Microsoft’s latest security update has ruined dual-boot Windows and Linux PCs
Microsoft’s latest security update has ruined dual-boot Windows and Linux PCs
Microsoft has issued a security update that has broken dual-boot Linux and Windows machines. The update wasn’t supposed to reach dual-boot PCs.Tom Warren (The Verge)
like this
reshared this
Jeena
in reply to obbeel • • •Ensign_Crab
in reply to Jeena • • •like this
ignirtoq likes this.
Shadow
in reply to Ensign_Crab • • •Ensign_Crab
in reply to Shadow • • •like this
ignirtoq likes this.
octopus_ink
in reply to Shadow • • •PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S [he/him]
in reply to Shadow • • •Emphasis mine. Incompetence on Microsoft's part is not an adequate explanation for this latest action matching a pattern of other actions designed to antagonize FOSS users.
TheGrandNagus
in reply to Shadow • • •I hate this phrase.
A lot of the time, people (and especially monopolistic, tax-dodging, $3.2 trillion multinationals with a long history of anti-competitive behaviour) really are just cunts.
Time and time again, we see big companies doing anything they can to destroy competition, mislead customers, etc.
Never attribute to stupidity what can be adequately explained by malice.
NauticalNoodle
in reply to TheGrandNagus • • •Pup Biru
in reply to TheGrandNagus • • •stupidity is a once-off
malice is a pattern
and even if it’s not malicious, a pattern of stupid action needs to be stopped just as much as malicious action
deafboy
in reply to Pup Biru • • •🎶 ...this iiiiis my one an only wiiiiiiish! 🎶
0x0
in reply to TheGrandNagus • • •Microsoft business strategy in acquiring software platforms
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Fonzie!
in reply to Shadow • • •CeeBee_Eh
in reply to Shadow • • •just_another_person
in reply to obbeel • • •Ensign_Crab
in reply to just_another_person • • •MagnumDovetails
in reply to Ensign_Crab • • •I dual boot and am maybe considered a newbie. But I’ve had this set up for about a year slowly preparing to stop using Microsoft crap. It’s part of a longer path to digital privacy that was kicked into gear when the win 11 update made my Wi-Fi card disappear, like gone- like it was never installed. Fuck HP and Microsoft
Ironically I had disabled secure boot to try another distro. Was going to drop Ubuntu for something else, still might but no rush, plenty to learn.
obbeel
in reply to MagnumDovetails • • •MagnumDovetails
in reply to obbeel • • •ThunderChunk
in reply to MagnumDovetails • • •floofloof
in reply to ThunderChunk • • •Unquote0270
in reply to Ensign_Crab • • •Ensign_Crab
in reply to Unquote0270 • • •Unquote0270
in reply to Ensign_Crab • • •Ensign_Crab
in reply to Unquote0270 • • •It is, but anecdote is insufficient to counter it.
thingsiplay
in reply to obbeel • • •octopus_ink
in reply to thingsiplay • • •cmnybo
in reply to obbeel • • •like this
Rakenclaw and KaRunChiy like this.
xavier666
in reply to cmnybo • • •Microsoft breaks bootloader and nixes Linux partition
Microsoft: "patch seems to be working as intended"
Sentient Loom
in reply to obbeel • • •like this
KaRunChiy likes this.
0x0
in reply to Sentient Loom • • •Sentient Loom
in reply to 0x0 • • •h0bbl3s
in reply to obbeel • • •Kai DeLorenzo
in reply to obbeel • • •spaghettiwestern
in reply to obbeel • • •Not the first time. I thought a Windows 10 update wiped grub, but Microsoft actually deleted my entire Linux partition. Others have experienced the same thing.
Windows is required for a couple of apps I need with no alternatives, but the only way it runs on any of my computers is in a VM.
Linux Users Claim That Windows 10 Anniversary Update Deletes Dual-boot Partitions
Adarsh Verma (Fossbytes Media Pvt Ltd)Nick
in reply to obbeel • • •So they were trying to patch systems that use GRUB for Windows-only installs? What a load of BS. Why would anybody install GRUB to boot only Windows with that? Or am I overlooking something?
