Electric vehicle drivers are likely to be hit with a new “pay-per-mile” tax in the forthcoming budget, amounting to an extra £250 a year on average. The scheme, which would charge EV motorists 3p per mile on top of other road taxes, comes amid falling fuel duty revenue as more people switch from petrol to electric.
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Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Col • • •Col reshared this.
Col
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Col
in reply to Col • • •Col reshared this.
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Col • • •Col reshared this.
Sarah W
in reply to Col • • •That's what has been suggested. Then an adjustment at the end of the year. But how this would be tracked is another question.
Maybe it could be part of the MOT test.
Col reshared this.
John_Loader
in reply to Sarah W • • •Col reshared this.
Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK
in reply to Col • • •@Disputatore
Apparently its from estimates of individual drivers mileage (presumably obtained from MOT for older vehicles or maybe self-declaration similar to applying for insurance (the govt could get this data from insurance companies/MIB, or even from manufacturers for vehicles still in the dealer servicing network with active telemetry)
But this is only going to fuel the conspiracy theories of the paranoid, and could even stall the wider adoption of EVs (especially as the easy customers with at home charging have already been cherry picked and there seems to be little effort to make it easier for those with on street parking)
whatcar.com/news/pay-per-mile-…
Confirmed: Pay-per-mile tax to be announced for EV drivers in this month's Budget
Eleanor Cooper (What Car?)Col reshared this.
UkeleleEric
in reply to Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK • • •Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK
in reply to UkeleleEric • • •@UkeleleEric @Disputatore
Its *on top* of the £195 VED for normal vehicles, hence why its a daft idea which could well put folk off getting an EV - if you can't charge at home you are at the mercy of various public charger operators with higher levels of rent seeking and data harvesting and at present less reliability than just buying petrol/diesel, and at present there seem to be 0 attempts to improve this situation (which won't change if left to the market alone)
Col
in reply to UkeleleEric • • •Sarah W
in reply to Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK • • •I understand that the idea is to pay for the roads but this idea will surely dissuade people from using an EV and consequently from buying one.
The most polluting stage of having an EV is its construction not its use so discouraging people to drive one after purchase is of negative benefit.
Col reshared this.
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Sarah W • • •Col reshared this.
Sarah W
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Oh completely. And one could argue that ev drivers should pay more as the cars are heavier and therefore cause more wear and tear.
But then again that is counter productive if we want cleaner air.
I'm an EV owner myself but I might be put off if I had to pay more tax. One of the advantages is cheaper running costs but this is offset against higher purchase price.
Col reshared this.
John_Loader
in reply to Sarah W • • •Col reshared this.
BashStKid
in reply to Sarah W • • •@Sarahw @Disputatore @vfrmedia I guess there’s a wider phrasing of should we tax socially good things before taxing socially bad things?
After all, would you tax people for not smoking if the tax take from smoking declined?
Given there is no road fund, or hypothecated taxes, easier to look at global budget shortfalls and where do we want to make them up from?
Col reshared this.
Flic
in reply to Sarah W • • •reshared this
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Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK
in reply to Flic • • •@Flisty @Sarahw @Disputatore
Although anyone looking through my profile/timeline might think I'm a petrolhead, I only started driving in my 40s and managed 30 years without a car because I lived in London/SE England, but all it took was one recession in the late 2000s and having to move to more car-dependent East Anglia to find work to change that.
Another problem, particularly in provincial towns is alternative transport is often just about good enough for traditional 9-5 weekday working hours, but the moment you work outside those hours, or if you want to travel for pleasure on a weekend it becomes non-existent..
Flic
in reply to Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK • • •Nae King! Nae quin! Nae Laird!
in reply to Flic • •I love 5 miles from Preston, 10 miles from Chorley in Lancashire (ACF - as crow flies), buses half hourly to Preston, hourly to Chorley).
Yesterday I had to take my EV for a check up at the garage in Chorley.
25 minute drive.
Returning home I missed a bus (circuitous route) to Preston, it took me almost 2 hours to get home
Returning to garage took 3 hours (half hour walk) due to rush hour traffic.
Even in urban Lancashire public transport is rubbish!
@Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK @Sarah W @Cogito Ergo Disputo @Col
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Flic
in reply to Nae King! Nae quin! Nae Laird! • • •Col reshared this.
Nae King! Nae quin! Nae Laird!
in reply to Flic • •like this
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Flic
in reply to Nae King! Nae quin! Nae Laird! • • •Col reshared this.
Nae King! Nae quin! Nae Laird!
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Flic
in reply to Nae King! Nae quin! Nae Laird! • • •Nae King! Nae quin! Nae Laird! likes this.
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Flic
in reply to Flic • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Flic • • •Flic
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Sarah W
in reply to Flic • • •I agree. Free to use, regular public transport is the ideal so that it's people's first choice and only take a car if they really have to.
Col reshared this.
Flic
in reply to Sarah W • • •Col reshared this.
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Flic • • •Flic
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Flic
in reply to Flic • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Flic • • •Flic
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Flic • • •Ylönën
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Ylönën • • •Flic
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Flic • • •@Flisty @Sarahw @vfrmedia I was actually asking @paavi.
But regarding your point, the security android would do wonders in all of those cases. A solution which could be faster to implement and would be effective in those milder cases, could be an intercom system operated from a central location. In case of need, they would talk to the aggressor to remind him that the events were being recorded and police (or RoboCop) would be called if deemed required.
Mark Whybird
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •@Disputatore @Flisty @Sarahw @vfrmedia They’re British; there’s a distinct possibility that will work.
(Aussie here, making light fun of the poms, but in all honesty: yes, having an actual human around absolutely does reduce violence. That’s definitely true here, at least!)
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Mark Whybird • • •but @Flisty is a human and that doesn't deter them...
Mark Whybird
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Festive Firehorseart
in reply to Mark Whybird • • •@whybird
In the UK, women tend to feel safer if there's a guard on a train/bus or at a station. If nothing else, it means an official present to report incidents to.
Security cameras aren't there for safety, just to gather evidence. By then it's too late to protect events escalating.
@Disputatore @Flisty @Sarahw @vfrmedia @kibcol1049
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Festive Firehorseart • • •Festive Firehorseart
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •@Disputatore
A corporate android would most likely prioritise protecting property over saving people, so I don't think that solves the personal safety issue.
@whybird @Flisty @Sarahw @vfrmedia @kibcol1049
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Festive Firehorseart • • •Flic
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Flic • • •Flic
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Flic • • •Flic
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Flic • • •Festive Firehorseart
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •@Disputatore
Hmm, I anticipate ticket prices going up to pay for this android add on.
I'd still rather have my fare support a human driver/guard, so they can eat and live well.
@Flisty @whybird @Sarahw @vfrmedia @kibcol1049
Flic
in reply to Flic • • •Will the android also be preventing fare evasion?
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Flic • • •Flic
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Flic
in reply to Flic • • •And also I'm guessing the wear and tear on the "jiu jitsu practice for the price of a bus fare" robot might be pretty significant.
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Flic • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Flic
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Flic • • •Festive Firehorseart
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •@Disputatore
Sending Dredd in seems a bit heavy handed.
Are these buses in the Badlands or Megacity?
@Flisty @whybird @Sarahw @vfrmedia @kibcol1049
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Festive Firehorseart • • •Festive Firehorseart
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •@Disputatore
But now I'm concerned that London may have a radioactive wasteland beyond the North Circular.
Be honest, is it in Walthamstow?
😬
@whybird @Sarahw @vfrmedia @kibcol1049 @Flisty
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Festive Firehorseart • • •Flic
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Flic • • •Mark Whybird
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Mark Whybird
in reply to Mark Whybird • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Mark Whybird • • •Mark Whybird
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Mark Whybird • • •Mark Whybird
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Col
in reply to Mark Whybird • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Mark Whybird • • •Col
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Sarah W
in reply to Mark Whybird • • •I've got another idea which would help keep passengers fit and healthy and is environmentally ethical.
Cut out little holes for legs and make the passengers run. Of course there should be an opt out for elderly or infirm passengers, maybe they could steer?
Col reshared this.
Sarah W
in reply to Sarah W • • •This obviously negates the need for any 'bus security droid' as the passengers are otherwise occupied (not to mention strapped in).
Col reshared this.
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Sarah W • • •Col reshared this.
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Sarah W • • •Col reshared this.
Sarah W
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Well possibly. But bikes wouldn't keep the rain off, nor help those unable to cycle.
Col reshared this.
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Sarah W • • •an interesting dilemma. But somehow I don't think people would consider having to be the engine of their own bus a positive evolution.
But I remember an old Spirou book where together with Fantasio they are infiltrated in an Eastern European country and get in a bus, only to find out that all the passengers have to pedal to make the bus move.
Mark Whybird
in reply to Sarah W • • •Col reshared this.
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Mark Whybird • • •Mark Whybird
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Mark Whybird
in reply to Mark Whybird • • •Mark Whybird
in reply to Mark Whybird • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Mark Whybird • • •Festive Firehorseart
in reply to Flic • • •@Flisty
TBH, I have a SKoGA (shaky knowledge of geography award), so you could be right.
Barking is far out. I'm unsure if I've been there yet.
@Disputatore @whybird @Sarahw @vfrmedia @kibcol1049
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Festive Firehorseart • • •@srfirehorseart @whybird @Flisty @Sarahw @vfrmedia I'm sorry, I don't see how prioritising the protection of property gets in the way of protecting the users. What's the scenario you're proposing? There are two aggressors and one of them bashes the windows to distract the android while the other one kicks old ladies in the shins?
Nope. I came up with the androids in this completely theoretical discussion, and I'm telling you these androids are there to protect the passengers.
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Flic
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Larry
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Out of curiosity - does the London DLR have more of a yabo problem than other tubes?
Flic
in reply to Larry • • •Larry
in reply to Flic • • •Ok, so not totally automated.
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Larry • • •Larry
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •urbandictionary.com/define.php…
Only heard it said and didn't know the spelling.
Urban Dictionary: yabbo
Urban DictionaryCogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Larry • • •Flic
in reply to Larry • • •Larry
in reply to Flic • • •It's an observation going back to Mackay's Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds ( or earlier,) that cant, argot, and common slang changes quickly.
