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Startpage has recently announced thay they are going to require JavaScript for searches, which means that I will be removing them from Privacy Browser. I am leaning towards Monocles as the replacement default search engine, but I would be interested in any feedback or suggestions. https://redmine.stoutner.com/issues/722 contains further background and information about the three search engines I am considering.

Rokosun reshared this.

in reply to Soren Stoutner

Bob Mottram
Bob Mottram
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MetaGer?

https://metager.org
in reply to Bob Mottram

Soren Stoutner
Soren Stoutner
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Metager is already on the list. See https://redmine.stoutner.com/issues/722 which includes a link to the information about why it is unlikely to be the top choice replacement for Startpage.
Unknown parent

Soren Stoutner
Soren Stoutner
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Yes, Searx used to be the default search engine before Startpage. But instances kept being rate limited or going offline entirely. There is a bit of information about it at https://www.stoutner.com/switching-to-startpage-as-the-default-homepage-and-search-engine/

Monocles, which I am considering as a replacement, is a highly customized Searx instance. I have been in contact with Arne, who hosts it, to see if he has been able to mitigate the rate-limiting problem.
in reply to Soren Stoutner

herag
herag
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mojeek isn't bad. I haven't tried the others though. I'll give 'em a shot.
in reply to herag

Soren Stoutner
Soren Stoutner
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I have recorded some thoughts about Mojeek at https://redmine.stoutner.com/issues/577 . Based on those notes, I would be more inclined to select Mojeek than Metager.
in reply to sl1200

Soren Stoutner
Soren Stoutner
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YaCy is an interesting project. Are you aware of a public instance that produces good results?
in reply to Soren Stoutner

Buntbart
Buntbart
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Qwant?
https://lite.qwant.com
in reply to Buntbart

Soren Stoutner
Soren Stoutner
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Qwant is an interesting project. Their lite site used to be included in Privacy Browser, but it was removed because it didn’t work reliably. It would frequently return empty results. I just tested it, and it worked well for web results, but was intermittent for image results.

https://redmine.stoutner.com/issues/724
in reply to Soren Stoutner

Rokosun
Rokosun
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This seems like a good replacement for startpage - https://github.com/benbusby/whoogle-search
in reply to Rokosun

Soren Stoutner
Soren Stoutner
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Are you aware of a public instance that produces reliably good results that I can use as the default search engine in Privacy Browser?
in reply to Soren Stoutner

Rokosun
Rokosun
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https://whooglesearch.net looks good on privacy browser. Also you can find a list of instances on the github page I linked before.

Personally I use searx for most things, but I can see where something like whoogle could be useful - it makes the migration from google easy for people.

But again, all the reliability or rate limiting issues you said about searx could affect this one too sadly.
in reply to Rokosun

Soren Stoutner
Soren Stoutner
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I hadn’t heard of Whoogle before. It looks interesting, but I am unlikely to use a default search engine that has a curse word on the front page if there are other options, just as good, that don’t.
in reply to Soren Stoutner

Rokosun
Rokosun
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Ah, I understand. But the curse word is only present on that instance, there's a list of other instances on their github page.
in reply to Rokosun

Soren Stoutner
Soren Stoutner
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The section on public instances starts with this text, which confirms your suspicion about rate limiting.

“Note: Use public instances at your own discretion. Maintainers of Whoogle do not personally validate the integrity of these instances, and popular public instances are more likely to be rate-limited or blocked.”

https://github.com/benbusby/whoogle-search#public-instances
in reply to Soren Stoutner

Rokosun
Rokosun
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Yeah, basically any meta search engine could have this problem of rate limiting.

Its about finding good instances. There's a browser addon called "Privacy redirect" and the searx instances listed on it are usually good.

The one I use is https://tromland.org/searx but unfortunately they moved to a more customized instance https://search.trom.tf that isn't optimized for mobile screens. Don't know when they'll close the 1st one. Maybe @tio could give us more insight 🤔
@Tio
in reply to Rokosun

Tio
Tio
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Sorry about search.trom.tf not being very mobile friendly, I didn't have time to fix that. The tromland instance will close in a week or so when the domain expires.
in reply to Rokosun

Soren Stoutner
Soren Stoutner
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Getting results from other search engines is a fundamental design constraint that is likely to prevent a search engine from ever being the final answer. Some search engines, like Startpage, get around this by paying the other engines for their results, which provides them access without being rate limited. Others, like Mojeek, have their own index, which is probably the answer. But I have a concern about Mojeek described in the link in the original post.
Unknown parent

Soren Stoutner
Soren Stoutner
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JavaScript is a complete disqualification. See https://www.stoutner.com/requirements-for-a-search-engine-to-be-included/ Also see the section on JavaScript in the Guide inside Privacy Browser.
Unknown parent

Soren Stoutner
Soren Stoutner
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Because the vast majority of the tracking techniques that can follow you between devices and across IP addresses are based on JavaScript. Browsing the internet with JavaScript disabled is the default on Privacy Browser, and the default search engine for Privacy Browser needs to comply with that. There are far too many bad examples to mention here. Perhaps just one will suffice:

https://fosstodon.org/@privacybrowser/106229839924374604
Unknown parent

Soren Stoutner
Soren Stoutner
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Correct. There is no way to know if they are tracking you once JavaScript is enabled. Have you ever tried to read minified JavaScript?

Hence, once a site requires JavaScript, there is no longer any guarantee that they are not tracking you. The whole premise of Privacy Browser is to stop having to trust a website’s promise that they are not tracking you and instead use technical means to insure that it is not possible that they are invading your privacy.
Unknown parent

Rokosun
Rokosun
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FYI, privacy browser blocks JS, cookies, DOM storage etc. on all websites by DEFAULT. It has a little button on the top right corner for toggling JS temporarily.

Privacy browser is more focused on advanced users and even these default settings break most websites.
( of course you can change all these settings globally or per domain )

I agree that JS is not always bad, but for highly privacy focused browsers like this, it makes sense to block them.
@privacybrowser
@Soren Stoutner
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