Thunderbird 115 is now available on Flathub!
It’s really the best Thunderbird has ever been, IMO, and it’s also the best method to install it for a lot of people (it’s an official Flatpak).
flathub.org/apps/org.mozilla.T…
Thunderbird | Flathub
Thunderbird is a free and open source email, newsfeed, chat, and calendaring clientFlathub
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thesaigoneer
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • • •chrishazfun
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • • •Simon :mastodon: (he/him)
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • • •A bit offtopic:
I have the issue with the #Betterbird flatpak, that drag'n'drop with attachements doesn't work.
Is it similar w/ #thunderbird #flatpak? And if: How could I solve it?
Thanks!
Nick @ The Linux Experiment
in reply to Simon :mastodon: (he/him) • • •@sihaha I haven’t encountered this, but sounds like the better bird Flatpak might not have correct permissions set (for example it might not have access to the directotriea you’re trying to drag the attachments from).
You might be able to fix this (if that’s indeed the problem) using Flatseal and giving Betterbird access to these directories
Ian
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • • •Surya Teja K
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • • •My gripe with Flatpaks is the fact they occupy a lot of disk space.
I am limited by disk space on my laptop and I cannot spare several gigs for one or two apps.
I prefer distro packages and AUR.
Nick @ The Linux Experiment
in reply to Surya Teja K • • •Surya Teja K
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • • •dylan (sunfish)
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • • •Nick @ The Linux Experiment
in reply to dylan (sunfish) • • •Andrew 📪🐾🥃🍺💻🐧🎯
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • • •I haven’t used Thunderbird for years - I’ve been alternating between evolution and kmail/kontact/akonadi because both (despite their faults) were superior to Thunderbird…
However…the latest version rolls that all back, I’m now back on Thunderbird. Set up multiple email accounts and calendars on one computer, exported and imported on multiple other computers, all set. Easy peasy.
Tonch
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • • •Vint Prox
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • • •lobokai 🌍 🇺🇦 🌳 🌲 🍃 🌿
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • • •I've used nothing but Thunderbird for many years, and certainly like it, but have had a few issues with it lately ... so this is excellent news! I'm on Fedora, so it's easy to get the Flatpak version.
Thanx
Mostly Linux
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • • •Nick @ The Linux Experiment
in reply to Mostly Linux • • •David Fleetwood - RG Admin
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • • •Mark Wieczorek
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • • •It is the best ever, but it is still unusable.
* threads are unusable, and don't include your replies.
* attachments are placed at the bottom of the screen, which are easy to miss if you use a large screen.
* no support for exporting/importing/synchronizing settings
* dark mode doesn't apply to the body of a message.
* setting up unified folders (for multiple accounts) is confusing.
* RSS feeds are included in the "Mail" tab.
:arch: XeroLinux :kdelight:
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • • •Loïc
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • • •Tio
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • •Well there are a few things that look a bit more polished, but not respecting the system's theme, not exporting the menu for HUD functionality, not using the system's native window decoration, Thunderbird is in the same boat as Gnome apps.
Not made for the Linux community, but made for themselves, enforcing whatever design decisions they want. And with some themes the corners look broken, and I tested hundreds of apps but Thunderbird is the only culprit so far.
How come functionality is not something we should be excited about?
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Nick @ The Linux Experiment
in reply to Tio • • •@tio It’s a cross platform app, there’s no way they can make it fot onto every desktop and OS. If they went with a GNOME style, KDE users would complain, if they went with Qt, GNOME users wouldn’t be happy.
I don’t hear many people complaining about web browsers not respecting these conventions, why should Thunderbird be judged differently?
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Tio
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • •I tested thousands of apps for our custom TROMjaro distro so I have some experience in regards to what apps support and what not. Most apps can be themed. Granted you sync the GTK and QT themes, and use a libadwaita fork aur.archlinux.org/packages/lib… . Because Gnome broke the theming. But this is entirely doable and something a bunch of distros have implemented.
That being said Thunderbird used to work in that environment. Now it does not. And yes browsers too should respect the system's theme. As they do on my system.
There are many reasons why respecting the window decorations and system's theme is necessary:
- Desktop Environments have their own custom features that allow for unique window-based-options. For example XFCE allows you to "roll up" a window into the top bar. Super useful for me while coding and inspecting elements of a webpage. Or moving the window buttons to a di
... show moreI tested thousands of apps for our custom TROMjaro distro so I have some experience in regards to what apps support and what not. Most apps can be themed. Granted you sync the GTK and QT themes, and use a libadwaita fork aur.archlinux.org/packages/lib… . Because Gnome broke the theming. But this is entirely doable and something a bunch of distros have implemented.
That being said Thunderbird used to work in that environment. Now it does not. And yes browsers too should respect the system's theme. As they do on my system.
There are many reasons why respecting the window decorations and system's theme is necessary:
For instance some distros allow you to enforce a border around windows or make the titlebar bigger, this is super useful for usability. Some themes are too dark or too white, being able to enforce a window border makes it easier to deal with windows that are stacked on top of each other.
And so on.
Should be a no brainer that apps have to respect the user and the system. We are going towards a Linux desktop that is very inconsistent and thus more difficult to use.
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Tio
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • •like this
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Nick @ The Linux Experiment
in reply to Tio • • •Tio
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • •like this
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Nick @ The Linux Experiment
in reply to Tio • • •Tio
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • •These are not advanced features, but basic features on most desktops.
To me it is sad to see Linux trending towards less customization and control in return for a simple and two tonne experience. Killing very useful features like system theming, HUD, system window decorations, and so forth. And for what?
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Nick @ The Linux Experiment
in reply to Tio • • •@tio For more streamlined applications that everyone can use and understand, better UX, more coherency, better APIs and stability, more dev control over what they ship and the quality of the packages…
Well worth it IMO. These are advanced features most people never use.
Tio
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • •You can have all that and still let the system hug your app with their own window manager. As for theming the app itself you can still have your built in theme like libreoffice, kdenlive, krita and the like have, while at the same time provide an option to allow the system to theme your app.
I don't see how these stay in the way of developing these apps. Maybe I do not know. However they create inconsistency with the rest of the ecosystem and impair the system's functionality.
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Nick @ The Linux Experiment
in reply to Tio • • •alteredEnvoy likes this.
Tio
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • •like this
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Nick @ The Linux Experiment
in reply to Tio • • •@tio GIMP and KDENLIVE are native Linux apps written using Linux first toolkits ;)
LibreOffice isn’t well integrated with any Linux desktop either ;)
Losing themes is fine if it means our apps get better and developers aren’t flooded with bug reports coming from bugs in the themes and not in the apps, at least IMO
Tio
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • •Thunderbird used to work well on Linux before this update. LibreOffice perfectly integrates on Linux, even exports the menus for HUD. There are lots of other examples, as I said I test thousands of apps. We have a library where I even make screenshots for the ones I post tromjaro.com/apps/ . Thunderbird perfectly integrated into the theming tromjaro.com/thunderbird/
"Losing themes is fine if it means" this is a big IF and a big question about the tradeoffs. Removing the ability of an app to support system theming, not working with HUD, or not allowing window decorations is terrible. These should be the most basic features all apps should provide, and the vast majority still do. Somehow these other ones can make them work like that.
And I do not understand why developers are flooded with bug reports about the theming that's coming from the system. They can easily close those issues and do not provide any support for that.
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Nick @ The Linux Experiment
in reply to Tio • • •@tio Closing issues still takes time to figure out the issue is theming related. Most users will just report something is broken and you’ll notice the issue when they finally upload a screenshot and you realize they use custom broken CSS that destroys your app.
Waste of time.
Tio
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • •You've just heard about this or is this something that happens a lot? I report so many issues with so many apps, I swear I almost never saw issues regarding the theming. Plus it is quite easy to make a git template and force users to select what you need from them. If they select theming, then you make sure they understand they should use the built in theme then report.
Came across many such templates before. Makes things very easy and manageable.
You can say the same about using different DEs, repos, and so forth. In that regards should we nuke those too, because users may face a bug with app X on DE Y? That's more of a challenge than theming.
Nick @ The Linux Experiment
in reply to Tio • • •Tio
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • •Nick @ The Linux Experiment
in reply to Tio • • •@tio That’s not enough. You still have to triage, to answer, to face criticism from users who don’t u detest and how things work, to close issues, to deal with the image or perception that your app is broken because you couldn’t fix the « bug », or the image of « not caring about users » because you don’t support their favorite theme.
It’s added work that isn’t necessary.
Tio
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • •I think that's exaggerating. You are also not paying attention to the points I make. You can say the exact same thing about package managers, DEs, wayland vs xorg, and so forth. This is not a new issue nor one that you cannot manage with github templates.
I think you are greatly exaggerating.
Nick @ The Linux Experiment
in reply to Tio • • •@tio I am not. Look at this: stopthemingmy.app/
I’m not making this up, or exaggerating. You just haven’t been confronted with the issue yourself. I also can’t answer every point you make as your character limit seems to be 3x mine, which makes conversations one sided ;)
I’ll stop there, we won’t agree on the subject. I just think you have unrealistic expectations for support of your particular config that is t the general case at all.
Please don’t theme our apps
stopthemingmy.appTio
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • •I am very familiar with that and I made a post about it forum.tromjaro.com/t/no-we-can…
You are talking about a handful of mostly Gnome app devs that use bad examples of bad theming implementations.
Linux is not Mac or Windows, and we are used to customize our distros and hopefully it will continue. Opposing that will proably not work and these Gnome approaches will only make things a bit worse for some DEs.
Anyway, I am all fine to stop here. I think I made my points clear :).
Mike Macgirvin
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • • •Nick @ The Linux Experiment
in reply to Mike Macgirvin • • •Mark doesn't like this.
Tio
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • •Are you serious Nick? Most users do not know that you can right click the topbar and move a window to a different workspace, or make it stay on top, and all that? How do you do those yourself?
Also, why should it matter if many users may not know about these? Most users do not use the terminal probably? Should we ditch that too?
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Nick @ The Linux Experiment
in reply to Tio • • •I never used the title bar to do this. None of my windows have titlebars anyway. You drag the window to a workspace. You open the workspace view or the activity switcher or whatever your desktop has, and you drag the window to the desktop you want it on.
The terminal is completely different and a bad analogy. It’s not a feature of a program or a specific WM, it’s a core part of the OS. Also, most Linux users use the terminal.
Tio
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • •If you use Gnome they do have, despite them clumping menus with the titlebar. Opening this, then that, drag a window, is fine, and many steps I'd argue. And some DE's may not support that. Plus setting up an app visibility or hierarchy compared to the rest, is not something you can drag and drop.
Use the TTY why the need for a terminal app!? ;)
Nick @ The Linux Experiment
in reply to Tio • • •@tio @mike Again, terrible analogy. No one is removing the terminal app. The terminal app is provided by the DE, as part of their core experience. It’s well integrated.
You can’t expect a third party cross platform app to bend over backwards to support every weird kink that doesn’t have an API attached to it.
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Tio
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • •Mark likes this.
Nick @ The Linux Experiment
in reply to Tio • • •@tio @mike The NBC omparison does’t make sense at all. One if an application, provided by the DE, as a core part of the experience.
The other is support for a feature that isn’t a standard, doesn’t have a common API on all Linux desktops, from an app that isn’t specifically made for any Linux desktop.
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Tio
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • •You said that titlebars is not something most people use, however you know that, and I said that's not a reason not to have this useful feature considering that still a large amount of people use it. I said that probably most Linux users do not use the terminal, so that wold not be a reason to remove it, being that it is just a graphical interface for your command line.
I hope you understand now the analogy. You can replace the Terminal with "workspaces" if you will. Maybe you'll get my point.
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Nick @ The Linux Experiment
in reply to Tio • • •@tio @mike I didn’t say titlebar aren’t used. I said people don’t right click them to move windows around ;)
And most Linux users DO use the terminal. I still don’t find the analogy pertinent here ;)
Tio
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • •Justin
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • • •lobokai 🌍 🇺🇦 🌳 🌲 🍃 🌿
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment • • •