jointhefediverse.net - Why was Lemmy removed from the list of fediverse alternatives?
jointhefediverse.net seems to be a commonly linked resource for directing people to join the Fediverse.
Curiously, it does not list Lemmy under the list of Reddit alternatives. Their GitHub README explains why.
Previous relevant discussion: lemmy.ml/post/78808
GitHub - jointhefediverse-net/jointhefediverse.net
Contribute to jointhefediverse-net/jointhefediverse.net development by creating an account on GitHub.GitHub
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catloaf
in reply to teohhanhui • • •All valid concerns.
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Skiluros
in reply to catloaf • • •Point 1 and 2 really need to be addressed.
It would be so much better if lemmy wasn't developed by genocide white-washing tankies.
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Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Skiluros • • •like this
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suoko
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Serinus
in reply to suoko • • •Andrew
in reply to Serinus • • •suoko
in reply to Andrew • • •Andrew
in reply to suoko • • •It uses postgres for the DB - I think that and redis are designed to operate at very large scales, so it wouldn't be them.
My guess would be that it's something in the interpreted nature of Python - this seems to be why a familiar dismissal of PieFed is a concern about how it will scale.
That said, this site shows that Python is the most popular language for Fediverse apps (just), the likes of Mastodon are written in another interpreted language (Ruby), and I think there are more big websites running Python (with Django or Flask) than people realise. So I don't know, really, I'm just following other people's lead on this. I don't imagine that any problems would be insurmountable though: an admin could restrict the amount of signups, or if new users mean a few more donations, they could just throw money at the problem (more cycles for one server, or splitting up tasks across multiple servers).
- Fediverse.Party - explore federated networks
fediverse.partysuoko
in reply to Andrew • • •kat
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Andrew
in reply to kat • • •kat
in reply to Andrew • • •SorteKanin
in reply to Andrew • • •And with their current pace, it seems likely they never will. There's been no major development on it for months as far as I can see.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to SorteKanin • • •ocean
in reply to kat • • •SorteKanin
in reply to kat • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to SorteKanin • • •SorteKanin
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Well, in theory sure. But you always lose people during migrations, it's inevitable. And it's cumbersome for users. It's not a nice experience. The fediverse has enough bad UX as it is, I'd prefer if we didn't pile on more.
If the fediverse actually held true to the promise of easy migrations, then maybe it wouldn't be a big deal. But unfortunately it's still not really that easy.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to SorteKanin • • •I see it happening gradually.
There might be a start with another Piefed instance (e.g. Piefed.zip, managed by Lemmy.zip admins). People who really don't want to use Lemmy would register on that instance, but would still be able to interact with the communities on Lemmy, the way Mbin and Piefed alreay do now. They start hosting a few communities onn Piefed.zip, locking other on lemmy.zip and redirecting people there.
Then over time some other admins want to give it a try. After a while a few Piefed instances make it to the top 10 most active instances, while the rest is Lemmy.
It doesn't have to happen overnight. We have time, people are not going anywhere.
lambalicious
in reply to Skiluros • • •Skiluros
in reply to lambalicious • • •teohhanhui
in reply to lambalicious • • •en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SDF_Publ…
wow that's interesting :D
shell provider
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)michael
in reply to teohhanhui • • •shadow
in reply to michael • • •lambalicious
in reply to shadow • • •suoko
in reply to lambalicious • • •lambalicious
in reply to suoko • • •dustyData
in reply to lambalicious • • •sepiroth154
in reply to catloaf • • •The links from the github in case anyone wants to learn more (in order of the list):
web.archive.org/web/2021090102…
raddle.me/f/lobby/96713/heads-…
raddle.me/f/lobby/155371/warni…
FediTips (@feditips@mstdn.social)
Mastodon 🐘like this
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Catoblepas
in reply to sepiroth154 • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Catoblepas • • •Sorry to hear
Catoblepas
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •unalivejoy
in reply to Catoblepas • • •Entire thread, all from the same user:
::: spoiler Post 1
Please don't use Lemmy :( Human rights, oppression
Human rights mean a lot to me. I joined the Fediverse to make the world a nicer place. My efforts are pathetically small, but hopefully make at least a tiny difference.
I used to recommend Lemmy very strongly, thought the people who develop it were nice folks interested in making the world better too.
However, recent discussions with the developers has changed my mind completely.
I am very suspicious about their motivations now.
1/6
:::
::: spoiler Post 2
Please don't use Lemmy :( Human rights, oppression
Lemmy's developers say "we are strictly against all forms of oppression (including genocide), and dont allow anything that promotes or supports oppression" and "We definitely are very staunchly against bigotry or persecution of minorities, and are strict about banning that".
This is difficult to fully reconcile with what actually happens on the developers' own instance, and those they feature.
2/6
:
... show moreEntire thread, all from the same user:
::: spoiler Post 1
Please don't use Lemmy :( Human rights, oppression
Human rights mean a lot to me. I joined the Fediverse to make the world a nicer place. My efforts are pathetically small, but hopefully make at least a tiny difference.
I used to recommend Lemmy very strongly, thought the people who develop it were nice folks interested in making the world better too.
However, recent discussions with the developers has changed my mind completely.
I am very suspicious about their motivations now.
1/6
:::
::: spoiler Post 2
Please don't use Lemmy :( Human rights, oppression
Lemmy's developers say "we are strictly against all forms of oppression (including genocide), and dont allow anything that promotes or supports oppression" and "We definitely are very staunchly against bigotry or persecution of minorities, and are strict about banning that".
This is difficult to fully reconcile with what actually happens on the developers' own instance, and those they feature.
2/6
:::
::: spoiler Post 3
Please don't use Lemmy :( Human rights, oppression
The problem here isn't Lemmy's politics, but their attitude to threads about human rights violations.
On the face of it, the developers' main Lemmy instance has lots of uncontroversial general interest threads, but when you start digging on controversial topics a worrying pattern emerges.
The worrying posts are very reminiscent of the way certain churches have handled priest abuse claims: denial.
3/6
:::
::: spoiler Post 4
Please don't use Lemmy :( Human rights, oppression
There's threads denyng the oppression of Uyghur muslims (this oppression has been well documented by NGOs, for example: amnesty.org.uk/actions/help-en…).
Other posts deny that North Korea is oppressive.
Meanwhile, another suggests celebrating Stalin's birthday as he was such a great guy.
(Incidentally, I have receipts, DM me if you want to see them for yourself.)
4/6
:::
::: spoiler Post 5
Please don't use Lemmy :( Human rights, oppression
You get the picture.
These posts were on the main Lemmy instance, as featured on the official Lemmy website.
Over the past few days I have tried to engage with Lemmy about these posts in private, as I was sure it must be a misunderstanding.
However, Lemmy said that "none of the posts you linked are against our rules", and refused to even discuss the actual issues because "this format is not conducive to political disagreements".
5/6
:::
::: spoiler Post 6
Please don't use Lemmy :( Human rights, oppression
I deeply regret ever having publicised Lemmy. I'm really sorry.
Don't use Lemmy.
For whatever my opinion is worth any more, I would now recommend that people cancel their donations to Lemmy, stay as far away from Lemmy as possible, and donate to another Fediverse project instead.
I was wondering whether to stay quiet, but it seemed better to speak up and say something
6/6
:::
::: spoiler Post 7
Please don't use Lemmy :( Human rights, oppression
p.s. I put the wrong link for Amnesty, the Uyghur report is here:
amnesty.org/en/documents/asa17…
:::
::: spoiler Post 8
Please don't use Lemmy :( Human rights, oppression
p.p.s. Someone has pointed out that lemmy.ml (the official Lemmy instance) resolves to the same IP address as lemmygrad.ml (the instance that contains the most disturbing material).
Lemmy.ml also federates with lemmygrad, and the devs advertise lemmygrad on their "join lemmy" site.
Do the Lemmy developers themselves run the lemmygrad.ml site? (Its main logo is a tank, incidentally.)
:::
::: spoiler Post 9
Please don't use Lemmy :( Human rights, oppression
p.p.p.s. There was an older "reddit for the Fediverse" project called Prismo which had some working instances at one point.
Perhaps someone could resurrect it, to provide an alternative to Lemmy?
gitlab.com/prismosuite/prismo
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UK Government must not be silent over Xinjiang Governor visit
Amnesty International UKCatoblepas
in reply to unalivejoy • • •Fizz
in reply to catloaf • • •like this
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teohhanhui
in reply to Fizz • • •Yeah, seems like it's just how ActivityPub works / how federated networks are.
Recently came across this very interesting writeup: gitlab.com/spritely/ocappub/bl… (via social.coop/@cwebber/113639985…)
README.org · master · spritely / OcapPub · GitLab
GitLabChristine Lemmer-Webber
2024-12-12 13:02:49
Fizz
in reply to teohhanhui • • •vrighter
in reply to Fizz • • •Fizz
in reply to vrighter • • •Andrew
in reply to Fizz • • •jagged_circle
in reply to Andrew • • •Martineski
in reply to jagged_circle • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Martineski • • •teohhanhui
in reply to jagged_circle • • •Source? I did a cursory search for "GDPR" on the GitHub issues and can't find anything like that.
Anyway, this seems to be their more recent stance:
github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issu…
GDPR Style User Data Export · Issue #4540 · LemmyNet/lemmy
GitHubBlaze (he/him)
in reply to teohhanhui • • •jagged_circle
in reply to teohhanhui • • •I dont know what you mean. If you search for GDPR (including closed tickets) in both the Lemmy and lemmy-ui repos, you'll see lots of bugs that make running Lemmy illegal for instance admins.
Here's one particularly egregious example
github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy-ui/i…
[Bug]: Delete Account should delete uploaded media (pictures) too · Issue #2384 · LemmyNet/lemmy-ui
GitHubteohhanhui
in reply to jagged_circle • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to teohhanhui • • •He admitted it at the end of the ticket
realcaseyrollins
in reply to catloaf • • •I hate it when people try to gatekeep like this. I don't need to be handheld. If there's a Fediverse alternative to something and it mostly works, it should be on the website. Anything less is not useful at best.
Edit: I say this as someone who has historically criticized the behavior of the devs as well as multiple Lemmy communities BTW.
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haverholm
in reply to realcaseyrollins • • •Well, since you've vocally criticised the developers and they haven't bothered changing their ways, wouldn't you agree they deserve to be gatekept?
On the other hand, it's not for you to decide the criteria for what is included on jointhefediverse's curated list. I personally think it is a perfectly reasonable judgement call they've made.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to haverholm • • •realcaseyrollins
in reply to haverholm • • •haverholm
in reply to realcaseyrollins • • •It's not "censorship" when somebody decides to omit a software from a curated list over the developers' horrible takes. See also Soapbox.
Edited to add: Free speech does not obligate anybody to boost or acknowledge subjects that they disagree with.
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realcaseyrollins
in reply to haverholm • • •kat
in reply to realcaseyrollins • • •Lemmy is bigger by a LOT (LIKE A LOT) than mbin and piefed. So don't see how Lemmy is losing the strong grip it already has on this type of fediverse. Heck, google reddit alternatives and Lemmy is also king.
This change on that site was in 2023. It's 2025. So it has not impacted Lemmy's user base.
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realcaseyrollins
in reply to kat • • •haverholm
in reply to realcaseyrollins • • •like this
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realcaseyrollins
in reply to haverholm • • •Ulrich
in reply to haverholm • • •They are suppressing information about the fediverse based on political views. They had it up and then they took it down. Please explain how this is not censorship. I don't know where people get the idea that censorship is an inherently negative thing.
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haverholm
in reply to Ulrich • • •In the encyclopedic sense, you're right. In this context that I replied to, however, censorship had a negative connotation, and my response spoke to that rather than the formal meaning.
Right, and I do note that you talk about jointhefediverse "suppressing" Lemmy — another negative connotation.
I'll maintain that, no, they are just leaving it out. Again, that is the privilege of a list curator. Nobody else have a say in what and why is included on the site. Choosing what to publish, and the omissions that entails, are also protected by free speech.
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Ulrich
in reply to haverholm • • •It can be their privilege and also be censorship. You seem to imply otherwise.
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haverholm
in reply to Ulrich • • •like this
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Ulrich
in reply to haverholm • • •haverholm
in reply to Ulrich • • •like this
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Ulrich
in reply to haverholm • • •Carighan Maconar
in reply to Ulrich • • •like this
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Ulrich
in reply to Carighan Maconar • • •The main argument I see against Lemmy devs is that they're "tankies", which is most certainly political. And I agree. Except that there's nothing in the software itself that is political. Only the devs, and many of the .ml communities and users.
archomrade [he/him]
in reply to haverholm • • •Is that really what all this protest is over? Someone's 'horrible takes'?
haverholm
in reply to archomrade [he/him] • • •archomrade [he/him]
in reply to haverholm • • •Yea, but that kinda nails the pettyness of it, doesn't it? They don't even gain anything by having people adopt their software, nor do they suffer a loss by a boycott - and it's all because they have some questionable (to put it charitably) opinions about an entirely unrelated political issue.
The thing that gets me is that launching this diatribe over the developer's political opinions on an open sourced project that's built specifically so that no one group or person has control over the platform - that you have complete control over the instances you federate with - ends up looking an awful lot like protesting public libraries over providing access to 'woke' books.
Skiluros
in reply to realcaseyrollins • • •How is this censorship though?
You can always start joinfediversefreespeechstan.io or whatever. The code is even available, no?
I could never understand american-style preference for "free speech" themed theatrics.
realcaseyrollins
in reply to Skiluros • • •Because as the leading "Fediverse alternative" website, it essentially tells the viewer that Lemmy doesn't exist, which I think does a disservice to prospective Fediverse users.
But yes good point, anyone can make an alternative website, I think right wing people made like a fuckgab.com site back in the day to recommend Gab alternatives on the Fediverse.
Skiluros
in reply to realcaseyrollins • • •Where does it say "Lemmy doesn't exist"? The admins of the site are well within their right to curate what service they include. I say this as someone who uses Lemmy a lot and really wants there to be a non-corporate, competition-focused alternative (instances, UIs) to reddit specifically and oligarch run social networks in general.
I don't understand how "censorship" plays into this (beyond shallow polemical grandstanding). Where is the censorship?
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SirEDCaLot
in reply to haverholm • • •No. In fact, I strongly dislike that whole attitude of 'do what I want or else I will cancel you'. I am not the arbiter of what is ultimately right and wrong and neither are you and neither is parent commenter.
I believe people have the right to make their own choice. And since Lemmy has significant user base and significant active discussion and thousands of communities, I think the users have the right to make that choice for themselves. Make them aware of the situation, make them aware of the potential downsides, make them aware that lemmy.ml is run by tankie assholes, maybe recommend some better instances, and let them choose for themselves.
That is why I like Lemmy and the fediverse as a concept. I can choose the instance that has the policies that I want. Among those policies is which other instances to defiederate from.
haverholm
in reply to SirEDCaLot • • •And yet you argue against the jointhefediverse curator's choice not to list whatever goes against their convictions?
As mentioned in another reply, Soapbox is an example of a Fediverse server software that often goes unmentioned because the developer is a giant MAGA hat. As the meme goes, they're the same picture.
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SirEDCaLot
in reply to haverholm • • •Of course it's their choice.
But I also think some people in some situations should recognize a broader responsibility. Because we get into a larger question of, what happens when the public square is privately owned?
With a website like joinfediverse, that domain becomes a primary resource for people looking to get into decentralized platforms. By not including something, the maintainer is not just making the choice for himself but for every new user who visits the site. That responsibility should be taken seriously and the choice not just made based on personal opinion.
Think of it this way, imagine I made a site called whoshouldIvotefor.com and it would ask you questions and then recommend a political candidate. Sounds like a good idea, right? Now what if I make it so the site always recommends a Republican candidate, and only justifies why the answers you gave to the questions indicate that vote?
... show moreI'm certainly allowed to do that. Free speech and all. But it could be argued that I also have a responsibility to the voters who come to my site who don't realize i
Of course it's their choice.
But I also think some people in some situations should recognize a broader responsibility. Because we get into a larger question of, what happens when the public square is privately owned?
With a website like joinfediverse, that domain becomes a primary resource for people looking to get into decentralized platforms. By not including something, the maintainer is not just making the choice for himself but for every new user who visits the site. That responsibility should be taken seriously and the choice not just made based on personal opinion.
Think of it this way, imagine I made a site called whoshouldIvotefor.com and it would ask you questions and then recommend a political candidate. Sounds like a good idea, right? Now what if I make it so the site always recommends a Republican candidate, and only justifies why the answers you gave to the questions indicate that vote?
I'm certainly allowed to do that. Free speech and all. But it could be argued that I also have a responsibility to the voters who come to my site who don't realize it is biased, in that I am pushing my personal opinions on them and causing them to make a decision that they wouldn't have made if they had all the facts.
(Disclaimer- I'm not a Republican, I consider myself liberal-libertarian. I'm using that as an example.)
I am just saying that a site which sets itself up as an authoritative on ramp to the fediverse should try to be unbiased and not based on personal opinions of its editor.
SirEDCaLot
in reply to realcaseyrollins • • •I agree 100% with this. The developers or the operators of lemmy.ml may be assholes, but the beauty of decentralization is I can simply not use their instance. I do not.
Thus, while a warning label is necessary, I think more good is done by making people aware of the alternative to Reddit than by sweeping the whole thing under the rug.
As for user privacy, I'm not sure Lemmy is any worse than any other Fediverse app. There were a couple of bad things like being unable to delete a hosted image, but that has been fixed.
Once again, warning label, not rug sweep.
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timestatic
in reply to realcaseyrollins • • •don't like this
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Bezier
in reply to catloaf • • •cm0002
in reply to Bezier • • •Avid Amoeba
in reply to cm0002 • • •like this
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Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Avid Amoeba • • •Lemmy - A link aggregator for the fediverse
join-lemmy.orgAvid Amoeba
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Avid Amoeba • • •Avid Amoeba
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Well to me that doesn't fit the "it's default" description.
While looking at that, I couldn't see lemmy.world on that page. I found that join-lemmy.org now excludes instances with >30% user share in order to dampen centralisation. Which makes sense I guess.
Exclude instances with more than 30% of active users by Nutomic · Pull Request #359 · LemmyNet/joinlemmy-site
GitHubunalivejoy
in reply to cm0002 • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to unalivejoy • • •Good luck finding Rust devs interested in link aggregators. That fork would probably fall behind, and people would switch back to Lemmy as they keep delivering features.
Mbin and Piefed use more popular languages and haven't caught up yet
michael
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Instead of trying to fork, maybe we try and go the Gotosocial way and make a MVP smol version. Something that can house 10 or so users. People can spin up whatever they want.
Honestly what I wouldnt give for a reddit theme on mastodon that uses their hashtags as the communities themselves. That would be cool in my opinion.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to unalivejoy • • •FuzzyWeevil
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •jagged_circle
in reply to unalivejoy • • •comfy
in reply to cm0002 • • •Rhoeri
in reply to comfy • • •comfy
in reply to Rhoeri • • •thoro
in reply to Rhoeri • • •If anything is too bad, it's .world being so prominent.
Half this comm's activity is spreading FUD about the platform and being a gathering place for all the people developing their alternatives to huddle and advertise those.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Rhoeri • • •- fedidb.org/software/lemmy
- lemmyverse.net/communities?ord…
FediDB, Fediverse Network Statistics
fedidb.orgRhoeri
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Rhoeri • • •Where? the comments dismiss that statement, saying that it's just an instance among others
lemmy.ca/comment/13804330
If there is anything as a default instance, it's Lemmy.world
Avid Amoeba
2025-01-09 20:56:20
haverholm
in reply to Bezier • • •But the Lemmy project and specific instances are not so easily separated. From the archived mastodon thread:
So yeah, newcomers are presented with a join-lemmy site that promotes Lemmygrad and Lemmy ML, both of which appear to be run by the Lemmy devs.
That pretty much makes it a Lemmy problem.
archomrade [he/him]
in reply to haverholm • • •haverholm
in reply to archomrade [he/him] • • •I agree that ideally the concept of "main instances" is beside the point in a federated network. Let's call them "flagship" or "onboarding instances" then, the initial ones set up by developers as proof of concept that usually get the most traction by way of being open for registrations the longest.
I think it's disingenuous to classify the decision to omit Lemmy from a list of fediverse software as "a spat", though. Bringing it up again 1½ years later probably fits the bill better.
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Blaze (he/him)
in reply to haverholm • • •But lemmy.ml isn't the most active, nor does it host the most active communities
- fedidb.org/software/lemmy
- lemmyverse.net/communities?ord…
FediDB, Fediverse Network Statistics
fedidb.orgLost_My_Mind
in reply to catloaf • • •comfy
in reply to catloaf • • •SolarMonkey
in reply to catloaf • • •These concerns, and more, are why just today, during a conversation with some friends looking to get off traditional social media, I advised them to join pixelfed, peer tube, mastodon, and loops, but suggested they strictly avoid Lemmy.
The communities aren’t right for anyone who isn’t seeking something exactly like Lemmy or leftie-Reddit-lite. I don’t even really like it here all that much anymore. Not the content; the interactions… across all my accounts.. even joining “nicer” spaces is not a particularly nice or pleasant experience, plus the more interested is a woman, and Lemmy is a horrible sausagefest echo chamber not at all suited to a normal average woman person who isn’t techie. I’m techie, so I’m used to the vibe, but for your average cis-woman, Lemmy is a very very bad fit.
Bring on the downvotes if you like (the echo-chamber anti-voice sentiment is part of why people shouldn’t be recommended this platform, after all) but these are legit concerns for people who may want to join, and those of us alr
... show moreThese concerns, and more, are why just today, during a conversation with some friends looking to get off traditional social media, I advised them to join pixelfed, peer tube, mastodon, and loops, but suggested they strictly avoid Lemmy.
The communities aren’t right for anyone who isn’t seeking something exactly like Lemmy or leftie-Reddit-lite. I don’t even really like it here all that much anymore. Not the content; the interactions… across all my accounts.. even joining “nicer” spaces is not a particularly nice or pleasant experience, plus the more interested is a woman, and Lemmy is a horrible sausagefest echo chamber not at all suited to a normal average woman person who isn’t techie. I’m techie, so I’m used to the vibe, but for your average cis-woman, Lemmy is a very very bad fit.
Bring on the downvotes if you like (the echo-chamber anti-voice sentiment is part of why people shouldn’t be recommended this platform, after all) but these are legit concerns for people who may want to join, and those of us already here can and do steer people elsewhere as a result.
GrammarPolice
in reply to SolarMonkey • • •SolarMonkey
in reply to GrammarPolice • • •FuzzyWeevil
in reply to SolarMonkey • • •archomrade [he/him]
in reply to SolarMonkey • • •Far be it from me to point out this is exactly how reddit started.
The foundational promise of lemmy and the fediverse writ large is freedom from proprietary software and closed-protocols; the kind of people who are going to be interested in seeking out those types of alternatives are going to gravitate toward techy men.
It takes time for new social media sites to fan outward from their initial adopters, that's just how it goes.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to SolarMonkey • • •jagged_circle
in reply to catloaf • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to jagged_circle • • •aesthelete
in reply to catloaf • • •Serinus
in reply to catloaf • • •No, they're not.
Doesn't matter if you stay away from .ml.
Kind of valid, but open source and open license negates a lot of that.
You think anything else on the Fediverse is better? When you post something publicly, it's public. Doesn't really matter what the software does. If you don't have End to End encryption, it's not private.
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petrol_sniff_king
in reply to Serinus • • •And they are. They have delisted Lemmy as a recommendation.
It's really bad PR. I don't recommend Lemmy to people because of this shit.
If their servers delete content you want deleted, yes.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to petrol_sniff_king • • •It's the case for Lemmy
github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy-ui/i…
[Bug]: Delete Account should delete uploaded media (pictures) too · Issue #2384 · LemmyNet/lemmy-ui
GitHubpetrol_sniff_king
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •ZeroOne
in reply to catloaf • • •teohhanhui
Unknown parent • • •So far I haven't found a better alternative. Lemmy communities are already much smaller than their Reddit counterparts.
Personally, I don't plan to venture into even more remote locations. It defeats the community part of it...
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Max-P
in reply to teohhanhui • • •like this
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Azzu
in reply to Max-P • • •Rhoeri
in reply to Max-P • • •like this
falseprophet likes this.
Hoimo
in reply to Rhoeri • • •X is under total control of that person. As long as the lemmy source adheres to fediverse principles, this developer can believe whatever they want and run their instance however they want, and no one else has to care. If his beliefs starts affecting the lemmy source, it's always an option to fork.
If you exclude a branch of the fediverse because of one bad instance, you're missing the point of the fediverse.
Rhoeri
in reply to Hoimo • • •And you’re missing the point of my point.
If people who don’t already know how lemmy is run, are curious and read that shit and think the owner/operator of lemmy is a huge douchebag tankie that deletes/bans everything he doesn’t like… it bodes poorly for new people coming to lemmy.
So therefore- the rest of us are guilty as a result of association with the aforementioned douchebag.
Serinus
in reply to Max-P • • •like this
☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ likes this.
InFerNo
in reply to Serinus • • •katy ✨
in reply to Max-P • • •Sunshine (she/her)
Unknown parent • • •You’re good, just block Lemmy.ml.
The code is open source. Everyone can read it.
like this
Fitik and realcaseyrollins like this.
inlandempire
in reply to teohhanhui • • •like this
falseprophet likes this.
massive_bereavement
in reply to teohhanhui • • •like this
Fitik, haverholm, Pamasich, originalucifer, andyburke, _NetNomad, giantpaper and falseprophet like this.
osaerisxero
in reply to massive_bereavement • • •like this
andyburke and giantpaper like this.
massive_bereavement
in reply to osaerisxero • • •like this
osaerisxero, andyburke and giantpaper like this.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to massive_bereavement • • •like this
osaerisxero, andyburke and massive_bereavement like this.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to massive_bereavement • • •like this
massive_bereavement likes this.
massive_bereavement
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to massive_bereavement • • •like this
osaerisxero and massive_bereavement like this.
osaerisxero
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •like this
massive_bereavement and falseprophet like this.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to osaerisxero • • •like this
osaerisxero and massive_bereavement like this.
teohhanhui
Unknown parent • • •kbin is abandonware: hachyderm.io/@maegul/112929613…
Found a related post: lemmy.world/post/22523493
maegul (@maegul@hachyderm.io)
Hachyderm.iolike this
realcaseyrollins likes this.
mesa
in reply to inlandempire • • •RmDebArc_5
in reply to teohhanhui • • •like this
haverholm and falseprophet like this.
Bezier
in reply to teohhanhui • • •like this
haverholm and falseprophet like this.
cm0002
in reply to teohhanhui • • •It's almost certainly because of the tankie factory that is .ml and the fact that it's admins are all hard core tankies (including the main dev! And ofc the whole infamous Nutomic transphobe incident)
Coupled with the fact that a few of the biggest communities are on .ml does not bode well.
That's why I keep calling for a general boycott against posting content or comments on .ml communities.
.ml doesn't want growth, they want a tankie echo chamber, if anybody wants to actually see Lemmy grow at a healthy pace it starts with shuning the hostile tankies and their instances.
like this
realcaseyrollins, osaerisxero and andyburke like this.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to cm0002 • • •lemmyverse.net/communities?ord…
!linux@programming.dev is a good alternative to !linux@lemmy.ml
Lemmy Explorer
lemmyverse.netlike this
andyburke likes this.
cm0002
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Well I was going by subscriber count, but good to know that it's not as bleak going by (probably more accurate metric to go by) MAUs, but still memes@lemmy.ml is #10 in the top 10
For memes either !memes@lemmy.world or !memes@sopuli.xyz is a good alternative to memes@lemmy.ml
like this
andyburke likes this.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to cm0002 • • •Isn't number 10 !politics@lemmy.world ?
Also, by the active numbers metrics, those other memes communities definitely took over the ml one
cm0002
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Skiluros
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Still many top tech communities (in their niche) are on ML. Open source, Linux, Privacy, Raspberry Pi, Firefox come to mind.
Several hexbear communities are also in the top 50.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Skiluros • • •I mentioned l
!linux@programming.dev already
The alternatives are there, most of the people just don't seem to care enough to leave the .ml ones
Are they? I see 2.6k monthly active users for !chapotraphouse@hexbear.net, which is definitely lower than top 50, seems more like 80 or 90, or even past 100 (currently on my phone, can't really count accurately, and Lemmyverse doesn't have row numbers)
Skiluros
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •I do use all the ML alternatives, but engagement is notably lower. I almost wish LW would just bite the bullet and defederate from ML.
Yeah, maybe more like top 100 for hexbear. I am on mobile too.
cm0002
in reply to Skiluros • • •I really don't understand why they won't, they did it with lemmygrad and hexbear but with .ml they wanna take this kid glove approach. The best theory I got is they don't want to because of the more active communities on there ig
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to cm0002 • • •Rhoeri
in reply to Skiluros • • •UltraGiGaGigantic
in reply to Skiluros • • •I get the feeling that even if you got what you wanted, you would still complain about .ml
Right now, you could block .ml personally. Have you blocked .ml?
Skiluros
in reply to UltraGiGaGigantic • • •I have not, no. There are still some technology communities that are only present on ML. Outside of those, I do not interact with ML.
And what's with your prima donna attitude? What exactly is the problem with calling out an instance run by genocide white-washing tankie scum?
FundMECFS
in reply to UltraGiGaGigantic • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Skiluros • • •Yes, I guess for tech people the political stances are irrelevant, they just want the most active communities
Having access to the devs via !lemmy@lemmy.ml and !lemmy_support@lemmy.ml is probably why
Lost_My_Mind
in reply to cm0002 • • •I mean......I joined that boycott months ago, and I don't think I've ever seen you before this moment.
cm0002
in reply to Lost_My_Mind • • •Bro. I just posted a meme about it 3 days ago
And I post from time to time about it, enough that some of the more prominent .ml users have started to take notice lmao
I've also been consistently for weeks now cross-posting a ton of fresh (non-tankie anyways) content to the relevant non-.ml communities, it's like the bulk of my posts rn lol
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to cm0002 • • •occultist8128
in reply to cm0002 • • •walden
in reply to occultist8128 • • •term
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)occultist8128
in reply to walden • • •FundMECFS
in reply to walden • • •I think that’s a well done description.
US government policies aimed at extending American political, economic, and cultural control
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)kat
in reply to occultist8128 • • •like this
giantpaper likes this.
cm0002
in reply to occultist8128 • • •Generally, those who praise authoritarian regimes who mask, or attempt to, themselves in the cloak of communism/socialism e.g. China or Russia and are SUPER anti-West (Parroting views of the China Russian regime)
Which comes with a whole host of shit takes, like Russia being justified in their invasion or even denying Tiennamen Square and definitely denying the China Uyghur genocide
Basically, they've gone so far left they've circled back into Right-wing authoritarianism
like this
giantpaper likes this.
UltraGiGaGigantic
in reply to cm0002 • • •InFerNo
in reply to cm0002 • • •ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝
in reply to cm0002 • • •Sunshine (she/her)
Unknown parent • • •teohhanhui
in reply to RmDebArc_5 • • •If I could use a single identity across the whole Fediverse, I would. Unfortunately, that's not a reality yet.
So we're forced to choose instances (i.e. "home servers"). And for me, that means I'd only choose to stick with the largest ones, as they have the highest chances of providing me with a sort of permanence.
I don't see any big mbin instances:
* joinmbin.org/servers
* mbin.fediverse.observer/list
Fediverse Observer checks all servers in the fediverse and gives you an easy way to find a home.
mbin.fediverse.observerAvid Amoeba
in reply to teohhanhui • • •Removed Lemmy for the time being. mstdn.social/@feditips/1068… · jointhefediverse-net/jointhefediverse.net@54ecb3b
GitHublike this
Fitik likes this.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Avid Amoeba • • •Yes, that's quite old, not sure why OP is bringing this up now.
Most of the people here know about the Lemmy devs political stances. Quite a few people are waiting for Piefed and Mbin to catch up. Nothing new to see here.
like this
Fitik likes this.
teohhanhui
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •I don't know. I just came across it yesterday, and I thought it'd be something interesting to share.
It was explained in the post's body actually:
Seeing as I've only started using Lemmy less than a month ago, I've only just very recently started realizing that.
like this
atro_city likes this.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to teohhanhui • • •It's okay, I see your account is quite new, so no worries.
As I said, those issues are known, you can have a look at !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com for posts complaining about power tripping mods, be it lemmy.ml or elsewhere.
The key takeaway is that even with its flaws, Lemmy is the biggest Reddit alternative by far (Discuit has less than 200 weekly active posters, Lemmy has 42000). If there would have been a better alternative people would probably have moved there, but there wasn't (and still isn't) any, so here we are
like this
Fitik likes this.
Lost_My_Mind
in reply to teohhanhui • • •This was like me months ago. A lot of people here take the mentality of "Well I know about it, so it MUST be common knowledge that everybody knows!"
Completely forgetting that there are 8 billion people on the planet, and something like 65k people on lemmy. Statistically speaking, this means basically nobody in the entire planet knows about lemmy, or the issues with lemmy.ml.
So for every NEW user, this is ALWAYS new info. It's not like facebook where I don't have an account, but already know zuck's a massive piece of shit.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Lost_My_Mind • • •The question is more "how many people on Lemmy know about the ml political stance"
Posts like this (feddit.org/post/3912054) with 205 comments show that most of the people are usually aware.
For new joiners, there is a post on !newtolemmy@lemmy.ca about this.
teohhanhui
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •FWIW: I used join-lemmy.org and found lemmy.ml, submitted my registration, but then checked on Wikipedia and it says lemmy.world is the largest instance, so I wanted to cancel my registration for lemmy.ml (there's no such feature according to the admin). Anyway, that's how I ended up here on lemmy.world 😆
Did not notice any of the political leanings until just a few days ago, so it's definitely not obvious unless you look deeper into things.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to teohhanhui • • •As I said, you're new here.
I bring up the topic regularly on /r/Redditalternatives: reddit.com/r/RedditAlternative…
Every time I mention Lemmy there, I point to discuss.online and sopuli.xyz: reddit.com/comments/1hxduw2/co…
It is also part of a dedicated post on !newtolemmy@lemmy.ca : lemmy.world/post/21568033
We could probably improve its visibility.
FuzzyWeevil
in reply to teohhanhui • • •teohhanhui
in reply to FuzzyWeevil • • •jagged_circle
in reply to teohhanhui • • •UltraGiGaGigantic
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Block .ml
Block me
Who cares how others use Lemmy? I don't. Feel free to make another feud post this week. Stick it to us champ!
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to UltraGiGaGigantic • • •I do, because I would like Lemmy to reach 100k monthly active users, so that other posters can join communities I keep alive. Lemmy.ml reputation is detrimental to this.
On the other hand, I respect the Lemmy devs as developers, just not as admins.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to teohhanhui • • •like this
originalucifer likes this.
deus
in reply to teohhanhui • • •osaerisxero
in reply to teohhanhui • • •teohhanhui
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •unknown1234_5
in reply to teohhanhui • • •like this
haverholm likes this.
haverholm
in reply to teohhanhui • • •unknown1234_5
in reply to teohhanhui • • •like this
originalucifer, andyburke, Fitik, jwr1, dcpDarkMatter, FaceDeer and giantpaper like this.
kat
in reply to unknown1234_5 • • •unknown1234_5
in reply to kat • • •jwr1
in reply to unknown1234_5 • • •like this
giantpaper likes this.
unknown1234_5
in reply to jwr1 • • •I also sometimes have an issue where up/downvoting makes a thing pop up saying "null check operator used on null value". it also happened when trying to unfollow a community from an instance I had recently blocked.
like this
jwr1 likes this.
jwr1
in reply to unknown1234_5 • • •like this
unknown1234_5 likes this.
unknown1234_5
in reply to jwr1 • • •jwr1 likes this.
jwr1
in reply to unknown1234_5 • • •I'm a bit confused then; there should be a loading indicator that displays once the button is pressed, which prevents you from tapping it multiple times. It should look like this now:
.
If this isn't too much work, the next time you have the null check error show up, would you be able to comment back here (or dm me) with exactly what you did, including which post/comment it was you were interacting with?
unknown1234_5
in reply to jwr1 • • •unknown1234_5
in reply to unknown1234_5 • • •like this
jwr1 likes this.
Flax
in reply to teohhanhui • • •like this
atro_city likes this.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to Flax • • •like this
atro_city and Fitik like this.
jagged_circle
in reply to Flax • • •They may be your tankis, but they sure arent our tankies.
They can fuck right off
like this
falseprophet and TheObviousSolution like this.
GrammarPolice
in reply to jagged_circle • • •like this
falseprophet likes this.
Flax
in reply to jagged_circle • • •jagged_circle
in reply to Flax • • •Doing a pretty shit job at it.
I used to use reddit. Those devs made the same mistake, and I dont respect either.
like this
falseprophet likes this.
ChapulinColorado
in reply to jagged_circle • • •teohhanhui
in reply to ChapulinColorado • • •American computer programmer and internet-political activist (1986-2013)
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)jagged_circle
in reply to ChapulinColorado • • •Not listening to to community. We are the content creators on reddit. Reddit should have done as we asked. They threw us under the bus.
Lemmy devs dont listen to their community. Instance admins point out serious legal issues regarding moderation, and they say they don't fix those bugs because user privacy doesn't matter.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to jagged_circle • • •He admitted it he was wrong at the end of the ticket and fixed accordingly: github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy-ui/i…
[Bug]: Delete Account should delete uploaded media (pictures) too · Issue #2384 · LemmyNet/lemmy-ui
GitHubFlax
in reply to jagged_circle • • •TheObviousSolution
in reply to Flax • • •thoro
in reply to jagged_circle • • •jagged_circle
in reply to thoro • • •As soon as Sublinks is live I will.
Lemmy is making the same mistake as Reddit, and they'll be an exodus when we have an alternative
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to jagged_circle • • •piefed.social/ is more promising, and almost there except mobile apps. Feel free to try it out.
baatliwala
in reply to Flax • • •Flax
in reply to baatliwala • • •ChapulinColorado
in reply to Flax • • •teohhanhui
in reply to unknown1234_5 • • •I'm not new to the Fediverse, so yes, I'm aware of that, and also of the drama that comes with defederation (lmao)
Or in other words, they're much less likely to just shut down without notice.
foggenbooty
in reply to mesa • • •The Thunder client is a godsend for Lemmy, I'm so happy with the work that developer has done. I feel like I'm still back on Reddit using Relay in the compact view.
For any of these alternatives to succeed mobile apps have to exist, and I doubt all the devs that popped up to make Lemmy apps want to retool yet again for a different platform.
Andrew
in reply to foggenbooty • • •It's not so much that we expect the developers of Lemmy apps to retool. The hope is that, if we can provide a sensible, well-documented API, then it will appeal to front-end developers looking for a project. Also, if there are any devs of Lemmy mobile apps who are unhappy with Lemmy's API for any reason, then getting involved with PieFed's whilst it's still in development, offers them a chance to shape one to their desires.
Speaking of Thunder though - I've been able to compile it for desktop, and get it working with PieFed's API in the state it's in now. I've no experience with Flutter / Dart or front-end development, so it suggests that - for open source Lemmy apps, at least - it doesn't need to be the original author who ports it, and that the actual details a particular API are only a relatively small part of creating a good mobile app.
kat
Unknown parent • • •kat
in reply to foggenbooty • • •kat
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •OsrsNeedsF2P
Unknown parent • • •TORFdot0
in reply to teohhanhui • • •like this
falseprophet likes this.
mesa
in reply to Andrew • • •Andrew
in reply to mesa • • •Rhoeri
in reply to teohhanhui • • •Rhoeri
Unknown parent • • •Rhoeri
Unknown parent • • •UltraGiGaGigantic
in reply to Rhoeri • • •Sounds simple right? But unfortunately several users seem to have difficulty in blocking .ml and continue to complain about us.
Don't worry yall, I got your backs.
Welcome to a tutorial on how to block .ml on your personal account.
In the top right corner of the top of the page, there are 3 horizontal white bars. Click it.
This will open up a drop down menu. At the bottom of that menu, you will see your username. Click it.
This will open another drop down menu with 3 options. Click "Settings".
At the top of your screen you will see 2 tabs. Click the one that says "Blocks".
Here you will see "Block user" "Block community" and "Block instance". Click the down arrow below "Block instance".
This will open up a search bar. Type "lemmy.ml" and click it after it shows up.
That's it! You've blocked .ml and will never see content from the instance. Now you don't need to make a feud post every day complaining about .ml and other instances you disapprove of. Think of all the time you will save!
But wait, we aren
... show moreSounds simple right? But unfortunately several users seem to have difficulty in blocking .ml and continue to complain about us.
Don't worry yall, I got your backs.
Welcome to a tutorial on how to block .ml on your personal account.
In the top right corner of the top of the page, there are 3 horizontal white bars. Click it.
This will open up a drop down menu. At the bottom of that menu, you will see your username. Click it.
This will open another drop down menu with 3 options. Click "Settings".
At the top of your screen you will see 2 tabs. Click the one that says "Blocks".
