“Growth” as a concept does not have to be viewed solely through the lens of Silicon Valley, venture capital firms, or capitalism in general. In the context of the network: some people here, myself included, want to see the network develop along enough to sufficiently challenge the status quo, and dethrone mainstream social networks.
For the #Fediverse to thrive, we inevitably have to bring in more people, new communities, and new ways of doing things. We need to build towards better concepts for user agency, privacy, and control. We need to also embrace the fun stuff that brought us here in the first place.
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Sean Tilley
in reply to Sean Tilley • • •A non-zero part of Mastodon’s user community has effectively modeled itself on a kind of social Puritanism that is super unfun to be around. It’s gotten so bad that it’s a meme at this point. Just imagine a stereotype of a stodgy librarian who tells you to CW your own lived experiences because they don’t want to see it, and you’re already halfway there.
There’s this wild idea that any kind of commerce or barter, any kind of exhange between hands that isn’t the most threadbare mutual aid, is forbidden and bad and going to make this place worse somehow. We’re a network predicated on GoFundMe’s and vast amounts of unpaid labor for hosting and moderation.
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Sean Tilley
in reply to Sean Tilley • • •I don’t know what else to say other than, shit’s kind of bad, and refusing to embrace any kind of positive motion to make things better in this aspect is awful. I’m not saying everybody has to pitch in, but some of the most toxic people I’ve come across on here barely lift a finger to do anything other than complain. And they just do that, for years and years.
In my headspace, I just imagine a bunch of pissed-off anarchists that all hate each other because they’re the wrong kind of anarchist, and they’re just content to sit back and complain and be miserable until this network rots into the ground.
To me, that fucking sucks, and I don’t want any part in it.
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Sean Tilley
in reply to Sean Tilley • • •Also, I’m sorry, I realize this probably scans as a lot more hostile than I actually intended.
I care about this place. A lot.
When I first came to Mastodon, the energy was so different. It felt like people were excited to meet total strangers, tell jokes together, share lived experiences. Now, I just feel sick from this unshakable hostility that sometimes emerges, this feeling that there’s just going to be more drama, most ostracizing, more lines being drawn, more vague unspoken rules.
We could build incredible things together and change the face of the Internet as we know it. We could bootstrap a social and technological commons for the good of the world, and make a better form of online communication that doesn’t have the pitfalls that hearken back to Ma Bell and CompuServe and Meta.
But we really need to chill the fuck out about a million and one things, come down from our fiefdoms, and be humans to one another again.
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Sean Tilley
in reply to Sean Tilley • • •m@thias.hellqui.st :verified-skull: likes this.
m@thias.hellqui.st :verified-skull:
in reply to Sean Tilley • • •J ☿ Webb
in reply to Sean Tilley • • •Sean Tilley
in reply to J ☿ Webb • • •m@thias.hellqui.st :verified-skull:
in reply to Sean Tilley • • •I also think some people love to “show” (others) how much and hard they care about a specific thing, in a vision (in their mind) that they are thoughtleaders within that topic. To impress people. It is more important to announce what they think (mostly what they are against, very rarely what they are “for”, or solutions to things) than the thoughts, or the words to convey those thoughts.
Also I find it ironic (or very sad) that many here (Fediverse) are here because we were fed up with someone else telling us what to do and how to do it (or else…), or that the tonality of other services turned really sour…so they are here and they do exactly those things.
If we block everything at first sight, without trying to work out if a person merely misspoke or if they truly are evil for not considering, or including, the very specific topic I “care” the most about in the whole world (at least today), we are creating and re-inforcing social media “bubbles” ourselves, all without an algorithm.
That might be fine f
... show moreI also think some people love to “show” (others) how much and hard they care about a specific thing, in a vision (in their mind) that they are thoughtleaders within that topic. To impress people. It is more important to announce what they think (mostly what they are against, very rarely what they are “for”, or solutions to things) than the thoughts, or the words to convey those thoughts.
Also I find it ironic (or very sad) that many here (Fediverse) are here because we were fed up with someone else telling us what to do and how to do it (or else…), or that the tonality of other services turned really sour…so they are here and they do exactly those things.
If we block everything at first sight, without trying to work out if a person merely misspoke or if they truly are evil for not considering, or including, the very specific topic I “care” the most about in the whole world (at least today), we are creating and re-inforcing social media “bubbles” ourselves, all without an algorithm.
That might be fine for some, but it doesn’t help building understanding of nuanced discussions where people are basically, mostly, agreeing on things, but instead hating everyone who doesn’t think exactly as I do.
Merely typing this post/reply will guaranteed lead to people unfollowing me, or even blocking me, this is a sensitive topic here.
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eshep
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Sean Tilley
in reply to eshep • • •@eshep I’ve been here for like 15 years. It ebbs and flows.
I think I might also be a bit of an edge-case. I report on the same spaces I participate in, all day, every day. It’s been really amazing, and there are still plenty of good days. But, reporting on developments sometimes involves sticking my head into dumpster fires and writing about it.
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eshep
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Bill Statler
in reply to Sean Tilley • • •But in some ways, this is the same old "don't feed the trolls" problem we've had since the days of Usenet and dial-up BBSes. You write:
In any rational Fediverse, these people would be ignored. It's a big help if your software provides tools to make this easy. I know you're familiar with Mike Macgirvin's work, especially Hubzilla and Streams, as examples.
There's a huge amount of energy and creativity in the Fediverse, but there's also a lot of people who joined Mastodon because they wanted "Twitter, but controlled by liberals" -- and a small fraction of them want to be the controllers. Mastodon makes it hard to ignore these trolls, and gives them more audience reach than they deserve.
The greatest thing about the Fediverse is that we have such an amazing variety of projects, with more new ideas coming every month. Maybe we'll "dethrone mainstream social networks". I doubt this. But maybe we'll
... show moreBut in some ways, this is the same old "don't feed the trolls" problem we've had since the days of Usenet and dial-up BBSes. You write:
In any rational Fediverse, these people would be ignored. It's a big help if your software provides tools to make this easy. I know you're familiar with Mike Macgirvin's work, especially Hubzilla and Streams, as examples.
There's a huge amount of energy and creativity in the Fediverse, but there's also a lot of people who joined Mastodon because they wanted "Twitter, but controlled by liberals" -- and a small fraction of them want to be the controllers. Mastodon makes it hard to ignore these trolls, and gives them more audience reach than they deserve.
The greatest thing about the Fediverse is that we have such an amazing variety of projects, with more new ideas coming every month. Maybe we'll "dethrone mainstream social networks". I doubt this. But maybe we'll invent different things that no mainstream social network has ever imagined. That's where our growth opportunity is.
Tim Chambers
in reply to Sean Tilley • • •