mastodon - Link to source

So here’s the thing. My entire life is on Proton: email, calendar, documents, VPN, all my passwords, all my ID, all my important data.

My annual subscription is up at the end of January.

If they don’t oust Andy Yen by then, I’m out. The question is where?

Infomaniak seems to offer most of what Proton does but they also use AI.

What other options are there? I’m seeing people suggesting email alternatives. But I need a whole lot more than that.

#AskFedi #cybersecurity

#askfedi #Cybersecurity
in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

Alexa Devreux-Swift

Currently I use:

Tuta and Murena for email
NextCloud for cloud and calendar
Privamatic and Tor VPN for hardening and VPN
NextCloud for Passwords

As an FYI Murena actually uses NextCloud, which enable you to have all your documents, passwords, email, photos, calendar in one place and accessible via NextCloud apps and with a free tier available as well.

@protonprivacy

@Proton
in reply to Carlos (명준)

mastodon - Link to source

Alexa Devreux-Swift

@iscarlosmolero

I am aware that they are looking into the feasibility of using LLM for code development, but as of now all code is written by humans.

I am awaiting am answer from them for confirmation on their plans. If they go full sloptastic crap like Proton and others, I will ditch them.

@Tutanota
@clacksee @protonprivacy

#Tuta

#tuta @Tuta @Shouty person @Proton @Carlos (명준)
in reply to Tuta

mastodon - Link to source

Gabriel Markley

@Tutanota @iscarlosmolero @alexadeswift Your reply in this thread is 100% better then the silence from @protonprivacy I am sure there is a path forward for all smost will not get 100% of what they want. But the common thread seems to be 100% on security where possible and be a human. Don't enshitify. Don't fall to AI FOMO do what's right for the long run. Good luck. I am watching with an open mind to see how this plays out. To all the others here. Ownt he domain seems number 1. I know this weekend I will be setting up the family slop domain lol.
@Tuta @Alexa Devreux-Swift @Proton @Carlos (명준)
in reply to Tuta

mastodon - Link to source

Alexa Devreux-Swift

@Tutanota

There will be something left:

Snail Mail and Dumb Phones. I already have one of the latter at home. It can make voice calls. It can receive voice calls. It can ring a bell when somebody calls me and that is IT.

But I will never again engage with AI as it has left me feeling physically sick and badly depressed. I hope I do not have to increase medication to overcome this.

@iscarlosmolero

@Tuta @Carlos (명준)
in reply to Shouty person

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Tio

If you want passwords, calendar, documents, up to 20GB of storage, and more you can use our trade-free Nextcoud at files.trom.tf . We run several such services no strings attached, purely free. We were floating the idea to provide trom.tf email accounts as well but I am afraid people may abuse that service. As for VPN we use RiseUpVPN tromjaro.com/riseupvpn/ for our TROMjaro Linux Distro tromjaro.com/

I hope it helps you!

trom

2021-09-02 15:36:15

ActivityPub - Link to source

The trade-free app of the day:

RiseupVPN

Riseup offers Personal VPN service for censorship circumvention, location anonymization and traffic encryption. To make this possible, it sends all your internet traffic through an encrypted connection to riseup.net, where it then goes out onto the public internet.

More here:

tromjaro.com/riseupvpn/


RiseupVPN

TROM-Jaro

cyplo reshared this.

in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

Paul - Antifa. LGBTQ+ safe.

I would consider nextcloud. I use that for calendar, files, photos, the works. I exported Proton Pass to a zip (json file) and imported that JSON file into keepassxc (works perfectly, including TOTP/MFA), and that KeepassXC file is synced via Nextcloud too. For iphone I recommend keepassium to access that file.

VPN: ExpressVPN (which I use) or IVPN (heard about that last week).

I don't know if that would cover everything except email (you have lots of suggestions for that).

in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

Mike Spencer

I started using proton about five years ago. I was tempted by their password manager, etc., but then got nervous about all eggs in one basket.

Mailbox and runbox are my shortlist. Passwords are covered by keepassxc, need to pick a VPN. Bit of a deadline, my account renews next week...

in reply to Mike Spencer

littlefedi - Link to source

flo

@mikerspencer@mastodon.scot @clacksee@wandering.shop
Just checked runbox, as I'm not sure if I ever heard about them before.
They have a great comparison table on their website:
runbox.com/blog/2026/09/how-ru…

#runbox #EMail

Runbox vs Proton, Tuta, Fastmail, Posteo & Mailbox

How Runbox compares to privacy-focused email providers Proton, Tuta, Fastmail, Posteo, and Mailbox — an honest look at jurisdiction, encryption, and AI use.
Andersen (Runbox - Sustainable, Private & Secure Email — Made in Norway)
in reply to 🦕 Justus ☠️ Tóth 🏁 Römeth

mastodon - Link to source

Tuta

@Squig @quixoticgeek Sounds good, Tuta now also comes with a Nextcloud integration: tuta.com/blog/tuta-app-on-next…

The Tuta app has landed in the Nextcloud App Store! | Tuta

Tuta now comes with an app for Nextcloud & has built a Tuta plugin for seamless integration into Nextcloud. Thus, you can use Nextcloud and Tuta together - and the best: it's all free and 100% European!
Tuta
@🦕 Justus ☠️ Tóth 🏁 Römeth @Quixoticgeek
in reply to Tuta

mastodon - Link to source

Kylferr

@Tutanota @Squig @quixoticgeek Nextcloud was one item of discussion. But that’s not the over arching issue.