Furthermore, if GRUB has a security issue, they should've contributed a patch at the source instead of patching it themselves somehow.
I'm a bit stunned at the audacity of touching unmounted filesystems in an OS patch. Good thing Windows still doesn't include EXT4 and BTRFS drivers because they might start messing with unencrypted Linux system drives at this rate
like this
Lippy likes this.
Skull giver
in reply to Nick • • •like this
Lippy likes this.
murtaza64
in reply to Skull giver • • •EFISTUB - ArchWiki
wiki.archlinux.orgSkull giver
in reply to murtaza64 • • •murtaza64
in reply to Skull giver • • •Skull giver
in reply to murtaza64 • • •DacoTaco
in reply to Nick • • •I agree they should have sent a patch to the grub source, but keep in mind big software companies like microsoft, Verizon, ... do not normally allow their product teams to send a patch or PR to open source projects. This is because in their contract it states that all code written on and during company times is owned by the company. This means that it is impossible for them to make a patch or PR because it would conflict with the projects licence and fact its open source.
This changes when the team explicitly works on the foss product/project like the ms wsl team or the team working on linux supporting azure hardware, but that is an exception. I do not believe the microsoft kernel/bootloader team is allowed to send patches to grub.
Its a terrible thing, and it shouldnt be, but thats the fact of the world atm.
Pup Biru
in reply to DacoTaco • • •nous
in reply to DacoTaco • • •Top Five Linux Contributor: Microsoft
Steven Vaughan-Nichols (ZDNET)DacoTaco
in reply to nous • • •nous
in reply to DacoTaco • • •DacoTaco
in reply to nous • • •Not saying youre wrong, but you took the wrong project as an example hehe.
Visual code is not open source. Its core is, but visual code isnt.
The difference is what visual code ships with, on top of its core.
Its like saying chrome == chromium ( it isnt ).
Visual code comes with a lot of features, addins and other stuff that isnt in the core.
.net debugger for example, is not found in vscodium ( build of the vscode core ). And there is more stuff i cant think of now but have come across.
Source: been using vscodium for a few months instead of vscode
nous
in reply to DacoTaco • • •DacoTaco
in reply to nous • • •Also, its more complex than that. Some teams can, some cant. And if they can it all depends on what project or context. The business world isnt that cut and dry hehe
tired_n_bored
in reply to DacoTaco • • •DacoTaco
in reply to tired_n_bored • • •Also, youre telling somebody who has worked with big companies not allowing it in their employer contract that he is lying? Riiiight...
A lot of google devs also are not allowed to do any linux work outside of work without explicit permissions because of all the internal docs, teams and other work being done on linux from within google. Development rights is an absolute mess, legally.
I usually dont care and do what is right, despite what my emploter contract says, but i have gotten in trouble for it
Petter1
in reply to DacoTaco • • •They can forbid you to work on opensource stuff while being in free time? I mean, I understand that you are not allowed to generate open code that utilises private know how of the company you work for. But not working on Linux in free time seems very strange to me 😮
Edit: deleted wrong “Edit:”
JackDavies
2024-08-22 06:16:16
DacoTaco
in reply to Petter1 • • •And yes, some companies need to give you a green light to work on projects in your free time, because they might have a team doing similar things somewhere, it might compete in something they would like to do in the future or like you said, might use company know how which is a huge nono.
Its bs imo, but those clauses and rules are found in some employment agreements.
Remember, always read your employment agreements!
Petter1
in reply to DacoTaco • • •tired_n_bored
in reply to Petter1 • • •Yeah if you write proprietary code and then work on a similar project in your spare time, your company might sue you because you're likely reusing code you've seen or written at work.
For example Windows developers are forbidden from working on ReactOS
tired_n_bored
in reply to DacoTaco • • •I'm not saying you're lying, but you said
But this sentence in particular was misleading. Maybe you specifically did not have the right to do so, but in the Linux and BSD codebases there are a lot of @microsoft @netflix @oracle contributions, so at least there is someone in those companies authorized to do so
DacoTaco
in reply to tired_n_bored • • •Fair, and ill edit my post accordingly!
