I've heard that youtube is removing the dislike count from showing and people are baffled by it. But I don't see the point of dislike buttons to be honest, not that I care about the youtube ad-platform. If you dislike something then say what you disliked about. If you like something is like "I agree with this thing". But disliking gives no one anything useful. Our obsession with counting and labeling is just insane. All documentaries I've watched so far, thousands of them, had no like/dislike buttons or counters. I read about them, watch them, and have my own opinion. Simple.
Even for our Friendica I disabled the dislike button for my profile because I find it to be a knee jerk reaction button. Maybe something akin to reddit may make more sense, vote up or down, and see the total count of it. So if you vote 100 times up and 80 times down, you get a score of 20.
In any case these counters are a result of our trade based society where we label online stuff for the purpose of trading it. Views and likes and engagements equal money or other currencies and such. Else views should make 0 sense, alongside likes and dislikes.
We have removed such things from our Peertube instance by default, so you don't know how many views, likes or dislikes a video has. It's much saner.
Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •Here's 2 videos I saw criticizing YouTube's decision:
youtube.com/watch?v=CaaJyRvvaq…
youtube.com/watch?v=cX62w2rb7H…
I know that the attention economy has given too much importance to these numbers, but I do think they have a point though. Usually people look at the like-dislike ratio on a video, so its similar to reddit in that way. Of course, the accuracy of this data depends on how many people have liked/disliked thr video and how the site deals with spam, which is an issue for sites like peertube.
Dear YouTube!
YouTubeRokosun
in reply to Rokosun • • •Even for things like documentaries, more scientific and fact based documentaries may have a better like to dislike ratio compared to blatantly wrong conspiracy ones.
And often times, the like/dislike ratio tells us more about the users of a platform than the quality of the content. For example, Peertube may have more engagement in tech videos because its built around that community. On that note, Without this info, how can I recognize if a video is underrated or not ?
Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •I've been doing the same thing for years, I never really looked at any of these numbers and have been just consuming the content YouTube recommends me, that was the only thing I used my account for, lol. This was before I got into privacy/FOSS, now I don't even use my google account :)
But just because I don't personally use this feature, doesn't mean its useless for everyone. For me its kind of a habit, I never really take a moment to look at these numbers, haha 😁
Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •like this
LPS and Rokosun like this.
Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •Rokosun
in reply to Rokosun • • •Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •Yah am not suggesting everyone who disagrees should make a video or leave a comment about that, but disliking it also makes no sense in my view.
Yah I get you but then why not simply ignore it? Or just dislike it and the peertube system should have an algorithm so it knows what you disliked in order to not show you those kinds of videos. But having a public counter how does it help and who does it help?
Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •> But having a public counter how does it help and who does it help?
Public counter is used to get a rough idea of the public opinion of a video. For example, if someone made a video with a misleading thumbnail, then that video would have a poor like-dislike ratio. If someone stumbles upon a nice video, how is he supposed to know that its underrated ? Without these counts, that info is hidden from them.
Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •> but misleading thumbnails are on pretty much all youtube videos, isnt it?
There are lot's of clickbaity videos on youtube, but if its just plain misleading then I assume people would dislike it a lot more. Because I don't take a look at these numbers myself, I'm not sure how people react to these nowadays, maybe they won't dislike it if the video is pretty good, IDK
Rokosun
in reply to Rokosun • • •> the public opinion can be ok at times, but in todays world i feel like it does more harm than good.
I know that likes/dislikes are not a good indication for the quality of the content, they just show you what the public thinks about it. That is the information it gives you, whether you agree with the public opinion is your choice. Perhaps my second question is more important here, without this data how would you know if a video is underrated or not ?
Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •Watch it! :) And you decide for yourself. :P
Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •If I watch a video and liked it very much, I'd assume its a popular video but it might be underrated, there's no way to know without the like/dislike or watch counts.