Richard W. Woodley ELBOWS UP 🇨🇦🌹🚴♂️📷 🗺️
in reply to Larry • • •sounds like somebody just mispronounced yahoo and it caught on
Flic
in reply to Larry • • •bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg8p5…
Free driverless bus trial starts in Cambridge
Ben Schofield (BBC News)Flic
in reply to Flic • • •And lo, I have found something that isn't just a rewrite of the initial press release that says it "might" not need a "pilot driver" by 2027 - ie it is currently automated in the same way the Las Vegas Loop is.
mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/futu…
Woman rides on futuristic self-driving bus and pinpoints key problems
Cait Findlay (Daily Mirror)nick
in reply to Flic • • •Flic
in reply to Flic • • •Larry
in reply to Flic • • •Considering the carrying capacity of either a tram or a bus to move the public if not encumbered, and the limits of the private auromobile - why do we allow cars on urban streets?
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Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Larry • • •Larry
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Sorry, didn't check your profile first.
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Larry • • •lopta
in reply to Larry • • •Larry
in reply to lopta • • •Spelling error: yabbo.
lopta
in reply to Larry • • •Festive Firehorseart
in reply to Flic • • •@Flisty
There are a couple of driverless buses in my city centre. Not sure if they're a test or a permanent thing.
@Disputatore @Sarahw @vfrmedia @kibcol1049
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Flic • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Gareth 🏴
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •@Disputatore
Yeah, this feels like they’re sticking it to us EV drivers, but they’re not only losing all the money I used to spend on petrol, but they get very little out of me on public chargers too, since I almost exclusively charge at 7p/kwh at home.
And the roads do need to be maintained. Eventually there will be no petrol cars. So they need some way of getting money from the heavy road users rather than taxing the cyclists and pedestrians for the motorways they’ll never use.
A vaguely per-mile charge sounds fair. I don’t know how that compares with the per-litre fuel duty.
But short of actually taxing billionaires and megacorps properly (and… yeah, wouldn’t that be lovely!), this is probably ok?
@Sarahw @vfrmedia @kibcol1049
John_Loader
in reply to Gareth 🏴 • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to John_Loader • • •John_Loader
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK
in reply to John_Loader • • •My relatives have solar + batteries and it seems the batteries are more useful for resillience rather than immediate payback - a couple of months ago they lost the grid supply for a whole hour (at least during daylight in good weather) and the entire house power demand was picked up by the solar + batteries without even making much of a dent in the battery charge level (rather like a giant UPS)
Squibbles
in reply to Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK • • •Col reshared this.
Gareth 🏴
in reply to Squibbles • • •@squibbles
Yeah, I can see why that’s less appealing. Being able to use 7p electricity when the solar isn’t generating enough means that I basically never have to pay the full 28p price.
I had a colleague who was confident that the future of electricity was more micro-grids. Batteries and cars able to put power back into the grid when needed to smooth out peaks of very high usage and then charge back up when renewables are plentiful and demand is low.
Personally, I think the (British) government should be subsidising batteries - at least for low income households - as once they’re in, savings are immediate.
@vfrmedia @John_Loader @Disputatore @Sarahw @kibcol1049
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Gareth 🏴 • • •Gareth 🏴
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Isn’t that what the service charge is for? Even if I was completely self sufficient and pulled nothing from the grid, there’s a daily fee just for being connected.
@squibbles @vfrmedia @John_Loader @Sarahw @kibcol1049
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Gareth 🏴 • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Squibbles • • •Col reshared this.
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Alexander Knochel
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Alexander Knochel • • •John_Loader
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Gareth 🏴
in reply to John_Loader • • •@John_Loader
Every now and again I dream about going off-grid, but I can force discharge my battery towards the end if the day to get 15p/kwh and then fill it back up at 7p so even with gas central heating, my monthly direct debit is somewhere less than £20 to break even over a year.
I’d like to get a heat pump and ditch gas altogether, but that would be another couple of grand up front and only save £250 or so a year.
@Disputatore @squibbles @vfrmedia @Sarahw @kibcol1049
pmcneil, nerd
in reply to John_Loader • • •@John_Loader @Disputatore @gareth @Sarahw @vfrmedia interestingly in Australia my payback period for going full electric house, solar and battery was 6 years. Now I'm on wholesale electricity rates, which means electricity during the day can go negative price. In the evening it can spike to $19 per kWh. So batteries really help. You can suck up cheap energy and use it at night. Or sell you battery energy to the grid during spikes in price, so maximise what you get for your solar.
Even with two electric cars I haven't spent money on energy bills over a year, in fact I've managed to get paid!
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to pmcneil, nerd • • •Ariaflame
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Ariaflame • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Estarriol, Terrorist Dragon
in reply to pmcneil, nerd • • •this is the secret that fossil fuel conglomerates really don't want out. That properly set up renewables really are.
David Penfold
in reply to John_Loader • • •LiFePO4 batteries have massively dropped in price. You could easily do a 16kWh DIY setup for well under €1,000
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to David Penfold • • •David Penfold
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •@Disputatore @John_Loader @gareth @Sarahw @vfrmedia
Hybrid transformerless inverters aren't generally good for working off-grid by the way.
youtube.com/watch?v=by6E1cVkTo…
- YouTube
www.youtube.comjohn r red-horse
in reply to David Penfold • • •@davep
That was a very entertaining video. Thanks for posting the link to it!
@Disputatore @John_Loader @gareth @Sarahw @vfrmedia @kibcol1049
David Penfold
in reply to David Penfold • • •@Disputatore @John_Loader @gareth @Sarahw @vfrmedia
If you're interested in DIY batteries, check out the off-grid garage on YouTube.
Here's a thread about a couple I made...
infosec.exchange/@davep/113759…
David Penfold :verified: (@davep@infosec.exchange)
David Penfold :verified: (Infosec Exchange)John_Loader
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •David Penfold
in reply to John_Loader • • •@John_Loader @Disputatore @gareth @Sarahw @vfrmedia What sounds dodgy? The hybrid inverter or the 16kWh DIY battery?
Here's one that includes a "DIY" cabinet. It's more expensive but easier to assemble.
youtube.com/watch?v=LiLsu_T4j_…
- YouTube
www.youtube.comJohn_Loader
in reply to David Penfold • • •John_Loader
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Flic
in reply to Gareth 🏴 • • •John_Loader
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •caitp
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to caitp • • •A-Ho-Ho-Ho-aly BSC SSC
in reply to Sarah W • • •For an average sized family car, it can take up to 50,000 miles of use just to offset it's construction cost.
For me who does an avg of less than 5,000 miles a year... that's 10yrs of driving.
It's why I'm still driving the 17yr old car I've had for years. It's reliable, still runs, requires little to no maintenance outside of wear and tear, has no rust, everything works aside from the cruise control and it passes it's yearly MOT without issues. It's also at the luxury end of the market, a top of the line Japanese built Honda.
I know at some point It will reach a point where it's no longer economical to keep... and a replacement will be required. But it will not be an EV, I cannot justify the expense of one, even a used one... and with used car prices having tripled since covid and showing no signs of falling... that 17yr old car that I paid £1800 for... is now going for £2500-3000 over 7yrs later.
Col reshared this.
Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE
in reply to A-Ho-Ho-Ho-aly BSC SSC • • •@Anomnomnomaly @Sarahw @vfrmedia @Disputatore My car is 22 years old. I have to remember to drive it once every three weeks or so, because if the battery goes totally flat after a few months of not being used it can be a right pain to get going again.
The advice you see online to "run the engine for at least an hour a week" seems way OTT, at least in my case. Driving to the tip once every three weeks seems fine, and gradually empties the garage of junk.
Col reshared this.
A-Ho-Ho-Ho-aly BSC SSC
in reply to Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE • • •@TimWardCam @Sarahw @vfrmedia @Disputatore
I was always told that it takes about 15 mins of normal driving to put enough juice back into the battery that is used to start the car.
But the size and juice needed to start a car depends on the engine type. A small petrol takes far less than a larger diesel.
I replaced my battery at the start of last winter as it kept running flat after a week or or so of not being used. I'd bought that one when I got the car in 2018. It did have a 10yr warranty on it, but I'd moved 250 miles away from where I bought it... and didn't think the 500m round trip was worth saving £90. 🤔 😆
Col reshared this.
Yes I'm Antifa. Why Aren't U?
in reply to A-Ho-Ho-Ho-aly BSC SSC • • •@Anomnomnomaly
Most diesels have TWO batteries to provide the cranking power necessary to start the engine.
But newer batteries recharge faster, so that "15 minutes" number is probably out of date.
A-Ho-Ho-Ho-aly BSC SSC
in reply to Yes I'm Antifa. Why Aren't U? • • •@MugsysRapSheet
I've never owned a diesel with two batteries, but mine is 17yrs old now.
I do know that you can get lithium car batteries now, and those are much smaller and denser than regular batteries and can be placed vertically or horizontally... But they have a protection mode that means if they go flat, it's harder to get them to accept a charge... and as most newer cars have them... breakdown services are getting more call outs to get these cars going again than anything else.
John_Loader
in reply to A-Ho-Ho-Ho-aly BSC SSC • • •Col reshared this.
Matt Knight (KN6HTM)
in reply to Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE • • •Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE
in reply to Matt Knight (KN6HTM) • • •Bette
in reply to Matt Knight (KN6HTM) • • •@matt
Stepping in to say that I have a battery tender and it works great. I don't drive much so the battery tended to discharge. Now it doesn't.
@TimWardCam @Anomnomnomaly @Sarahw @vfrmedia @kibcol1049 @Disputatore
@stevewfolds
in reply to Matt Knight (KN6HTM) • • •@matt @TimWardCam @Anomnomnomaly @Sarahw @vfrmedia @Disputatore
Used a solid state pulse charger for 10+ years of battery maintenance. Car will be 26 y/o later this month. Try to take it out for a drive once a week.
Average mileage 4.5k miles/year. Plugs in via a weatherproof plug hood closed.
Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to @stevewfolds • • •@stevewfolds
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •I’ve considered 4-years to be a good run. Once discharged below cranking voltage, lead/acid batteries are usually past 50% of their life. I’ve lost a few to a small light left on. ‘Bump’ started several manual transmission vehicles by hand or a tow.
@stevewfolds
in reply to @stevewfolds • • •2nd summer hs school job was for a French foreign car mechanic in ‘65 in Greenwich, CT. Wrenched for fun & necessity ever since. Now relegated to a 10mm wrench for battery terminals.
A-Ho-Ho-Ho-aly BSC SSC
in reply to @stevewfolds • • •@stevewfolds @Disputatore @matt @TimWardCam @Sarahw @vfrmedia
I fill the car with fuel about every 6 weeks, not a full tank... it's currently about £1.37lt here and I but about £50-55 in each time.. occasionally that gives me a full tank if I've not used the car much.
But even though it's a turbo diesel and has gotten me in the low 50mpg range on a long run... I avg about 39-42mpg.
