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There are currently about 12600 satellites in orbit. As a result on average every day 3 fall out of space, dumping metals and other nasties into the upper atmosphere.

If we continue that rate of satellite loss, 1 in 4200, and extrapolate it to 1,000,000. That would be ~238 satellites PER DAY, falling out of the sky and spreading the materials they are made up of in the upper atmosphere. With some more substantial chunks hitting the surface, and possibly people.

That's just bonkers

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in reply to Quixoticgeek

This of course completely overlooks all other practicalities of orbital datacentres, that makes putting high power computing in orbit. Which for a summary include: too much radiation noise making the systems unstable (see Wikipedia for "single even upset"), cooling when you have to dump heat into a vacuum, low data bandwidth (compared to a fibre on earth), latency, and shear fucking cost.

It's an absolutely fucking stupid idea. And I'm angry I have to spend my Sunday debunking this shit.

2/2

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in reply to Quixoticgeek

Postscript: and before the cult of space Karen start with the "so you're an expert in orbital computing this week are you?" Well. One of my first jobs out of uni involved designing an onboard control system for a satellite. My design has literally been to space. I know what I'm talking about on this one.

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in reply to Quixoticgeek

you hardly need to be an expert to realise this is a terrible idea
"AI" data centres don't make sense before you launch them into orbit

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in reply to MarjorieR

@Dangerous_beans @marjolica Taking your comment a lot more seriously than you meant it: the sheer energy to do so is enormous. It's 55 times more energy than getting to Mars, according to NASA

nasa.gov/solar-system/its-surp…

in reply to MarjorieR

@marjolica @Dangerous_beans it's very very hard to actually hit the sun.
It literally needs less fuel to (eventually) hit Alpha Centauri!
in reply to Very Human Robot

@StompyRobot @Dangerous_beans I suspect it might need a bit less fuel than NASA talk about if you just wanted to drop something into the sun: NASA are very much into designing grazing orbits to maximise information gathering.
But yes, far better not to construct AI data centres, orbiting or otherwise, in the first place.
in reply to MarjorieR

@StompyRobot @marjolica no, a grazing orbit is easier than a collision
To get something to hit the sun you have to cancel out all orbital velocity, if you only do most you end up with a highly elliptical orbit
The parker solar probe for instance still ended up with an aphelion around the orbit of Venus
in reply to Quixoticgeek

@cstross exactly my point:

"oh these rich people know better than us"

no they fucking don't - money makes you stupid - they all decide that they were brilliant to get some money and promptly stop having any critical thinking skills

(i've spent too long around these kind of people)

in reply to Quixoticgeek

There's also the Kessler Syndrome cascading debris risk that the boffins at ESA and EUMETSAT were worrying about 15 years ago (yes, I worked at the latter in Darmstadt).

Once we get there it's goodbye LEO for thé foreseeable future.

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in reply to David Penfold

@davep good bye orbit. Who's gonna want to risk launching through a debris shell to get into orbit? What radio signals are we gonna get through the noise?
in reply to Quixoticgeek

Yup, that too. Russian roulette for every launch isn't a great idea.
in reply to Quixoticgeek

@davep not just radio seems like it is already interfering with earth based observation, large debris fields just making it worse.
in reply to David Penfold

@davep
The low orbit cleans itself up.
The high orbits are so insanely big that there's a fair amount of margin before we'd get even 1/10 of a percent of mission failures.
in reply to David Penfold

@StompyRobot
Counter-argument.

payloadspace.com/esa-report-sh…

nasa.gov/directorates/stmd/nia…

in reply to Quixoticgeek

Here's a sample from the latest Epstein emails dump coincidentally on the same day he decided to make a big orbital data center announcement
This entry was edited (13 hours ago)
in reply to George B

@gbargoud @davidgerard oh right. You know using a whole sentence is a really good way to avoid ambiguity
in reply to Quixoticgeek

@davidgerard
For such a common pattern, it's surprising that this seems to be the only citation I can easily find for a correcting asterisk:

explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php…

in reply to George B

@gbargoud @davidgerard it also looks like an accusation. You've 500 characters to use. Use them to be nice.
in reply to Quixoticgeek

All I understood is that by 2050 we must start fracking in the upper atmosphere to extract the valuable metal oxides deposited there by the burned up satellites. /s
in reply to Quixoticgeek

As someone else who worked on space electronics for a decade, I can affirm that yes, this person does indeed know what they are talking about.
in reply to Quixoticgeek

Thank you for giving us your Insight on this complex matter I was as ignorant as a 2-year-old child when it comes down to this subject now I'm in the loop

🦋💙❤️💋#Lobi 💙💕🌹💐💙🦋

#lobi
in reply to Quixoticgeek

he's desperate for new money, so he needs a new fairy tale people will invest in...
in reply to Quixoticgeek

it’s such an obviously stupid idea you wonder who benefits from proposing it. And I can only assume it’s both NVIDIA and SpaceX are pushing this obviously incompetent logic that can be destroyed by a high school physics student with 2 napkins and a grubby pencil.
in reply to Quixoticgeek

It only remains to be seen whether we destroy our potential future as a space-faring species by shrouding our planet in an impenetrable layer of space junk, or if we manage to ruin our climate, and thus economy and lastly civilization, before it comes to that.
in reply to Quixoticgeek

The cooling is manageable (the solar panels have a back side)
The low bandwidth and high latency are probably tractable for many AI and training purposes.

The whole point of the proposal, is to reduce the cost to orbit by another factor 100, just like space x did the first time, so complaining about cost misses the entire point. (Whether they can do it, I don't know!)

However. I don't see a good solution for radiation hardening. We have 15 pounds of shielding per square inch...

in reply to Quixoticgeek

This has got to be driven primarily by jurisdictional and regulatory concerns. "No one can stop my spicy chatbot... in... space..."
in reply to sdbbp

@sdbbp nah, Charlie Stross sums it up nicely, This is about a pending IPO and a need to inflate the plausibility of space x
in reply to Quixoticgeek

Oh, sure. I am totally with Charlie's explanation as the proximate cause. But I'm thinking about what's actually valuable to these people in ever realizing the ideas.
in reply to Quixoticgeek

I’m pretty sure there was a Star Trek episode where a species had so polluted their low orbit they couldn’t access space anymore. We’re well on our way there already, even without this latest musk brain fart.

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in reply to Nicovel0 🍉

@Nicovel0 Wall-E was a bit of a hint too, and might be more suitable to certain critical thinking skill levels.
in reply to Quixoticgeek

and the rest of the rubbish floating around hitting other satellites
in reply to Quixoticgeek

What’s even more bonkers is managing to launch 1,000.000 satellites 🛰️
in reply to Quixoticgeek

Techbros finally inventing dial-up speed Internet. What a boon for those of us fed up with high speed data transfer.
in reply to Quixoticgeek

these techbros Gluttonaires have a serious case of Ai psychosis.