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in reply to jankforlife

Yeah like frig China. Why aren't you killing them? Whats wrong with you? Clearly the most morally correct thing to do is exterminate them, what are you trying to hide?
in reply to rando895 [she/her]

The US liberates muslims (from the mortal coil) while China enslaves muslims (by making them part of the productive forces).
This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to jankforlife

“Our genocides are the good genocides” thinking persisting this long is baffling. Even more disturbing is these people are in power.
in reply to Broadfern

Is it though? People hear what they want to hear and believe what they want to believe. No one wants to believe that their privileges are predicated on suffering elsewhere.

Westerners in particularly have always been very "heads in the sand" when it comes to modern history but it's not surprising. Every nation struggles with the darker aspects of their history.

in reply to shawn1122

Correct: redsails.org/masses-elites-and…

Meanwhile I get nothing out of it but insults and the hope that a (very) few will begin their deprogramming journey, as I did soon after 9/11.

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to Broadfern

As long as you critically stan a state, it's okay to support genocide. /s
This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to jankforlife

We’re very butthurt about our failed color revolution, and we’re very concerned that we can’t even manage to make lemonade out of our lemon.

Westerners, every time:

in reply to jankforlife

Listen, I'm sure there's a very good reason why we have radically different policies towards Afghani Muslims and Uyghur Muslims, despite the fact they share a border and a litany of cultural practices.
in reply to jankforlife

So concerned that we bribed foreign terrorists to blow shit up in Xinjiang, forcing China to spend on education and job programs there.
in reply to humanspiral

These people, who don’t know shit about fuck, are absolutely sure that they already know everything that needs to be known, and that we don’t know shit about fuck.

And in twenty years they’ll say they knew it all along.

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in reply to FranklyIGiveADarn

in reply to jankforlife

(Mass dislikes time!)

Yes, the US does evil shit in the Middle East. Killing brown-skinned practitioners of the other Abrahamic religion overseas is an American tradition.

That still doesn't change the fact that China is persecuting Uyghurs in the Xinjiang province.

You can't shit-talk one authoritarian state and cheer on another.

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in reply to Deceptichum

To liberals, "simping so fucking hard" literally just means, "not believing literally every piece of propaganda that right wing western propaganda outlets pump out about them.

If they were old enough to be paying attention in 2002, they would be accusing anyone who didn't believe Iraq had WMDs of "simping so fucking hard" for Saddam.

in reply to BrainInABox

You don't believe there are WMD? What are you some authoritarian simping tankie?
in reply to Oppopity

🤣 Their jabs are so far off the mark, but every time they think they’ve hit the bullseye. If they could see our fremdschämen faces…
in reply to MelodiousFunk

in reply to BrainInABox

Blocking ml is a frequent topic of discussion, as it's widely considered to be propaganda unconnected to reality.
in reply to MDCCCLV

Widely considered unconnected to reality among people who believe that Ukraine is winning the war and there's an invisible genocide in China. I wonder what Occam's Razor says about this🤔
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in reply to MDCCCLV

Sure sure. I look forwards to many more future announcements that you're totally going to block it for real this time.
in reply to MDCCCLV

"Blocking ml is a frequent topic of discussion, as it’s widely considered to be globe head propaganda unconnected to the flat earth reality."
in reply to SpiceDealer

this post isn't cheering on china, it's shitting on the west's hypocrisy.

also you might want to look up who funded the wahabis who groomed the terrorists that the crackdown is a response to.

in reply to SpiceDealer

"Yes, the US does evil shit in the Middle East. Killing brown-skinned practitioners of the other Abrahamic religion overseas is an American tradition.

That still doesn't change the fact that Iraq is building weapons of mass destruction to attack the USA.

You can’t shit-talk one authoritarian state and cheer on another."

Seriously, how many times do you need to hear it before you western chauvanists realise it's not about "good or bad", it's about trustworthy or untrustworthy.

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in reply to BrainInABox

Ironically Abrahamic religion’s influence feeds into liberalism’s good vs. evil worldview.

Philosophy professor Hans-Georg Moeller:

in reply to SpiceDealer

If not reeducation, which method would you prefer China use to combat the foreign radical Wahhabism and terrorism spread by the CIA in Xinjiang for the purpose of regional destabilization and regime change?

We all know how the US chose to implement its own war on terror. Muslim majority countries in the Middle East support China's method.

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to TankieTanuki [he/him]

Vocational training and extraordinary rendition & torture at a black site are exactly the same. You fool. You absolute baffoon.
in reply to SpiceDealer

in reply to davel

The US tried to foment division in China by funding and organizing Salafi terrorist into Xinjiang, and once its efforts failed, it made lemonade out of its lemon by concocting and promoting a genocide narrative.


Much like how after China foiled their color revolution attempt in 1989, the CIA had to pivot to the "Tinyman Square Massacre" narrative.

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to TankieTanuki [he/him]

Very much like that, and they’re still getting mileage out of it with no effort, because Lemmitors get an endorphin rush every time they do the CIA’s work for free, the brave defenders of freedom & democracy that they are 🤦‍♂️
in reply to davel

Sources:
- china news propaganda site
- medium article from rando
- project syndicate link which is an op-ed site (not news)
- a wiki page from an incredibly biased group
- a youtube link...
- a site calling itself a news site, yet no actual credentials, but seems to be associated with China (Ajit Singh has written Chinese propaganda books)
- a substack link

This has to be the least compelling list of evidence one could provide, and yet you get upvotes because it looks like you've provided proof of something. All you've done is provide a lot of incredibly, seriously biased opinions with no actual facts at all.

in reply to tyler

in reply to davel

It's OK to distrust more than one Government, but how anyone can believe the Chineses Government in this matter is beyond me.

Did you not see the insanely violent crack down on Hong Kong Democracy Movement with you own eyes? Do you not remember Tianamen Square? Great Fire-Wall?

Theres liyteraly over 10GB or evidence of the persecution of Uyghurs by the Chinese Government:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang…

I can understand not wanting to believe/trust the US and EU Govs, but trusting the Chinese Government is (IMO) insane.

in reply to dangrousperson

"How anyone can believe the foreigners is beyond me" Let me guess you don't consider foreigners human

"All foreigners are 'insane' btw" calm down hitler

in reply to dangrousperson

in reply to dangrousperson

It’s OK to distrust more than one Government


Then you should try it, you hypocritical dipshit. You believe everything that comes out of the western propaganda machine without question, and then assume anyone who doesn't believe them are "believing the Chinese government"

If it were 2002 you would be accusing anyone who didn't believe Iraq of having WMDs of "believing Saddam!"

Do you not remember Tianamen Square


So do you do this in the opposite direction? When people doubt a claim made by China, do you start randomly bringing up unrelated events from forty years ago. What exactly was the chain of reasoning that made you thought this was relevant? Oh right, there wasn't one: you've just been trained like a literal dog to compulsively blurt out "Tinyman Square!" every time you hear the word "China".

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in reply to davel

That's the reddit mindset: being as rude, condescending, and smug as humanly possible is fine, but a naughty word is just uncivil.
in reply to dangrousperson

The Xinjiang Police Files are said to be leaked documents from the Xinjiang internment camps, forwarded to anthropologist Adrian Zenz from an anonymous source.

Adrian Nikolaus Zenz (born 1974) is a German anthropologist known for his studies of the Xinjiang internment camps and persecution of Uyghurs in China. He is a director and senior fellow in China studies at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, an anti-communist think tank established by the US government and based in Washington, DC.


Yeah... not suspicious at all.

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in reply to dangrousperson

It’s OK to distrust more than one Government, but how anyone can believe the the west in this matter is beyond me.

The west has repeatedly coup'd, invaded, destroyed, killed, bombed, sanctioned everyone that dares look at them wrong. But sure, daddy west is completely right when it comes to China.

Hong Kong Democracy Movement


Democracy is when you have west funded protests trying to do a color revolution. Sure.

Do you not remember Tianamen Square?


Oh, one of the biggest propaganda lies the west ever made about China? Have you actually watched the tank man video? How about the evidence of the contrary to the so called "massacre on Tiananmen square".

Great Fire-Wall?


Oh no, China doesn't allow the west to propagandize to it's citizens, while simultaneously propping it's own national platforms, the horror!!!11!!1!

Also, let's just ignore how the Arab League literally investigated the so called "Xinjiang genocide", and found nothing.

But sure, Adrian Zenz is right, lmao.

in reply to davel

Nobody said anything about MBFC. Good luck, like I said in another comment I’m not going to argue with anyone from .ml. I was pointing out the faults in your sources because they’re not proper sources no matter what region of the world you’re from.
in reply to tyler

"Waaaaaaaaah waaaaaaaaaah! I'm a little baby incapable of citing sources, I'm not gonna talk to you .ml demons."
in reply to tyler

You're arguing with a guy that doesn't want to change their mind. He literally sent me a video whose sources contradicted him and guess what happened when I pointed that to him? Never bothered to reply and he still uses that video as proof that he's right.
in reply to nyctre

As opposed to you people, who are totally open and eager to change your minds
in reply to BrainInABox

Seeing as how I actually watched his video and looked at their sources and other sources and only after that did I reply? Yes. And even to this day I still leave room for doubt. I still think the truth is actually somewhere in the middle. Not you, tho. You're convinced that what you believe is correct.
in reply to nyctre

Not you, tho. You’re convinced that what you believe is correct.


Yeah, as opposed to believing what I believe is incorrect...

Do you even understand the concept of other minds?

in reply to BrainInABox

I’m absolutely not going to provide sources or even argue with anyone from .ml on an .ml community because it’s pointless. You all do not care about proper sourcing and think it’s even a detractor because it’s “western”. I’m pointing out the problems with the sources for all the other people that are observing that comment and being swayed, because it’s a bunch of baloney.
in reply to tyler

You're conflating "proper sourcing" with being western, that's already an error, and second of all it's the west that has been most prominently pushing the genocide theory. Of course it's going to be contested by China. The validity of sources used by posts on YouTube and Medium aren't in question because of where they are hosted, they are often hosted on these kinds of platforms because opposing western narratives gets you blacklisted.
in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

If that were true then non western sources would have plenty of news articles, yet all ml users post are things directly from Russia or China or “alternative” “sources” like medium (which isn’t a source). There are plenty of regimes that do not align with anything America has to say, yet no news articles from them.
in reply to tyler

Not really true. We post sources from all over, especially groups like Al Mayadeen that post in English. If we post something in spanish from Granma, for example, people can't read that.
in reply to tyler

Disclaimer: not .ml.

Critisizing someone's sources and then refusing to provide any other ones "because it's pointless" seems a little hypocritical to me.

I’m pointing out the problems with the sources for all the other people that are observing that comment and being swayed, because it’s a bunch of baloney.


So we should trust your word over someone's who has at least put in the effort to provide sources?

Look, you don't need to prove anything, but if you're gonna argue or act like you're defending people from misinformation, then I'd expect to see more than just "don't listen to that guy". It's not exactly easy finding objective information about various issues in China and filtering out all the American propaganda. Personally, I'd very much appreciate any links that don't lead to obvious manipulation.

in reply to DupaCycki

How is it hypocritical? Either the sources are biased or not. The poster not providing proof for a counterargument is irrelevant. Or do you mean they should provide proof for the original sources being biased?
in reply to BrainInABox

But there is a spectrum. Or are you telling me that every source is as biased as any other?
in reply to Zabjam

Mate, the person literally said "Either the sources are biased or not"

are you telling me that


Fun fact: every single time someone writes this, whatever follows is guaranteed to be an outrageous strawman that in no way it's what the other person was saying.

in reply to DupaCycki

If someone claims to solve string theory and then provides shit sources there is never an obligation to provide sources that solve string theory. Pointing out sources are shit is part of science. I don’t need to provide a counter argument because that’s not the purpose of the conversation. I don’t need to provide proof of the alternative because the only thing I’m trying to accomplish is to stop this liar from spreading misinformation.

A lie can travel around the world before the truth takes a few steps. That’s exactly what that user is trying to do. Post as many lies as possible so that refuting them takes hours if not days if not months or years.

in reply to tyler

How can you know if the sources really are bad if it's not obvious aftet reading? Do you just trust a random person's words? In this case, you're essentially arbitrarily picking one version over another.

The problem with 'stopping lies' is it requires effort, which not everyone may wish to dedicate. I'm by no means denouncing the other person for trying to stop misinformation (assuming that's the case, since I still have no idea). However, it's all in vain if they don't bother to do anything to prove their point.

Anyone can post misinformation as sources, just as anyone can post that the sources are bad. Fundamentally there isn't a whole lot of difference between the two. If you really feel the need to defend people from being misinformed, some better source or other form of proof, or at the very least a deeper explanation would go a long way.

in reply to DupaCycki

I mean it is obvious after reading, the problem is that most people aren’t going to read the sources, they’re just reading the comment. They’re not going to click through and see that several are literally Chinese propaganda sites. They’re going to take the original comment at face value. If they then skip the sources and read my comment stating what the sources actually are then they’re less likely to be influenced.
in reply to tyler

Would you prefer something from America's own fox news or New York Times?
in reply to pineapple

No, neither. You’re making up a position and pretending like I believe that to make my argument look weak. I’m not the one posting shit sources.
in reply to tyler

You're not posting any sources at all. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
in reply to tyler

What is an example of an axtually credible spurce in your opinion?
in reply to tyler

I trust OIC and Muslim countries more than I trust any Western source. It is borderline farcical for Western governments and media to pretend to care about the welfare of Muslims in China while directly or indirectly enabling the genocide and ethnic cleansing in Palestine and invasions and war crimes in many other countries as well as the discriminatory policies in their own countries.
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in reply to SpiceDealer

That still doesn't change the fact that China is persecuting Uyghurs in the Xinjiang province.


But it's not a fact though? You can't imagine up some fictional scenario and then just claim it's a fact; words have meanings

in reply to Evilsandwichman [none/use name]

Not only is China indisputably persecuting Uyghurs, but we have far more proof for the genocide in the Xinjiang province than we do for the one in Gaza. Millions of scholars who are not at all associated with either Adrian Zenz or Uyghur separatists agree that the Uyghur genocide is the deadliest, most important, and best documented atrocity of all time. If you need links to the evidence, I can give you as many links as you want.
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But first, I need you to solve a CAPTCHA to make sure that you are not a robot.

To prove that you are not a robot, enter the number of trees visible in the image below:

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to jankforlife

The people that try to equate fake genocide with real genocide are like the school staff punishing bully and victim alike. They are enabling the abuses. Also it must be deeply insulting to the real victims in gaza.
This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to dangrousperson

Muslims get insulted if a women doesnt cover her entire body, so... Yeah. Its very hard to not offend muslims while still living in this century.
This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to dangrousperson

It's supposedly been a decade long genocide and yet still nobody has been able to present any evidence beyond uncorroborated and inconsistent testimonials from a single digit number of sources, filtered exclusively through right wing American NGOs.

Meanwhile two years of genocide in Gaza produced an endless stream of audio-visual and forensic evidence so overwhelmingly undeniable that even governments participateing in the genocide have started to admit it.

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to BrainInABox

Seriously.

The time jordanlund came here to make an ass of himself about the “Uyghur genocide”: lemmy.ml/post/25050001/1626891…

A snippet from my response:

(a) Show me the Uyghur bodies

(b) Show me the serious bodily or mental harm

(c) Show me the conditions calculated to bring about physical destruction in whole or in part

(d) Show me the measures intended to prevent births within the group

In accordance with China's affirmative action policies towards ethnic minorities, all non-Han ethnic groups were subject to different laws and were usually allowed to have two children in urban areas, and three or four in rural areas.

