it seems their playbook will be pretending like all the evidence we see from Palestinians is fake and all the evidence from Israelis is real, even though it's laughably more towards the opposite to anyone with an internet connection. Manufactured consent for the modern era.

in reply to Aral Balkan

Tio

in reply to Aral Balkan 2 years ago

To be fair, putting aside the terrible wars happening, no one can live on this planet without trading.... you can't be a good human being, do good thing, and survive. You have no access to food, water, shelter and the necessities of life... This is terrible.

in reply to Tio

Aral Balkan

in reply to Tio 2 years ago

@tio True.

@Tio

in reply to Tio

Timo Tiuraniemi

in reply to Tio 2 years ago

@tio
I don't believe this is true.

We are heterotrophs and need to consume other life to survive. However, that doesn't mean we must consume more than what nature can regenerate. There are hundreds of millions of people living in harmony with nature, doing good things, right now.

In fact, we can also feed 10 billion people sustainably:

unep.org/news-and-stories/stor…

The problem ofc is that our societies, especially in the Global North, actively prevent this.

Let's change them.

How to feed 10 billion people

Food is tricky business. Worldwide, more than 10 per cent of people are hungry, roughly 25 per cent are overweight or obese, and another 25 per cent–who may also be either underfed or overfed–are micronutrient deficient.

^{United Nations Environment Programme}

@Tio

in reply to Timo Tiuraniemi

Aral Balkan

in reply to Timo Tiuraniemi 2 years ago

@ttiurani @tio You’re both arguing the same point :) (@tio was criticising the way things are today; his work is entirely based on creating alternatives to the status quo he described)

@Tio @Timo Tiuraniemi

Tio likes this.

in reply to Timo Tiuraniemi

Tio

in reply to Timo Tiuraniemi 2 years ago

Maybe you misread or misunderstood. For one we need to consume food. That can be plants or animals. Nutrients. Second, show me in what society humans can simply have a life (access to their basic needs) without trading (having a job, making a business, etc.).

in reply to Tio

Timo Tiuraniemi

in reply to Tio 2 years ago

I probably misunderstood, but replied to this:

"no one can live on this planet without trading.... you can't be a good human being, do good thing, and survive."

which I understand to argue that no one on the planet can be a good human being and survive at the same time?

There are both (indigenous) people living directly off the land, and people within societies consuming very little, but still enough to not only survive but also have a good life.

So "no one" is not true.

This entry was edited (2 years ago)

in reply to Timo Tiuraniemi

Aral Balkan

in reply to Timo Tiuraniemi 2 years ago

@ttiurani @tio He means in our so-called modern societies. As in you can’t in London or New York or whatever city or town you or I live in and that we should try and change that.

@Tio @Timo Tiuraniemi

Tio likes this.

in reply to Aral Balkan

Timo Tiuraniemi

in reply to Aral Balkan 2 years ago

@tio

I did understand the context, and I know I'm probably unfair here. Don't mean to argue with anyone, and could've just made this a separate point and not a reply.

The reason for my drive-by comment, is that I think it's really important to draw attention to how wildly different human experiences are, when there is talk about what "people" or "humans" or "planet" are. I believe doing this can unlock a lot of imagination.

Don't know if I succeeded in any of that here though.

@Tio

in reply to Timo Tiuraniemi

Tio

in reply to Timo Tiuraniemi 2 years ago

I see. Sure I should have said that pretty much no one. The people you are talking about are a very tiny minority. What I mean is that being a good human being is not enough in our "modern" society. There are no programs in place to help people have a life. Like the declaration of Human Rights says “Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.”

I spent the last 15 years of my life creating a lot of "things", from books to documentaries or online free services for everyone. All scientific and educational. And I never traded them. Meaning I made no profit. I want to do good things and help people, get myself informed about how the world works, etc.. And I cannot survive in this world unless random people from around the globe support me financially. And that's a core issue within our global society, that people cannot have a life without being forced to do something in return or engage into this trade society.

in reply to Tio

Timo Tiuraniemi

in reply to Tio 2 years ago

I very much agree with your point. I read too much essentialism in your comment, not knowing the background.

While (I think) there is no research on how many people within countries are currently able to have a good life without consuming more than nature can regenerate, I don't think "very tiny minority" is accurate.

From the little I know, a sustainable level is surprisingly high and achievable almost everywhere with policy changes.

This entry was edited (2 years ago)

in reply to Tio

firefly

in reply to Tio 2 years ago

@tio@social.trom.tf @aral@mastodon.ar.al @ttiurani@fosstodon.org

Simply abolish the homestead real estate tax and employee wages and the whole system of forced economics and inflationary pricing will collapse. Every other solution is band-aids on a sucking chest wound.

@Tio @Aral Balkan @Timo Tiuraniemi

in reply to Timo Tiuraniemi

firefly

in reply to Timo Tiuraniemi 2 years ago

@tio@social.trom.tf @aral@mastodon.ar.al

"A good life" is judged by whose standards?

