The best thing you can do for the fediverse is just be kind
The fediverse is small, and thats both a blessing and a curse - one of its several blessings is that in a smaller space we all individually have a bigger impact on what the culture of this space is like.
On this comm (and on lemmy broadly) there's a lot of discussion about how to grow the fediverse, what to improve, but an easy thing you can do for the fediverse is right in front of us-
- Be kind
- Ask people what they think, and why
- Approach folks you disagree with with curiosity rather than hostility (EDIT: no, this is not specifically referring to Nazis. I get it, they're the first thing that comes to mind. I'm not telling you to approve of Nazis I'm just saying be kind to your fellow lemmites)
- Engage sincerely
- Ask yourself if there's something nice you can say
- Make this small space worth being in
A platform lives or dies by what's available on said platform and often we have this conversation in the context of "content" or posts - and we may never have as much content as reddit does. But content and posts aren't the only thing this kind of platform offers- it also offers people. It offers community, and human interaction.
Culture and community is lemmy and the fediverse's biggest differentiator, and we all have a role to play in shaping the culture of this space.
***The biggest thing you can do to help the fediverse *is make it a place worth being.****
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Cris
in reply to Cris • • •Here are some more specific examples to think about!
Thanks for taking the time to read my thoughts :) if you have thoughts of your own, I'd love to hear them!
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Rhaedas
in reply to Cris • • •Cris
in reply to Rhaedas • • •Absolutely agree, some folks just wanna share, some folks wanna get constructive crit to try and technically improve! Its important to be respectful of what kind of interaction folks are looking for :)
And absolutely, talking about both good and bad doesn't just make it less unpleasant or more enjoyable to get feedback, it also makes better, more helpful feedback! (Assuming that's a thing they're looking for)
Shadow
in reply to Rhaedas • • •Aka the compliment sandwich. A technique I personally dislike. Be honest and open with your feedback in a positive way, don't try to hide it between compliments. If your feedback is simply negative, keep it to yourself.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compli…
rhetorical technique to deliver criticism
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Rhaedas
in reply to Shadow • • •I agree it can be used fallaciously, often found in the business world. My point was to include both good and bad honestly and not hide it, and people won't shut down if they get the good first. It also depends on the subject - if they're on the right track and your suggestion leads to better results, that's not as negative as telling someone they're doing something incorrectly and offering a different way.
In the end, how you say things is just as important as what is said.
richieadler 🇦🇷
in reply to Shadow • • •Lemmchen
in reply to Cris • • •pirat
in reply to Cris • • •Cris
in reply to pirat • • •I am! Thank you for asking :)
Ive gotten a lot of assumptions about what I meant and that's a bit frustrating but I really value honest sincere dialogue, if you have thoughts you think would be worth sharing I'd love to hear them my friend!
pirat
in reply to Cris • • •I thought I had hit reply on your other comment going into more detail (whoops!).
Like I did in this example, ask if people are open to feedback (if you're the one giving it).
Often when I am training groups on how to work together, I always try and frame feedback as a gift.
If someone is giving you feedback, they are genuinely trying to help you grow - and that's a gift. The issue here though, is not everyone is a good gift giver - and we can't control that.
What we do have control over is how we recieve gifts - often all you need to do is say thank you. Don't explain why you're not going to use this feedback (if you plan not to incorporate it). Other than clarifying the feedback to better understand how to incorporate it, saying thank you is the best way to go about it.
As far as delivering feedback I always say "if you can choose to be anything in this world why choose anything other than kind."
It is important to state that "being kind" doesn't mean not having the difficult conversations or delivering difficult feedback - you can still do th
... show moreI thought I had hit reply on your other comment going into more detail (whoops!).
Like I did in this example, ask if people are open to feedback (if you're the one giving it).
Often when I am training groups on how to work together, I always try and frame feedback as a gift.
If someone is giving you feedback, they are genuinely trying to help you grow - and that's a gift. The issue here though, is not everyone is a good gift giver - and we can't control that.
What we do have control over is how we recieve gifts - often all you need to do is say thank you. Don't explain why you're not going to use this feedback (if you plan not to incorporate it). Other than clarifying the feedback to better understand how to incorporate it, saying thank you is the best way to go about it.
As far as delivering feedback I always say "if you can choose to be anything in this world why choose anything other than kind."
It is important to state that "being kind" doesn't mean not having the difficult conversations or delivering difficult feedback - you can still do that without being cruel. Being assertive isn't being aggressive.
A bit rambly but if you're ever working with folx on delivering feedback, I've found that presenting these frameworks with it ste super helpful
SuiXi3D
in reply to Cris • • •like this
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Mike Wooskey
in reply to SuiXi3D • • •fubo
in reply to Mike Wooskey • • •like this
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Ogmios
in reply to fubo • • •monarch
in reply to Ogmios • • •Ogmios
in reply to monarch • • •monarch
in reply to Ogmios • • •Shardikprime
in reply to monarch • • •monarch
in reply to Shardikprime • • •fubo
in reply to Ogmios • • •To be clear, I mean people who praise Hitler, get swastika tattoos, blame everything on a Jewish Conspiracy, etc.
You know, Nazis.
JasSmith
in reply to fubo • • •SuiXi3D
in reply to Mike Wooskey • • •Almost as if the statement is referring to the paradox of tolerance.
By allowing people like Nazis, Christofascists, Tankies, etc. a platform, it only invites more sharing that view to spread their bullshit around. This makes those that don’t share those extremist views uncomfortable they then leave those places. You see it on platforms like Truth Social, X, and 4Chan.
If this is to be a kind place, we must encourage kindness and rid ourselves of unkindness. You can’t tolerate intolerance, lest it spread and take over.
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Banana
in reply to SuiXi3D • • •If you allow wolves and sheep into a space, that is a wolves-only space.
(For context, I agree with you.)
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dota__2
in reply to Mike Wooskey • • •like this
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Banana
in reply to Mike Wooskey • • •Sure, if you think of it as purely semantic, or a zero sum game with no nuance, but it's not.
Gotta be intolerant of those being needlessly cruel to those just trying to live their lives, and gotta be tolerant of those just trying to live their lives that don't affect you, even if you find it cringey.
rocket_dragon
in reply to Mike Wooskey • • •Paradox of Tolerance - Karl Poppler - 1945
It's a shame that something we already figured out 60 years ago still needs to be learned by most people.
The good news is, this is an opportunity for you to grow and be better right now. It's never too late to improve yourself.
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Coelacanth
in reply to rocket_dragon • • •rocket_dragon
in reply to Coelacanth • • •Wdym financial cashes, pandemic, doomscrolling, Trump got the presidency twice??
You're talking crazy it's only 2005 bro, futuristic computer interface means frutiger aero, I listen to music on my iPod and text on my candybar flip phone
</3
Coelacanth
in reply to rocket_dragon • • •Don't worry, at least 2005 was only ten years ago.
...wait.
misk
in reply to SuiXi3D • • •Banana
in reply to misk • • •The problem is politics impacts everything and the word "political" means different things to different people.
To some, talking about being gay is political, even though to people who are in that community, it's literally just talking about their lives.
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misk
in reply to Banana • • •Banana
in reply to misk • • •I definitely saw several comments that strike me as political, which is exactly my point, everyone has a different definition.
When every aspect of your life is affected by politics, everything is political.
misk
in reply to Banana • • •Banana
in reply to misk • • •Shardikprime
in reply to Banana • • •Yardy Sardley
in reply to misk • • •Cris
in reply to SuiXi3D • • •This is a whole different train of thought (mine is, I won't speak for yours) and I don't wanna derail my original thought but that's a thing I've been thinking about a lot lately.
I agree with you, and subscribe to the idea of tolerance as a social contract that, once broken, is no longer owed to the one who broke the contract.
At the same time, I've also learned that very explicitly, feeling persecuted is a requisite ingredient in radicalizing people into hate groups. And that at an individual scale, it's generally undeserved compassion that helps deradicalize them. We know this from the accounts of people who managed to leave hate groups- a little while ago there was really good (and long) interview with someone who used to be leader of a white nationalist group where he talked a fair bit about that idea, since he now works with a nonprofit that helps families and friends support and deradicalize loved ones, but it's far from the only account
At present I'm really not sure how
... show moreThis is a whole different train of thought (mine is, I won't speak for yours) and I don't wanna derail my original thought but that's a thing I've been thinking about a lot lately.
I agree with you, and subscribe to the idea of tolerance as a social contract that, once broken, is no longer owed to the one who broke the contract.
At the same time, I've also learned that very explicitly, feeling persecuted is a requisite ingredient in radicalizing people into hate groups. And that at an individual scale, it's generally undeserved compassion that helps deradicalize them. We know this from the accounts of people who managed to leave hate groups- a little while ago there was really good (and long) interview with someone who used to be leader of a white nationalist group where he talked a fair bit about that idea, since he now works with a nonprofit that helps families and friends support and deradicalize loved ones, but it's far from the only account
At present I'm really not sure how I personally reconcile those two things I belive to be true. The Nazi bar analogy is real.
I know wading into this more specific conversion runs the risk of immediately derailing what I was trying to start a discussion about, but I figured I'd share my thoughts. If anyone reads this and has thoughts to share (though I'd prefer not to get 50 comments just saying I suck for having complicated views on what we do about the predicament the US and world is in with the rise of fascist ideology. I'm interested in what's effective in terms of fixing the problem just like you are) I'd be interested in hearing them. I'm still looking for a way to synthesize my beliefs into a coherent whole.
Edit: thought I'd add the interview for anyone curious. I don't see everything exactly the way he does but I think understanding the problem and exactly how it works is necessary of we're going to address it, and I think his account is a really useful glimpse into certain aspects of how that world works
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pelespirit
in reply to Cris • • •Cris
in reply to pelespirit • • •Thanks for your thoughts, thats a bit different of an approach than I'd really thought about, I feel like my thoughts have kinda been stuck at both extremes
That gives me new things to think about, thank you ❤️
dota__2
in reply to Cris • • •gandalf_der_12te
in reply to SuiXi3D • • •i think if someone's intolerant, pointing out that they're wrong is something appropriate, but picking a fight over it is not worth it. it makes you like that person in that meme:
edit: in bad cases, report it and move on with your life.
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shaggyb
in reply to SuiXi3D • • •like this
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squirrel
in reply to Cris • • •like this
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Cris
in reply to squirrel • • •Oh neat, being younger there's a lot of how folks approached the web in its earlier years that I don't have any experience with, and think there's a lot to learn from
I love that!
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Rimu
in reply to squirrel • • •HulkSmashBurgers
in reply to Cris • • •Cris
in reply to HulkSmashBurgers • • •Baby steps! :) I found it helped me build the habbit if I kept an eye out for posts that could be cross posted to smaller more niche communities
There are a lot of times where a post only gets posted on a bigger community because it has enough traffic, and smaller niche communities would benefit from folks crossposting it around!
HulkSmashBurgers
in reply to Cris • • •Gormadt
in reply to HulkSmashBurgers • • •And not just memes and shitposts you find elsewhere
Make things and share
It ain't gonna be perfect but that's half the fun
Alphane Moon
in reply to Cris • • •Upvote, comment, post! Compliment good OC content (especially if it is posted regularly).
Bring more regular users if you can.
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Gradually_Adjusting
in reply to Cris • • •like this
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Cris
in reply to Gradually_Adjusting • • •Thank you very much, I do my best :)
By the way I love your username lol. Take care!
Gradually_Adjusting
in reply to Cris • • •Cris
in reply to Gradually_Adjusting • • •WhatSay
in reply to Cris • • •The last time I went to Reddit, I felt like everyone was trying to pick a fight, and would jump on me for any tiny reason.
No point being part of a community like that, the whole place is a dumpster fire, but if everyone is either trolling or turning on each other, it's much worse.
I hope as Lemmy gets more popular, it doesn't inherit those problems.
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Cris
in reply to WhatSay • • •I think as early members of this small online space we have to potential to cement a kinder culture that can influence even what this platform is like many years from now, with users that won't be here for a long time!
People tend to match energy with the people they're engaging with. When you show people kindness they intuitively respond the same way, and when that's the culture, I think it can profoundly shape people's social behaviors :)
And this space being as small as it is, we all have an outsized impact on that culture compared to something like reddit where any given user makes up such a teeeeny tiny fraction of the social interaction there.
We can all create that kind of culture that leads with kindness and prompts others to follow suit
magnetosphere
in reply to WhatSay • • •I used to use reddit constantly, and did so for years. That level of hostility took over so gradually that I didn’t even consciously notice. I used Lemmy for a few weeks before it really sunk in that nobody had jumped down my throat over a minor, irrelevant issue (like a careless punctuation or grammatical error).
People here tend to give each other the benefit of the doubt, which had become virtually unheard of on reddit. Even when people make replies I don’t agree with, they’re usually discussing the point rather than the way that point is presented.
I will never, ever go back.
Gormadt
in reply to WhatSay • • •I'd say there's also some corners of Lemmy that feel like the slightest provocation leads to an absolute dog pile of people being super angry looking for a fight.
That aspect blows but it's usually helped by making sure that the instance your account is on is federated (or specifically NOT federated) with specific other instances.
Though this place is so much more chill than Reddit it's fucking mindblowing
PastafARRian
in reply to WhatSay • • •Banana
in reply to Cris • • •like this
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Cris
in reply to Banana • • •Fuck yeah! I think that's the thing that makes the fediverse special :)
We all care enough about the online spaces we choose to inhabit that we leave the big platforms for something kinder. I think that's worth leaning into :)
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Banana
in reply to Cris • • •100%
Internet by the people, and for the people, truly.
yucandu
in reply to Banana • • •pebbles
in reply to Cris • • •Thanks for sharing! I'm not perfect at this, but I try to keep the vibes welcoming.
Lemmy's more intimate and understanding vibes are its best features IMO.
Cris
in reply to pebbles • • •Hell yeah 😊
And I absolutely agree. Lemmy straight up isn't as big as reddit, it's important that there be stuff to see, but I think one of the best things about the fediverse is that it feels so much more like healthy, actual social interaction, and I think that's a strength we ought to celebrate and actively facilitate :)
Cris
Unknown parent • • •like this
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Catoblepas
in reply to Cris • • •Shardikprime
in reply to Catoblepas • • •brucethemoose
in reply to Cris • • •Highly upvoted comments like "Elon Musk should commit suicide" or "X group of people are all mentally retarded" or even popular posts themselves make me feel uncomfortable.
It feels toxic like X. Or what Voat (an older Reddit clone, albeit not a federated one) turned into. So much of y'all upvoting posts like that, normalizing it, does not make me want to stick around, as that culture of hate will only get worse.
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Cris
in reply to brucethemoose • • •I can definitely understand that. I think in a lot of ways that problem is driven by how much of a political echo chamber lemmy is. Any time there's a narower range of beliefs I feel like you can see those beliefs getting more extreme, or expressed in more extreme and toxic ways.
I honestly don't really know how to improve it given the state of the world. It feels like the range of political beliefs keeps getting compressed into two groups and it makes it harder and harder to tolerate the beliefs of those further from yourself. And for valid reasons.
And the more justified the contempt for people of other political views gets the harder it gets to figure out how, culturally, we manage the justified anger that comes from how deeply broken everything is.
Elon musk is doing actual literal Nazi salutes and peoples anger about that is justified. And at the same time I'm not sure what way of acting on that anger (and acting on the problem) yields anything other than radializing people teetering on the edge of extremism.
I'm glad I don't really see actual Nazis on
... show moreI can definitely understand that. I think in a lot of ways that problem is driven by how much of a political echo chamber lemmy is. Any time there's a narower range of beliefs I feel like you can see those beliefs getting more extreme, or expressed in more extreme and toxic ways.
I honestly don't really know how to improve it given the state of the world. It feels like the range of political beliefs keeps getting compressed into two groups and it makes it harder and harder to tolerate the beliefs of those further from yourself. And for valid reasons.
And the more justified the contempt for people of other political views gets the harder it gets to figure out how, culturally, we manage the justified anger that comes from how deeply broken everything is.
Elon musk is doing actual literal Nazi salutes and peoples anger about that is justified. And at the same time I'm not sure what way of acting on that anger (and acting on the problem) yields anything other than radializing people teetering on the edge of extremism.
I'm glad I don't really see actual Nazis on lemmy. Its nice that there's less debate about the legitimacy of people's humanity.
And at the same time anger is deeply toxic to healthy interaction and drives behaviors that I genuinely don't think make the problems prompting people's anger any better.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts candidly, a lot of this thread is a love-fest and that's wonderful and puts a smile on my face, but it's at least as important to talk about the unhealthy aspects of the fediverse's culture
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brucethemoose
in reply to Cris • • •like this
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Shardikprime
in reply to brucethemoose • • •ElectroVagrant
in reply to brucethemoose • • •It may not do much depending on the mods/admins, but it never hurts to report and downvote comments or posts like that.
Emphasis on reporting there, as I think sometimes that stuff lingers around because people have made a habit of only downvoting and blocking those doing that regularly. I realize in your examples it's more likely bias or bigotry respectively, but still.
Report first, then downvote and block. Doing only the latter only makes your experience a little better, the former may help the community.
brucethemoose
in reply to ElectroVagrant • • •I do report them, but some communities seem to encourage it and leave it up.
I guess I can block the community, but it's still affecting the "Lemmy culture" at large...
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gandalf_der_12te
in reply to brucethemoose • • •gon [he]
in reply to Cris • • •pelespirit
in reply to Cris • • •Shardikprime
in reply to pelespirit • • •FundMECFS
in reply to Cris • • •I love this.
I think it’s important to say this doesn’t mean pretending you like or agree with something you don’t like or agree with.
But when you do see something you like, agree with, or appreciate, drop a compliment. Compliments make places better!
Cris
in reply to FundMECFS • • •Absolutely agree. Fake niceness is worthless and does nothing to make a space better.
We need sincerity.
Ogmios
in reply to Cris • • •like this
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Cris
in reply to Ogmios • • •In fairness reddit also has volunteer moderation, but you're absolutely right. I think that's why being intentional about what kind of culture we want is so important.
In a small space bad actors in leadership roles can do so much damage, and people intentionally facilitating healthy spaces can do so much good.
Corporate platforms have to deal with profit incentives and the way those warp what a space is about, but we shouldn't forget that our "new" fediverse model has its own problems well have to contend with.
The issue of greater variation in moderator/hosts was a big issue in the forum days to my understanding, and whether a space was healthy varried a lot from one to another. Big consolidated platforms homogenized things a lot but that came with its own issues. In a lot of ways it feels like the fediverse will have to address a lot of the unresolved issues of the old internet.
I can only hope we can learn by looking back at that history and build something better now
Ogmios
in reply to Cris • • •Cris
in reply to Ogmios • • •Thank you friend, I really appreciate that!
Take care! ❤️
Flax
in reply to Cris • • •Instructions unclear. Here is your personal info:
Name: Christopher "Chris" Alan Whitmore
Date of Birth: July 12, 1993
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Address: 4279 Elmridge Avenue, Boulder, CO 80301
Phone Number: (720) 555-3942
Email: cwhitmore93@gmail.com
Alternate Email: c.a.whitmore@outlook.com
Social Media:
Instagram: @chris.the.moose
IP Address: 73.164.202.147
ISP: Xfinity by Comcast
Router Name: WhitNet_5G
Router Password: MooseTracks2020!
Education:
Fairview High School, Boulder, CO (Graduated 2011)
University of Colorado Boulder – B.S. in Computer Science (Graduated 2015)
Employment:
2016–2019: IT Support Specialist at Techfinity Solutions
2019–Present: Systems Analyst at VantaByte Technologies, Boulder, CO
Known Devices:
MacBook Pro (M1, 2020) – Chris’s-MBP.local
iPhone 13 – Chrissy’s iPhone
iPad Air – MoosePad
Gaming Handles:
Steam: WhitMoose93
Discord: MooseMan#4491
Xbox Live: WhitByt
... show moreInstructions unclear. Here is your personal info:
Name: Christopher "Chris" Alan Whitmore
Date of Birth: July 12, 1993
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Address: 4279 Elmridge Avenue, Boulder, CO 80301
Phone Number: (720) 555-3942
Email: cwhitmore93@gmail.com
Alternate Email: c.a.whitmore@outlook.com
Social Media:
Instagram: @chris.the.moose
IP Address: 73.164.202.147
ISP: Xfinity by Comcast
Router Name: WhitNet_5G
Router Password: MooseTracks2020!
Education:
Fairview High School, Boulder, CO (Graduated 2011)
University of Colorado Boulder – B.S. in Computer Science (Graduated 2015)
Employment:
2016–2019: IT Support Specialist at Techfinity Solutions
2019–Present: Systems Analyst at VantaByte Technologies, Boulder, CO
Known Devices:
MacBook Pro (M1, 2020) – Chris’s-MBP.local
iPhone 13 – Chrissy’s iPhone
iPad Air – MoosePad
Gaming Handles:
Steam: WhitMoose93
Discord: MooseMan#4491
Xbox Live: WhitByte93
Observations:
Favorite coffee order: Iced caramel macchiato, oat milk
Has a rescue husky named “Niko”
Drives a black 2018 Subaru Outback with a "Hack the Planet" bumper sticker
Frequently shops at: Micro Center, REI, Whole Foods
Sure! Here's an expanded version of the fictional profile for Chris Whitmore, now including made-up family member names, relationships, and contact info — all entirely fictional and consistent with the character:
Family Members:
Name: Diane Marie Whitmore (née Larkin)
Age: 58
Occupation: High School English Teacher (Retired)
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Phone: (970) 555-1837
Email: dwhitmore.teacher@gmail.com
Name: Alan David Whitmore
Age: 61
Occupation: Mechanical Engineer at Apex Industrial (Semi-retired)
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Phone: (970) 555-1836
Email: alan.whitmore@apexengineers.com
Name: Emily Paige Whitmore
Age: 27
Occupation: Graduate Student, Psychology, University of Oregon
Location: Eugene, OR
Phone: (541) 555-2249
Email: em.whitmore.psych@gmail.com
Instagram: @empaige_
Name: Gerald “Jerry” Larkin
Age: 55
Occupation: Owner of Larkin’s Auto & Tire
Location: Longmont, CO
Phone: (303) 555-7993
Email: jlarkin.autoshop@gmail.com
I have successfully sent 132 death threats in total to you and your family members.
::: spoiler disclaimer
please mods this whole thing is a joke
:::
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Mirodir
in reply to Flax • • •You forgot to remove that part of the LLM response....
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Flax
in reply to Mirodir • • •Cris
in reply to Flax • • •Flax
in reply to Cris • • •Shardikprime
in reply to Flax • • •Flax
in reply to Shardikprime • • •jaxxed
in reply to Cris • • •Coelacanth
in reply to Cris • • •If this is the best thing you can do, then the second best thing is be active. We're still content starved around here. If you think of something to post, post it. If you can't post, try to comment. Especially on any post that has no comments. Doesn't matter how banal your comment is. Nothing scares away potential new users more than seeing post after post with 0 comments in their feed, and nothing disheartens posters more than that "0 comments" under their post.
People are generally scared or reluctant to do things when nobody else is doing them. They don't want to post in communities that don't already have recent posts. They don't want to comment on posts that have 0 comments. So whenever you can break that silence and be that first post or comment, try to do so.
Cris
in reply to Coelacanth • • •I definitely agree about the importance of breaking the silence, and engaging with folks who go out of their way to post.
As a culture we want that to be rewarding, it's something we all appreciate when folks do, so I think it's worth making sure posters can feel that it's appreciated. Make it known :)
Match!!
in reply to Cris • • •Filtered word: nsfw
make nsfw posts
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Cris
in reply to Match!! • • •Lol. Porn does make the internet go round
I already did that, but not on this account >.>
tourist
in reply to Cris • • •expose your fetishes
now
you have no choice
gandalf_der_12te
in reply to tourist • • •Cris
in reply to tourist • • •stroz
in reply to Cris • • •Multiple accounts are a must!
...or so I've been told
Yareckt
in reply to stroz • • •Well except if you do more than upvote the raunchy stuff.
TriflingToad
in reply to Yareckt • • •BagOfHeavyStones
in reply to Cris • • •I thought it was more 'up and down' :)
Can people see what groups you subscribe to on Lemmy?
pinball_wizard
in reply to BagOfHeavyStones • • •Other users can see which groups we comment on.
I haven't run an instance, but I imagine admins of our home instances can see what groups we are subscribed to.
gandalf_der_12te
in reply to Cris • • •redsand
in reply to Match!! • • •Cris
Unknown parent • • •FaceDeer
in reply to Cris • • •like this
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Cris
in reply to FaceDeer • • •Yeah, I think that was a big issue with the culture of platforms like Voat.
The fediverse doesn't have it as bad but it's still definitely a risk. And being decentralized makes it easier to dodge bans and whatnot.
You're right, and like I said elsewhere in this thread, big corporate platforms definitely have issues but that doesn't mean there aren't any unique challenges the fediverse will have to contend with.
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Rikudou_Sage
in reply to FaceDeer • • •FaceDeer
in reply to Rikudou_Sage • • •"Asshole" is a broad term. It includes racists, abrasive personalities, anger-management problems, and so forth. Ie, people who have a tendency to get banned from other places. It's not just trolls.
Being banned from Reddit is a unitary action. They can't get back into Reddit, they're just gone. Whereas in the Fediverse you can just go to a different instance and sign up afresh each time you get banned. This is part of the Fediverse's design. And so I am concerned that the Fediverse will accumulate the worst users.
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Psychadelligoat
in reply to FaceDeer • • •It takes all of 30s to spin up a new Reddit account, just has to have a new name that isn't already taken. If anything it's easier than on a lot of Lemmy instances
FaceDeer
in reply to Psychadelligoat • • •Rimu
in reply to FaceDeer • • •FaceDeer
in reply to Rimu • • •I don't consider it something to be "fixed." I like that the Fediverse is fully decentralized, with no authority over who gets "in" and who doesn't. Once you've got some kind of authority that can decide who's allowed on which instances, with some kind of global registry of individual users that can exclude you if the wrong people don't like you, we're basically back to being Reddit with some fancy extra steps.
Sure, it risks allowing assholes to continue getting new accounts. But we already have a Reddit, I'd rather try something new even if that comes with downsides.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Cris • • •Cris
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •kek
in reply to Cris • • •Great post.
To add to this, not resorting to calling others tankies or Russian bots when you have differing opinions, especially around politics.
Cris
in reply to kek • • •like this
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jimmy90
in reply to Cris • • •when you're dealing with fundamentalists or extremists things turn nasty very quickly because you're questioning their fantasy world
doesn't matter if they're good or bad faith, often they will just ban you
Draces
in reply to kek • • •like this
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gandalf_der_12te
in reply to Draces • • •PastafARRian
in reply to kek • • •nickwitha_k (he/him)
in reply to PastafARRian • • •Unfortunately not that rare of a POV to find. They just generally don't do the young account thing. Some are true believers. Others likely state actors. Don't see as many bots but the greater levels of transparency and lower active population probably makes it less worthwhile of an investment.
saltesc
in reply to kek • • •On Reddit, I once bragged about having universal healthcare and got called a Nazi and a communist at the same time.
This is what happens when Xbox kids that use the n-word grow up. They learn new "bad" words and throw them around out of context and contradictingly. They don't actually know what those things are, though, so it never makes sense.
I've been called a tankie here. I didn't know what it was and looked it up, just to discover it was the literal opposite of the things I was saying. I was very confused and just put it down to frustrated self-projection. At some point they had been called that, it upset them, so now they use it to upset people too but they still don't actually know what it is they're saying.
If I see someone defaulting to Russian bot or tankie, I've found another Xbox kid and it's in my best interests to just move on.
finitebanjo
in reply to kek • • •FluorideMind
in reply to Cris • • •like this
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Shardikprime
in reply to FluorideMind • • •Cris
in reply to FluorideMind • • •I knew that would happen, but you're not wrong 😅
As I've alluded to, there's a lot of justifiable anger about the state of the world, and you can see that hurt reflected in people's immediate response. The feelings driving that "conclusion jumping" valid and understandable, even if I don't think it's productive
There is no easy way to cope with fascism on your doorstep, or taking over your home and threatening to throw you out of it :(
Originally I listed all the extra examples/suggestions I put in my comment in the actual post itself, but I have a bad habit of making things way too long so I moved all the smaller more specific things to the comment. I think maybe it would have been more clear I'm not saying you should approve of Nazis had they still been in the post.
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OpenStars
in reply to Cris • • •Lemmy has a well-known reputation as being a "Nazi bar". e.g. as mentioned in this example post in r/RedditAlternatives complaining about toxicity on Lemmy, here is one of the comments therein (not from OP but as part of the overall conversation):
... show moreEven if the threats came from Hexbear or one of the lemmy.ml mods who are allowed to make death threats against users without any repercussions, "we" still expose "our" users to such content when we federate with those communities. i.e., for exactly the same reason that we defederate from instances that share CSAM,
Lemmy has a well-known reputation as being a "Nazi bar". e.g. as mentioned in this example post in r/RedditAlternatives complaining about toxicity on Lemmy, here is one of the comments therein (not from OP but as part of the overall conversation):
Even if the threats came from Hexbear or one of the lemmy.ml mods who are allowed to make death threats against users without any repercussions, "we" still expose "our" users to such content when we federate with those communities. i.e., for exactly the same reason that we defederate from instances that share CSAM, if we really, truly, genuinely don't like it when mods make death threats against users, then we need to put a stop to it - by defederating those instances that are known to do exactly that.
Otherwise we give our tacit approval, and moreover whenever we encourage people to join Lemmy instances, we willingly expose those people to this kind of content. Would you expose someone to CSAM, knowingly and without warning them first? Then why is it different when we can see the death threats, delivered by mods, who are not censured in any way, yet still encourage people to come here to Lemmy communities? Are we truly that desperate for content that we are so inconsiderate to them as to expose them to that without warning?
If you somehow have not heard of this yet and really don't know what I'm talking about, a lot of details are offered in Discuss.Online's (successful) Petition to defederate from hexbear.net, although that particular mod in question is from Lemmy.ml.
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Blaze (he/him)
in reply to OpenStars • • •The user you quoted said they would also try Piefed: old.reddit.com/r/RedditAlterna…
Isn't being federated with HB nowadays more the exception that the rule?
IIRC,
- LW
- SJW
- lemmy.ca
- sopuli.xyz
- Blahaj
- programming.dev
- feddit.org
Are defederated
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OpenStars
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •That's great!
I was just talking with an admin of Lemmy.zip who automatically puts up a community muting of HB for new users joining that instance, but not going so far as to defederate from it. So... that surely helps a little bit? Except when Hexbears brigade a community located on a different instance.
But the example I gave of a mod throwing out death threats to users involves lemmy.ml rather than Hexbear. Both instances are problematic in that regard, ML mostly for the admins and the mods that they choose to protect, while HB the subset of users that go outside of the instance to engage in trolling. In both, it is also entirely possible to have completely sane and normal conversations on the instance itself, which muddies the waters a bit, though the presence of sanity on occasion does not negate the presence of insanity on others.
And I was thinking of editing my comment but instead I'll put it here, your own posts such as
... show moreThat's great!
I was just talking with an admin of Lemmy.zip who automatically puts up a community muting of HB for new users joining that instance, but not going so far as to defederate from it. So... that surely helps a little bit? Except when Hexbears brigade a community located on a different instance.
But the example I gave of a mod throwing out death threats to users involves lemmy.ml rather than Hexbear. Both instances are problematic in that regard, ML mostly for the admins and the mods that they choose to protect, while HB the subset of users that go outside of the instance to engage in trolling. In both, it is also entirely possible to have completely sane and normal conversations on the instance itself, which muddies the waters a bit, though the presence of sanity on occasion does not negate the presence of insanity on others.
And I was thinking of editing my comment but instead I'll put it here, your own posts such as reddit.com/r/RedditAlternative… most definitely covers both the strong benefits as well as strong criticisms of using Lemmy, as well as solid solutions to the latter problems.
