Despite only being validated in February, I think Group federation has been a smashing success for the Fediverse.
I use Fediverse groups every day.
And if you’re interacting with this post, so are you.
Fediverse groups even make Mastodon that much more extensible despite Mastodon itself not officially supporting groups yet.
codeberg.org/fediverse/fep/src…
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Toni :mastodon:
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Federacion de Grupos?
Podrías explicarlo mejor?, gracias.
cc/ @p4g
Mnnn, acabo de ver que >>>>> @fediversenews es un grupo tambien, pero repito, ¿como funcionan y para que sirven?
cc/ @xikufrancesc
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HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to Toni :mastodon: • • •@coloco
I second this, how can I use, Facebook like (?) Groups...
a) on #Mastodon or
b) on other #Fedi platforms.
@p4g @fediversenews
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Chris Trottier
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •Fediverse News reshared this.
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •So, this is probably like setting up a joint mail address on an e-mail server that forwards mails (posts) to the specified people of the group, correct?
What I would need, however, is to thickly "categorize" contacts into group, so as to be more targeted.
E.g. not all people who enjoy #UKpol are interested in #History, etc.
@coloco @fediversenews
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Chris Trottier
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •Fediverse News reshared this.
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Moderation...someI have been arguing for due to the arrival of the #Metas and #Birdsite users with very different cultures.
But is it something that I can do proactively with my threads?
Probably not, I guess, for as much as I try working in tandem with myself, I am not a group, correct?
@coloco @fediversenews
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narF 🎲
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to narF 🎲 • • •@narF
Maybe.
Amy link so I can investigate?
narF 🎲
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •@HistoPol You can start here: mastodon.social/lists
And find more info online: ecosia.org/search?q=mastodon%2…
Mastodon
Mastodon hosted on mastodon.socialHistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to narF 🎲 • • •@narF
Thanks.
I will look into this.
Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •@HistoPol
It's so easy that you probably don't even notice you're doing it already now.
You follow the group exactly like you follow a Mastodon user.
At least in the cases of Guppe, Lemmy, /kbin and Friendica groups/forums, you post to them by mentioning them like you'd mention a Mastodon user. Interaction with groups/forums on Hubzilla and (streams) is somewhat different; I've yet to find out how well it works.
@Chris Trottier Yes, @Fediverse News runs on the #Friendica node venera.social.
@t̳̿͟͞o̳̿͟͞n̳̿͟͞i :mastodon:
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Mike Macgirvin
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •Fediverse News reshared this.
Kristoff Bonne 🇪🇺 🇧🇪
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •Hi all, in light of what happened earlier this week, we do have to keep in mind that groups (like guppe groups) are the perfect tool for a spammer to increase his/her reach with very little effort.
Perhaps, before implementing groups, we should first look at automated spam-detection / removal systems. If this isn't done, we risk that the groups will be become vehicles for spammers, which will probably completely kill of the service.
Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Kristoff Bonne 🇪🇺 🇧🇪 • • •@Kristoff Bonne 🇪🇺 🇧🇪 We don't have to implement them.
#Mastodon feels like it has to implement them. The #Fediverse doesn't have to implement them because they are already implemented.
@Fediverse News is on #Friendica which is not a modified Mastodon instance, but a project of its very own. When Mastodon was launched in 2016, Friendica had already been around for 6 years with a full-blown group/forum functionality.
Groups/forums in the Fediverse are actually older than the Fediverse itself.
Yohan Yukiya Sese ♾️ 사요한 🦣
in reply to Kristoff Bonne 🇪🇺 🇧🇪 • • •@kristoff
It will depend on the platform. For example, #Friendica (and to an extent #Hubzilla and #Streams), the owner of the group (and anyone else given moderation access) can block accounts. There is also chirp.social which can also block accounts.
Then there is #GNUsocial, which is a rebranded #StatusNet itself a rebranded #Laconica (the first #Fediverse software, c. 2008) have built-in groups feature; which IIRC, can also block users if needed.
