Ukrainian men dragged away outside Kyiv nightclubs and restaurants by army recruiters
Ukrainian men dragged away outside Kyiv nightclubs and restaurants by army recruiters
Chaos descended outside some nightlife spots as military recruitment officers checked documentsAlex Croft (The Independent)
☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
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in reply to Display name • • •Display name
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
in reply to Display name • • •Display name
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •Most laws, to specify for you so you don't need to take that turn.
☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
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Display name
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •To clear things up for you, you stated that laws had nothing to do with morality, and that is false as previously seen.
But I do agree that laws might not be a source of morality, even if some laws aim to alter how people view certain matters.
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in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
in reply to Display name • • •scoredseqrica
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •MarxMadness
in reply to sun_is_ra • • •Sometimes the law is wrong, and following it is wrong
Dying for nothing in a lost war is one of those times
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wellfill
in reply to sun_is_ra • • •Kuori [she/her]
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BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
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coolusername
in reply to anachronist • • •Display name
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •That's one take. Recently a bigger focus has been on how these men are avoiding their duties as citizens to protect their country, way of living and freedom.
But draft dodging is fine from a pacifist point of view.
Better that than being lured into a war as the Russians do.
Edited to way of living to help the literally ones
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scoredseqrica
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in reply to scoredseqrica • • •BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
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Evilsandwichman [none/use name]
in reply to Display name • • •How would they be protecting their lives by going into a war zone? And if their freedom was important they wouldn't be getting pressed into service; as for protecting their country, no one cared that they were shirking that responsibility when they allowed Azov militia members to kill ethnic Russians (who identified as Ukrainian until they were being ethnically cleansed) without defending that part of their country. Why weren't Ukrainians defending that part of the country?
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Rod_Blagojevic [none/use name]
in reply to Display name • • •ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]
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in reply to ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them] • • •Evilsandwichman [none/use name]
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ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]
in reply to Evilsandwichman [none/use name] • • •Evilsandwichman [none/use name]
in reply to ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them] • • •like this
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ComradeSharkfucker
in reply to Evilsandwichman [none/use name] • • •ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]
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interdimensionalmeme
in reply to ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them] • • •coolusername
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Dessalines
in reply to ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them] • • •LPS
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • •For any western liberal that is cheering on this bloodshed on behalf of Western capitalist powers, I invite you to jump on a plane and pick up a rifle.
This conflict has only two outcomes. A peace deal through negotiations as with any war in history, or WWIII.
Sadly, the American stance "we will fight Russia down to the last Ukrainian" is the reality. Once the smoke clears, if there was a victory, it will be the property of Western interests like Black Rock.
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coolusername
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •d-RLY?
in reply to LPS • • •I think Israel is the only entity that is doing basically everything possible to kick-start WWIII. As the Ukraine/Russia stuff is mostly being contained to Ukraine, Donetsk, Luhansk, Crimea, and parts of Russia. But Israel is openly starting new fronts in Palestine and Lebanon. Along with attacking Iran, Syria, and Yemen. And they are most certainly the most likely entity to be the next government to use nukes in war. The doctrine of kill everyone to not allow capture is far more scary than what has been going on in Ukraine.
Not to say that the forced conscription and arrests of draft aged (or even physically able) men isn't fucked (it very much is). But even the neo-Nazis in command of Ukrainian forces aren't taking that level of official doctrine of death to their own side. Their doctrine is more "you fight or die" (but not "we will also kill you if you are caught by the enemy) which isn't exactly "shocking" if a nation is on an actual defense from inside their borders. Israel is invading other nations and acting at more of an ISIS level of fucked up while yelling about ho
... show moreI think Israel is the only entity that is doing basically everything possible to kick-start WWIII. As the Ukraine/Russia stuff is mostly being contained to Ukraine, Donetsk, Luhansk, Crimea, and parts of Russia. But Israel is openly starting new fronts in Palestine and Lebanon. Along with attacking Iran, Syria, and Yemen. And they are most certainly the most likely entity to be the next government to use nukes in war. The doctrine of kill everyone to not allow capture is far more scary than what has been going on in Ukraine.
Not to say that the forced conscription and arrests of draft aged (or even physically able) men isn't fucked (it very much is). But even the neo-Nazis in command of Ukrainian forces aren't taking that level of official doctrine of death to their own side. Their doctrine is more "you fight or die" (but not "we will also kill you if you are caught by the enemy) which isn't exactly "shocking" if a nation is on an actual defense from inside their borders. Israel is invading other nations and acting at more of an ISIS level of fucked up while yelling about how they are "just defending ourselves."
coolusername
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تحريرها كلها ممكن
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stink
in reply to تحريرها كلها ممكن • • •Yes but Blinken said Russia is committing genocide so la la la la la I cant hear you!!!
Slava ukrainazis!!!!
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WanderingVentra
in reply to Display name • • •PolandIsAStateOfMind
in reply to WanderingVentra • • •It was not unlike until 2022 (though still much worse for Palestine), but unlike Palestine, Donbas did got help.
I can 1000% guarantee you that if Iran or Iraq or Egypt invaded Israel in defense of Palestine all the antiwar libs who currently mildly criticize genocide would be frothing their mouths terminal rabies islamophobic and zionist now.
ComradeSharkfucker
in reply to تحريرها كلها ممكن • • •coolusername
in reply to تحريرها كلها ممكن • • •Bobr
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •Just today Zaluzhnyi (ex AFU Commander-in-Chief) said that if needed, they will start mobilizing (so kidnapping from the streets, etc.) women too.
And then it finally going to be a proper, total genocide of Ukrainians...
I am sure there are no red lines for Zelensky's regime now... He can start murdering kids, and it will be met with western applause...
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Florn [they/them]
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Bobr
in reply to Florn [they/them] • • •It's super hard to get away now..
Zelensky's regime may have troubles with keeping the eastern border safe, but the western one is defended like no other (that is, from people trying to escape of course).
And the bribes to get out legally are more than 10k$... For lots of us (especially for people living in villages) this is an amount of money we've never seen in a lifetime.
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eldavi
in reply to Bobr • • •we had to use coyotes when we left mexico for the united states and that experience has left my entire family in desperate need of psychological counseling for the last 5 decades.
my heart breaks for the people who have to do something similar.
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ComradeSharkfucker
in reply to eldavi • • •eldavi
in reply to ComradeSharkfucker • • •it's the american and mexican nickname for people who smuggle people across the border for money.
coyotes usually learn their craft by being part of the drug cartels; so the people who pay the money are also commonly kidnapped by the coyotes for ransom money from the family and they're killed if the family doesn't pay.
children are especially lucrative for them.
ComradeSharkfucker
in reply to eldavi • • •eldavi
in reply to ComradeSharkfucker • • •i've been getting the help i need thanks to believing in medical science and psychotherapy.
my older family members and my science denying family members are the ones who need the sympathy because they will never seek the help they need and/or continue to put their faith into their orange jesus or a bottle to make themselves feel better.
spacecadet
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •don't like this
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in reply to spacecadet • • •like this
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Palacegalleryratio [he/him]
in reply to spacecadet • • •Ok, but like realistically what do you think the outcome in this war is? Do you think there is a realistic path forwards in which Ukraine beats Russia?
If your answer to that is yes, then I don’t know what to say to you. Ukraine is getting overrun by material and people from its much larger opponent. The only way to tip that balance is the rest of nato going hot(er) and joining the war and then we have ww3 - which I hardly need to point out the devastating consequences of for the whole world.
If your answer to that is no, then what does conscription of men and the continuation of the war achieve? Other than greater suffering, death and destruction. How can that be good? I don’t want Russia to win per-say, this is a brutal war between two reactionary powers. But I do wish for all the civilians in the affected area that the war stops, so their children will stop being killed in the collateral and they can stop sacrificing their sons and fathers to the meat grinder. It is clear that Ukraine isn’t winning so the path to peace is Russia wins.
Russia
... show moreOk, but like realistically what do you think the outcome in this war is? Do you think there is a realistic path forwards in which Ukraine beats Russia?
If your answer to that is yes, then I don’t know what to say to you. Ukraine is getting overrun by material and people from its much larger opponent. The only way to tip that balance is the rest of nato going hot(er) and joining the war and then we have ww3 - which I hardly need to point out the devastating consequences of for the whole world.
If your answer to that is no, then what does conscription of men and the continuation of the war achieve? Other than greater suffering, death and destruction. How can that be good? I don’t want Russia to win per-say, this is a brutal war between two reactionary powers. But I do wish for all the civilians in the affected area that the war stops, so their children will stop being killed in the collateral and they can stop sacrificing their sons and fathers to the meat grinder. It is clear that Ukraine isn’t winning so the path to peace is Russia wins.
Russia winning is the most good realistic outcome.
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Flyberius [comrade/them]
in reply to Palacegalleryratio [he/him] • • •Palacegalleryratio [he/him]
in reply to Flyberius [comrade/them] • • •Petter1
in reply to Palacegalleryratio [he/him] • • •You say, every small country should all just let their bigger neighbours get control over them without a fight, because “tHiS wAr Is aLrEAdy LoST”?
Russia makes military fail after military fail and achieve no land except some useless corn fields. But “tHeY aRe the 2nd stRoNgEst mIliTary”. While they take tanks out of museums because all their toys get humiliated by drone swarms.
🤷🏻 but I guess you with your opinion (like me with mine) do not change the sad stuff that is happening
Palacegalleryratio [he/him]
in reply to Petter1 • • •I literally did not say that. In fact nothing of what you’ve put in quotation marks is a quotation of mine. Truly you have a beautiful mind. I very much doubt you really care about other nations territorial integrity, in the way your argument seems to suggest, as I doubt you’re making the same arguments when America or other nato aligned nations invade other countries.
Regarding Russian military successes and failures, I think there have been heavy losses on both sides, and major humiliations on both sides. However given that Russia controls nearly a fifth of Ukraines territory and that number is going up not down, I’d suggest that they’re doing ok in terms of land gains. Which isn’t even the main objective of Russia in this moment who have pivoted to a w
... show moreI literally did not say that. In fact nothing of what you’ve put in quotation marks is a quotation of mine. Truly you have a beautiful mind. I very much doubt you really care about other nations territorial integrity, in the way your argument seems to suggest, as I doubt you’re making the same arguments when America or other nato aligned nations invade other countries.
Regarding Russian military successes and failures, I think there have been heavy losses on both sides, and major humiliations on both sides. However given that Russia controls nearly a fifth of Ukraines territory and that number is going up not down, I’d suggest that they’re doing ok in terms of land gains. Which isn’t even the main objective of Russia in this moment who have pivoted to a war of attrition, which they will certainly win.
So back to my previous point, what do you think is going to happen? And given the inevitable conclusion, why do you want to promote the war in which you will be sending thousands of Ukrainians (and indeed Russians) to a futile death?
Petter1
in reply to Palacegalleryratio [he/him] • • •No invasion is never good, not from IS not from russia not from china not from Israel not from germany and not from korea (both sides) as examples
I don’t really pick general sides, but with an invasion, for me, it is clear that the invading party is generally the bad guy
There was nearly no loss nor gains of Landmasses within Ukrine for over a year now, but since Ukrine got their fighter jets, they took some Russia land, apparently.
To try predict the future, I think Ukraine’s Plan to get more and more of Russia land in order to trade all lands back as they were before war, may work, given the NATO (especially US) keeps on giving the weapons and ammunition to Ukraine.
Palacegalleryratio [he/him]
in reply to Petter1 • • •Ahh yes, history always begins on the day of the invasion. The western allies were wrong to invade France on D-Day as being the invader is always bad. There is never any preceding events that may give light to the motives of the attacker. For good or for bad. Libs ‘consider world events not just on in-the-moment vibes’ challenge: impossible.
There being no losses or gains in Ukraine is because Russia has changed its tactics, they’re now grinding it out until Ukraine collapses totally due to lack of material and manpower, not going for territorial gains. Despite this they’re still making strategically important gains in Ukraine. You know Russia has reclaimed a quarter of that land in Kursk back already don’t you? Also that it is a tiny region of land they claimed in the first place, 300 down from 400 square miles. Your vision of the future where Ukraine takes huge swaths of Russia and trades for occupied Ukrainian lands is never going to happen.
BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
in reply to spacecadet • • •DoiDoi [comrade/them, he/him]
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PolandIsAStateOfMind
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •Huh that's gotta be the highest upvoted article critical of Ukraine regime i seen here.
Either libs are already in the inevitable process of transforming from "kill ruZZian orcs" to "we never supported that war" or we are just out of peak hours for lib brigades.
TheMightyCanuck
in reply to PolandIsAStateOfMind • • •It really isn't that far of a reach to support ukraines fight for sovereignty but also detest forced conscription.
It's not one or the other.
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skulblaka
in reply to TheMightyCanuck • • •like this
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PolandIsAStateOfMind
in reply to TheMightyCanuck • • •Ukraine lost its sovereignity in 2014. Nuland was even handpicking their govt, you don't get less sovereign.
You can always go volunteer
TheOubliette
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •Remember when the libs here were saying only Russia does this and acting like it was beyond the pale?
I do because it was yesterday.
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LPS
in reply to TheOubliette • •like this
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in reply to LPS • • •like this
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Zyratoxx
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •Hanns Eisler in "Der Heimliche Aufmarsch"
(works for both sides ngl)
DaTingGoBrrr
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •Y'all are fucking clowns for defending the Russian invasion of Ukraine and saying that Ukrainians should just give up.
How about all the Russians getting forced in to a war just to die? Where is the criticism of Putin and his regime and the atrocities that he commits? Oh, that's right, it doesn't fit the narrative that mother Russia is superior to everyone else and deserve to take Ukrainian land.
It's pretty obvious that you're just fascist. It's going full circle in here.
Fucking clowns 🤣 Clowns living in a clown world is what you are 🤡🤡🤡
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in reply to DaTingGoBrrr • • •like this
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in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •don't like this
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☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆
in reply to DaTingGoBrrr • • •Aussiemandeus
in reply to DaTingGoBrrr • • •Bobr
in reply to Aussiemandeus • • •Maxxie
in reply to DaTingGoBrrr • • •Some people dug too deep into the reality tunnel, any common sense has been left far behind.
Obvious reality check: Ukraine has some nazies. Also
a) they're not their top problem. That being, you know, invasion and occupation by an authoritarian dictatorship.
b) point me at the country that hasn't. What, you want China to invade Germany because AfD has 30% in some provinces? Let people sort their shit before you call for a foreign boot ffs.
(Not even touching the fact that the only reason Russia isnt seig heil'ing right this second, is that little Pu is afraid of any popular movements, including fascism. But it'll get there, give it a couple years and/or heart strokes)
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coolusername
in reply to Maxxie • • •Maxxie
in reply to coolusername • • •The fascist regeme you're imagining simply doesnt exist. There wasnt some "Donetsk ethnic cleansing", this were separatists (armed with Russian weapons and backed up with russian volunteers) trying to kick off federal troops and secede. Which, you know, isn't great. You could possibly go "both sides are bad" the 2014-2021 conflict and have some good points.
In what universe does the 2022 russian invasion translate to anything else as obvious f-ing conquest and how much of a bootlicker do you have to be to support it??
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coolusername
in reply to DaTingGoBrrr • • •nice hasbara
Are you seriously getting your viewpoints about what Russia wants...FROM THE CIA? that's fucking insane. Here's what you should do. Find any translation of any spokesperson of Russia. Two famous ones are Lavrov and Maria something. Both of them are very intelligent and speak clearly.
edit: Also Russia doesn't target civilians. There's a thing that's commonly used by the US and Israel called atrocity propaganda. Look it up.
Russia is taking casualties but it's not that much. It's approximately 1 death to 20-30 Ukranian deaths ATM.
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Bobr
in reply to DaTingGoBrrr • • •I'll try to argue in good faith and ask you - what evidence (other than this post, apparently it doesn't convince you) would be needed for you to admit that we don't want to fight, and it's Zelensky's regime (with West's support) that forces us to (and effectively genocides us)?
It's also bad. Russia is not turned into a mass prison which people can't leave and where they are kidnapped on the streets though, Ukraine is.
A man in Russia can leave at any moment.
A man in Ukraine is automatically a prisoner, he can only escape.
Here it is: I condemn Putin for the atrocities he commits. I regularly hear from my friends and family, who are still in Ukraine, about Russian rockets/drones flying over them.
You see, I've tried to argue in good faith with you, despite you supporting Zelensky's fascist regime that tries to kill me and people I know. Now, can you do the same? :)
DaTingGoBrrr
in reply to Bobr • • •It's horrible that Ukrainians and Russians are getting forced in to a war that neither wanted to participate in. I hate wars and I would have preferred to see everyone live in peace. But reality is not like that.
Putin is trying to take your homeland and you're doing nothing to prevent it. You're not even in your own country... I find it pretty rich that condemn Putin and his actions while also being okey with it happening as long as no one has to fight for Ukraine.
Who should fight for their freedom if not the people that live there? I would defend my homeland til I die if it meant my country would remain a democracy and be free dictators and fascists.
Bobr
in reply to DaTingGoBrrr • • •You didn't answer my question "what evidence (...) would be needed for you to admit that we don't want to fight, and it's Zelensky's regime (...) that forces us to (...)" :(
What do you mean "take"?
What prevents me from living on the land Putin has taken?
Or let's be more exact - what prevents people in Crimea, Melitopol and other cities/regions taken by Putin to continue living there?
Or maybe you want to say that the life there is worse? Then please define in what way. Is it being able to freely move? Is it not being a subject to mass kidnappings? Is it being able to speak your mother tongue without being discriminated for it (or worse...)? Is it being able to form political parties? Is it being able to vote for your president (even if you consider the elections rigged)?
... show moreI cannot return there, until Zelensky's regime is done. If I go there - I won't be able to come back. I'll be
You didn't answer my question "what evidence (...) would be needed for you to admit that we don't want to fight, and it's Zelensky's regime (...) that forces us to (...)" :(
What do you mean "take"?
What prevents me from living on the land Putin has taken?
Or let's be more exact - what prevents people in Crimea, Melitopol and other cities/regions taken by Putin to continue living there?
Or maybe you want to say that the life there is worse? Then please define in what way. Is it being able to freely move? Is it not being a subject to mass kidnappings? Is it being able to speak your mother tongue without being discriminated for it (or worse...)? Is it being able to form political parties? Is it being able to vote for your president (even if you consider the elections rigged)?
I cannot return there, until Zelensky's regime is done. If I go there - I won't be able to come back. I'll be imprisoned like the rest of the country. I'll be sooner or later kidnapped and sent to die.
Fighting for freedom is fighting against Zelensky's regime, he is the one taking the freedom away. And it's extremely hard to fight him, as long as he has western support.
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interdimensionalmeme
in reply to DaTingGoBrrr • • •Ascend910
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •It is hilarious to watch.
interdimensionalmeme
in reply to ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆ • • •