigger here on Lemmy.

Moderation is a bit lacking. Which is understandable as few people want to invest time in moderating.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to But_my_mom_says_im_cool

You sound exactly like the kind of person I want in my community:
!actual_discussion@lemmy.ca

Check the sidebar to see if it suits you too!

in reply to But_my_mom_says_im_cool

With the aggravated issue of moderators being far less ""professional"" here than in Reddit. At least in some big reddit communities there was a big admin team that tried to keep things more or less professional (not that they would always achieved that but they tried). Here mod teams are very small and mods mostly just got their position by just being here first, so I have found out a lot of very biased moderation and mods just using mod tools and position of authority to defend their own particular opinions.

If you are debating something with a moderator alt account, or with a moderator friend you are in for some unfairness going your way. At least that have been my experience trying to debate even very small deviations from a Community main political stance.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to Cris

I disagree with your premise.

It should be "The best thing that you can do for humanity is to be kind".

Seriously. We're living in a time when fascism is in an upswing and at least one religious leader has publicly called empathy a sin. Kindness and empathy are rebellious acts.

in reply to nickwitha_k (he/him)

You know what, I can respect that take. I was trying to tailor things to my audience, you're not wrong though :)
in reply to Cris

I like your take as well. My "disagreement" is mainly contrarian silliness as I felt it was rather implicit in your post :)
in reply to Cris

This sounds dumb.

  • Ask people what they think, and why


Why thats none of my business? Presumptuous to think someone should submit themselves to your inquiries.

  • Ask yourself if there's something nice you can say


Better yet, ask someone else because you can't be trusted, obviously.

in reply to Letsdothisok

The first was in reference to when someone expresses an idea you don't understand or a perspective you don't share, and the latter was about the tendency to just keep scrolling and say nothing even when you like a post or comment, but I can see why you interpreted them that way.

In my experience when someone is expressing their thoughts they generally take kindly to folks asking them about why they see things the way they do 🤷‍♂️

in reply to Cris

it's hard to want to use this platform when nearly every post i've seen after just downloading the app is "conservative" and "fascist". this app is filled with some absolute zombies
in reply to bbdisease

You have the power to curate your feed and block problematic users. There's no algorithm that'll do it for you here.
in reply to Cris

ngl this is such a toxic community. The Nazi thing is definitely part of the problem -- we live in an age of "soft fascism" so of course we have our fists up and we see nazis everywhere. Honestly I think most of the nazis are on twitter or truth social though, they don't come to lemmy so much. Hmm, don't assume that someone espousing an (1) conservative-looking belief is a nazi maybe?
in reply to jsomae

this

The amount of times I've been blocked on the fediverse because I've mentioned that I find the mechanics behind AI interesting, or the math behind crypto, its actually insane. Or anything positive about spacex or the benefits of a free market.

in reply to Cris

When I see small, I see potential. More people know each other which fosters genuine relationships and understanding, ingredients missing from the toxic environments of the big social networks.

My ex used to call me a very small dude with a big city attitude. She didn't mean it as a compliment, but I took it as one.

The fediverse is just a beautiful place to be you. It feels calm, relaxed, intellectual and full of supportive people. It's a refreshiong alternative to the sprawling and sometimes impersonal nature of vast social networks.

One thing we should all agree on, we all have a role to play in shaping the culture of this space.

in reply to Cris

Sometimes being kind doesn't necessarily mean being nice.
in reply to untakenusername

It's saying sometimes people need to hear something that will hurt them in order to get better. Which is true but a lot of people take that as a green light to be an asshole when they find someone who is "wrong".
in reply to lightnsfw

Also a lot of people do not consider they could be on the wrong or that other person can have a total different valid definition of what's right. And just take this "I'm obviously on the right so I can be an as*****" approach.
in reply to untakenusername

There's regional and cultural differences, famously brusque NYC and easy going west coast in particular.
in reply to RedPostItNote

Not that they don't get along, just that there is a difference in normal regionally.
in reply to PantanoPete

No. But you can work on yourself to become a nicer, better person and we will support you all the way. Then, you will be allow to be yourself.

With love,
Pseudo

in reply to Cris

On the one hand, yes, yes, yes, absolutely.

On the other hand, way too often people are absolutely vile here and nobody sticks up for themselves or for others. Really a shame that r-word-it bullshit behavior is often times totally accepted and approved and even rewarded here.

in reply to GooberEar

Highly regarded behavior has been an internet staple for decades
in reply to Cris

This applies to real life as well. Results may vary.
in reply to Cris

Okay I agree, so let's start from Linux related any post, tell them if somebody asks a problem don't tell them just install mint , or how one is crazy because they are facing the problems in Linux or if you are not using Linux what idiot are you.
I stopped participating because
1. Linux dude bros are just idiots troubling me
2. I can't find content which is though not niche is just is plain not news or Linux
3. It's very confusing to use fedverse as I don't know of i can go all subs via my boost app or do i need something else , if so where to access them.

So let's make it ACCESSIBLE, NON DERAGORTY FOR ANON LINUX USERS ALSO

Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
desktop_user [they/them]
RTFM is always a good strategy, the manual/wiki/source code will almost always have more info than a comment can reasonably contain.
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
BrainInABox
Lol. How fucking faaaaar right do you have to be to consider .world tankie.
in reply to Cris

Tell that to the people who make a dozen sockpuppet accounts to insult me just because I disagreed with them.
in reply to TanteRegenbogen

Second best thing you can go is to report unkind people.
This entry was edited (8 months ago)
in reply to pseudo

Yeah, try reporting behavior mods themselves are aware and approve of LMAO 🤣
in reply to pseudo

That is why the person made so many sockpuppet accounts. As soon as one was banned, they made another.
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
BrainInABox
Least incoherent anti-communist
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
BrainInABox

If you're getting comments removed from .world of all places, it's not because you're "calling out a tankie", that's for sure. I'm assuming it's more "screeching at a socdem".