There are teams that are allowed, and within those companies are teams that are directly related to foss projects because those companies are in the foundation or supports of the foundation. However, thats doesnt mean every (product) team in the company is allowed to or that they can do or change whatever they like. Its a complex mess
tired_n_bored
in reply to DacoTaco • • •Amju Wolf
in reply to DacoTaco • • •That's not how it works. It just means the company owns the code for all intents and purposes, which also means that if they tell you that you can release it under a FOSS license / contribute to someone else's project, you can absolutely do that (they effectively grant you the license to use "their" code that you wrote under a FOSS license somewhere else).
Random Dent
in reply to Nick • • •z00s
in reply to Nick • • •umbrella
in reply to Nick • • •slembcke
in reply to obbeel • • •NauticalNoodle
in reply to slembcke • • •like this
andyburke likes this.
BigMikeInAustin
in reply to NauticalNoodle • • •Petter1
in reply to BigMikeInAustin • • •Petter1
in reply to slembcke • • •morbidcactus
in reply to slembcke • • •Legit have never had an issue with multi boot and windows like ever, tbf I don't go into windows that frequently anymore but it's never given me grief in at least a decade. I know my experience isn't universal though, so sorry to anyone who does have boot issues after windows updates.
In the worst case, could use bcdedit and use the windows boot loader (tbh I have no idea if that works here, but could be worth a try)
bcdedit
learn.microsoft.comIncogCyberspaceUser
in reply to obbeel • • •Wanting to start dual booting and moving to windows. Wondering if that helps at all.
Edit: I meant moving to Linux... >.>
JackDavies
in reply to IncogCyberspaceUser • • •I have the Linux disk as the primary boot, if I need to boot into windows i use the bios boot selection screen.
It's a bit of a pain at times(have to mash F12 to get the bios boot menu) bit it's less of a headache than trying to fix grub
Nik282000
in reply to JackDavies • • •Petter1
in reply to Nik282000 • • •JackDavies
in reply to Nik282000 • • •Petter1
in reply to JackDavies • • •IncogCyberspaceUser
in reply to JackDavies • • •0x0
in reply to IncogCyberspaceUser • • •IncogCyberspaceUser
in reply to 0x0 • • •0x0
in reply to IncogCyberspaceUser • • •Really depends on the virtualization technology, hardware, configuration and game. Not a gamer myself.
Gaming on linux has come a long way in recent years though, in no small part thanks to Steam.
obbeel
in reply to 0x0 • • •0x0
in reply to obbeel • • •MSYS2
MSYS2obbeel
in reply to IncogCyberspaceUser • • •merthyr1831
in reply to obbeel • • •like this
sunzu2 likes this.
Amju Wolf
in reply to merthyr1831 • • •I don't think dual boot has ever been a good solution (unless you also run one or both of the OS's under the other in a VM).
Like, if you are unsure about linux, trying it out, learning, whatever, you can just boot a live"cd", or maybe install it on an external (flash) drive.
If you are kinda sure you want to switch, just nuke Windows; it's easier to switch that way than to have everything on two systems, having to switch.
kameecoding
in reply to Amju Wolf • • •Freefall
in reply to kameecoding • • •kameecoding
in reply to Freefall • • •maniii
in reply to kameecoding • • •Wildly_Utilize
in reply to kameecoding • • •I recently moved from proton to a W11 KVM with my 4080 passed through.
Unfortunately those hostile GAAS probably would be able to detect and block you (I don't play those games)
Petter1
in reply to merthyr1831 • • •Metz
in reply to Petter1 • • •You can have a own EFI partition per Drive (and on it whatever bootloader you want). You then need to use the UEFI boot menu if you want e.g. boot the Windows one.
If you have 2 different OS on different drives they should never interfere with each other.
Well, i mean you could of course use the Linux Bootmanager to then forward to the Windows boot manager on the other disk. but i never experimented with that.
Petter1
in reply to Metz • • •CeeBee_Eh
in reply to Petter1 • • •The idea is to have completely separate boot and OS drives. You select which one you want to boot through the BIOS boot selection (ie. pressing F10 or F11 at the BIOS screen).
This functionally makes each OS "unaware" of the other one.
WolfLink
in reply to CeeBee_Eh • • •Unfortunately it really doesn’t. And it’s actually Linux that’s the bigger problem: whenever it decides to updates GRUB it looks for OSes on all of your drives to make grub entries for them. It also doesn’t necessarily modify the version of grub on the booted drive.
Yes I’m sure there’s a way to manually configure everything perfectly but my goal is a setup where I don’t have to constantly manually fix things.
CeeBee_Eh
in reply to WolfLink • • •If you install each OS with it's own drive as the boot device, then you won't see this issue.
Unless you boot Windows via the grub boot menu. If you do that then Windows will see that drive as the boot device.
If you select the OS by using the BIOS boot selection then you won't see this issue.
I was bitten by Windows doing exactly this almost 15 years ago. Since that day if I ever had a need for dual-boot (even if running different distros) each OS will get it's own dedicated drive, and I select what I want to boot through the BBS (BIOS Boot Selection). It's usually invoked with F10 or F11 (but could be a different key combo.
Crozekiel
in reply to WolfLink • • •My install does not seem to do this. I removed the windows drive when installing Linux on a new drive. Put both drives in and select which one to boot in the bios. Its been that way for about a year and, so far, grub updates have never noticed the windows install nor added to grub.
That's with bazzite, can't speak for any other distro as that is the only dual-boot machine I own. Bazzite does mention they do not recommend traditional dual boot with the boot loader and recommend the bios method so maybe they have something changed to avoid that?
Phoenixz
in reply to CeeBee_Eh • • •Oh you sweet sweet summer boy....
We're talking Microsoft here, they'll make sure they're aware and they'll make sure to f you over because Microsoft
CeeBee_Eh
in reply to Phoenixz • • •While I generally agree with that, that's not what seems to be happening here. What seems to be happening is that anyone who boots Windows via grub is getting grub itself overwritten.
When you install Linux, boot loaders like grub generally are smart and try to be helpful by scanning all available OSes and provide a boot menu entry for those. This is generally to help new users who install a dual-boot system and help them not think that "Linux erased Windows" when they see the new grub boot loader.
When you boot Windows from grub, Windows treats the drive with grub (where it booted from) as the boot drive. But if you tell your BIOS to boot the Windows drive, then grub won't be invoked and Windows will boot seeing it's own drive as the boot drive.
This is mostly an assumption as this hasn't happened to me and details are still a bit scarce.
hackerwacker
in reply to CeeBee_Eh • • •I did that and a Windows update nuked Linux from the BIOS boot loader a few weeks ago.
The only safe option is to have completely separate machines. Thankfully with the rise of ridiculously powerful minipcs that's easier than ever.
Cyberpunk Librarian
in reply to merthyr1831 • • •NutWrench
in reply to Cyberpunk Librarian • • •小莱卡
in reply to NutWrench • • •Benny
in reply to NutWrench • • •ad_on_is
in reply to Cyberpunk Librarian • • •Zacryon
in reply to obbeel • • •azvasKvklenko
in reply to obbeel • • •No surprises there, just the usual shit
potentiallynotfelix
in reply to azvasKvklenko • • •uebquauntbez
in reply to obbeel • • •PerogiBoi
in reply to obbeel • • •faede
in reply to PerogiBoi • • •QuestionMark
in reply to PerogiBoi • • •PerogiBoi
in reply to QuestionMark • • •CeeBee_Eh
in reply to PerogiBoi • • •curry
in reply to CeeBee_Eh • • •CeeBee_Eh
in reply to curry • • •curry
in reply to CeeBee_Eh • • •PerogiBoi
in reply to CeeBee_Eh • • •Yerbouti
in reply to obbeel • • •Caveman
in reply to obbeel • • •non_burglar
Unknown parent • • •EFI can also live in firmware memory.
You can pull the linux drive, boot from the windows drive, and if one of the firmware updates was for efi, windows will trash the entry for your Linux disk.
This has happened for me many times, I had to use a grub rescue disk to rebuild the efi table.
StaySquared
in reply to obbeel • • •Semi-O/T: I feel Microsoft is such a violation of personal security that I would not dual boot anything with Windows. I forget exactly what happened (the details), but I remember when I had upgraded my desktop from Win7 Pro to W10 Pro from the free upgrade feature, it broke the MBR/GRUB.. from that day on, I've kept my OS completed separated by device.
If it's just sandboxing / VMs, that's whatever, not sweating that at all.
Phoenixz
in reply to obbeel • • •Remove your Microsoft installation, done.
But what? This is Microsoft, they fucked it up so many times that it's either incompetence or sabotage, and knowing Microsoft, it's probably both.
This is the same company that invented millions to sabotage Linux through the legal system (hello sco), and the same company that in purpose left gaping security holes open as to not lose any money, causing China to hack the US government through said holes.
Then we decide that just that money isn't enough so we'll spy on you at every step of the way, we will force feed you ads, and we'll use you to train our shitty AI
Frack Microsoft, frack any and all of their software.
umbrella
in reply to obbeel • • •mihor
in reply to obbeel • • •priapus
in reply to obbeel • • •Fijxu
in reply to priapus • • •potentiallynotfelix
in reply to priapus • • •Treczoks
in reply to priapus • • •datelmd5sum
in reply to obbeel • • •fossilesque
in reply to obbeel • • •RIPandTERROR
in reply to fossilesque • • •Random Dent
in reply to fossilesque • • •I recently discovered that Rufus has an option to set up a Windows ISO as "Windows on the go" so I dug out an old 500Gb SSD that had a USB adapter with it and installed Windows on that. So now instead of dual booting I can just hit F12 and boot from USB on the rare occasions when I need to run something in Windows.
It's also quite satisfying to be able to physically remove Windows and shove it into a drawer when it goes full Windows too lol.
Rufus - Create bootable USB drives the easy way
rufus.iefossilesque
in reply to Random Dent • • •njordomir
in reply to obbeel • • •obbeel
in reply to njordomir • • •njordomir
in reply to obbeel • • •I should have been more clear,
Assuming dev/sda is Linux and dev/sdb is Windows, I have grub on sda and Windows bootloader on sdb. I use a hotkey at boot to tell the bios which drive to boot from.
Theoretically windows thinks it's the only OS unless it's scoping out that second hard disk.
Avatar_of_Self
in reply to njordomir • • •Avatar_of_Self
in reply to obbeel • • •Windows update breaks Linux dual boot - but there is a fix for some users
Jack Wallen (ZDNET)timmytbt
in reply to obbeel • • •So, excusing my ignorance as a fairly recent Linux convert, what does this mean for my dual boot system?
I haven’t booted windows for weeks and am pretty sure there have been no updates since it was freshly reinstalled (maybe 6 months ago) as a dual boot with Debian.
Is this only a problem if I allow Windows to update?
Are Microsoft likely to fix the issue in a subsequent release?
Kuma
in reply to timmytbt • • •Yes, you don't have to worry as long as you don't boot up windows and let it install the update.
This is not the first time they break dual boots by touching the partitions, but this is the first time they deliberately break it (that I know of).
I always had windows on its own drive because of that. If you don't use windows a lot then I would suggest to do the same. You have to change to windows through bios but it isn't that much more work.
Kuma
in reply to Kuma • • •timmytbt
in reply to Kuma • • •Thanks for the reply, and good to know!
I think I’ll blow away the windows install on this machine completely.
I still have another pc for some audio tools that don’t run under Linux, but this machine is my daily driver now and I couldn’t be happier.
ochi_chernye
in reply to timmytbt • • •non_burglar
Unknown parent • • •shekau
in reply to obbeel • • •