Long time ago when I switched from Windows to Linux (for ideological reasons, not because it is a better OS) I found great help in the transition phase of getting familiar with Linux through using the Linux distro; Mint, because it was so similar in appearance to what I was used to. Having the option of a Linux that look similar to MacOS is great gift to the community and it surely can help ease the move for those who use Mac over to Linux. So in this case, the similarity is a feature. Seeing this "imperfection" (obviously it cannot be a copy) or "similarity" as ugly is probably more an indicator of the viewers mindset and not the OS itself.
Every major version of Mac OS X macOS has come with a new default wallpaper. As you can see, I have collected them all here. While great in their day, the early wallpapers are now quite small in the world of 5K and 6K displays.
There should be very few distributions which have Thunar as a ""dependancy"". It's almost never installed by default unless that distro is focused on #xfce, and wants to provide a cohesive environment. I'd argue that #Thunar is one of the least intrusive gui file managers available.
Details, please. Which package tool are you using to uninstall it? If you have a "desktop" package that includes Thunar as part of the desktop, of course this will also uninstall the "desktop" virtual package e.g. "xubuntu-desktop", but that will not uninstall any actual applications. It just means you are choosing to no longer have the "standard" set of XFCE desktop packages, which includes Thunar.
I agree with @ミ★ Confederate Space Force ★彡... When I choose Linux, I took it the way it is (was) and made it look to my own taste.
About Thunar, (FXCE MX-Linux from 17.x to 23.1) I see it as a dinosaur... but since I want to stick to Fxce and tried other main file manager, I prefer to keep it and accept it the way it is... 'till I find better.
@tomgrzybow@societas.online When you choose a "desktop" virtual package, you are choosing the distribution's selection of standard applications they have included as part of that particular "desktop". The XFCE desktop generally includes Thunar. That doesn't mean the windowing system depends on it - the beauty of Linux is that you're free to make your own choices. If you don't like Thunar, nobody is forcing you to keep it. You just have to accept that you have made different choices than the upstream packagers, and therefore have to opt out of accepting their recommendations.
Debian and Ubuntu don't require you to use those "destop environment" virtual packages, and you can set up a system without ever installing them. Just pick X or Wayland, then a window manager, and the applications you want. You can have as minimal a system as you like. You can also safely uninstall the "desktop" package without any issues, as I explained earlier.
Once again: windowing systems do not require the use of the "desktop environment" virtual packages. You can use any Linux windowing system of your choice without opting to follow someone else's recommendations. If you don't like other people's recommendations, don't follow them. Complaining about their recommendations not meeting your personal preferences rather than just doing things your own way is unhelpful.
You do have the freedom to not run the thing you do not want by simply choosing to not use it. Choosing to use something that does not afford you that choice, is not a valid argument for the lack of such freedom. If the distribution you choose to use does not by default work the way you want it to work, that is simply a failure in your ability configure it to your liking.
@tomgrzybow, I think maybe I don't understand what you're complaint is. The way I'd read it was; the collection of packages I chose to have installed on the distribution I chose to use, is forcing me to keep Thunar installed against my will. If this is not the case, please explain the situation more clearly/precisely so that others can help solve your problem. If I have read this correctly, please stop complaining about your choice being forced upon you by someone else.
You don't seem to be communicating effectively, because it sounds like you're asking other people to do things the way you personally want them. That's not how Free Software works. People have the freedom of choice to do things their own way. If you don't like the recommendation of Thunar, create your own "desktop" package that doesn't include it. People who agree with you can then choose to use your version.
Once again: nothing and nobody are "forcing" you to use Thunar. You don't have to keep it installed. Just uninstall it. You've been asked to explain why you can't or won't, and you didn't provide any details.
Once again, you keep saying you "cannot" remove Thunar, and that xfce "depends on it". These are both factually incorrect. There is a difference between the XFCE desktop and the "xfce-desktop" virtual package. Perhaps that is where you are having difficulties. You are welcome to use the XFCE desktop without Thunar, and you should do so if that's what you prefer.
@tomgrzybow, would you mind explaining what you are doing after uninstalling thunar that makes it show up again? Maybe you could even go so far as to show us an example of how you are attempting to uninstall it?
You definitely can use another file manager instead of Thunar, and other people have posted about their success in doing so. Some suggestions include Caja, Nemo, Nautilus and PCManFM.
If you mean the “xfce4” package, I’ve already explained several times that it is just the distribution packaging team’s list of what they have selected for a recommended XFCE desktop experience. Which includes Thunar, because that’s what they recommend. That package is not the “XFCE desktop”, and uninstalling it will not prevent you from having an XFCE desktop environment. So you shouldn’t be messing around with the dummy file, just go ahead and allow the “xfce4” package to be uninstalled. You have decided you don’t want to follow their recommendations, so you don’t want that package.
From the package description:
“If you intend to use Xfce4 and want the full experience then installing this package and the packages it Recommends is a great place to start. If you just want to pick and choose the core components then feel free to remove this package.”
