mastodon - Link to source

Thunderbird 115 is now available on Flathub!

It’s really the best Thunderbird has ever been, IMO, and it’s also the best method to install it for a lot of people (it’s an official Flatpak).

flathub.org/apps/org.mozilla.T…

Thunderbird | Flathub

Thunderbird is a free and open source email, newsfeed, chat, and calendaring client
Flathub

Jim Donegan 🎵 ✅ reshared this.

in reply to Si (he/him)

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Nick @ The Linux Experiment

@sihaha I haven’t encountered this, but sounds like the better bird Flatpak might not have correct permissions set (for example it might not have access to the directotriea you’re trying to drag the attachments from).

You might be able to fix this (if that’s indeed the problem) using Flatseal and giving Betterbird access to these directories

@Si (he/him)
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment

mastodon - Link to source

Andrew 📪🐾🥃🍺💻🐧🎯

I haven’t used Thunderbird for years - I’ve been alternating between evolution and kmail/kontact/akonadi because both (despite their faults) were superior to Thunderbird…

However…the latest version rolls that all back, I’m now back on Thunderbird. Set up multiple email accounts and calendars on one computer, exported and imported on multiple other computers, all set. Easy peasy.

in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment

mastodon - Link to source

Mark Wieczorek

It is the best ever, but it is still unusable.

* threads are unusable, and don't include your replies.

* attachments are placed at the bottom of the screen, which are easy to miss if you use a large screen.

* no support for exporting/importing/synchronizing settings

* dark mode doesn't apply to the body of a message.

* setting up unified folders (for multiple accounts) is confusing.

* RSS feeds are included in the "Mail" tab.

in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Tio

Well there are a few things that look a bit more polished, but not respecting the system's theme, not exporting the menu for HUD functionality, not using the system's native window decoration, Thunderbird is in the same boat as Gnome apps.

Not made for the Linux community, but made for themselves, enforcing whatever design decisions they want. And with some themes the corners look broken, and I tested hundreds of apps but Thunderbird is the only culprit so far.


How come functionality is not something we should be excited about?

in reply to Tio

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Nick @ The Linux Experiment

@tio It’s a cross platform app, there’s no way they can make it fot onto every desktop and OS. If they went with a GNOME style, KDE users would complain, if they went with Qt, GNOME users wouldn’t be happy.

I don’t hear many people complaining about web browsers not respecting these conventions, why should Thunderbird be judged differently?

@Tio

Mark doesn't like this.

in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Tio

in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Tio

You can have all that and still let the system hug your app with their own window manager. As for theming the app itself you can still have your built in theme like libreoffice, kdenlive, krita and the like have, while at the same time provide an option to allow the system to theme your app.

I don't see how these stay in the way of developing these apps. Maybe I do not know. However they create inconsistency with the rest of the ecosystem and impair the system's functionality.

in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Tio

This is a trend that is happening for the past few years, with Gnome leading the way of now breaking the themes and window managers who are unable to draw the titlebar and borders around an app. Many applications are cross platform and yet they respect the system on Linux. Libreoffice, Kdenlive, Gimp, to name a few.
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Tio

Thunderbird used to work well on Linux before this update. LibreOffice perfectly integrates on Linux, even exports the menus for HUD. There are lots of other examples, as I said I test thousands of apps. We have a library where I even make screenshots for the ones I post tromjaro.com/apps/ . Thunderbird perfectly integrated into the theming tromjaro.com/thunderbird/

"Losing themes is fine if it means" this is a big IF and a big question about the tradeoffs. Removing the ability of an app to support system theming, not working with HUD, or not allowing window decorations is terrible. These should be the most basic features all apps should provide, and the vast majority still do. Somehow these other ones can make them work like that.

And I do not understand why developers are flooded with bug reports about the theming that's coming from the system. They can easily close those issues and do not provide any support for that.

in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Tio

You've just heard about this or is this something that happens a lot? I report so many issues with so many apps, I swear I almost never saw issues regarding the theming. Plus it is quite easy to make a git template and force users to select what you need from them. If they select theming, then you make sure they understand they should use the built in theme then report.

Came across many such templates before. Makes things very easy and manageable.

You can say the same about using different DEs, repos, and so forth. In that regards should we nuke those too, because users may face a bug with app X on DE Y? That's more of a challenge than theming.

in reply to Tio

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Nick @ The Linux Experiment

@tio That’s not enough. You still have to triage, to answer, to face criticism from users who don’t u detest and how things work, to close issues, to deal with the image or perception that your app is broken because you couldn’t fix the « bug », or the image of « not caring about users » because you don’t support their favorite theme.

It’s added work that isn’t necessary.

@Tio
in reply to Tio

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Nick @ The Linux Experiment

@tio I am not. Look at this: stopthemingmy.app/

I’m not making this up, or exaggerating. You just haven’t been confronted with the issue yourself. I also can’t answer every point you make as your character limit seems to be 3x mine, which makes conversations one sided ;)

I’ll stop there, we won’t agree on the subject. I just think you have unrealistic expectations for support of your particular config that is t the general case at all.

Please don’t theme our apps

An open letter from independent app developers to the wider GNOME community
stopthemingmy.app
@Tio
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Tio

I am very familiar with that and I made a post about it forum.tromjaro.com/t/no-we-can…

You are talking about a handful of mostly Gnome app devs that use bad examples of bad theming implementations.

Linux is not Mac or Windows, and we are used to customize our distros and hopefully it will continue. Opposing that will proably not work and these Gnome approaches will only make things a bit worse for some DEs.

Anyway, I am all fine to stop here. I think I made my points clear :).

in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Tio

Are you serious Nick? Most users do not know that you can right click the topbar and move a window to a different workspace, or make it stay on top, and all that? How do you do those yourself?

Also, why should it matter if many users may not know about these? Most users do not use the terminal probably? Should we ditch that too?

in reply to Tio

mastodon - Link to source

Nick @ The Linux Experiment

I never used the title bar to do this. None of my windows have titlebars anyway. You drag the window to a workspace. You open the workspace view or the activity switcher or whatever your desktop has, and you drag the window to the desktop you want it on.

The terminal is completely different and a bad analogy. It’s not a feature of a program or a specific WM, it’s a core part of the OS. Also, most Linux users use the terminal.

This entry was edited (2 years ago)
in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Tio

None of my windows have titlebars anyway.


If you use Gnome they do have, despite them clumping menus with the titlebar. Opening this, then that, drag a window, is fine, and many steps I'd argue. And some DE's may not support that. Plus setting up an app visibility or hierarchy compared to the rest, is not something you can drag and drop.

The terminal is completely different and a bad analogy. It’s not a feature of a program or a specific WM, it’s a core part of the OS. Also, most Linux users use the terminal.


Use the TTY why the need for a terminal app!? ;)

in reply to Nick @ The Linux Experiment

friendica (DFRN) - Link to source

Tio

You said that titlebars is not something most people use, however you know that, and I said that's not a reason not to have this useful feature considering that still a large amount of people use it. I said that probably most Linux users do not use the terminal, so that wold not be a reason to remove it, being that it is just a graphical interface for your command line.

I hope you understand now the analogy. You can replace the Terminal with "workspaces" if you will. Maybe you'll get my point.

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