Bad news for anthropic stans: your fav tech company is doing target selection for illegal US/Israeli imperial wars. archive.ph/cX0GH
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The question is not whether you can create software using LLMs - you can (most software is just boring CRUD shit).
But you do pay a hefty price: In lowering quality (security issues, less maintainable), in skill decay in the people "guiding" the stochastic parrots, etc.
It's not "can 'AI's create software" but "are we willing to accept worse software running more and more of our lives?"
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@steltenpower Dat is wel degelijk Mathijs Bouman met een petje op voor het hek van het Witte Huis. Maar hij gebruikt zijn Mastodon-account eigenlijk niet.
Hij is wel actief op BlueSky: bsky.app/profile/mathijsbouman…
Das Financieele Dagblad, renommierteste Finanzzeitung der Niederlande, zur Öl- und Gaskrise: "die grünen Spinner haben recht"
"Es waren einfach die grünen Spinner und Nachhaltigkeits-Träumer, die Recht hatten. Wir hätten viel schneller elektrifizieren müssen, mit Sonne, Wind, Wasserstoff und Batterien, exakt wie sie es sagten. Dann wären die Niederlande jetzt weniger verletzlich gewesen."
Der Irankrieg zeigt: Wer wie die Bundesregierung wieder auf Gas und Öl als Energieträger setzt, gefährdet die Zukunft des LandesNils Kreimeier (capital.de)
Voor die groene gekkies moeten we wel heel lang terug.
1974: Eerste witkar-station in Amsterdam - oude filmbeelden - YouTube
youtube.com/watch?v=0gIs-HNA_r…
Witkar - Wikipedia
nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witkar
En 20 jaar later (1996):
General Motors EV1 - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_…
Maar lang voor die gekkies had je al heel serieuze elektrische taxi's.
ik plakte de oervorm er even onder.. 😎
De moderne versie zijn de deel scootertjes en fietsen.
qua 'witkar' was dat eigenlijk slechts een kopie van een eerdere kortstondige successtory.
New York’s Electric Taxis in 1895 - YouTube
youtube.com/watch?v=uUItSK-ez8…
Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.Great Big Story (YouTube)
@isisevrinen
Dat is ook een van de dingen die soms lastig zijn.
Dat we nu heel goeie zonnepanelen hebben en uitstekende accu's krijgen is vooral zangen aan de mogelijkheid dat beide losgekoppeld werden en onafhankelijk konden innoveren. (Eerst panelen, gevolgd door accu's)
Saldering maakte die grote versnelling mogelijk.
(T gebrek aan noodzakelijke exit strategie aan het eind maakt dat we nu on 'deze' situatie zitten.. 🙈)
@isisevrinen
Vreselijk... De man had zo ontzettend gelijk!
Maar dit en ook wel een paar andere 'projecten' hebben me zo laten zien dat partijen echt een flinke kwaliteitsslag moeten maken om de steeds complexere problemen aan te kunnen.
Maar ja ... Dat is iets wat de TK voor zichzelf moet regelen. Zij gaan daar zelf over.
Dit is wel wat kort door de bocht. Ja, we hadden minder afhankelijk van fossiele brandstoffen kunnen zijn. Echter, windmolens zijn van staal en de groene gekkies willen ook van Tata Steel af, dus daar hebben we een afhankelijkheid. Zonnepanelen komen vrijwel allemaal uit China. En voor elektrificatie zijn we zwaar van koper afhankelijk. Ook daarvoor zijn we sterk afhankelijk van niet Europese landen.
Dit artikel leest toch meer als opportunisme van de groene gekkies.
@elziax @mathijsbouman Het is heel eenvoudig. De adviezen uit gedegen rapporten aan de overheid zijn bijna altijd uitstekend.
Maar als dat niet in het straatje past van gevestigde belangen komt er een industrielobby op gang die een gewillig oor bij de VVD vindt.
En dan gaat het niet door.
Daarom, stem niet op de VVD maar op iets ter linkerzijde ervan. CDA is een twijfelgeval, maar daar kan je nog met 'rentmeesterschap' argumenten aankloppen.
Geen Europese ICE! Help ons massadeportaties te stoppen.
We bouwen 100.000 stemmen op tegen massadeportaties in Europa. Teken nu. Laten we dit samen stoppen!
Binnen een paar dagen stemt het Europese Parlement over een wet die massadeportaties invoeren. Het is een kopietje van de ellende die we in de VS zien.
Al meer dan 100.000 mensen tekenden deze petitie.
Voeg je stem toe!
action.wemove.eu/sign/2025-12-…
De EU kan zomaar Trumpiaanse regels aannemen waarmee agenten mensen thuis kunnen oppakken en uitzetten naar landen waar ze nog nooit zijn geweest. Als we ons nu niet uitspreken, kan dat zomaar het nieuwe normaal worden. Teken de petitie!WeMove Europe
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Die fuckers in Den Haag willen stoppen met de rioolwatermetingen voor covid, en álle andere pandemievoorbereidingen in de vuilbak flikkeren.
Hoe moet ik me dan nog beschermen, als zeer kwetsbaar persoon voor long covid, hufters?
En na het PAIS protest stond je nog te ouwehoeren dat je het zo erg vond voor ons??
Godverdomme, woest ben ik. Al zes jaar leef ik grotendeels in isolatie doordat wij chronisch zieken volkomen aan ons lot zijn overgelaten. En nu neem je zelfs de mogelijkheid weg waarmee we onszelf nog enigszins kunnen beschermen.
Waardoor we levenslang in volledige isolatie moeten!
En dat doe je omdat je niet herinnerd wil worden aan die paar weken dat je zelf even in isolatie moest tijdens de lockdown, want daar ben je zo door "getraumatiseerd"...
Fuck you!!
En dan waagt @De Volkskrant het ook nog om dit te vragen:
"Misschien is de gedachte wel: bij corona hadden we die organisatie ook niet van tevoren en we zijn er toch goed doorheen gekomen, het viel uiteindelijk allemaal wel mee."
> 50.000 doden! 500.000 long covid patiënten!
'VIEL ALLEMAAL WEL MEE??'
Ik zou je verdomme bijna de hel van long covid en de vogelgriep toewensen. Van Jetten tot Volkskrant, je bent verantwoordelijk en ooit zul je die verantwoordelijkheid moeten dragen 💀
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Zo eens!
Gaandeweg de dag ga ik trouwens steeds meer denken dat de vragensteller het nog bij het goede eind heeft ook, dat dat dus inderdaad de gedachte erachter is. Anders doe je dit toch niet!
"En na het PAIS protest stond je nog te ouwehoeren dat je het zo erg vond voor ons??"
Dit! ⬆️ Het is zo schaamteloos inhoudsloos en doorzichtig allemaal, die zogenaamde empathie.
En jemig, wat hebben die zg wappies gewonnen zeg.