There are two glaring issues OP started this discussion with.

1. We don’t want to see employees treated poorly.
2. We don’t want any AI code.

Don’t district with comments on secondary topics.

Be better than your competitors Tuta. Be the email provider we’re looking for.

@Tuta @🦕 Justus ☠️ Tóth 🏁 Römeth @Quixoticgeek
in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

Daniel

@xtaldave In addition to some other email provider, get one of these: nextcloud.com/providers/

Should pretty much set you up with all a person needs.

Nextcloud providers - Nextcloud

Choose from a wide range of qualified Nextcloud providers for reliable and secure services covering managed hosting, self-hosting, and more.
Jos Poortvliet (Nextcloud)
@xtaldave
in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

Μᾶρκος

I hear you. The whole Andy Yen / AI situation is exactly why I'm also pulling out of Proton. A company that built its reputation on privacy and security, now reportedly pushing AI-generated code and mocking employees who wanted to pentest it first — that's a betrayal of everything it stood for.
in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

Μᾶρκος

For the email + calendar side, Tuta (formerly Tutanota, German, open-source) is solid: end-to-end encrypted email, calendar, and contacts, all encrypted by default. If you want something broader with a drive too, Infomaniak kSuite is a Swiss alternative — email, calendar, drive, contacts, videoconferencing.
in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

Μᾶρκος

You can pay in cash at a post office (up to €20 per transaction), by bank transfer, or by card. They offer email, calendar, and contacts, all encryptable if you want (PGP/S-MIME). No native app, but you can pair it with K-9 Mail, Thunderbird, or Evolution without any issues. Ad-free, no tracking, powered by green energy.
in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

Μᾶρκος

For passwords and 2FA, I've moved entirely to KeePass (KeePassXC on desktop, KeePassDX on mobile). It handles both passwords and TOTP codes, so I dropped Aegis. I run GrapheneOS on my phone, though it works just as well on stock Android. Vaults are synced locally between my PC and tablet — no cloud dependency. If I make changes while out, everything syncs back when I'm home. Fully local, fully in my control.
in reply to varjolintu

mastodon - Link to source

Cassandrich

@varjolintu Since you didn't cite the CVE IDs I can't check what you're talking about, but CVE-2026-118673 looks like bs. AFAICT it's "user can exploit themselves".

This is exactly what I mean by slop CVEs. Bugs that are *of the form* of a vuln (memory corruption, UAF, etc.) but where there is not any (or at least not any significant) crossing of privilege domains that make it attack surface.

@varjolintu
in reply to Cassandrich

mastodon - Link to source

Janek Bevendorff

@dalias @varjolintu That's a pretty lazy / irresponsible approach to maintaining secure systems. You don't need an RCE to warrant a patch or CVE number. The fixed vulnerabilities are listed in the release blog post. keepassxc.org/blog/2026-10-21-…

KeePassXC 2.8.0 (Stable) released – KeePassXC

KeePassXC Password Manager
keepassxc.org
@varjolintu @Cassandrich
in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

Matt Vestengen-Cox

If you’re looking for #CloudStorage as part of that, then I recommend my employer, #Jottacloud: jottacloud.com/en/

Secure cloud storage and backup from Norway | Jottacloud

Smart, secure cloud storage you can trust. Back up files and photos on 100% renewable energy in Norway, protected by strict European privacy laws. Start free.
English
#CloudStorage #jottacloud
in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

JWcph, Radicalized By Decency

Get out. Now. Don't wait & see. Remember, OpenAI fired Sam Altman - fat lot of good that did. Just getting rid of Yen won't change the culture he represents & if it wasn't inherent, we wouldn't have to ask them; he'd have been fired long ago.

Changing such a culture is something a business has to prove & that's not going to happen before your next payment.

in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

Glen T

I use Fastmail. They're not popular with the leet because they exist in major jurisdictions rather than do cross-jurisdiction games to avoid legislation. But they do solid email, calendaring, DNS and some file access (which in turn allows KeepPassXC to be layered on for passwords). They charge money, which I am a little keen on, as then it's clear how they are funded.

