What do we call the Lemmy/Kbin Universe?
The lemmyverse sounds perfect, but it ignores alternatives like kbin etc. It would be better if we didn't end up with the situation we have with Mastodon where people assume Mastodon is the fediverse.
So, what do we call this little niche in the fediverse?
Communiverse? FediGroups?
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jax
in reply to Ada • • •I would just call it the fediverse to be honest. Technically they all federate content, and I could respond to this post from Mastodon or Lemmy and it just works.
I think people referring to Mastodon as the fediverse is kind of similar to someone saying "the reddit for " instead of "'s sub-reddit", if that makes sense?
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ScarletCoconut
in reply to Ada • • •I think sticking with fediverse works, while Lemmy and Kbin can be referred to by name, or together as AP (ActivityPub) “voting forums” or “link aggregators” as a category.
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jax
in reply to Ada • • •As a “replacement” for Reddit (I think that moniker is selling it short, it can be so much more), it makes sense. Reddit and sites like it, depending on the specific community are really just a place to share content from outside sources and discuss that content with a like-minded community.
The other type of subreddit I’ve see are tech support style where someone is asking a question of a group of people who are likely to have a good understanding of the subject matter. I think link-aggregation-style sites are the best interface for these at the moment as well.
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jax
in reply to maegul (he/they) • • •I would agree with you... except that Reddit has always been referred to a link aggregator (and forum) since I've used it. It's a bit of both.
The problem is that there isn't really an over-arching name that you can call these services because they are all pretty distinct in their feature sets. Lemmy and kbin get grouped together often, but kbin also has microblogging capabilities which sets it apart from both Lemmy and Reddit.
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maegul (he/they)
in reply to jax • • •Ha yea ... the elephant in the room is that we probably just want to define ourselves as "Not-Mastodon".
Even though /kbin is a fusion of platform formats (which I think is awesome BTW), the underlying common factor is the primary basis of connecting or socialising.
IN the case of reddit/lemmy/kbin/link aggregators etc ... it's subject matters and interests, not direct person-to-person social connections (which aren't even possible on lemmy). It's a significant difference IMO, and well worth trying to package in a memorable catchphrase or term. I just don't know what it'd be (my best idea being "threadiverse", which doesn't capture this idea at all really).
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jax
in reply to maegul (he/they) • • •Yeah, I'd love to setup a /kbin instance at some point, it seems pretty nice.
Yeah... I'm not good at naming things lol
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maegul (he/they)
in reply to Ada • • •Seeing some push back here on the idea of confusing things with more terms than just "fediverse". I get that. The problem is that that cat is very much out of the bag. Surely, for the vast majority of people that have any awareness of the fediverse, they think it's just Mastodon.
Either way, "Mastodon" is a much larger "brand" than "fediverse" or anything else on the fediverse. So trying to get some conceptual branding going makes sense. It make things more clear, as the idea of the fediverse itself is kinda fuzzy and complex and probably best left out at the beginning. It's a little bit like the matrix, you have to see it with your own eyes, IMO.
So, my lame contribution ...
Threadiverse!: "Social media, but woven into threads, like Reddit or Forums, not like the chaos of Twitter, but all on the Fediverse so you can find anyone else doing anything else too."
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Nyanix
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maegul (he/they)
in reply to Nyanix • • •Yea, and it retains "fediverse" in it too. Not to love my own creation too much, but I'm liking it the more time I spend with it ... I'll probably start using it all over the place now LOL.
Importantly, it's not just Lemmy and /kbin, there are other thread or forum based platforms out there too (See, eg @mariusor@metalhead.club and their work). Advocating for them all with a single umbrella term surely helps.
Also, after a quick check there are some domains available too.
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comfy
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maegul (he/they)
in reply to comfy • • •I get you. In the end, for me, and I settled on this a while ago, "Fediverse" is a bad name. It's confusing, seems like a Marvel thing, sounds weird and even unappealing frankly. Mastodon works because it's a cool appealing word. It's not just twitter refugees and their ignorance. The "fediverse" has a marketing/branding problem. And if you want "refugees" or "migrants" (which I acknowledge are problematic terms for actual IRL refugees, sorry), you've got meet them where they are.
Additionally, platforms are actually products. In fact, relatively vertical products with often sub-par interoperability for something that claims to be the "next internet protocol". So, whether you create some branding or not, "you", as a platform, are putting branding out there even if it's the absence of an attempt.
So my recommended approach would be to happily "brand" a platform, but always be pushing and clarifying that it's on the fediverse and what that actually means. Also, I'd start talking about "the social web" rather than just the fediverse, because that's what it is and it's a better term IMO.
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Cosmic Ray
in reply to maegul (he/they) • • •Why not say, open-source social media where the consumer has choice and control
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in reply to Cosmic Ray • • •Kichae
in reply to maegul (he/they) • • •I don't know that I agree that just being heavy with product branding and trying to list interoperability as a feature really addresses the issue, but I 100% agree that "Fediverse" is an awful name.
But then, so is "world wide web". Or "Internet", for they matter. We get stuck with so many awful, awful names that sound like they were the idea of villains from a low budget 90s sci-fi tv show.
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Ada
in reply to comfy • • •Because no amount of ideological objection will change the fact that this is exactly what has happened. People are using it this way, and what I was trying to raise here is a way to talk about this particular niche of the web without running in exactly the same problem with lemmy
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comfy
in reply to Ada • • •Well, I honestly haven't come across anyone who uses it that way so I can't really advise.
I just feel like it's not so widespread to just assume we should accept that the "cat is out of the bag". We can just focus on correcting people, like we do when they conflate Lemmy with lemmy.ml.
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Jon
in reply to maegul (he/they) • • •A name for forum- and aggregator-style fediverse software. and instances sounds like a good idea to me. I agree with the points you and @ada@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone make elsewhere in the thread about the problem that most people coming from Twitter currently equate Mastodon with the "fediverse" as equivalent to Mastodon (a problem in general because it leads to centralization and marginalizing other implementations, and an even bigger problem currently because of Mastodon's reputation for anti-blackness and reply-guyism), and not wanting to have similar dynamics with people coming from reddit.
I'll have to think more about the specific term threadiverse. I see what you're getting at but Mastodon / Pleroma / CalcKey etc all have threads as well even from a microblogging perspective, and Kbin also has a microblog (as opposed to forum) view.
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comfy
in reply to Ada • • •The Fediverse. There's nothing inherently special about Lemmy or kbin or lotide being link aggregators. We get regular posters from Friendica and I've gotten replies from Mastodon accounts before.
The Fediverse is ALL of us. We should be interacting with PeerTube and Misskey and all the rest!
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in reply to ConstableJelly • • •Disclaimer: I am not a dev, my technical understanding is limited, and I only discovered kbin today.
The difference is that they are running completely different software, despite speaking the same* language ('protocol'). There may be some things one software does that another can't. I wonder if it's easier to answer what distinguishes it, or what makes them similar. They're both link aggregators (the same kind of website as reddit, e.g. people post links to groups and they get voted up or down by subscribers), and they're both able to process each other's posts and see each other's groups (kbin calls them magazines, apparently, while we call them communities. I don't know if that's purely semantic or if there is a profound difference). So as far as basic usage goes, both can make a post and unless they do something fancy, the other site can read and reply to it.
kbin has a different visual layout and appears to have more focus on also having microblogging and social media features within those groups, we don't have that feature and integration with Mastodon can be a b
... show moreDisclaimer: I am not a dev, my technical understanding is limited, and I only discovered kbin today.
The difference is that they are running completely different software, despite speaking the same* language ('protocol'). There may be some things one software does that another can't. I wonder if it's easier to answer what distinguishes it, or what makes them similar. They're both link aggregators (the same kind of website as reddit, e.g. people post links to groups and they get voted up or down by subscribers), and they're both able to process each other's posts and see each other's groups (kbin calls them magazines, apparently, while we call them communities. I don't know if that's purely semantic or if there is a profound difference). So as far as basic usage goes, both can make a post and unless they do something fancy, the other site can read and reply to it.
kbin has a different visual layout and appears to have more focus on also having microblogging and social media features within those groups, we don't have that feature and integration with Mastodon can be a bit stranger here (such as them replying to replies, in my experience it doesn't nest neatly like ours do, instead just showing as a reply to the original post, and maybe that's unavoidable when a twitter-like thread without proper comment replying has to fit our comments layout). It seems Lemmy has stayed closer to what reddit is like, while kbin has strayed into a more experimental approach.
kbin says "This is a very early beta version, and a lot of features are currently broken or in active development, such as federation" (and I have noticed the federation doesn't show some posts yet which would be expected to show). Lemmy doesn't seem to have such disclaimers. It's current version number suggests it is considered more mature, but still not particularly stable either.
kbin seems to have a mobile app under development, while Lemmy's seem to be more mature. That said, I've never used one.
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in reply to Brian S. • • •menturi
in reply to Trash Panda • • •Matthieu
in reply to menturi • • •There is a bunch of other protocols other than ActivityPub who are also considered part of the fediverse: Diaspora, Zot, Streams, etc.
In fact ActivityPub wasn’t always the main protocol of the fediverse, it used to be OStatus. Mastdon was first build on top of OStatus before switching to ActivityPub.
But nowadays ActivityPub is by far the most used one.
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mitexleo
in reply to QuentinCallaghan • • •The Pirate Post
in reply to Ada • • •@Ada in reality, what you call "Communiverse" or "FediGroups" is just one of the many implementations of ActivityPub "groups".
Just think of the fact that a PeerTube channel is also technically "an ActivityPub group" where "an ActivityPub user" posts content!
In reality, a general distinction of a technical type and one of an ergonomic type should be made.
The most important one for users is precisely the technical one, because it distinguishes the Fediverse into two types of software:
1- Social Networks (SN)
2- Social Content Aggregator (SCA)
1- the first are those that ALLOW their users to follow other users
2- the latter are the ones that DO NOT allow their users to follow other users
From an ergonomic point of view, however, the Fediverse is very heterogeneous and can only be understood if the first distinction is clearly understood.
For example, I can publish a calendar event on Mobilizon or on "Gancio" (which are two SCAs), but also on Fr
... show more@Ada in reality, what you call "Communiverse" or "FediGroups" is just one of the many implementations of ActivityPub "groups".
Just think of the fact that a PeerTube channel is also technically "an ActivityPub group" where "an ActivityPub user" posts content!
In reality, a general distinction of a technical type and one of an ergonomic type should be made.
The most important one for users is precisely the technical one, because it distinguishes the Fediverse into two types of software:
1- Social Networks (SN)
2- Social Content Aggregator (SCA)
1- the first are those that ALLOW their users to follow other users
2- the latter are the ones that DO NOT allow their users to follow other users
From an ergonomic point of view, however, the Fediverse is very heterogeneous and can only be understood if the first distinction is clearly understood.
For example, I can publish a calendar event on Mobilizon or on "Gancio" (which are two SCAs), but also on Friendica (which is an SN); can I post a video about Mastodon (which is a SN) or PeerTube (which is a SCA)!
Then it must be clear that the Groupiverse is a set of platforms that go far beyond Lemmy (which is an SCA) and Kbin (ah, Kbin is technically a SN!): in fact we have Friendica, which allows the creation of groups/forums that can be used by ALL Fedeverse users; but we also have Gup.pe and Chirp, which are basically a vertical implementation of the Friendica groups; or we have Lemmy, Lotide and Brutalinks which are link aggregators; and finally Kbin which is a link aggregator but which also has the features of a simple social network.
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