😂 😂 😂
We just had a blizzard in the Northeast #USA and in #NYC a news reporter just wanted some empty chatter about the weather
But her interview subject had other ideas
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ᴮᵉⁿ ᴿᵒʸᶜᵉVOTE IN THE PRIMARIES, HTPC NZ, Mother Bones, The Lady (La Donna), hypebot, diana 🏳️⚧️🦋🌱, trending_bot, Linda Sgoluppi Artist, Puurava, Cory Doctorow, txerren 🇵🇸, Jupiter Sigh, Anna Spanner 👩🏫🇪🇺🧪, France Augier (fr|en) 🇵🇸🇺🇦☭🏴, Ку 🇧🇬🇪🇺, Disisdeguey🔻PalestineAction🇵🇸, Jay, iwein, David Chisnall (*Now with 50% more sarcasm!*), orlissenberg, Ciara, nini, Pratik Patel, Eugen Rochko, António Manuel Dias, Grymt, Orrock LXXXVI XLVII, Wilhelm, PeanutDust, Debbie Goldsmith 🏳️⚧️♾️🇺🇦, Kaysee Colorado, Aral Balkan and Head·word /ˈhedˌwɜː(ɹ)d/ n. reshared this.
much better exchange than that

@snowfall "why aren't the Epstein files being talked about more by the media?"
Because the people who own the media are in the files. #EpsteinClass
She pulled up to the wrong city with that bullshit. She would’ve gotten the slop shit she wanted upstate. Thank you, Conner, for representing and not falling for the okie-doke.
as someone who lived in brooklyn, then midtown manhattan, then the hudson valley, and now between the finger lakes and rochester ny, i don't know why you have a problem with what Eve said
i don't. i know what they're talking about
there is no need to get reflexively angry at Eve just because they didn't carve out special terms and conditions for the residents of Plattsburgh or Oswego 😂
it's a social media post not a legal document
look for intent and calm the fuck down
sure
turn on cc here
youtube.com/live/wI9pRBWumA4?t…
Live, non-stop coverage as blizzard-like conditions continue across the Tri-State area. A state of emergency remains in effect as heavy snow and gusty winds ...NBC New York (YouTube)
Sensitive content
i don't know. good microphones?
it's real though:
youtube.com/live/wI9pRBWumA4?t…
Live, non-stop coverage as blizzard-like conditions continue across the Tri-State area. A state of emergency remains in effect as heavy snow and gusty winds ...NBC New York (YouTube)
it's just so perfect
in most every other situation, the guy who wants to horn in with his own topic is just annoying
except on plastic tv, and with his chosen topic, it's {chef's kiss}
Hacktivists tried to find a workaround to Discord’s age-verification software, Persona. Instead, they found its frontend exposed to the open internet, and that was just the beginning.
therage.co/persona-age-verific…
Three hacktivists tried to find a workaround to Discord’s age-verification software. Instead, they found its frontend exposed to the open internet.L0la L33tz (The Rage)
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There is a security researcher called Celeste, just like meee! Weirdly enough, that makes me happy 
"""
Persona’s exposed code compares your selfie to watchlist photos using facial recognition, screens you against 14 categories of adverse media from mentions of terrorism to espionage, and tags reports with codenames from active intelligence programs consisting of public-private partnerships to combat online child exploitative material, cannabis trafficking, fentanyl trafficking, romance fraud, money laundering, and illegal wildlife trade.
Once a user verifies their identity with Persona, the software performs 269 distinct verification checks and scours the internet and government sources for potential matches...
"""
So to keep kids safe from online predators, we're willing to *horribly* invade their privacy and sell all their data to predators? I see the system is working as intended 😮💨
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@alice i juste read and article by @Ivovanwilligen about persona and if he doesn't know about all this well now he does !
His article : thelocalstack.eu/posts/linkedi…
Ah yes, "let us protect children by scanning their faces". What could possibly be wrong??? 🤡
“the software ‘flags you as a “suspicious entity” based on your face alone’ …”
Yay! Phrenology 2.0!
and meanwhile the Australian government is claiming credit for protecting children by standing up to social media companies to force them to use this kind of tech.
I’m sure the pressure is in the opposite direction.
@ollicle Yep. It's brilliant from a certain perspective. Horrifying, sinister, but with a certain genius.
The tech firms get to say "Oh, no, the horrible government is making us do this. Oh well. Now give us your identity documents."
The governments get to give the appearance of responding to (genuinely) grieving parents, and say "we're protecting the children" which is game over for any alternative voice. All the while receiving funding (directly or indirectly) from the tech firms that created the problem or the supposed solution, or their fellow travellers.
And parents get to believe their children's safety is taken care of.
This level of centralisation of data is so so dangerous. Putting all our eggs in one basket digitally makes for a very inviting target, but this sort of infrastructure also concentrates power.
Knowledge is power, and this level of control can easily calcify our political systems and eat away at democracy.
Hey, maybe don’t verify yourself on LinkedIn. What an absolute shitshow: #privacy #linkedin #surveillancecapitalism https://thelocalstack.eu/posts/linkedin-identity-verification-privacy/Brian Sletten (Mastodon)
if something is free, never forget to ask who pays for it, who benefits?
I personally think it's great, though, that there are also people striving _for_ a better internet. That gives me hope. 🙂
One of the many reasons to be against #ageverification software
It gives the wrong people & companies tons of data, often #biometric ones
Therefore we transfers #power exactly the wrong people & #corporations
And as we can know latest since #Edwardsnowden companies do share data with governments
The cornerstone of the #chinese #surveillance #state is #realnameregistration
Don't give #biometrics to #evilcorp, especially not for cheap thrills
Do not hand data to #fascists
just don't use #discord and refuse to #ID as a matter of principle!
infosec.space/@kkarhan/1161142…
@deborahh@cosocial.ca @evacide@hachyderm.io That's why *"#KYC IS THE ILLICIT ACTIVITY!"* - I mean, there's a [*trivial bypass*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LsF4FF6gO4) but #Discord itself is garbage!Kevin Karhan :verified: (Infosec.Space)
Cue absolutely zero consequences in 3… 2… 1…
The state board of elections found Musk’s PAC sent prefilled ballot applications. Well, well, well.Turns Out There Was Voter Fraud in Georgia—by Elon Musk
newrepublic.com/post/206857/ge…#BankruptTesla #TeslaTakedown #CancelStarlink #BoycottSpaceX #ElonMusk #DOGE #Swastikars #USPol
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Yesterday Cory Doctorow argued that refusal to use LLMs was mere "neoliberal purity culture". I think his argument is a strawman, doesn't align with his own actions and delegitimizes important political actions we need to make in order to build a better cyberphysical world.
EDIT: Diskussions under this are fine, but I do not want this to turn into an ad hominem attack to Cory. Be fucking respectful
tante.cc/2026/02/20/acting-eth…
Live is complicated. Regardless of what your beliefs or politics or ethics are, the way that we set up our society and economy will often force you to act against them: You might not want to fly somewhere but your employer will not accept another mod…tante (Smashing Frames)
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@twifkak @simonzerafa
parsing a doc uses as much juice as streaming a Youtube video and less juice than performing a gnarly transform on a hi-rez in the Gimp.
I measured.
AI is asbestos in the walls of our tech society, stuffed there by monopolists run amok. A serious fight against it must strike at its rootsCory Doctorow (the Guardian)
@pluralistic @FediThing
Unless you consider stolen intellectual property (and ongoing copyright violations) a harm, a deprivation, &c.
But your general analogy against "fruit of the poison tree" morality would seem to also apply in the case of slavery -- in my hypothetical, the person didn't enslave anyone. They just inherited a slave from someone who did. That is indeed "fruit of a poisoned tree", even if they just continued an existing enslavement.
We have a real world recent example -- the cell lines stolen from Henrietta Lacks. Do you dismiss any moral concerns about using her cell line without consent as a neo-liberal moral purity trap?
> LLMs are based on extraction, exploitation and subjugation
So is torrenting. This is a very capitalist argument, coming from someone that self-identifies as a communist, that one deserves to reap the rewards of them adding value to humanity through some form of gatekeeping and is entitled to a reward from such gatekeeping. You're literally arguing on the side of Elsevier and JSTOR against Aaron Swartz
What does it matter if human knowledge is available as a book or an LLM? The important part is that all of humanity has access to it.
> Omelas is an almost perfect city. Rich, democratic, pleasant. But it only works by having one small child in perpetual torment.
Walking away from Omelas doesn't stop that child's perpetual torment. Your choice is merely ignorance and cowardice in front of injustice. Choosing to stay in Omelas and poison its democratic system to lead to its downfall is the arguably the more moral option. Let's not even get into the argument about how Germany made the Eurozone its Omelas at the expense of deficit-prone southern Europe, and how you should leave Germany by your argument.
> If everything is somehow “free and open” then we have won.
your moral choice to not use LLMs is the same as abandoning Omelas and the eternally tormented child, it serves as nothing but intellectual onanism. Distilling GPT 5, Opus 4.6, commoditising the petaflop (see George Hotz), deploying efficient models on Huawei chips is the same as causing rot in Omelas from the inside, causing the billions invested into AI to be worthless, tearing down the system that is perpetually tormenting that child. It is the only way forward.
Cory was right to label this "neolib purity testing", because 1) it sides with capital (see above point re: torrenting), 2) it tries to don the mantel of dialectical materialism, while viewing this issue through a lens of "individualist action" and static morality and 3) It endlessly criticises power instead of aiming to claim and wield it for good.
> AI bubble bursts
For about ~30k I can run deepseek on a rig in my apartment, forever. That's pennies for a startup. How do you envision this bubble bursting such that LLMs are gone?
So Cory Doctorow has hopped on the GenAI/LLM train, mmm?
Ok. ok.
So human individuals are also subject to enshitification? OMGods!! Who knew? 🙄
@mastodonmigration nope nope nope nope stop with the slopologism
Using LLMs to search the universe for dark matter using survey telescopic data or to identify drug efficacy using anonymized public health records is simply using the latest technology for good purpose.
that’s the broader field of machine learning. not LLMs
LLMs are by and large unethical cognitive decline inducing generators of soulless slop.
@jaredwhite @dhd6 @simonzerafa You're right, that would be a silly thing to say.
Good thing I didn't say it.
@pluralistic @ianbetteridge @FediThing
It's still profit loss damage curable by income transfer if the illegally acquired data was used to create that profit. Dataset prominence should provide the percentage of profits and prominence is data size but also inference casualty. The primary literature should not be able to be diluted with free intellectual property.
I don't know if any of this is actual case law and I'm not a lawyer.
@pluralistic @dhd6 @simonzerafa Good grief, these ad hoc rationalizations are absurd and you know it.
FYI, rockets are enormously environmentally destructive (fuel, pollution, noise, etc.). The planet would be better off with as few rockets launching as possible.
Saying an LLM is OK because some completely other "good" technology was invented by evil people is a *non argument*.
@pluralistic @ianbetteridge @FediThing “Mathematical analysis” is doing a lot of work here. It could mean gathering meaningless statistics. Or it could mean capturing the qualities (deviations from the average) that make a particular work of art (or author) special, creative, surprising—for use in simulacra.
I think that's harmful, to the culture as a whole, if not to the artworks and artists getting regurgitated.
I have to assume Cory's been bought by Big LLM.
I don't give a shit really but it's funny he's enraged his fans who think he's super smart and a great sci fi writer when he's really only good at fluffing himself. At least Gaiman was a genuinely good writer - something Doctorow only dreams of. (I despise Gaiman and will not read or watch any of his stuff because he's a shit human being.)
@bjn @ianbetteridge @FediThing
Once again, you're talking about *using* a model, not training a model.
Also "IP theft" isn't a thing. Perhaps you mean copyright infringement?
@gleick @ianbetteridge @FediThing
Let's stipulate to that (I don't agree, as it happens, but that's OK). It's still not a copyright infringement to enumerate and analyze the elements of a copyrighted work.
For the record, I think AI art is bad and neither consume nor make it.
@bjn @ianbetteridge @FediThing it is a bedrock of copyright law that devices 'capable of sustaining a substantial non-infringing use' are lawful. Decided in 1984 (SCOTUS/Betamax) and repeatedly upheld.
It is categorically untrue that merely because a model's output can infringe copyright that the model is therefore illegal.
There's not much that's truly settled in American limitations and exceptions, but this is.
So, what I feel like is happening here, is:
1. Some people are making a comprehensive argument against the use of LLMs, well-supported on all sides.
2. This metastasizes into a yelling match about "AI", with fuzzy boundaries and highly emotionally charged language, with a lot of participants who aren't necessarily experts or do not have the time to make a careful argument.
3. Cory picks a fight with this *real* but not-particularly-robust position, skipping stronger counterarguments.
Which "couple million people" suffer harm when I run a model ON MY LAPTOP?
Anyone who's hosting a website, and is getting hammered by the bots that seek content to train the models on. Those of us are the ones who continue getting hurt.
Whether you run it locally or not, makes little difference. The models were trained, and training very likely involved scraping, and that continues to be a problem to this day. Not because of ethical concerns, but technical ones: a constant 100req/sec 24/7, with over 2.5k req/sec waves may sound little in this day and age, but at around 2.5k req/sec (sustained for about a week!), my cheap VPS's two vCPUs are bogged down trying to deal with all the TLS handshakes, let alone serving anything.
That is a cost many seem to forget. It costs bandwidth, CPU, and human effort to keep things online under the crawler DDoS - which often will require cold, hard cash too, to survive.
Ask Codeberg or LWN how they fare under crawler load, and imagine someone who just wants to have their stuff online having to deal with similar abuse.
That is the suffering you enable when using any LLM model, even locally.
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@Ghostrunner @Cory Doctorow @Colman Reilly @FediThing @tante
You had a higher opinion of him, but not of yourself? And yet you wonder why he's popular.
