Skip to main content


#GretaThunberg is a genuine #hero in a world full of cosplayers, posers, LARPers, and edgelord keyboard warriors

VIdeo as #FreedomFlotilla is intercepted by #Israel (presumably- edit: confirmed) on its way to #Palestine

Edit:

#ThiagoAvila says the boats the surrounded the #Madleen in the dark have left

Edit edit: they were told to throw their phones in the water and they have been boarded

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to Ben Royce πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡©

@Korallenherz is a large account who replied "free gaza from hamas!" and then instablocked me

this is my message for the coward:

"Likud-Gewalt nΓ€hrt Hamas.

Hamas-Gewalt nΓ€hrt Likud.

So arbeiten die beiden Parasiten zusammen.

Sie erschaffen und nΓ€hren sich von den Leichen von PalΓ€stinensern und Israelis.

Es ist der Stammesnarr, der auf den einen hΓΆrt und den anderen angreift.

Wahre Moral lehnt sowohl Hamas als auch Likud ab und umarmt Israelis und PalΓ€stinenser."

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to Ben Royce πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡©

Korallenherz only thinks he is a large account.
He blocked me also, like so many others.
Welcome to the club. Don't worry and carry on. He isn't important.
@Korallenherz
in reply to Jerschte

@Korallenherz i went to his followers and he has like 99% 0-follower bot accounts. he claims to be a #journalist but none of the #german journalists i asked knows him. he collects donation but isn't disclosing his donors. he is probably a #zionist payed #troll. #mastodonsocial does shit about it. he is constantly spreading #misinformation about #palestine aid.

#fediverse

This entry was edited (6 months ago)

kali reshared this.

in reply to kali

@Jerschte idk about y'all but i don't want to be on a server that doesn't moderate.
in reply to kali

on the contrary

i think a lot of our problems is that we don't engage trolls

i'm not joking

i'm saying when you see disinfo in play, falling silent cedes online spaces to agendas

you can't engage every one, they are legion

but certainly engage the prominent ones

there's a certain attitude of "if you feed the troll you make them stronger"

i think the trajectory of modern social media shows that when you fall silent, trolls just own the online conversation

This entry was edited (6 months ago)

reshared this

in reply to kali

never address their claims

there is no debate with trolls

gish gallop (multiple bs claims), sea lion (bad faith engagement), etc:

these are social engineering tactics

for social control of a forum. and:

1. when you fall silent, you cede the online space

2. when you "debate" you make them famous as you say

there is only one play:

mockery

i'm saying behave badly as a conscious choice

like tolerance, good behavior is a social contract, not a principle

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to Ben Royce πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡©

@kaliagainstallodds @Jerschte

of course you have to be careful here to accurately identify your interlocutor

there are people who are honestly looking for engagement and have been lied to and you can correct the record and deprogram them from the propaganda efforts of online troll farms

so you always start assuming good faith

you allow them to show you they are acting in bad faith first. this is a must or you're the jerk, not them

and it still might be better to ignore them. it depends

in reply to kali

@kaliagainstallodds @Jerschte

Most of what they say (not just claims but faulty logic and rhetorical tricks) can be addressed without naming them. They're interchangeable.

in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina

@angelastella @Jerschte i have been naming this particular one because there are so many complains about him and the mods have not done anything.
in reply to Ángela Stella Matutina

bait them

kali:

phrase your replies to herd them into making responses which might elicit a suspend

of course, i was blocked in this thread by that troll and another one

they know when they're dealing with the easy marks for their con vs those who are onto their game

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to Ben Royce πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡©

@kaliagainstallodds @Jerschte You don't have to reply to trolls to counter them. My time on twitter dealing with climate trolls made me realize that they absolutely do not care about the truth, and they get a kick out of irritating certain groups of people, no matter how clownish it makes them appear. They get dopamine hits from the responses.
in reply to Dan Neuman πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦

@dan613 @kaliagainstallodds @Jerschte

yup

another strategy is fall silent in the exchange with a troll, then start a new comment not mentioning them but using the energy from encountering bad faith lies to say something truthful on the topic

it's a net positive of engagement, holistically

but i like to go dark

i mock trolls

consciously. calculating

to trip them up

to herd them into saying something banworthy

and then i report them

troll hunting

i've done this with vatniks to success

in reply to John Francis πŸ‡¨πŸ‡¦πŸ¦«πŸπŸ’ͺ⬆️

trolls are engaging in social engineering rather than good faith discussion, to "own" a forum by driving you into silence because you're "high minded," or into frustration after lying to you endlessly

trolls are not playing the same game as you

so undermine their tactics

if the tragedy of the commons is that one goon can defecate in a town square and ruin it for everyone, just have a garden hose with you

and spray it in their face

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to JWcph, Radicalized By Decency

@jwcph @kaliagainstallodds @Jerschte

no

slap geopolitical and domestic politics disinfo trolls down with ridicule...

then bait them into saying the bannable offense you know they want to say

then report them

and have their account nuked

why give them a shove when you can go for the kill? (figuratively speaking: no real world violence implied here)

in reply to kali

@kaliagainstallodds
I don't think he is paid. He believes in his actions and words.
His problem is he thinks about himself to be the biggest and only true antifa warrior who owns the wisdom of the world. Forget about him. It's a couch warrior without any relevance.
@benroyce
in reply to Jerschte

@Jerschte @kaliagainstallodds

you are preaching highmindedness and highmindedness is how we got here with the state of modern social media

fight trolls, don't ignore them

ignoring them cedes online spaces to them

but *how* you fight them matters

don't debate them

they can shovel lies forever

then you get frustrated and alienated and you've again ceded the online space to them

so you mock them

they are engaging in social engineering not good faith discussion

so undermine their efforts

in reply to cuan_knaggs

@mensrea @Jerschte @kaliagainstallodds

exactly

when you choose to engage a troll (and it doesn't make sense plenty of times, but sometimes it does), your mind isn't on them, your mind is on the perception of anyone reading along

you succeed by highlighting their behavior

you bait them

or just straight up call them out

*never* debate them

they are acting in bad faith

that just frustrates you and anyone reading along is only thinking "why are you wasting your time"

in reply to Ben Royce πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡©

@mensrea @Jerschte @kaliagainstallodds
Some chats keep the trolls as pets for a while, like a Court Jester of sorts. At least until they say something extra banable, like calling for violence.
in reply to TanekRune

@TanekRune @mensrea @Jerschte @kaliagainstallodds

as an alternative, you can just bait them right off the bat into the banable offense you know they are going to say

i've done this with vatniks on mastodon

i suppose you could bait them another way to keep them spouting kremlin disinfo. in an entertaining "that's extremely stupid" way just to laugh at them

but i say just go for the kill (figuratively speaking)

i'm talking kremlin disinfo. for other topics i can see what you're saying

in reply to Ben Royce πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡©

@mensrea @Jerschte @kaliagainstallodds
I've found they get extra mad when we all start encouraging them that it's okay to grow up, think for themselves, do and be better. They copy and paste their propaganda a while, realize no one's listening, and find their way out.

But yeah, this really only works in spaces where everyone is smart enough to recognize common propaganda and counter it by employing any sense of humanitarianism.

in reply to TanekRune

@TanekRune @mensrea @Jerschte @kaliagainstallodds

the essential effort of the troll is to encourage dismorality, disengagement, not caring about an issue

secondarily, to take over an online space by making you fall silent in the "highmindedness" of not engaging them

or drive you to frustration and exhaustion by sea lioning and gish galloping you with endless bad faith lies if you make the mistake of "debating" them

therefore it is ok, no, it's laudable, to play their psyop right back at them

in reply to Ben Royce πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡©

@Jerschte @kaliagainstallodds
> fight trolls, don't ignore them

Nope. You could offer me a paying job, and I would turn it down

Life's too short to argue with trolls.

Block and move on

Also, most of them are probably bots. So anything other than a block and they win

in reply to Falling forward πŸ‰

i have absolutely no problem with your attitude

if it's not your cup of tea:

block, ignore, move on

100% fine

but for those who are so disposed:

fight trolls (but pick your fights. and use good tactics)

why?

because the entire attention of the world is now shaped by social media

deciding the fate of elections

something should be done

something big is hard to come by

something small doesn't matter

*unless* it's many small things by many people

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to Ben Royce πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡©

@AnnyJoe @Jerschte @kaliagainstallodds I hope you don't mind me commenting. Your comment that "the entire attention of the World is now shaped by social media" is very interesting. I think of all the quiet places in the World which are now overrun as they been outed on social media. I think of the extreme opinions which might have been ignored in the past but are now reposted and gain notoriety. Yet if we can't wind back the clock and uninvent social media, can we reclaim truth?
in reply to Indy Richard 🏴󠁧󠁒󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

yes, there is an antidote to #socialMedia killing #democracy

this

the #fediverse/ #mastodon

not #bluesky: centralized and crypto bro owned

unfortunately some voices on the fediverse prefer it stay fringe and small

this is elitist snobbery

you want more people here, more normies (never #bigotry)

centralized corporate social media didn't fight bigotry, and now they support it

so here is where the line must hold

and grow

screw elitism

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to Indy Richard 🏴󠁧󠁒󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

@IndyRichard @AnnyJoe @Jerschte @kaliagainstallodds I do think the entire attention of the world is shaped by the ALGORITHMS of social media.

It’s quite frightening to think how much communication is in so few hands over the whole world and I am glad we have algorithm-free Mastodon to keep us sane

in reply to Ben Royce πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡©

You always forget to name the real people responsible: The terrorist organization Hamas.
It wants to wipe out Israel and all its actions are anti-Semitic.
@eliyahhavemann
in reply to John M.

@JohnMeils @eliyahhavemann

hey bot, you should try reading a little of a thread before you drop your copy paste astroturf:

mastodon.social/@benroyce/1146…


@Korallenherz is a large account who replied "free gaza from hamas!" and then instablocked me

this is my message for the coward:

"Likud-Gewalt nΓ€hrt Hamas.

Hamas-Gewalt nΓ€hrt Likud.

So arbeiten die beiden Parasiten zusammen.

Sie erschaffen und nΓ€hren sich von den Leichen von PalΓ€stinensern und Israelis.

Es ist der Stammesnarr, der auf den einen hΓΆrt und den anderen angreift.

Wahre Moral lehnt sowohl Hamas als auch Likud ab und umarmt Israelis und PalΓ€stinenser."


in reply to Ben Royce πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡©

@eliyahhavemann

Hey Ben, I don't know which one of us is a bot, but you throw around swear words here, discredit other people you don't know and seem to think you are an infinitely important person.
Please stop posting pro-Palestinian propaganda especially when you can't verify it. By doing so you are endangering all the Jews in the world who have been subjected to physical attacks and assaults since 7.10.23.
β€žDon't be like Hamas. Be a human being.β€œ

#noAntisemitism

in reply to Ben Royce πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡©

and "John M." replies and blocks

because i post "pro-Palestinian propaganda"

right after i ask them to read something, that shows exactly what this moron's problem is, and exactly where i am coming from. and showing their lying smears have nothing to do with what i say

also right after the moron replies to my post showing they didn't a read a damn thing before copy pasting lying astroturf

the problem with the world today:

blind ignorant tribalism, zero principles

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to John M.

@JohnMeils
I guess the path to "free Gaza from Hamas" involves the limbs of children and the lives of journalists and starvation of millions? Whatever.

@benroyce @eliyahhavemann

in reply to xinit β˜•

@xinit @JohnMeils @eliyahhavemann

#hamas and #likud are the enemies of #palestine and #israel

they are parasites who feed each other, create each other

on a mountain of dead

to say hamas only, or likud only, is the enemy, is a lie

and of course, to say #palestinians or #israelis are the enemy is #hate that kills- the statement before this is only a manipulation to get their tribal hate in there and avoid the ban hammer

principles over tribalism

#twoStateSolution

the only way to #peace

Unknown parent

@losttourist @xinit @JohnMeils @eliyahhavemann

if it were easy it would have been settled in the 1950s

the two state solution is the only acceptable solution, hands down

getting there... yeah, that's the massive gordian knot

in reply to Ben Royce πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡©

I hope she will discuss with Israelis why turning Gaza into an environmental disaster isn't good for them, either.
in reply to Eliyah Havemann

no

it was murdered:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_…

rabin's assassination due to trying for peace led to the rise of netanyahu

palestinians and israelis have been murdering each other since long before i was born and will probably still be murdering each other long after i'm dead, i'm not naive

and two state is super hard

but everything else is worse so that's what we have to aim for

if you have a better idea, go for it. otherwise you have to agree

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to Ben Royce πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡©

This is only propaganda.
On their way to Gaza they rescued refugees from the mediterranian, but gave them to Frontex (european boarder control with a reputation similar to ICE).
They had 100kg of flour. Which kind of aid should this be?
in reply to Jerschte

there is a difference between propaganda and placing the optics on the morality of the issue

what you're saying is like "al gore doesn't really care about climate change because he rides airplanes"

if you see the manipulation in that, then please fuck off with this "greta doesn't really care because she didn't bring enough flour for everyone in gaza"

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to Ben Royce πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡©

this people themselves talked about bringing aid to Gaza. Which aid? 100kg flour? This is clearly propaganda. It's all about placing optics on themselves. In the recent days nobody talked about the suffer of Gaza people. It was all about "where ist the boat now?" "What did Greta say?"

If people would be the issue, they hadn't done this to the refugees.

in reply to Jerschte

the more pressing issue is people ignoring what is going on in gaza

greta is focusing attention

you're simply using toxic idealism as a troll effort right now:

"ok they are doing something good but they didn't do something perfect, so that's the rationale i'm going to use to discredit them"

which as a troll angle does work on airheads on the left in this world, unfortunately

so happy trolling, agent provocateur

but your troll sales pitch isn't working here my friend

i see you

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to Ben Royce πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡©

I noticed @Jerschte has an anti nazi message on his header image. But it will hardly ever be seen, won’t change anybody’s mind. It’s clearly useless propaganda. Why put that then. Why not do the real work.
in reply to Adriano

@adriano @Jerschte

geopolitical troll farm works by cosplaying

they go into MAGA spaces with images on their handles of the american flag and bros wearing sunglasses in pickup trucks

then they give them encouragement to their bigotry, and encourage them to vote

then the same troll farm, maybe even the same troll, goes into lefty spaces with socialist messages and antifa pronouncements in their handles, and they go:

"well, they are doing good, but they aren't doing perfect, so why vote?"

in reply to Ben Royce πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ πŸ‡ΈπŸ‡©

some dumbass once criticized two left-wing ecologist politicians here because they’d taken a selfie on a plane. Reply: β€œyes, we should have covered the distance (~3000km) on foot, sure, Jan”. Exact same energy here. @Jerschte
in reply to Adriano

@adriano @Jerschte

yup

the "al gore rides airplanes so he doesn't really care about the environment" manipulation

it's an appeal to toxic idealism

unfortunately, it's a common tactic of troll farm pointed at the left because the tactic works

many leftists are airheads on the psyop angle of positioning perfect as the enemy of the good

they don't see the manipulation, they fall for it

then they don't vote and...

mission accomplished for geopolitical and domestic far right agendas

in reply to Humphrey Archer

@screwturn @Jerschte

it's hard at times to figure out if you are dealing with someone you can debate, or someone who is engaging you in bad faith

so this is how you spot geopolitical/ domestic far right troll farm:

if they position perfect as the enemy of the good, if they push that toxic idealism angle, then you're not dealing with someone honest who is struggling that you can help

you are dealing with a conscious manipulation, an attempt to frustrate you and "own" the conversation

Unknown parent

@Wyatt_H_Knott @kaliagainstallodds @Jerschte

oof

wehraboos

it's quite hard to get more pathetic than such sad cringe characters

Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source
Wyatt H Knott

@kaliagainstallodds @Jerschte

Their goal is to make you "reeeeeeeeee".

You have to make them "reeeeee" first.

That's the game. The whole game. There is nothing else. You can't convince them, you can't out argue them, you won't change them. But you can make them mad enough to become incoherent.

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source
Jerschte
@edgeofeurope
Aha, and did your goddes bring them back to life?
Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source
Jerschte

@edgeofeurope

Holy shit, the old right-wing-story of the "bombenholocaust"🀦🏼

STFU naziscum

Unknown parent

mastodon - Link to source
Jerschte

@edgeofeurope
I don't defend the actions of the israeli right-wing government.
this air-war-tactic was the backlash of German war tactic. Only because of the Bombardement of Dresden Victor Klemperer survived and could write his important books. The fireshine of Dresden motivated prisoners in Theresienstadt to survive.

If somebody talks nazishit, I call them Nazi. That's it.

⇧