Plan on getting a Linux laptop: any suggestions?
I'm considering getting a laptop for Linux and want to know a few things before I do. Some important info before I start: I don't plan on using the laptop for anything too intense, mainly writing, digital art, streaming, browsing, and maybe very mild video editing (cropping at least and shortening at most). I would also prefer the laptop to be inexpensive, preferably under 1000 USD
I mainly want to know if whether I should get a laptop by a manufacturer that specializes in Linux or a laptop that runs a different OS (exp: Windows) to install Linux on later. I've also scouted out quite a few distros and have a good idea of which ones I would like using
I've already looked at a few mainline Linux hardware producers like System76 but want to know if it's worth it before sinking money into it
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delial
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PurrJPro
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JoeyJoeJoeJr
in reply to PurrJPro • • •FWIW, I have a galp5, and had a lot of stability issues with Pop. I used it for well over a year, as I thought using their own OS on the machine they sold me would give the best results. Ultimately I spent a lot of time opening support tickets, and trying to work around issues (desktop stuttering, crashes, touchpad randomly would stop responding, etc). I did not find their support team particularly helpful. I finally installed stock Ubuntu, and it's been significantly more stable.
I don't plan to buy from them again. If I were buying now, I'd be looking at Framework (probably their upcoming, larger model with the dedicated GPU).
delial
in reply to PurrJPro • • •The main thing I like is the hardware support. I knew before purchasing that everything would work, and that helped me feel okay dropping a pretty penny on a new laptop. Besides that, I'd say they're fine. They aren't designing and manufacturing their own hardware (at least not back when I bought one); the laptops are pretty standard off-the-shelf stuff. System76 just promises that it'll all work out-of-the-box. I've never used Pop!_OS, so I can't speak to that. Arch and Debian work great, though.
The only negative I can think of is: once the battery started to go after several years, they didn't have a replacement in their store, but because it's a generic laptop, there were new ones available on Amazon. It just would've been nice to get it from System76.
All-in-all, I'm a happy customer. I'm keeping my eye on Framework, though. The MNT Reform is also interesting. I don't like how thick it is, but that's because it uses 18650s for the battery, which would solve the problem of buying a new battery just to find that all the batteries were manufactured at the same time,
... show moreThe main thing I like is the hardware support. I knew before purchasing that everything would work, and that helped me feel okay dropping a pretty penny on a new laptop. Besides that, I'd say they're fine. They aren't designing and manufacturing their own hardware (at least not back when I bought one); the laptops are pretty standard off-the-shelf stuff. System76 just promises that it'll all work out-of-the-box. I've never used Pop!_OS, so I can't speak to that. Arch and Debian work great, though.
The only negative I can think of is: once the battery started to go after several years, they didn't have a replacement in their store, but because it's a generic laptop, there were new ones available on Amazon. It just would've been nice to get it from System76.
All-in-all, I'm a happy customer. I'm keeping my eye on Framework, though. The MNT Reform is also interesting. I don't like how thick it is, but that's because it uses 18650s for the battery, which would solve the problem of buying a new battery just to find that all the batteries were manufactured at the same time, so there are no working replacements.
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letbelight
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dpflug
in reply to letbelight • • •18650s are a standard size. Several companies make decent ones.
It's like taking AA cells, but lithium.
@delial
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letbelight
in reply to dpflug • • •ah... you mean refilling the battery right?
I tried that last time... I have no luck... Poor X220 can't get 10 hours with 9 cell like old times
delial
in reply to letbelight • • •It's not any battery. They just didn't do the original manufacturing, so you can find compatible replacements elsewhere.
I bought the System76 Kudu laptop back in 2016, but it is actually a W670RZ model laptop manufactured by Clevo Co. in China (unlike my previous laptop which was a MacBook Pro manufactured by Apple in China). System76 wasn't the only company selling the W670RZ, so they're not the only ones you can go to for replacement parts.
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PurrJPro
in reply to boonhet • • •Brgor
in reply to PurrJPro • • •Check out Framework if you haven't already! frame.work/linux
They're designed to be upgraded and repaired over time so they're super modular. You can also save some money if you're not afraid to put it together yourself.
Linux Compatibility on the Framework Laptop
Frameworklike this
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themadcodger
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waigl
in reply to Brgor • • •While I support the framework laptop, OP did also say under a thousand dollars. You cannot really get a framework laptop for that price.
Edit: Thousand, not hundred
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runaway
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PurrJPro
in reply to runaway • • •WigglyTortoise
in reply to PurrJPro • • •If you're getting a Dell (or other laptops, but I know it's fairly common in Dell laptops) try to avoid anything with AMD SmartShift. This feature is designed only for Windows and will cause problems with Linux.
I've been told of a pretty simple fix, so it's not the end of the world, but if you can avoid it I would.
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PurrJPro
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WigglyTortoise
in reply to PurrJPro • • •Great. I should add that the solution I mentioned was done on Mint, but it's a kernel parameter so I'd imagine it's not too distro-specific (I'm very new to Linux though so I may be wrong).
Here is the forum thread if you want to look for yourself. The actual solution should be the third-to-last reply.
The user added in the last comment that this problem may actually be fixed on a lot of SmartShift laptops, so it may not come up at all if you do get one.
justinh_tx
in reply to PurrJPro • • •I have a Dell G15 5520 as my daily driver. It's a 12th gen intel core i5-12500H with nvidia RTX 3050. I never even let it boot Windows. Booted straight off an Ubuntu USB and wiped the drive. Aside from some quibbles with Ubuntu itself (I hate that by default Firefox is a snap from the snap store), everything basically worked out of the box. The only real hurdle to jump is enabling the proprietary nvidia driver.
Dell has at times offered their laptops with Linux preinstalled. I'm not certain they have a current offering, but just about all of their models are well supported.
pnutzh4x0r
in reply to runaway • • •This is what I did... I currently use a refurbished Latitude 7420 with Pop!_OS as my daily driver (personal and work). Many of the Latitude, Precision, and XPS machines are actually Ubuntu certified, so you can have a high level of confidence of Linux working on them.
I've been using Linux on Latitudes for about 18 years and have had very little issues in terms of hardware support (although, tbf, I mainly stick to all Intel models as someone mentioned above). Highly recommended.
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amanneedsamaid
in reply to PurrJPro • • •Im happy with my ROG Zephyrus G14, which I only chose because of decent linux compatibility and a sale at Best Buy.
I would say when judging the price of a laptop, whether it is Windows focused or Linux focused, make your decision based off of mainly hardware specs (and that hardwares linux compatibility). For example (assuming same price), if a Windows laptop has a great AMD CPU and GPU, I would take that over a Linux laptop with an equivalent CPU but an NVIDIA GPU.
My best advice is to read posts / watch videos of people using / installing / reviewing Linux on said hardware before you buy it. For instance, Asus ROG laptops (like I have) require a program called asusctl to control certain aspects of the machine that are usually controlled by Asus's proprietary software. I would not have known this if not for researching beforehand.
EDIT: I agree with another comment, used Thinkpads are awesome and usually old enough that there will be next to no compatibility issues with Linux. Also, they're tanks!
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Tippon
in reply to PurrJPro • • •ConvertCoffeeToCode
in reply to PurrJPro • • •I've installed Linux on two Windows laptops:
- A 2019 Lenovo Yoga with an Intel CPU and Nvidia GPU. Kubuntu worked without any issue, aside from the Nvidia drivers being finicky. It also has a touchscreen with pen support, which works really well.
- A 2022 Asus Vivobook with an AMD CPU. Tried Fedora for this one and had tons of driver issues at first, but they eventually got patched.
