Skip to main content


โš ๏ธ Scam alert: if anyone ever asks you to "temporarily change" the email address on your Mastodon account, DO NOT DO THIS.

There is currently a scammer posing as a server admin telling people to temporarily change their Mastodon account's email to an address supplied by the scammer. This is a scam, don't do it.

Real admins will NEVER ask you to do this.

You can see examples of this scam in the thread at ohai.social/@redsad/1157080301โ€ฆ

(Thanks @markwyner for the warning about this! ๐Ÿ™ )

#FediTips

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to Fedi.Tips ๐ŸŽ„

"Just temporarily set your passcode to 1 1 1 1 to reenact Meet the Spy..."
in reply to Fedi.Tips ๐ŸŽ„

> Real admins will NEVER ask you to do this.

yeah, *real* admins can change your email directly, without asking you :DDD
(usually we don't)

@markwyner

in reply to โ—

@fembot

Wellโ€ฆsort of. For example, Iโ€™m a moderator, but not an admin. I can see the email address of an account on our server, but I canโ€™t edit it. However, a moderator who is also an admin could.

We also canโ€™t see emails for accounts on other servers, even as an admin.

@mo @FediTips

in reply to Mark Wyner Wonโ€™t Comply

@fembot @mo
Offtopic:
That's something people should be more aware in general. Any service that isn't (properly!) End-to-End Encrypted or can't be, like Social Media or Cloud services (if you want all the fancy Office, Gallery etc. features to work), can't prevent server admins from doing whatnot with any user account.
I'm admin of my families' cloud server. If I wanted to I could disable 2FA, change email, password and keys of any user account and take full control.
in reply to Natasha Nox ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ธ

@Natanox
> Any service that isn't (properly!) End-to-End Encrypted or can't be, like Social Media

Social network apps can (in theory) use E2EE and really ought to, for anything that isn't intended to be a public post.

> or Cloud services (if you want all the fancy Office, Gallery etc. features to work)

Why would this prevent E2EE being used?

@markwyner @fembot @mo @FediTips

in reply to Strypey

@strypey *Technically* both could do it, BUT for social media websites this would blow the project scope completely out of proportion especially for FOSS projects and only ever apply to DMs (also to implement this in a user-friendly, yet secure way is extremely hard). It's more sensible to point to Signal, Threema etc.

For Cloudโ€ฆ you can do it, but this would automatically exclude *any* server-side feature (a lot!). That's why Nextcloud doesn't default to it.
@markwyner @fembot @mo @FediTips

in reply to Natasha Nox ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ธ

> for social media websites this would blow the project scope completely out of proportion especially for FOSS projects

*cough* Matrix *cough*

> It's more sensible to point to Signal, Threema etc

See above.

> this would automatically exclude *any* server-side feature

But ... how? Either I completely misunderstand what you're saying, or maybe you're getting confused between E2EE and on-device.

@markwyner @fembot @mo @FediTips

in reply to Strypey

@strypey @fembot @mo Matrix is an absolute clusterfuck that doesn't work properly in so many cases it's not even funny anymore and requires the user to take care of their own keys to not see "Couldn't decrypt message" all the time (and even if you got the keys it loves to still not work properly, deauthenticate your session willy-nilly, etc.). If anything Matrix is a prime example of exactly what I said, that it's extremely hard and would blow up any social media project.
in reply to Natasha Nox ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ธ

@strypey @fembot @mo With Cloud, to make sure admins can't just take over your account or look into things, everything has to be encrypted by your devices so nobody but you is able to decrypt it without your password (which is used to derive the encryption key from). Changing said password without entering the old one, like a server admin can do, would permanently lock the account out of its own files.
in reply to Natasha Nox ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ธ

@strypey @fembot @mo This however also means that the server can't read any of the files and therefore has no way to do anything with them, let it be automated calendar features, any kind of sorting, tagging, face recognition on your photos etc. Any kind of compute would have to happen on the user devices. This is technically possible but often either inherently user-unfriendly are not feasible for various reasons (battery, bandwidth, whatever).
in reply to Natasha Nox ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ธ

(1/?)

