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jointhefediverse.net - Why was Lemmy removed from the list of fediverse alternatives?


jointhefediverse.net seems to be a commonly linked resource for directing people to join the Fediverse.

Curiously, it does not list Lemmy under the list of Reddit alternatives. Their GitHub README explains why.

Previous relevant discussion: lemmy.ml/post/78808

in reply to teohhanhui

Lemmy was removed due to:
- reports of how the developers handle certain types of content (post removed, view an incomplete archive)
- the behavior of its creator
- how the sotware itself handles users' privacy.


All valid concerns.

don't like this

in reply to catloaf

Point 1 and 2 really need to be addressed.

It would be so much better if lemmy wasn't developed by genocide white-washing tankies.

in reply to suoko

Yeah, I don't expect it to scale well. Certainly not as well as Rust.
in reply to Serinus

In terms of incoming federation, PieFed sites are dealing with as much activity as any general Lemmy instance. It's not happened yet, but I suppose it's possible that problems will become apparent if the amount of local users gets over a certain size. A limit on the amount of users per instance isn't necessarily a bad thing though (it's cheap, and hopefully easy enough, for someone to spin up another one).
in reply to Andrew

What's going to cause problems? Python, the db, redis or other?
in reply to suoko

It uses postgres for the DB - I think that and redis are designed to operate at very large scales, so it wouldn't be them.

My guess would be that it's something in the interpreted nature of Python - this seems to be why a familiar dismissal of PieFed is a concern about how it will scale.

That said, this site shows that Python is the most popular language for Fediverse apps (just), the likes of Mastodon are written in another interpreted language (Ruby), and I think there are more big websites running Python (with Django or Flask) than people realise. So I don't know, really, I'm just following other people's lead on this. I don't imagine that any problems would be insurmountable though: an admin could restrict the amount of signups, or if new users mean a few more donations, they could just throw money at the problem (more cycles for one server, or splitting up tasks across multiple servers).

in reply to Andrew

If you consider all AI-chat sites are running on python, I guess python scales with no issue at all
in reply to kat

No, it's not geared up for that. There's a platform called sublinks where the intention is to be initially compatible enough with Lemmy that it can be a drop-in replacement, but they haven't released anything yet.
in reply to Andrew

but they haven’t released anything yet


And with their current pace, it seems likely they never will. There's been no major development on it for months as far as I can see.

in reply to kat

Unfortunately migrating from one fediverse application to another on the same domain is actually basically impossible, due to the way ActivityPub works. It's very unfortunate.
in reply to SorteKanin

We built this whole place from scratch 18 months ago. We can do it again, especially when Lemmy instances would still be around and help to redirect people to the Piefed instances.
in reply to Blaze (he/him)

Well, in theory sure. But you always lose people during migrations, it's inevitable. And it's cumbersome for users. It's not a nice experience. The fediverse has enough bad UX as it is, I'd prefer if we didn't pile on more.

If the fediverse actually held true to the promise of easy migrations, then maybe it wouldn't be a big deal. But unfortunately it's still not really that easy.

in reply to SorteKanin

I see it happening gradually.

There might be a start with another Piefed instance (e.g. Piefed.zip, managed by Lemmy.zip admins). People who really don't want to use Lemmy would register on that instance, but would still be able to interact with the communities on Lemmy, the way Mbin and Piefed alreay do now. They start hosting a few communities onn Piefed.zip, locking other on lemmy.zip and redirecting people there.

Then over time some other admins want to give it a try. After a while a few Piefed instances make it to the top 10 most active instances, while the rest is Lemmy.

It doesn't have to happen overnight. We have time, people are not going anywhere.

in reply to Skiluros

Have you checked how muh software do you use that is enabled by capitalism?
in reply to lambalicious

You should ask it on lemmygrad.ml :D
This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to suoko

I mean, it would be one way to get them stuck chasing their own tail on an endless task...
in reply to lambalicious

Linux Foundation survives on Microsoft's financing. Firefox main source of income is Google's money. That's like pointing out that we breathe nitrogen. Yes, it is almost impossible to avoid capitalism because we live immersed in it as a society. But it's not an reason to stop pointing it out and trying to find more ethical and sustainable alternatives.
in reply to catloaf

The links from the github in case anyone wants to learn more (in order of the list):

web.archive.org/web/2021090102…

raddle.me/f/lobby/96713/heads-…

raddle.me/f/lobby/155371/warni…

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to sepiroth154

First link is completely unviewable for me on mobile, the entire thread is a chain of posts that say “Please don't use Lemmy :( Human rights, oppression” with a show more button that doesn’t work, and the original thread is gone. Could you(/someone) paste what it says? I’d try on desktop but our internet has been out since the fires started in LA
in reply to Blaze (he/him)

Thanks, fortunately I’m not in any evacuation zones, it’s just really bad air quality here
in reply to Catoblepas

in reply to catloaf

What is the issue with user privacy? These do not sound like valid concerns to me.
in reply to Fizz

Yeah, seems like it's just how ActivityPub works / how federated networks are.

Recently came across this very interesting writeup: gitlab.com/spritely/ocappub/bl… (via social.coop/@cwebber/113639985…)


I laid out the general scope of concerns and start of the shape of answers in a document called OCapPub a while ago gitlab.com/spritely/ocappub/bl…

The actual work is happening at
@spritely

One short note: the "global town square" model is a broken design, IMO. It's also very millenial.


in reply to teohhanhui

No that cant be why they do not list lemmy. The other services there federate in the same way.
in reply to Fizz

it's federated. It's the only way it can work. Everything still on that ist must suffer from the same thing. Federation means handing stuff to someone else. Once that's done, it's out of your hands forever.
in reply to vrighter

That cant be the issue because the site is called joinfediverse and everything it lists is federated.
in reply to Fizz

This is all quite old drama, and the issue itself is fixed now, but at one point someone kicked off about how if you uploaded a picture to Lemmy, there was no easy way to delete it (you could delete your post, but the image would still be there at whatever URL was created for it, and it wasn't even that easy for admins to find and remove it) - so I'm guessing that it stems from that.
in reply to Andrew

Its older than that, and still ongoing. The devs doubled down on how GDPR (and user data privacy rights in general) do not matter to them
in reply to jagged_circle

Source? I did a cursory search for "GDPR" on the GitHub issues and can't find anything like that.