If you mean the “xfce4” package, I’ve already explained several times that it is just the distribution packaging team’s list of what they have selected for a recommended XFCE desktop experience. Which includes Thunar, because that’s what they recommend. That package is not the “XFCE desktop”, and uninstalling it will not prevent you from having an XFCE desktop environment. So you shouldn’t be messing around with the dummy file, just go ahead and allow the “xfce4” package to be uninstalled. You have decided you don’t want to follow their recommendations, so you don’t want that package.
From the package description:
“If you intend to use Xfce4 and want the full experience then installing this package and the packages it Recommends is a great place to start. If you just want to pick and choose the core components then feel free to remove this package.”
I don't understand your definition of "freedom". Do you want to set up your system the way you like? Because you are free to do so. Do you want to dictate what other people can recommend in their distribution? Because that is not "freedom", that is you enforcing your opinions on other people. Who are unpaid volunteers.
The freedom for you to dictate what other people can do on their systems is not what "software freedom" means. You are welcome to use Xfce4 without Thunar. "The xfce folks" you are referring to are the Debian and Devuan Xfce maintainers, who have chosen to recommend Thunar because most people want it. They have clearly spelled out in the "xfce4" virtual package description that it's just a recommendation and if you don't want it, don't install that package. You will still have an Xfce desktop when the "xfce4" package is not installed. You have a choice to run whatever you want, to run Xfce with or without Thunar, and it's been explained to you how to do so.
You can't have it both ways. Either you want to follow the Debian and Devuan recommentations or you don't. If you disagree, you're welcome to set up your system your way. Everything will still work fine, and you can still use the package management system to update all your packages. You can also create your own Debian and Devuan virtual packages that contain your own recommendations for an "Xfce desktop" that contains a
... show more
The freedom for you to dictate what other people can do on their systems is not what "software freedom" means. You are welcome to use Xfce4 without Thunar. "The xfce folks" you are referring to are the Debian and Devuan Xfce maintainers, who have chosen to recommend Thunar because most people want it. They have clearly spelled out in the "xfce4" virtual package description that it's just a recommendation and if you don't want it, don't install that package. You will still have an Xfce desktop when the "xfce4" package is not installed. You have a choice to run whatever you want, to run Xfce with or without Thunar, and it's been explained to you how to do so.
You can't have it both ways. Either you want to follow the Debian and Devuan recommentations or you don't. If you disagree, you're welcome to set up your system your way. Everything will still work fine, and you can still use the package management system to update all your packages. You can also create your own Debian and Devuan virtual packages that contain your own recommendations for an "Xfce desktop" that contains a different file manager as a replacement for Thunar, or none at all, and submit that to become part of Debian and/or Devuan for other users who may share your opinions on Thunar.
What is it you actually want, Tom? Do you want things your way, or do you want everyone else to do things your way? That's only freedom for you.
I'm going to explain it one more time. Steps to install Xfce without Thunar:
Install the "xfce4" package or the "task-xfce-desktop" package which includes that plus extra applications.
Uninstall the "thunar" package, since you don't want it. This will uninstall the "xfce4" package, which is fine. It's done its job and installed all the recommended packages. They will stay installed and get updated just fine without the virtual package that initially installed them.
Why do you want to keep the "xfce4" package if you disagree with it? Why do you want to tell other people they can't use Thunar?
Adam Hunt
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •iBuntu: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fil…
MacOS 11: cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/P3Uehz…
Pretty much identical!
File:IBuntu 2.1 default desktop - English.png - Wikimedia Commons
commons.wikimedia.orgFortuitous
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •Having the option of a Linux that look similar to MacOS is great gift to the community and it surely can help ease the move for those who use Mac over to Linux.
So in this case, the similarity is a feature. Seeing this "imperfection" (obviously it cannot be a copy) or "similarity" as ugly is probably more an indicator of the viewers mindset and not the OS itself.
Adam Hunt
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •mc
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •Adam Hunt
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •That actually is the default background for MacOS 11 Big Sur:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacOS_Bi…
17th major version of the macOS operating system
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Adam Hunt
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •Adam Hunt
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •Yes Tiger had a blue background: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X…
Here is the whole wallpaper history: 512pixels.net/projects/default…
Every Default macOS Wallpaper – in Glorious 6K Resolution
512 PixelsAdam Hunt
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •Adam Hunt
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •Adam Hunt
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •Adam Hunt
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •Adam Hunt
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •Adam Hunt
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •Adam Hunt
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •eshep
Unknown parent • •eshep
Unknown parent • •eshep
Unknown parent • •Andrew Pam
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •Andrew Pam
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •Adam Hunt
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •redj 18
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •I agree with @ミ★ Confederate Space Force ★彡...
When I choose Linux, I took it the way it is (was) and made it look to my own taste.
About Thunar, (FXCE MX-Linux from 17.x to 23.1) I see it as a dinosaur... but since I want to stick to Fxce and tried other main file manager, I prefer to keep it and accept it the way it is... 'till I find better.
