For the first time ever, I’m torn about whether I should stay on mastodon.social.
Being here has given me a voice I’ve never had, to talk about a topic that I feel strongly about, and I feel I’ve made the world a slightly different place.
But I also wonder if mastodon.social is becoming even more hostile to the rest of the Fediverse.
Should I stay and fight? Or is this a lost cause?
Senna ☀️
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •but even if you change instances, you'll retain most of your followers and everyone can still discover you on fedi.
I mean, that's the point, right?
Chris Trottier
in reply to Senna ☀️ • • •Cosmo
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •ch0ccyra1n is leaving fedi soon
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Chris Trottier
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •I talk to lots of devs, server admins, and users—and the trend has been that Mastodon’s BDFL approach is actively harming the rest of the Fediverse.
Community safety features haven’t been implemented in years.
Aspects of ActivityPub aren’t utilized or they’re kneecapped even though they’ve been present since the very beginning.
Things that are possible elsewhere on the Fediverse aren’t possible on Mastodon.
kb
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •I briefly tried a calckey instance recently and it seems *amazing*.
Chris Trottier
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Here’s what especially bothers me.
Nomadic identity already exists on the Fediverse. @evan, who co-authored ActivityPub, has said it is possible.
@mike has made a protocol that does nomadic identity, and he’s building a Fediverse Identity Manager too.
#Calckey allows you to not just migrate but import your posts.
I wouldn’t mind mastodon.social being the default server if Mastodon has nomadic identity.
But it doesn’t.
On this point, even #Bluesky has an advantage here.
Jake
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •@evan @mike
Chris Trottier
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •I’ve said for awhile that, when it comes to the Fediverse, people have myopia regarding the possibilities of ActivityPub and are focusing too much on Mastodon.
Partly, that’s because once you’re in Mastodon, it’s very hard to know about the Fediverse outside of it.
As a result, people who use Mastodon think the Fediverse is Mastodon.
Chris Brown
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Chris Trottier
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •We’re at the point where Mastodon clients are actively hostile about server apps that aren’t Mastodon—despite using Mastodon’s API.
And it’s questionable to me whether or not Mastodon’s API should be the “standard”.
The Fediverse shouldn’t be a competition. Yet, I feel the Fediverse is becoming more hostile to people who don’t use Mastodon.
Chris Trottier
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •One thing that gets me is all the folks who say, “We need to spread Mastodon—and then after they join Mastodon, they’ll be sold on the Fediverse.”
Frankly, I’m skeptical about that approach.
I’ve looked through the stats. Few people migrate to other parts of the Fediverse after joining Mastodon.
Mastodon is 80% of the Fediverse.
It’s closest competitor is Misskey—and Misskey is 3% of the Fediverse.
This despite that Misskey is in many ways superior to Mastodon in terms of usability.
Chris Trottier
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •For awhile, I was okay with Mastodon being 80% of the Fediverse.
I was also okay with a campaign like @spreadmastodon.
But now I’m wondering: will servers that *aren’t* mastodon.social benefit from this campaign?
Have we gone from Mastodon dominating the Fediverse to now mastodon.social dominating it too?
This is not an irrational fear.
Chris Trottier
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Despite my worries, I have some hope about the current state of the Fediverse.
1. @mammoth was right to default to its own app-specific server—I was wrong. Other app developers should follow suit
2. The *key apps are growing very fast, especially in Japan—but also in the West too
3. There’s Bluesky—so if ActivityPub fails to decentralize, AT protocol is an option
Mastodon is not *yet* the only option.
Luis Carlos
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Chris Trottier
in reply to Luis Carlos • • •Luis Carlos
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Chris Trottier
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •What’s become apparent to me it’s not enough to advocate for Mastodon and call it a day.
Decentralization is going to be a fight within the Fediverse too.
Not everyone on Mastodon wants decentralization. Instead, they want Mastodon to “win”—and “winning” means crushing everything else.
RyunosukeKusanagi
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Jesse Boyd
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •maegul
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •I was having similar thoughts just recently ... in thinking about developer/advocate activity since "the migration".
The thought was: could it have been a fundamental mistake to accept mastodon as the de facto platform rather than embracing or building an ecosystem *for* platforms.
The key for me, was that as mastodon was/is so dominant, to not act at the platform level, and build tools/software for a diverse platform ecosystem, was to accept/cause the centralisation you speak of.
Enrique Barcelli
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •this might be an overstatement.
There is no way an #opensource project could be everything to everyone. #Mastodon will not be the exception.
There will be some people who would use it and some others who would use something else, including many forks which may start from Mastodon itself.
I believe all the innovation going on the #Fediverse applications is where the actual success is. 😊
maegul
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •@mammoth
Quite a turn around there (for at least) on mammoth ... and I think you're absolutely right.
At a broader level, I feel like there is an evolution here, worth tracking, of what "the instance" means to people and how it gets projected onto fedi-advocacy and inducting newcomers.
My initial concern is to worry about how the construct, both from a UX and ecosystem level perspective, is intrinsically problematic.
david
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •@mammoth
What do you think of Secure Scuttlebutt?
The work
@staltz has teased in his most recent manyverse supporters update, here manyver.se/blog/2023-04-05 sound really intriguing.
April 2023 update
www.manyver.seChris Trottier
in reply to david • • •Nona Rose
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Luis Carlos
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •maegul
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •@spreadmastodon
Part of the pain for the fediverse at the moment, as I see it, is I think a honeymoon period is coming to a close and a set of critiques are settling into some consensus over which many are happily moving off of the fediverse. (Eg, erinkissane.com/blue-skies-ove…).
Except, all of these opinions are addressed at #mastodon. The fediverse has probably been judged and rejected solely by its mastodon "cover".
Erin Kissane
erinkissane.comRaineer 🦆
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Even as a techie, I am lethargic to the mastodon competitors, mainly because there’s not enough differentiation.
Elisheva Meira ✡︎ 🌈
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •M had indepth articles, the rest a paragraph
Trenton Matthews
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Tip
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Humbird0 Fandom
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •@evan @mike
I only just today learned about "nomadic identity." It sounds fascinating.
I hear Hubzilla is pretty good.
Liera
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Really useful that Calckey also supports migrating posts, should also definitely be possible but isn't available here on Mastodon. Definitely would have helped lots when I was moving away from mastodon.lol with it's admin drama.
Hope it does also get added to mastodon at some point since that's basically the inly thing holding me here instead of sometimes explore hopping. Don't want to lose my post history if I'm able too avoid it
Neat breakdown btw!
mempko
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •I believe the Fediverse is doomed if it doesn't have broad funding and support. Moving to one project or another doesn't solve the underlying problem imo.
But yeah, if Mastodon doesn't work for you, either improve it if you are capable or go to another project and support it. The BDFL style development is doomed imo.
Kevin Karhan
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •@hcv41
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Considero que si no tienes las condiciones para continuar la lucha en ese espacio, debes optar por migrar y continuar posteando tus reflexiones, valiosas y pertinentes, para todo aquel que desee analizar críticamente la tecnología y servicios que se ofrecen a miles de personas en el mundo.
Gracias por escribir cosas interesantes y te sigo con atención desde Sur América.
BakerPoliticalWatcher004
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Chris Trottier
Unknown parent • • •Kigelia
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Humbird0 Fandom
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Maybe go both ways and have two accounts on different servers?
Your mastodon.social account could reblog what you post on your outer account so people there don't miss anything. That way if mastodon.social doesn't work out or gets blocked, your posts are still available because they originated elsewhere.
I think something called a "relay" can automate the reblogging.
reddit.com/r/Mastodon/comments…
Reddit - Dive into anything
www.reddit.comChris Trottier
Unknown parent • • •eshep
in reply to Chris Trottier • •If you don't feel comfortable there, move somewhere you do. Then just put a line in your bio saying the account is now inactive/archived and link to where you can be refollowed.
I know you already know this but for the benefit of those who may not, here my view on moving. If you continue to address Fediverse News in your posts as you already do for many of them, you'll have pretty much the same voice from your new home. Start adding more #tags in the text of your posts to both widen and focus the audience for who they're intended. And maybe a bit overkill, but you could always tag this account of yours in future posts from your new one for a while to help lead folks to it.
Alex Walker
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •nonlinear
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •You mean the instance? I think it's best to always dig deeper, be less central.
Me and my friends are about to create an instance on praxis.nyc... my friend gas experience managing instances, so it's better.
fedi :fediverse:
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other as to whether you should leave dot social but if you do:
1. consider Fosstodon
2. consider your own single user instance like did Aral Balkan: ar.al/
3. consider treehouse.systems
4. consider creating a new multi-user instance specifically for fedi devs
5. consider a generalist instance like this one: masto.ai
I don't believe being on the biggest instance gives a big advantage as to reach.
Aral Balkan
Aral Balkan