Personally, services like Guppe really need to add moderation features, otherwise, what you just described will more likely happen.
@jupiter_rowland @fediversenews
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Kristoff Bonne 🇪🇺 🇧🇪
in reply to Yohan Yukiya Sese ♾️ 사요한 🦣 • • •@youronlyone @jupiter_rowland Hi all!
Well, in the end, where and how this gets implemented, who has to do the work, and if you put the workload at the side of human moderators or some automated tools, that is all secondary.
The only point I wanted to make is that the fediverse has grown quite fast in the last year, which starts to make it an interested target for spammers; and that unfiltered "multiplication engines" are the perfect tool for that.
Kristoff Bonne 🇪🇺 🇧🇪
in reply to Yohan Yukiya Sese ♾️ 사요한 🦣 • • •@youronlyone @jupiter_rowland OK for human moderation, but is that still scalable for the fediverse with tens of millions of people?
Why not implement the spam detection engine for activitypub as an independent software-module that can be placed in front of any fediverse server, no matter what software the instance is running?
This does probably require a standardized API between the fediverse instance software and the spam-detection module so that these two can work together.
Kevin Davidson
in reply to Kristoff Bonne 🇪🇺 🇧🇪 • • •Kevin Davidson
in reply to Kevin Davidson • • •@kristoff @youronlyone @jupiter_rowland People with eating disorders, at suicide risk and marginalised communities still under attack.
People complain about Mastodon’s moderation model, largely because it’s people and people disagree and make mistakes all the time. But it mostly works. Small communities can keep control of the behaviour of their own members. And if they don’t, they get ostracised.
eshep
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • •By FB-like, do you mean some sort of membership/access control? Not sure if there's an explicit feature that supports this, if someone knows, I'd love to hear about it.
My guess is this could be sorta doable by creating a forum account and adjusting the security for it so that posts are not visible to the public. Then all you should need to do is curate the contacts. Friendica has a public list of all its forums which can used from anywhere across the fediverse.
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Kevin Davidson
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴 • • •Kevin Davidson
in reply to Kevin Davidson • • •In fact there’s another type of group that it is just a bot - the p4g group mentioned in this thread.
Kevin Davidson
in reply to Kevin Davidson • • •Kevin Davidson
in reply to Kevin Davidson • • •Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Kevin Davidson • • •@Kevin Davidson This has nothing to do with Mastodon and everything with Friendica.
On Friendica (and Hubzilla and (streams)), if you comment on a post (remember the start-post-and-comments structure), you don't have to mention the author of the post. They and everyone else who has the post itself in their timeline/stream will see your comment and everyone else's comments even without a single mention. You only need mentions if you comment on another comment, and even these may actually only be cosmetical.
The reason why I keep adding mentions to my comments manually (with a little help from auto-complete) is to make sure that all users on ActivityPub projects involved in the thread receive them.
@HistoPol @t̳̿͟͞o̳̿͟͞n̳̿͟͞i :mastodon: @Chris Trottier
Kevin Davidson
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •@jupiter_rowland I know, I use Friendica as well. Just pointing out that it looks strange to Mastodon users.
I see Groups is listed on the Mastodon roadmap as MAS-15 and “in progress”. Maybe the new native groups support will help and it will be displayed in a way that makes it clearer.
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
in reply to Toni :mastodon: • • •@coloco
Esta al principio de todo en la foto con hyperlink, pero en inglés.
@atomicpoet @p4g @fediversenews @xikufrancesc
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Ed Ross
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •I was surprised to learn how easy it is to make a new group with a.gup.pe/ - just search for the group you want and it is is auto-created for you if not already made.
@fediversenews
Guppe Groups
a.gup.peclacke: exhausted pixie dream boy 🇸🇪🇭🇰💙💛 likes this.