So, I'd say that buying a Windows laptop and installing Linux on it is certainly viable, as long as you're ready to do some amount of troubleshooting or waiting for driver updates. Oh, and keeping the Windows partition somehow (dual booting or w/e) can be handy for firmware updates.
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Ferris
in reply to jivandabeast • • •jivandabeast
in reply to Ferris • • •Some things are better kept a secret ;)
Jkjk it was the old work laptop of someone i knew so i got it from them for the extremely low price of $0, slapped linux onto it, and went about my business
PurrJPro
in reply to borlax • • •constantokra
in reply to PurrJPro • • •air_filter likes this.
InverseParallax
in reply to borlax • • •No question, excellent compatibility, will last you a while, you can get a nicer one once you get comfortable.
Spent $500 on this one to hold you over till you can afford a framework, or spend less, you can still get by with a decent one for $250 or so.
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rescue_toaster
in reply to PurrJPro • • •System 76 customer here. I just replaced my 2011 system 76 lemur with a new lemur. I have Ubuntu installed on both and have never tried pop os. I was very happy with that laptop and the company in general. It actually still runs okay. I did replace the battery after about 5 or 6 years. I'm thinking of trying out nixos on it.
My guilty reason for upgrading was I wanted to play dwarf fortress at more than 5 fps...
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constantokra
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probably_a_robot
in reply to PurrJPro • • •I bought a DIY Edition Framework Laptop 13 with an i5 1240p for about $1050 after buying my RAM and SSD on their own. This is the best option if you're into modularity and upgradability and second only to buying used when it comes to environmental friendliness (in my opinion). Battery life isn't anything to write home about at least on 12th Intel though, supposedly 13th gen Intel CPUs do better
Otherwise, System76, Tuxedo Computers, and Laptop with Linux are probably good options if you want Linux pre-installed. All 3 of those take Clevo laptops and make them their own.
Starlabs also looks like an interesting option, but I believe the Starlite is the only option under $1000 USD. As far as I know, they're the only company that makes their own laptop chases from scratch for Linux.
Links:
Framework
Starlabs
System 76
Laptop with Linux
Tuxedo
Framework Laptop 13, now with AMD and Intel options, and introducing
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ursakhiin
in reply to PurrJPro • • •I have a Darter from System 76 with Pop!_OS as my personal laptop that I code on and I absolutely love it. It runs extremely smoothly and I've not had any crashes with it.
I also have a Lemur from them with Ubuntu for work and it's kinda meh. Is difficult to say what causes the issues I have. It may just be the corporate tools but I end up having hard locks that require a reboot.
If you go with them I strongly suggest Pop! The distro is built for their hardware and works really well.
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_s10e
in reply to PurrJPro • • •You got all the good infos already, but I'll stress:
- Get Linux preinstalled from a reputable vendor. Linux works on most devices really; but when buying new, you don't want the hassle to even think about drivers.
- If you cannot buy from a Linux-friendly vendor, buy an older model that's VERY popular with Linux users (like the stereotypical thinkpad). Again, most devices will work, but you don't want the hassle.
- Intel everything just works out-of-the-box with Open Source drivers and is good enough for work. I'm not aware of the current state of AMD, nvidia drivers.
- Choose a popular generic purpose distro. They are all good (enough) and should work out of the box. Popular for end users are Ubuntu (although hated by a vocal group) and related ones such Debian or PopOS; maybe Mint. I'd put Fedora/RedHat and Suse on the same level (but I wouldn't know since I settled on Debian/Ubuntu long ago). Then, Arch adresses a different clientele who wants to tinker with there system; not my choice if you want
... show moreYou got all the good infos already, but I'll stress:
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_s10e
in reply to CarrotsHaveEars • • •l3mming
in reply to PurrJPro • • •Lenovo is renowned for their excellent linux compatibility. I'm sure you'll get a bunch of proponents here saying the same.
BUT, oh boy. Don't get me started...