Andrew Pam
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •@tomgrzybow@societas.online When you choose a "desktop" virtual package, you are choosing the distribution's selection of standard applications they have included as part of that particular "desktop". The XFCE desktop generally includes Thunar. That doesn't mean the windowing system depends on it - the beauty of Linux is that you're free to make your own choices. If you don't like Thunar, nobody is forcing you to keep it. You just have to accept that you have made different choices than the upstream packagers, and therefore have to opt out of accepting their recommendations.
Debian and Ubuntu don't require you to use those "destop environment" virtual packages, and you can set up a system without ever installing them. Just pick X or Wayland, then a window manager, and the applications you want. You can have as minimal a system as you like. You can also safely uninstall the "desktop" package without any issues, as I explained earlier.
Andrew Pam
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •eshep likes this.
Andrew Pam
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •eshep
Unknown parent • •eshep
in reply to Adam Hunt • •Andrew Pam
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •eshep likes this.
Andrew Pam
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •Andrew Pam
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •Adam Hunt
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •Salinger 3 likes this.
Andrew Pam
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •eshep
in reply to Adam Hunt • •Andrew Pam
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •Andrew Pam
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •Andrew Pam
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •If you mean the “xfce4” package, I’ve already explained several times that it is just the distribution packaging team’s list of what they have selected for a recommended XFCE desktop experience. Which includes Thunar, because that’s what they recommend. That package is not the “XFCE desktop”, and uninstalling it will not prevent you from having an XFCE desktop environment. So you shouldn’t be messing around with the dummy file, just go ahead and allow the “xfce4” package to be uninstalled. You have decided you don’t want to follow their recommendations, so you don’t want that package.
From the package description:
“If you intend to use Xfce4 and want the full experience then installing this package and the packages it Recommends is a great place to start. If you just want to pick and choose the core components then feel free to remove this package.”
packages.debian.org/bookworm/x…
... show moreIf you mean the “xfce4” package, I’ve already explained several times that it is just the distribution packaging team’s list of what they have selected for a recommended XFCE desktop experience. Which includes Thunar, because that’s what they recommend. That package is not the “XFCE desktop”, and uninstalling it will not prevent you from having an XFCE desktop environment. So you shouldn’t be messing around with the dummy file, just go ahead and allow the “xfce4” package to be uninstalled. You have decided you don’t want to follow their recommendations, so you don’t want that package.
From the package description:
“If you intend to use Xfce4 and want the full experience then installing this package and the packages it Recommends is a great place to start. If you just want to pick and choose the core components then feel free to remove this package.”
packages.debian.org/bookworm/x…
Debian -- Details of package xfce4 in bookworm
packages.debian.orgAndrew Pam
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •Andrew Pam
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •The freedom for you to dictate what other people can do on their systems is not what "software freedom" means. You are welcome to use Xfce4 without Thunar. "The xfce folks" you are referring to are the Debian and Devuan Xfce maintainers, who have chosen to recommend Thunar because most people want it. They have clearly spelled out in the "xfce4" virtual package description that it's just a recommendation and if you don't want it, don't install that package. You will still have an Xfce desktop when the "xfce4" package is not installed. You have a choice to run whatever you want, to run Xfce with or without Thunar, and it's been explained to you how to do so.
You can't have it both ways. Either you want to follow the Debian and Devuan recommentations or you don't. If you disagree, you're welcome to set up your system your way. Everything will still work fine, and you can still use the package management system to update all your packages. You can also create your own Debian and Devuan virtual packages that contain your own recommendations for an "Xfce desktop" that contains a
... show moreThe freedom for you to dictate what other people can do on their systems is not what "software freedom" means. You are welcome to use Xfce4 without Thunar. "The xfce folks" you are referring to are the Debian and Devuan Xfce maintainers, who have chosen to recommend Thunar because most people want it. They have clearly spelled out in the "xfce4" virtual package description that it's just a recommendation and if you don't want it, don't install that package. You will still have an Xfce desktop when the "xfce4" package is not installed. You have a choice to run whatever you want, to run Xfce with or without Thunar, and it's been explained to you how to do so.
You can't have it both ways. Either you want to follow the Debian and Devuan recommentations or you don't. If you disagree, you're welcome to set up your system your way. Everything will still work fine, and you can still use the package management system to update all your packages. You can also create your own Debian and Devuan virtual packages that contain your own recommendations for an "Xfce desktop" that contains a different file manager as a replacement for Thunar, or none at all, and submit that to become part of Debian and/or Devuan for other users who may share your opinions on Thunar.
What is it you actually want, Tom? Do you want things your way, or do you want everyone else to do things your way? That's only freedom for you.
Andrew Pam
in reply to Adam Hunt • • •I'm going to explain it one more time. Steps to install Xfce without Thunar:
Why do you want to keep the "xfce4" package if you disagree with it? Why do you want to tell other people they can't use Thunar?