I'm not a fan of all the shit throwing in this thread, but if you participate, you're going to get some on you.
@pluralistic @ianbetteridge @FediThing I'm not claiming that's copyright infringement. Even if one respects the general framework of copyright, which I know you don’t, it seems hopeless to apply it to this AI mess.
But there is a kind of theft here. Not that it's actionable or measurable. But it’s nontrivial. It's related to questions of impersonation. It's an assault on individuality. Whatever your reasons for thinking AI art is bad (I have some sense), it's related to that, too.
I think the sense of “theft” that creators feel is directly caused by the fact that the AI industry (as it stands today) is a Ponzi scheme which is fundamentally built on remixing creators’ works and devaluing human labor. I have a feeling that most creators will not feel the same kind of outrage if an educational institution created the same technology for academic use, e.g. to generate insights into online culture and psychology.
In short, the GRIFT (i.e. the particular application of the technology) is the source of the feeling of theft, not the technology itself. I think the tech itself has value when used ethically.
FWIW I agree with Cory here that copyright is the *wrong* framework to use for criticizing AI, because for every case where copyright helps the individual creator, there are hundreds of cases where it helps incumbent megacorporations more.
#ai
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@pluralistic
The argument was "without the consent of the creators of said works." And you know that.
Don't be just another debate bro. Please.
@pluralistic
No, because dictionnaries are about language which is a shared common, encyclopedias are about knowledge, which is a shared common, and bibliohraphies are a list of works, not a derivative.
Knowledge, language and a list of works cannot be copyrighted. You can use language, knowledge, words from the dictionary. You can quote an encyclopedia when refering to the source. None of that is even relevant to this discussion.
@Dave Rahardja @Cory Doctorow @tante @FediThing @James Gleick @Ian Betteridge
I think there's a couple of aspects to the "theft":
* the theft of material: they're trained on copyrighted material
* the theft of jobs: AI is being used to replace artists/writers/coders; it's the same thing that upset the Luddites
* the theft of style: not only does AI "learn" from the works of others, it can emulate it. On demand. Some artists have very unique, personal styles that are suddenly not their own anymore.
@mcv @pluralistic @FediThing @gleick @ianbetteridge Again, the concept of a technology that is “trained” by analyzing copyrighted material is not inherently bad. It’s the way that it is *developed and used* that could be morally questionable.
I bet most creators don’t mind people using AI technology to analyze and remix their works for academic or historical research, or even for search. What they mind is their use to power a Ponzi scheme that destroys human worth.
I think it is the case that many people who oppose the use of LLMs do so in a way which follows the pattern of purity culture -- in the particular way they are judgmental towards everyone who uses them
... however opposing the use of LLMs can still is a very reasonable moral act.
I think this plays out in this way because, at least in the USA, so much of people's idea of how to do morality is based in a certain kind of protestant Christianity
@pluralistic You should read the top-of-thread link. It lays out in detail the author's disagreements with you in a respectful manor.
Maybe you'll call it incoherent because you don't want to listen to accusations of going against your own principles, noone does. But I would disagree.
@pluralistic
> untrue that merely because a model's output can infringe copyright that the model is therefore illegal.
Mhmmm naaah overfitting and memorization are very much a thing, especially in the case of LLM where they've completely given up on controlling data leaks, and where memorization has been demonstrated rather unambiguously e.g. with the suitesparse example...
Not to imply that "illegal" is bad ofc, or that copyright justifiable
@pluralistic
> IPREG affirming that training a model doesn't infringe.
What we now take the party line serious?
@pluralistic @bjn @ianbetteridge @FediThing
I’d argue that It’s a bit more nuanced. Training and inference are two separate stages with their own rules.
For non profit, academic research, excerpts are allowed to be collected, but not the whole work. You still can’t circumvent DRM either.
Llama might be argued is non profit, but lifting whole works to train on still isn’t allowed.
Dictionaries reference the sources they use for examples in the entries themselves.
LLMs lose the references at training time.
You've got this dead wrong.
I've struggled for a while to reconcile people's justified outrage at the AI bubble's incalculably harmful unsustainability with the need to deny that even the most banal utility of its outputs could ever possibly have merit.
Credit to @pluralistic for really articulating why I find the "Not Even Once" crowd to be largely missing the point, even if we all agree that the "AI True Believers" are ghoulish monsters.
So this is some kind of spell-checker, which is already in LibreOffice? I'm not sure why I would use that instead.
I use offline AI, esp for visual effects, subtitles, fixing dialogue errors, etc. There are "deep fake technologies" useful for mocap, camera tracking, and such other tedious works. They don't use prompts, and don't generate art, and are trained on your own inputs.
Perhaps we need a new name to differentiate it from the online genAI tech.
@dhd6 @pluralistic @simonzerafa IMHO this is already going down the wrong path.
If you follow anything I write or boost, you'll quickly note that I'm very vocal against AI. But that is a shorthand; my actual position is that I'm fine with the *tech*, strongly dislike the *waste* (where applicable), but my actual complaint is that the AI bubble is literally a fascist project.
Outside of FOMO, every reason people use or promote AI based things in this bubble is designed to...
@dhd6 @pluralistic @simonzerafa ... disenfranchise people, by partially replacing them with a machine that imitates their work. And unlike people, machines can be owned.
Their output functions like a natural resource (except it's not natural), and there is insurmountable historic precedent that this promotes tyrannies. The TL;DR of it being that when you can mine natural resources, you are less reliant on a fed, educated, healthy, mobile population - so public spending becomes a waste.
@dhd6 @pluralistic @simonzerafa The problem isn't ingesting text from the web. The problem isn't using this to generate new text, or spell check existing text.
The problem is that capitalist logic demands that this is used to move "value" from the general population to property oligarchs own. Marx would have started talking about labour here.
That this promotes fascism is certainly the effect, and when you look at those who stand to win, probably also the reason.
@dhd6 @simonzerafa So, yes, whether something is or isn't open plays into that, and I get the complaint.
But at the same time, it's a distraction.
The general position @pluralistic holds in the blog post is very much in line with distinguishing between the tech and the bubble.
Personally, I feel like responding to that with "yeah, but it's not good enough" is a very good example of the kind of Leftist purity culture that is so, so effective at hindering collaboration.
@pluralistic @elle @dhd6 @simonzerafa I beg to differ. Demand is a powerful and legit tool of people responding to corporate behavior. Choosing a different product because you dislike a maker's conduct is nought but the invisible hand of the market slapping that maker for their conduct. Provenience does matter.
Smearing choice of provenience as wilful purism would be the perfect argument for any company to disregard social or ethical standards, constituting a right to demand for the 'best' offer. Which would take us into the field of classic objectivism, and be in itself as willful and naive as the purism it accuses consumers of.
@pluralistic After reading so many comments, it is pretty clear who here would be opposing the creation of Napster and torrenting and be defending RIAA... They are also clearly very much against Internet Archive, shadow libraries, etc, simply because they can't take any disagreement.
Who knew running a local LLM, that uses the same energy as watching a youtube video, to spellcheck your own work would bring out such a mob.
@sibrosan this reminds me of Ship of Theseus as in every time one outsources the art to a tool there will become a point where one does not have the craft of the art anymore.
In this case, the art of grammar checking and the tool being a LLM. By constantly using a LLM to do the grammar checking, one is replacing the art of grammar checking slowly through time to the point that nothing on the original art of grammar checking is equivalent to the current version.
@pluralistic @correl @skyfaller @FediThing @tante massive oversimplification. This is the wording of a policy I support…. It… disagrees….
“Employees must not enter personal information, confidential information, or intellectual property into any Artificial Intelligence Tool, including approved tools, as doing so may expose …… to privacy breaches, legal and security risks, or loss of control over institutional data.”
Life is complicated. Regardless of what your beliefs or politics or ethics are, the way that we set up our society and economy will often force you to act against them: You might not want to fly somewhere but your employer will not accept another mod…tante (Smashing Frames)
Pluralistic: Six Years of Pluralistic (19 Feb 2026)Cory Doctorow (Pluralistic: Daily links from Cory Doctorow)
> Again, it twists the argument in the way that the AI corporations like to do it as well: Search engines scour the web so AI companies should be allowed the same. It’s the same technology!
Just to add to your argument, there is another key difference between scraping for searching and scraping for LLMs.
Scraping for searching does have the concept of consent (if imperfect): it's opt-out, you can always say that you don't consent to your website (wholly or in parts) be scraped (by specific search engines or all of them), in your `robots.txt` controlled by you, and your decision will be respected. And this works also for revoking previous implicitly (or even explicitly) given consent.
As far as I'm aware no LLM honors `robots.txt`, and even if they would, they still don't and cannot offer any mechanism for consent revocation.
The problem with AI is not primarily with tech itself, but human traits of laziness, greed and ignoring unpriced externalities for short-sighted personal gains. Those of course exist even without AI, but AI allows for their damage to be multiplied many thousandfold which upgrades it from minor annoyance to existential crisis.
And the problem with Cory saying he's preferring using his AI is not exact cost of him using AI model (which is tiny), it is NORMALIZING 1/3
I agree with you, I feel the same way and I have not been published.
I’m really enjoying The Three Ages of Water. I slowed down my read to really enjoy your writing and the amazing breadth of knowledge in it.
A must read. The government's immigration proposals are immoral, expensive (falls in immigration already damaging our economy) and will not achieve the stated aims.
The government's immigration plans: a dog’s dinner of half-conceived policy, Reform rhetoric, mean-spirited sentiment, and profound intellectual muddle iandunt.substack.com/p/can-we-ext...Can we extract the Reform nonsense from Labour?
These immigration proposals are obscene, but the government can be forced to think again.Ian Dunt (Striking 13)
People should be able to write software for Android, and distribute it outside Google's Play store, without having to:
* pay Google
* give government ID to Google
* agree to Google terms and conditions
People should be able to install the software they want on their phone, from sources other than Google's Play store, without having to jump through Google-imposed hoops.
e.g. via F-Droid.
We've got until September this year to stop Google squeezing the open Android ecosystem.
Advocating for Android as a free, open platform for everyone to build apps on.keepandroidopen.org
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GrapheneOS discussion forumGrapheneOS Discussion Forum
@j2 @illumniscate Gaël Duval has extensively spread misinformation about GrapheneOS and /e/ to falsely market his products for his for-profit company. He has engaged in extensive libel and harassment towards our team. Here's an example of him linking to harassment content based on fabrications on a blatant neo-nazi conspiracy website, which he has done repeatedly:
archive.is/SWXPJ
archive.is/n4yTO
Please don't mention him in replies to us or otherwise involve him.
@j2 @GrapheneOS @illumniscate @gael Please note that Murena is a scam, this is not an honest project and it's dangerous to use it.
discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134…
Old blog by a LineageOS dev, the issues with /e/a are not news : ewwlo.void.partidopirata.com.a…
In this discussion on Hacker News, a user who has used Murena products confirms that /e/OS completely breaks Android's security model, signed with Google's test keys with an unlocked bootloader that cannot be locked, which would have been pointless since these test keys are not intended for production. Of course, users duped by Murena's misleading marketing will claim that this is not important and assert that the GrapheneOS project is toxic, but correcting misinformation has never been toxic behavior.
There are many other problems with /e/. Gael Duval is a scammer, and he, his team, and his community are involved in spreading misinformation about GrapheneOS and its users. In fact, the people in this Hacker News thread who are attacking GrapheneOS for things it doesn't do are users of /e/.
I remember when Apple launched the Apple Store and how I felt about it:
“Wait, what?!: do they own my device and my relationship with the people that make the software?!”
“Didn’t I pay for this thing?”
During the last five years, I spent a fairly significant amount of time developing an android app. I got a developer account and had an alpha release on the play store.
Unfortunately, personal circumstances took my focus away from it for some time, and by the time I got back to it, my account had been deleted after I hadn't responded to one of their requests.
I found the sign up process unpleasant and intrusive, so the idea of going through it again is not appealing. Naturally, I thought about putting my app on another store. The idea of that company being in control of what I can provide to other people to run on their devices was enough to make me quit. I won't be releasing my work as long as this restriction is being held over us.
I should add: even having said all that, I can at least acknowledge that there is a case for IDs being checked before permitting apps to ship via their own store. I wish it wasn't the same company that's harvesting so much other personal data, but I do think it is preferable that apps are not published with no verified responsible person.
Once again, I'd be a lot more comfortable if identity verification could be done by a provider of my choice with only a token being passed to the store.
Not saying i agree with Google. But how is the OS community going to fight the forces of evil trying to hijack our code?
Between malware labs, ai slop and slop powered malware labs, i am worried. The idea of making sure real accountable humans are writing honest code seems appealing....
@steve Compared to a wild west anything goes lord of the flies app repo? Probably.
I yearn for the day when OSS can provide a trustworthy app ecosystem that can also let devs earn a living - something easy and consolidated yet safe from enshitification. But in my 15 years as a linux user and oss enthusiast, things have just gotten more fragmented. Seems this is now androids future too...
Can Android be saved?
I say no--it's too late.
mastodon.social/@DaveMasonDotM…
Well, I've given up. Again. I think the Android ecosystem is entirely hopeless. Android may technically be 'open source', but in name only. Not in practice. Google and the hardware manufacturers have an iron grip that they'll never relinquish.Dave Mason (Mastodon)
I'm with you on this. The list of disabled ('cos I can't uninstall) Google apps on my phone is impressively long and includes play services and play store. I rely on F-Droid and, heaven help me APKpure - which has both the additional apps I can't get from F-Droid but also the worlds biggest collection of UX anti patterns for flinging ads in every conceivable way and at all times. Hate it but still prefer it to Google.
I hate this new proposal from Google but don't know what to do. Polite suggestions welcome 😇
There is nothing to "keep" open. Android was never open. They astroturfed an entire "open alliance" to... force all participants to push their apps and prohibit any and all forks. Since like 2008!
Android was never open, and at least they're finally honest about it.
Hopefully this will give #FOSS devs an incentive to shift app development to #mobilelinux if Google pushes ahead with this.
There ARE alternatives. I'm fully aware that they are, for the most part, not prime time ready, but they DO exist, and they've come a long way.
Maybe Google doing this will be a blessing in disguise, as it may just be what's needed to give #linuxphones a push.
I, for one, will switch to one form of mobile Linux or another, if Obtainium/F-Droid/IzzyOnDroid are killed off by this.
#obtainium #izzyondroid #postmarketos #ubuntutouch #ubports #sailfishos #phosh #gnomemobile #plasmamobile
@aerion Most Linux phone OSes have *far worse* security than Android.
Why not just use an AOSP-based OS like @GrapheneOS ? You get all of the upsides and very few to none of the downsides.
Even if you do not like Google's decisions, just ditching the engineering marvel that is AOSP does not make much sense at all.
fair, but a lot of people mean SailfishOS, Plasma, Ubuntu Touch when they refer to 'mobile Linux', like (I assume) the person I was reacting to.
I completely agree with your criticism of the security and privacy of the desktop Linux stack. I have been trying to shout that off the rooftops for years, but it's an uphill battle.
@danieldk
I would, if it wasn't for the fact that it only runs on Pixel phones.
That makes GrapheneOS even more of a niche operating system than the various mobile Linux options, as at least they run on more than one brand of hardware.
I very deliberately opted for a #Fairphone, a device that, apart from its ethical and sustainability benefits, can run several alternative OSs.
I severely dislike what Android has grown into: an increasingly more restrictive OS, with artificially imposed limitations that we would not accept in our desktop OSs. It has enabled hardware manufacturers to lock users into a purely profit driven perpetual upgrade cycle.
Why can I install Linux on 15+ years old hardware, with ease, and use it with modern software, yet I cannot do the same with a mobile phone or tablet? It fuels an ever growing pile of electronic waste.
What I ultimately want from my mobile devices is the exact same freedom I have on my desktop.
@aerion @danieldk Fairphones have very poor updates, privacy and security regardless of OS choice.
Fairphone doesn't provide proper updates from day 1. Fairphone 5 launched September 2023 and already has an end-of-life 5.4 kernel branch with no plan to upgrade. They weren't providing the kernel updates when they were available themselves but another OS could have done it and now it's impractical. Fairphone similarly doesn't keep the drivers, firmware and other components properly updated.
@aerion @danieldk GrapheneOS is a privacy and security hardened OS and has hardware requirements based on it. The only laptops/desktops meeting similar requirements are from Apple but it's unclear how much of the security features could be used elsewhere.
GrapheneOS and the Android Open Source Project are Linux distros. It's not glibc, systemd and GNOME which make it Linux. Most of the software you're calling Linux isn't even Linux specific but rather also works on FreeBSD, Hurd, etc.
@aerion @danieldk GrapheneOS has a large and rapidly growing userbase. Many people care about privacy and security who aren't misled into believing operating systems and hardware far worse at both than an iPhone are the answer.
Instead of supporting devices not meeting bare minimum privacy and security standards, we're working on proper devices meeting our full requirements with an OEM partner. They're one of the largest smartphone companies and are announcing our partnership next month.
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@GrapheneOS When geeks call for Linux on Mobile, do you believe "Android is Linux" to be a good-faith interpretation of what they mean?
Or should "Mobile Linux [running a mainline kernel without un-updateable vendor blobs]" be stated explicitly every time?
@xethos You're misinformed about Android and are making inaccurate statements about it. We're providing accurate information.
Android doesn't require any downstream kernel patches and works fine with mainline Linux kernels. All of the kernel drivers for Android are typically open source. The issue of SoC vendors and other hardware vendors providing software support in the form of proprietary libraries and services such as the ARM Mali GPU library isn't specific to Android or caused by Android.
@xethos The reason we replied is to avoid misconceptions. Your reply demonstrations you're misinformed about this yourself.
Android doesn't require any downstream kernel patches and works fine with mainline Linux kernels. All of the kernel drivers for Android are typically open source. The issue of SoC vendors and other hardware vendors providing software support in the form of proprietary libraries and services such as the ARM Mali GPU library isn't specific to Android or caused by Android.
@GrapheneOS @aerion a Linux distro has a different threat model than an Android "distro".
This is exactly what people mean when they say that GrapheneOS people (and in particular this [official?] account in this case) are quite aggressive disparaging all the other ecosystems.
Don't get me wrong, I liked GrapheneOS while I had it (I had to return the Pixel device I was using it on), but I don't like this behavior.
@mdione @aerion
> a Linux distro has a different threat model than an Android "distro".
Android distributions are Linux distributions. Desktop Linux distributions don't truly have a different threat model but provide much weaker privacy and security than the Android Open Source Project. They lack modern exploit protections, broad use of memory safe languages and a mandatory app sandbox. They only have very incomplete app sandboxing without a modern permission model available for it.
@GrapheneOS @aerion Linux "classical" distros come from a position where the soft available to them are pre curated by the companies and or communities building them, so the need for such things are no so pressing.
Andorid distros face applications that mostly not curated (except for 3rd party repos like f-droid, which are also pre curated by the communities), so they have other threat models. Personally, I find them too extreme, but currently is the best option on phones.
@mdione @aerion Neither open source or distribution packaging inherently provide privacy or security. It's not the case that people only use software from official repositories regardless.
Contrary to the common misconception, only using software from distribution repositories doesn't avoid trusting the upstream developers and doesn't address supply chain attacks. As an example, Debian shipped a backdoor in sshd after it was included in the xz project as part of the published sources.
@mdione @aerion A plain Android system without modification in a fork is the Android Open Source Project. It provides a much higher level of privacy and security. LineageOS reduces privacy and security compared to that baseline but is still far more private and secure than traditional desktop Linux distributions.
Stock Pixel OS and every other OEM variant of Android are forks of AOSP just like GrapheneOS. AOSP is the reference implementation of Android and is the upstream project for it.
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@mdione @aerion
> This is exactly what people mean when they say that GrapheneOS people (and in particular this [official?] account in this case) are quite aggressive disparaging all the other ecosystems.
We posted a reply addressing misconceptions with accurate information. There was nothing in any way aggressive about what we posted. You're making dishonest claims about GrapheneOS and our team as you've done previously. It's you who being aggressive and causing us to defend ourselves.
@GrapheneOS @aerion
> The desktop Linux software stack has atrocious privacy and security compared to the Android Open Source Project.
Why did you chose the word "atrocious"? You don't find that aggressive? Don't you find aggressive the toot you deleted? Not even a "sorry, that's not what I/we meant" or anything...
@GrapheneOS @aerion This is not the first time I read something you wrote and thought "why, having such an amazing project, do they write like this?".
