In an effort to gain ~~votes from moderates and republicans~~ campaign contributions from billionaires
(Not even a dig, just the economic reality of modern campaign finance. What do you do, as a progressive running against a fascist, if you’re offered a chance to 10x your reach, and “all you have to do” is downplay your most controversial positions?)
The thing is that they do not simply stop saying what they supposedly believe, they work towards policies that aren't in the interests of their voters.
Joe Biden changed nothing. Even if Kamala Harris won, nothing would have changed. Without changes people like Trump will always be able to win elections. So until the democratic party is willing to bring some real changes, I say let things fall fast, then something new can be built without the Republicans or democrats.
Joe Biden continued disregarding the CDC with regards to COVID
His administration repeatedly said that the pandemic was over, you don't need to wear masks anymore, you can go back to work, and then Omicron happened. None of that was at any point ever true. Biden himself caught COVID during the very press release he gave to say COVID was over in September of 2022! COVID/Long COVID are still billable conditions in hospitals; doesn't sound very "over" to me! Everyone is always sick. They sell 4-in-1 swab tests OTC at pharmacies now. Is it really over? "Back to normal" happened with his administration's blessings in 2022, and that playbook was primed as early as the second year of the pandemic in 2021, under Biden. Now no one cares about the most communicable disease in history that shows no evidence of ever being cleared, has no cure, and is still spreading and mutating to be vaccine-avoidant like a wildfire, not just the anti-vaccination crowd. Tons of opportunistic viruses re-emerge with new outbreaks of one terrible thing or another spreading e
... show more
Joe Biden continued disregarding the CDC with regards to COVID
His administration repeatedly said that the pandemic was over, you don't need to wear masks anymore, you can go back to work, and then Omicron happened. None of that was at any point ever true. Biden himself caught COVID during the very press release he gave to say COVID was over in September of 2022! COVID/Long COVID are still billable conditions in hospitals; doesn't sound very "over" to me! Everyone is always sick. They sell 4-in-1 swab tests OTC at pharmacies now. Is it really over? "Back to normal" happened with his administration's blessings in 2022, and that playbook was primed as early as the second year of the pandemic in 2021, under Biden. Now no one cares about the most communicable disease in history that shows no evidence of ever being cleared, has no cure, and is still spreading and mutating to be vaccine-avoidant like a wildfire, not just the anti-vaccination crowd. Tons of opportunistic viruses re-emerge with new outbreaks of one terrible thing or another spreading every year because people are wrecking their immune systems catching COVID over and over and over, even while vaccinated. All of that happened during the Biden years. All of that continues to happen because the good blue man said we could go to the movies again. He is culpable.
shut your gringo ass up you ballotmunching Uncle Tom freak
demanding that the opposition not trail the right-wing on every single talking point and give a single fuck about the lives that the so-called US would continue to destroy beyond its borders is not accelerationism or 'whiteness'.
when non-'United' SStateSSians have to listen to you about your fucking 'damage control' instead of actually doing anything you sound like two SS officers bickering over how painful our torment should be. we don't fucking care about your comfort you imperial hog.
the collapse of US soft power institutions under Trump has been a fucking godsend for the rest of us trying to actually improve our nations.
shut your gringo ass up you ballotmunching Uncle Tom freak
demanding that the opposition not trail the right-wing on every single talking point and give a single fuck about the lives that the so-called US would continue to destroy beyond its borders is not accelerationism or 'whiteness'.
when non-'United' SStateSSians have to listen to you about your fucking 'damage control' instead of actually doing anything you sound like two SS officers bickering over how painful our torment should be. we don't fucking care about your comfort you imperial hog.
the collapse of US soft power institutions under Trump has been a fucking godsend for the rest of us trying to actually improve our nations.
Ok but the US has a first past the post system so regardless of how you feel about it, abstaining or voting third party in any general election is a vote for the republican candidate. That's the reality. So unless you're voting for the Dem candidate you are tacitly condoning the republican candidate. That's the reality, full stop. So unless you've voted Dem, you have explicitly voted for this. It doesn't really matter what you think about it, that's how it actually fucking works.
You know, people are allowed to do things even if the lesser of two evils is elected. They can protest(more freely) to demand change. Now they are just shot. Whatever people planned to do of Trump won, they could do of Trump lost.
Yes, like those Palestine protests in 2024 that were so gladly welcomed by the liberal establishment. Those protesters were absolutely not decried as useful idiots, Russian trolls or both. Stop kidding yourself. Regarding imperialism specifically like 80% (random guess) of the US gargles fucking MIC balls when it's democrats at the helm.
Trump and the destruction of democracy and nuclear proliferation and more maga lifetime judge appointments is the better alternative for the next 4 years?
That's only tangentially related to what I was saying, but for people living outside the imperial core, yes. MAGA is the biggest existential threat to the US in more a century and I'm not exactly going to cry about it. I'm not happy that it had to come to this, but y'all (assuming you're American) have nobody to blame but yourselves. Death to America.
Well I'm pretty sure everyone on this platform is considered a domestic terrorist now because of NSPM-7. I'm still not going to vote for liberals or Zionists. I'd rather die fighting.
I see where you're coming from, but "let things fall fast" is playing right into the hands of capital. Times of crisis aren't storms to be waiting out; they're opportunities for radical organization and action.
As long as you realize that radical action means changing the top brass among the democrats. There needs to be a viable plan for that happen. while there is some movement in that direction, changes are too slow, it is better for things to fall fast.
As long as you realize that radical action means changing the top brass among the democrats.
Nope, it means creating parallel workers' organizations that don't rely on bourgeois political systems. Expecting lasting change from bourgeois politics is a fool's errand no matter who is in charge.
The meme mentions this like it's a Democrat issue, but Republicans do the same thing.
For example, Trump disavowed Project 2025 policies as too extreme, but then obviously followed them very closely.
The issue is election winners are almost always the one with >50% popular support. So candidates are incentivized to align their policies with those of the median voter. This persists across different voting systems, so rebuilding it for that reason may not help.
But you can still elect a progressive by voting for them in the primary election (where they can be more authentic) or if the median voter becomes more progressive (more progressives vote).
No, organize in orgs like PSL. Nobody is suggesting voting for the GOP, but instead realizing voting cannot fix a fundamentally broken system, and that it needs to be replaced.
Ok but the US has a first past the post system so regardless of how you feel about it, abstaining or voting third party in any general election is a vote for the republican candidate. That's the reality. So unless you're voting for the Dem candidate you are tacitly condoning the republican candidate. That's the reality, full stop. So unless you've voted Dem, you have explicitly voted for this. It doesn't really matter what you think about it, that's how it actually fucking works.
No, that's not how first past the post works. Voting third party is a vote for third party, not for the GOP nor DNC, as neither represents me. You're assuming my vote would be for the DNC by default for your math, but that's not correct, I condemn both the GOP and DNC. That's the reality, and it doesn't matter what fuzzy logic you use to justify what you believe.
Congratulations, you both don't understand the fundamental non viability of third parties as well as the spoiler effect. Your refusal to engage with the system as it functions has resulted in maga taking power. This is your fault, regardless of your self enlightened bullshit.
I understand the spoiler effect, but since neither party represents me in any capacity, there's nothing to spoil. PSL represents me. I also understand that it's impossible for a working class party to win, currently, so I actually organize politically in real life, year-round, not just voting once in a while and talking online. MAGA took power because the US Empire is declining, and the DNC is incapable of representing the working classes, so there has been a rightward shift.
Even if every single third-party voter voted Harris in every state, she still would have lost. Nothing you claimed is true in any capacity.
Do you have any evidence whatsoever that I'm either Russian or a bot? I'm a Statesian communist, accusing me of being a spooky scary foreigner and dehumanizing me for disagreeing with you is low.
Can you elaborate? Is being a communist "Russian state propaganda?" I don't think I've ever even linked RT to make a point. Do you have any evidence of this, or is this just an accusation you hurl when confronted by someone to your left?
Ain't my fault it's fucked, but it is your fault if you don't know how it actually works. You primary with candidates running on election reform and you eventually get it, ask all the states that have pulled it off. But Americans won't learn to read to pass an open book test.
