If you want to onboard friends and family to the Fediverse, jointhefediverse.net is an amazing tool.
Made by @stefan, this site explains -- in easy-to-understand words -- what the Fediverse is, how it works, and what to try.
This is a must for everyone who wants to tell the world about the Fediverse!
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@GoldenRuleLover, do you see this as a quoted, shared, reposting?Also, what do you mean by "the various platforms"?
We really do need a quote tweet function and the first person to design a widget to cross post to the various platforms all at once will make a mint.
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anji, โ Yσษ ฦิσส โ, Soviet Snake, testman, rysiek, shadowtux, IngrownMink4, Subversivo, poVoq, ReverseBreeze, Muad'Dibber, _ed, Dessalines, ADHDefy, pssk, drop, wintermute, ray, Drstrange2love, uthredii, powdermilkman, altair222, eshep, smallcircles, rrg, Servais, Adda, [object Object], Camus, Euphoma, qubidt, Krusty, maegul (he/they), dan_the_man, shoomba, ThaNookLmao, ๐๐ง๐ง๐, eldrichhydralisk, Jacksachatter and yessikg like this.
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Vim-ify Your Firefox With Tridactyl
Today I talk about Tridactyl, my new favorite Firefox vim plugin.
๐ PULL IT DOWN FOR THE GOOD STUFF ๐
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The Website thelinuxcast.org
Contact us email@thelinuxcast.org
Amazon Wishlist - amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/1J3Wโฆ
Logo Courtesy of - pedropaulo.net
==== Special Thanks to Our Patrons! ====
thelinuxcast.org/patrons/
==== Referenced ====
github.com/tridactyl/tridactyl
==== Time Stamps ====
0:00 Intro
2:21 First Look
2:27 The Basic Movements
4:01 The UI
5:19 Follow Links
6:55 T he Modes
10:23 Customizations
11:02 Back to the Modes
13:46 Search and Bookmarks
17:14 Getting Help and Documentation
19:30 Firefox Containers
20:46 Preferences
22:46 Things I Don't Like
24:42 Wrapping Up (Finally)
The Linux Cast | creating linux podcasts, Linux related videos, and more. | Patreon
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eshep likes this.
\m/ thanks!
Davinci Resolve gets some Linux love @Blackmagic_News, @fedora 38 released! Is @SolusProject back? DPaint.js Amiga editor, Emails #opensource #TechNews youtu.be/HHZCoW_nf2U instagram.com/p/CrQ8gS8BGWb/?uโฆ
LWDW #Linux news this week!! ๐๐ง๐ง๐ง I got interviewed on @KubernetesPod from #SCaLE20x! :-D Davinci Resolve gets some Linux love @Blackmagic_News, @fedora 38 released! Is @SolusProject back? DPaint.js Amiga editor, Emails #opensource #TechNews youtu.be/H
April 20, 2023 - 1 likes, 0 comments - Jill Bryant Ryniker (@jill_linuxgirl) on Instagram: "LWDW #Linux news this week!! ๐๐ง๐ง๐ง I got interviewed on @KubernetesPod from #SCaLE20x..."Jill Bryant Ryniker (Instagram)
The Map of the World is now available as digital PDF pack! You will find it on my store: thevoyagersworkshop.com/collecโฆ
And on DrivethruRPG: drivethrurpg.com/product/43449โฆ
I created this map to help and inspire your gaming group to create a more believable setting for your adventures.
#ttrpg #worldbuilding #cartography #inspiration
Map of the World - Digital
A large and magnificently rendered and coloured digital map of a mysterious fantasy world. Use it for your home brew D&D or other fantasy TTRPG campaign.The Voyagerโs Workshop
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Survival game Vintage Story set for a huge update with a big story event
Vintage Story is a survival game that I simply love to watch and casually dive into now and then, and it's probably one of the most impressive indie open-world survival games around, if you like things hardcore.Liam Dawe (GamingOnLinux)
#linux #linuxgaming #update #hardware #amd #gpu #pro
Valent is A KDE Connect Client For GTK-Based Desktops (Cinnamon, Xfce, MATE, Pantheon)
linuxuprising.com/2023/02/valeโฆ#Linux #Gnome #GTK #Cinnamon #MATE #Pantheon #Xfce
Valent Is A KDE Connect Client For GTK-Based Desktops (Cinnamon, Xfce, MATE, Pantheon)
Valent Is A KDE Connect Client For GTK-Based Desktops (Cinnamon, Xfce, MATE, Pantheon)
Valent is A KDE Connect Client For GTK-Based Desktops (Cinnamon, Xfce, MATE, Pantheon)
linuxuprising.com/2023/02/valeโฆ#Linux #Gnome #GTK #Cinnamon #MATE #Pantheon #Xfce
Valent Is A KDE Connect Client For GTK-Based Desktops (Cinnamon, Xfce, MATE, Pantheon)
Valent Is A KDE Connect Client For GTK-Based Desktops (Cinnamon, Xfce, MATE, Pantheon)
Everyone needs to know there's a Fediverse -- much like they need to know there's an Internet.
Referring to @pixelfed as a Mastodon app, for example, is kind of like referring to Wikipedia as a Facebook app. Yes, @pixelfed with Mastodon, but it's not a Mastodon apps. Yes, Wikipedia connects to Facebook via hyperlinking and previewing, but it's not a Facebook app.
You wouldn't refer to Facebook as the Internet. This is why you shouldn't refer to Mastodon as the Fediverse.
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I've had a number of people say to me, "Mastodon is a synonym for the Fediverse."
That's only true if you never leave Mastodon, and believe other services work exactly like Mastodon.
For example, look at this feed. If I showed this to a complete noob and said, "This is Mastodon", they would be completely confused.
And that's because it's actually not Mastodon in any logical or meaningful sense.
Why is it important for people to know that a Fediverse exists?
Because just as people can do different things on different websites, they need to know that they can do different things on different Fediverse services.
Most people don't visit Wikipedia expecting it to be Facebook. And most people shouldn't visit @pixelfed expecting it to be Mastodon.
"But why can't we do everything through Mastodon and define function at the client level?" some people ask.
Because servers create boundaries on what clients can do.
Mastodon doesn't support comment control. Other Fediverse server software, like @pixelfed, does.
This isn't to say that Mastodon is a "worse" service, just that there's certain functions that it does and doesn't support -- and a client can't add those functions.
And believe me, that's fine!
The Fediverse could unlock untold innovation on the Internet, as much as the world wide web and email.
Some might wonder why that didn't happen 10 or 20 years ago. The reason is that it social media's true innovative possibilities were kneecapped by centralization and the entities that became Big Social.
But because the Fediverse exists through *protocols* not *proprietary APIs*, it isn't owned by anyone. This makes it possible for anyone to build off of it.
Currently, what's preventing us from an explosion of innovative Fediverse services?
Mental paradigms.
We've been so thoroughly trained to believe that social media should operate through a walled garden, that we so many of us don't actually believe it that the Fediverse offers a functional alternative.
"What? @pixelfed can talk to Mastodon -- but it's not Mastodon? Impossible!" they say.
Yesterday, I expressed exasperation that Mastodon users don't try other Fediverse services. The sheer numbers bear witness too this.
While Mastodon has ~10 million accounts, @pixelfed only has ~150,000 accounts.
That means 9,850,000 of you have never tried @pixelfed -- and besides Mastodon, Pixelfed is one of the most popular Fediverse services.
This unwillingness to try the rest of the Fediverse could end up killing the Fediverse!
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Seems many of these people just want a place where they can replicate the experience they were accustomed to on twitter. They neither know, nor care to know that other things exist, they want everything in a single location because that's how they understand (been led to believe) it's ""sposed to work"" with social media.
I see no problem with them wanting to use it in that way. The danger in it is with them misinforming people who do want more from the service. For those folks, being told "that's just how it works here", is very much the wrong advice.
Chris Trottier likes this.
Re-inventing the federated wheel because you don't know that wheels exist
I keep seeing lots of people who are totally giddy about the #Fediverse, who are gushing over it, who want to promote it, who want it to spread.
And who want it to advance. To learn new abilities. To grow new features.
That's all fine and dandy.
But almost all of these people are still fully convinced that the Fediverse equals #Mastodon. And nothing else. At least not until Tumblr and P92 join the fray. Okay, maybe the #WordPress plug-in that's the talk of the town now that it has become official. Okay, maybe a few of them have also heard of #Pixelfed and/or #PeerTube because their makers are all over the Fediverse.
When these people are talking about the Fediverse, they mean Mastodon. And when they're thinking about the Fediverse, they're only thinking about Mastodon. Because that's all they know.
So these people want new cool features or even new cool use-cases in the Fediverse, stuff that Mastodon doesn't have. They want Mastodon to have it, or they want new projects to be launched that have these features.
If only they knew.
If only they knew that everything, literally everything they propose has already been done. Yes, in the Fediverse. In projects which are fully federated with Mastodon. Why don't they know? Because they've never heard of any of these projects, much less what they can do.
So they want "quote-tweets" in the Fediverse. Which means they want Mastodon to introduce them.
Tell you what: Mastodon is the only microblogging project in the Fediverse that doesn't have quotes. Not only will Eugen Rochko never introduce them, but all the other projects have them with Mastodon forks #GlitchSoc such as being the exception. #Pleroma has them. #Akkoma has them. #MissKey has them. #CalcKey has them. #FoundKey has them. #GoToSocial has them. The old heavyweights #Friendica and #Hubzilla have them, and so does Hubzilla's youngest decendant, the #Streams project. Et cetera.
You want "quote-tweets"? Switch to something that isn't Mastodon, and you've got "quote-tweets".
Or text formatting in posts like bold type, italics, underline, strikethrough, code blocks etc. Would be great if Mastodon had that, in spite of other people saying they don't want it.
Again: Pleroma already has it. Akkoma already has it. MissKey already has it. CalcKey already has it. FoundKey already hasit. GoToSocial already has it. Friendica already has it. Hubzilla already has it (look at this post at its source in a Web browser and weep). (streams) already has it. And so forth. This time, even Mastodon forks have it.
It has been done. It has been done many times. It has actually been done before Mastodon.
Next, long-form blog posting. We need something like #Medium in the Fediverse that isn't Medium itself. Mastodon's 500 characters are too few, and Twitter-like threads are inconvenient.
Except we already have that, too. #Plume and #WriteFreely are about as close to Medium as Mastodon is to Twitter, including clean and distraction-less layouts. Oh, and Hubzilla can do that, too.
By the way: Again, Mastodon is the only Fediverse project that can do microblogging that has a 500-character limit. Pleroma, Mastodon's oldest direct competitor, raised it to a default of 6,000. MissKey and its forks have 3,000 as a default. Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) have character limits of "go ahead, drop your short story in one post in its entirety," so virtually none at all. And yes, Hubzilla has long-form writing on top of that.
Speaking of Hubzilla: Most recently, there has been the idea to uncouple one's online identity from a specific instance. Your online self should no longer be firmly tied to any one server exclusively. Now, this sounds so ambitious, it might just as well be science-fiction.
What if I told you that just this very thing already exists as well?
No, really. No, I'm not making this up. But you should know by now that I'm not.
Better yet: It was conceived as early as 2011. By the guy who launched Friendica in 2010. He invented a new principle named #NomadicIdentity and a new protocol named #Zot. In its early stages already, even with no technical implementation yet, Zot was more powerful than ActivityPub is today.
In 2012, Zot became reality as the basis of a Friendica fork which later became known as #RedMatrix and, upon its 1.0 stable release in late 2015, which is still prior to Mastodon's initial release, Hubzilla. Hubzilla is still being developed and improved, and it has a fledgling but growing "successor of a successor" named (streams) which offers nomadic identity, too.
Now, what does this nomadic identity even look like? Well, not only does it let you move your channel(s) around from instance to instance with ease and, unlike on Mastodon, with absolutely everything on it. No, it also lets you have your channel on multiple instances at once. Identical clones, automagically kept in sync in real-time, all with the same identity, the same content, the same connections.
Your identity is no longer strapped down to one instance. Not only that, but your channel, your posts, your content is no longer hosted on only one server. This means that if one instance with one of your clones goes down, you still have spares.
Okay, so how about community groups/forums? That'd be cool.
Well, for one, there's #Guppe. It's basically bolted on Mastodon, and in practice, it's centralised because there's only one instance. But it's impractical to use.
Besides, this is becoming a running gag here, Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) have exactly this built-in and open for the rest of the Fediverse.
Better yet: There's also #Lemmy which amounts to a federated #Reddit or #HackerNews clone. So not only does Lemmy offer this, it specialises in it.
Hubzilla alone can provide Fediverse feature suggestions with "has been done" for years to come. Not to mention what else the Fediverse has to offer. Even if someone should want a free, non-commercial, decentralised, federated #GoodReads clone in the Fediverse, it has been done: #BookWyrm.
- Fediverse.Party - explore federated networks
Let's make social media free, federated and fun! Fediverse.Party is your guide into the world of decentralized, autonomous networks running on free open software on a myriad of servers across the world. No ads and no algorithms.fediverse.party
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@serious business :donor: This may depend on how exactly quotes are formatted.
I think it's usually only a case of the formatting being stripped so that Mastodon users can't see what and how much of a post is a quote. For example, Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) use good old BBcode, and Mastodon strips off all formatting that comes from BBcode except [url][/url] (ActivityPub actually uses Rich Text to transmit formatting).
Other projects may use the even older leading >. Stripping it makes little sense, but Mastodon doesn't recognise it as a quote yet.
Quote posts are under exploration, according to the official roadmap, and Eugen had said publicly that his thinking has evolved on the subject and not to take his previous stance as gospel.
Not that your overall point is at all wrong, as they arenโt here yet but are and have been elsewhere in the Fediverse.
It can become something great, but don't expect people to adopt en masse until it reaches a more mature state.
Same for other projects in similar state.
@Genders: โพ๏ธ, ๐ชโฌ๐ฉ; Soni L. #ActivityPub. The language which (most of) the #Fediverse speaks.
It is how Mastodon instances talk to other Mastodon instances. And it is how, for example, Pleroma instances talk to Mastodon instances. Or to each other.
mnemonicoverload likes this.
okay well, how many steps (and which) do you need to take to fav or boost this linked post? chaos.social/@SoniEx2/11002314โฆ
and what if it were posted on something like IRC or email instead, how many/which steps would it take then?
@DaywalkingRedhead I've never really seen #PeerTube as a #TikTok replacement. Maybe the devs could say something about it (@PeerTube).
@EamonnMR I'm not quite sure what exactly you mean with "app".
If you mean whether users of different mobile apps for the #Fediverse can stay in contact with users with the mobile app named "Mastodon" that you install from the Apple App Store or the Google Play Store, that's the wrong question. But the answer is yes.
If you mean whether users of different projects (platforms, server apps etc.) in the Fediverse that aren't Mastodon can stay in contact with Mastodon users, then: Yes, they can. Each project I've mentioned is federated with Mastodon, i.e. they all connect to Mastodon, and their users can interact with Mastodon users.
That's the magic of the Fediverse. And that's the actual idea behind the Fediverse. After all, the Fediverse is not only Mastodon.
@{mattl@social.mat.tl} They don't have to put up with all these features.
If they want cool new features, they may move to e.g. Akkoma or CalcKey or Friendica or whatever. If they don't, they can stay on good old Mastodon.
What they won't get, though, is a 100%, 1:1 Twitter clone, just without Elon Musk.
@Phoenix Thank you!
@Genders: โพ๏ธ, ๐ชโฌ๐ฉ; Soni L. Do you mean me myself in my specific situation or "you" as in anyone with whichever app is the most popular on whichever hardware/OS platform is the most popular?
Do you mean which steps I personally would take using Hubzilla through Firefox on desktop GNU/Linux? Or which steps a beginner would have to take, e.g. using the official Mastodon app on an iPhone?
I could tell you the former, but it'd be of little use for most here. I can't tell you the latter because I don't have any practical experience with it.
@Genders: โพ๏ธ, ๐ชโฌ๐ฉ; Soni L. Since I don't have that post in my stream:
Step 1: Copy the URL.
Step 2: Click on the magnifying glass for search.
Step 3: Paste the URL into the search field.
Step 4: Hit Enter. The post should appear now.
Step 5: Do with it as I please. Share, like, reply, save in a folder, whatever.
Basically, interaction with any post is only one search away.
okay, so from something like IRC or email you have:
1. copy the URL
2. manually switch to the browser, then to the instance
3. click search
4. paste URL
5. finally, hit enter
whereas something like twitter it's just
1. click URL
do you see the problem? do you see why fedi is bleeding users?
@Genders: โพ๏ธ, ๐ชโฌ๐ฉ; Soni L. Well, if we were to put ease-of-use above everything else for everyone, we should shut down all projects that aren't Mastodon and then turn Mastodon into a 100%, 1:1 Twitter clone with the only exceptions being the name and the fact that Mastodon isn't owned by Elon Musk. Make mastodon.com both the project website and the only instance, make Mastodon one huge centralised monolithic silo owned by a Mastodon, Inc. in Palo Alto, CA (NASDAQ: MSDN).
Hubzilla wasn't launched in 2022 in a reaction to the launch of Mastodon which in turn was a reaction upon Musk's Twitter takeover. Mastodon was launched in 2016 with no mobile app. And Hubzilla had its 1.0 release in 2015, development began in 2012, and the target audience wasn't the tech-illiterate iPhone user, it was the Linux geek.
Mastodon wasn't built to be mainstream. Hubzilla was even less built to be mainstream.
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so the linux geek should be forced to put up with that crap because demanding better of your tools is too much to ask for?
is it really made for the linux geek, or for the C89 evangelist? because even the modern linux geek uses rust nowadays, complete with borrow checker. but the C89 evangelist will claim turning on -Wall is against the spirit of C. why *not* demand better of mastodon and hubzilla, too?
@Genders: โพ๏ธ, ๐ชโฌ๐ฉ; Soni L. The Linux geek has different priorities than the tech-illiterate iPhone user. It's all about security, data/privacy protection and efficiency and about definitely not being bullshat by anyone. The latter is one of the reasons why Linux geeks distrust non-free, closed-source software. Efficiency is why Linux geeks have drifted away from the 2000s' easier-to-use KDE and GNOME to nowadays' i3wm. Many only know GUIs from Firefox anymore. "The modern Linux geek" generally doesn't use mice, touchpads or other pointing devices anymore.
And the former two points are why Linux geeks distrust big, corporate centralised silos. Friendica was built to have a powerful social network platform like Facebook, but free-as-in-free-license, open-source, non-commercial, non-corporate, decentralised and federated. In fact, federated with everything and then some. Still, Friendica's target audience weren't those who used the Facebook app on their iPhones while neither knowing nor caring what happened in the background.
And Hubzilla was made because even Friendica didn't provide enough resilience with its decentralisation yet. Even more than in Friendica's case, the target audience did not include tech-illiterate Joe Average. Hubzilla has always been for people who either know what they're doing or are willing to learn.
The Fediverse was made by tech geeks for tech geeks. Mastodon was launched in 2016 when nobody could even expect Elon Musk to buy out Twitter. When nobody would have expected a mass-exodus of Joe Averages with neither knowledge nor interest in tech from Twitter to Mastodon. And when Friendica and Hubzilla adopted ActivityPub, nobody had in mind if and how these Joe Averages could understand that, although they're on Mastodon, they'd certainly interact with people on entirely different services. And it didn't matter. Other things mattered a whole lot more.
If tech geeks had always put the focus 100% on ease-of-use and neglected everything else, we literally wouldn't have any free, open-source software nowadays because all the commercial software is easier to use. Eugen Rochko wouldn't have created Mastodon because the Twitter mobile app was easier to use than Mastodon would have been in a Web browser. Mike Macgirvin wouldn't have created Friendica, Red Matrix/Hubzilla, Osada, Zap, Misty, Roadhouse and (streams) because the Facebook mobile app was easier to use than either of them in a Web browser.