Ok, let's back up a bit. Firstly, the End-to-End principle isn't really relevant here, because there's only one 'end' involved; the device you're using with the server. HTTPS already encrypts the connection between the two.

So what we're really talking about is encrypting what the server is doing - both processes and storage - so that it can only be accessed by the person doing their computing there, not an admin of that server.

@Natanox
@markwyner @fembot @mo @FediTips

in reply to Strypey

@strypey @fembot @mo So you're talking about Secure Enclaves on the server while I'm talking about classical E2EEโ€ฆ?

This gets very technical and drastically Offtopic, we should split this thread to not flood people's inbox. ๐Ÿซ 

in reply to Natasha Nox ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ธ

@Natanox
> So you're talking about Secure Enclaves on the server while I'm talking about classical E2EEโ€ฆ?

On reflection, you're right that E2EE isn't the right term. But the first post I replied seemed to be implying that using a server without exposing everything you do to the admin isn't possible with "cloud" services (doing your computing on someone else's computer instead of our own). If that's not what you meant, then we're good.

@markwyner @fembot @mo @FediTips

in reply to Strypey

(2/?)

> Any kind of compute would have to happen on the user devices

So LavaBit, CryptPad, Mega, and all the other projects that have developed services they say they can't see inside of, they're all doing everything on device, with only storage and sync happening on the server?

in reply to Natasha Nox ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ธ

@Natanox
> Matrix is a prime example of exactly what I said, that it's extremely hard and would blow up any social media project

The existence of a wide range of Free Code projects implementing Matrix suggests the opposite.

> requires the user to take care of their own keys to not see "Couldn't decrypt message" all the time

There have been UX teething problems. But I haven't had a UtD error since the software I'm using upgraded to the Matrix 2.0 approach.

@markwyner @fembot @mo @FediTips

in reply to Natasha Nox ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ธ

@Natanox
> for social media websites this would blow the project scope completely out of proportion especially for FOSS projects

I was so surprised by this I forgot to mention the obvious counterexample, the branch of the fediverse that includes Friendica, Hubzilla, and Forte. Federation between some of these use the DFRN/ Zot/ Nomad protocol to do some degree of E2EE on non-public posts. It doesn't seem to cause any more headache than implementing ActivityPub.

@markwyner @fembot @mo @FediTips

in reply to Fedi.Tips ๐ŸŽ„

Can non-admins even see the email?

The reason ask is because I use unique emails for different thingsโ€ฆ and I expect only the admin could see the email I used for mastodon.

in reply to Phillip Upton

Admins/mods can indeed see account email addresses. And IPs. We use those tools to help keep things safe. I believe this is true for most every system where you have an account.

Itโ€™s possible thereโ€™s a setting that restricts email addresses to only admins, with no mod access. But Iโ€™m not sure about that. I just assume all mods have access. But mods are sort of admins in many ways.

@FediTips

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source
Mark Wyner Wonโ€™t Comply

@MikeImBack

Spam is complicated. Once a person with nefarious intentions has access to a single account from someone, they can use info from that to take myriad other actions.

For example, they can use it to gain access to other accounts that person owns. They can also use the hacked account to impersonate the person, phishing with people the victim knows.

@FediTips

in reply to Fedi.Tips ๐ŸŽ„

I'd like to think that @Mastodon users are more intelligent than to fall for that.... ๐Ÿ˜‚
in reply to kaffando

@kaffando

Wellโ€ฆyouโ€™d be surprised how many people get confused about this kind of thing. Itโ€™s easy to assume our knowledge/experience is universal, but itโ€™s not. There are a lot of non-tech-savvy folks on Mastodon.