Voting vs other actions isn't a dichotomy - you can vote for the lesser evil to buy time, AND do the things that will make a real and lasting impact.
In our current system though, red team vs blue IS a dichotomy - using your vote you can nudge the counter a tiny bit closer to one side or the other; or opt out / vote third, which both equate to doing nothing and letting you're countrymen choose for you, but the potential results are the same: red or blue.
So, you can use your vote however you want, but I'd recommend pitching that nudge away from the more blatant Nazis. ...but also build those guillotines for use against hostile actors regardless of party.
What folks 100% should NOT do though is vote and then consider their 'civic duty' satisfied, which is ofc the sentiment OP is aimed at.
Voting for a different party of genocidal imperialists doesn't actually buy time to organize, though. Both parties fund ICE, both wage war on the global south, both are actively against worker organization that stands to threaten the system they both stand for.
I personally do not care if someone votes, as long as they are also organizing. If someone is only engaged with politics via voting, then they have no leg to stand on when others advocate for voting third party and organizing in real life. If someone organizes and happens to vote DNC, I really could not care less, they can do that as long as they actually participate in party building.
It's over for establishment Dems in my eyes. I refuse to vote for any candidate that is a Zionist or a liberal. I voted for them my whole life and this is where it got me. I'd rather not vote and let MAGA destroy this country than allow those snakes into office again.
They aren't just going to destroy this country, they're going to bring a holocaust here to the U.S. I hope you're proud of yourself for taking a stand though. You and every other purist who can't be bothered to vote because the candidate doesn't support exactly what you believe in are responsible for this mess.
Lol, please. I'm supposed to vote for the people that cozy up to the billionaire class, support imperialism, aren't even all that opposed to our current fascism, and fully support a current genocide? I surely won't lose any sleep for my non-vote. Put up progressives or GTFO.
Man, that's some overtly defeatists stance. There still is time to stop them. There are people out there willing to die, to stop the worse from happening.
At the very least give them some support.
Seriously, what's with democrats and their "well I told you so, my work ends here, see ya" position?
The democrats are owned by Israel and the same Zionist billionaires but any time I bring up this easily provable fact people always freak out and mob because I’m saying both sides are bad. It’s literally the facts trackaipac.com/congress
Wow, you'd think I threatened to kill someone with my comments being removed. Mods around lemmy are idiots. I hate this place sometimes. Ya'll are no better than reddit.
kibiz0r
in reply to 白浆领主 • • •In an effort to gain ~~votes from moderates and republicans~~ campaign contributions from billionaires
(Not even a dig, just the economic reality of modern campaign finance. What do you do, as a progressive running against a fascist, if you’re offered a chance to 10x your reach, and “all you have to do” is downplay your most controversial positions?)
(Edit: Quotes around “all you have to do”)
ea6927d8
in reply to kibiz0r • • •kibiz0r
in reply to ea6927d8 • • •Oh yeah, the rest of the meme still 100% applies.
You know the four most ~~expensive~~ dangerous words in the English language, right? “This time it’s different”.
MrErr
in reply to 白浆领主 • • •like this
OfCourseNot and NoneOfUrBusiness like this.
Skullgrid
in reply to MrErr • • •really? Joe Biden continued disregarding the CDC with regards to COVID and a zillion other things he did different to trump?
like this
Azathoth likes this.
mononoke
in reply to Skullgrid • • •
... show moreHis administration repeatedly said that the pandemic was over, you don't need to wear masks anymore, you can go back to work, and then Omicron happened. None of that was at any point ever true. Biden himself caught COVID during the very press release he gave to say COVID was over in September of 2022! COVID/Long COVID are still billable conditions in hospitals; doesn't sound very "over" to me! Everyone is always sick. They sell 4-in-1 swab tests OTC at pharmacies now. Is it really over? "Back to normal" happened with his administration's blessings in 2022, and that playbook was primed as early as the second year of the pandemic in 2021, under Biden. Now no one cares about the most communicable disease in history that shows no evidence of ever being cleared, has no cure, and is still spreading and mutating to be vaccine-avoidant like a wildfire, not just the anti-vaccination crowd. Tons of opportunistic viruses re-emerge with new outbreaks of one terrible thing or another spreading e
His administration repeatedly said that the pandemic was over, you don't need to wear masks anymore, you can go back to work, and then Omicron happened. None of that was at any point ever true. Biden himself caught COVID during the very press release he gave to say COVID was over in September of 2022! COVID/Long COVID are still billable conditions in hospitals; doesn't sound very "over" to me! Everyone is always sick. They sell 4-in-1 swab tests OTC at pharmacies now. Is it really over? "Back to normal" happened with his administration's blessings in 2022, and that playbook was primed as early as the second year of the pandemic in 2021, under Biden. Now no one cares about the most communicable disease in history that shows no evidence of ever being cleared, has no cure, and is still spreading and mutating to be vaccine-avoidant like a wildfire, not just the anti-vaccination crowd. Tons of opportunistic viruses re-emerge with new outbreaks of one terrible thing or another spreading every year because people are wrecking their immune systems catching COVID over and over and over, even while vaccinated. All of that happened during the Biden years. All of that continues to happen because the good blue man said we could go to the movies again. He is culpable.
like this
NoneOfUrBusiness likes this.
Skullgrid
in reply to mononoke • • •what are your current daily covid prevention steps?
EDIT : And are you sure you want to claim that Biden's covid plan is as bad as "shove lightbulbs up your ass, wash down horse de-wormer with bleach"?
nexguy
in reply to MrErr • • •"I say let things fall fast"
You must not be in the crosshairs of the Trump regime... yet.
like this
Azathoth likes this.
edible_funk
in reply to nexguy • • •onoira [they/them]
in reply to edible_funk • • •shut your gringo ass up you ballotmunching Uncle Tom freak
demanding that the opposition not trail the right-wing on every single talking point and give a single fuck about the lives that the so-called US would continue to destroy beyond its borders is not accelerationism or 'whiteness'.
when non-'United' SStateSSians have to listen to you about your fucking 'damage control' instead of actually doing anything you sound like two SS officers bickering over how painful our torment should be. we don't fucking care about your comfort you imperial hog.
the collapse of US soft power institutions under Trump has been a fucking godsend for the rest of us trying to actually improve our nations.
stop running DARVO for your abuser and find a healthier relationship with politics.
shut your gringo ass up you ballotmunching Uncle Tom freak
demanding that the opposition not trail the right-wing on every single talking point and give a single fuck about the lives that the so-called US would continue to destroy beyond its borders is not accelerationism or 'whiteness'.
when non-'United' SStateSSians have to listen to you about your fucking 'damage control' instead of actually doing anything you sound like two SS officers bickering over how painful our torment should be. we don't fucking care about your comfort you imperial hog.
the collapse of US soft power institutions under Trump has been a fucking godsend for the rest of us trying to actually improve our nations.
stop running DARVO for your abuser and find a healthier relationship with politics.
edible_funk
2026-01-30 16:21:35
like this
NoneOfUrBusiness likes this.
nexguy
in reply to onoira [they/them] • • •NoneOfUrBusiness
in reply to nexguy • • •Yes, like those Palestine protests in 2024 that were so gladly welcomed by the liberal establishment. Those protesters were absolutely not decried as useful idiots, Russian trolls or both. Stop kidding yourself. Regarding imperialism specifically like 80% (random guess) of the US gargles fucking MIC balls when it's democrats at the helm.
nexguy
in reply to NoneOfUrBusiness • • •NoneOfUrBusiness
in reply to nexguy • • •onoira [they/them]
in reply to nexguy • • •Tempus Fugit
in reply to nexguy • • •NoneOfUrBusiness
in reply to MrErr • • •MrErr
in reply to NoneOfUrBusiness • • •NoneOfUrBusiness
in reply to MrErr • • •Nope, it means creating parallel workers' organizations that don't rely on bourgeois political systems. Expecting lasting change from bourgeois politics is a fool's errand no matter who is in charge.
MrErr
in reply to NoneOfUrBusiness • • •iceonfire1
in reply to 白浆领主 • • •The meme mentions this like it's a Democrat issue, but Republicans do the same thing.
For example, Trump disavowed Project 2025 policies as too extreme, but then obviously followed them very closely.
The issue is election winners are almost always the one with >50% popular support. So candidates are incentivized to align their policies with those of the median voter. This persists across different voting systems, so rebuilding it for that reason may not help.
But you can still elect a progressive by voting for them in the primary election (where they can be more authentic) or if the median voter becomes more progressive (more progressives vote).
like this
Azathoth, massive_bereavement and Atelopus-zeteki like this.
commie
in reply to iceonfire1 • • •he didn't stop trum from getting elected to a second term
edit: somehow responded to the wrong comment. whoops
NoneOfUrBusiness
in reply to iceonfire1 • • •*The median donor. The median voter is way to the left of your average Dem politician.
Skullgrid
in reply to 白浆领主 • • •like this
Azathoth and Atelopus-zeteki like this.
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to Skullgrid • • •Home Page - Party for Socialism and Liberation
PSLedible_funk
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to edible_funk • • •edible_funk
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to edible_funk • • •I understand the spoiler effect, but since neither party represents me in any capacity, there's nothing to spoil. PSL represents me. I also understand that it's impossible for a working class party to win, currently, so I actually organize politically in real life, year-round, not just voting once in a while and talking online. MAGA took power because the US Empire is declining, and the DNC is incapable of representing the working classes, so there has been a rightward shift.
Even if every single third-party voter voted Harris in every state, she still would have lost. Nothing you claimed is true in any capacity.
edible_funk
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to edible_funk • • •edible_funk
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to edible_funk • • •onoira [they/them]
in reply to edible_funk • • •oh i was told by one of your 'republicans' that it's actually a vote for 'democrat'.
three votes for the price of one? third-parties sound pretty powerful.
fake ass electoral system.
edible_funk
in reply to onoira [they/them] • • •Sterile_Technique
in reply to Cowbee [he/they] • • •Voting vs other actions isn't a dichotomy - you can vote for the lesser evil to buy time, AND do the things that will make a real and lasting impact.
In our current system though, red team vs blue IS a dichotomy - using your vote you can nudge the counter a tiny bit closer to one side or the other; or opt out / vote third, which both equate to doing nothing and letting you're countrymen choose for you, but the potential results are the same: red or blue.
So, you can use your vote however you want, but I'd recommend pitching that nudge away from the more blatant Nazis. ...but also build those guillotines for use against hostile actors regardless of party.
What folks 100% should NOT do though is vote and then consider their 'civic duty' satisfied, which is ofc the sentiment OP is aimed at.
Cowbee [he/they]
in reply to Sterile_Technique • • •Voting for a different party of genocidal imperialists doesn't actually buy time to organize, though. Both parties fund ICE, both wage war on the global south, both are actively against worker organization that stands to threaten the system they both stand for.
I personally do not care if someone votes, as long as they are also organizing. If someone is only engaged with politics via voting, then they have no leg to stand on when others advocate for voting third party and organizing in real life. If someone organizes and happens to vote DNC, I really could not care less, they can do that as long as they actually participate in party building.
Spacehooks
in reply to Skullgrid • • •Why let the lesser evil win when we could have the bbeg? Commit to servitude on the most evil!
/s
Tempus Fugit
in reply to 白浆领主 • • •like this
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NocturnalMorning
in reply to Tempus Fugit • • •Tempus Fugit
in reply to NocturnalMorning • • •NocturnalMorning
in reply to Tempus Fugit • • •Tempus Fugit
in reply to NocturnalMorning • • •0_o7
in reply to NocturnalMorning • • •Man, that's some overtly defeatists stance. There still is time to stop them. There are people out there willing to die, to stop the worse from happening.
At the very least give them some support.
Seriously, what's with democrats and their "well I told you so, my work ends here, see ya" position?
Formfiller
in reply to 白浆领主 • • •Track Your Congressmembers' Connections to the Israel Lobby — Track AIPAC
Track AIPAClike this
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Grail
in reply to 白浆领主 • • •tlekiteki
in reply to 白浆领主 • • •Ryanmiller70
in reply to 白浆领主 • • •NocturnalMorning
in reply to 白浆领主 • • •