Too late. Having used various models of thinkpads in recent years, their inconsistent keyboard layouts will drive you absolutely insane. I swear, at this point they're just fucking with us.
I've got one in pieces somewhere, that has/had the ~ key next to the FN key on the bottom row! How the fuck are you supposed to use Linux if you're ~ key is down there? It's fucking stupid.
Not to mention their keys have a tendency to break off with just the mildest of fist slams.
AND the latest work-issued recent model is fucking with us again! It has the FN key ON THE LEFT SIDE of the Ctrl key on the left. Who does that? The Ctrl is always the left-most bottom key. Now, every time I fucking go to press Ctrl+something, I end up hitting FN instead.
Fucking morons! At this rate this laptop will also end up in pieces.
So, tldr; Stay the fuck away from Lenovo if you want to use Linux and not end up in prison for vehicular homicide.
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monobot
in reply to PurrJPro • • •It's not like other keyboards are better, I know why they are pissed and while it is annoying, Thinkpads X, T and P series are great linix machines.
What I don't like is soldered RAM. I got T490 after almost a decade of using X220, because it, at least, had one ram slot. Now I am rocking 48GB of ram in reliable hardware which os completely supported in linux (except bt having some issues, but still).
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James Kirk
in reply to monobot • • •monobot
in reply to James Kirk • • •Microphone on my headphones is not working, it is connecting but codec is off. It us not working with second parmir different manufacturer.
I got bt usb dongle and both work with it.
I don't know if the problem is in kernel driver or bt deamon...
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azvasKvklenko
in reply to l3mming • • •I have X1 Carbon Gen 6 and I love the laptop overall, I've been using it for 4 years so far.
I don't mind having fn and ctrl swapped, but my keyboard has also a stupid placement of PrntScr. It's on the bottom row, right to the space bar. I can't count times when I accidentally opened spectacle 50 times, because I hold the wrong key.
I have also happened to have a try with some newer thinkpads and they felt like the company made them worse on purpose. The material felt cheap, keyboard choppy and the trackpad absolutely abysmal with its lack of precision.
With the hardware support under Linux... yeah, they do work, but when you pick a new model, expect some missing features, worse power management, quicker thermal throttling etc. For me it significantly improved over time. With 10yo refurbished thinkpads Linux is great though, they say
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iopq
in reply to PurrJPro • • •I'm a fan of Framework laptops. They have given people the option to upgrade several motherboards by Intel and released an AMD version to boot. I don't think there's ever been a manufacturer that offered three generations of motherboards on the same chassis. The swappable ports are kind of neat, you can choose which ones you want to use
The 13" is already on sale with a 16" coming later this year
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flashgnash
in reply to iopq • • •Ray Steelworth
in reply to PurrJPro • • •TUXEDO Computers
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in reply to PurrJPro • • •BritishJ
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hardcoreufo
in reply to beaker • • •onescomplement
in reply to PurrJPro • • •If your on a budget, an older Thinkpad is a good choice. I picked up a X220 with a charger and spare battery off of Craiglist a year ago for $60.
Ended up going with Coreboot with a SeaBIOS payload and Debian OS.
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beeng
in reply to PurrJPro • • •Thinkpad T480s if you wanna save money for another something but get a good screen version. To take it to 1000USD on refurb /2nd hand Thinkpad Carbon.
Youre in a Linux thread, these run Linux like a dream.
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in reply to beeng • • •beeng likes this.
eshep
in reply to PurrJPro • •You can't go wrong with @TUXEDO Computers but it's gonna be hard to stay under 1000USD. Everything they have runs beautifully with linux and their support is far better than you'll find anywhere else. I've bought more laptops over the past 20 years than anyone probably should, and finally going with #TUXEDOComputers was worth the little extra I spent on it.