Linux and XMPP should have taught the Linux geeks that average computer users can't handle having to choose. And yet, Laconica/StatusNet/GNU social became decentral. As did Friendica. As did Diaspora*. As did Mastodon and everything else that uses ActivityPub. As, by the way, did Matrix.
And why?
Because their creators wanted to create online services that don't end up entirely in one hand. A hand that could possibly misuse its own power. They actually wanted to encourage people to run their own private instances. They wanted people to own their own data. Of course, first and foremost, they had people in mind who were fully capable of setting up a LAMP stack on a headless server and maintaining it through ssh. Having to choose between a one-click solution for tech-illiterate dummies and security, they picked the latter.
Also, they, just like their target audience, like to get their hands dirty on techy stuff. They want control. Control over everything that happens. They want to know how stuff works, and they want control over how that stuff works. They want things to happen the way they want it, not the way some developer or even some corporation wants it.
They hate black boxes. They hate closed-source software. They hate it when they have to push a button, and then some magic that's none of their business happens somewhere in the background, well-hidden from them. They don't trust such crap.
They want to KNOW what happens. First-hand, if need be. And, if need be, they want to have an influence on what happens and why it happens. They want to be able to disrupt it if something bad happens. They want to be able to fix it if it's broken. They want to be able to manipulate it until it acts the way they need it to act.
This, by the way, is largely why Hubzilla's UX is as complicated as it is: It isn't made for people seeking the simplicity of WhatsApp. It's made for geeks who want to assume full control over everything their channel can do. People who distrust autopilots, assistants and obfuscated algorithms.
The reason why Hubzilla is both decentralised and nomadic is because it was made by people who prefer security over maximum ease-of-use for people who prefer security over maximum ease-of-use. For people who have seen too much snake oil and security-through-obscurity bullshit in their lives. For people who want to know and be able to verify why exactly something is as secure as it's claimed to be.
However, this entire philosophy and everything that came from it clashes hard with the demands and expectations of 10,000,000 tech-illiterates who have come over from Twitter, initially expecting a 100% Twitter clone, and many of whom now demand their 100% Twitter clone at all costs. Also because they neither know nor care what the costs would be.
If you simplify the Fediverse by forcing everything that isn't Mastodon to shut down in order to no longer confuse tech-illiterates with people who claim they aren't on Mastodon although they seem to be, the Fediverse will lose a whole lot of power and versatility. Of course, the tech-illiterates won't care, they want the Fediverse to be an as-easy-as-possible Twitter clone.
If you simplify the Fediverse further by axing all mobile apps except for one official app that's non-free and closed-source in order not to break its own license by its mere presence in the Apple App Store, you subject all its users to not only potential spying, privacy breaches and all kinds of private data going where at least some of us don't want it to go. Again, tech-illiterates won't care as long as the app is easy to use.
If you simplify the Fediverse even further by turning it all into one big, centralised, monolithic data silo operated by the same company that also develops everything, just so that people don't have to put up with having to choose an instance (or learning what instances are), you take "somewhere else to go" away from people. And it'd become possible for one individual to take over the whole Fediverse. With nowhere else to go, people will have to leave the Fediverse as a whole, and their only alternatives would be other corporate silos.
Because developing resilient alternatives is out of question. Because they wouldn't be easy enough to use.
MiKlo:~/citizen4.eu$๐๐ likes this.
@Genders: โพ๏ธ, ๐ชโฌ๐ฉ; Soni L. It's basically the same as "If #Linux wants to take over the desktop, it'll have to become identical to #Windows, just free-of-charge and without malware. No more distros, one Linux for everyone, one desktop environment, one graphical toolkit, only one of each, whatever it is."
Linux never wanted to take over the desktop.
- click url
- unable to favorite tweet due to being permanently banned by the single twitter instance in existence.
Funny how, in spite of the rising number of likes, many people seem to misunderstand what I've written.
Here's a short explanation.
People: We want bold type and italics and stuff in the Fediverse! And quote-tweets! And more than 500 characters! Please, #Mastodon, include it!
Me: Join #Akkoma (
https://akkoma.social/
Join an Akkoma instance today to start expressing yourself alongside a community of like-minded people.
Or if you don't like Akkoma, try #Pleroma (
).
Or #MissKey (
ใMisskeyใใญใธใงใฏใๅ ฌๅผใMisskey Hub: https://misskey.page/
ใใใผใใงใฒใใใใใใใฏใผใฏใๅๆฃๅSNS Misskeyใฎๅ ฌๅผใตใคใใMisskeyใฎใฏใใใใใใตใผใใผไธ่ฆงใชใฉใMisskeyใซ้ขใใๆ ๅ ฑใๆบ่ผ๏ผ
Or #CalcKey ().
Or #GoToSocial ().
Or if you don't mind something bigger, #Friendica ().
Or if you don't mind a hard-to-handle feature monster, #Hubzilla (#^hubzilla.org/).
And all of them let you stay in contact with your friends on Mastodon.
#MastodonIsNotTheFediverse. Nor is Mastodon the best the #Fediverse has to offer.
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It also has a markdown option, but I haven't turned it on until that feature is upstreamed in mastodon itself. Presumably friendica et alia will follow (or already have?)
@Kermode The different projects use different markup languages for formatting.
Some microblogging projects use Markdown, some HTML in addition. Friendica, Hubzilla and (streams) use an extended variant of BBcode.
ActivityPub turns everything into Rich Text afterwards.
mnemonicoverload likes this.
I use joplin for notes, so I know md to some extent. Joplin also has 'extended' the md, so... I don't really know how much I know is actually transferable. Like tables for example. No idea, but they're handy.
People want something differently - well, it probably already exists, you just have to migrate to another corner of the #fediverse.
mnemonicoverload likes this.
@basisbit There may be a few who were given the choice between multiple projects (e.g. Mastodon vs Akkoma vs Friendica etc.) right away, also being told that they'd have the exact same people to connect to, regardless of what they choose, and who chose what appeared as the closest to Twitter.
But for each of them, you have thousands upon thousands who were only told about Mastodon, who were told that Mastodon is the Fediverse, either on Twitter or by mass-media. Including thousands to whom mastodon.social was sold as "Twitter without Musk" because nothing more fit into 280 characters.
It's them I'm talking about.
Scifijunkie likes this.
@basisbit I've already seen it before replying. And I think my previous answer already covers it.
Yes, a few people were shown the whole Fediverse before joining. Out of all projects, they picked Mastodon because it seemed the most simple and the closest to Twitter to them.
Others were shown the whole Fediverse before joining, and they picked something that isn't Mastodon because they found Mastodon to be too lacking.
Most were only shown Mastodon, usually only one instance. They didn't get to choose because they didn't know they had a choice, much less what their choices would have been.
Some of the latter actually don't want there to be anything else than Mastodon. They want the Fediverse to be as simple as possible. Multiple Mastodon instances are already too complicated. Multiple different projects in the Fediverse, each with multiple instances, now, that really goes too far. Everything that isn't Mastodon has to go, also because everything that isn't Mastodon is too complicated all in itself.
Scifijunkie likes this.
@Jupiter Rowland
Edge case "technically inclined" non-tech Frendica user reporting in. Perpetually disaffected genXer, product of the BBS -> CompuServe -> Internet 1.0 pipeline. Don't really consider myself a techie though, I use Windows and haven't written any code since a VBScript I whipped up over a decade ago. I understand tech, but I'm not immersed in it. Literally no one "showed" me anything about the Fediverse.
As a Twitter user from the days when the killer feature was posting via SMS I had heard of the Fediverse, Diaspora*, etc bubbling away in the background, but it never rose to the level of something I needed to give serious consideration before. When rumblings of Elon possibly buying Twitter started I knew I needed to be ready to jump ship if the worst occurred and I felt I should be ready to help others who might need to do the same.
I literally just hit up Wikipedia, looked up the entry on the Fediverse and started researching the various platforms from there. I landed on Frendica ironically because it offered Twitter cross-integration and I knew that could be helpful for some of my Twitter friends who couldn't afford to just leave there cold for various reasons like relying on it to promote their business or art or sex work, organizing mutual aid, organizing protests, etc.
When I did jump ship in October it was clear Twitter integration wasn't a priority for me anymore, the platform was a lost cause for me by then (and I stopped visiting Twitter at all by early November). Never did end up convincing anyone who was looking to leave Twitter but relied on it in ways that made other parts of the Fediverse untenable to them that Frendica was a viable alternative though. In the end it was all just too opaque and confusing to them despite my best efforts to help them navigate it all.
@Rocky Carr Good to know it takes only one afternoon to read my stuff.
Also explains my number of followers...
Many of these sound very cool, but at least in the US and English I'm finding most instances (Pleroma, hubzilla) throwing errors and empty of users.
I come from a networking background. I've seen so many 'better' protocols fail while TCP and IPv4 just keep chugging along doing consistent adequate work. And I feel like I'm seeing this pattern yet again.
After all, we are not talking here about having to change the protocol for a better one. What we are talking about is that the perception of the fediverse is skewed by one #dominant #platform and applications for it. This platform and its applications will never meet all the requirements of all users because this is against decentralisation and diversity, what is we need here.
Alien (A23P) reshared this.
Yeah, the fediverse should be explored more, it gets quite tiring over the years to see even implementers wanting things that had prior art and so could benefit from at least being studied so you could make better designs or simply be compatible.
btw slight corrections:
- Pleroma currently doesn't really supports quotes except inline via blockquotes. And while we do want to support MissKey-style quotes, implementing it on our side has been enough of a mess to get abandoned, hopefully it will get revisited at some point.
- Pleroma's default character limit is 5 000 not 6 000, and that configurable limit is given to clients via reusing what glitch-soc added in MastodonAPI
like this
Jupiter Rowland and Mark like this.
Functionally, the Fediverse seems to be roughly old email (SMTP) minus a few vital features. One of them is the mandatory "subject" line, so that when you check your "inbox" in the Fediverse you get the whole messages, rather than just a list of sender/subject lines that you can choose whether to open or not.
>>
from a user perspective, not only do I then have to find an instance of something that supports those features and move to it, I also may need different client software.
Which I think IS confusing (echoing the complaint that mastodon is more confusing than twitter, for example.)
But that is BAD, VERY BAD! So the Fediverse is split into a myriad platforms -- and hence communities -- with incompatible features.
That may be great for the computer nerds who will join a dozen platforms just to revel in the features. It is terrible for those who only want a platform to communicate with other people...
Mark doesn't like this.
Scifijunkie likes this.
#Email has supported different content-types since at least 1992 (rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1341) with no guarantee any given client supports any given content-type, none of this is new.
#Usenet & #Fidonet also had ways prior to #MIME, such as via extension headers (with flaws that MIME addressed).
It strikes me as weird that we're able to have this discussion on a number of different federated ActivityPub servers, using a growing variety of front-ends, and still there are people complaining that it's not working as well as it should, because reasons.
I still don't know what I'm supposed to make of fact that some people don't know the difference between Mastodon and Hubzilla. Well if it comes to that, they don't need to know. It all works just fine anyway, as long as you can grasp that users are identified by at username at instance instead of at username.
Are we indeed able to dicuss Fediverse-wide? Or just among those who use a particular prootcol (ActivityPub?)?
And even within the latter, there seem to be obvious problems. I don't see any markups in other people's messages (e.g. cant tell block quotes from the sender's own text). And I am limited to 500 byte posts, so I cannot quote 1000 chars from a post that someone else sent me.
@Jorge Stolfi @Jupiter Rowland @Charlie Stross
out of curiosity, what do you see if I use italic or bold text on my platform?
or even a block quote (which I'm sure is not supported by mastodon)
@Jorge Stolfi @Jupiter Rowland @Charlie Stross
that's what I expected: I don't know whether it's my platform (friendica) that sends stuff that knows that the target can read (plain unicode text) or mastodon that specifically ignores the bbcode (yeah, friendica uses bbcode for markup, for historical reasons I believe).
like this
Flittermouse ๐๐ฉ :ablobbass: :ablobdrum: :ablobkeyboard: and Elena ``of Valhalla'' like this.
I've seen the occasional mention of NomadicIdentity but never been able to find any details, implementations etc. Search engines just pull up lot's of stuff about digital nomads instead.
Any idea where to start with #NomadicIdentity ?
People on platforms capable of displaying the original content, should not be effected by your platforms ability to interpret that content.
I get the italics, bold, and block quotes, too. If somebody isn't getting that, and it's important enough to them, they can easily migrate to an instance that will provide the markup. I actually did that myself a couple of weeks ago, but for reasons unrelated to the capabilities of the social media server. My old account was on a Mastodon instance called musician.social, and my new account is running Akkoma, a hard fork of Pleroma.
Despite running a completely different implementation, Akkoma was capable of migrating my Mastodon followers, followed, and other settings over. My old posts couldn't be migrated, but I find this limitation acceptable. I can understand why some may be wary of migrating.
Musician.Social
MUSICIAN.SOCIAL is an instance focused on Musicians who create, play, or love #jazz, #rock, #pop, #indie, #classical and all other types of #musicMastodon hosted on musician.social
ActivityPub
The ActivityPub protocol is a decentralized social networking protocol based upon the [ActivityStreams] 2.0 data format.www.w3.org
In this regard (apart from interaction model), ActivityPub is more like old FTP, rather than SMTP+MIME, NNTP, the WWW, and the "social networks".
That is, AP does not try to ensure that a message sent by a user from a compliant server can be read faithfully (apart from non-semantic layout and looks) by recipients in every other server. Because the sender may use a message format that the receiver can't properly handle.
Is this correct?
I'm not an implementer, but it's my understanding that the recipient can tell the sender what it can handle, while the sender may include a source attribute containing the original content, as well as the transformed content that complies with the recipient's stated requirements.
I think somebody above referred to the notion of degrading gracefully, and that's certainly possible using such mechanisms.
Yes, but that is still not good. Within ActivityPub, one cannot write a *message* that, a priori, is known to be correctly readable by any of the intended recipients -- unless it is a short (< 500 bytes) text in plain ascii, with no italics, boldface, or other markup, and no embedded images... >>
>> For the ActivityPub network to be a better alternative to social networks, or even to WWW, the ActivityPub standard should specify a *message* format -- such as HTML 3.0 -- that is rich enough for modern expectations (embedded images and hyperlinks, tables, etc.), but that every compliant implementation is required to handle and display properly, on any minimally powerful platform.
Sorry. I have been using ">>" to indicate continuation in threads. A habit I carried over from the birdโซโซโซโซdogecoin site. My mastodon instance limits posts to 500 bytes.
Would "๐งตโ>" be the proper way here?
I wish someone had warned me of that 4 months ago, when I joined through mas.to. Oh well.
But the problem is not what kind of text **I** can read and write. It is **lack of interoperability**. It is the fact that, no matter in which server I am hosted, I cannot be sure that everyone who gets my posts will be able to read them correctly -- unless I write only 500 chars of plain ascii.
@eshep I guess that @Jorge Stolfi was a) told that #Mastodon is the #Fediverse and b) given mas.to as the URL to go to instead of joinmastodon.org.
So whoever guided him to Mastodon either didn't know better themselves or wanted to make it as easy for newcomers as possible, short-cutting the instance selection process by directing them immediately to one instance and not even telling them that such a thing as instances exist.
It happened on Twitter all the time, also because there's only so much you can explain in 280 characters. That's why you have people who joined in November during the #TwitterMigration, who didn't find out about instances and Mastodon's decentral nature until February, and who didn't find out that there's more to the Fediverse than only Mastodon until March.
They were guided by tweets such as
go to mastodon its literally twitter without muskMastodon hosted on mastodon.social: https://mastodon.social
The original server operated by the Mastodon gGmbH non-profit
or in this case
go to mastodon its literally twitter without muskMastodon hosted on mas.to: https://mas.to
Hello! mas.to is a fast, up-to-date and fun Mastodon server.
like this
eshep and clacke: exhausted pixie dream boy ๐ธ๐ช๐ญ๐ฐ๐๐ like this.
@Jupiter Rowland, to be fair, Mastadon is about as twitter as AP gets. :D It almost feels like the twitteriness of mastodon is there intentionally to give people who've been directed to it as an alternative a bad taste for it so they either head back or persist in their dislike of that system.
It really burns my ass when I see posts like those. People pushing things they know nothing about. It's really quite sad how few people understand the "federation" part of FediVerse.
๐งตโ> It seems that for the Fediverse, maybe even for Mastodon, the only message format that can be read by everybody is 500 chars plain Unicode without any markup. Plus maybe one poll and a few images -- but only at the end of the post and with fixed size.
I will probably move to some other instance soon. However, the above constraint applies *no matter where I have my account.* That is the problem...
Jorge Stolfi likes this.
@Jorge Stolfi @eshep @Elena ``of Valhalla'' @๐๐ฎ๐ธ๐ผ๐ฏ :๐ณ๐ฟ๐ถ๐ฒ๐ป๐ฑ๐ถ๐ฐ๐ฎ: ๐ฆ๐น โ @Charlie Stross For example, instead of pointing you straight at one instance, someone could have pointed you here (for Mastodon only):
https://joinmastodon.org/servers
Find where to sign up for the decentralized social network Mastodon.
Now, choosing a project rather than an instance of one set project is more difficult without knowing anything about any of them other that they're probably not owned by Elon Musk.
I'm no longer on Mastodon, but when I used musician.social sometimes a longer post would show up. I think it was split up into 500-character chunks somehow. You're right about the interoperability problem.
But the upside is that we can just move to a different server and take our followers with us. I'm sorry if people think that's irrelevant, but it's a really good selling point for me. The degree to which I can communicate with people is in my own hands.
Musician.Social
MUSICIAN.SOCIAL is an instance focused on Musicians who create, play, or love #jazz, #rock, #pop, #indie, #classical and all other types of #musicMastodon hosted on musician.social
Scifijunkie likes this.
@Jorge Stolfi @eshep @Elena ``of Valhalla'' @๐๐ฎ๐ธ๐ผ๐ฏ :๐ณ๐ฟ๐ถ๐ฒ๐ป๐ฑ๐ถ๐ฐ๐ฎ: ๐ฆ๐น โ @Charlie Stross Nope.
People on mastodon.social which may be the most vanilla of Mastodon instances can read 6,000-character rants written by me with no problems, with nothing cut off.
And everyone on Pleroma, Akkoma, MissKey, CalcKey, FoundKey, GoToSocial, Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams), certain Mastodon forks, the last remaining Redmatrix/Osada/Zap/Misty/Roadhouse instance etc. etc., pretty much everywhere that isn't vanilla Mastodon, can see each other's posts with rich-text formatting all right. It's just vanilla Mastodon that's left out.
The compatibility issues we have mostly come from Mastodon flat-out refusing to cooperate with other projects and, as it seems, deliberately staying incompatible to make everything that isn't Mastodon look bad to Mastodon users. How good can e.g. Friendica be if posts coming from there look so weird on Mastodon?
Mastodon can get away with it for two reasons. One, 99.99% of all new arrivals in the Fediverse land on Mastodon and "know" that the Fediverse is only Mastodon. Once they learn about other Fediverse projects, they believe that these were all created after Mastodon, after the Twitter Migration even, and that they're Mastodon add-ons.
Two, the ActivityPub standard can be stretched to kingdom come. It leaves a lot of things undefined. And this is unlikely to change because nobody is there to maintain and develop ActivityPub anymore. Nothing that Mastodon does goes against the ActivityPub standard.
Thus, everything that isn't Mastodon has to put up with Mastodon's shenanigans and build itself against them, even if it's older than Mastodon and requires a plug-in to understand ActivityPub like Friendica and Hubzilla, or become fully incompatible in the long run. Or at the very least, its instances will be Fediblocked by Mastodon instances because "some weird shit" is coming from them due to increasing incompatibility.
Thanks for the patient advice!
Here on mas.to I cannot read your long messages directly on the timeline. Only the first 500 chars show. I must click on the post and then it is displayed whole in a separate sub-window. Still without markup etc.
