State of S3 - Your Laptop is no Laptop anymore
In this article, I aim to take a different approach. We will begin by defining a laptop according to my understanding. The I will share my personal history and journey to this point, as well as my current situation with my home and work laptops. Using this perspective, we will explore the current dysfunctionality of the standby function in modern laptops, followed by a discussion of why this feature still has relevance and right to exist. Finally, we will draw conclusions on what we can learn and take away from this.
State of S3 - Your Laptop is no Laptop anymore - a personal Rant
The state of laptop standby is currently dysfunctional. This personal rant outlines the events that have led to this situation.blog.jeujeus.de
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eshep
in reply to Jure Repinc • •systemctl hibernatewith a proper swap partition? Works perfect every time I've set it up.Linux reshared this.
The Doctor
in reply to eshep • • •eshep
in reply to The Doctor • •Linux reshared this.
Lem453
in reply to eshep • • •Why is hibernation so complicated on Ubuntu (and other Linux distributions)?
Ask Ubuntueshep likes this.
eshep
in reply to Lem453 • •The Doctor
in reply to eshep • • •ThyTTY
in reply to Jure Repinc • • •saigot
in reply to ThyTTY • • •Nothing with a recent AMD gfx Card or APU will officially support S3, and I think Nvidia is the same. Just because it isn't supported doesn't mean they'll intentionally break anything, but over time you'll have more and more bugs related to it and one day it will break and never be fixed.
Personally I use S4 (hibernate) more or less exclusively.
user
in reply to Jure Repinc • • •thedeadwalking4242
in reply to user • • •Edit! I'm wrong! Read below comment
A hibernation state where your laptop completely powers off saving current ram to disk to resume from when the system is powered back on. The article is a pretty interesting read!
takeheart
in reply to thedeadwalking4242 • • •leopold
in reply to takeheart • • •kbin_space_program
in reply to thedeadwalking4242 • • •In windows 10 you can reenable it, but you have dig a bit in the power management control panel to do so.
Its unfortunate that this thinking has bled over to Linux.
med
in reply to thedeadwalking4242 • • •S3 is what people actually think of when they think of sleep mode, or modern standby. The running state of the operating system is stored in RAM, in low power mode. All context for the cpu, other hardware like disks and network is lost and those devices are completely shut down - bar the RAM. Basically, you close the lid at the end of the day, and you're nearly at the same charge level the next morning.
This saves a lot of power. On my older 8th gen intel cpu laptop, it loses maybe 1-2% charge per day in this mode.
My new 13th gen laptop still has deep sleep, or standby (s3) as a hardware function, but it's technically not supported. It actually doesn't work when enabled, and just falls back to s1 (sleep, everything's still on, just in low power mode). It loses about 2-3% per hour in this mode
S4 (Hibernate) does roughly the same as S3, but the OS state is stored to the disk instead of ram, so that can be shut off too. Now the device is completely powered off, losing no charge while 'asleep'.
S5 is off
S4 sleep takes much longer to wake up from than s
... show moreS3 is what people actually think of when they think of sleep mode, or modern standby. The running state of the operating system is stored in RAM, in low power mode. All context for the cpu, other hardware like disks and network is lost and those devices are completely shut down - bar the RAM. Basically, you close the lid at the end of the day, and you're nearly at the same charge level the next morning.
This saves a lot of power. On my older 8th gen intel cpu laptop, it loses maybe 1-2% charge per day in this mode.
My new 13th gen laptop still has deep sleep, or standby (s3) as a hardware function, but it's technically not supported. It actually doesn't work when enabled, and just falls back to s1 (sleep, everything's still on, just in low power mode). It loses about 2-3% per hour in this mode
S4 (Hibernate) does roughly the same as S3, but the OS state is stored to the disk instead of ram, so that can be shut off too. Now the device is completely powered off, losing no charge while 'asleep'.
S5 is off
S4 sleep takes much longer to wake up from than s3, so was less desirable. In the modern computing world (especially end user devices), commonly there's full disk encryption going on, which adds a layer of complexity to resuming from disk, as you would when waking up from hibernation (s4).
Making it resume without putting in a decryption password for example (using a TPM), isn't simple, and breaks a lot when you do system upgades
a lil bee 🐝
in reply to user • • •like this
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MigratingtoLemmy
in reply to a lil bee 🐝 • • •Papamousse
in reply to user • • •blobjim [he/him]
in reply to user • • •user
in reply to user • • •I_Miss_Daniel
in reply to Jure Repinc • • •Zamundaaa
in reply to I_Miss_Daniel • • •Lem453
in reply to I_Miss_Daniel • • •See my post here
lemmy.ca/comment/9578675
Lem453
2024-06-04 02:23:48
See my post here
lemmy.ca/comment/9578675
Lem453
2024-06-04 02:23:48
Papamousse
in reply to Jure Repinc • • •S0idle is a real problem.
Years ago you put your laptop in sleep S3 mode at 5PM, put in the backpack, resume it at 9AM the next morning and it lost maybe 10% battery.
Now S0idle is like a cellphone, always powered, so you put your laptop in a backpack, windows/Linux half support a botched S0 so some devices are still powered, either your laptop overheat or dies because battery reach 0% during the night.
Lem453
in reply to Papamousse • • •This. S0idle was pushed by Microsoft and Intel and amd followed. Now all new non apple CPUs are an embarrassment when it comes to sleep ability which essentially any normal person would expect without thinking about it so when they buy a brand new laptop and it ends up with a dead batter every morning people immediately just buy a Mac and get a much better experience.
Just completely shooting themselves in the foot. Same story with shitty laptop screens for nearly 5 years while Macs had retina displays.
Lem453
in reply to Jure Repinc • • •I have an older XPS where where the CPU still supports deep sleep (S3).
Most distros have it disabled by default now because neither AMD not Intel seem to officially support it in new CPUs (so windows will have the same problem)
To check if your cpu supports it, you can run:
journalctl | grep S1You should see a message that says something like CPU supports S1 S2 S3 etc. if S3 is there then deep sleep is supported and can be enabled.
Ubuntu instructions:
askubuntu.com/questions/102947…
Fedora desktop or atomic instructions:
discussion.fedoraproject.org/t…
Note, this is purely the fault of CPU manufacturers for being so shitty about proper sleep and yet another point that has to be conceeded to apple.
... show moreI have an older XPS where where the CPU still supports deep sleep (S3).
Most distros have it disabled by default now because neither AMD not Intel seem to officially support it in new CPUs (so windows will have the same problem)
To check if your cpu supports it, you can run:
journalctl | grep S1You should see a message that says something like CPU supports S1 S2 S3 etc. if S3 is there then deep sleep is supported and can be enabled.
Ubuntu instructions:
askubuntu.com/questions/102947…
Fedora desktop or atomic instructions:
discussion.fedoraproject.org/t…
Note, this is purely the fault of CPU manufacturers for being so shitty about proper sleep and yet another point that has to be conceeded to apple. Imagine explaining to a normal person that your XPS is really good and way cheaper than a Mac...but the batter will die overnight when you need it in the morning. Literally just shooting themselves in the foot.
Hibernate works as well but takes a bit longer. Hibernate also crashes in many modern systems but again works great in my older XPS. You have to manually activate this as well and it's really not to bad with a good ssd.
That being said his should all be very basic functionality so why do I have to do this manually. This shit is why people buy Macs.
There's also room for distros to improve here. The installer can probe the CPU and see if S3 is supported, if so it can use deep sleep automatically. Why do I have to mess with Kernal arguments?
Similar for hibernate, why doesn't the installer just have a check box that sets up the hibernate file/partition?
Ubuntu 18.04 - Dell XPS13 9370 no longer suspends on lid close
Ask Ubuntuconst_void
in reply to Jure Repinc • • •leopold
Unknown parent • • •OpFARv30
in reply to Jure Repinc • • •Yo, setup hibernation and use hybrid sleep as your default sleep.
ln -s /etc/systemd/system/suspend.target ../../../usr/lib/systemd/system/suspend-then-hibernate.targetNow any sleep is hybrid. The machine suspends, then wakes up after a timeout, and enters hibernation. The timeout is configurable in
systemd-sleep.conf(5).With this combo I find that I prefer S0 to S3. S0 drains the battery about twice as fast, sure, but it resumes instantaneously, while S3 takes about 30 seconds (!) to resume on this machine. And the thing hibernates and powers off if I leave it for an hour anyway.
Lem453
in reply to leopold • • •100% this. Sleep on Linux is perfect in my older XPS (after I manually enable it). Lots of reports of it not working on newer laptops.
While I agree it doesn't have to be a walled garden, you do have to admit that apple wouldn't ship a laptop that couldn't sleep properly. They are so much better at real world design than other manufacturers who were happy to abandon s3 in favour of making laptops into phones as if anyone actually wanted that.
The Doctor
in reply to Lem453 • • •Fonzie!
in reply to The Doctor • • •