For example, take this video sasha did a while ago - videos.trom.tf/videos/watch/95…
Without any of these counts, I'd assume its a viral hit on peertube, based on just the quality of the content. But because I can see that this video only has 5 likes, I know this video is underrated and deserves more likes 😉
32. Prison Earth by Sasha
videos.trom.tfTio
in reply to Rokosun • •Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •Underrated means a video doesn't have the popularity it deserves.
It'll help me understand the situations better, I would've wrongly believed that one video is viral just by looking at the quality.
For example, Imagine if TROM was super popular and you were getting thousands of emails a day. Would you be able to read all those messages ? Would you be able to make TROMcasts public if hundreds of people would join and overload the server ? That's quite a difference from how things are now.
Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •Rokosun
in reply to Rokosun • • •Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •Idk if these "advantages" outweigh the dis-advantages of such labeling systems. If you are worried that you may want to contact a creator but they are too popular, and you may not know that, this is not as relevant I think. You should try to contact them regardless. Lots of nonpopular creators don't give a shit about replying to emails, and the opposite is also true.
As for judging if some videos are well received by looking at the like/dislike counter....dik...is that relevant? Is the platform where it was posted relevant? Like if we post the video about nudity on fb/youtube vs peertube, I guess the audience is different.
Chivo likes this.
Chivo doesn't like this.
Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •Idk if these "advantages" outweigh the dis-advantages of such labeling systems.
The disadvantages lie in how people interpret this data, the data itself is not to blame. If people understand the limitations of this data, then its fine I think.
Is the platform where it was posted relevant?
This is what I said before, people's reaction changes from platform to platform. Peertube seems to be more revolved around the tech community, so we'll be getting the data from them.
Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •Users should have the control, so if Peertube would allow me as user to disable/enable like/dislike buttons and view counts, then the admins should leave these options for the users. The reason I remove these from our Peertube is becuase users have no choice there. On Youtube they do have choices so I dont agree that youtube should decide for everyone and remove these options. Users should do that if they do not want to see such things on their videos or other videos.
However the dislike button makes no sense for me. It is a knee jerk reaction that tells nothing to the creator, and very little to the others.
Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •I think you have a point here.... 🤔
Even though I don't personally mind any of these like/dislike counts, I still don't agree with youtube taking them away. I think people are pissed because they're taking away something without giving users a choice, basically forcing it upon people.
Tio likes this.
Rokosun
in reply to Rokosun • • •The way I see it, if someone don't care about these numbers, they can just ignore it, like how I do it. But it doesn't work the other way around, if you remove the button, its gone forever. This is what youtube did.
Letting each individual choose whether they wanna hide it or not would be the best thing, maybe peertube can add that as an anti-addiction feature or something. We already have such features in many mastodon clients - github.com/tuskyapp/Tusky/issu…
[Feature Request] Digital wellbeing mode · Issue #1980 · tuskyapp/Tusky
GitHubTio
in reply to Rokosun • •Rokosun likes this.
Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •Watched both videos. I would like to give them a dislike :). This one especially talks about how to be a prostitute and consider what people like/dislike on your channel.
If people see their videos as "careers" and "trading tools" then I get their frustration in both sides of the argument. And that I do not care at all about. :P
Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •Even if you're not making content for trading/profit, you should still be open to criticisms and learn from these feedbacks, right ?
I'm not a content creator but AFAIK these feedbacks are helpful in improving the quality of the content. If I write a book, I'm doing it to share my ideas, and not caring about feedbacks would affect the quality of my content and I'll get less readers. This is fine, but if you're writing about something important, you want more people to read & know about it.
Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •That's why I recommend to remove the dislike button so you force people to give some useful feedback. A dislike tells you nothing.
Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •> That's why I recommend to remove the dislike button so you force people to give some useful feedback. A dislike tells you nothing.
Like I said, most people don't have the time to go around and criticize everything they see. Like/dislike button being a passive way of showing support/disagreement, more people will use it and the data will be more accurate. I think both comments and the like/dislike ratio is useful for getting feedbacks, they both compliment each other.
Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •Here's a comment below that video which I thought was interesting:
When you show only the likes, everything just becomes about popularity, rather than quality; and the loudest opinions win, even if the majority disagree
Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •