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Is there a Lemmy server/way that doesn't require allowing javascript of a million other servers?


This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to awbvious

I respect your choices, but I am afraid modern web is mostly JavaScript. Can you actually browse anything with noscript today?
in reply to Shimitar

Absolutely. The vast majority of my sites do just fine when whitelisting only the primary domain. I consider it an essential add-on myself.

Lemmy is one of the few that needs a little babysitting, and it's only for the purpose OP stated.

in reply to Shimitar

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to awbvious

Unfortunately no. Lemmy is a web application. JavaScript is the only thing giving interactivity. Without it we'd load a whole new html page each time. Try middle clicking on image links to view them, should open a new tab. "It works on my machine" of course, but good luck though.
in reply to awbvious

I think the old Lemmy alternative frontend supports no JS. But I'm not sure whether the dev is still actively maintaining it: github.com/rystaf/mlmym
in reply to Blaze (he/him)

old.thelemmy.club/

Unfortunately with Lemmy 1.0 MLMYM (the software used to provide this UI) will have to be shutdown, unless the MLMYM dev re-appears or someone forks and maintains it.

in reply to bdonvr

Hopefully someone will volunteer to make compatible with Lemmy 1.0
in reply to bdonvr

someone forks and maintains it.


MrKaplan already forked it and is keeping it on life support for lemmy.world. I've been trying to make enough sense of it to fix several issues that have been bugging me for a while, and will contribute my fixes there if I can figure them out.

I've only got a few hours each weekend where I have good concentration + enough free time to work on it, and don't know the relevant languages (Go, Rust, TypeScript), so my progress is pretty slow... but I'm still poking at it.

in reply to e0qdk

Wow thanks for the info and the work. I don't use it much since 99% of my Lemmy use is on mobile and I prefer stock Lemmy for admin stuff, but I know at least a few of my users use it.

I'm going to see if that fork is something I can just drop in the docker compose file. That'll be awesome if so.

Do they intend to make it 1.0 compatible or is this beyond the scope right now?

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to bdonvr

I don't know what anyone else intends to do, but if I can fix the issues I'm currently looking at -- and no one else has stepped up in the interim -- I'll at least take a look at the 1.0 stuff. (I use mlmym and would like it to keep working...)
in reply to e0qdk

tbh it's probably not going to be too complicated to switch to 1.0. the current api is generated from lemmy-js-client, but 1.0 api has an official openapi file. if there is a decently usable openapi generator for go that would probably not be too complicated to swap in instead and adjust the api calls in mlmym code.
in reply to gedaliyah

Which is basically the same as old.reddit.com . Which is great as far as functionality. Squint and you can imagine it would be perfect. Zoom in and it's decent, except the thumbnails now are even more clearly 4-pixel potatoes. Okay, so where's my FOSS firefox extension that works like RES (Reddit Enhancement Suite)? Or, I actually don't need that, just a FOSS firefox extension that takes any old.lemmy and makes the layout look like the new layout, with toggles to turn off anything in the new layout you don't want (e.g. right side bar)? Or, maybe some custom javascript I can save in greasemonkey to make everything zoom 150% and replaces thumbnails with better compressed versions of their expanded versions (make my own thumbnails)?
in reply to awbvious

the thumbnails now are even more clearly 4-pixel potatoes


pictrs's thumbnail parameter uses dumb raw pixel sampling -- which leaves something to be desired... It has other sampling options implemented (with resize, according to the docs), but they don't seem to accessible on my instance. You can remove thumbnail=96 if you want to get the image without that thumbnail sampling, at least.

make everything zoom 150%


I do this with my browser's UI (ctrl-plus keyboard shortcut in FF-based browsers works for me).

e.g. right side bar


[...document.querySelectorAll(".side")].forEach(sidebar => sidebar.remove())

You could also just adblock the element with class side.

in reply to e0qdk

remove thumbnail=96


Hey, that sounds like a great idea, I bet I could add that to ublock origins. And, yeah, zoom via ctrl plus is what I do (I'm not sure if it is remembered between sessions). As for the side bar, it does not bother me, it was just as an example of what an extension theoretically could do. Honestly, another extension should not be needed. Instead a lemmy /c/ or other repository for user hacks would be nice that you could put into ublock origins or other DOM manipulator. That removing thumbnail sampling looks awesome, will try it out next time I'm on desktop.

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to awbvious

Yes.

PieFed uses very minimal javascript (it 95% works with JS entirely disabled) and you can access all the same communities and posts.

Try it at piefed.social or any of these other instances - join.piefed.social/try

in reply to Trinsec

Voting, lol. Kinda important.

Dropdown menus. They're not really needed but life sucks without them.

Can't manually switch between dark and light mode (only automatically based on browser settings).

There's probably more but I haven't seriously tried to use PieFed for long without JS. Fundamentally it's built HTML and CSS first, with sprinkles of JS added on for funsies rather than the modern way of being all about JS.

in reply to Rimu

This entry was edited (7 months ago)
in reply to Rimu

in reply to e0qdk

Yeah I think it'd be worth getting the voting buttons working, those are pretty key functionality.

The icons being stored in a font is kinda problematic (some browsers choke, large font file) but on the other hand it's so great being able to set the color of them in CSS, which I found difficult when they are a SVG.

in reply to Rimu

Looks nice is my immediate impression (looking at it with all javascript off, including ). Still would like thumbnails that are the entire image just much smaller, maybe via CSS. The cropping is very misleading on a lot of images. Perhaps one could use css-toggle-switch--not going to try to solution it, and I know last time I checked css wasn't great for it. But the results are notably different from lemmy.world for Active or Top past 12 hours. Not necessarily /bad/, particularly for top posts as they at least have a bit of engagement. But it seems like part of the solution is just don't incorporate results from servers that require javascript. Is it possible (ethical even) to incorporate them, but be a middle-man that saves the user from their javascript?
in reply to awbvious

In piefed.social/user/settings there are two different compact modes to choose from, which shrink the images to varying degrees.

I don't know of any way to determine how JS-heavy a link is.

in reply to Rimu

I'll try to play with it next time I'm on desktop. Thanks!
in reply to Rimu

Piefed is kinda awesome. Switched earlier in the year :)
This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to awbvious

Use a native app like a mobile client or Blorp if you're on Mac?
This entry was edited (7 months ago)
in reply to awbvious

I'm on lemmy.ml, it uses JS but it doesn't appear to load any from other domains. It serves images through a local proxy.
in reply to awbvious

I use the vger.app/ app / front end on mobile AND desktop and as far as I can tell it tunnels the images through their servers, so this is as minimal as you can get in regards to extra requests.
This entry was edited (7 months ago)
in reply to mnmalst

Some instances host this themselves too.

app.thelemmy.club/

in reply to awbvious

Noscript user here; we don't generally have that problem on fedia/mbin. It's mostly just mastodon "quote posts" and imgur that don't show up unless you allow their servers.
Unknown parent

lemmy - Link to source
shnizmuffin
That way is old and busted, here's the new hotness (anchor positioning).
This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to awbvious

This tbh.

I don't understand why is this not he standard for Lemmy and the Fediverse. We got here, among other things, to get away from the kind of crap enabled by JS-first web.

in reply to awbvious

doesn't require allowing javascript of a million other servers?

half the images are broken because I’m expected to allow scripts on like 30+ sites to see most of the posts


software like noscript is not exactly beginner friendly. you're expected to understand the impact of your blocking and what you are blocking. the only domain you need to allow JS from on lemmy.world is lemmy.world. standard lemmy-ui does not load any js or css from third party sources, only the domain where lemmy-ui is served. your noscript configuration is blocking the actual images, not javascript that would be required to load images.

edit:

to expand on this, even in tor browser in safest mode, lemmy.world works totally fine when all you do is allow JS from lemmy.world on lemmy.world:

This entry was edited (6 months ago)
in reply to Nothing4You

That looks cherry picked or very lucky. Can you show me a screenshot of Firefox with NoScript and allowing only lemmy.world and ANY other image from the first five results of the home page?
My result?
"The American Dream" discuss.online - BROKEN
"We are way overdue for an open source 2d printer" sub.wetshaving.social - BROKEN
"We never stood a chance." ani.social - BROKEN
"literally useless" lemmy.blahaj.zone - BROKEN
"Anime Recommendations" lemmy.dbzer0.com - Works (the one you show)
in reply to awbvious

nothing about this is cherry-picking. it's simply how lemmy works. there are no remote js sources. lemmy-ui even sets security headers that prevent loading js from third party domains.

in reply to Nothing4You

So, why does your image show the ani.social and mine doesn't? Remember I said Firefox. Sorry, too many years in dealing with these kinds of issues. Please show me a screenshot of the top of the browser so I can see it is Firefox and also expand out the noscript extension like you did before and show me the ani.social image expanded. I know your first image had a window header that did not look like Firefox. In fact you mentioned "tor browser" and I want to make sure we are talking apples to apples.
in reply to awbvious

in reply to Nothing4You

in reply to awbvious

For posterity. This is from today.

Environment
Firefox Browser 139.0.1 (64-bit)
NoScript 13.0.8
All other extensions disabled

A broken image, from Active on lemmy.world. Notably by a user named "Docker".
broken image

My noscript settings.

Unknown parent

piefed - Link to source
Rimu

Yeah. But in this case the Topics menu can be quite heavy as it lists every community that the current user is subscribed to. Instead of generating that menu (and sending it to the client) on every page load, when it probably won't even be used, PieFed makes an ajax call (only possible with JS) to retrieve the topics menu when it's clicked. Same for 'Feeds'.

This cut the amount of HTML being sent to the browser by around 50% (depends on how many communities you subscribe to but PieFed makes it extremely easy to subscribe to dozens of communities with a single click so many people have hundreds) and eased load on the server too. Some of the more under-powered instances run noticeably faster now.

in reply to Ademir

Mentioned elsewhere, and a decent workaround. Doesn't do well with thumbnails, unfortunately.

[edit: someone below suggested removing the thumbnail sampling (I'll probably try via uBlock Origins). Honestly with that and a bit of zoom, might work fine. Will be testing it.]

This entry was edited (6 months ago)