(e) Show me the forcible transfer of children from one group to another group

All you have are a couple of photos of prisons, which proves nothing, and some garbage testimonies that we’ve debunked a thousand fucking times already.

in reply to BrainInABox

Both things can be true, China has very tight control of media and they're officially doing only stuff to terrorists. It's literally impossible to hide carpet bombing apartment blocks anywhere in the world. Disappearing people into reeducation camps inside isn't.
in reply to MDCCCLV

Both things can be true


Anything can be true if you retreat into your mind palace of pure logic and reasoning

Then you can literally just say whatever the fuck you want

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in reply to MDCCCLV

in reply to MDCCCLV

With the numbers that Adrian Zenz claims it's impossible to hide for that long.
in reply to dangrousperson

The real victims in Xinjiang were the people who got stabbed & bombed & run over by CIA-funded Salafi jihad terrorists, which fortunately is no longer a thing, much to the CIA’s chagrin.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terroris…

in reply to dangrousperson

No shit the CIA isn’t mentioned. Do you think CIA agents would have been there at the scenes of these terrorist attacks? That’s not how any of this works.
in reply to davel

Your argument seams conflicting. On one hand your arguing that there isn't enough evidence to argue that there is no genocide in china (which I agree with) but your also stating that the US has covered up all the evidence of there involvement with terrorism in china but the cia is still involved. What evidence heavily suggests or proves there involvement?
in reply to dangrousperson

It will 200% be declassified as a CIA operation in 40 years, but by then new accusations on new enemies of he US will be the new topic no one is able to question. If the US still exists by then lol
in reply to dangrousperson

Where is the evidence? This article is an interview showing two people telling stories, one of which is selling a book, just like Yeonmi Park.
I can too volunteer for an interview as I tell how Greenland is genociding left handed people. But nobody will ever want to pay me for that.
in reply to narwhal

Reporter: [REDACTED]
Reason: Chinese genocide denialist


Yes, reporter, that is precisely what we’re doing. We’re denying that there was or is a genocide in Xinjiang.
We also deny the white genocide in South Africa, among other bogus accusations.

in reply to davel

Genocides are real things, so it's important we reliably identify them with factual evidence, not falling for atrocity propaganda.
Incorrectly identifying something as genocide is irresponsible much like denying a case of genocide that is actually taking place.
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in reply to jankforlife

Whataboutism, and possibly propaganda. They are both horrible and should not exist. Moral superiority doesn't matter if people are being systematically murdered.
This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to barnaclebutt

Jesus Christ, "Whataboutism" really does just mean anything other than complete blind belief in the American Nat-sec blob now. "Oh, you don't believe that people who activity cheer on the genocide of Palestinians are being sincere in their claimed concern for Chinese Muslims? WHATABOUTISM!"

people are being systematically murdered.


I assume you're referring to Gaza? Because not even the most frothing sinophobes have tried to claim a "systematic murder" of Muslims in China, so if you're not referring to Gaza, you are literally making up lies whole cloth.

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to barnaclebutt

When dealing with hypocrites, whataboutism is the correct and logically consistent response.

People who complain about whataboutism are 99% hypocrites whose hypocrisy has been pointed out. And they have no rational arguments to defend their view other than deflecting the topic.

in reply to herseycokguzelolacak

in reply to jankforlife

Translation, we are very concerned because someone else is doing the killing, they took ur, joooobsss
in reply to jankforlife

Valid meme but hopefully it doesn't minimize the plight of Uyghurs in peoples minds.
in reply to Aljernon

Oh cool, you also gargle propaganda from an evangelical nutjob Adrian Zens and from the U.S State Department on it's number-one global rival. Very analytical and socialist of you.

There is no "plight", the U.N found nothing and reported nothing. Again and again, people like you do the work of the feds back in the 50s-60s.

in reply to jankforlife

Genocide is bad. If your ideology prevents you from agreeing with that statement, you are a monster.
in reply to ayyy

Nobody here is denying that genocide is bad, what's in question is what the US Empire says is happening vs what is actually happening. The US Empire has lied before, such as the babies taken from incubators story or Iraq's WMD, but it was only long after the dust had begun to settle in Iraq that the liberals started to agree with the leftists that the evidence was actually insufficient after all.
in reply to ayyy

Genocide IS bad, but the "muslim genocide" in China is nothing but a CIA op, as usual
in reply to jankforlife

Hot take:

The US has committed horrifying war crimes and crimes against humanity against Muslims and continues to do so.

And so does China

Its always fascinating to see the war between Nazis and Tankies fight over which imperial power is based, rather than demonstrating a working frontal lobe and damning both for their crimes.

in reply to HazardousBanjo

And so does China


The only "evidence" of this comes from the empire and is demonstrably false

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to hunnybubny

Please explain for the class what imperialism is in your view and how China fits that.
in reply to Cowbee [he/they]

Skip to the nameca...

Oh wait. We are at the belittling flowchart. I do not know this one yet.

Let me grab popcorn.

in reply to hunnybubny

Not only has China been an imperialist regional super power for the majority of its lo g history, but simply ask Taiwan, the Uyghurs, Tibet, Hong Kong, Vietnam or any of the various countries China is practicing neocolonialism in in Africa or Island nations
in reply to HazardousBanjo

This is fanfiction. China isn't practicing neocolonialism in Africa, it's engaging in south-south trade that is actually helping African countries escape the trappings of western imperialism. Taiwan was invaded by the KMT when they lost the war, and took over the island. The Xinjiang and Tibet are both doing well and support the PRC, and Hong Kong is gradually doing better now that they aren't under British colonial rule. Vietnam is a strong trade partner with China.
in reply to HazardousBanjo

Someone once put together a book titled, "One Hundred Authors Against Einstein." Einstein dismissed the book with the quip, "Why one hundred? If I were really wrong, they'd only need one."
in reply to OBJECTION!

Sounds like a colossal reach at best, and pathetic cope at worst.

You understand the colossal differences between multiple independent journalists researching and reporting on the same topic, and a large organized group of pseudointellectuals trying to disprove a single person based on vibes alone, right?

You seem to be very desperately, and pathetically holding onto a form of fallacy of composition:

practicalpie.com/fallacy-of-co…

in reply to HazardousBanjo

No, I'm simply calling out a lazy gish gallop. It's the same in both cases.

How many sources are listed on the Wikipedia page for Christianity? If I accept your logic as valid, it seems I'll have to convert.

in reply to HazardousBanjo

The 400 citations in question:

[1] Victims of Communism Memorial Association

[2] Burger Eagle Freedom Institute

[3] China Freedom NGO (Washington DC)

[4-399] Western State Television Station (retrieved in 2020)

[400] Literally the CIA

The article editors in question:

u/USA_STEM_Edgelord_USA_1990

u/TotallyNotAFed69

u/WhiteCisManInHis30s

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)
in reply to Socialism_Everyday

Good job outing yourself as someone who can only read up to 3 lines before they have to vomit bullshit onto the internet.
in reply to jankforlife

Wikipedia is one of the most reliable sources of public information, most especially do to the international collaboration efforts on it.

You can't just dismiss a source on the basis that you don't like it. You need to provide actual evidence that the source is untrustworthy

in reply to HazardousBanjo

Wikipedia is one of the most reliable sources of public information


Yeah if you're looking up wood joints and math theorems. Not if you're trying to learn anything about politics or history that ties into the interests of the systems and institutions that filter the media allowed as valid citations.

You need to provide actual evidence that the source is untrustworthy


Do they ban the New York Times because they lied the country into every war it's been in since McKinley?

This entry was edited (2 weeks ago)