@FediTips @Mastodon

in reply to kaffando

@kaffando @Mastodon

I doubt it is a lack of intelligence that is the reason why people fall for scams; some people have a very trusting nature, or are tired/ill or distracted, stressed out and for a moment let their guard down.

I sincerely hope you are never caught off guard like so many intelligent folk.

in reply to Mark Wyner Wonโ€™t Comply

email I can see, but anyone on mastodon that has multiple accounts is not like to fall for phishing scams you'd think...they're just going after the wrong people here
in reply to Fedi.Tips ๐ŸŽ„

Re last: If anyone asks you to do that regarding your alovertheplace.ca account, talk to me. I will nuke them and their instance from orbit.
in reply to James H

@quanin
> I will nuke them and their instance from orbit

It's the only way to be sure ; )

in reply to Fedi.Tips ๐ŸŽ„

Something very similar was attempted with me through Steam. That was two or three years ago. I think the perpetrator got what was coming to him, because I reported the incident to all three mediums/platforms he tried to exploit to do it.
in reply to Fedi.Tips ๐ŸŽ„

Also, don't feel bad if you fall victim to a scam. There's no shame in it. We're all vulnerable to one type of scam or another, and the biggest protection is accepting that and staying vigilant.

Roknrol reshared this.

in reply to thermonuclear small claims

@fullfathomfive

Absolutely. I do see some shaming and disbelief that folks are susceptible. That bothers me. It happens. Thank you for offering this reassurance to people.

@FediTips

in reply to Fedi.Tips ๐ŸŽ„

p.s. To add a bit of context, the scammer may message you to claim they reported you by accident. They then try to convince you to get in touch with a different account that pretends to be an admin who can "fix" the situation. All of the things they tell you are lies.

The scammer is actually running both accounts and just wants to take over your account by tricking you into changing your email address to their email address. They would then use your account to post other scams.

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)

reshared this

in reply to Fedi.Tips ๐ŸŽ„

I've seen a similar scam go around on discord. I'd imagine it'd be easy to fall for this sort of thing if you aren't tech inclined or don't know about this stuff. I hope all of these jerks get exactly what's coming to them and like someone else said in this thread, let's not shame people if they do end up falling for scams.
in reply to Kaliah

Yeah, never a good idea to shame anyone as:
1) They are victims, it's just wrong to shame victims
2) All of us are vulnerable, we should all be keeping our guard up
3) Shaming discourages victims from warning others, so the shaming is just helping the scammers
This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to Fedi.Tips ๐ŸŽ„

@Kaliah
Hereโ€™s a good post from @pluralistic himself about how even if this sort of thing is your world, it still only takes a moment of distraction.

So yeah. It can happen to anyone. Blaming the victim doesnโ€™t help, however โ€œobviousโ€ it seems to someone else with distance and hindsight.

pluralistic.net/2024/02/05/cybโ€ฆ

in reply to Fedi.Tips ๐ŸŽ„

@Kaliah
They're doing this as a full-time job and putting their whole attention on it. As @pluralistic says, the scammer only has to be lucky once. You have to be lucky always.
in reply to Fedi.Tips ๐ŸŽ„

That is such an obviously bad idea that I wouldn't do it regardless of whether the person asking was a real admin or not.
in reply to Fedi.Tips ๐ŸŽ„

It is the kind of scam where someone asks you to empty your bank account into theirs in order to keep your money safe. It seems like people still fall for that.
@markwyner
in reply to Fedi.Tips ๐ŸŽ„

๐Ÿ‘†๐Ÿผ

Ping @admin .

Une comm en ce sens dans la langue de Moliรจre pourrait รชtre une bonne chose, non ?
@markwyner

in reply to Fedi.Tips ๐ŸŽ„

Not just for Mastodon, any service that uses email for resetting your password will have people trying this scam.

Don't fall for it anywhere.

And yes, a real admin will be able to change your email and password, etc on their own, so any time someone claiming to be an admin asks you to do that, it's a red flag.

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
โ‡ง