If you want to just buy some cheap laptop off the shelf, that's okay too, just do your homework first. Find out what hardware that exact part/model number has in it so you can know what sort of problems you may be dealing with later. I've bought at least 2 different models each of Sony, DELL, Acer, ASUS, HP, IBM, Lenovo, Apple, Compaq, 5~6 different off-brands I can't remember. Some work great with no hassle at all, some take loads of fiddling, and some have hardware that just doesn't work at all.
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hellodub
in reply to PurrJPro • • •I know you mentioned System76, but I thought an anecdote of the gazelle 15 I bought during covid would help.
It's the 2021 model with a 10th-gen i5, 16GB DDR4 RAM, a cheap 256 nvme SSD, and a GTX 1660ti for $1300. Very good laptop that I've used the hell out of since then. Has an excellent 120hz IPS panel (1080p) that's just buttery smooth, and using pop_os on it has been very stable, even with all their firmware updates including the switch to coreboot for their UEFI. Plays all the games I needed to when I was away from home, and the keyboard is one of the best I've typed on, on a laptop.
Now my only issue with it, is the shell, which was not entirely metal as I was led to believe. It's got some pretty cheap plastic for the bottom side that feels like it will crack if dropped even from a short height. I THINK this has been changed in newer models though, as they were using rebranded Clevo laptops for their chassis. Still, I hate that it's half nice brushed aluminum looking metal and half brittle plastic housing a VERY (at the time) expensive parts. It's the only flaw
... show moreI know you mentioned System76, but I thought an anecdote of the gazelle 15 I bought during covid would help.
It's the 2021 model with a 10th-gen i5, 16GB DDR4 RAM, a cheap 256 nvme SSD, and a GTX 1660ti for $1300. Very good laptop that I've used the hell out of since then. Has an excellent 120hz IPS panel (1080p) that's just buttery smooth, and using pop_os on it has been very stable, even with all their firmware updates including the switch to coreboot for their UEFI. Plays all the games I needed to when I was away from home, and the keyboard is one of the best I've typed on, on a laptop.
Now my only issue with it, is the shell, which was not entirely metal as I was led to believe. It's got some pretty cheap plastic for the bottom side that feels like it will crack if dropped even from a short height. I THINK this has been changed in newer models though, as they were using rebranded Clevo laptops for their chassis. Still, I hate that it's half nice brushed aluminum looking metal and half brittle plastic housing a VERY (at the time) expensive parts. It's the only flaw
Does this change my mind on buying System76? No, because I've seen their newer stuff and it's made leaps and bounds from my laptop in just a couple of years, and I absolutely plan on buying a beefier Oryx Pro or something on the future. They're excellent Linux machines
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in reply to PurrJPro • • •nasa1531 likes this.
lwuy9v5
in reply to PurrJPro • • •UnpopularCrow likes this.
BigTrout75
in reply to PurrJPro • • •sab
in reply to PurrJPro • • •TUXEDO Computers
www.tuxedocomputers.comlike this
kolorafa and r_ffer23 like this.
merryflag0655
in reply to PurrJPro • • •PainInTheAES likes this.
nivenkos
in reply to PurrJPro • • •The Asus Vivobook is a good deal.
But as an American you might be able to afford the Framework.
lynny
in reply to PurrJPro • • •admin likes this.
PurrJPro
Unknown parent • • •0xeb
in reply to PurrJPro • • •priapus
in reply to PurrJPro • • •like this
BrianTheeBiscuiteer and Libertus like this.
Nonononoki
in reply to PurrJPro • • •BrianTheeBiscuiteer
in reply to Nonononoki • • •Eh, I run Ubuntu on my newish XPS and it has issues I've never seen with using Linux before. If I knew ahead of time I would've gladly paid a few hundred extra not to have these problems.
Specifically, sometimes the keyboard just stops working (after waking from sleep) and I'll need to restart once or twice to get it working again. Also, 5G wifi loses its shit when I'm at home due to it randomly switching between my main AP and the extender. I only use 2G at home 😔.