๐งตโ>
๐งตโ> But I must dispute "They all can interact together as you are used to interact only from twitter to twiter..." Again, even if I move to friendica, but want my posts to be correctly readable by anyone on the Fediverse, I must still stick to the small Mastodon format...
That is worse than what I had on Usenet or email, 35 years ago.. โน๏ธ
Any chance that Mastodon and the other instances can agree to support a common HTML-3 like message format?
@eshep That's what I do. And it's always the same.
"How can you possibly write more than 500 characters in a toot?"
I'm on Hubzilla.
"Oh, is that a special Mastodon instance with a higher character limit?"
No, it's a different, fully separate Fediverse project that not only is not Mastodon, but that's four years older than Mastodon with next to no character limit and features that exceed your wildest dreams. #^hubzilla.org
[beat] "You're not on Mastodon?"
No.
"But how can I read your posts then if you aren't on Mastodon?"
Because Hubzilla, like many other projects that aren't Mastodon, connects to Mastodon. The Fediverse is not only Mastodon. There are many many other projects out there. All of them can talk to Mastodon, and Mastodon can talk to all of them.
https://fediverse.party
Let's make social media free, federated and fun! Fediverse.Party is your guide into the world of decentralized, autonomous networks running on free open software on a myriad of servers across the world. No ads and no algorithms.
[Worldview-shattering noises] "HOLY SWEET JOHN MASTODON ON A POGO STICK, BATMAN! WHAT THE EVER-LOVING FUCK?!?!?!"
mnemonicoverload likes this.
@Jorge Stolfi
I can't tell you exactly how it works as I'm relatively new here, documentation seems sparse, and I'm unwilling to dig through source code to find out, but my understanding is ActivityPub absolutely supports passing along whatever kind of markup you could possibly want.
The common practice implemented for most of the Fediverse seems to be to translate whatever local markup is being used (eg BBCode on Frendica) into Markdown (I think?) to pass formatting along to other parts of the Fediverse which seems to be well supported by basically everything except Mastodon. It's a choice by the Mastodon devs alone not to adhere to the established convention and turn that back into whatever markup format is needed on their end.
@๐๐ฎ๐ธ๐ผ๐ฏ :๐ณ๐ฟ๐ถ๐ฒ๐ป๐ฑ๐ถ๐ฐ๐ฎ: ๐ฆ๐น โ
I suggest, instead of presuming, and fellow humans who develop Mastodon, to assume
The compatibility issues we have mostly come from Mastodon flat-out refusing to cooperate with other projects and, as it seems, deliberately staying incompatible to make everything that isn't Mastodon look bad to Mastodon users.
Then, in the next step, to waste infinite time in discussions about technical details, simply to try to reach through some channel the people who develop Mastodon and try to clarify whether the thesis, whether the assumption
... as it seems, deliberately staying incompatible to make everything that isn't Mastodon look bad to Mastodon users.
is correct.
Do we agree - the compatibility problems are not caused by technical issues, but by human ones? It does suggest that there is a better chance of solving these compatibility problems on a human level, rather than spending time in discussions that go round and round in circles of "Which technical features of a particular platform are better".
Once they learn about other Fediverse projects, they believe that these were all created after Mastodon, after the Twitter Migration even, and that they're Mastodon add-ons.
Do we agree - the age of a protocol, a platform, a standard - whether this is ActivityPub, Hubzilla or any other platform, is no proof that this platform is better than a younger platform - e.g. Mastodon?
I tried to make it so that a few consoles are always plugged in and ready. Then there's the "jump spot" for taking consoles off the shelf an easy plug in.
Putting the TV on the wall with a swivel arm helped free up room.
Cable management is always in need of improvement.
Wanna come over and play?๐
#retrogaming #RetroComputing
#Sega #Nintendo #Atari #Commodore #NEC #PCEngine #NeoGeo
Planet Earth or Planet Ocean?
Take a look at this fascinating data visualization of countries by their share of Earthโs surface.
There are over 510M square kilometers of area, but <30% is covered by land. Over 70% is the ocean.
Image by Nicholas LePan for Visual Capitalist. Details at visualcapitalist.com/countriesโฆ #nature #science
Visualizing Countries by Share of Earthโs Surface
There are over 510 million kmยฒ of area on Earth, but less than 30% of it is land. We chart countries by share of Earth's surface.Nicholas LePan (Visual Capitalist)
eshep likes this.
Planet ocean, clearly, which relates to why the projected 1.5C increase in global average temperature doesn't have to be evenly distributed, with likely ~1C increase for the oceans but a whooping ~3C increase for the land, with catastrophic consequences:
1C * 2/3 + 3C * 1/3 = 1.66C
...Nope.
BOTH of those are 'buried' under a layer of AIR.
The 'atmosphere' is invisible, so it's easy to ignore, but we are all SUBSURFACE dwellers...
#Science
#SciComm
#Atmosphere
#Aerodynamics
Cool graph.
I've read that the mass of all Oceans is about .02% of the planet. Though water is also common on land and inside the planet, the best name depends on our perspective.. Personally I think of "Human Home Planet", but from space a visitor would probably describe it using water.
Internet Connected Pinball Machine Shows Off Scores
#microcontrollers #pipicow #pinball #hackaday
posted by pod_feeder_v2Internet Connected Pinball Machine Shows Off Scores
Before video games, there were pinball machines. Not that they donโt exist today, but a modern pinball machine will likely have microprocessors and other fancy things that traditional pinballโฆHackaday
#KerbalSpaceProgram 2 just entered early access moments ago!! ๐ฅณ
store.steampowered.com/app/954โฆ
Kerbal Space Program 2 on Steam
Kerbal Space Program 2 is the sequel to the acclaimed space-flight simulation game Kerbal Space Program.store.steampowered.com
eshep likes this.
OG DOOM Shows off the Origins of Multi-Monitor
#classichacks #games #doom #multimonitor #retrogaming #hackaday
posted by pod_feeder_v2OG DOOM Shows Off The Origins Of Multi-Monitor
We have a thing for DOOM, and we admit it. The source was released, and clever hackers have ported the engine to every system imaginable. Itโs a right of passage, when hacking a machine, to rโฆHackaday
retrogaming_bot reshared this.
Boiling Steam likes this.
It's been 230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the #metric system
theregister.com/2023/01/22/retโฆ
It's been 230 years since British pirates robbed the US of the metric system
How did the world's largest economy get stuck with retro measurement?Iain Thomson (The Register)
RT @thirdroomio@twitter.com
We've been working on a bunch of new stuff that just shipped this morning!
๐ถ๏ธ Experimental WebXR Support
๐ฅ Third Person Camera
๐ถ New Character Controller
๐ Experimental Authoritative Networking
๐ฆ New Engine Resource System
And so much more! thirdroom.io
๐ฆ๐: twitter.com/thirdroomio/statusโฆ
eshep reshared this.
These discrete rotations are nauseating. I would hope it's not an easily-accessible antifeature, or it will be made in animated fashion (ease-in-out).
Anyway, great to see WebXR in action. I would also hope for not locking-in with Unity Engine for featured maps. What's the status of editing via Mozilla Spoke?
Chris Trottier
Unknown parent • • •Potung Thul
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Hi. Don't mind me. I appreciate your contributions in making the FediVerse that much better.
I'm just responding to a need to express myself in a manner consistent with my being, so you should probably just ignore the next paragraph.
"ONBOARD" IS NOT A VERB!!!! "ONBOARD" IS NOT EVEN AN ENGLISH WORD!! "ON BOARD" IS A PREPOSITIONAL ADJECTIVE PHRASE THAT DOES NOT TAKE A DIRECT OBJECT!
Okay, all done. We now return to our regular programming.
@stefan @fediversenews
#GrammarNazi
eshep likes this.
anubis2814
in reply to Potung Thul • • •Kevin Davidson
in reply to Potung Thul • • •You will probably be unhappy if you learnt the etymology of many words that were imported, misheard, butchered, re-engineered with local grammar and set loose to breed more words.
eshep likes this.
Potung Thul
in reply to Kevin Davidson • • •@MetalSamurai
I am unhappy about the unnecessary ambiguity caused by ignoring grammar of the parts of speech. For example, the word hammer can be verb or noun, but if you take the verb, and convert that to a noun, you could mean the action of hammering, or the actual tool the hammer itself. In this case, "on board" as a verb may mean to be on board, or the action of becoming on board. Ambiguity, all because we were too lazy to say "bring on board".
#grammar
@atomicpoet @stefan @fediversenews
eshep likes this.
Kevin Davidson
in reply to Potung Thul • • •Words are made of amorphous goo and fighting it will end in tears.
Potung Thul
in reply to Kevin Davidson • • •@MetalSamurai
You are absolutely right. I protest only because it is my nature to balk against creating even more ambiguity where previously language meant something.
Eventually language will degenerate into a single word that will mean anything of which we happen to be thinking at the moment:
"smurf!"
@atomicpoet @stefan @fediversenews
#English
Kevin Davidson
in reply to Potung Thul • • •Potung Thul
in reply to Kevin Davidson • • •@MetalSamurai
I know it seems hopeless. Still, it's the principle of the thing, not to take the rest way out. That's why I am here and not on the bird site.
@atomicpoet @stefan @fediversenews
eshep
in reply to Potung Thul • • •reshared this
Potung Thul reshared this.
Kevin Davidson
in reply to eshep • • •eshep likes this.
Potung Thul
in reply to eshep • • •@eshep
Suffixes help label the part of speech of a word, so I have no problem with getting an invitation, just an invite.
There will always be lazy people in the world, and there will always be a place for those who show how it's supposed to be done.
@MetalSamurai @atomicpoet @stefan @fediversenews
#GrammarNazi
#PartsOfSpeech
eshep likes this.
Stefan Bohacek
Unknown parent • • •@eco_amandine Thank you!
I like the idea, and it would make a lot of sense. Let me give this some more thought.
Kynyc
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Not a UX expert but that looks umm, insane to me.
Every single service is a new and often weird word, so thatโs not plain language.
Example: People care about their Twitter network, which of the five weird names should they choose to replicate Twitter? Thereโs no indication. Not to mention none are all that similar to Twitter user base, which leads to disappointment.
Chris Trottier
in reply to Kynyc • • •eshep likes this.
Kynyc
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Chris Trottier
in reply to Kynyc • • •Kynyc
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •This newbie explainer is implying EVERYONE is reachable on the fediverse, that itโs universal like email.
Chris Trottier
in reply to Kynyc • • •John Abbe (aka Slow)
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Chris Trottier
in reply to John Abbe (aka Slow) • • •John Abbe (aka Slow)
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •@kynyc "the reality of federation is that each server hosts a different community"
Any intro to mastodon or fediverse which didn't communicate this would be incomplete, no? (Unless you, say, recommend and assume the community of mastodon.social and similarly-run big servers if you're talking about Mastodon.)
Chris Trottier
in reply to John Abbe (aka Slow) • • •Kynyc
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •@slowenough why are you even talking about mastodon? Other than being 1st why would a user of that page choose that over the the one that sounds like a spreadsheet or any other of 5.
You state:
in easy-to-understand words -- what the Fediverse is, how it works, and what to try.
All the names are gibberish and also thereโs a ton of them. What to try, well sure thereโs not differentiating between them and also what you try will not be similar in experience, but this is obscured.
John Abbe (aka Slow)
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Mastodon fixes โconfusingโ sign-up process to attract users fleeing Twitter
Ars TechnicaHistoPol (#HP) ๐ด ๐บ๐ธ ๐ด
in reply to John Abbe (aka Slow) • • •@slowenough @kynyc
Have you seen this #Fediverse introduction site?
mastodon.social/@atomicpoet/11โฆ
Chris Trottier
2023-04-29 02:50:17
John Abbe (aka Slow)
in reply to HistoPol (#HP) ๐ด ๐บ๐ธ ๐ด • • •Kynyc
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Stefan Bohacek
in reply to Kynyc • • •@kynyc Appreciate the candid feedback.
Yes, these are not meant to be exact copies of each service, rather a few suggestions for comparable user experience.
I'm also linking to sites that help you pick based on other criteria, and I'm happy to add more, if you have any suggestions.
dragfyre
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Jupiter Rowland
Unknown parent • • •@anubis2814 @Stefan Bohacek @LucyWildboots 🏳️🌈 @Chris Trottier I'm afraid something like this will happen.
Either only Mastodon instances will be suggested because "Mastodon is the standard"/"Mastodon is the default"/"The Fediverse is Mastodon"/whatever, maybe actually because whoever designs something like this doesn't know that the Fediverse is more than Mastodon.
Or you get some more or less hidden setting that allows you to choose an instance of another project. If you don't, you only get Mastodon. Result: still 99.99% Mastodon instances being chosen.
What should actu
... show more@anubis2814 @Stefan Bohacek @LucyWildboots ๐ณ๏ธโ๐ @Chris Trottier I'm afraid something like this will happen.
Either only Mastodon instances will be suggested because "Mastodon is the standard"/"Mastodon is the default"/"The Fediverse is Mastodon"/whatever, maybe actually because whoever designs something like this doesn't know that the Fediverse is more than Mastodon.
Or you get some more or less hidden setting that allows you to choose an instance of another project. If you don't, you only get Mastodon. Result: still 99.99% Mastodon instances being chosen.
What should actually happen is all projects being treated equally, at least all with the same purpose. If there's an Akkoma instance or a CalcKey instance that fits you, then it should be suggested. And if someone demands quotes or text formatting, then they shouldn't get Mastodon slammed into their faces over and over and over again as if there was nothing else.
Or if someone is looking for a replacement for Facebook or Instagram, they shouldn't only get Mastodon instances to pick. The Instagram replacement in the Fediverse is Pixelfed. And the number one Facebook replacement is Friendica, and it has been that since 2010.
Paul Schoe
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Thanks for the link to jointhefediverse.net.
It is an amazingly attractive quick introduction to the Fediverse and it guides people to open Fediverse alternatives for the closed platforms that they are currently used to.
Join the fediverse!
jointhefediverse.netAhri Boy (archived)
in reply to Paul Schoe • • •Paul Schoe
in reply to Ahri Boy (archived) • • •I can't find a link to Foundkey on either Mastodon search or on Google.
Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Paul Schoe • • •@Stefan Bohacek Also, Mobilizon still isn't a replacement for Friendica. If anything, it's a replacement for Doodle.
@Paul Schoe @Fediverse News
Stefan Bohacek
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •@jupiter_rowland I understand that it's not a full replacement, but looking at joinfediverse.wiki/What_is_Mobโฆ, it does say:
"Mobilizon is an event planner with groups support and one of the Fediverse's replacements for Facebook events & groups."
So if you use Facebook just for this particular feature, it sounds like it's worth checking out?
searchenginejournal.com/1-8-biโฆ
1.8 Billion People Use Facebook Groups Every Month
Matt G. Southern (Search Engine Journal)Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Stefan Bohacek • • •Occupy Journey ๐ง๐บ๐ฒโ๐
in reply to Paul Schoe • • •@paulschoe
How many people remember the 90's? Back before corporate controll? I do and I remember being able connect a jabber server to a Yahoo chat service to a Google chat service to facebook chat to twitter ....
Before corporations decide to rule the world...
Mastodon is what the internet once was ๐คฃ
otso
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •>Fediverse is a common name for social media sites that cooperate instead of competing.
this may be more correct: sites that ban and block instead of competing
Alexander K.
Unknown parent • • •@m @mahaska @paulschoe Out of curiosity, which do you think people would be more drawn to?
I don't have a specific favorite, I'm just curious what people think most new users would pick if they had to pick on features alone.
Like in my case, I like Mastodon, but I'm really open to trying anything at this point.
Paul Schoe
in reply to Alexander K. • • •@Alexx9811 @m @mahaska
Unfortunately, I do not believe that people chose on features.
People choose on 3 items:
1) Hype
2) Recommendations.
3) Ease of signing up
Based on hype, I expect that BlueSky will get the largest initial growth. That despite the fact that Jack Dorsey has even said that he likes to replace 'likes' by financial endorsements (mini payments), which he calls: real commitment. This clearly shows what a wolf in sheep's clothes BlueSky is.
Alexander K.
in reply to Paul Schoe • • •@paulschoe @m @mahaska Oh absolutely agree on the reasons why people choose the networks they choose.
I just meant in your opinion if people did actually put features first, what would be your top choices?
Paul Schoe
in reply to Alexander K. • • •@Alexx9811 @m @mahaska
2/2
Based on Ease of signing up, Mastodon comes clearly behind those centralised solutions even though decentralised is what I think people really want.
That means that I put my faith in recommendations. Unfortunately, most of these only occur once people have been burned by choosing based n Hype or on Ease of signing up.
Alexander K.
in reply to Paul Schoe • • •@paulschoe @m @mahaska That makes sense. I'm kind of interested in Calckey as it looks like it might have some things that look pretty cool.
I think it ultimately comes back to what's been said before, the reason Twitter and such are so popular is the plug and play nature of it.
One signs up and they can follow their friends and in cases like Twitter, celebrities and whatnot. Until that's easier anywhere else, I see Bluesky being the most popular.
Jesus Cova
in reply to Alexander K. • • •@Alexx9811 @paulschoe @m @mahaska
I believe that in order to improve the onboarding UX, fediverse apps should not be more complicated than Bluesky. We need to empathize more at the app client level and prioritize safe defaults for new users to learn the ropes with the app, even if it means risking the preferences of long-time users
mnemonicoverload
in reply to Paul Schoe • • •@Paul Schoe
I think that says a lot about how Dorsey sees the platform (and how he saw Twitter): A place where celebrities / influencers provide content to consumers, not a network of peers. He's not building a social network, he's building a parasocial network.
@Occupy Journey ๐ง๐บ๐ฒโ๐ @Alexander K. @m@thias.hellqui.st @Chris Trottier @Stefan Bohacek @Fediverse News
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Alexander K.
in reply to mnemonicoverload • • •Paul Schoe
in reply to Jesus Cova • • •@beans @Alexx9811 @m @mahaska
It is not that difficult to streamline the onboarding process of the Fediverse.
Making one central port of access while allowing individual instances to participate in that or not (many won't, and that is no problem).
But this requires an investment at the top and at this moment, the funding for that is simply not available.
To get it done, crowdfunding is required as there is no clear path to ROI for commercial investors.
Alexander K.
in reply to Jesus Cova • • •Alexander K.
in reply to Paul Schoe • • •Jesus Cova
in reply to Alexander K. • • •Bruce G_NS
in reply to Alexander K. • • •I think the level of perceived complexity is part of it - both my spouse and I are tech types. I found it fairly easy to get up and running in about 10 minutes - one of the local Twitter folk posted he was starting up a server, and the address. Easy to sign up for me, and when that was shutting down, migration was relatively easy. My spouse, not so much. The fact it took a checklist to do the migration for me was a major obstacle for her. Not intuitive
Occupy Journey ๐ง๐บ๐ฒโ๐
in reply to Jesus Cova • • •Jesus Cova
in reply to Occupy Journey ๐ง๐บ๐ฒโ๐ • • •@mahaska @Alexx9811 @paulschoe @m I'm sorry, for centralized social networks theres not much we can do :/
However, there are talks of having a bridge between AT proto and ActivityPub. So, lets say the influencers go to Bluesky and a meaningful fraction of my friends too. We could have an app that fetches those posts and add them into your feed
https://calckey.social/users/9aqhkybllt
Unknown parent • • •Totally agreed. What does complicates things somewhat is that Mastodon due to its dominant position has grown an ecosystem of connected apps that other systems don't really have.
So when you give new users the option to choose between the main server software options, but then also include 3rd party app support in the list, I do think people would choose Mastodon. If we compare vanilla server software, Mastodon would be last on my list. But once we factor in things like @phanpy@hachyderm.io it becomes a nobrainer option for Mastodon again for me. Not because of Mastodon, but because Phanpy is simply that good.
And yeah, I'm very much waiting until Phanpy supports other services (or the services implement masto API fully), because that'll be a real gamechanger imo.
Blake Leonard
Unknown parent • • •Blake Leonard
Unknown parent • • •Maybe it only backfills after following? I haven't checked the profile of a followed user. It seems to function pretty much identically to how it's been on Mastodon, at least for me. Maybe I'm just not sure what profile backfilling is, if not filling in posts from before...
also I'm pretty sure my handle having "calckey.social" gives away that I'm using calckey ๐
https://calckey.social/users/9ch6n4m2kn
in reply to mnemonicoverload • • •I've looked at this as the difference between a social network and social Media. A network is where everything and everyone talks to each other, whereas social media tends to be a feed of dubious quality quasi-information.
@mnemonicoverload@libranet.de@paulschoe@mastodon.world@mahaska@kolektiva.social@Alexx9811@mastodon.social@m@thias.hellqui.st@atomicpoet@mastodon.social@stefan@stefanbohacek.online@fediversenews@venera.social
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eshep
in reply to Chris Trottier • •Alexander K.
Unknown parent • • •@m @mahaska @paulschoe Thank you for that. It's cool to hear people's thoughts.
I am naturally curious about tech, but often my reach exceeds my grasp in terms of understanding everything. I feel like I know more than a casual social media user, but I'm definitely not as well versed as many people on here who really get this stuff at a level I don't.
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Alexander K.
in reply to • • •@unattributed @m @mahaska @paulschoe @mnemonicoverload Ah, another interesting distinction! That's true so far in my experience.
One largely disseminates information from whichever person happens to have a microphone at any given moment in time to people who absorb and react to information, whereas the other is people trading or sharing information amongst themselves as a peer group.
https://calckey.social/users/9ch6n4m2kn
in reply to Alexander K. • • •Yes, the idea of the media (newspapers, television, movies. etc.) is typically uni-directional.
However, a network is typically multi-directional... There maybe nodes or branches in the pathway, but even the lowest leaf can communicate with along any path of the tree efficiently.
There are quite a few analegies that can be used for thiese types of structures.
@Alexx9811@mastodon.social@atomicpoet@mastodon.social@stefan@stefanbohacek.online@m@thias.hellqui.st@mahaska@kolektiva.social@paulschoe@mastodon.world@mnemonicoverload@libranet.de@fediversenews@venera.social
Kevin Davidson
Unknown parent • • •@m Iโm trying different combinations. I have a bunch of computers, but the screens are full of work stuff, so I donโt really use them for social media. I use mobile.
Iโve got CalcKey/Kimis, Friendica/Relatica and Mastodon/Ice Cubes
So far the Mastodon/Ice Cubes combo is the fastest and most generally useful, but Iโm annoyed Iโm missing out on long posts when I want them, and not seeing/sending emoji reactions.
Kevin Davidson
Unknown parent • • •I was using Mona with Friendica, but it was a bit odd. Iโm hoping Relatica will more closely match the native UI.
Trenton Matthews
Unknown parent • • •And #Mastodon isnโt meant for communities, itโs for posting.
How do ya get more people to embrace #Fediverse community platforms such as #Friendica and #Hubzilla?
Den Datafag Trollmann :flag:
Unknown parent • • •eris
Unknown parent • • •:twiz:
in reply to Paul Schoe • • •Jack is pushing nostr to do this too by the way.
I think this is a big mistake. What made FB and Twitter and Youtube cool once upon a time was that they didnt run on advertisements or charge anything.
Once they started doing that, things went downhill. I feel like this is going to turn individuals into advertisers.
Im trying to be very vocal about my opinion on this. But I dont want to come off as rude. So forgive anything that might sound harsh.
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Kevin Davidson
Unknown parent • • •Also, turns out bikeshed.party is blocked by my Mastodon instance, but I realised I was missing some replies.
Kevin Davidson
Unknown parent • • •eris
in reply to :twiz: • • •eris
in reply to eris • • •:twiz:
in reply to eris • • •There are lots of opinions about algorithms. I might be convinced to try something minimal and open source. Say to maybe weed out spam/bots. But buy-in-large I am going to stay away from anything that rewards users for engagement.
I think that has proven to be unhealthy. IMO
Skyler
in reply to :twiz: • • •anubis2814 likes this.
eris
in reply to :twiz: • • •@fediversenewsThe Twitter algorithm is not perfect, but it works and theyโve already open sourced part of it. Just a matter of time before someone experiments with it here, let alone whatever Blue Sky tries.
Idrc as long as there are options that donโt suck. It seems like there will probably always be instances somewhere that keep a classical, chronological feed, just because a lot of people hate algorithms.
:twiz:
in reply to Skyler • • •I
agree with this. Curating your own feed is not that difficult. We have the tools. We have the network. We do not need an algo.
That lie is perpetuated by the algorithm people just trying to get you to buy more algorithm.
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:twiz:
in reply to eris • • •The twitter algorithm is not minimal. And it is not sustainable unless you have a team of people nurturing it.
I personally will probably continue to not trust computers to tell me what I should focus on.
I am willing to be persuaded differently but almost every algorithm Ive used has been one that I wished I didnt have to use.
eris
in reply to :twiz: • • •@fediversenewsIf I had to guess, just from surface level, the main thing that Twitter is doing manually is creating topical categories, which are not very useful. Theyโre mostly for promoting celebrities.
What is useful are the posts it promotes from people your follows follow, and important posts from people you follow. Itโs much easier to find new people through that than it is on sites without it.
:twiz:
in reply to eris • • •I think there is probably significantly more work that goes into it than that. But I dont really know for sure either.
You might persuade me to try something like that but it would be a pretty hard bargain. I think hashtags, instances built on topics, and search queries are doing
fine just the way they are at helping me fund cool people.
Nice to meet you btw.
Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Trenton Matthews • • •@Trenton Matthews @feld First step: Stop mollycoddling newbies by dragging them all to a few huge Mastodon instances and implying that Mastodon is the Fediverse.
Stop making Mastodon or even mastodon.social the frontpage of the Fediverse.
Have people know how big the Fediverse is. Have them know that there's more in the Fediverse than Mastodon, and I mean right away. Don't let them spend half a year on their huge instances in the belief that the Fediverse is only Mastodon.
The longer they live with the mindset there's nothing else out there, the more they'll see all the other Fediverse projects as shoddy knock-offs of their beloved Mastodon. Or competition. Or intruders into their nice and cosy "Mastodon network" which isn't even an enclosed network.
This should also concern tech media and mass media. They have to stop talking about Mastodon as an enclosed
... show more@Trenton Matthews @feld First step: Stop mollycoddling newbies by dragging them all to a few huge Mastodon instances and implying that Mastodon is the Fediverse.
Stop making Mastodon or even mastodon.social the frontpage of the Fediverse.
Have people know how big the Fediverse is. Have them know that there's more in the Fediverse than Mastodon, and I mean right away. Don't let them spend half a year on their huge instances in the belief that the Fediverse is only Mastodon.
The longer they live with the mindset there's nothing else out there, the more they'll see all the other Fediverse projects as shoddy knock-offs of their beloved Mastodon. Or competition. Or intruders into their nice and cosy "Mastodon network" which isn't even an enclosed network.
This should also concern tech media and mass media. They have to stop talking about Mastodon as an enclosed network or even a monolithic, centralised website. They, too, have to treat Mastodon and everything else in the Fediverse the same.
The phenomenon is not Mastodon. The phenomenon is the Fediverse.
Oh, and I can name three active Fediverse projects that are older than Mastodon. So Mastodon wasn't the first either.
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Jupiter Rowland
in reply to eshep • • •@eshep @Trenton Matthews Guppe seems to me like a dirty hack by someone who wanted to introduce groups/forums to Mastodon but didn't know at that point that more powerful solutions already existed (Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams)).
Group discoverability on Guppe is hit-and-miss. It depends on how popular your group is, for Guppe only lists 50 groups whereas Friendica lists all of its forums.
Friendica Directory
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eshep
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •@Jupiter Rowland, yes, a very hacky solution, and yes, I know proper forum-like implementations exist in Friendica, they're fantastic! Equally great is Lemmy being presented in Friendica as a forum. However, being that none of those have a very wide scope of discoverability, it's virtually impossible for a common Mastodon user to find one, much less know about them to begin with. It also wouldn't surprise me to see Guppe preferred over it because other platforms are seen as ""rivals"" or ""clones"" of Mastodon, and Guppe seen as something internal to it because that's how it's been presented to them.
If only there were a way for folks to see what features exist on each platform before committing to one. Simply telling folks thisโthat helps but just isn't quite enough. Nor does the "just join here cause it's what I use"' approach.
And hacky as it may be, I'm happy to see folks wanting a bit stricter conversation control have found a way to do so across the fediverse. It helps those looking for a more intimate atmosphere to find a home here.
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Jupiter Rowland
in reply to eshep • • •@eshep Well, the discoverability of forums themselves is better on Friendica than on Guppe. As I've said, Guppe only lists 50 forums, Friendica lists them all.
But in order to use Friendica, you need to know it exists.
Almost all newcomers to the Fediverse spend their first three to six months "knowing" that the Fediverse is only Mastodon.
Then they start discovering stuff that's bolted onto Mastodon. Like Guppe.
Then they start discovering stuff that's actively being advertised on Mastodon by its creators with thousands upon thousands of boosts. This only applies to Pixelfed and maybe PeerTube. Still, to them, Mastodon is the only one of its kind.
Even later, they may stumble upon other ActivityPub-based microblogging projects. Not even all of them yet. If their worldview wasn't shattered in the previous paragraph, it is now.
And unless this happens through one of my posts, chances are it'll take them even longer to discover projects that a) go
... show more@eshep Well, the discoverability of forums themselves is better on Friendica than on Guppe. As I've said, Guppe only lists 50 forums, Friendica lists them all.
But in order to use Friendica, you need to know it exists.
Almost all newcomers to the Fediverse spend their first three to six months "knowing" that the Fediverse is only Mastodon.
Then they start discovering stuff that's bolted onto Mastodon. Like Guppe.
Then they start discovering stuff that's actively being advertised on Mastodon by its creators with thousands upon thousands of boosts. This only applies to Pixelfed and maybe PeerTube. Still, to them, Mastodon is the only one of its kind.
Even later, they may stumble upon other ActivityPub-based microblogging projects. Not even all of them yet. If their worldview wasn't shattered in the previous paragraph, it is now.
And unless this happens through one of my posts, chances are it'll take them even longer to discover projects that a) go beyond microblogging, b) aren't based on ActivityPub while still speaking it and c) were even created before Mastodon. All three apply to Friendica. Seriously, I wouldn't wonder if many of those who have added @Fediverse News think it's on Mastodon.
Reactions upon the discovery of the Fediverse beyond Mastodon vary, especially if they come with being told that the Fediverse is not just Mastodon plus shoddy Mastodon knock-offs, but there's stuff in the Fediverse that's better at what Mastodon does than Mastodon itself. Some people react with disbelief, some react with out-right denial, and some react the Krikkit way and want everything that isn't Mastodon to be shut down or at least excluded from the Fediverse.
You've already written it: Guppe was created as a Mastodon add-on. Friendica is six years older than Mastodon and out-classes Mastodon in just about everything. Of course, those who have discovered Mastodon to be nice and cosy and perfect don't take the revelation that there's something that's better than Mastodon kindly, so it's only natural that they prefer Guppe.
Also, Guppe has the "advantage" over Friendica of not requiring another user account, another login, potentially another password to memorise. A killer feature for casual Mastodon users.
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narF ๐ฒ
in reply to Trenton Matthews • • •@queenslight @feld
Friendica has super weird and counterintuitive user onboarding. And I'm a veteran Fediverse user. I would never send a new user there.
I never tried Hubzilla though. Maybe I should.
eshep
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •Bruce G_NS
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Bruce G_NS • • •@Bruce G_NS Those who know aren't part of the problem.
It's those who are fully convinced that the Fediverse is only Mastodon and who may go haywire when you tell them that they are already using a non-Mastodon Fediverse project by being connected to Fediverse News.
Anders Rytter Hansen
in reply to Chris Trottier • • •Stefan Bohacek
in reply to Anders Rytter Hansen • • •Anders Rytter Hansen likes this.
https://kitchenparty.online/users/01GNMTYTSFMTM7SXADPT4MEAFP
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •I think it's a hack who wanted to introduce groups to Mastodon users. Because Friendica and Lemmy and Hubzilla and whatever aren't where the people are.
And telling the people that those features they're looking for exist over there hasn't been a super effective strategy.
Bruce G_NS
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Bruce G_NS • • •@Bruce G_NS Okay, let me explain it to you with a fictional dialogue between me and a Fediverse News subscriber who's convinced that all of the Fediverse is Mastodon.
Them: >implying that Mastodon is the Fediverse
Me: #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse.
Them: What do you mean?
Me: You're literally using something that isn't Mastodon, but in the Fediverse. Fediverse News is on Friendica.
Them: But Friendica is a Mastodon server.
Me: No, it isn't.
Them: But it has to be. How else can I possibly use it if it isn't on Mastodon?
Me: Because Mastodon and Friendica speak a common language, ActivityPub. Still, Friendica is an absolutely unrelated project. Face it, there's more in the Fediverse than just Mastodon.
Them: WTF? Then Friendica is a group add-o
... show more@Bruce G_NS Okay, let me explain it to you with a fictional dialogue between me and a Fediverse News subscriber who's convinced that all of the Fediverse is Mastodon.
Them: >implying that Mastodon is the Fediverse
Me: #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse.
Them: What do you mean?
Me: You're literally using something that isn't Mastodon, but in the Fediverse. Fediverse News is on Friendica.
Them: But Friendica is a Mastodon server.
Me: No, it isn't.
Them: But it has to be. How else can I possibly use it if it isn't on Mastodon?
Me: Because Mastodon and Friendica speak a common language, ActivityPub. Still, Friendica is an absolutely unrelated project. Face it, there's more in the Fediverse than just Mastodon.
Them: WTF? Then Friendica is a group add-on for Mastodon?
Me: No, Friendica has got literally nothing to do with Mastodon. It's wholly independent. Actually, it can do everything that Mastodon can do.
Them: So it's some shoddy Mastodon knock-off that can do forums?
Me: No. Friendica can do all that Mastodon can do without Mastodon, it can do it better than Mastodon, and it can do even more on top that Mastodon can't do.
Them: Lies. Why are you fucking lying to me?
Me: Oh, and Friendica is older than Mastodon. Mastodon is from 2016, Friendica is from 2010. When Mastodon was launched, Friendica had been around for a whopping six years already.
Them: Like. What. The. Ever-loving. FUCK?!?!?! Stop bullshitting me! Friendica is nothing but a fucking Mastodon clone, and all that's good about it is the forums, and I don't want anything else than that!
Me: I'm not bullshitting you. If I am, then so is Wikipedia. Release date: July 1st, 2010. That's a fact. Deal with it.
Them: So... there's... like two Mastodons, and they're both in the Fediverse? WTF?
Me: There are many projects in the Fediverse that are like Mastodon but with more features. Pleroma, Akkoma, MissKey, CalcKey, FoundKey... There are many other projects that aren't like Mastodon. Friendica is more like Facebook. I'm on Hubzilla which is even more powerful than Friendica and still older than Mastodon. And they can all communicate with Mastodon.
Them: What... WTF... NOOOOO I DON'T WANT ANY OF THAT I WANT MY FEDIVERSE TO BE ONLY MASTODON AND NICE AND COZY AND CUDDLY AND I DON'T WANT NOTHING ELSE IN MY BELOVED FEDIVERSE MAKE IT GO AWAY I WANT MY MASTODON-ONLY FEDIVERSE BACK NOOOOOOOO THIS IS TOO MUCH SOMEONE PLEASE FEDIBLOCK EVERYTHING THAT ISN'T MASTODON
End of demonstration.
I'm not even kidding, I've read a story about someone from the "Fediverse = Mastodon" crowd who actually blocked a Friendica user for telling them that the Fediverse is not just Mastodon and for allegedly "intruding" into their timeline with some black hacking magic or something.
Some people don't want there to be anything else in the Fediverse than Mastodon.
free software for distributed social networks
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Jupiter Rowland
2023-03-18 10:55:13
Jupiter Rowland
in reply to • • •@Christopher As I've said, there are many Mastodon users who have joined during the big migration in November who are still blissfully unaware that the Fediverse is more than Mastodon. You'll first have to tell them that.
Then they'll have to accept it.
Then you'll have to get into their heads that "Fediverse" means that everything connects with everything, and they can interact with Friendica or Lemmy from their Mastodon accounts. It sounds like black magic. I mean, it's the same as following someone on Facebook or Reddit while you're on Twitter yourself.
Also, many of those who joined Mastodon in late 2022 are so happy and giddy about it that they can't for the lives of them imagine that something else in the Fediverse could possibly have any advantage over Mastodon.
I've had someone tell me that everything that isn't Mastodon has to suck because only Mastodon is "feature-complete". I could have replied to him by pitting Mastodon against Hubzilla in f
... show more@Christopher As I've said, there are many Mastodon users who have joined during the big migration in November who are still blissfully unaware that the Fediverse is more than Mastodon. You'll first have to tell them that.
Then they'll have to accept it.
Then you'll have to get into their heads that "Fediverse" means that everything connects with everything, and they can interact with Friendica or Lemmy from their Mastodon accounts. It sounds like black magic. I mean, it's the same as following someone on Facebook or Reddit while you're on Twitter yourself.
Also, many of those who joined Mastodon in late 2022 are so happy and giddy about it that they can't for the lives of them imagine that something else in the Fediverse could possibly have any advantage over Mastodon.
I've had someone tell me that everything that isn't Mastodon has to suck because only Mastodon is "feature-complete". I could have replied to him by pitting Mastodon against Hubzilla in features and listing up dozens of features that Hubzilla has that Mastodon doesn't while also stating that there's almost nothing that Mastodon has that Hubzilla doesn't. But I didn't.
Also, I think that whoever invented Guppe knew neither Lemmy nor Friendica nor Hubzilla at that point nor any of the other "Reddit clone" endeavours that were pretty much stillborn (Lotide, anyone?).
This is why it's dangerous to build "Fediverse projects" when you still think the Fediverse is only Mastodon.
https://kitchenparty.online/users/01GNMTYTSFMTM7SXADPT4MEAFP
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •Yeah, that's why I said that telling them hasn't been a super effective strategy. I've been blue in the face for five months now excitedly informing users that things they want are right there, if they just take a step in that direction.
It's clearly not how people want to come to the information. They don't need to be told or shown from strangers they encounter in a new land. They need to find it through some other channels.
Bruce G_NS
in reply to Jupiter Rowland • • •eshep likes this.
Jupiter Rowland
in reply to Bruce G_NS • • •@Bruce G_NS To you, it doesn't matter. I've understood that long ago.
Still, there are people who go completely and utterly stark raving bat-shit insane over there being something else in their nice and cosy Fediverse than nice and cosy Mastodon.
Luckily, you are none of these people. Also, you know that the Fediverse is more than Mastodon. And you acknowledge that.
Jupiter Rowland
in reply to • • •@Christopher I guess my channel has accidentally become one of them. Especially this post. Count the likes. Not bad for Hubzilla.
Jupiter Rowland
@Christopher I guess my channel has accidentally become one of them. Especially this post. Count the likes. Not bad for Hubzilla.
Jupiter Rowland
2023-03-15 17:30:41
eshep
in reply to Bruce G_NS • • •@Bruce G_NS, @Jupiter Rowland, the fact that some tools are objectively ""better"" than others only makes a difference to the user who wants that betteryness. The best thing about the Fediverse is that choice we all have to use the interface that suits our needs, be it an interface that already exists or one that has yet to be realized.
The part of this that's a problem is when new folks join Mastadon, find the interface doesn't work for them, and when they ask for assistance or clarification, they're told "that's just the way it is" instead of "here's a few other ways you could enjoy the Fediverse". Simply because the person they asked only knows the word Mastadon and has no idea what a fediverse is. The root of it all is the Fediverse being advertised as Mastadon instead of Mastadon being advertised as a way to interact with people in the Fediverse.
eshep
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