@CppGuy In Fleas Flies and Friars, the Middle English / Latin poem famous for having the first recorded use of ‘fuck’, the cuss words are censored by using the next letter in the alphabet (so ‘gxdd’ instead of ‘fucc’). It's also one of the earliest uses of ‘swive’, which is similarly censored. (And so is the onomatopoeia ‘snick snack’ for some reason.)
"Snick snack" is new to me, and is very similar to the sound made by the vorpal blade in Jabberwocky. Unfortunate accident, surely, on Lewis Carroll's part?
@CppGuy According to Wikipedia, it was published in an academic book in 1841, which gives Carroll plenty of time to read it before he publishes Through the Looking Glass in 1871. Although since ‘tokl tobl’ also works as onomatopoeia, it might have taken a while for people to think of applying the substitution cipher to it; I don't know what the 1841 book says about it.
It's conceivable, since the phrase was in use in the 15th century, that it was continually in use through the 19th century, but if so then it wasn't in print. (The OED dates ‘snick-snack’ to 1925 and ‘snicker-snack’ to 1871, with Carroll. Note that the OED doesn't seem to consider Flees Flies and Friars, which is more than half in Latin, to be an English source; it dates ‘fuck’ only to 1513.)
@catmisgivings Thanks! I'd reposted this on Bluesky but didn't know she was here too. Between "English folklore" and the cat's "vacuum" it's an amazing season for random swears @Catvalente
C++ Wage Slave
in reply to Catherynne M. Valente • • •There are plenty of rude Old English words if one cares to look for them:
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/swive
Hardly anyone knows them, so you can swear to your heart's content without being found out. Probably. 😄
swive - Wiktionary, the free dictionary
WiktionaryTobyBartels
in reply to C++ Wage Slave • • •In Fleas Flies and Friars, the Middle English / Latin poem famous for having the first recorded use of ‘fuck’, the cuss words are censored by using the next letter in the alphabet (so ‘gxdd’ instead of ‘fucc’). It's also one of the earliest uses of ‘swive’, which is similarly censored. (And so is the onomatopoeia ‘snick snack’ for some reason.)
C++ Wage Slave
in reply to TobyBartels • • •@TobyBartels
Interesting! Thanks.
"Snick snack" is new to me, and is very similar to the sound made by the vorpal blade in Jabberwocky. Unfortunate accident, surely, on Lewis Carroll's part?
@Catvalente
TobyBartels
in reply to C++ Wage Slave • • •@CppGuy
According to Wikipedia, it was published in an academic book in 1841, which gives Carroll plenty of time to read it before he publishes Through the Looking Glass in 1871. Although since ‘tokl tobl’ also works as onomatopoeia, it might have taken a while for people to think of applying the substitution cipher to it; I don't know what the 1841 book says about it.
It's conceivable, since the phrase was in use in the 15th century, that it was continually in use through the 19th century, but if so then it wasn't in print. (The OED dates ‘snick-snack’ to 1925 and ‘snicker-snack’ to 1871, with Carroll. Note that the OED doesn't seem to consider Flees Flies and Friars, which is more than half in Latin, to be an English source; it dates ‘fuck’ only to 1513.)
Jeroen Baert
in reply to Catherynne M. Valente • • •mcc
in reply to Catherynne M. Valente • • •Cat
in reply to Catherynne M. Valente • • •cc: @stronglang
wandering.shop/@Catvalente/115…
Bonus: I HAD to boost but I captured the status at 69 boosts
Catherynne M. Valente
2025-11-26 19:12:21
Strong Language
in reply to Cat • • •