Man is not the measuring stick for what is good. Man is inherently evil, and his idea of "goodness" is always self-serving and deceptive. When any other man tries to tell me what is "good" I ignore him with vigor. It doesn't matter if it is a priest or humanitarian or a prince. No man can decide what is good for another.

"I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts ... And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them ..."

@Tio @Aral Balkan

in reply to firefly

Timo Tiuraniemi

in reply to firefly 2 years ago

@firefly @tio
What the necessary material conditions for good life are, should IMO be democratically decided. And as far as planetary limits are not transgressed – which means actively harming other people's possibility for a good life – there is no need to define the meaning of a good life for anyone else.

FYI: there are efforts to find the lower limits for these material conditions, like decent living standards:

link.springer.com/article/10.1…

Decent Living Standards: Material Prerequisites for Human Wellbeing - Social Indicators Research

We define a set of universal, irreducible and essential set of material conditions for achieving basic human wellbeing, along with indicators and quantitative thresholds, which can be operationalized for societies based on local customs and preferenc…

^SpringerLink

@Tio @firefly

in reply to Tio

firefly

in reply to Tio 2 years ago

@tio@social.trom.tf @aral@mastodon.ar.al @ttiurani@fosstodon.org

Man is not designed to live independently. Mankind is a distributed organism. Our souls are organs within a larger soul. One organ dies and another takes its place. Nothing can change that.

@Tio @Aral Balkan @Timo Tiuraniemi

in reply to Timo Tiuraniemi

firefly

in reply to Timo Tiuraniemi 2 years ago

@tio@social.trom.tf @aral@mastodon.ar.al

Technically man does not consume other life to survive. A cow is dead before a man eats it.

@Tio @Aral Balkan

in reply to Tio

firefly

in reply to Tio 2 years ago

@aral@mastodon.ar.al

Welcome to mortality. It is what it is and until death is swallowed up in life that is how it will continue. If we try to preach morality we will only generate proselytes for a more decorative form of hell. We must cut through to the heart of the matter: man worships himself, and this is the cause of his problems. Man fancies his own ideas and things more than the spiritual reality of the conscience.

If a nation is not in awe of the true God who gave us human and national consciousness then man will play god and warp everything into corruption. There is no peace without the love of the Almighty. Morality without the Spirit is in insult, not an improvement. Every clever form of morality from Christianism to Humanism all denies the fundamental reality that we are powerless to save our own lives. So why is that the main focus of most men? Why do the rich and powerful strive to do what is clearly impossible at the expense of everyone else?

@Aral Balkan

in reply to Aral Balkan

GunChleoc

in reply to Aral Balkan 2 years ago

And except Armenians, Afghans, any PoC in a small boat on the Mediterranean or arriving in the UK, and anybody else I forgot to mention...

in reply to GunChleoc

Aral Balkan

in reply to GunChleoc 2 years ago

@gunchleoc … the Kurds, you forgot the Kurds.

@GunChleoc

in reply to Aral Balkan

firefly

in reply to Aral Balkan 2 years ago

There is nothing new here. It's just that millions are seeing it with new eyes.

"Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy."

"For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known."

"Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops."

The Internet is one big block of housetops.

#hypocrisy #religion #israel #palestine #gaza #genocide #imperialism

in reply to Aral Balkan

Martin Schröder 🇺🇳

in reply to Aral Balkan 2 years ago

#FreeGazaFromHamas

in reply to Martin Schröder 🇺🇳

Aral Balkan

in reply to Martin Schröder 🇺🇳 2 years ago

@oneiros #ByCommittingGenocide

#bycommittinggenocide @Martin Schröder 🇺🇳

in reply to Aral Balkan

Rage Rumbles 🏴‍☠️🫂 🔞

in reply to Aral Balkan 2 years ago

Incidentally, that declaration was written post World War 2 by a committee headed by the wife of a US president. But all its stipulations were deliberately made legally non-binding. So that universal declaration is essentially a memorial to international political hypocrisy.

Unknown parent

Aral Balkan

Unknown parent 2 years ago

@2_beers Oh, is that what all Palestinians think? Gee, I wonder if there’s a word for tarnishing an entire people with the same brush?… When it is done to Jews, we call it antisemitism.

in reply to Aral Balkan

G3rn0ti

in reply to Aral Balkan 2 years ago

And what about the right to life, liberty and security of the people Hamas took hostage, raped or killed? Perhaps you should direct your concerns towards Hamas and their Palestianian supporters, too.

in reply to G3rn0ti

Aral Balkan

in reply to G3rn0ti 2 years ago

@g3rn0ti mastodon.ar.al/@aral/111550845…

Aral Balkan

2023-12-09 14:06:55

@[url=https://muenchen.social/users/godot]Martin Jost[/url] @LALegault Yes, a bunch of Islamist barbarians murdered roughly 1,200 Israelis including ~859 civilians and took hostages.
In the time since, Israel has gone on a genocidal rampage in Gaza, murdering more than ten times the number of Palestinians (~17,000 currently), the vast majority of which are women and children.
Happy?
Now fuck off.

@G3rn0ti

⇧

Aral Balkan 2 years ago • •

Aral Balkan
2 years ago