Anyway, this seems to be their more recent stance:

For the future, any GDPR compliance advice needs to come from a lawyer, not from random non-lawyers interpreting what they think is correct.


github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issu…

in reply to teohhanhui

I dont know what you mean. If you search for GDPR (including closed tickets) in both the Lemmy and lemmy-ui repos, you'll see lots of bugs that make running Lemmy illegal for instance admins.

Here's one particularly egregious example

github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy-ui/i…

in reply to teohhanhui

He admitted it at the end of the ticket

Unfortunately there was some miscommunication in this issue and we failed to get to the root cause. In fact the Lemmy backend has an option to delete all content when an account is deleted. This used to be the default behaviour but was changed in 0.19 so you need to set a parameter delete_content. We failed to add a checkbox for this parameter to lemmy-ui.

However the checkbox is added now in #2385 and will be included in the next Lemmy release. Other frontends and clients may also need to adjust the delete_account api call.

in reply to catloaf

I hate it when people try to gatekeep like this. I don't need to be handheld. If there's a Fediverse alternative to something and it mostly works, it should be on the website. Anything less is not useful at best.

Edit: I say this as someone who has historically criticized the behavior of the devs as well as multiple Lemmy communities BTW.

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to realcaseyrollins

Well, since you've vocally criticised the developers and they haven't bothered changing their ways, wouldn't you agree they deserve to be gatekept?

On the other hand, it's not for you to decide the criteria for what is included on jointhefediverse's curated list. I personally think it is a perfectly reasonable judgement call they've made.

in reply to haverholm

It's kind of a tradeoff. As much as I like Mbin, it's not at feature parity with Lemmy yet, having only one mobile app is probably a deal breaker to a lot of users.
in reply to haverholm

No, I don't. If it's about instances I'd understand it a bit more, even though I wouldn't entirely agree with that either (I'm a free speech stan), but this is a page listing Fediverse alternative software. The software is fine and relatively untainted from the intentions of the Lemmy devs from what I can tell (although that was not originally the case). They deserved to be criticized, but not censored from Fediverse articles listing alternatives to big tech platforms.
in reply to realcaseyrollins

It's not "censorship" when somebody decides to omit a software from a curated list over the developers' horrible takes. See also Soapbox.

Edited to add: Free speech does not obligate anybody to boost or acknowledge subjects that they disagree with.

in reply to haverholm

Generally fair point. My issue though is that most people will just go to this website and won't consider other lists or websites, viewing this as the definitive list of Fediverse alternatives. Someone not putting someone's software on their website isn't technically censorship, true (this is the other coin of free speech), it does effectively censor Lemmy from the general conversation about Fediverse alternatives.
in reply to realcaseyrollins

Lemmy is bigger by a LOT (LIKE A LOT) than mbin and piefed. So don't see how Lemmy is losing the strong grip it already has on this type of fediverse. Heck, google reddit alternatives and Lemmy is also king.

This change on that site was in 2023. It's 2025. So it has not impacted Lemmy's user base.

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to realcaseyrollins

Do most people go to jointhefediverse, though? Honest question, I don't know the site's traffic stats vs fediverse.to or fediverse.party (which both show up way above jointhefediverse in my duckduckgo search). It's not like an authoritative index or search engine blackballed Lemmy, it is literally about a single grassroots site.
in reply to haverholm

It's the first one I always see whenever I look up lists of Fediverse alternatives and I always end up on the site. I use fedidb.org but I don't use it to find Fediverse software.
in reply to haverholm

Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information. This may be done on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or "inconvenient". Censorship can be conducted by governments and private institutions. When an individual such as an author or other creator engages in censorship of their own works or speech, it is referred to as self-censorship. General censorship occurs in a variety of different media, including speech, books, music, films, and other arts, the press, radio, television, and the Internet for a variety of claimed reasons including national security, to control obscenity, pornography, and hate speech, to protect children or other vulnerable groups, to promote or restrict political or religious views, and to prevent slander and libel.


  • Wikipedia

They are suppressing information about the fediverse based on political views. They had it up and then they took it down. Please explain how this is not censorship. I don't know where people get the idea that censorship is an inherently negative thing.

in reply to Ulrich

In the encyclopedic sense, you're right. In this context that I replied to, however, censorship had a negative connotation, and my response spoke to that rather than the formal meaning.

I don't know where people get the idea that censorship is an inherently negative thing.


Right, and I do note that you talk about jointhefediverse "suppressing" Lemmy — another negative connotation.

I'll maintain that, no, they are just leaving it out. Again, that is the privilege of a list curator. Nobody else have a say in what and why is included on the site. Choosing what to publish, and the omissions that entails, are also protected by free speech.

in reply to haverholm

that is the privilege of a list curator.


It can be their privilege and also be censorship. You seem to imply otherwise.

in reply to Ulrich

Do I? You seem to enjoy pedantic hairsplitting, but I fail to see where you're going with this.
in reply to Ulrich

Yeah you're right of course, it is censorship. It just happens to be positive. Although, I'd argue that maybe it isn't based on political or religious views, rather on not wanting to give someone a bad impression of the fediverse and make them leave again? As in, self-serving interests?
in reply to Carighan Maconar

I'd argue that maybe it isn't based on political or religious views


The main argument I see against Lemmy devs is that they're "tankies", which is most certainly political. And I agree. Except that there's nothing in the software itself that is political. Only the devs, and many of the .ml communities and users.

in reply to haverholm

over the developers’ horrible takes


Is that really what all this protest is over? Someone's 'horrible takes'?

in reply to archomrade [he/him]

Well, horrible genocide apology takes, TBF. I didn't mean to downplay the gravity of the points they bring up in the archived mastodon thread.
in reply to haverholm

Yea, but that kinda nails the pettyness of it, doesn't it? They don't even gain anything by having people adopt their software, nor do they suffer a loss by a boycott - and it's all because they have some questionable (to put it charitably) opinions about an entirely unrelated political issue.

The thing that gets me is that launching this diatribe over the developer's political opinions on an open sourced project that's built specifically so that no one group or person has control over the platform - that you have complete control over the instances you federate with - ends up looking an awful lot like protesting public libraries over providing access to 'woke' books.

in reply to realcaseyrollins

How is this censorship though?

You can always start joinfediversefreespeechstan.io or whatever. The code is even available, no?

I could never understand american-style preference for "free speech" themed theatrics.

in reply to Skiluros

Because as the leading "Fediverse alternative" website, it essentially tells the viewer that Lemmy doesn't exist, which I think does a disservice to prospective Fediverse users.

But yes good point, anyone can make an alternative website, I think right wing people made like a fuckgab.com site back in the day to recommend Gab alternatives on the Fediverse.

in reply to realcaseyrollins

Where does it say "Lemmy doesn't exist"? The admins of the site are well within their right to curate what service they include. I say this as someone who uses Lemmy a lot and really wants there to be a non-corporate, competition-focused alternative (instances, UIs) to reddit specifically and oligarch run social networks in general.

I don't understand how "censorship" plays into this (beyond shallow polemical grandstanding). Where is the censorship?

don't like this

in reply to haverholm

Well, since you've vocally criticised the developers and they haven't bothered changing their ways, wouldn't you agree they deserve to be gatekept?


No. In fact, I strongly dislike that whole attitude of 'do what I want or else I will cancel you'. I am not the arbiter of what is ultimately right and wrong and neither are you and neither is parent commenter.

I believe people have the right to make their own choice. And since Lemmy has significant user base and significant active discussion and thousands of communities, I think the users have the right to make that choice for themselves. Make them aware of the situation, make them aware of the potential downsides, make them aware that lemmy.ml is run by tankie assholes, maybe recommend some better instances, and let them choose for themselves.

That is why I like Lemmy and the fediverse as a concept. I can choose the instance that has the policies that I want. Among those policies is which other instances to defiederate from.

in reply to SirEDCaLot

I believe people have a right to make their own choice.


And yet you argue against the jointhefediverse curator's choice not to list whatever goes against their convictions?

As mentioned in another reply, Soapbox is an example of a Fediverse server software that often goes unmentioned because the developer is a giant MAGA hat. As the meme goes, they're the same picture.

in reply to haverholm

in reply to realcaseyrollins

I agree 100% with this. The developers or the operators of lemmy.ml may be assholes, but the beauty of decentralization is I can simply not use their instance. I do not.
Thus, while a warning label is necessary, I think more good is done by making people aware of the alternative to Reddit than by sweeping the whole thing under the rug.

As for user privacy, I'm not sure Lemmy is any worse than any other Fediverse app. There were a couple of bad things like being unable to delete a hosted image, but that has been fixed.
Once again, warning label, not rug sweep.

in reply to realcaseyrollins

I mean the person maintaining this site just chose to not recommend it themself based on valid concerns. Nothing is stopping you from looking into lemmy and using it anyways.

don't like this

in reply to catloaf

To me the first one is an instance problem (ml, hexbear?), and not a lemmy problem. It has looked like they've been trying to separate the two as much as possible.
in reply to Bezier

Unfortunately, .ml is a default instance and the main devs instance, what happens there reflects on all of us
in reply to Blaze (he/him)

I don't see it on that page. Going to "See all servers" lists "lemmy.ml" at a random position in the list. Looking at "Join a server" and using "Generic" or "All topics" also lists it in a random position. Am I missing something?
This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to Avid Amoeba

If you use "Most active", it will shows up after lemm.ee and the other big instances. So not default, but would still be recommended to new joiners
in reply to Blaze (he/him)

Well to me that doesn't fit the "it's default" description.

While looking at that, I couldn't see lemmy.world on that page. I found that join-lemmy.org now excludes instances with >30% user share in order to dampen centralisation. Which makes sense I guess.

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to cm0002

To me, the only solution to this is to do a hard fork. Take the code (It's AGPL), rename it if Lemmy is trademarked, and encourage admins to use it and contributors to target it. Maybe start a non-profit or LLC while we're at it.
in reply to unalivejoy

Good luck finding Rust devs interested in link aggregators. That fork would probably fall behind, and people would switch back to Lemmy as they keep delivering features.

Mbin and Piefed use more popular languages and haven't caught up yet

in reply to Blaze (he/him)

Instead of trying to fork, maybe we try and go the Gotosocial way and make a MVP smol version. Something that can house 10 or so users. People can spin up whatever they want.

Honestly what I wouldnt give for a reddit theme on mastodon that uses their hashtags as the communities themselves. That would be cool in my opinion.

in reply to unalivejoy

To be honest, at this point forking the jointhefediverse website would probably be easier
in reply to cm0002

It was made very clear from the start that .ml was not meant to be a 'default instance'.
in reply to Rhoeri

How was it default? I've been here for years and in all that time, it was never default. It was one of the most popular, and the most widely shared, but that's not the same at all.
in reply to Rhoeri

If anything is too bad, it's .world being so prominent.

Half this comm's activity is spreading FUD about the platform and being a gathering place for all the people developing their alternatives to huddle and advertise those.

in reply to Rhoeri

But lemmy.ml isn't the most active, nor does it host the most active communities
- fedidb.org/software/lemmy
- lemmyverse.net/communities?ord…
in reply to Blaze (he/him)

I didn’t say it was the most active. I said it was the default. Which has been proven already by many others here.
in reply to Rhoeri

Where? the comments dismiss that statement, saying that it's just an instance among others

lemmy.ca/comment/13804330

If there is anything as a default instance, it's Lemmy.world


I don't see it on that page. Going to "See all servers" lists "lemmy.ml" at a random position in the list. Looking at "Join a server" and using "Generic" or "All topics" also lists it in a random position. Am I missing something?

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to Bezier

But the Lemmy project and specific instances are not so easily separated. From the archived mastodon thread:

lemmy.ml (the official Lemmy instance) resolves to the same IP address as lemmygrad.ml (the instance that contains the most disturbing material).

Lemmy.ml also federates with lemmygrad, and the devs advertise lemmygrad on their "join lemmy" site.

Do the Lemmy developers themselves run the lemmygrad.ml site? (Its main logo is a tank, incidentally.)


So yeah, newcomers are presented with a join-lemmy site that promotes Lemmygrad and Lemmy ML, both of which appear to be run by the Lemmy devs.

That pretty much makes it a Lemmy problem.

in reply to haverholm

On what basis can anyone declare one instance to be the 'main' one? I've seen a number of people claim the same thing about .world, but none of them need to be considered the 'main' ones. The entire motivation for the creation of the fediverse is to allow segmentation.... I think people simply want to make it an issue because without these little cross-community spats things get boring.
in reply to archomrade [he/him]

I agree that ideally the concept of "main instances" is beside the point in a federated network. Let's call them "flagship" or "onboarding instances" then, the initial ones set up by developers as proof of concept that usually get the most traction by way of being open for registrations the longest.

I think it's disingenuous to classify the decision to omit Lemmy from a list of fediverse software as "a spat", though. Bringing it up again 1½ years later probably fits the bill better.

in reply to haverholm

that usually get the most traction by way of being open for registrations the longest.


But lemmy.ml isn't the most active, nor does it host the most active communities
- fedidb.org/software/lemmy
- lemmyverse.net/communities?ord…

in reply to catloaf

The linked post given on the second point is a bit flimsy. It's basically saying that if you use evidence published by a person with shitty views, you must have them too. To me, that's absurd as claiming that referencing FBI statistics makes someone a federal agent.
in reply to catloaf

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to SolarMonkey

Same honestly. I never discussed politics on Reddit, but it's all the content that's here. Partly why I don't recommend it to anyone i know who uses Reddit. Most content just isn't normie-friendly here.
in reply to GrammarPolice

It’s so depressing and aggressive, honestly. I can’t do that to my friends who don’t do that already.
in reply to SolarMonkey

Have you been on Reddit lately? It's insanely depressing and aggressive, too. Even more so in my opinion. I used to be reddit addicted but it's so bot infested, mean-spirited, and kind of vapid and shallow that I get bored after the first page or two. Lemmy still has a long way to go but I've been having more fun and interesting conversations on here.
in reply to SolarMonkey

Lemmy is a horrible sausagefest echo chamber not at all suited to a normal average woman person who isn’t techie.


Far be it from me to point out this is exactly how reddit started.

The foundational promise of lemmy and the fediverse writ large is freedom from proprietary software and closed-protocols; the kind of people who are going to be interested in seeking out those types of alternatives are going to gravitate toward techy men.

It takes time for new social media sites to fan outward from their initial adopters, that's just how it goes.

in reply to catloaf

deleted by creator
This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to catloaf

No, they're not.

how the developers handle certain types of content


Doesn't matter if you stay away from .ml.

the behavior of its creator


Kind of valid, but open source and open license negates a lot of that.

how the sotware itself handles users’ privacy.


You think anything else on the Fediverse is better? When you post something publicly, it's public. Doesn't really matter what the software does. If you don't have End to End encryption, it's not private.

in reply to Serinus

Doesn't matter if you stay away from .ml.


And they are. They have delisted Lemmy as a recommendation.

Kind of valid, but open source and open license negates a lot of that.


It's really bad PR. I don't recommend Lemmy to people because of this shit.

You think anything else on the Fediverse is better?


If their servers delete content you want deleted, yes.

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to petrol_sniff_king

If their servers delete content you want deleted, yes.


It's the case for Lemmy

Unfortunately there was some miscommunication in this issue and we failed to get to the root cause. In fact the Lemmy backend has an option to delete all content when an account is deleted. This used to be the default behaviour but was changed in 0.19 so you need to set a parameter delete_content. We failed to add a checkbox for this parameter to lemmy-ui.

However the checkbox is added now in #2385 and will be included in the next Lemmy release. Other frontends and clients may also need to adjust the delete_account api call.


github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy-ui/i…

in reply to catloaf

No they're not, go back to school & relearn what FediVerse is
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
teohhanhui

So far I haven't found a better alternative. Lemmy communities are already much smaller than their Reddit counterparts.

Personally, I don't plan to venture into even more remote locations. It defeats the community part of it...

in reply to teohhanhui

That feels like complaints about lemmy.ml specifically more than Lemmy as a software. There's a few instances that defederate lemmy.ml out there.
in reply to Max-P

They can do whatever shit they want with their instance and believe whatever they want. The software they make provably doesn't have any more biases than any other software. As long as that's the case, I'm fine.
This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to Max-P

Yeah, but it’s guilt by association. Think about how X is now. Its owner is an asshole, and that hurts the platform regardless of how many cool people use it.
in reply to Rhoeri

X is under total control of that person. As long as the lemmy source adheres to fediverse principles, this developer can believe whatever they want and run their instance however they want, and no one else has to care. If his beliefs starts affecting the lemmy source, it's always an option to fork.

If you exclude a branch of the fediverse because of one bad instance, you're missing the point of the fediverse.

in reply to Hoimo

And you’re missing the point of my point.

If people who don’t already know how lemmy is run, are curious and read that shit and think the owner/operator of lemmy is a huge douchebag tankie that deletes/bans everything he doesn’t like… it bodes poorly for new people coming to lemmy.

So therefore- the rest of us are guilty as a result of association with the aforementioned douchebag.

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to Max-P

How much effort do you think Meta, Twitter, and Reddit put into getting open social media people to fight against themselves?
in reply to Max-P

it's complaints about the developer (which are valid) who also runs lemmy.ml.
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
Sunshine (she/her)

You’re good, just block Lemmy.ml.

The code is open source. Everyone can read it.

in reply to massive_bereavement

I'm a big mbin stan, but it's clearly the inferior software platform right now.
in reply to osaerisxero

I was mostly joking, I like that there are multiple options amd we can still interact with each other.
in reply to massive_bereavement

Having only one mobile app is already a deal breaker for some users
in reply to massive_bereavement

I was thinking about Interstellar indeed, is there another one?
in reply to Blaze (he/him)

I would sort of consider web as the other one, since kbin (and now mbin) were designed to play nice with mobile browsers, I use mbin on my phone via PWA and I'm pretty happy with it, aside from mbin UI issues which I keep kicking around the idea of fixing but have been lazy about it.
in reply to osaerisxero

I see, I usually use PWA myself, but I've heard quite a few people saying that apps were a deal breaker for them
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
teohhanhui

kbin is abandonware: hachyderm.io/@maegul/112929613…

Found a related post: lemmy.world/post/22523493

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to inlandempire

It certainly is! The only "bad" part is the lack of a mobile client. And it kinda looks funky on mobile.
in reply to teohhanhui

Then how about mbin?
This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to teohhanhui

It's almost certainly because of the tankie factory that is .ml and the fact that it's admins are all hard core tankies (including the main dev! And ofc the whole infamous Nutomic transphobe incident)

Coupled with the fact that a few of the biggest communities are on .ml does not bode well.

That's why I keep calling for a general boycott against posting content or comments on .ml communities.

.ml doesn't want growth, they want a tankie echo chamber, if anybody wants to actually see Lemmy grow at a healthy pace it starts with shuning the hostile tankies and their instances.

in reply to cm0002

Coupled with the fact that a few of the biggest communities are on .ml does not bode well.


lemmyverse.net/communities?ord…

  • 0 community in the top 10
  • 2 communities in the top 20


That’s why I keep calling for a general boycott against posting content or comments on .ml communities.


!linux@programming.dev is a good alternative to !linux@lemmy.ml

in reply to Blaze (he/him)

Well I was going by subscriber count, but good to know that it's not as bleak going by (probably more accurate metric to go by) MAUs, but still memes@lemmy.ml is #10 in the top 10

For memes either !memes@lemmy.world or !memes@sopuli.xyz is a good alternative to memes@lemmy.ml

in reply to cm0002

Isn't number 10 !politics@lemmy.world ?

Also, by the active numbers metrics, those other memes communities definitely took over the ml one

in reply to Blaze (he/him)

Still many top tech communities (in their niche) are on ML. Open source, Linux, Privacy, Raspberry Pi, Firefox come to mind.

Several hexbear communities are also in the top 50.

in reply to Skiluros

I mentioned l
!linux@programming.dev already

The alternatives are there, most of the people just don't seem to care enough to leave the .ml ones

Several hexbear communities are also in the top 50.


Are they? I see 2.6k monthly active users for !chapotraphouse@hexbear.net, which is definitely lower than top 50, seems more like 80 or 90, or even past 100 (currently on my phone, can't really count accurately, and Lemmyverse doesn't have row numbers)

in reply to Blaze (he/him)

I do use all the ML alternatives, but engagement is notably lower. I almost wish LW would just bite the bullet and defederate from ML.

Yeah, maybe more like top 100 for hexbear. I am on mobile too.

in reply to Skiluros

I almost wish LW would just bite the bullet and defederate from ML.


I really don't understand why they won't, they did it with lemmygrad and hexbear but with .ml they wanna take this kid glove approach. The best theory I got is they don't want to because of the more active communities on there ig

in reply to Skiluros

Everyone should defederate from that toxic shithole. It serves no purpose that isn’t duplicated elsewhere only without the heavy-handed admin/mod team.
in reply to Skiluros

I almost wish LW would just bite the bullet and defederate from ML.


I get the feeling that even if you got what you wanted, you would still complain about .ml

Right now, you could block .ml personally. Have you blocked .ml?

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to UltraGiGaGigantic

I have not, no. There are still some technology communities that are only present on ML. Outside of those, I do not interact with ML.

And what's with your prima donna attitude? What exactly is the problem with calling out an instance run by genocide white-washing tankie scum?

in reply to Skiluros

Yes, I guess for tech people the political stances are irrelevant, they just want the most active communities

Having access to the devs via !lemmy@lemmy.ml and !lemmy_support@lemmy.ml is probably why

in reply to cm0002

That’s why I keep calling for a general boycott against posting content or comments on .ml communities.


I mean......I joined that boycott months ago, and I don't think I've ever seen you before this moment.

in reply to Lost_My_Mind

Bro. I just posted a meme about it 3 days ago

And I post from time to time about it, enough that some of the more prominent .ml users have started to take notice lmao

I've also been consistently for weeks now cross-posting a ton of fresh (non-tankie anyways) content to the relevant non-.ml communities, it's like the bulk of my posts rn lol

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to cm0002

That's nice, thanks for your posts
This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to occultist8128

Same, no idea... Tank wearing people? Lol
in reply to occultist8128

Generally, those who praise authoritarian regimes who mask, or attempt to, themselves in the cloak of communism/socialism e.g. China or Russia and are SUPER anti-West (Parroting views of the China Russian regime)

Which comes with a whole host of shit takes, like Russia being justified in their invasion or even denying Tiennamen Square and definitely denying the China Uyghur genocide

Basically, they've gone so far left they've circled back into Right-wing authoritarianism

in reply to cm0002

Make your own instance and defederate .ml or any of the other instances you hate. Go nuts! Show us how it's done.
in reply to cm0002

I've said it before, but I joined this instance when Reddit closed the api and the only time I see "tankie" stuff is when someone mentions how rampant it is on this instance, but not on the instance itself. I guess I subscribe to non-tankie content (all across the fediverse and not only this instance).
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
Sunshine (she/her)
Searching for the instance and then tapping on the element gives you the menu that provides the option to block on the third party app Mlem.
in reply to RmDebArc_5

If I could use a single identity across the whole Fediverse, I would. Unfortunately, that's not a reality yet.

So we're forced to choose instances (i.e. "home servers"). And for me, that means I'd only choose to stick with the largest ones, as they have the highest chances of providing me with a sort of permanence.

I don't see any big mbin instances:
* joinmbin.org/servers
* mbin.fediverse.observer/list

in reply to Avid Amoeba

Yes, that's quite old, not sure why OP is bringing this up now.

Most of the people here know about the Lemmy devs political stances. Quite a few people are waiting for Piefed and Mbin to catch up. Nothing new to see here.

in reply to Blaze (he/him)

I don't know. I just came across it yesterday, and I thought it'd be something interesting to share.

It was explained in the post's body actually:

Curiously, it does not list Lemmy under the list of Reddit alternatives.

Most of the people here know about the Lemmy devs political stances.


Seeing as I've only started using Lemmy less than a month ago, I've only just very recently started realizing that.

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to teohhanhui

It's okay, I see your account is quite new, so no worries.

As I said, those issues are known, you can have a look at !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com for posts complaining about power tripping mods, be it lemmy.ml or elsewhere.

The key takeaway is that even with its flaws, Lemmy is the biggest Reddit alternative by far (Discuit has less than 200 weekly active posters, Lemmy has 42000). If there would have been a better alternative people would probably have moved there, but there wasn't (and still isn't) any, so here we are

in reply to teohhanhui

This was like me months ago. A lot of people here take the mentality of "Well I know about it, so it MUST be common knowledge that everybody knows!"

Completely forgetting that there are 8 billion people on the planet, and something like 65k people on lemmy. Statistically speaking, this means basically nobody in the entire planet knows about lemmy, or the issues with lemmy.ml.

So for every NEW user, this is ALWAYS new info. It's not like facebook where I don't have an account, but already know zuck's a massive piece of shit.

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to Lost_My_Mind

The question is more "how many people on Lemmy know about the ml political stance"

Posts like this (feddit.org/post/3912054) with 205 comments show that most of the people are usually aware.

For new joiners, there is a post on !newtolemmy@lemmy.ca about this.

in reply to Blaze (he/him)

FWIW: I used join-lemmy.org and found lemmy.ml, submitted my registration, but then checked on Wikipedia and it says lemmy.world is the largest instance, so I wanted to cancel my registration for lemmy.ml (there's no such feature according to the admin). Anyway, that's how I ended up here on lemmy.world 😆

Did not notice any of the political leanings until just a few days ago, so it's definitely not obvious unless you look deeper into things.

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to teohhanhui

As I said, you're new here.

I bring up the topic regularly on /r/Redditalternatives: reddit.com/r/RedditAlternative…

Every time I mention Lemmy there, I point to discuss.online and sopuli.xyz: reddit.com/comments/1hxduw2/co…

It is also part of a dedicated post on !newtolemmy@lemmy.ca : lemmy.world/post/21568033

We could probably improve its visibility.

in reply to teohhanhui

You can have multiple accounts on multiple instances. In fact, I recommend it. No need to delete your ml account, just keep it as a backup or curate a different feed on it.
in reply to FuzzyWeevil

I'm way too lazy for that. I don't even have more than 1 email account. I use the same username everywhere lol...
in reply to Blaze (he/him)

Block .ml

Block me

Who cares how others use Lemmy? I don't. Feel free to make another feud post this week. Stick it to us champ!

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to UltraGiGaGigantic

Who cares how others use Lemmy? I don’t.


I do, because I would like Lemmy to reach 100k monthly active users, so that other posters can join communities I keep alive. Lemmy.ml reputation is detrimental to this.

On the other hand, I respect the Lemmy devs as developers, just not as admins.

in reply to teohhanhui

fedia.io/ has 413 monthly active users, how big do you need the instance to be, especially when all the content is available there too?
in reply to teohhanhui

It's a shame kbin.social is no more. I guess Fedia.io is as big as it gets now.
in reply to teohhanhui

fedia.io is the 'big' mbin server, but they appear to have closed registrations at some point
in reply to Blaze (he/him)

Fair point, but at this time, I'm on mastodon.social and lemmy.world, i.e. some of the largest instances. I simply don't have much motivation to migrate.
in reply to teohhanhui

you are aware that you aren't restricted to things on your instance right? what your talking about is literally what the fediverse is. also who cares how big an instance is?
in reply to teohhanhui

kbin.earth and other kbin instances have migrated to mbin. Only the domain names remain the same.
in reply to teohhanhui

to anyone looking for somewhere other than Lemmy I'd like to suggest mbin. I'll admit it's not perfect (especially on mobile, interstellar is decent but it's the only app and has some bugs) but it handles reddit-style content pretty much the same as Lemmy except for the lack of read-marking on posts. as a bonus, it handles microblogs so you can see those without an account on mastodon or something similar.
in reply to unknown1234_5

I ran a kbin instance, which kbin forked, and man it was so resource heavy compared to lemmy. Quite expensive to run at scale. Has mbin fork helped with that?
in reply to kat

I'm not sure about self-hosting (not feasible for me right now) but as a user it's not bad. I can say I haven't seen anyone complaining about it yet.
in reply to unknown1234_5

What bugs/issues does Interstellar have that you would like to see fixed? I'm Interstellar's developer btw. I tried to get the majority of the know bugs fixed in the last big update. If there's anything specific you're running into, I can try to focus on that.
in reply to jwr1

the main one I'm still having repeatably right now is that sometimes when I go to post something, especially a comment, the button does not seem to work, so I press it again thinking I missed and it gets posted twice.
I also sometimes have an issue where up/downvoting makes a thing pop up saying "null check operator used on null value". it also happened when trying to unfollow a community from an instance I had recently blocked.
in reply to unknown1234_5

  • That was something I specifically tried to fix in the last update (the posting button not appearing to work). After the update, almost all buttons that connect to the api have a loading indicator now. Would you be able to verify you are on the latest version: v0.7.1.
  • I have seen that error before (null check), which I can definitely try to investigate, but I'll likely need more context (such as a post it happens on) to be able to figure out exactly what's causing the issue.
in reply to jwr1

I'm on the latest version. I've only seen the null check thing on stuff from other platforms but as mbin is fairly small thats just what I use, so I doubt it's related.
in reply to unknown1234_5

I'm a bit confused then; there should be a loading indicator that displays once the button is pressed, which prevents you from tapping it multiple times. It should look like this now: .

If this isn't too much work, the next time you have the null check error show up, would you be able to comment back here (or dm me) with exactly what you did, including which post/comment it was you were interacting with?

in reply to unknown1234_5

it does seem to have the loading thing, I'll reply again here if it still happens or maybe mention it on matrix (same username).
in reply to teohhanhui

Nutomic and Dessalines may be tankies, but they're our tankies
in reply to Flax

Good way to phrase it ha ha
in reply to Flax

They may be your tankis, but they sure arent our tankies.

They can fuck right off

in reply to jagged_circle

They are literally developing the platform we are on. Sure, I don't agree with their opinion at all, but it doesn't mean I can't respect their work.
in reply to Flax

Doing a pretty shit job at it.

I used to use reddit. Those devs made the same mistake, and I dont respect either.

in reply to ChapulinColorado

Not listening to to community. We are the content creators on reddit. Reddit should have done as we asked. They threw us under the bus.

Lemmy devs dont listen to their community. Instance admins point out serious legal issues regarding moderation, and they say they don't fix those bugs because user privacy doesn't matter.

in reply to jagged_circle

He admitted it he was wrong at the end of the ticket and fixed accordingly: github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy-ui/i…

Unfortunately there was some miscommunication in this issue and we failed to get to the root cause. In fact the Lemmy backend has an option to delete all content when an account is deleted. This used to be the default behaviour but was changed in 0.19 so you need to set a parameter delete_content. We failed to add a checkbox for this parameter to lemmy-ui.

However the checkbox is added now in #2385 and will be included in the next Lemmy release. Other frontends and clients may also need to adjust the delete_account api call.

in reply to Flax

That's because you choose to. You could easily move to mbin, for example. This post made me realize I had been holding back on it without a good reason.
in reply to thoro

As soon as Sublinks is live I will.

Lemmy is making the same mistake as Reddit, and they'll be an exodus when we have an alternative

in reply to jagged_circle

As soon as Sublinks is live I will.


piefed.social/ is more promising, and almost there except mobile apps. Feel free to try it out.

in reply to Flax

Not wrong lol. I dislike their behavior but still contribute code to lemmy.
in reply to baatliwala

Same, I am very opposed to their views, but they make this platform, so I respect them as FOSS developers
in reply to Flax

And the day that something bad in general about the code can be said? That’s when developers fork. It means something different to us.
This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to unknown1234_5

you are aware that you aren’t restricted to things on your instance right?


I'm not new to the Fediverse, so yes, I'm aware of that, and also of the drama that comes with defederation (lmao)

also who cares how big an instance is?

I’d only choose to stick with the largest ones, as they have the highest chances of providing me with a sort of permanence.


Or in other words, they're much less likely to just shut down without notice.

in reply to mesa

The Thunder client is a godsend for Lemmy, I'm so happy with the work that developer has done. I feel like I'm still back on Reddit using Relay in the compact view.

For any of these alternatives to succeed mobile apps have to exist, and I doubt all the devs that popped up to make Lemmy apps want to retool yet again for a different platform.

in reply to foggenbooty

It's not so much that we expect the developers of Lemmy apps to retool. The hope is that, if we can provide a sensible, well-documented API, then it will appeal to front-end developers looking for a project. Also, if there are any devs of Lemmy mobile apps who are unhappy with Lemmy's API for any reason, then getting involved with PieFed's whilst it's still in development, offers them a chance to shape one to their desires.

Speaking of Thunder though - I've been able to compile it for desktop, and get it working with PieFed's API in the state it's in now. I've no experience with Flutter / Dart or front-end development, so it suggests that - for open source Lemmy apps, at least - it doesn't need to be the original author who ports it, and that the actual details a particular API are only a relatively small part of creating a good mobile app.

Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
kat
Posts not being marked as read and lack of app support.
in reply to foggenbooty

Same feeling with Sync for lemmy. Basically the same experience of reddit I've been using for years.
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
OsrsNeedsF2P
I think it might help if you advertise it more too. I haven't heard of mbin in months and partially assumed it stopped existing
in reply to teohhanhui

It has mbin and piefed on the list, so it’s not harming the network at all. If anything it’s more healthy with more platforms rather than just ml and world. It’s one site directing people to the fedi, I’m not butthurt about it
in reply to Andrew

I'm guessing you had to make some changes? I get a url error when putting in piefed.social but the logo appears.
in reply to mesa

Oh yeah, sorry. I didn't mention that the API isn't available on production sites like piefed.social. I've been messing around with a build of Thunder on my dev instance, and - among other things - the app doesn't uses the same V3 endpoint that Lemmy does, so it'd always need to be a different version than the one that's currently available for Lemmy.
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
Rhoeri
Yep. And note how the other mods/admins are almost always found commenting alongside them.
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
Rhoeri
Not at all, just filter out .ml. Problem fixed!
in reply to Rhoeri

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to teohhanhui

You can select "All" instead of "Local" and you will see all instances that are federated with yours. (Not the ones defederated).

I wish we could do the same in communities that have the same name. "All" gaming and you could see every instances gaming community. Or select "Local" to see your instance only.

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to teohhanhui

It’s just a random person that registered a domain. Be the change you want to see and make your own?
in reply to rarbg

I mean, personally I don't disagree with that random person 😂
in reply to teohhanhui

Valid concern imo, Dev's are just dickheads
This entry was edited (11 months ago)

don't like this

Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
Blaze (he/him)
Switch to Piefed or Mbin?
in reply to UltraGiGaGigantic

That does not completely block an instance. Users from that instance would still show up in the comments.
in reply to UltraGiGaGigantic

I actually use "Subscribed" because I don't want to see posts from random communities. Haha...
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
EllaSpiggins
We do, because it’s open source
in reply to teohhanhui

hm, raddle.me / postmill looks promising though. is it federated at all? i haven't dived into the code enough yet but i'd love it as an alternative.
This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to teohhanhui

The reasoning they give is ludicrous. That's idiotic as saying because someone put up a pedophile website, Apache is the devil. Even if Apache were built by NAMBLA, if it's opensource and doesn't randomly insert pictures of naked kids into your website, how does the developer matter to the product?
in reply to ikidd

If Nambla owned Apache, I think Apache should be taken from Nambla.
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
FuzzyWeevil

Lemmy.world has literal propaganda, too.

They posted a Radio Free Asia article and banned anyone who pointed out it's a government run CIA propaganda op. Even redditors know that's propaganda lol.

It's everywhere, you can't avoid it, you just have to learn to be discerning, media critical, and look into sources.

in reply to teohhanhui

"I'm gonna stop using GNU/Linux because I don't like Richard Stallman"

It's valid to dislike the devs (I disagree, I've found them nothing but courteous, and have read their posts with interest), but it's ridiculous to exclude their software from this list.

in reply to teohhanhui

Could you, like, maybe post the explanation we're supposed to be discussing for context instead of making us go search for it?
in reply to DudeImMacGyver

Why was Lemmy removed from the list of fediverse alternatives?


Lemmy was removed due to:

Keep in mind that software is by no means "neutral". The people who make it make decisions about how it works based on their beliefs and goals. That's why, for example, you can't quote posts on Mastodon (at least for now), but you can do so on other fediverse platforms.

in reply to LarsIsCool

God damn it, of all the garbage people to quote, why did it have to be LaRouche
in reply to teohhanhui

This is so stupid. Did everyone stop using ballpoint pens because the inventor was a nazi? No.
in reply to Bob Robertson IX

But by buying a tesla youre giving elon money and promoting his product which is much more closely tied to his views than lemmy is to the devs views.
in reply to Bob Robertson IX

Would you drive a Ford? Because you should read up on Henry Ford’s beliefs if so.

How about BMW? Wanna talk about their history? Actually, give me a car company you like, and we’ll just dig into that one.

I wouldn’t drive a Tesla because they’re shitty cars.

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to AItoothbrush

Ballpoint pens don't spread nazi propaganda. I don't know where you thought this was going.
in reply to Bronzebeard

Well, at least pens don't have a proprietary algorithm by said nazi to make it not function when you want to write something that is not nazi propaganda, unlike things like Twitter, where the far-right is being boosted.
in reply to ZILtoid1991

at least pens don’t have a proprietary algorithm by said nazi to make it not function when you want to write something that is not nazi propaganda


Don't give them ideas.

in reply to AItoothbrush

At least one people involved with the ballpoint pen was Jewish, so there's that.

in reply to teohhanhui

/c/fediverse?

More like /c/lemmy_FUD or /c/lemmyalternatives.

Does a week go by without posts here spreading FUD about the platform and developers and with the comment section advertising all the alternatives?

If you don't want to be on this platform, you can leave.

Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
lambalicious
Next time, do something like suggesting that vaccines don't work, to entertain me.
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
EllaSpiggins
Personally, no. However the technical lead of our instance has, and in fact wrote and debugged some of it.
in reply to teohhanhui

Their claims regarding privacy are really not surprising, it's very on-brand for the developer's ideology to eliminate transparency for users in the platform while keeping everything stored and federated in the back end for the ruling elite, which if and when they decide to, become the arbiters of who can and won't see it. They haven't even bothered to provide any form of recourse to contest it, you basically have to go looking for people yourself. At least until mod member lists are made private too.

I fully agree with their decision, Lemmy is transient at best. ~~They could still include Mbin, but why include a loaded deck?~~ Actually, decided to check, yep, they did, kudos to them, they really did think it through.


Downvote all you want, still ain't gonna change that jointhefediverse.net decision (based as fuck) 😂

This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to TheObviousSolution

I have no idea what you're even trying to say.
in reply to superkret

I have no idea why that would be surprising or I should care.
This entry was edited (11 months ago)
in reply to LandedGentry

I would think so, given I'm actually replying, something the accounts with significant periods of inactivity or with simply no activity at all making upvotes/downvotes don't seem to be doing.
in reply to teohhanhui

Is there some feature comparison of lemmy vs mbin vs other reddit-like platforms? There was some major reason why I didn't like kbin, but I forgot why.
in reply to lukewarm_ozone

They keep changing every few weeks, so I guess that's why people haven't summarized the differences.

Do you have any question in particular?

in reply to Blaze (he/him)

I see. No, I don't think I have any specific questions at this point.
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
Blaze (he/him)

If you are worried about the Lemmy codebase, there is piefed.social/

It's still another codebase you need to trust, but in this case the devs don't have specific political views