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Kevin Davidson
Unknown parent • • •Interestingly it hasn’t been boosted (yet?) by p4g, but all of my earlier replies certainly were.
eshep
Unknown parent • •reshared this
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Kevin Davidson
Unknown parent • • •The Mastodon web interface is usually very out of date when displaying replies/boosts/likes and often just doesn’t show the information (even number of boosts or likes). Other clients can display this and make sure it’s more up to date.
webhat
in reply to Kevin Davidson • • •Kevin Davidson
Unknown parent • • •I personally don’t like the Mastodon web UI. elk or phanpy are probably better if you want a desktop web UI. I mostly use mobile.
Kevin Davidson
in reply to Kevin Davidson • • •@FinchHaven @HistoPol @coloco @p4g @IceCubesApp Could be just the updates are still in the queue and will turn up eventually.
Incidentally, this is what the thread looks like on Friendica (actually on the instance hosting this group). You can see it’s boosted (reshared) the posts and that we’re both using Mastodon.
eshep
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Kevin Davidson
Unknown parent • • •@mathias @coloco @FinchHaven @HistoPol My reading of the document at the head of this thread is that this is how groups are all supposed to work. Each thread in the group has an initial post (the example is a “Page” type), and then all the replies are Note types that are attached to it, or to previous replies.
codeberg.org/fediverse/fep/src…
fep
Codeberg.orgKevin Davidson
Unknown parent • • •Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Kevin Davidson • • •@Kevin Davidson @FinchHaven Also, Mastodon isn't so big because 10 million people willingly chose Mastodon instead of any of the other Fediverse projects.
Mastodon is so big because 10 million Twitter users were RAILROADED HARD from Twitter to one specific Mastodon instance. They were never offered a choice. They weren't even told that there's more to the Fediverse than Mastodon. And many many Mastodon users, especially on the big, general-purpose instances, still don't know that. I still keep coming across people who have joined in November, and who are completely surprised to learn that the Fediverse is not only Mastodon half a year later.
Mastodon isn't bigger because it's better. Mastodon is bigger because 99.99% of all newcomers to the Fediverse over the last 15 months believed there's nothing else. Again, many still believe that.
Trenton Matthews
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Trenton Matthews • • •@Trenton Matthews I guess then we'll need three versions of some tutorials, depending on where people are standing:
Kevin Davidson
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •Kevin Davidson
in reply to Kevin Davidson • • •Kevin Davidson
in reply to Kevin Davidson • • •Benjamin
in reply to Kevin Davidson • • •@MetalSamurai @jupiter_rowland Yeah I was about to say, no one was being railroaded into mastodon.social during November, they were closed to new users unless you had someone who could send you an invite.
So it became a bit of a bluesky situation where people were asking for invites to .social or .art because they didn't understand servers and wanted to be where everyone else was.
Benjamin
in reply to Kevin Davidson • • •So it became a bit of a bluesky situation where people were asking for invites to .social or .art because they didn't understand servers and wanted to be where everyone else was.
Kevin Davidson
in reply to Benjamin • • •I’m not comfortable with the current decision to make that the default for anyone using the app to sign up (and also the spreadmastodon.org site). joinmastodon.org/ still offers you a choice.
Spread Mastodon
Spread MastodonBenjamin
in reply to Kevin Davidson • • •@MetalSamurai @jupiter_rowland Definitely agree, I don't think making an instance the default especially as one as large as mastodon.social is a good idea - but I can also sympathise with the reasoning behind doing so.
As I brought up here - they should try to strike a balance between friendly to new users while also spreading users out so they're not all in one place.
mastodon.social/@BenjaminNelan…
Benjamin
2023-05-05 06:20:06
Benjamin
in reply to Benjamin • • •@MetalSamurai @jupiter_rowland Also think November really cemented the need for more 'general' instances. A huge roadblock for many people who were trying to join was this concern over 'siloing' themselves into a single interest.
Arguably too much attention put into instances having some kind of targeted focus. Sort of muddies the waters - the local feed should never really be the most important thing in a federated system.