Here you will see "Block user" "Block community" and "Block instance". Click the down arrow below "Block instance".
This will open up a search bar. Type "lemmy.ml" and click it after it shows up.
That's it! You've blocked .ml and will never see content from the instance. Now you don't need to make a feud post every day complaining about .ml and other instances you disapprove of. Think of all the time you will save!
But wait, we aren't done yet in this menu. Click the down arrow under "Block user". Now type "UltraGiGaGigantic" Make sure you select my .ml account as the other ones I no longer use. Thanks, appreciate it.
UltraGiGaGigantic
in reply to teohhanhui • • •You can select "All" instead of "Local" and you will see all instances that are federated with yours. (Not the ones defederated).
I wish we could do the same in communities that have the same name. "All" gaming and you could see every instances gaming community. Or select "Local" to see your instance only.
UltraGiGaGigantic
Unknown parent • • •aesthelete
in reply to teohhanhui • • •rarbg
in reply to teohhanhui • • •like this
Ziggurat likes this.
teohhanhui
in reply to rarbg • • •Clot
in reply to teohhanhui • • •don't like this
☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ doesn't like this.
ZeroOne
in reply to Clot • • •Bilb!
in reply to Clot • • •Blaze (he/him)
Unknown parent • • •like this
TheObviousSolution likes this.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to UltraGiGaGigantic • • •teohhanhui
in reply to UltraGiGaGigantic • • •recreationalcatheter
in reply to teohhanhui • • •don't like this
☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ doesn't like this.
IIIllIII
in reply to recreationalcatheter • • •EllaSpiggins
Unknown parent • • •katy ✨
in reply to teohhanhui • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to katy ✨ • • •ikidd
in reply to teohhanhui • • •petrol_sniff_king
in reply to ikidd • • •FuzzyWeevil
Unknown parent • • •Lemmy.world has literal propaganda, too.
They posted a Radio Free Asia article and banned anyone who pointed out it's a government run CIA propaganda op. Even redditors know that's propaganda lol.
It's everywhere, you can't avoid it, you just have to learn to be discerning, media critical, and look into sources.
wpb
in reply to teohhanhui • • •"I'm gonna stop using GNU/Linux because I don't like Richard Stallman"
It's valid to dislike the devs (I disagree, I've found them nothing but courteous, and have read their posts with interest), but it's ridiculous to exclude their software from this list.
DudeImMacGyver
in reply to teohhanhui • • •LarsIsCool
in reply to DudeImMacGyver • • •Why was Lemmy removed from the list of fediverse alternatives?
Lemmy was removed due to:
Keep in mind that software is by no means "neutral". The people who make it make decisions about how it works based on their beliefs and goals. That's why, for example, you can't quote posts on Mastodon (at least for now), but you can do so on other fediverse platforms.
Removed Lemmy for the time being. mstdn.social/@feditips/1068… · jointhefediverse-net/jointhefediverse.net@54ecb3b
GitHublike this
fistac0rpse likes this.
DudeImMacGyver
in reply to LarsIsCool • • •like this
fistac0rpse likes this.
Blaze (he/him)
in reply to DudeImMacGyver • • •like this
jwr1 likes this.
DudeImMacGyver
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •like this
DudeImMacGyver likes this.
DudeImMacGyver
in reply to DudeImMacGyver • • •DudeImMacGyver likes this.
DudeImMacGyver
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Phegan
in reply to LarsIsCool • • •AItoothbrush
in reply to teohhanhui • • •Bob Robertson IX
in reply to AItoothbrush • • •AItoothbrush
in reply to Bob Robertson IX • • •surph_ninja
in reply to Bob Robertson IX • • •Would you drive a Ford? Because you should read up on Henry Ford’s beliefs if so.
How about BMW? Wanna talk about their history? Actually, give me a car company you like, and we’ll just dig into that one.
I wouldn’t drive a Tesla because they’re shitty cars.
petrol_sniff_king
in reply to AItoothbrush • • •Bronzebeard
in reply to petrol_sniff_king • • •ZILtoid1991
in reply to Bronzebeard • • •ᴇᴍᴘᴇʀᴏʀ 帝
in reply to ZILtoid1991 • • •Don't give them ideas.
ZILtoid1991
in reply to AItoothbrush • • •At least one people involved with the ballpoint pen was Jewish, so there's that.
thoro
in reply to teohhanhui • • •/c/fediverse?
More like /c/lemmy_FUD or /c/lemmyalternatives.
Does a week go by without posts here spreading FUD about the platform and developers and with the comment section advertising all the alternatives?
If you don't want to be on this platform, you can leave.
lambalicious
Unknown parent • • •EllaSpiggins
Unknown parent • • •TheObviousSolution
in reply to teohhanhui • • •Their claims regarding privacy are really not surprising, it's very on-brand for the developer's ideology to eliminate transparency for users in the platform while keeping everything stored and federated in the back end for the ruling elite, which if and when they decide to, become the arbiters of who can and won't see it. They haven't even bothered to provide any form of recourse to contest it, you basically have to go looking for people yourself. At least until mod member lists are made private too.
I fully agree with their decision, Lemmy is transient at best. ~~They could still include Mbin, but why include a loaded deck?~~ Actually, decided to check, yep, they did, kudos to them, they really did think it through.
Downvote all you want, still ain't gonna change that jointhefediverse.net decision (based as fuck) 😂
superkret
in reply to TheObviousSolution • • •like this
fistac0rpse likes this.
TheObviousSolution
in reply to superkret • • •LandedGentry
in reply to TheObviousSolution • • •TheObviousSolution
in reply to LandedGentry • • •lukewarm_ozone
in reply to teohhanhui • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to lukewarm_ozone • • •They keep changing every few weeks, so I guess that's why people haven't summarized the differences.
Do you have any question in particular?
lukewarm_ozone
in reply to Blaze (he/him) • • •Blaze (he/him)
in reply to lukewarm_ozone • • •Blaze (he/him)
Unknown parent • • •If you are worried about the Lemmy codebase, there is piefed.social/
It's still another codebase you need to trust, but in this case the devs don't have specific political views