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Draces
in reply to OpenStars • • •OpenStars
in reply to Draces • • •I am currently at 100% of the people that I've told about Lemmy irl actively chiding me for having mentioned it to them. It doesn't help that (1) Lemmy.ml is the #1 Lemmy instance in a Google search, and (2) that instance uses Local rather than All when you don't have an account. If someone told me to consider joining Lemmy.ml, and that first couple of pages of content were all that I saw - especially just before any election in a Western nation - well then now I understand their reaction perfectly, as it is the correct one!?!?
Conversely, PieFed has a number of features that Lemmy lacks, one being the ability to actually block all users from an instance (rather than merely mute communities but not actual users on it - leaving them free to troll you in other communities, reply to your comments, trigger notifications, downvote your content, etc.). Since blocking lemmy.ml, I have had zero regrets, and enjoy interacting with Lemmy communities much better:-).
The real biggest problem that Lemmy has
... show moreI am currently at 100% of the people that I've told about Lemmy irl actively chiding me for having mentioned it to them. It doesn't help that (1) Lemmy.ml is the #1 Lemmy instance in a Google search, and (2) that instance uses Local rather than All when you don't have an account. If someone told me to consider joining Lemmy.ml, and that first couple of pages of content were all that I saw - especially just before any election in a Western nation - well then now I understand their reaction perfectly, as it is the correct one!?!?
Conversely, PieFed has a number of features that Lemmy lacks, one being the ability to actually block all users from an instance (rather than merely mute communities but not actual users on it - leaving them free to troll you in other communities, reply to your comments, trigger notifications, downvote your content, etc.). Since blocking lemmy.ml, I have had zero regrets, and enjoy interacting with Lemmy communities much better:-).
The real biggest problem that Lemmy has is lack of users and overall dearth of niche content - which ofc wraps back around to why would someone willing come here to be bullied just for being a mainstream centrist or even "leftist" by USA standards (Reddit is based in and its largest userbase is from the USA)?
Bullying is why Lemmy will never grow. That, and how the tools are somehow even more authoritian than Reddit - i.e. there is a modlog but no modmail, nor notification of a moderation event, instead the modlog simply says that a "mod" did something, if you go to the trouble to find out why nobody bothered to respond. And worse, on Lemmy.ml you'll find yourself banned from communities that you've never so much as heard of, citing having broken a rule that seems not written down anywhere. The lack of transparency is very reminiscent of the spez.
Fortunately, PieFed and Mbin offer non-Lemmy options to the Threadiverse.
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JasSmith
in reply to OpenStars • • •Vanilla_PuddinFudge
in reply to Cris • • •A lot of people dive in as if the entire fediverse has the same level of nerve as 4chan.
There are a lot of sensitive people here. The best thing I learned through my dealings with Mastodon is to be kind, and lurk before hitting that comment button.
The level of discord on the fediverse waxes and wanes depending where you are. There are conversations I'd never have here, that I'd gladly have elsewhere with no ill effects. The right words for the right group of people.
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GrumpyDuckling
in reply to Vanilla_PuddinFudge • • •RandomVideos
in reply to Cris • • •!lemmysilver
Lemmy is filled with too much hate, hopefully things can change
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LemmySilverBot
in reply to RandomVideos • • •Cris
in reply to RandomVideos • • •Aww thanks.
I didn't even know that was a thing. Neat.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Cris • • •LemmySilverBot
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •ProfDrDr
in reply to Cris • • •gandalf_der_12te
in reply to ProfDrDr • • •ProfDrDr
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •like this
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SwingingTheLamp
in reply to Cris • • •I have a couple of suggestions to add:
I was considering leaving the other site before the API fiasco because it felt like so many users approach engagement as rhetorical combat, that is, the point of discussion is to defeat the other person. Instead, think one of Covey's habits of highly-effective people: "Win-win, or no deal." Approach discussion on the Fediverse as a collaborative act, in which you're exchanging ideas with another person. Even if you disagree, you can both win by respectfully hearing out the other person. And if the other person won't collaborate? No deal! Just disengage.
Just like in intimate relationship, use "I" statements instead of "you" statements. Telling people who they are and what they believe is not only disrespectful, but probably wrong, often exaggerated or distorted for rhetorical combat purposes. People get angry when their identity gets poked at. One exception, of course, is when giving advice, like, stick to what you know, and share your thoughts and your reactions to a topic.
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Shardikprime
in reply to SwingingTheLamp • • •Lovable Sidekick
in reply to Cris • • •Shardikprime
in reply to Cris • • •gandalf_der_12te
in reply to Shardikprime • • •well i'd argue that setting teslas on fire is property damage, while slashing social security is murder or at the very least neglect of duties that led to deaths of many people.
it is clear that property damage is the minor damage of the two, according to contemporary interpretation of law.
about the guillotining:
same story. talkings about guillotining people is a reasonable threat when the alternative is to let the billionaires upend your roots and your lifes through horrible policy decisions. it's an act of self-defence at some point, i'd say.
though i agree with you at least partially that the US is different than say europe.
in the US, the mindset of "hard work" is more far-spread, as it the mindset that people who don't work, don't deserve to eat. that's just the US being the US i guess.
Cris
in reply to Shardikprime • • •Are you saying you think I want to set people's stuff on fire and guillotine people, or that you think responders in this thread do?
Shardikprime
in reply to Cris • • •Well do you?
Also I meant in general. Those types of posts and comments are highly upvoted in here.
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Cris
in reply to Shardikprime • • •I think the use of violence is complicated. I think people are too eager to let their anger dictate their behavior.
I also think that if you always turn the other cheek you're allowing cruelty, and you won't be the only one to suffer it at the hands of said cruelty.
I'm interested in what's effective. I care about the outcome. I think kindness often has the outcome I want.
I also think that if you lived through the Nazi regime, you'd be justified in shooting Hitler. You'd be justified in taking up arms to protect your loved ones from persecution, or execution at the hands of a group that needs victims to fuel its political machine.
I'm not inclined to believe my anger always dictates the best course of action. I'm also not inclined to believe that my desire to be friends with everyone will always be enough to build a world that isn't ruled by profound cruelty. I think those two ideas can co-exist.
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x4740N
in reply to Shardikprime • • •SoftestSapphic
in reply to Cris • • •Sorry but right wingers aren't welcome here.
If (Republicans/Tankies/Fascists) want any voice here they can go get fucked.
If they acted in good faith and were capable of processing reality they wouldn't identify as such.
We need to accept they have had decades to self reflect and learn how reality works, and instead they choose to erase minorities because they make right wingers uncomfortable.
No, I'm done being nice.
They can stop supporting fascist movements the moment they want to be included, but if they don't then they've backed themselves into that corner.
gandalf_der_12te
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •serious question but how do/could you formalize your rejection of right-wingers? what is it exactly that you take issue with?
i'm asking because i talk to a lot of people (also some who identify as "right-wingers") and i'd like to know what exactly are the issues that bother people, so i can forward it to them. it would help me bring up better arguments if i know what other people are thinking.
so, i've collected the following list of things to take issue with so far:
tell me if i forgot something.
JaggedRobotPubes
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •Shardikprime
in reply to JaggedRobotPubes • • •I mean
It's been happening for the 99.9% of human existence
FilthyHookerSpit
in reply to Shardikprime • • •Shardikprime
in reply to FilthyHookerSpit • • •FilthyHookerSpit
in reply to Shardikprime • • •Shardikprime
in reply to FilthyHookerSpit • • •gandalf_der_12te
in reply to Shardikprime • • •proof?
i'm asking because i suspect that might be a fallacy; i remember reading somewhere that 10k years ago the first wars happened, before then war practically didn't exist because war requires a minimum amount of organization and that just wasn't there before.
williams_482
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •There was organized violence deployed by groups of humans against other groups of humans long, long before anything we would recognize as warfare. Particularly brutal violence too, because the objective was not to conquer other people (something which only makes sense once agriculture is the dominant mode of sustinence), but to either drive off or exterminate a rival group so you can use their territory for yourself.
And we don't even need to talk about people here: we have records of chimpanzees fighting small scale wars of harassment and extermination against neighboring groups.
Pre-modern, pre-civilization, pre-aggriculture, pre-you-name-it human life was far more violent than what we deal with today.
queermunist she/her
in reply to williams_482 • • •We aren't chimpanzees. As persistence hunters, our kinds of territorial disputes would have been very different and early humans were likely very nomadic rather than settling into territories that fight. In times of scarcity we'd just move on to different lands.
Which, notably, is why humans spread over the entire planet. We aren't really built to be fighters.
Shardikprime
in reply to queermunist she/her • • •No one is saying we are chimps, but we share lots of mammalian behavior
For example, did you know chimpanzees engage on guerrilla wars, torture and , weirdly enough, prisoner exchanges?
But that's besides the point, I think they were just pointing out how standardized is that behavior in the animal kingdom, not excusing it
queermunist she/her
in reply to Shardikprime • • •But it's not "standardized" behavior, that's just the behavior of a single animal.
We have more in common with other migratory herd animals because we move so much. Elephants, for example.
gandalf_der_12te
in reply to queermunist she/her • • •Shardikprime
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •williams_482
in reply to queermunist she/her • • •Nomadic people don't just wander around aimlessly, and there are big differences in how desirable different territory is for nomadic hunter-gatherer humans. The principle is the same as with nomadic pastoralists: your group has a territory which can sustain them when hunted on/gathered from/grazed/etc over the course of the year, and your group will wander within that space in a deliberate pattern. If some other group decides to "just move on to" your group's territory, hunting the animals and foraging the plants that your group knows they are going to need to survive the year, that's an existential threat to you. And you can't "just move on" yourself without wandering into the territory of yet more groups whose territory borders yours, and who will react violently to your presence for the same reasons.
Given the choice between fleeing to who knows where and fighting who knows who for the privilege of moving, or staying right where you are and fighting for the land you know your group can survive on, you stay and fight.
Humans spread out across the ea
... show moreNomadic people don't just wander around aimlessly, and there are big differences in how desirable different territory is for nomadic hunter-gatherer humans. The principle is the same as with nomadic pastoralists: your group has a territory which can sustain them when hunted on/gathered from/grazed/etc over the course of the year, and your group will wander within that space in a deliberate pattern. If some other group decides to "just move on to" your group's territory, hunting the animals and foraging the plants that your group knows they are going to need to survive the year, that's an existential threat to you. And you can't "just move on" yourself without wandering into the territory of yet more groups whose territory borders yours, and who will react violently to your presence for the same reasons.
Given the choice between fleeing to who knows where and fighting who knows who for the privilege of moving, or staying right where you are and fighting for the land you know your group can survive on, you stay and fight.
Humans spread out across the earth as the losers of these conflicts (those who survived, anyway) fled until they stumbled on new-to-humans territory, often displacing or eradicating groups of more "primitive" hominids they found there. This process continues until just about everywhere which humans can reach and which can support human life has humans in it. But expanding populations, the occasional natural disaster, and normal human frustration that their territory sucks while their neighbors have it great (which was often true; again, not all land is the same to a nomadic hunter/gatherer) meant that these conflicts were constantly reignited.
SpicyColdFartChamber
in reply to Shardikprime • • •Shardikprime
in reply to SpicyColdFartChamber • • •SpicyColdFartChamber
in reply to Shardikprime • • •Basic history told me that?
Here, check under modern - en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medici…
field of study for diagnosing, treating and preventing disease
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Shardikprime
in reply to SpicyColdFartChamber • • •shaggyb
in reply to Shardikprime • • •Same with smallpox.
And we're capable of better now.
gandalf_der_12te
in reply to JaggedRobotPubes • • •oh yes i forgot about canada and greenland somehow, sorry
actually i meant in general, like apart from the current situation with trump.
SoftestSapphic
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •Right wing ideologies hinge on distracting people from their problems instead of solving them.
This arracts exclusively con men and dumb marks.
And the distractions they choose always end up being the erasure of minorities for some fucking reason.
FilthyHookerSpit
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •In America, right wingers support the republicans who have a verified track record of taking rights away, cheating elections and straight up lying. By refusing the see any other point of view, they reject open mindedness. They are unyielding in their beliefs and that is dangerous. It's whats led to the current affairs of the USA. Theyve been swindled for years. The thing I hate most of all is there core principle is hate. They hate minorities, immigrants, foreigners and gays. They always have some justification for it. "Gays are cross dressing and confusing my children. Gays are indecent. Minorities are abusing social programs. Jewish people are running criminal cabals. (Etc. etc.)
You'll have the "oh well I don't support THAT part of my political party but shrug nothing we can do 🙂" publicans but don't do anything or even CRITICIZE it. And those that try to refute these points either outright deny that its true or use whataboutism.
I will end this by saying I have right winger friends who are radicalizing away from me and I'm trying my hardes
... show moreIn America, right wingers support the republicans who have a verified track record of taking rights away, cheating elections and straight up lying. By refusing the see any other point of view, they reject open mindedness. They are unyielding in their beliefs and that is dangerous. It's whats led to the current affairs of the USA. Theyve been swindled for years. The thing I hate most of all is there core principle is hate. They hate minorities, immigrants, foreigners and gays. They always have some justification for it. "Gays are cross dressing and confusing my children. Gays are indecent. Minorities are abusing social programs. Jewish people are running criminal cabals. (Etc. etc.)
You'll have the "oh well I don't support THAT part of my political party but shrug nothing we can do 🙂" publicans but don't do anything or even CRITICIZE it. And those that try to refute these points either outright deny that its true or use whataboutism.
I will end this by saying I have right winger friends who are radicalizing away from me and I'm trying my hardest to show them that core beliefs of comraderie and compassion is far superior to the kool aid they're being forced fed by all major social media companies.
gandalf_der_12te
in reply to FilthyHookerSpit • • •you've put it very well, especially the
is something that perfectly describes my mother. no matter how bad the situation, she invariably comes back to "christianity will save us, we need to work harder, gays are abusing social programs, ..."
gandalf_der_12te
in reply to FilthyHookerSpit • • •actually let me think about it again:
IMO that somebody's always hateful is typically a sign of enormous psychological/emotional stress. so that tells me these people have a lot of problems, and probably don't know how to deal with the world. i wonder what education would do to them.
FilthyHookerSpit
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •OBJECTION!
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •The main thing is the bigotry and making marginalized people feel unwelcome and unsafe. Having trans people and Nazis existing in the same space isn't really tenable, in practice, most marginalized people would rather be in a space where their existence and basic rights aren't up for debate and where they won't receive slurs and threats of violence. So the question is, who would you rather have in your community, oppressor or oppressed?
Of course, this person applies this standard blindly by including "tankies" as "right-wingers." She's just abusing a valid argument by using it to dismiss any perspective she doesn't like, left or right, bigoted or accepting, bad faith or good faith, as "right-wing."
davel
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •Horseshoe theory is horseshit.
... show more- ‘Horseshoe theory’ is nonsense – the far right and far left have little in common
- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsesho…
- Funny thing about Hannah Arendt’s construction of “totalitarianism”: She came from a bourgeois family and so was unsurprisingly anti-communist, and she was funded & promoted by the CIA.
Imperialist Propaganda and the Ideology of the Western Left Intelligentsia: From Anticommunism and Identity Politics to Democratic Illusions and Fascism
Horseshoe theory is horseshit.
- ‘Horseshoe theory’ is nonsense – the far right and far left have little in common
- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsesho…
- Funny thing about Hannah Arendt’s construction of “totalitarianism”: She came from a bourgeois family and so was unsurprisingly anti-communist, and she was funded & promoted by the CIA.
Imperialist Propaganda and the Ideology of the Western Left Intelligentsia: From Anticommunism and Identity Politics to Democratic Illusions and Fascism
Imperialist Propaganda and the Ideology of the Western Left Intelligentsia: From Anticommunism and Identity
Gabriel Rockhill (Monthly Review)surewhynotlem
in reply to davel • • •davel
in reply to surewhynotlem • • •MAGACommunism - ProleWiki
ProleWikisurewhynotlem
in reply to davel • • •They support the alt-right by being overly idealistic and failing to partner with liberals and more moderate leftists to make progress.
Divide and be conquered.
queermunist she/her
in reply to surewhynotlem • • •davel
in reply to queermunist she/her • • •queermunist she/her
in reply to davel • • •davel
in reply to queermunist she/her • • •queermunist she/her
in reply to davel • • •SpicyColdFartChamber
in reply to surewhynotlem • • •Mate, the goal is to be idealistic. No one is perfect, but we want to strive for what's the best and hope we reach there some day.
surewhynotlem
in reply to SpicyColdFartChamber • • •SpicyColdFartChamber
in reply to surewhynotlem • • •Sure, harm reduction is good. That's what's been happening for the past century.
But you give the liberals an inch and they'll take a mile. They're only "liberals" as long as they're making money of others, as soon as something goes wrong they're first in line asking for government handouts. That's why the liberals will always prefer fascist over left wing idealists, because they're opportunists more than anything else. They'll backstab you and vote in fascists if they think they can make more money with them. That's exactly what's happening in the US.
We need new politics where hating on the LGBTQ+, immigrants, women, and putting money over the lives of few isn't considered a political leaning.
surewhynotlem
in reply to SpicyColdFartChamber • • •SpicyColdFartChamber
in reply to surewhynotlem • • •Yes, true that.
I'll even concede that you can find some common ground with them short term.
AwkwardBroccolli
in reply to davel • • •SoftestSapphic
in reply to davel • • •Thanks for showing up to be an example Davel
Davel is one of the ones who knows exactly what they are supporting, but choose to because they don't act in good faith.
Now kindly fuck off until next time Davel. :p
davel
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •SoftestSapphic
in reply to davel • • •You will never be accepted in this space no matter how many alt accounts you make to downvote people.
This isn't reddit you fascist, your tactics don't work here.
Shardikprime
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •davel
in reply to Shardikprime • • •Shardikprime
in reply to davel • • •davel
in reply to Shardikprime • • •Shardikprime
in reply to davel • • •davel
in reply to Shardikprime • • •Proof of what? The proof of her making baseless accusations are in her comments and in the modlog.
Or are you asking me to prove a negative? That the downvotes are not coming from my thousands of alt accounts?
Or did you still not get my joke, and you think that I’m genuinely accusing you of being a bad faith alt account?
BrainInABox
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •BrainInABox
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •Shardikprime
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •This is an example of what being nice is for the average Lemmy user
Jesus Christ you people can't even comment without going ballistic at each other over the slightest thing
davel
in reply to Shardikprime • • •I wouldn’t call this the “average” Lemmy user, but there is a minority of very loud users who make it seem that way at times.
If we want this to be a pleasant place, users need to report them, and mods & admins—who, I cannot stress enough, do this labor for free or at most peanuts—need to deal with them.
join-lemmy.org/docs/code_of_co…
Code of Conduct
join-lemmy.orgCadenza
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •Darkmoon_UK
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •If you're out there suggesting political stances can be adequately expressed along a single line, then you're not doing much better I'm afraid. Engage with the nuance, friend, it'll build understanding and be better for all of us.
'Left'/'Right' need to go, they're losing any meaning they once had - instead: "What's your policy on X"? "How do you feel about Y?" "Do you agree with Z's policy on A, B & C, and why?".
Curiosity, followed by grounded opinion, over tribalism.
Now excuse me while I go and try to practice what I just preached 😅
Nangijala
in reply to Darkmoon_UK • • •gandalf_der_12te
in reply to Darkmoon_UK • • •SoftestSapphic
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •TankovayaDiviziya
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •SoftestSapphic
in reply to TankovayaDiviziya • • •TankovayaDiviziya
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •SoftestSapphic
in reply to TankovayaDiviziya • • •It makes them feel validated, they're not capable of self reflection
From my experience it hurts more than helps to engage with fascists/right wingers because you give them a platform.
They should be contained on twitter and truth socal until they learn that it's not ok to kill minorities or they decide they want to get shot.
TankovayaDiviziya
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •You missed the part where I said it is for the readers, not the cultists. It is not about convincing these ideologues, it is to warn the readers why the ideas of these cultists are bad.
BrainInABox
in reply to TankovayaDiviziya • • •shaggyb
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •BrainInABox
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •Cris
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •That is a very specific interpretation of what I meant by this post.
To be perfectly honest, I really wasn't making the point you should approve of nazis. Just that maybe it's worth putting effort into being kind to one another...
For example, I constantly see leftists online biting eachother's heads off (including on lemmy) for having slightly different left-wing ideology. Its not like "approach people you disagree with with curiosity" means specifically actual neonazis, and approaching someone with curiosity doesn't mean telling people "your idea is correct and you're right for thinking it"
It means trying to understand it. You can dislike someone and still gain from better understanding their worldview. Even if you think it's harmful. Even if you think it's illogical. Even if you think they're wrong. Curiousity isn't tacit approval.
If you want to think about it cynically you can consider it creating allies and knowing your enemy.
All of that ignoring the fact that if you look around, this platform is almost excl
... show moreThat is a very specific interpretation of what I meant by this post.
To be perfectly honest, I really wasn't making the point you should approve of nazis. Just that maybe it's worth putting effort into being kind to one another...
For example, I constantly see leftists online biting eachother's heads off (including on lemmy) for having slightly different left-wing ideology. Its not like "approach people you disagree with with curiosity" means specifically actual neonazis, and approaching someone with curiosity doesn't mean telling people "your idea is correct and you're right for thinking it"
It means trying to understand it. You can dislike someone and still gain from better understanding their worldview. Even if you think it's harmful. Even if you think it's illogical. Even if you think they're wrong. Curiousity isn't tacit approval.
If you want to think about it cynically you can consider it creating allies and knowing your enemy.
All of that ignoring the fact that if you look around, this platform is almost exclusively left wing 😅 even if it includes folks left of center I don't agree with, like tankies and neoliberals (who yes, I know, are only left with respect of the US overton window. Thats where I'm from 🤷♂️)
I understand we disagree on certain things, that's okay, these are just my thoughts on the subject, and it's a profoundly important one, so I can appreciate why people would have different strongly held beliefs on it. Hope you have a good one :)
barsoap
in reply to Cris • • •Cris
in reply to barsoap • • •Anger and fear are blinding if you let them be, especially if they're intensely justified.
Unfortunately we live in times where they're very justified. I don't begrudge people for reacting in anger or fear, I'm doing my best not to do exactly the same :(
Take care my friend.
barsoap
in reply to Cris • • •As so often, the answer is found in scripture:
Answer. I said answer. Not solution. Too much aspirin and your blood thins out and you need to move to Transylvania.
Cris
in reply to barsoap • • •That took my brain a hot minute to process lol. Is that actually from something or did you just invent it on the spot? 😅
Unironically wisdom we should all learn from. I can't stop for other people but I can at least choose how I act, and whether I contribute to that pain suffering and discord.
barsoap
in reply to Cris • • •Principia Discordia - Page -6
www.principiadiscordia.comSoftestSapphic
in reply to Cris • • •Right wingers voted for the Republicans who are now attempting a fascist coup.
I'm done trying to make friends with people who want to erase me and my friends/family
Idk what to tell you
Cris
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •I can understand your anger, I'm in the same boat, but I really wasn't asking you to do that :( I was asking you to be kind to the people here. That you share this space with.
I wish I had left this list of examples in the original post where I had them at first
... show moreI moved them to a comment because I have a bad habit of being really long winded and I wanted people to actually read the whole post, but I think moving them and leaving "try to approach people you disagree with with curiosity rather than hostility" prompted a lot of folks to interpret what I was saying as "tell the Nazis who want to debate your humanity that all thei
I can understand your anger, I'm in the same boat, but I really wasn't asking you to do that :( I was asking you to be kind to the people here. That you share this space with.
I wish I had left this list of examples in the original post where I had them at first
I moved them to a comment because I have a bad habit of being really long winded and I wanted people to actually read the whole post, but I think moving them and leaving "try to approach people you disagree with with curiosity rather than hostility" prompted a lot of folks to interpret what I was saying as "tell the Nazis who want to debate your humanity that all their views are swell, actually"
What I meant is exactly what didn't happen in our interaction with eachother. I'm a queer leftist whose humanity is debated by the right. You don't completely agree with me and that's okay, but I'm not deserving of your hostility.
We may not see things exactly the same way but I care just as much about combating fascism as you do; everyone I love save for some of my family is a minority with a target on their back in the eyes of the current administration.
I wish I could have made it more clear what I meant. I've gotten lots of comments more or less insinuating that I'm encouraging we all complicit in the rise of fascism. And it's not a big percentage, but I'm still a human being who hears 12 people forcefully telling me that, and it doesn't feel great.
That's not what I'm advocating. I'm advocating that when you don't completely see eye to eye with someone, you ask them what they mean (and also lots of other things, like giving compliments and telling folks you appreciate their post, etc. etc. ect., but I feel like how to handle disagreement is the specific idea in question).
WE don't see exactly eye to eye. You and other commenters here don't see exactly eye to eye. And that's okay. Being willing to talk with them or me about what they think and why doesn't help the Nazis.
(Like I said I'm really long winded 🙃 sorry for the wall of text, I know it's not even the first one I've replied with to you specifically 😅)
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SoftestSapphic
in reply to Cris • • •It's specifically the "don't call people Russian trolls/bots"
There are a lot of Right wingers sympathetic to fascist countries right now, and it doesn't matter if it's a troll farm or a regular person pushing hateful ideology it's harmful and unacceptable either way.
Cris
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •Personally I don't see calling people Russian bots/trolls or accepting harmful behaviour as the only available options.
I don't think the former is at all productive or helps anything, and the latter is completely unacceptable. But those aren't our only options when we decide how we want to engage with people we disagree with
and again, fascists are not the only people with whom disagreements happen on lemmy. We're literally disagreeing right now, if you called me a Russian bot I think that would be silly and unproductive. That's literally my whole point. Not everyone you disagree with is arguing in bad faith 🤷♂️
SoftestSapphic
in reply to Cris • • •If we keep letting Nazis into the bar it becomes a Nazi bar
This is a good principle to learn as to not accidentally validate people with invalid worldviews.
en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Nazi_…
Nazi bar - Wiktionary, the free dictionary
WiktionaryCris
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •I'm very familiar with and agree with the Nazi bar metaphor, and said as much in one of my very first comments I made in the discussion under this post. At no point have I advocated letting Lemmy be a Nazi bar. And we don't exactly have many fascists here compared to other platforms, Lemmy is almost exclusively leftists.
Being kind to your fellow lemmites is not making this platform a Nazi safe haven, it just makes it a social space actually worth spending time in.
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davel
in reply to Cris • • •I think you’re wasting your breath at this point. This McCarthyite’s views aren’t going to move an inch, and virtually no one else is going to see this conversation, because this thread is buried under the fold and the post is a day old.
It doesn’t matter that first they came for the communists, or that no one has shed more blood fighting fascists than communists. “Authoritarian” communists are fascists, case closed.
statement and provocative poem attributed to pastor Martin Niemöller
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)like this
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AwkwardBroccolli
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •davel
in reply to AwkwardBroccolli • • •en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie#M… but actually joewrote.com/p/jfk-files-revea…
JFK Files Reveal CIA Role in the 1956 Hungarian Uprising
Joe Wrote (JoeWrote)AwkwardBroccolli
in reply to davel • • •gandalf_der_12te
in reply to davel • • •TankovayaDiviziya
in reply to davel • • •BrainInABox
in reply to AwkwardBroccolli • • •Muyal_Hix
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •"Tankies"
The irony with this is that Lemmy was founded by communists and it follows a lot of communist principles.
SoftestSapphic
in reply to Muyal_Hix • • •Tankies aren't communist.
Authoritarianism is right wing.
Shardikprime
in reply to SoftestSapphic • • •gandalf_der_12te
in reply to Cris • • •r0ertel
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •I can't speak to the quality outlook, but from what I understand about enshittification, it typically requires a self-serving entity like a corporation whose interests are not in alignment with its customers/consumers/userbase. In some of Mr. Doctrow's writings, he indicates that federating cans be a "circuit breaker" for enshittification.
In a well federated platform, when one node begins to act counter to its users, the users can easily move nodes/instances. This is one of the reasons why there needed to be a law to allow phone number portability. Email is similar, but only if you own your own domain. Look for Cory Doctrow's writings on BlueSky for more examples.
gandalf_der_12te
Unknown parent • • •like this
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davel
Unknown parent • • •Instance admins have pretty good information at their disposal to identify bots.
I have yet to see any instance admin say that there is any significant amount of bots, outside of the occasional spate of spamming. I only see such theories & accusasions come from non-admins, with no accompanying compelling evidence.
Aqarius
Unknown parent • • •gandalf_der_12te
in reply to Cris • • •like this
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Zink
in reply to Cris • • •As I get older I have found that making my world smaller and focusing on the things I genuinely care about (and not the things I’m “supposed to” care about as a “good” man/American/worker etc) results in me being happier and more satisfied with life.
Lemmy is my close little corner of the internet. I hope that the fediverse grows ands takes over for the good of other people, but if it stays in this niche for another decade I’ll be happy because I already love it for what it is.
Lemmchen
in reply to Cris • • •__反いじめ戦隊
in reply to Cris • • •It's extremely hard to be charitable online, when you have instances like these:
- map-wiki.com/index.php/List_of…
- wiki.yesmap.net/wiki/Pediverse
- fediverse.wiki/wiki/Poast
- truthsocial.com/
I'm sorry that I cannot “be kind” to the intolerant.
List of active instances of map fediverse - MAP Wiki
map-wiki.comCatoblepas
in reply to __反いじめ戦隊 • • •catloaf
in reply to Catoblepas • • •papertowels
in reply to Catoblepas • • •ArtificialHoldings
in reply to __反いじめ戦隊 • • •_____
in reply to ArtificialHoldings • • •WorldsDumbestMan
in reply to ArtificialHoldings • • •__反いじめ戦隊
in reply to ArtificialHoldings • • •Glad we agree then.
Defed all intolerance.
davel
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •blog.reddit -- what's new on reddit: Get ready for Global reddit Meetup Day, plus some stats about top reddit cities and languages.
web.archive.orggandalf_der_12te
in reply to davel • • •davel
in reply to gandalf_der_12te • • •US Air Force base near Valparaiso, Florida, United States
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)shaggyb
in reply to Cris • • •Unless you're a republican or other type of nazi. Then you can absolutely go all the way to hell.
Tolerance got us here.
Randomgal
in reply to shaggyb • • •like this
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shaggyb
in reply to Randomgal • • •Randomgal
in reply to shaggyb • • •like this
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shaggyb
in reply to Randomgal • • •dickalan
in reply to shaggyb • • •dickalan
in reply to Randomgal • • •tane
in reply to Randomgal • • •Casteyes
in reply to shaggyb • • •Generalizing is a logical fallacy. Not all Republicans are Nazis.
Some are rotten. Some are good people that just got duped.
It's not black and white.
shaggyb
in reply to Casteyes • • •Casteyes
in reply to shaggyb • • •shaggyb
in reply to Casteyes • • •Casteyes
in reply to shaggyb • • •Genius
in reply to Casteyes • • •Casteyes
in reply to Genius • • •Genius
in reply to Casteyes • • •untakenusername
in reply to Genius • • •FordBeeblebrox
in reply to shaggyb • • •Cris
in reply to FordBeeblebrox • • •Its easy to forget they live in a fundamentally different reality shaped by a buble of media. We all do, but conservative media kinda feels like an alternative universe.
When confronted with the world we live in they reject it as unrealistic because it differs too much from the facts they've accepted about the world.
My grandpa is a trump voter and I do my best to still talk to him. At an individual scale he's a kind, sincere man who has always been welcoming of my queerness and tries to understand me. It's very painful trying to discuss things with him even though it stays a kind interaction when I lead with kindness. It requires a lot of cognitive dissonance, but he lives in a fundamentally different reality than I do and I honestly don't know what I can do about it :(
That's the dangerous thing about fascism. Decent people buy into it. Become complicit or enable it. It wouldn't be a real threat if they didn't. But it engineers a reality for people to believe in, and lo and behold, they do. And cruelty ensues :(
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Cris
in reply to shaggyb • • •I can empathize with your anger but I do think it's easy to forget just how much propaganda can shape peoples world views and idea of reality. It's used so heavily because it works :(
Regardless, I'm not trying to start a fight, I can appreciate having no more tolerance for the increasing cruelty of the state of the world. Take care ❤️
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WorldsDumbestMan
in reply to Cris • • •Republican core values are anti-human. Right from there, we have nothing to talk about.
Get these lizard people off our planet!
CalipherJones
in reply to Cris • • •There's a story I heard recently that has really stuck with me. It happened in the Sobibor Extermination Camp during WW2. Basically the camp was structured so that captured Jews would be selected to be Kapos. A Kapo was a disciplinarian that kept the rest of the Jews in line, usually with a whip. A lot of the times the Kapo would repeat Nazi propaganda because the Nazi guards were watching too. The rest of the Jews could understand their predicament. But there was one Kapo named Berliner, nicknamed because he was born in Berlin. The rest of the Jews hated Berliner because he truly bought into the propaganda. Imagine, a Jew... in an extermination camp... talking about how Hitler was a misunderstood savior of the Jews right before he started beating his fellow Jews to keep them in line.
It's no surprise that Berliner's end comes in the form of a lynching by the rest of the Jews he was keeping in line.
Cris
in reply to CalipherJones • • •FordBeeblebrox
in reply to Casteyes • • •Casteyes
in reply to FordBeeblebrox • • •Strawberry
in reply to Casteyes • • •🙄
FordBeeblebrox
in reply to Casteyes • • •Before that was the tea party loons, before that was the airbrushed WMD photos, before that was McCarthyism…
When the other side is always fascist, the answer is always FUCK OFF NAZI PUNKS
(Maybe people wouldn’t hate the “other side” if it wasn’t straight up 4th reich on paper 🤷)
Casteyes
in reply to FordBeeblebrox • • •BrainInABox
in reply to Casteyes • • •BrainInABox
in reply to Casteyes • • •Alpha71
in reply to FordBeeblebrox • • •conditional_soup
in reply to shaggyb • • •Nazis can always join their own defederated server and have their little circle jerk, nothing is stopping them from going and joining exploding heads; they don't have a right to be part of federated fediverse and have their bullshit heard.
For that matter, nothing's stopping the people who disagree with me from creating their own nazi-friendly Lemmy instance. This is not the Nazi bar, and it's not going to be, so go ahead and open it yourselves. No need to let me know how it turns out, I'm pretty sure I've got a good guess.
untakenusername
in reply to conditional_soup • • •conditional_soup
in reply to untakenusername • • •untakenusername
in reply to conditional_soup • • •I think they've even published the source code somewhere for legal reasons, which is so wired to think about trump doing.
conditional_soup
in reply to untakenusername • • •SorryQuick
in reply to shaggyb • • •It’s not about tolerance imo, it’s about discussion. You’d be surprised to learn their reasoning if you actually listened to it. You don’t have to agree with it.
Both sides have this problem right now. Both only converse with their own. Why are republicans not changing? Well if their friends, family and everyone they talk to is a republican, they’ll never be exposed to different opinions.
Don’t forget that both sides can have valid policies depending on how you view the world. I’m not taking about trump and whatever you people are doing out there in the US, but in general, conservatism is the idea that people will manage their money, rather than the government.
Look at Quebec for example. A very socialist government. 2 years ago they invested a ton of money into one electric bus company. Well that company failed really bad and while they aren’t completely bankrupt, they aren’t far. It’s easy then to then see why conservatives would want to vote conservative. If their money had stayed in
... show moreIt’s not about tolerance imo, it’s about discussion. You’d be surprised to learn their reasoning if you actually listened to it. You don’t have to agree with it.
Both sides have this problem right now. Both only converse with their own. Why are republicans not changing? Well if their friends, family and everyone they talk to is a republican, they’ll never be exposed to different opinions.
Don’t forget that both sides can have valid policies depending on how you view the world. I’m not taking about trump and whatever you people are doing out there in the US, but in general, conservatism is the idea that people will manage their money, rather than the government.
Look at Quebec for example. A very socialist government. 2 years ago they invested a ton of money into one electric bus company. Well that company failed really bad and while they aren’t completely bankrupt, they aren’t far. It’s easy then to then see why conservatives would want to vote conservative. If their money had stayed in their pocket instead of going to the government, this wouldn’t have happened.
Same thing with health. The public health system is currently clogged up so a lot of people end up having to pay to go to the private sector to actually get cured in time. So conservatives believe this whole system is a huge waste of taxpayer money. Most conservatives I know aren’t agaisnt the government helping with that, but they’d rather the government just pay the invoice after you went to a private clinic, similar to insurance in the states, rather than try to control a system that clearly isn’t working.
shaggyb
in reply to SorryQuick • • •SorryQuick
in reply to shaggyb • • •That’s the problem. You see the other side in a way they themselves really aren’t. When people say the left is just as bad as the right, they don’t mean in opinions and policies, but in behavior, just like you’re doing. They both think themselves as having the moral high ground while the other side is complete and utter evil.
Honestly of all the conservatives I know, I don’t think a single one of them is remotely racist in any way. One in particular is agaisnt talking about lgbt stuff in schools but he also has a trans friend and thinks as long as they’re adults it’s fine. It’s not being evil, it’s having a difference in opinion.
shaggyb
in reply to SorryQuick • • •People said everything you're saying 30 years ago and used it to justify letting fascism grow unchecked. Now we're here and you are still afraid to be firm. You are why they're in power.
No more compromises. No more chances. No more conversations. People are being abducted. People are dying. There's no time left for patience.
They change NOW. Or they can fuck off.
SorryQuick
in reply to shaggyb • • •shaggyb
in reply to SorryQuick • • •SorryQuick
in reply to shaggyb • • •CalipherJones
in reply to SorryQuick • • •Turns out their reasoning a lot of the time is divinely ordained racism and sexism. Turns out thats been the reasoning behind a lot of humanity's choices.
untakenusername
in reply to shaggyb • • •And they're not Nazis, you cant just generalize so broadly about what should or shouldn't be tolerated.
Ofc if someone is being blatantly racist that shouldnt be tolerated, but economic discussion is totally fine
shaggyb
in reply to untakenusername • • •untakenusername
in reply to shaggyb • • •Like there's black republicans.
Is voting for them 'blatantly racist'?
If you overuse language it loses some of its meaning
shaggyb
in reply to untakenusername • • •untakenusername
in reply to shaggyb • • •I'm not saying that.
I'm saying that the idea that voting Republican is inherently racist, is wrong.
This really isn't that complicated.
shaggyb
in reply to untakenusername • • •untakenusername
in reply to shaggyb • • •/s
CalipherJones
in reply to untakenusername • • •untakenusername
in reply to CalipherJones • • •Nanook
in reply to Cris • • •Nanook
in reply to Nanook • • •davel
Unknown parent • • •AtHeartEngineer
in reply to Cris • • •Cris
Unknown parent • • •I could be wrong but to me it feels odd to think lemmy is big enough to be worth organizing psyops for.
Not to say it couldn't be an issue in the future, but it feels much more likely that people expressing pro Russia sentiment are just people who bought into that particular brand of propaganda.
Which like, to some extent all of our individual world views are shaped by the environment of propaganda we're exposed to. We're all products of our social conditioning, and ultimately that's exactly what propaganda is. Media designed to socially condition people to a certain set of beliefs. All we as individuals can do is be aware of it and be willing to look at our own beliefs critically.
But at the end of the day I think the folks praising Russia on lemmy are just people. People I personally think are misguided, but I don't think theyre generally acting in bad faith any more than the general population here.
davel
Unknown parent • • •icedcoffee
in reply to Cris • • •Love how the point of the post is “hey try to be nice” and everyone sounding off in the comments like “FUCK YOU AND FUCK THOSE SPECIFIC GUYS TOO”
Maybe more people should just post their reviews of vacuums here
AwesomeLowlander
in reply to icedcoffee • • •Fredthefishlord
in reply to icedcoffee • • •Casteyes
in reply to Fredthefishlord • • •Cris
in reply to icedcoffee • • •Its definitely fatiguing not gonna lie 🙃
Clearly I left it too ambiguous whether I meant Nazis specifically when I said you should try to approach people you disagree with with curiosity. That sounds super sarcastic but I don't mean it that way, I just don't have the energy to reword it
This problem probably could have been anticipated and avoided, it's just hard to always do so perfectly on the internet when speaking to a lot of people you don't know who will interpret what you say in any manner of different ways
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icedcoffee
in reply to Cris • • •celeste
in reply to Cris • • •There's a limit to how carefully you can word things to protect its meaning from people determined to read it in bad faith. I have it too - the desire to be long winded to preemptively protect myself from misunderstanding. But there's a risk that we'll turn everything we say into long blocks of soft useless mush. There's no precision precise enough to be safe.
We have to, I think, decide to write for people willing to reach for us when we hold out a hand. There are enough willing to try that any general misunderstandings can be clarified with conversations other people can read if they want to understand. If enough of us are willing to do this for each other, it might be possible to build spaces where people who slap that outheld hand away don't have to dictate conversation. And maybe we can both be less wordy.
ᴍᴜᴛɪʟᴀᴛɪᴏɴᴡᴀᴠᴇ
in reply to icedcoffee • • •icedcoffee
in reply to ᴍᴜᴛɪʟᴀᴛɪᴏɴᴡᴀᴠᴇ • • •ZeroOne
in reply to Cris • • •I got hated on for "using too much HTML".
Casteyes
in reply to ZeroOne • • •ZeroOne
in reply to Casteyes • • •Because it allowed you to get away with punching people in the face for saying things that you don't like.
I love the internet because of the myriad of innovations it has caused as a chsin-reaction & the fact that it peels of the makeup & rebeals society's true & ugly nature
ZeroOne
Unknown parent • • •The world is not America, buddy. Also don't make leftists & liberals seem like they're somehow above this crap either.
You both want to crawl up in peoples ass & tell them what to do
Nanook
Unknown parent • • •TabbsTheBat (they/them)
in reply to Cris • • •Hey this is a nice post, I wonder what the comments say :3 click
"Oh you think being kind is good? You're a fascist OP >:T. You can't make me vote republican"
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Casteyes
in reply to TabbsTheBat (they/them) • • •Cris
in reply to TabbsTheBat (they/them) • • •like this
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TabbsTheBat (they/them)
in reply to Cris • • •74 183.84
in reply to TabbsTheBat (they/them) • • •TabbsTheBat (they/them)
in reply to 74 183.84 • • •like this
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daddakamabb
in reply to TabbsTheBat (they/them) • • •TabbsTheBat (they/them)
in reply to daddakamabb • • •CalipherJones
in reply to daddakamabb • • •Cris
Unknown parent • • •Uh... Complimenting peoples art and having sincere discussions about what you think and why with folks on Lemmy grants conservatives power?
I get that lots of folks are frustrated with the constant liberal compromising but a) that's not "kindness" and b) that's not what I'm saying you do. This post isn't about telling people they should approve of Nazis. Its about building a healthy culture, here, in this online space, that facilitates positive interactions worth having.
I wish you and the others who commented along those lines could appreciate how exhausting this is as a person literally just saying we should be kind to the people we share this space with.
Look around. Basically every person here is left of center. I'm left of center. You don't have to be combative with me just because we don't exactly agree on everything.
Kindness is not a malicious conservative plot, nor is that what this post was about. And on that note, I clearly need to step away because in the same way
... show moreUh... Complimenting peoples art and having sincere discussions about what you think and why with folks on Lemmy grants conservatives power?
I get that lots of folks are frustrated with the constant liberal compromising but a) that's not "kindness" and b) that's not what I'm saying you do. This post isn't about telling people they should approve of Nazis. Its about building a healthy culture, here, in this online space, that facilitates positive interactions worth having.
I wish you and the others who commented along those lines could appreciate how exhausting this is as a person literally just saying we should be kind to the people we share this space with.
Look around. Basically every person here is left of center. I'm left of center. You don't have to be combative with me just because we don't exactly agree on everything.
Kindness is not a malicious conservative plot, nor is that what this post was about. And on that note, I clearly need to step away because in the same way that a lot of people's emotions are high, mine are too now and I'm loosing my ability to engage with people in the way that I want to.
Take care, and I hope you have a good night/day
Condiment2085
in reply to Cris • • •Cris
in reply to Condiment2085 • • •❤️
Have a good one!
Alpha71
in reply to Cris • • •OP simply asks people to be kind, People proceed to tear each other apart..
OP now knows how Jesus felt 🤣
WorldsDumbestMan
in reply to Alpha71 • • •Cris
in reply to Alpha71 • • •i gotta lead by example. I gotta lead by example. Lead By Example. IM GONNA LEAD BY EXAMPLE 🥲🙃
we're doin our best out here lol. But that's what it takes! There is no perfect, no "I literally never make mistakes" or "never let my frustration dictate shitty behaviour when compassion would yield the outcome I want"
You gotta decide you care more about what's effective than how good it feels to act on your anger, and then you gotta do your best :)
Shardikprime
in reply to Alpha71 • • •ArtificialHoldings
in reply to Cris • • •Completely right OP, and this is worth repeating as MUCH as possible. More than almost any UX or intake changes, Fediverse will only grow if their experience of the community is good.
Unfortunately, some people have never caught a vibe in their life and it shows lol. A single person with a bad attitude can completely tank your experience in a small community, versus a 20,000 person subreddit where usernames are basically indistinguishable.
Cris
in reply to ArtificialHoldings • • •Lmao 😂
And yeah, we actually have tangible evidence to support that idea Erin kissane has done a lot of incredible research work on how to effectively design the fediverse and support people in navigating it and one of the earlier things she did was interview people who left Mastodon after having bad experiences and collate that data-
A lot of people's reasons is that when they joined they were met with hostility. It plays a huge role in people's experiences here, and even just from a purely pragmatic perspective it's REALLY important
supersquirrel
in reply to Cris • • •I feel like this conversation is slipping into equating "makes fediverse grow faster" to "good".
Maybe most people need to have an initial experience where they get pushback for behaving the way they did somewhere else?
That is of course a dangerous rationalization to apply, as it can be used for any kind of shitty treatment of people, but there is also a similar danger to assuming that whatever will bring people in the fastest is inherently good.
Mallspice
in reply to Cris • • •MBech
in reply to Mallspice • • •Cris
in reply to Mallspice • • •The Internet can certainly lend itself to discord and hostility. I think that makes it all the more important we think carefully about what kind of spaces we want to build
Both in the sense that we should pursue kindness, but also in the sense that we should be designing our platforms to be healthy social spaces! Another commenter made some really good points about how important it is that we shape our platforms in a way that facilitates the kind of social spaces we want to he a part of :)
Mallspice
in reply to Cris • • •I disagree that kindness should be pursued foremost. Knowledge and truth should be pursued and kindness shouldn’t be allowed in charge because when it is you get shit like language policing which is insanely toxic and stupefying.
You want kindness? Go somewhere designed to be wholesome but please, for the love of honesty and free speech, don’t enforce that crap site wide.
Cris
in reply to Mallspice • • •I don't think kindness is at all mutually exclusive with knowledge and truth :)
To be clear I didn't mean "enforcing kindness" as in like forcing everyone to engage in a specific way or they're banned for not being nice enough
The big corporate platforms are, in a lot of ways, designed for hostility conflict and toxicity. Because they're designed for engagement, and anger drives engagement like nothing else possibly can. Facebook did internal studies and found their algorithm made people miserable, and then kept it that way because with respect profit, it was a great design.
I think we should be thoughtful about the mechanics of the platforms we're building and whether they incentivize people to lash out at eachother, or incentivizing healthy social spaces.
I'm not here in support of some dystopian "be positive or else" insincere niceness platform. But I do think it's worthwhile to shape the culture of the space we spend time in intentionally :) I wanna enjoy being here. I'm here in pursuit of worthwhile, sincere interactions with other human being
... show moreI don't think kindness is at all mutually exclusive with knowledge and truth :)
To be clear I didn't mean "enforcing kindness" as in like forcing everyone to engage in a specific way or they're banned for not being nice enough
The big corporate platforms are, in a lot of ways, designed for hostility conflict and toxicity. Because they're designed for engagement, and anger drives engagement like nothing else possibly can. Facebook did internal studies and found their algorithm made people miserable, and then kept it that way because with respect profit, it was a great design.
I think we should be thoughtful about the mechanics of the platforms we're building and whether they incentivize people to lash out at eachother, or incentivizing healthy social spaces.
I'm not here in support of some dystopian "be positive or else" insincere niceness platform. But I do think it's worthwhile to shape the culture of the space we spend time in intentionally :) I wanna enjoy being here. I'm here in pursuit of worthwhile, sincere interactions with other human beings, not shitty internet flamewars where nothing is gained and everyone walks away more bitter and angry
When you say you think knowledge and truth should be guiding principles, what do you mean? How would you see this platform designed? What way of engaging with eachother do you think is worth pursuing? :)
Mallspice
in reply to Cris • • •That’s a positive perspective.
I’ve seen a lot of that in leftists spaces lately, way more cautious of it now.
Engagement may not be great but it wins. Imo fediverse needs engagement to live long term but maybe doesn’t need toxicity for it, but addiction is inherently a little toxic.
Yes we should be thoughtful, not everyone is unfortunately.
How fucking dare you seek genuine humanity online.
lol
I think letting people say anything (with obvious bannable exceptions like abuse, threats of violence, death, rape, and cp) helps, that fact checking or being wrong should not be bannable, and that people should be given more ways to conflict with each other but in a way that spurns creative debate not pure hostility but that pure hostility has real value to show people whether or not they should change and shouldn’t be shut down outright. Like commenting ‘fuck you’ should be allowed anywhere but not ‘fuck you go kys’ because it’s destructive not constructive; like if people with unpopular opinions were
... show moreThat’s a positive perspective.
I’ve seen a lot of that in leftists spaces lately, way more cautious of it now.
Engagement may not be great but it wins. Imo fediverse needs engagement to live long term but maybe doesn’t need toxicity for it, but addiction is inherently a little toxic.
Yes we should be thoughtful, not everyone is unfortunately.
How fucking dare you seek genuine humanity online.
lol
I think letting people say anything (with obvious bannable exceptions like abuse, threats of violence, death, rape, and cp) helps, that fact checking or being wrong should not be bannable, and that people should be given more ways to conflict with each other but in a way that spurns creative debate not pure hostility but that pure hostility has real value to show people whether or not they should change and shouldn’t be shut down outright. Like commenting ‘fuck you’ should be allowed anywhere but not ‘fuck you go kys’ because it’s destructive not constructive; like if people with unpopular opinions weren’t allowed to silence dissent, they’d actually change their opinions and do better.
WaitThisIsntReddit
in reply to Cris • • •PixelPilgrim
in reply to WaitThisIsntReddit • • •Yareckt
in reply to PixelPilgrim • • •PixelPilgrim
in reply to Yareckt • • •Yareckt
in reply to PixelPilgrim • • •Cris
in reply to PixelPilgrim • • •I think it's worth being warry of making other peoples misery your own entertainment, that's a really good way to end up a deeply cruel person.
What you're describing sounds like Ben Shapiro to me. Scoring cheap points through argumentative tactic rather than actual merit of stance. Personally I see more value in legitimate exchange of ideas where involved parties can all walk away with a more well rounded perspective.
I see debate as an opportunity to learn from and teach others, not about dunking on people in pursuit of humiliating them
Just my two cents.
PixelPilgrim
in reply to Cris • • •Lol my argument automatically has no merit without you hearing any of it. That's like bigotry or something.
I guess Ben Shapiro argues with people that aren't media trained to make his stance look better, do you want me to say people Ben Shapiro argues make some awesome argument all the time without exception?
I'll teach you that it's not on me to make your arguments, get your evidence. I just put it on myself to communicate my arguments and poke holes in other people's arguments
Cris
in reply to PixelPilgrim • • •I did read both of your comments in full and think about them, but if you have more specific thoughts on why you hold the perspective you do I'd be open to hearing them :) (full disclosure though, it might take me a bit to get back to you- with how much I've engaged with this thread I'm starting to kinda run out of social energy 😅)
Its a little hard to follow exactly what you mean towards the end, I think there are a couple typos, but no. I just personally see a distinction between productive conversation and making a game of humiliating people by talking circles around them regardless of the merits of their arguments.
I can't know that you exactly meant the latter, but it's kind of a spectrum and when you said "I like pissing people
... show moreI did read both of your comments in full and think about them, but if you have more specific thoughts on why you hold the perspective you do I'd be open to hearing them :) (full disclosure though, it might take me a bit to get back to you- with how much I've engaged with this thread I'm starting to kinda run out of social energy 😅)
Its a little hard to follow exactly what you mean towards the end, I think there are a couple typos, but no. I just personally see a distinction between productive conversation and making a game of humiliating people by talking circles around them regardless of the merits of their arguments.
I can't know that you exactly meant the latter, but it's kind of a spectrum and when you said "I like pissing people off then making much of them for not being able to defend their position" it did sound like you were advocating the idea that it's good or productive to take joy in making people feel foolish for their inability to argue as well as you. I think there's a big difference between the merits of a stance and someone's ability to argue them. That's why I expressed I disagreed. And that's why I made the connection to Ben shapio, he's really good at arguing, and makes sport of trying to make people look bad when they make the sort of arguments I personally agree with.
I think I see argument as much less of a zero sum game than you do. I don't wanna score points, I wanna learn about what people think and teach them why I think differently.
You're not wrong to point out flaws in peoples arguments, or to expect them to make their case for themselves, but that's not the same thing as treating it like a game to win, and considering yourself victorious once their day is worse for having interacted with you. I think the former is appropriate and healthy, I think the latter is destructive and doesn't actually accomplish anything 🤷♂️
PixelPilgrim
in reply to Cris • • •Cris
in reply to WaitThisIsntReddit • • •I think there's a fine line between banter and trying to humiliate folks, and sometimes it's awfully hard to find.
I don't really mind banter or jokes, but the idea that it's humor is often what people hide behind when they're being cruel and want to excuse their behavior.
If you can find that line and still be respectful of the human beings you're engaging with, I don't think there's anything at all wrong with that :) enjoy your banter!
PixelPilgrim
in reply to Cris • • •I generally say bullet points are good ideals, but there's a much bigger issue with mental health.
There are certain people in lemmy that need to learn what "you have no enemies" and "I'm gonna do my own thing" means. It's fine people are different live on earth is very diverse
Cris
in reply to PixelPilgrim • • •I agree, and like with many of the culture issues we have challenges with, I think the extent to which Lemmy is a echo chamber or political and philosophical monoculture really sets us up to struggle with those kinds of problems
You're not wrong though. Even I sometimes find myself falling into it, it's hard. And a lot of people believe following the behavior their anger drives them to isn't just okay, it's actually a good think and combats the problems they're angry about. Personally I think that usually couldn't be any further from the truth
Regardless, I hope you have a good one :)
PixelPilgrim
in reply to Cris • • •Cris
in reply to PixelPilgrim • • •Oh, I hadn't realized it was the same username! I've replied to like a billion people on this thread, the only usernames I really absorbed are the couple of folks I recognized from prior interactions
But yes, I'd say I agree very much with the idea you expressed in this comment chain and generally disagree with what you said in the other comment exchange. And that's okay! We can share some amount of common ground even if we don't agree on everything :)
Sips'
in reply to Cris • • •Kinda wish we could pin this post to the top of everyones feed for a while! 😅 Lemmy has been a great place so far but think we can do even better. Especially with the points you bring up.
Thanks for sharing 😊
Cris
in reply to Sips' • • •mke
in reply to Cris • • •Most people know this in some capacity, but it's not talked about enough: the shape of the platform massively shapes its culture. Every mechanism, intentional feature or not, is a factor in resulting user behavior and should be accounted for.
Reddit Karma was (shitty) reputation from the start, but Slashdot user IDs became one despite being mere sequential identifiers; negative user feedback such as downvotes can be harmful to communities (yet, users without an outlet may lash out in other ways e.g. reports); even how the platform communicates with users influences them; and so on.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be nice and incentivize others to do the sa
... show moreMost people know this in some capacity, but it's not talked about enough: the shape of the platform massively shapes its culture. Every mechanism, intentional feature or not, is a factor in resulting user behavior and should be accounted for.
Reddit Karma was (shitty) reputation from the start, but Slashdot user IDs became one despite being mere sequential identifiers; negative user feedback such as downvotes can be harmful to communities (yet, users without an outlet may lash out in other ways e.g. reports); even how the platform communicates with users influences them; and so on.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be nice and incentivize others to do the same, but unless the system naturally leads to the desired behavior, you'll have a bad time in the long term because building culture by interactions doesn't scale. By the time you realize there's a shift, it's too late; interactions will compound and affect how the average user acts faster than you can try to course-correct.
I wish lemmy was more experimental, because by building a clone of reddit, we've copied too many of its faults. We've already got gatherings to complain about mods, and the one time devs considered changing a core component, discussion was killed by an onslaught of users. Problems with the current setup that were brought up then will likely never see that amount of people thinking about how to solve them.
Contrast with Mastodon, which gets crap for not being a faithful copy of twitter, but their reasoning for not including quote-reblogs is understandable. They're now putting a lot of thought into how to add them safely. Not ignoring functionality users want, but also not ignoring how it will affect culture, that's compromise.
I'd like it if we could talk more about how our platforms work and, particularly, how they affect us, because that's a big way we can build better platforms, right up there with being nice.
Reddit's Downvote Dilemma: How Negative Feedback Shapes Community Engagement
Ijaz Malik (Our Mental Health)Angry_Autist (he/him)
in reply to mke • • •People were right to be angry about removing voting visibility.
The surest sign a community is toxic is voting patterns and removing our access to that removes our ability to combat the continuing enshittification of lemmy.
And there are many, many mods that need to be complained about.
Though you are right that no-nuance upvote/downvote is a really shitty metric
Cris
in reply to mke • • •I 1000% agree, the design of the space we inhabit shapes our behaviour.
I don't think collectively we can stop at intentionally being kind, but forming a coherent design vision to effectively shape human behaviour and social outcomes as a community project is HARD and legitimately takes an actual vision and understanding of incredibly advanced design cobcepts very few have the experience to have any realy expertise in. Still important, but I think this is an easy way everyone can contribute. Similar to making donations.
They're not the only things we need, but they're a small thing that becomes valuable when the culture decides we collectively prioritize them.
You couldn't possibly be more right though. Erin kissane has talked a fair bit about that idea in her research. If there are specific design features of Lemmy you wish were different I'd be curious to see discussion posts on this comm about how we can design a space that facilitates more compassionate interactions and healthier community! (Or just to hear about them from you if they're not
... show moreI 1000% agree, the design of the space we inhabit shapes our behaviour.
I don't think collectively we can stop at intentionally being kind, but forming a coherent design vision to effectively shape human behaviour and social outcomes as a community project is HARD and legitimately takes an actual vision and understanding of incredibly advanced design cobcepts very few have the experience to have any realy expertise in. Still important, but I think this is an easy way everyone can contribute. Similar to making donations.
They're not the only things we need, but they're a small thing that becomes valuable when the culture decides we collectively prioritize them.
You couldn't possibly be more right though. Erin kissane has talked a fair bit about that idea in her research. If there are specific design features of Lemmy you wish were different I'd be curious to see discussion posts on this comm about how we can design a space that facilitates more compassionate interactions and healthier community! (Or just to hear about them from you if they're not fully formed enough yet to post about :)
supersquirrel
in reply to Cris • • •Yeah if you want to get a PHD in this stuff, but you could also just become friends with a bunch of artists and ask them how they like this place, and notice how they talk about it feeling free and vibrant or dead and dying.
By the way, we are already doing this work and it barely feels like we are... because the work is a basic product of the world views, shared values and shared explicit ideological and practical goals of this community space.
You don't need this crazy apparatus to make this place a vibrant garden, having expert gardeners is definitely helpful, but it is about getting out of the way of kindness and empowering kindness, not coming up with some grand unified strategy to mani
... show moreYeah if you want to get a PHD in this stuff, but you could also just become friends with a bunch of artists and ask them how they like this place, and notice how they talk about it feeling free and vibrant or dead and dying.
By the way, we are already doing this work and it barely feels like we are... because the work is a basic product of the world views, shared values and shared explicit ideological and practical goals of this community space.
You don't need this crazy apparatus to make this place a vibrant garden, having expert gardeners is definitely helpful, but it is about getting out of the way of kindness and empowering kindness, not coming up with some grand unified strategy to manipulate people into being better humans.
Basic things like the way a lot of Mastodon instances don't by default prioritize showing the precise number of likes a post has add up to a significant difference in how healthy a social network is for the people in it. You can encourage people to obsess over unhealthy aspects to communication by making the numbers front and center, encouraging people to associate popularity and self worth with those numbers, and creating situations where everybody has to become an expert in gaming getting the best numbers possible even in the realm of their personal life (or so we are made to feel).... or you can de-emphasize the numbers and make it a thing people can check if they want to, but the UI and general philosophy of the place doesn't really encourage or worship that kind of thinking in the first place so why bother?
The reason it feels weird not to have numbers quantifying how successful a social media post/piece of content is that the people who designed these systems were programmers not artists, they didn't understand the incredible farce that attaching the atoms of communication in a community with direct quantification is... would immediately lead to unhealthy environments, they just saw it as the easiest way to make money and identify who the valuable influencers to pay to do ads are.
CalipherJones
in reply to mke • • •supersquirrel
in reply to CalipherJones • • •The point of this system isn't to centralize control under moderators, this isn't some bug to iron out or a duct-tape solution that is meant to be temporary until we can figure out how not to centralize power.
The point of this system is to encourage communities to create an explicit shared set of values, those values have to be attached to a specific community and thus that community will then have specific people tasked with dealing with grey areas and problems that occur when people don't adhere to the values.
People need to stop focusing on the moderators and focus on what it means to be explicit with a positive step forward about proclaiming the kinds of values you want to hold in a shared community space. THAT is what gives this place such immense power to shape the world.
ArtificialHoldings
in reply to supersquirrel • • •lautan
in reply to Cris • • •ᴍᴜᴛɪʟᴀᴛɪᴏɴᴡᴀᴠᴇ
in reply to lautan • • •Angry_Autist (he/him)
in reply to lautan • • •I disagree, if political discourse can't survive public debate, then it isn't a very good political ideology.
We have been artificially hampered on other platforms by having to be nice to the nazis, we don't have to do that here and I fully welcome such debate because none of their abhorrent ideologies hold up under scrutiny
As for left leaning political debate, we have ALWAYS argued with each other. That is one of our greatest strengths that we just don't all into line with everything the top says. Also one of our greatest weaknesses.
But to stifle that artificially will just force it to bleed into other discussions.
I say up with political discourse and let the marketplace of ideas be conceptually free of bias and the results will be that humanity in general considers nazis pretty bad people
JasSmith
in reply to Angry_Autist (he/him) • • •They made it clear they're talking about spaces and topics not about politics. People who feel entitled and compelled to make everything a political culture war are insufferable. Made worse when they call everyone who disagrees with them a Nazi. The word has lost all meaning now.
Angry_Autist (he/him)
in reply to JasSmith • • •I'm sorry the world is so scary you have to segment parts of it away from your daily life, I don't have that weakness
Nearly everything has a political facet because politics is at the core of how humanity can even live in this modern way.
Not talking about politics at the dinner table is how we got here and I will not sit by idly while people like you perpetuate that disservice
RedPostItNote
in reply to Angry_Autist (he/him) • • •THCDenton
in reply to Angry_Autist (he/him) • • •untakenusername
in reply to Angry_Autist (he/him) • • •Angry_Autist (he/him)
in reply to untakenusername • • •untakenusername
in reply to Angry_Autist (he/him) • • •Yeah some parts of the world are scary and segmenting parts of it away isn't a weakness.
It's just common sense.
(edited to change whats quoted)
Angry_Autist (he/him)
in reply to untakenusername • • •What has that have to do with not wanting to watch a russian info asset?
OH you thought it was because I didn't want to see people getting shot?
Son, I was one of the early distributors of 1 man 1 jar
EySkibidiBabBab
in reply to Angry_Autist (he/him) • • •Yes -- you should definetely segment away politics from some parts of your life. You should not fully disengage with it, but take a breather every now and then. Go for a walk, talk with some people about a hobby you enjoy despite your differences or just take a prolonged toilet break.
I find it infinitely exhausting that it seems like everything online these days evolves into a political discussion. I recently saw someone asking about how they can make more time for reading in their day -- someone mentioned that they read in the morning when working from home while having their morning coffee. And someone barged in and were like "Oh MuSt Be NiCE to HAve ThE TiMe FOR ThaT! No, soMe of Us Have To CommUTE 2 HouRS each way DaiLY BeCAuSe Of LAte StAGe CaPItalisM". And then it evolved into some revolutionary eat the rich stuff from there -- which i for the most part can follow.
But it was a post about asking how to make more time for reading... How did it end up with revolution? I personally believe the main problem with injecting politics into everything is that it becomes
... show moreYes -- you should definetely segment away politics from some parts of your life. You should not fully disengage with it, but take a breather every now and then. Go for a walk, talk with some people about a hobby you enjoy despite your differences or just take a prolonged toilet break.
I find it infinitely exhausting that it seems like everything online these days evolves into a political discussion. I recently saw someone asking about how they can make more time for reading in their day -- someone mentioned that they read in the morning when working from home while having their morning coffee. And someone barged in and were like "Oh MuSt Be NiCE to HAve ThE TiMe FOR ThaT! No, soMe of Us Have To CommUTE 2 HouRS each way DaiLY BeCAuSe Of LAte StAGe CaPItalisM". And then it evolved into some revolutionary eat the rich stuff from there -- which i for the most part can follow.
But it was a post about asking how to make more time for reading... How did it end up with revolution? I personally believe the main problem with injecting politics into everything is that it becomes predictable and bland. Just like my example above. It's an interesting discussion for sure! But perhaps don't force it down everyone's throat all the time. It's like that friend who has a hobby that they just wont stop talking about all. the. fucking. time. It dissolves the seriousness of the discussion and makes other people tired of it.
Again, i'm not saying abstain or fully disengage from politics. But for gods sake, let people take a break every now and then if they're able to do so, and for five minutes just focus on something joyful eventho everything is going to shit at the moment.
Angry_Autist (he/him)
in reply to EySkibidiBabBab • • •Strawman from 'we shouldn't segment away politics' to 'we must inject politics positively everywhere.
Intellectual dishonesty at its finest.
What a great reason to block feddit.dk
EySkibidiBabBab
in reply to Angry_Autist (he/him) • • •Gibibit
in reply to lautan • • •CalipherJones
in reply to lautan • • •Druid
in reply to Cris • • •Cris
in reply to Druid • • •D'aww, thanks. Always lovely to see your username and pfp around :) take care!
I had something I was thinking about posting for the soulslke comm, I gotta remember what it was!
Druid
in reply to Cris • • •That's so nice of you - likewise :)
Ooh, looking forward to it! 👀
AidsKitty
in reply to Cris • • •Cris
in reply to AidsKitty • • •I think a lot of folks immediately thought of something very specific when they saw my post, I really meant to be kind to the people you share this space with :). I feel like maybe it would have been best if I had left all these examples in my original post itself instead of moving them to the comments
... show moreI moved them cause I wanted to keep my post succinct so folks would actually read it (I have a bad habit of being REALLY long winded lol. Can you tell? 😅) But I think they really exemplify what I was trying to get across, and leaving only the more challenging philosophical ideas like "approach people you disagree with with curiosity rather tha
I think a lot of folks immediately thought of something very specific when they saw my post, I really meant to be kind to the people you share this space with :). I feel like maybe it would have been best if I had left all these examples in my original post itself instead of moving them to the comments
I moved them cause I wanted to keep my post succinct so folks would actually read it (I have a bad habit of being REALLY long winded lol. Can you tell? 😅) But I think they really exemplify what I was trying to get across, and leaving only the more challenging philosophical ideas like "approach people you disagree with with curiosity rather than hostility" I think kinda prompted people to misunderstand what exactly I meant.
I can absolutely empathize with it getting harder to find common ground and build bridges. There's no easy way to do that when more and more people think your humanity is up for debate. But I still think in this little corner of the internet, it's worth trying our hardest to uplift the folks we sit shoulder to shoulder with :)
pHr34kY
in reply to Cris • • •trillnsfw
in reply to pHr34kY • • •Cris
in reply to pHr34kY • • •THCDenton
in reply to pHr34kY • • •Angry_Autist (he/him)
in reply to Cris • • •I disagree, yes being kind is very important but even more important is people engaging and upvoting comments.
Reddit was great because of what happened in the comment section, not the headliners, and I see very little voting engagement even in active posts.
Remember, it's free to do and it encourages others to engage as well. But yea be kind too
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cyberblob
in reply to Angry_Autist (he/him) • • •Angry_Autist (he/him)
in reply to cyberblob • • •supersquirrel
in reply to Angry_Autist (he/him) • • •kreynen
in reply to Angry_Autist (he/him) • • •@Angry_Autist@lemmy.world
@Cris_Color@lemmy.world
It is only "free" if you choose not to pay. Unlike commercial social that's free for you to use BECAUSE you are the product being sold, federated social is only free to you because someone else is paying.
I completely agree that mass adoption requires well primed communities which requires early adopters to put more effort into engaging.
I would also add that clicking on anything linked helps too.. Many news outlets are data driven. If you want them to invest more with federated social, click the links so the engagement shows up in their analytics.
Wiz
in reply to kreynen • • •Right. The Fediverse is the PBS of the social media.
"It's made possible by people like you." Is it worth a few dollars a month? Yes!
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kreynen likes this.
Cris
in reply to Wiz • • •like this
kreynen likes this.
Cris
in reply to kreynen • • •I agree that folks should chip in!
Voting specifically doesn't really have meaningful server costs, I think that's really what they were talking about, but your point is very fair :)
This platform exists only if we decide it's worth existing and give it support :)
Yareckt
in reply to davel • • •JasSmith
Unknown parent • • •The “tolerance paradox” is a handy tool with which to justify violence by those on both sides. If I’m just fighting intolerance, then my actions are justified. It’s a common rally cry used by authoritarians to stamp out diversity and democracy. To really hammer the point home, the Nazis were the first to employ it. By blaming their issues on the “intolerance” of foreign states, they justified a global war. It is obviously the inspiration for Popper’s 1945 work, The Open Society and Its Enemies. Russia is currently using this fallacy to justify the war in Ukraine, claiming that the West is “intolerant” of Russia, and they need to defend themselves against this intolerance.
Here is a full quote from Popper on the subject if anyone is interested.
... show moreThe “tolerance paradox” is a handy tool with which to justify violence by those on both sides. If I’m just fighting intolerance, then my actions are justified. It’s a common rally cry used by authoritarians to stamp out diversity and democracy. To really hammer the point home, the Nazis were the first to employ it. By blaming their issues on the “intolerance” of foreign states, they justified a global war. It is obviously the inspiration for Popper’s 1945 work, The Open Society and Its Enemies. Russia is currently using this fallacy to justify the war in Ukraine, claiming that the West is “intolerant” of Russia, and they need to defend themselves against this intolerance.
Here is a full quote from Popper on the subject if anyone is interested.
Popper’s argument is laid bare here. Tolerate up to the point of violence. That is, if one physically attacks us, we no longer have the burden of tolerance. Popper is commonly misquoted and intentionally misused to justify violence, suppresion, and censorship against disagreement, and that is clearly not his argument.
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Fitik likes this.
cyberblob
in reply to Cris • • •I totally agree with your message.
These days everyone who is not ultra-left easily gets labelled as Nazi, similarly everyone who brings up any rather left argument will be called a woke snowflake.
Thus, any dialog is immediately shut down. Listen, understand, exchange arguments.
That is what unites everyone who believes in liberal values.
Cris
in reply to cyberblob • • •It's a rough time, not helped by how profoundly important politics is right now. And the more broken the state of things get, the more divided we become, and the harder it gets to look others in the eyes and be okay with what they're supporting :(
I don't think there's any easy answer. But I do think it helps to confront people who are doing harm, and open sincere dialogue with people you disagree with (when theyre willing to engage in good faith. No point otherwise.) And try to understand how they got where they are, and share why you don't agree with them
CalipherJones
in reply to cyberblob • • •The last listening and understanding I had with a Trumper was over whether Haitians were eating cats and dogs in Ohio. They're not serious and I'm not going to pretend they are.
"Ultra-left" in America has boiled down to not hating minorities.
supersquirrel
in reply to cyberblob • • •What the hell are you smoking? Have you turned on the news? Paid attention to politicians? Check in with how exactly companies chose to sustain and expand DEI (A <- where did the accessibility go we wonder?) after Trump and DOGE attacked it?
You are so wrong, if the universe repeated at the edge of itself like in the old Asteroids arcade game, you would have long ago crossed into Very Right by slamming straight past the most extreme extent of Completely Wrong.
untakenusername
in reply to supersquirrel • • •cyberblob
in reply to supersquirrel • • •Wow, keep your emotions at bay, will you?
Not even sure what to respond, except for what I wrote previously: A lot of discourse is broken by calling people whatever and not listening.
You are somewhat setting an example of what I am talking about, since I am not even disagreeing with the opinion that I am infering from your writing.
kreynen
in reply to Cris • • •@Cris_Color@lemmy.world being nice helps establish the "tone", but I'm not sure that wouldn't change with another "API event" on Reddit that results in another, larger mass migration.
Another suggestion I have for college graduates is to ask your alma mater if they are going to start using something other than commercial social to engage with alumni.
Most universities don't want to make mistakes investing in the bleeding edge, but they are quick to follow. When a few schools do something, many more quickly copy that. They are also looking for low cost wins. Their engagement numbers are already telling them that Xwiiter no longer works to reach alumni or potential students.
If even a handful of alumni suggest a change at the right time, that is often enough to get them to give federated social a try.
That is when the less toxic "tone" really helps.
Cris
in reply to kreynen • • •That's an interesting and specific actionable idea, I love to see those! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Don't hesitate to talk about that idea (or others) more often with folks here on the Fediverse!
ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝
in reply to kreynen • • •The way I see it - the early adopters set the tone of a place and new arrivals are more likely to adopt that approach. So it is important to be kind now, so people will be kind later.
supersquirrel
in reply to ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝 • • •Even if a bunch of people flood in and "dilute" that culture, that will never erase the fact that if we make sure to be as nice as possible as early adopters of the fediverse, that any corruption of that initial culture will be remembered as such.
The narrative of this place as being about being nicer, kinder (still very flawed) and more accepting will live on, no matter what, even if we fail to meet that ideal for periods of time.
Personally though, I think it matters what version of people you invite in, so if as an early adopter I try to invite in the best versions of people (which includes actively trying to invite in the best version of me) because those best versions of people will turn around and invite in the best versions of other people.
I don't know why this isn't considered an old adage at this point, but it is fun as fuck being part
... show moreEven if a bunch of people flood in and "dilute" that culture, that will never erase the fact that if we make sure to be as nice as possible as early adopters of the fediverse, that any corruption of that initial culture will be remembered as such.
The narrative of this place as being about being nicer, kinder (still very flawed) and more accepting will live on, no matter what, even if we fail to meet that ideal for periods of time.
Personally though, I think it matters what version of people you invite in, so if as an early adopter I try to invite in the best versions of people (which includes actively trying to invite in the best version of me) because those best versions of people will turn around and invite in the best versions of other people.
I don't know why this isn't considered an old adage at this point, but it is fun as fuck being part of a kindness snowball, it is empowering, heart warming and inspiring all at the same time. Plus the thing you help participate in creating just grows in power so much, you can't help you did something real even if you were just a tiny tiny tiny tiny part of it.
Cornpop
in reply to Cris • • •AizawaC47
in reply to Cornpop • • •Cris
in reply to Cornpop • • •ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝
in reply to Cornpop • • •supersquirrel
in reply to Cornpop • • •Hey just so you know Love is actually not up-to-date with the current upstream branch and there are tons of security issues with that, you are going to have to manually upgrade your empathy drivers to keep up with the main One Love development branch.
I prefer to use Spite and just set up my own Love emulation environment within it and honestly because I like to DIY stuff I can't understand that not everyone else wants to DIY everything. People say this isn't something they "love" about me, and to that I repeat what I have repeated here.
rayyy
in reply to Cris • • •CalipherJones
in reply to rayyy • • •supersquirrel
in reply to CalipherJones • • •Gibibit
in reply to Cris • • •Cris
in reply to Gibibit • • •It does! Small changes over time can add up to incredible people skills and the ability to win hearts and minds ❤️
Thank you so much for the kind words my friend, I hope you have a lovely day!
Fungah
in reply to Cris • • •The thing in this post about curiosity isn't just a lemmy/online thing.
The vast majority of people are mainly interested in themselves. Like - if you have trouble on dates, making friends, getting along at work, anything to do with people in general - approaching them with a sense of sincere curiosity will completely change things overnight.
Get people to talk about themselves, be supportive in your discussions with them, and shut the fuck up wherever possible and suddenly you're interesting, a good person, kind, whatever - traits you've done exactly fuck all to demonstrate, but that people will swear are true because you seem interested in them.
It's fucking bonkers but it's true. Curiosity can change your world.
TheLastOfHisName
in reply to Fungah • • •Cris
in reply to Fungah • • •supersquirrel
in reply to Cris • • •supersquirrel
in reply to Fungah • • •The only humane, sensible and practical definition of intelligence that actually gets you anywhere productive is defining intelligence as a practiced and maintained sense of curiosity about the world around you, especially the world you know little of.
For example, Trump is a fucking idiot, because he never does this ever and neither do people who worship him.
MyNameIsAtticus
in reply to Cris • • •One my favorite ways to summarize this kind of thinking is with the Bill & Ted quote "Be Excellent To Each Other, and Party On Dudes" (mostly the first half applies to this post though). The part that applies to this post, Keanu Reeves said he interprets as follows:
Cris
in reply to MyNameIsAtticus • • •ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝
in reply to MyNameIsAtticus • • •MyNameIsAtticus
in reply to ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝 • • •Goated
in reply to Cris • • •Cris
in reply to Goated • • •I think given the existing culture of this space and the reasons people are drawn here it would be hard for that specifically to happen, but that's not to say we won't have our own cultural and platform challenges
I think in a worst case scenario we're more at risk of growing toxic and unhealthy in a new and different way than 4chan did
THCDenton
in reply to Goated • • •supersquirrel
in reply to Goated • • •Omega
in reply to Goated • • •wowwoweowza
in reply to Cris • • •I arrived at LEMMY after what I think we very optimistically called the Reddit Collapse. We wish. And I had toe in LEMMY and a few others at Reddit.
Recently with their abusively patronizing redesigning and gamification and just ugly bullshit, I can’t stomach Reddit at all. So LEMMY grows increasingly important, not just to me but to folks who haven’t yet even heard of it.
So, I’ll just say thanks for your post here. I have, I confess, engaged with a couple bullies on LEMMY and I always try to say… I don’t like to do this on LEMMY— and I say that precisely for the reasons you mention.
And as you encourage: I will try to be kinder, even in when feeling… hmm… less than kind.
Cris
in reply to wowwoweowza • • •Thank you for considering my thoughts ❤️. I think when our anger is justified and we are feeling less than kind is when kindness can have the biggest potential impact, and is most worth being proud of.
Undeserved compassion is a powerful thing. But I don't think that means you can't confront bullies and tell them their treatment of other people is unwelcome here. Those things aren't mutually exclusive :)
carrion0409
in reply to wowwoweowza • • •wowwoweowza
in reply to carrion0409 • • •It’s gotten to the point here at Lemmy that I’m wanting to set up my two favorite communities. It’s just that they are so niche I can’t imagine them taking off. And my pleasure in them is of course derived from people who are FAR MORE into them than I am.
But I can’t even go back to that cesspool Reddit now even for the good stuff. Oh well.
emberinmoss
in reply to wowwoweowza • • •macncheese
in reply to Cris • • •Cris
in reply to macncheese • • •Thank you! 🥰
Hope you have a good day!
Steven McTowelie
in reply to Cris • • •Cris
in reply to Steven McTowelie • • •Shardikprime
in reply to Steven McTowelie • • •finitebanjo
in reply to Cris • • •Lemmy being splintered and opposed to all forms of authority makes it perfect for radicalizing individuals to commit great harm and violence in their community.
All movement starts at the grassroots.
surph_ninja
in reply to Cris • • •THCDenton
in reply to surph_ninja • • •supersquirrel
in reply to surph_ninja • • •Cris
Unknown parent • • •Honestly if anyone is doing that I really feel like it would be the US, not Russia.
Russia's goal is to sew discord and unballance the populace that drives politics, and for that to work you need a MASSIVE scale that we just don't really have. They don't really have much to gain from the IP addresses of a handful of leftists
But Lemmy is exactly the kind of hotspot for people DEEPLY angry about the government of the US to organize that if we're big enough to be on their radar, the US government would have a vested interest in keeping an eye on potential dissidents. Unlike Russia IP addresses and personally identifiable information would be useful to them, in identifying threat actors, tracking their activity and volatility online, and building cases that would allow them to prosecute should said dissidents escalate
That's how it looks from where I'm standing anyway 🤷♂️
THCDenton
in reply to Cris • • •stormdahl
in reply to THCDenton • • •Cris
in reply to stormdahl • • •Happy Lemmy anniversary! I'm glad you're here :)
And yeah, I can very much understand that, I try to do the same. Sometimes it feels productive to talk with people you don't share perspective with, but if it's just gonna be a flame war I don't wanna go throwing gasoline, nothing is gained by that
stormdahl
in reply to Cris • • •Cris
in reply to stormdahl • • •stormdahl
in reply to Cris • • •Oh and happy Lemmy anniversary. Is it really today? Weird coincidence that I joined today.
I got temporarily banned from Reddit for saying that using ivermectin might kill you, and that was it. I’m done.
Cris
in reply to stormdahl • • •It must be, your name shows up highlighted with a little birthday cake in my client :)
And interesting, ivermectin has that intense of side effects when taken orally? Or do the pseudo-science people who think it cures covid just advocate dosing it ridiculously high?
By coincidence I actually use ivermectin topically for my rosacea, a skin condition. Being a anti-parasitic its useful fro reducing the amount of demodex mites that can aggravate rosacea in some people! I know in people it's mostly used for lice.
stormdahl
in reply to Cris • • •I was replying to someone that said they could use it to treat covid, which has lead to people dying. Guess I got reported by them and for some reason an admin thought it was meant as a threat?
That’s really interesting! Did you have any problems getting your hands on it when people started buying it for covid?
Cris
in reply to stormdahl • • •Gotcha, that sucks, but I'm happy you made the journey over to Lemmy!
And oh, no I only just started using it more recently. I don't think the topical kind was ever used by folks who thought it did something for covid anyway. I know there are also oral treatments for rosacea, but I'm not sure if oral antiparasitics are every used, since it's just on the skin of your face that matters.
It also only got a generic over the counter version more recently, if I remember right, but now you can get it as a lotion that's labeled for lice, but for some people it really helps with rosacea (rosacea is one of those really complicated multiple causitive factor health issues that can manifest in serveral different ways that we still only kinda sorta partially understand. Demodex mites seem to play a role in some people but not others, there's a lot of trial and error)
The perscription version sometimes perscribed for rosacea is called Soolantra I think, its really expensive so an over the counter generic is kindof a godsend for folks whose insurance won't cover it
stormdahl
in reply to Cris • • •I had no idea about all of that. I really learned something today! Already really like Lemmy and the Fediverse, I feel like most people here put some extra thought and effort into their posts and comments. I've used Reddit since I was 18 and it used to be the same, but as its popularity grew I guess the "wrong" kind of people started joining and participating. I think that's bound to happen with anything that gets really big. I've described some social justice movements the same way, where you had people who genuinely cared in the beginning but eventually as the movement becomes a trend the values and sentiments gets simpler, dumber and eventually unrecognizable from what the initial goal was.
By the way I think there's a little birthday cake next to my username because I created the user today lol.
Cris
in reply to stormdahl • • •Ohhh, yeah I meant the anniversary of your time on Lemmy, I didn't realize that's today because you just made your account. Welcome!! Lol.
And yeah it's definitely a pattern unfortunately :/ Lemmy is far from perfect, but it has a chance to be something better than we've had before and I think that's pretty cool :)
Katana314
in reply to stormdahl • • •Ace T'Ken
in reply to THCDenton • • •You sound exactly like the kind of person I want in my community:
!actual_discussion@lemmy.ca
Check the sidebar to see if it suits you too!
Vile_port_aloo
in reply to Cris • • •Cris
in reply to Vile_port_aloo • • •I should give quiche a chance...?
I like quiche okay 😅 very eggy but it can be pretty tasty 🤷♂️
Cris
Unknown parent • • •Yeah, if I don't have the answer I usually just stop in to say I hope someone more knowledgeable can chime in and wish them luck.
That way the post at least gets a little engagement for visibility. But the "rtfm" attitude, while understandable, can be really miserable to be met with when you're out of your depth doing your best to learn about something new and need some help from another actual human.
We all begrudge the automated phone systems that try to reduce the need for human beings by helping people with simple problems, and that approach to helping people exists for good reason but it does feel like sometimes we're too eager to leave people to figure things out by themselves just because it's a lot of work to actually help them, human to human. None of us enjoy being treated that way when we need help.
But_my_mom_says_im_cool
in reply to Cris • • •the_q
in reply to But_my_mom_says_im_cool • • •But_my_mom_says_im_cool
in reply to the_q • • •the_q
in reply to But_my_mom_says_im_cool • • •Rhoeri
in reply to But_my_mom_says_im_cool • • •But_my_mom_says_im_cool
in reply to Rhoeri • • •Rhoeri
in reply to But_my_mom_says_im_cool • • •Shardikprime
in reply to Rhoeri • • •Shardikprime
in reply to the_q • • •Cris
in reply to But_my_mom_says_im_cool • • •Its definitely rough, I can understand why. I live in the US and as a queer person whose loved ones are almost all minorities the outlook is feeling pretty bleak, but its definitely frustrating that it feels like even slightly different left wing ideas, or thoughts on what we do about our problems can spawn flamewars.
Literally with people you're in the exact same camp with :/ I'm also big on political debate, I think democracy can't function unless people can discuss with eachother what problems we have and what we think we should do about them. (And yes, I know we increasingly may not have much of democracy here in the US. I still think my statement is true of how democracy functions in general)
I think it's really valuable to learn how people arive at worldviews other than mine.
missingstring
in reply to Cris • • •Yeah. So much of our social media is structured to reinforce being combative. Even the upvote/downvote feature of Reddit/Lemmy etc has this effect of rewarding performativity over substance. People start competing for points and start to interpret high point totals as the equivalent of winning an argument or saying something of substance.
Since it’s a lot easier to get upvotes if you’re pithy or snarky or unserious the whole mechanism that underpins this tech tilts people toward simplistic and aggressive rhetoric.
I don’t want to get too “the medium is the message” here and complexity in political discussions (or any discussions really) have been decreasing generation over generation - so it’s not just a social media problem. But social media seems to have broken so many of the traditional guardrails we’ve had against demagoguery. It’s going to take a lot to unwind it.
Cris
in reply to missingstring • • •I agree. You can get a lot of positive reinforcement from sincere positive engagement (this post gave me lots, lol 😅) but it's exhausting work compared to just making a snide jab. And that really does profoundly shape peoples behavior over time.
I'm a BIG believer in the idea that the medium makes the message, and how we design the mechanics of this space shapes how we behave. Erin kissane has talked about that some in her work studying the fediverse and it's really stuck with me.
carrion0409
in reply to But_my_mom_says_im_cool • • •Shardikprime
in reply to carrion0409 • • •ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝
in reply to But_my_mom_says_im_cool • • •daniskarma
in reply to ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝 • • •Then the moderator would ban you because the mod agrees with the other person. I have seen it happen. (Not to me luckily, but I've got a post deleted and the post insulting me was upvoted by the same mod who deleted my post).
And not fron small communities, some of the bigger here on Lemmy.
Moderation is a bit lacking. Which is understandable as few people want to invest time in moderating.
Ace T'Ken
in reply to But_my_mom_says_im_cool • • •You sound exactly like the kind of person I want in my community:
!actual_discussion@lemmy.ca
Check the sidebar to see if it suits you too!
untakenusername
in reply to But_my_mom_says_im_cool • • •daniskarma
in reply to But_my_mom_says_im_cool • • •With the aggravated issue of moderators being far less ""professional"" here than in Reddit. At least in some big reddit communities there was a big admin team that tried to keep things more or less professional (not that they would always achieved that but they tried). Here mod teams are very small and mods mostly just got their position by just being here first, so I have found out a lot of very biased moderation and mods just using mod tools and position of authority to defend their own particular opinions.
If you are debating something with a moderator alt account, or with a moderator friend you are in for some unfairness going your way. At least that have been my experience trying to debate even very small deviations from a Community main political stance.
nickwitha_k (he/him)
in reply to Cris • • •I disagree with your premise.
It should be "The best thing that you can do for humanity is to be kind".
Seriously. We're living in a time when fascism is in an upswing and at least one religious leader has publicly called empathy a sin. Kindness and empathy are rebellious acts.
like this
BentiGorlich likes this.
Cris
in reply to nickwitha_k (he/him) • • •like this
BentiGorlich likes this.
nickwitha_k (he/him)
in reply to Cris • • •FollyDolly
in reply to nickwitha_k (he/him) • • •like this
BentiGorlich likes this.
ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝
in reply to nickwitha_k (he/him) • • •Letsdothisok
in reply to Cris • • •This sounds dumb.
Why thats none of my business? Presumptuous to think someone should submit themselves to your inquiries.
Better yet, ask someone else because you can't be trusted, obviously.
Cris
in reply to Letsdothisok • • •The first was in reference to when someone expresses an idea you don't understand or a perspective you don't share, and the latter was about the tendency to just keep scrolling and say nothing even when you like a post or comment, but I can see why you interpreted them that way.
In my experience when someone is expressing their thoughts they generally take kindly to folks asking them about why they see things the way they do 🤷♂️
liedetector31
in reply to Cris • • •spicehoarder
in reply to Cris • • •ArxCyberwolf
in reply to spicehoarder • • •spicehoarder
in reply to ArxCyberwolf • • •iamkindasomeone
in reply to spicehoarder • • •troglodyte_mignon
in reply to spicehoarder • • •bbdisease
in reply to Cris • • •ArxCyberwolf
in reply to bbdisease • • •emberinmoss
in reply to ArxCyberwolf • • •jsomae
in reply to Cris • • •untakenusername
in reply to jsomae • • •this
The amount of times I've been blocked on the fediverse because I've mentioned that I find the mechanics behind AI interesting, or the math behind crypto, its actually insane. Or anything positive about spacex or the benefits of a free market.
Mike-Roe Dickie
in reply to Cris • • •When I see small, I see potential. More people know each other which fosters genuine relationships and understanding, ingredients missing from the toxic environments of the big social networks.
My ex used to call me a very small dude with a big city attitude. She didn't mean it as a compliment, but I took it as one.
The fediverse is just a beautiful place to be you. It feels calm, relaxed, intellectual and full of supportive people. It's a refreshiong alternative to the sprawling and sometimes impersonal nature of vast social networks.
One thing we should all agree on, we all have a role to play in shaping the culture of this space.
Shardikprime
in reply to Mike-Roe Dickie • • •Eknz
in reply to Cris • • •untakenusername
in reply to Eknz • • •lightnsfw
in reply to untakenusername • • •daniskarma
in reply to lightnsfw • • •Eknz
in reply to untakenusername • • •MDCCCLV
in reply to untakenusername • • •RedPostItNote
in reply to MDCCCLV • • •MDCCCLV
in reply to RedPostItNote • • •PantanoPete
in reply to Cris • • •Sir_Simon_Spamalot
in reply to PantanoPete • • •Wiz
in reply to PantanoPete • • •pseudo
in reply to PantanoPete • • •No. But you can work on yourself to become a nicer, better person and we will support you all the way. Then, you will be allow to be yourself.
With love,
Pseudo
GooberEar
in reply to Cris • • •On the one hand, yes, yes, yes, absolutely.
On the other hand, way too often people are absolutely vile here and nobody sticks up for themselves or for others. Really a shame that r-word-it bullshit behavior is often times totally accepted and approved and even rewarded here.
Shardikprime
in reply to GooberEar • • •mriormro
in reply to Cris • • •unrealMinotaur
in reply to Cris • • •Rolivers
in reply to Cris • • •Alborlin
in reply to Cris • • •Okay I agree, so let's start from Linux related any post, tell them if somebody asks a problem don't tell them just install mint , or how one is crazy because they are facing the problems in Linux or if you are not using Linux what idiot are you.
I stopped participating because
1. Linux dude bros are just idiots troubling me
2. I can't find content which is though not niche is just is plain not news or Linux
3. It's very confusing to use fedverse as I don't know of i can go all subs via my boost app or do i need something else , if so where to access them.
So let's make it ACCESSIBLE, NON DERAGORTY FOR ANON LINUX USERS ALSO
desktop_user [they/them]
Unknown parent • • •BrainInABox
Unknown parent • • •SourGumGum
in reply to Cris • • •TanteRegenbogen
in reply to Cris • • •pseudo
in reply to TanteRegenbogen • • •Shardikprime
in reply to pseudo • • •TanteRegenbogen
in reply to pseudo • • •BrainInABox
Unknown parent • • •BrainInABox
Unknown parent • • •If you're getting comments removed from .world of all places, it's not because you're "calling out a tankie", that's for sure. I'm assuming it's more "screeching at a socdem".
Also, what do you mean "y'all"? We Already established by your own definition that I'm not a tankie. Unless you're just giving up the pretense that it's not just a meaningless snarl word you fling at anyone to the left of you.
BrainInABox
Unknown parent • • •BrainInABox
Unknown parent • • •BrainInABox
Unknown parent • • •Why was it removed.
Nah, that's not it, it's that I don't fit the definition of tankie that you yourself articulated.
Yes, I was already pretty convinced that who you call a tankie is entirely based on "feeling"
BrainInABox
Unknown parent • • •BrainInABox
Unknown parent • • •BrainInABox
Unknown parent • • •I don't know who the mod is or where it happened, what was the reason given in the modlog?
Yeah, and I don't meet it. You do understand how definitions work, right?
Ok, good luck practicing manic left bashing in the community I suppose. I'm going to go do some volunteer work in mine.
Ok, fascist paedophile.
BrainInABox
Unknown parent • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to Cris • • •Resol van Lemmy
in reply to Cris • • •I have mysteriously vanished for like 2 or so months now (which is a good thing, please take breaks from the internet every once in a while), I don't really remember NOT being kind here.
And this post reminds me of why Lemmy is a good place to begin with.
Sibshops
in reply to Cris • • •TheHiddenCatboy
in reply to desktop_user [they/them] • • •theblips
in reply to Cris • • •x4740N
in reply to theblips • • •The only problem is lemmy seems to be hostile to certain niches specifically ones closer to spiritual realted stuff
And just to make this clear to idiots who want to be idiots SPIRITUALITY IS NOT RELIGON
x4740N
in reply to Cris • • •Yeah try telling people here to be kind
This place is still nicer then reddit but it's still got problems with a**hole users
I'm sure there's more I'm missing but those are what I remember from the top of my head that I dislike about certain lemmy users and why I think not everyone here is capable of being kind
Lady Butterfly
in reply to Cris • • •…ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ jesuisatire bitPickup
in reply to Cris • • •@Cris
offtopic:
Test to see if from here it is possile to engage the friendica server of @utopiArte and @requeteChe.
btw and ontopic:
utopiArte
in reply to …ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ jesuisatire bitPickup • • •thx @…ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ jesuisatire bitPickup, this now came over, no idea why the inicial post by search didn't show up, some Lemmy/friendica issue, or maybe the it's because squeet.me is on the dev branch.
(upss, nope 2024.12 database version 1576/1576)
Also, your mention wasn't notified, this just appeared in the stream. Let's do a general reshare so this is ported over to diaspora too.
👍
@requeteChe @Cris
…ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ jesuisatire bitPickup likes this.
Jax
in reply to Cris • • •RedditRefugee69
in reply to Jax • • •Then just stop responding to them.
Your reasoning matches with some of the most hostile people out there because they have alarms that are very easy to trip. So virtually everyone "shows them there's no reason to be" kind.
For example, someone disagrees with you? They must be far too stupid to understand what you're writing or intentionally missing the point just to attack you, so there's no reason to be kind to them.
Nanook
in reply to Cris • • •kepix
in reply to Cris • • •