Best administration experience of any email provider I have used. Migration, user accounts, client configuration, it's all slick. I particularly like its use of each platform's native client, rather than an cross-platform app, which never really integrates very well.

It's not e2e, but frankly GPG plugins exist.

This entry was edited (Saturday, October 31, 2026, 9:43 AM)
in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

noodle

I'll be migrating off over the next couple of years (I have credit in addition to subscription). My first steps will be to move email to domains I control to keep future switching costs low (not self hosting, just using my own domain), and trying iVPN.

Thankfully my migration to Drive stopped when I realised their Linux client was vapourware.

in reply to noodle

mastodon - Link to source

Shouty person

@noodle
Yeah, you raise an interesting point. I have two main email addresses. Both are currently Proton on the back end, but one is on my domain. The other is a proton-branded email. I think I might start using a personal domain so that when I have to switch in future, it’s less of a hassle.
@noodle
in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

crookedcuc

They don't say don't put all of your eggs into one basket for no reason. Unfortunately, this will also mean more work and less integration between services.

Start with small stuff like password managers, since moving everything at once will be overwhelming.

Email -> Posteo (with Thunderbird)
VPN -> iVPN
Password manager -> Bitwarden or KeePassXC

Not sure about the rest, but I found privacyguides.org/en/tools/ to be a great resource.

Ad-Free Privacy Tool/Service Recommendations - Privacy Guides

A complete list of the privacy tools, services, software, and hardware recommended by the Privacy Guides community.
Privacy Guides
This entry was edited (Saturday, October 31, 2026, 10:45 AM)
in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

Mark Isherwood

in case you haven't seen already. You can submit a cancellation (and reason) while you've got an active subscription and you'll retain your current status until your renewal date. Just cancelled mine (finishes in April) while I look for alternatives. Wanted to ensure they saw the cancellation and reason immediately.
in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

Iris Young (he/they/she) (PhD)

A while ago I compiled a list of options for "de-Googling", annotated with what stuff they offer: docs.google.com/document/d/1O3… Perhaps that is also useful for you?

Also really like AlternativeTo for this purpose.

Comparison of Google collab suite replacements

Collaboration platforms as candidate replacements for Google suite Collabora free online version: Collabora Online Development Edition (CODE), for home use and small teams, self-hosted full desktop version: Collabora Office full online version (hoste…
Google Docs
in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

Tara L. Campbell

I've used Bitwarden for password management for years and really like it. The family share option is super helpful with my kids (while they were teens and now as adults).

My subscription is up in March. I too hope @protonprivacy removes Yen from all parts of the organization (company and board). I'm not one to put convenience before principles. I dropped FB/IG/Whatsapp and then Twitter many years ago and haven't been tempted back since.

Tech folks who made #proton what it is today, we're resilient and determined to an inordinate degree.

#proton @Proton
in reply to Tara L. Campbell

mastodon - Link to source

nokke

@CampbellTaraL
> I've used Bitwarden for password management for years and really like it.

FYI, earlier this year they hired an acquisitions specialist CEO, raised prices. About two weeks ago they announced going forward the client code is commercial (no longer open source) licensed.

I recommend putting Bitwarden on your shortlist, the enshittification has already landed.

@Tara L. Campbell
in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

nokke

Regarding email/contacts/calendar, I have been more than satisfied running my own domain name with Fastmail for about 8 years now.

The whole "super private email" is snake oil to me - all my email is interacting with businesses (friends now use chat apps).

My life choice: use different services for each need. Hearing chatter about xeovo.com for VPN. Using Keepass for p/w now. LibreOffice for docs. I suggest not moving all your eggs from one basket to another, spread it out.

in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

Meznor

for documents I've been using LibreOffice, but I do have a lot of documents that are Proton native, too. I'm in the same situation.

I'm going to slowly transition to my own domain for email and use a provider like zoho, and move documents to LibreOffice, back them up to a personal server/personal cloud device.

Apparently LibreOffice has an online version now too?? (I just searched this lol) marketing.libreoffice.org/down…

LibreOffice Online | LibreOffice - Free and private office suite - Based on OpenOffice - Compatible with Microsoft

marketing.libreoffice.org
in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

Dźwiedziu

circumstances.run/@davidgerard…

TL;DR: Tuta is slop-curious, Fastmail is an union-buster.

David Gerard

2026-10-30 22:57:49

mastodon - Link to source

Proton Mail goes full AI slop, Tuta starts going slop

Your meal is 99% not sewage!

youtube.com/watch?v=vP8Q-jlN4e… - video
pivottoai.libsyn.com/20261030-… - podcast

time: 11 min 50 sec

pivot-to-ai.com/2026/10/30/pro… - blog post

hand putting paper into a shredder labeled with an "@" sign

Pivot to AI: 20261030 - Proton Mail goes full AI slop, Tuta starts going AI slop

Your meal is 99% not sewage!  - blog post  Patreon: Ko-Fi: Buy us nice useful things (if not in the UK, set your own delivery postcode to SW1A 0AA): Get an extremely cool Pivot to AI shirt or mug: Send in your story tips and non-slop sponsorsh…
Pivot to AI (Libsyn)

in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

Ani Keaten

personally, I chose not to go with one provider of a whole suite again when I left Google. I use Tuta for email, Ente for two factor, Bitwarden for password manager, Pcloud for drive, and obsidian for calendar, cryptpad or libre office for documents and doc sharing. I also used and loved Cryptee for photos and documents but I decided I didn't need cloud for those for the most part. Everything I use I can pull the plug anytime because I have an offline backup.
in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

Sebastian

I’ve gone with a generic hosting that happens to provide mail account with *DAV support. With a personal domain, that’s for personal e-mail, blog, kids mails.

For calendar, passwords and other stuff, I’m an unfortunate sucker for Apple’s walled garden with a tether of 2TB of data in their cloud…🫣

For VPN I just use some good old port forwarding on my router + Wireguard, but I use it for the sole purpose of commanding Transmission to download new Linux ISOs.

in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

argonaut

fastmail believes in ai: fastmail.com/blog/the-future-o…

not using it but many with similar needs as yours recommend tuta, and it has a bunch of the services—mail, calendar, drive—you look for: tuta.com

The future of email

As AI starts reading and actioning our inboxes, email authentication becomes the trust layer that the future of email depends on.
Fastmail
in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

Gerard Cunningham ✒️

Tuta does mail, calendar and drive (in beta).
Bitwarden offers an EU server option for passwords, and there are several EU based options (see below).
Libreoffice and Collabra for docs.
Some VPN (and other) options here: europealternative.com/category…
europeanpurpose.com/alternativ…
etc

Though at the end of the day, bros will be bros, even if EU based, so be prepared to migrate regularly..

Edit: Collabra is AI-infected

7+ Best European VPN & Privacy Alternatives in 2026

Discover the 7 best European vpn & privacy alternatives in 2026. Privacy-focused, GDPR-compliant solutions made in Europe.
EU Alternatives
This entry was edited (Saturday, October 31, 2026, 8:53 PM)
in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

Bytebro 🇬🇧 🇺🇦 🌈

It's a question lots of people are asking.

I was saying last night that I *nearly* signed up with Proton, and was pleased with myself that I instead chose Tuta. Just in time for Tuta to drink the AI KoolAid 😠 So I now need to ditch them and find something else.

If all else fails, I could self-host a mail server but that's more work than I'm looking for!

in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

Reay

@lisamelton When I left Proton a while back I ultimately ended up at mailbox.org. The only downside I’ve found so far is that they don’t have a native app, and they informed me they aren’t planing on making one, so if you’re using email on your phone, you’ll want some flavour of email client.
@Lisa Melton
in reply to Shouty person

glitchsoc - Link to source

MJ

I had to make the same decision you're at, but I made it a bit earlier.

My stack includes:

Tuta mail, calendar (tuta.com/)
CryptPad Online Office Suite (cryptpad.fr)
1Password (1password.com/)
Tailscale for VPN (tailscale.com/)
Jitsi for video conferences (jitsi.org/)

Then locally:

LibreOffice for the full office suite
Pandoc, Ghostscript, LaTeX for finalizing documents/manuscripts

Hope it gives you some ideas. YMMV. No Cash Value.

Tuta: Turn ON privacy for free with secure emails, calendars & contacts | Tuta

Tuta guarantees your data stays private for free & without ads. Quantum-resistant encryption makes Tuta the best secure technology solution to protect your privacy.
Tuta
in reply to Shouty person

mastodon - Link to source

Frantic 🇬🇧 + 🇪🇺

I started using Fastmail several years back and have found them reliable but they only do Email, Address Book and Calendar.

Earlier this year I bought an e/OS phone from Fairphone. The maker of e/OS is Murena and they offer a bunch of apps/services. My 128GB storage plan costs €60 annually, 1TB would be €130.00. I have not made full use of their apps yet but those I have used are adequate for my use so far.
Full info at murena.com/

Screenshot of my Murena workspace showing the following applications they offer. Email, Calendar, Contacts, Gallery, Files, Murena Vault, Document, Spreadsheet, Presentation, Notes, Tasks, Murena Smartphones, Murena Search, Meet, Activity, Deck, Bookmarks, Forms, GitLab, Donate, Carnet, Cookbook, Passwords, Sign, News.

Murena: Smartphones, Tablets, Cloud & Online Workspace that respect your privacy

Smartphones, tablets, cloud storage, workspace with office suite & mobile device management (MDM) – intuitive, privacy-friendly, and sustainable. For individuals and businesses.
Murena - deGoogled phones and services
⇧