Given that my mileage has reduced dramatically since covid and working from home. A diesel
... show more@stevewfolds @Disputatore @matt @TimWardCam @Sarahw @vfrmedia
I fill the car with fuel about every 6 weeks, not a full tank... it's currently about £1.37lt here and I but about £50-55 in each time.. occasionally that gives me a full tank if I've not used the car much.
But even though it's a turbo diesel and has gotten me in the low 50mpg range on a long run... I avg about 39-42mpg.
Given that my mileage has reduced dramatically since covid and working from home. A diesel no longer makes sense... and since moving to a more rural location on the edge of a small town... most of my driving is local and the longest drives seem to be to a major towns 10-15 miles away, or more tourist towns 30 miles away because they have better shopping options for when it's getting closer to xmas and so forth.
So when I do replace the current car. It will be for a more efficient smaller turbo petrol engined one. Quite like the look of the 2018 Honda Civic (I do love my Japanese cars) and the 1lt turbo VTEC EX spec can be found with 40k on the clock for around £9000 in the 2017-18 models.
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Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to A-Ho-Ho-Ho-aly BSC SSC • • •Col reshared this.
cognitively accessible math
in reply to Matt Knight (KN6HTM) • • •David Penfold
in reply to A-Ho-Ho-Ho-aly BSC SSC • • •Col reshared this.
David Penfold
in reply to David Penfold • • •I'm also keeping a 20-year old X-Trail going for other stuff.
A-Ho-Ho-Ho-aly BSC SSC
in reply to David Penfold • • •@davep @Sarahw @vfrmedia @Disputatore
Brother in law bought a brand new Audi A2 in 2013 and still has it... It's the only new car he's ever bought and he loves it. The bluetooth has failed and the infotainment system is garbage... I was going to look and see if there's anything on the after makrket that can adapt the dash/screen to take a little headunit with all the modern features. A double DIN one would be idea.
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John_Loader
in reply to Sarah W • • •Col reshared this.
Col
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0mxgz…
EV drivers could face new tax in Budget
Damian Grammaticas (BBC News)Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to Col • • •"A government spokesperson told the BBC: "Fuel duty covers petrol and diesel, but there's no equivalent for electric vehicles. We want a fairer system for all drivers.""
Yes, I'm sure being fairer is on the top of their concerns. Ok, so the tax revenue from fuel consumption is going down. Have they done the math on the savings? Reduced oil and derivatives imports, reduced air and noise pollution, reduced health problems, and so on.
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Reddog
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Nae King! Nae quin! Nae Laird!
in reply to Reddog • •I which case it will be easy for the authorities to charge us by the mile driven!
Your message still holds true if you drop electric from it - All modern cars ........
Edited to add last sentence
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Gondor
in reply to Reddog • • •Erase "electric" and you are (still) right.
Schroedinger
in reply to Reddog • • •David Penfold
in reply to Schroedinger • • •Callisto
in reply to David Penfold • • •@davep @SteveClough @Reddog @Disputatore The point was that the sentence contained an adjective that's often a marker for inflammatory and climate-denying content.
the sentence should've read "All modern cars are tracked."
(Plus, if you have a phone you don't keep in a Faraday bag, you're being tracked anyway. The only difference is them knowing for certain when you're in your own vehicle vs someone else's.)
David Penfold
in reply to Callisto • • •@callisto @SteveClough @Reddog @Disputatore
I've got two Faraday bags 😁
Agree about the weird attribution to electric cars specifically.
John_Loader
in reply to Callisto • • •David Penfold
in reply to John_Loader • • •Callisto
in reply to David Penfold • • •Nope. Faraday bag, or leave it at home. Switching it off will probably keep random hackers away, but not the government. boingboing.net/2025/01/28/nsa-…
David Penfold
in reply to Callisto • • •I wonder if that would work with the likes of GrapheneOS that hasn't been hacked.
Bård H. (lvl 48 🇳🇴)
in reply to Callisto • • •Can still use it as a listening device if kept in a Faraday bag, though
If the device is tampered with, it may record conversations in the room, but it cannot transfer the recordings until the bag is removed
If sufficiently tampered with, it may also record conversations when it appears to be turned off as well
(Luckily, this kind of spying is expensive, so most of us boring people shouldn't worry about it)
@davep @John_Loader @SteveClough @Reddog @Disputatore @kibcol1049
Laux Myth (aka Martin)
in reply to Bård H. (lvl 48 🇳🇴) • • •To my reading, all you said may be true … ‘for now’. These sorts of things have a way of moving to be easier and what starts as a govt agency only spy trick sometimes becomes a ‘new feature’ by the company.
Bård H. (lvl 48 🇳🇴)
in reply to Laux Myth (aka Martin) • • •@lauxmyth
To use a phone as a recording device when it's turned off, "they" will have to either steal your phone in order to modify it mechanically and then return it before you notice, or "they" would need to swap it with one you couldn't tell apart from your own
Both is hard to do
But for registering your cars mileage for tax purposes, it's way easier to just ask the insurance company to add the tax to your bill
@callisto @davep @John_Loader @SteveClough @Reddog @Disputatore @kibcol1049
Laux Myth (aka Martin)
in reply to Bård H. (lvl 48 🇳🇴) • • •All true for now. (To the best of my casual technical knowledge.) I just know attacks never get worse and the state of the art in a decade may make some attacks which are tough now, routine then.
David Penfold
in reply to Laux Myth (aka Martin) • • •It's actually the opposite, the proof being the rising costs of Android and iPhone 0days.