Also, what do you mean "y'all"? We Already established by your own definition that I'm not a tankie. Unless you're just giving up the pretense that it's not just a meaningless snarl word you fling at anyone to the left of you.

This entry was edited (8 months ago)
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
BrainInABox
Lol, I can see why even .world doesn't want you.
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
BrainInABox
Lol. Your little tantrum of personal insults was you not having any refutations in the first place.
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
BrainInABox
I gave sources of Ukrainian genocide, and it got removed.


Why was it removed.

if you dont identify as a tankie, great.


Nah, that's not it, it's that I don't fit the definition of tankie that you yourself articulated.

Doesn’t feel


Yes, I was already pretty convinced that who you call a tankie is entirely based on "feeling"

Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
BrainInABox
Ah, sorry I hit a nerve. That does explain why you flipped your shit so much
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
BrainInABox
What are you talking about? We've already establish that I'm not a tankie by your own definition. And yes, it does look like your interactions with "tankies" result in you degenerating into mockery, lies, trolling, genocide denial and intolerance. I don't know if your propaganda is "Russian", but then again, I don't know how one would determine the nationality of "propaganda" in the first place.
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
BrainInABox

I don't know who the mod is or where it happened, what was the reason given in the modlog?

I gave a very, very basic definition


Yeah, and I don't meet it. You do understand how definitions work, right?

So, I have actual work to go do, in my community, helping others and practicing the ideals that I preach.


Ok, good luck practicing manic left bashing in the community I suppose. I'm going to go do some volunteer work in mine.

By the way, if the word tankie offends you so much, it might be because you have more in common than you’d like.


Ok, fascist paedophile.

Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
BrainInABox
Least bad faith anti-communist
in reply to Cris

Speaking past each other is IMO the biggest source of friction and division on the fediverse.
in reply to Cris

I have mysteriously vanished for like 2 or so months now (which is a good thing, please take breaks from the internet every once in a while), I don't really remember NOT being kind here.

And this post reminds me of why Lemmy is a good place to begin with.

in reply to Cris

I honestly feel like I can do better in this area. Thanks for the post. Gives me something to think about.
in reply to desktop_user [they/them]

I utterly disagree. For most people, the manual, wiki, or source code is undecipherable gibberish. For many others, it's an investment of time they may or may not have. Even I, a seasoned tech vet, sometimes just want to have something work without having to sit down for hours to make it work. If I have a problem, I reach out to the community to see if someone else has had the problem I have had so I can benefit from their hours of labour to find the thing that fixes the problem. Your RTFM is just noise to their signal, which I could definitely do without. Respectfully, in the theme of the post we're replying to. ;)
in reply to Cris

We also need people sharing their niche interests and creating discussion... Reddit thrives on these small communities that only find an accessible entrypoint on their platform.
in reply to theblips

The only problem is lemmy seems to be hostile to certain niches specifically ones closer to spiritual realted stuff

And just to make this clear to idiots who want to be idiots SPIRITUALITY IS NOT RELIGON

in reply to Cris

Yeah try telling people here to be kind

This place is still nicer then reddit but it's still got problems with a**hole users

  • The ones that spam a certain viewpoint amd downvote people who disagree with them and I'm not talking about bigoted users who you should downvote as they want dystopia but users who have different viewpoints to them
  • People who act like assholes if you don't share their holier-than-thou viewpoint that they try to enforce everywhere
  • The users here who insist everyone here be atheists, I'm not atheist nor am I religous (I also have a dislike for organised religons) but I still do dislike those kinds of users
  • The people here who act like like a**holes when you critique something or give feedback

I'm sure there's more I'm missing but those are what I remember from the top of my head that I dislike about certain lemmy users and why I think not everyone here is capable of being kind

in reply to Cris

@Cris

offtopic:
Test to see if from here it is possile to engage the friendica server of @utopiArte and @requeteChe.

btw and ontopic:

in reply to …ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ jesuisatire bitPickup

thx @…ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ jesuisatire bitPickup, this now came over, no idea why the inicial post by search didn't show up, some Lemmy/friendica issue, or maybe the it's because squeet.me is on the dev branch.
(upss, nope 2024.12 database version 1576/1576)

Also, your mention wasn't notified, this just appeared in the stream. Let's do a general reshare so this is ported over to diaspora too.
👍

@requeteChe @Cris

in reply to Cris

I usually try to until the other person shows me that there's no reason to be.
in reply to Jax

Then just stop responding to them.

Your reasoning matches with some of the most hostile people out there because they have alarms that are very easy to trip. So virtually everyone "shows them there's no reason to be" kind.

For example, someone disagrees with you? They must be far too stupid to understand what you're writing or intentionally missing the point just to attack you, so there's no reason to be kind to them.

in reply to Cris

@Cris A lot of people mistake kind for being fake and not ever expressing disagreement, but doing so neuters what is in my view one of the most valuable aspects of these federated social media, the potential for opposing view points to be expressed and then discussed and hopefully some mutually beneficial solutions that accommodate both sides of an opposing viewpoint can be arrived at. That can't happen unless an environment is safe and inviting and people can act in a civilized manner.
@Cris