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Personally I always had issues with the concept of a "country" and "borders"

Like who are you to tell me where I can and cannot go on this planet..

Everyone should be free to travel where ever they want on this planet

Just because a huuman claimed land centuries ago decides how we live, it's pretty messed up if you ask me

in reply to stux⚡

Agree 💯 It's rediciolous and stupid as flags and this Eddie Izzard-clip is funny:

youtu.be/UTduy7Qkvk8?feature=s…

🖖

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Martin Vermeer FCD
Idly wishing continental ice sheets were holy.
in reply to stux⚡

I generally think this as well. But then I also think about the large variety of human societies that we have today, and how I would rather live in some (say, France) rather than others (say, the US, or those with no women's rights). If everyone could live everywhere without having to accept the laws of each country because there was no concept of country - wouldn't it end up being about "might makes right"?
Or maybe we can have no borders, no countries, and still somehow all agree to live in harmony, between each other and also between humans and nature? 🤔
in reply to El Duvelle

@elduvelle More like an United Nations 😉

We need a government but not in the current forms, more general

Perhaps current countries first as provinces

But at least no single rulers like kings, queens, presidents or dictators

in reply to El Duvelle

The opposite. If the mighty can't lock out people, their might shrinks a lot, and it will be easier to set rights in stone, despite what the mighty want.

Mx Verda reshared this.

in reply to Grymt

@grymt
I guess this assumes that a lot more humans are nice than bad. I would like to believe this, and I think this is how humanity has survived originally - by helping each other, including the weakest members - but I am not fully convinced it is the case.
Or rather, even if there's more nice people overall, they seem to very easily follow dictators, strong-looking leaders that shout loudly but are just really selfish. How do we avoid that from happening in our utopic, border-free world?
in reply to stux⚡

How do you approach in-group favoritism (a.k.a. in-group bias) and its effects when anyone can move anywhere?

Does that risk creating tensions and undermining the cohesion of the host country?

Even in places like the US and EU where people are free to move around, most stay in their country/state of origin.

When people do migrate en masse, they tend to stick together and form enclaves like Brits and Scandinavians do in Spain.

It's a lofty idea that I think is fraught with challenges.

@stux

in reply to stux⚡

Or as Donald Trump said about the Canada-US border back when he wanted to annex it: «random lines on a map»
in reply to Tor Iver Wilhelmsen

@toriver Away with the lines! No more US or Canada and while we're at it, also dump Trump since no no
in reply to stux⚡

I guess you are also telling Palestine, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Uganda, Turkey, Iraq, Yemen, Libya etc. they do not have the right to borders? Or do you mean just The USA and European Countries?
This entry was edited (5 months ago)
in reply to Miss Warcraft

@MissWarcraft @toriver
Well, the entire thing about middle eastern borders is that they were drawn by the British Empire with not much logic behind them.

There isn't really a right or a reason to borders. They're artifacts of past and current struggles. If the middle east was peaceful, the borders would disappear, just like they have in the EU. That's what peace means, really.

And different states are just a method of not getting in each other's business. "You do you, I don't care".

in reply to לָקס (לא לותור) لاكس

@lax @toriver Saudi Arabia created the region of today by CONQUORING it's neighbors, nothing to do with the British! Really, try reading a History Book about the area, you will be amazed at how much they did with out the British.
in reply to Miss Warcraft

@MissWarcraft @toriver

...Saudi Arabia is 1/20ish middle eastern countries, and its ruler-like borders are still ruler-like for a reason.

> Really, try reading a History Book about the area

A bold thing to say to a middle-easterner, after not recognizing a semitic alphabet.

in reply to לָקס (לא לותור) لاكس

@lax @toriver So your saying Saudi Arabia's border was made by the British? Not by them like the History books say? Or did you NOT read what I posted about the Wars. They absorbed other countries over the years. Why do you want to Give Europeans credit for creating Saudi Arabia?
in reply to Miss Warcraft

@MissWarcraft @toriver eh?

I'm saying that the modern borders of the middle east were drawn by empires, and not by some kind of ethno/religious/national difference like in Europe.

Saudi Arabia's ones weren't drawn by brits, yes, but these are still imperially-defined borders, I don't see how that matters..?

> Why do you want to Give Europeans credit for creating Saudi Arabia?

...what

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stux⚡

@ranx @krans But wasn't there even more anarachy?

Nowadays we "keep each other in check" with modern media to record etc

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Peter Brett

@ranx “Everyone free to go anywhere on the planet” worked without issues for literally thousands of years. Why would it be different now?

Administrative boundaries and controlled borders are two different things. You can have one without the other.

@stux #PostNationalism

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stux⚡

@BradRubenstein Difference is.. I don't have to own every single piece of land I come across :blobcatgiggle:

We can also enjoy stuff without having to "own" it all I guess

in reply to stux⚡

A country is just a garden around your house, but bigger. You probably wouldn't wanna let bad people enter and stay in your garden just like that...
in reply to Ivan Carapovic

@Chapz What is "bad people"? :blobcatgiggle:

Soneone who's trying to flee war and looking for a better home or?

The line is very thin

in reply to stux⚡

Bad people is subjective. It could be a murderer or simply someone I don't trust. But my point is I don't think anyone who wants no boders would also keep their door wide open at night for anyone who might want to enter. Otherwise it would be just double standards.

Borders exist for people inside to feel safe. Just like in medieval times when people for whatever reason preferred to live behind big stone walls. Safety comes before freedom.

in reply to stux⚡

@Chapz

Bad people, like fare dodgers 🙄
youtu.be/jURfZxp9E6w

in reply to Ivan Carapovic

@Ivan Carapovic you have no right over who I invite to my garden. If a majority of my neighbors don't like my uncle, I still can welcome my uncle. This idea that a country is to be treated as if it were private property is some pretty collectivist nonsense that my neighbors rights are greater than mine.
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stux⚡

@BradRubenstein Tihi :blobcatgiggle:

Hmm.. otherwise it won't be any different from all those before in history

in reply to stux⚡

this is what many indigenous peoples always found difficult to believe, that, just by claiming a place where you happen to be, you reduce the rights of anyone who steps there in future.
in reply to stux⚡

Borders are good in a way though, in that they Russia out! I love the border right there, 300km to the east!
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阜日木卩由巾凡
countries and borders are the social way Homo Sapiens resolve the territory dispute that inevitably came as other social animals do too. take lions, chimpanzee, rabbit or deers all have their roar, fight and sneer. As a migrant myself in the UK I am actually quite grateful and surprised that the level of discrimination and aggression toward us has been kept at such a low level for so long.
in reply to stux⚡

As arbitrary as borders and the concept of land, is the fact that nobody chose to be born where they were born. So just randomness decides whether you're born in a rich country under the rule of law, or in a war zone.
in reply to stux⚡

True indeed… it is about power, control and resources…
in reply to stux⚡

countries are like Pokemon. They are all fantasy, and someone will always tell you theirs is better lacking any proof. Now add religion and money, and we got the holy Trinity of bullshit covered 😅
in reply to stux⚡

I completely agree, the whole concept doesn't make sense to me!
in reply to stux⚡

⏫the Westphalian nation state system was the project 2025 of its time

A blueprint for greater control of the poors

It worked so well that a couple centuries later frontiers became borders became do you have a right to be here...it's a new phenomenon

And they keep pressing their luck.

Gaza is being allowed by the nation states, because it is a blueprint for what's next for the oligarch's country club of the world

in reply to stux⚡

All animals (Including Humans) have Territories. It is a way to ensure they can feed their family. They have always chased the interloper out of their territory. Occasionally a newcomer will ask to join. The leader will decide yes or no. The question is who decided we do not have the right to defend our children and what we have built? #Immigration
This entry was edited (5 months ago)
in reply to stux⚡

Objectively that sounds reasonable, but I wouldn't like it much if someone built their house in my backyard, or in my living room for that matter. I claim ownership because I bought it from the dude who bought it from the dude who bought it from the dude who once claimed it as their own.
in reply to stux⚡

Tell Iran's Ayatollah, or Putin and I really want to watch when you tell Kim Yong Un you go where you want when you want. Do post Video of how that went.
in reply to stux⚡

Dreams crash into reality.
Imagine, there's no country, .... .
Schengen (in Europe),
....

Something to cry for.

in reply to stux⚡

What I can't understand is how people can be proud to be x nationality? It's not like you had a choice in the matter (well generally anyway).
in reply to stux⚡

Sensitive content

in reply to stux⚡

Humans will raid before they starve. Land that sustains becomes covetted. Tribes form to protect it.
We've haven't evolved past this point.
in reply to stux⚡

I deliberately start my post with "personally I..." because it's the way how I think about a certain subject in a given time

As we all know, there is a LOT more to it then just an idea or vision

At this point in time the world is going through a lot of trouble and my idea or vision does not make super much sense, I know

It's just how, I personally again, would like to see the world turn out

Unfort we are not ready for this, if ever

in reply to stux⚡

One must first imagine a better world before they can create it.

Keep sharing your vision of the world you’d like to see.

🫶

in reply to stux⚡

The borders are keeping the Americans and Russians away from us
in reply to stux⚡

A personal memoir essay by me touches on this a bit. It is the story of how my Mother's brief career as international jewel smuggler at the age of 8 in 1929 led to her becoming Anti-Zionist in 1979. It contains a bit of left history and a bit of American Jewish history and contains some thoughts on nationalism. znetwork.org/znetarticle/jews-… @stux
in reply to stux⚡

Unknown parent

@_L1vY_ @toriver thanks. imma just block I think, reporting on fedi has the negative of knowing your admin and hence social anxiety, hehe
in reply to stux⚡

Border control was meant to be a temporal measurement during WW1, but somehow it stuck around :/
in reply to stux⚡

See that sounds nice but world government/anarchy (as you get without countries) would be bad for minorities. In the case of a world government, there'd be *nowhere to go*. Right now it's theoretically possible for Tibetans or Uyghurs to leave China -- if the world government, which after all is going to be ~17% Chinese, goes after them, they're screwed.
If it's anarchy, well, say you're a queer person in a small, VERY red town in a blue state. Anarchy means no punishment for them.
in reply to stux⚡

Here's why you have different countries:

youtube.com/watch?v=tzQuuoKXVq…

in reply to stux⚡

Consider what people like the Tohono O'Odham are still putting up with.

tonation-nsn.gov/nowall/

in reply to stux⚡

True but realistically humans have done this throughout all of history
in reply to stux⚡

I feel the same way about the concept of “owning” land. It’s always been there. Some dude shows up and few centuries ago and goes “mine!” One cannot “own” a piece of the planet. They can only claim it or take it from someone.
in reply to stux⚡

I don't know how this eventually turns out but I'm really happy to see the right questions being asked.
in reply to stux⚡

@Arkenston It’s rooted in the concept of private property, which is the keystone of capitalism
in reply to stux⚡

For example but personally you could be a terrorist or even worse a russian. Why should decent states allow you in their sweet home?