Callisto
in reply to John_Loader • • •John_Loader
in reply to Callisto • • •Reddog
in reply to David Penfold • • •John_Loader
in reply to Reddog • • •A-Ho-Ho-Ho-aly BSC SSC
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •@Disputatore
The cars are huge data harvesting computers now, they send all your data back to the manufacturer... this can include location, and if you connect a phone... contacts, call details and message content.
It won;t be hard for this data to be 'provided' to the govt for tax purposes and then there's the annual MOT test after 3yrs that records the vehicle mileage and is publicly accessible if you have the car number plate.
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Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to A-Ho-Ho-Ho-aly BSC SSC • • •Col reshared this.
A-Ho-Ho-Ho-aly BSC SSC
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •They'll make an exemption, change a law here or there. It's what authoritarian, fascist loving govts do to keep the peons in line and suffering whilst they transfer the countries wealth to those that line their pockets.
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Cogito Ergo Disputo
in reply to A-Ho-Ho-Ho-aly BSC SSC • • •Col reshared this.
A-Ho-Ho-Ho-aly BSC SSC
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •@Disputatore
The tories and reform have gone so far to the extreme right (think trump supporting, only 5% less evil types) that they've dragged the formerly left leaning Labour party so far with them, that Labour in the UK are now a right wing party like the tories of 15yrs ago.
Reform are just a bunch of rebranded National Front racists.
The Liberal Democrats are still in the centre... it's the green party, the Scottish National Party and Plaid Cymru that are elading the charge for left leaning people driven policies.
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John_Loader
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •⊥ᵒᵚ Cᵸᵎᶺᵋᶫ∸ᵒᵘ ☑️
in reply to Cogito Ergo Disputo • • •Not gonna happen. Whole idea is crap. Just raise road tax that all cars have to pay
Col reshared this.
Andy Fletcher
in reply to Col • • •To be completely honest I don't have any real objection to a mileage charge. It will benefit people who don't drive much whilst hitting those who drive long distances.
No real difference in effect to petrol/diesel duty charges.
The only real issue will be how they work out your driving distances.
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Urban Camera
in reply to Andy Fletcher • • •@X31Andy
It'll be easy once you have your digital IDs.
@kibcol1049
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Col
Unknown parent • • •Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK
Unknown parent • • •@jstatepost @Disputatore there's already a lot of older EVs on the roads which do not send this data to a central point, after which it would only be captured at yearly MOT testing (compulsory inspection) and that data isn't infallible.
It would have made far more sense to simply increase VED for EVs by a fixed amount, it *will* still be unpopular and set back wider adoption of EVs (as there are already many other issues preventing this) but at least folk will know upfront what the potential costs are and it wouldn't feed all the paranoia that Reform will try to capitalise on.
Its now more likely lower income folk are going to stubbornly hold on to petrol and diesel vehicles until the fuel itself becomes hard to get (which might not happen for decades)
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Col
in reply to Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK • • •Nae King! Nae quin! Nae Laird!
in reply to Col • •Why should I as an EV driver have to subsidise an industry Burning Planet, why do I have to SHELL out to keep their profits high? We need to MOBILise!
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Col
in reply to Nae King! Nae quin! Nae Laird! • • •Nae King! Nae quin! Nae Laird! likes this.
Jonathan Smith
Unknown parent • • •Col
Unknown parent • • •PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
in reply to Col • • •Col reshared this.
Nae King! Nae quin! Nae Laird!
in reply to PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼 • •like this
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PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
in reply to Nae King! Nae quin! Nae Laird! • • •Nae King! Nae quin! Nae Laird! likes this.
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Nick
in reply to PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼 • • •Col reshared this.
Nae King! Nae quin! Nae Laird!
in reply to Nick • •Col likes this.
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PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
in reply to Nick • • •Col reshared this.
Nick
in reply to PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼 • • •Col reshared this.
PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
in reply to Nick • • •Bård H. (lvl 48 🇳🇴)
in reply to PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼 • • •@PaulNickson
Most EVs are charged over night at home, so that doesn't really work the same way as with gas
In Norway we changed all that
Since the insurance companies already register how many km your car goes annually, we simply delegated the whole tax collection job to them instead 🙃
Nick
in reply to Col • • •Col reshared this.
Denis Buckley
Unknown parent • • •It's about gum'mint tryin't make up for falling receipts from Fuel Duty as we convert from fossil to sunshine. That's what they do. We all gotta pay somewhere, somehow.
T A X... T H E... RICH
M O R E !
sysfrank 🇺🇸
in reply to Col • • •In our state, (Kentucky), they added a surcharge to our vehicle property taxes if you have a hybrid or electric vehicle. They figured that it was too much work to collect mileages and everybody would lie, cheat, and roll their odometers back. So, they just go by your VIN number. $126/yr for each car, $63 for electric motorcycles. With our two hybrids, that's about the money we save on fuel. Blows a major incentive on hybrids.
The joke here is that all-electric vehicles actually run on coal. Most of Kentucky's electric power (68%) comes from coal-fired plants.
Nae King! Nae quin! Nae Laird!
in reply to sysfrank 🇺🇸 • •The anti-EVers in the UK used to throw that at EV vehicles, they can't anymore as we have no coal powered generation now!
At least your hybrids aren't adding as much pollution as the ICE cars to the coal power station pollution!
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Julian Schwarzenbach
in reply to sysfrank 🇺🇸 • • •John_Loader
in reply to Julian Schwarzenbach • • •PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
Unknown parent • • •PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
in reply to PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼 • • •PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
Unknown parent • • •Ariaflame
in reply to PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼 • • •PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
Unknown parent • • •Rupert V/
in reply to PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼 • • •PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
in reply to Rupert V/ • • •Rupert V/
in reply to PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼 • • •C++ Wage Slave
in reply to Col • • •They've already whacked up vehicle excuse duty for electric cars. There's a letter on my desk, asking me to pay £195 for the next twelve months. Now this as well? For environmental reasons, we've shifted almost all our mileage from Mrs Wife's petrol car to our #EV, so this'll cost us about £500 a year.
If you #tax something, you get less of it. Does the government want to #decarbonise transport or not?
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PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
in reply to Rupert V/ • • •Col
in reply to PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼 • • •PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
in reply to Col • • •Col reshared this.
PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
Unknown parent • • •NormanDunbar
in reply to PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼 • • •PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
in reply to NormanDunbar • • •PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
in reply to PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼 • • •NormanDunbar
in reply to PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼 • • •@PaulNickson @rupert @epistatacadam They are the worst invention ever! Putting a rubber based belt, inside and engine, covered in hot oil? Not good.
You need to hope the previous owner was clinical in changing the oil at the recommended intervals and with the correct grade too. Losing the belt can be expensive. 😟
Sorry to be such a bad news bastard.
PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
in reply to NormanDunbar • • •NormanDunbar
in reply to PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼 • • •@PaulNickson @rupert @epistatacadam
How come your replies don't get a mention in my mentions/favourite/etc timeline I wonder?
Cars in the 70s and 80s were crap! Three years lifespan, if you were lucky. Nothing much got to 100k. Service every 10 minutes or 3 miles, whichever was soonest. And rust! 😉
PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
Unknown parent • • •NormanDunbar
in reply to PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼 • • •@PaulNickson @rupert @epistatacadam There are some that die horribly at 30k. Even if you catch them before they snap, but after they start losing bits, they take out your oil pump, water pump, and other bits inside the engine.
If they do snap, goodbye engine, as you note.
PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
Unknown parent • • •Lynn McAlister UE
in reply to PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼 • • •PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
Unknown parent • • •PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
Unknown parent • • •John Robinson
in reply to PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼 • • •Frantic 🇬🇧 + 🇪🇺
Unknown parent • • •PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
in reply to Frantic 🇬🇧 + 🇪🇺 • • •PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
in reply to NormanDunbar • • •@NormanDunbar @rupert @epistatacadam I agree. Build and paint quality were the pits back then. That Avenger eventually got eaten by rust. Sills were the favourite weak point.
Don’t know why my replies don’t appear on your t/l. Maybe they’re not interesting enough according to Mastodon.
72mz
in reply to Frantic 🇬🇧 + 🇪🇺 • • •In lieu of gas taxes, vehicles should be taxed based on weight. More weight, more road damage.
AaronDavid
Unknown parent • • •Col
Unknown parent • • •Lee from Colorado
in reply to 72mz • • •@72mz @frantictdrinker @epistatacadam @ariaflame @PaulNickson
And most horrifically, road damage goes up by the *4th* power of weight.
So a vehicle that weighs twice as much causes *16* times the damage.
(en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_p…)
rule in construction methods
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Ben Aveling
in reply to Col • • •@kibcol1049 @pthane @NormanDunbar @PaulNickson @rupert @epistatacadam
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Mike 🇬🇧 🇪🇺
in reply to Frantic 🇬🇧 + 🇪🇺 • • •A levy on the mileage at the time of sale - the mileage is optionally recorded on the V5 (?) when it's sent back to DVLA - make this compulsary and calculate the bill for 3 years of ownership (possibly payable in installments)
PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
Unknown parent • • •NormanDunbar
in reply to PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼 • • •PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
Unknown parent • • •Poloniousmonk
in reply to Rupert V/ • • •@rupert @PaulNickson @epistatacadam
80s joke:
What's the difference between a porcupine and a Porsche?
The Porsche has the pricks on the inside.
BashStKid
in reply to Rupert V/ • • •@rupert @PaulNickson @epistatacadam I didn’t know that. Ouch.
Would that be roughly the same trend for tyre wear and consequent microplastics, I wonder? Or does it also factor in the tyre contact area?
PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
in reply to BashStKid • • •A-Ho-Ho-Ho-aly BSC SSC
in reply to Col • • •I'm actually ok with this... the more you drive the more you pay. EV owners are still polluting the areas they drive in through increased wear and tear from things like tyres and brake debris (due to the much heavier vehicles) and these are washed into waterways and drainage systems that make their way to water treatment plants and are difficult to remove.
But road taxes are supposed to be used for transport and the majority of them are not.
That makes me more angry than some EV owners complaining about having to pay more after getting a free ride for so long.
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David Penfold
in reply to A-Ho-Ho-Ho-aly BSC SSC • • •Col reshared this.
John_Loader
in reply to A-Ho-Ho-Ho-aly BSC SSC • • •Col reshared this.
wauz ワウズ
in reply to NormanDunbar • • •@NormanDunbar
In the later 70ies there was actually a big problem with corrosion. It was caused by poor recycling of cars. In the midst of the 70ies, a great mass of 60ies cars got abandoned, and the scrapyards started to simply shredder them. So copper and silicone (from window panes) got into steel production. Sheets were cheap, and lasted not long, bc inter-cristalline corrosion made them crumble like cookies.
@PaulNickson @rupert @epistatacadam @kibcol1049
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PortabelloBelle🚚🇪🇺🏳️⚧️
in reply to Col • • •Based on £0.03 per mile.
I bought my car new at the end of June 2024.
Yesterday it did its 8000th mile
8000 x £0.03 = £240.00
This compares favourably with the £195 road fund licence I paid back in June
195/12 compared with 240/16.
My car is a self charging hybrid, on a tank of petrol I can cover 600+ miles, and according to the onboard computer approximately 1/3 of those miles are covered using electric which the car generated for itself.
Clearly, as things stand, I pay road fund licence, and fuel duty plus the actual cost of the fuel.
I'm fairly certain that overall, I'd be paying less to drive an all electric car.
The only thing that now stands in the way of my buying one is the purchase price.
Of course, I will retire before I am ready to buy a new car, and so I'm probably already driving the last car I'll own.
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Huntn00
in reply to PortabelloBelle🚚🇪🇺🏳️⚧️ • • •Lynn McAlister UE
in reply to PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼 • • •Poloniousmonk
in reply to Lynn McAlister UE • • •I'm pretty sure everywhere in the US uses asphalt rather than concrete because of corruption. It's not just the plutocrats earning off the contracts, the perpetual maintenance provides a lot of union jobs.
Ariaflame
in reply to Lee from Colorado • • •NormanDunbar
in reply to wauz ワウズ • • •Col reshared this.
John_Loader
in reply to Lynn McAlister UE • • •wauz ワウズ
in reply to NormanDunbar • • •We had an Opel Rekord D-series, as family car. It was great to ride. We traveled from Stuttgart to Thessaloniki with it. But my father had the feeling, he should sell it. That was right in time. From the beautiful D-series are only few survivors made in Autumn 1973. Also very nice Renault R4 from 1975 to 1980 are no single specimen left. It wasn't the construction itself. That didn't change much from 1961 to 1994. The problem was the sheet metal.
@PaulNickson @rupert @epistatacadam @kibcol1049
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wauz ワウズ
in reply to wauz ワウズ • • •Opel Rekord D-series sedan was the most beautiful of all Rekord models (imo).
@PaulNickson @rupert @epistatacadam @kibcol1049
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Lynn McAlister UE
in reply to John_Loader • • •Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK
in reply to PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼 • • •@PaulNickson @NormanDunbar @rupert @epistatacadam
for VW/Audi timing belts, make sure they are inspected and changed if necessary (VW used to suggest as often as every 5 years, although the interval is slightly longer now).
DSG/S-Tronic gearbox is excellent when it works (all my cars have had it) but hassle when it doesn't.
DQ200 pressure accumulator can crack leading to strange behaviour (if you get "D" with no gear number when driving and not in any "eco" mode this can be a sign of it), its fixable but about £600 including labour and you usually need a specialist garage (mechatronics needs to be *fully* depressurised or it will yeet the accumulator across the workshop)
DQ250 'box needs oil change every 40 000 miles, costs about £250.
NormanDunbar
Unknown parent • • •Grinch-O-Matic
in reply to NormanDunbar • • •@NormanDunbar @PaulNickson @rupert @epistatacadam
Wet timing belts are possibly the dumbest thing since Ze Germans decided to put the cam timing on the BACK of the engine. Service means engine-out. But at least those are chains, not belts that will get crumbly well before the end of life of the engine (glares at Ford).
Wet belts are the result of relentless cost-cutting as it's cheaper to have a wet belt that does not need seals and covers, and it will most likely fail out of warranty.
PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
Unknown parent • • •Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK
in reply to PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼 • • •@PaulNickson @NormanDunbar @rupert @epistatacadam
lower power engines (1,2 / 1,4 L ) with a 7 speed 'box generally have DQ200, performance models have the DQ250 ( 6 speed) or DQ381 (7 speed)
I had mechatronic pressure accumulator replaced on my 2015 VW Polo (with DQ200) in 2022, thankfully DQ250 on my current car (VW Golf GTI) is behaving (they are more robust provided the gearbox oil is regularly changed).
In fact the gearbox part itself is quite solid, its the mechatronic which tends to act up.
It *is* possible to change both mechatronic and gearbox oil on a DQ200, even though VW/Audi claim that its "sealed for life" (if the accumulator has to be replaced the mechatronic oil must be changed anyway)
(there's more info at link below)
eco-torque.co.uk/blogs/news/va…
VAG DSG & S-Tronic Mechatronics — Complete Guide to Versions, Symptoms & Faults
Steven Kay (Eco Torque)PaulNickson 🕊️🎛️🎼
in reply to Alex@rtnVFRmedia Suffolk UK • • •David Penfold
Unknown parent • • •@pthane @John_Loader @Disputatore @gareth @Sarahw @vfrmedia
Here's the EVE storage cells for a 16s 16-17kWh battery. You'd need a BMS and various sundries too. They have resellers with EU stock that doesn't cost an arm and a leg in shipping.
alibaba.com/x/1l9z9ot?ck=pdp
David Penfold
in reply to David Penfold • • •Gerardo Lisboa
in reply to Col • • •Col reshared this.
Gerardo Lisboa
in reply to Gerardo Lisboa • • •