I'm even following you, I like what you do!
Except the way you communicate.
@mdione @aerion
> Why did you chose the word "atrocious"?
It's an accurate and important description of the state of desktop operating systems. No one should be under the impression that a traditional desktop OS is providing strong privacy or security.
> You don't find that aggressive?
No, it's an accurate technical statement about Windows, desktop Linux distributions and to a lesser extent macOS compared to iOS and AOSP.
Meanwhile, you're disparaging us with dishonest claims...
Why does it seem so unheard of then to run AOSP, or newer versions of AOSP-based operating systems than would usually be possible due to eBPF to older devices, that PostmarketOS has mainlined?
A few years ago I got PostmarketOS with the main basics working okay with a very close to mainline kernel on an old unsupported uncommon msm8916 phone.
As an insecure novelty, it would be cool to run Android 16 on a phone that ended support on Android 6, yet such examples seem to not exist .
@GrapheneOS
According to the third party OS comparison, GrapheneOS is "deblobbed". Are there any intentions to replace proprietary userspace drivers with open alternatives, where they are available, like the Mali GPU driver library? (though Panfrost doesn't have the well tested and well documented android support like the mesa Adreno drivers)
With your new upcoming snapdragon devices, is there any intention to using turnip+zink, or turnip and freedreno instead of the proprietary drivers?
ALL
Trouble is: play services requiring apps, banking apps and the nonsense apps without which useless banking companies will not even let us use our own money. Sick and tired of this crap.
Examples: citi bank, hdfc, icici, stanci, hsbc, and the list goes on... These do not work without pathetic gps and stuff. Govs give a shit.
& yes, I am fully aware of microg and stuff, which still does not help. I am with team FD, Aurora and few others.
A nostr solution would be nice 👌
Give it a bit of time and @75d737c3 might be perfect for you and us
@GrapheneOS what I'm saying is that you express yourselves in a way that most people, as I heard, and me in particular, find aggressive, and as I understand, is what drives people away. I'm suggesting you to revise the way you communicate.
For instance, you say I'm lying. I don't think I lied. I just gave an opinion on the way you communicate.
I think you used words too negative like "atrocious". en.wiktionary.org/wiki/atrocio… You don't find that aggressive?
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Distributing either developer builds of apps or builds done by packagers for an app repository will still work fine for both Google Mobile Services operating systems and alternatives including GrapheneOS.
On the Google Mobile Services operating systems, there's going to a more complex warning flow for apps signed with keys not belonging to Google Play verified developers.
Here's a better post about it with more accurate info on what's changing and the impact:
blog.accrescent.app/posts/andr…
Google recently announced that starting next year, Android will require all apps to be registered by verified developers for users to install them on their devices, i.e.Logan Magee (Accrescent Blog)
It's hardly a crisis and won't result in any warnings being displayed for the vast majority of app distribution outside of the Play Store.
Not all open source app developers will want to perform the verification. Their apps can be signed and distributed by others willing to do it to avoid it being more complex to install the apps on Google Mobile Services devices.
It has no direct impact on GrapheneOS since we don't include GMS and don't give GMS apps privileged access when installed.
Just posted the following on Google's form. Please share and write:
docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAI…
"It is UNACCEPTABLE, monopolistic, intrusive & unnecessary. I only use apps from other stores and have disabled PlayServices & play store. I object to your data acquisitive practices and having bought my phone refuse your assertion that you should arbitrate my use of it through the lens of Google's commercial interest. Particularly your likely roadmap where you'll reject the software that keeps MY data and usage private and ad-free. If you refuse to acknowledge this need, I suspect I, and many like me will be moving to an Open OS. If the cost is that my bank app won't work, it'll be a pain but one I'll endure. "
Use this form to submit questions or feedback about the new Android developer verification requirements announced in August 2025. You can learn more about the requirements in the Android developer verification guide. Sign up for early access here.Google Docs
Maar intussen laten de VS en Nederland de Koerden keihard vallen, en weigert Nederland ook maar iets te doen aan de terreur die wij naar Syrië exporteerden.
Nederlandse IS-gevangenen voor de rechter in Irak, na overplaatsing uit Syrië door leger VS volkskrant.nl/buitenland/neder…Nederlandse IS-gevangenen voor de rechter in Irak, na overplaatsing uit Syrië door leger VS
In de Iraakse hoofdstad Bagdad zitten enkele Nederlandse IS-gevangenen vast. De Nederlanders maken deel uit van een groep van ruim vijfduizend IS-gevangenen die door het Amerikaanse leger zijn overgeplaatst uit buurland Syrië.Ana van Es (de Volkskrant)
The #FDroid website has a new banner on top to remind visitors that #Google did not change course and #Android will be locked-down in under 200 days.
If you care about the freedom to control your devices and care about the privacy of you data, please contact your representative and make your voice heard.
keepandroidopen.org/ (thanks @marcprux) has the resources to guide you.
We know users will rarely visit the site so the Client(s) will get a banner soon too.
Thank you for your support!
Advocating for Android as a free, open platform for everyone to build apps on.keepandroidopen.org
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The defunct email addresses in that section are depressing.
It just sends me to a place where I can report an antitrust claim. Like say google is breaking the law and needs to be investigated.
I don't know what I'd tell them they're doing wrong nor what steps should be taken. I'm especially baffled because we already let Apple do this shit.
I can't just complain about stuff on a crime reporting form. I need to be reporting something.
This page documents how a new application gets included in the main F-Droid repository. It includes the technical details that a submitter should be aware of...f-droid.org
Got a quick answer from EU's DMA Team, they might have a standard response due to high demand :
> Dear citizen,
>
> Thank you for contacting us and sharing your concerns regarding the impact of Google’s plans to introduce a developer verification process on Android. We appreciate that you have chosen to contact us, as we welcome feedback from interested parties.
... 1/N
Advocating for Android as a free, open platform for everyone to build apps on.keepandroidopen.org
Thanks for the link
I still have problems to understand what happens with apps like those of fossify, or DuckDuckGo for example, that i downloaded and maintain over F-Droid, but that are also available on Playstore and thus should be under the "verified" category.
These should still work but not the F-Droid Store App itself so i need to update via a website manually???
I am not an IT person. I genuelly have problems understanding this, despite having read the infos i found so far.
@v_d_richards If signed by the developer (reproducible) and the developer has submitted to the Google pressure, the app will work fine.
If signed by F-Droid, we think they will not work at all, not even our Client, so we will not be able to provide updates.
For those apps already on Play you will submit to Google's rules and use Play, right?
For those not on Play... good luck tracking the APK, if the developer bowed down.
I hated Google before, but do more every day.
I had hoped that if Apps and their developers took it on them to do the verification shit, loading and maintaining at least such apps from other places than PlayStore would be possible in Android.
The users are trapped:
Banking Apps and some others don' t work with Custom Roms.
Open Source from free places will no longer work on G-Android.
The only solution is havingntwo devices which is expensive af.
I.hate.Google.so.much.
Si china puede hacer un clon de Android, ¿Acaso no puede hacerlo Europa?
¿Para cuando un Linux para dispositivos móviles?
¿hasta cuando seguiremos siendo vasallos de las multinacionales norteamericanas?
¿Para cuando nuestra delcaración de Soberania Digital?
¡Sin Soberania Digital no hay libertad, independencia ni democrácia!
@apicultor Everything we do is transparent and public, eg. floss.social/@fdroidorg/116086…
@Alonely0 @cy8aer Older apps were added when reproducibility wasn't achievable. For this reason today only about 22% of apps that we host are signed by their developer. This number will increase with time as we push for reproducibility at inclusion time. Also, switching from one signer to another is an annoying process that users need to take manually, for security reasons.
Have you addressed the points made by the creator of #Wireguard regarding the security of your build infra?
gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroiddata/-…
Supply chain security is super-duper underrated. Thanks for the spotlight, Jia Tan!
Per https://f-droid.org/en/docs/Inclusion_Policy/ The software must not download additional executable binary files (e.g. addons, auto-updates, etc.) without explicit user consent....GitLab
F-Droid is the FOSS app distribution ecosystem for Android where your user freedom comes first. Discover our app store to explore the world of free and open source (FOSS) apps and [learn](https://f-droid.f-droid.org
Thank you for your amazing work. For me its time to switch to Linux in under 200 days.
mastodon.fbin.in/@fbinin/11608…
github.com/offa/android-foss/p…
@shuvashish76Add Keep Android Open notice by offa · Pull Request #606 · offa/android-foss
A list of Free and Open Source Software (FOSS) for Android – saving Freedom and Privacy. - Add Keep Android Open notice by offa · Pull Request #606 · offa/android-fossGitHub
If Google doesn't want to play nice, I suppose we have options...
Huawei HarmonyOS: harmonyos.com/en/
Samsung TizenOS: samsungtizenos.com/
Perhaps an Android exodus would scare Google enough to backtrack on its registration agenda.
Does anyone know how this affects phones that already have F-Droid and apps from there installed?
Will some Android/Google Update make them stop working all of a sudden? Or not let me update them anymore? Or will this affect only future Android versions?
@F-Droid @Viktoria D. Richards/Uddelhexe
How does it affect degoogled Android? Will F-Droid Work on Custom ROMs? Will someone tech-savvy still be able to degoogle android and make F-Droid work? Will it be possible to flash an existing android with a custom ROM?
Or: Do I need to buy a phone with a custom ROM preinstalled? Will someone else fork AOSP and save it for custom ROMs?
So many questions. I hate the direction Google is heading to. Which Chance do have surveillance conscious people to get out of it?
I think it is useless to keep android open. As long as google controls it, it is a sinking ship.
Much better to move to other alternatives like Jolla or other linuxbased options and rebuild from scratch.
will this affect lineage phones? (or any other roms)
Directly or indirectly?
Advocating for Android as a free, open platform for everyone to build apps on.keepandroidopen.org
Adding regulator and right group information from the Chinese Mainland.GitHub
@nathanael @GrapheneOS We should be allies in the Android ecosystem (specially during these days) but they choose to be frenemies for some reason.
Fun fact: We talked with more GOS users at FOSDEM than stock Android users. 🤔
@Alonely0 @cy8aer Since you brought up the signature model, Google Play requires devs keep the signing keys with them, F-Droid just offers it as an option. F-Droid offers using only the upstream signature if the app is reproducible. f-droid.org/docs/Reproducible_…
Also, how the APK signing keys are managed has nothing to do with Android Developer Verification or Keep Android Open.
Introduction F-Droid works to spread reproducible builds across the free software Android ecosystem. The goal is to enable software build processes that anyo...f-droid.org
Good to know that Google are keeping their track about "Apple-izing" themselves.
They just waited until there were absolutely zero competitor to close the whole thing.
Time to degoogleize all mobile OSes 😮💨
Thank you for the information and links at keepandroidopen.org/
Got a relatively generic and neutral but friendly response.
I'm still unsure whether this contributes a drop to filling the ocean... 🤔
Advocating for Android as a free, open platform for everyone to build apps on.keepandroidopen.org
@paet floss.social/@fdroidorg/116086…
Yes, standard text. Maybe we should encourage people to mention that not being able to install software on a device can't be a necessary and proportionate measure to begin with.
> We know users will rarely visit the site so the Client(s) will get a banner soon too.
The new release of Neo Store (published today) already has it. And our website has it as well: izzyondroid.org/
What @crazyeddie is trying to say: standing up for openness, freedom, and the right to choose your own tools only makes sense in a society where openness, freedom, rights or even rational discourse still have any meaning at all. The US is probably no longer such a society.
@Doune floss.social/@fdroidorg/116119…
@olberger The petition is just another initiative.We encourage everyone to contact their local representative, using the country links: keepandroidopen.org
Keep Android Open
Advocating for Android as a free, open platform for everyone to build apps on.keepandroidopen.org
No one *wanted* to see what Google was up to. I.e. autoredirects in G Maps, Youtube playback failures were ramped up to unusability. This is no surprise.
Who actually didn‘t see that was already living inside G-defined boundaries, i.E. having a G account, using Youtube via G-controlled browser, using Maps via G app, …
Remains a mystery to me why people use a OS/browser made by the major advertising predator, known mainly for working against humans.
Here's the direct link to the petition: change.org/p/stop-google-from-…
🖖!
Do I understand correctly, that Google free Android is not directly affected by this policy?
But the majority of the userbase is affected, so an app developer would loose nearly the complete userbase and this would result in many developers giving up, destroying the app market.
And this in turn will affect Google free Android.
Please elaborate, if I misunderstood!
@blackoverflow Yes, if you're tech-savvy you'll figure a good device to flash your favorite custom Android distro that favors user freedom.
But the other 3.9 billion stock users... they are at the mercy of Google, if you want to recommend them a good app from #FDroid they are blocked.
Leif Samuelsson reshared this.
Institutioneel racisme:
Omwonenden van AZC krijgen tot 1.000 euro voor preventieve maatregelen tegen inbraak.
#Lochem/ wethouder Rijsberman beweert dat dit het draagvlak voor asiel verbreedt, maar het is allicht precies omgekeerd.
Dit legitimeert juist racisme & de onware overtuiging dat asielzoekers crimineel zouden zijn.
Hoe zouden we reageren als alle buren van Joden extra geld kregen voor preventieve maatregelen tegen inbraak door Joden?
nos.nl/artikel/2602860-omwonen…
Dat geld kunnen maximaal 24 aanvragers uitgeven aan camera's, extra verlichting in de buitenruimte of sloten.NOS Nieuws
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Ja, zo werd het besloten en gecommuniceerd.
Zie het artikel, en de tweede post.
Zoals ik al zei: asielzoekers zijn juist MINDER crimineel dan vergelijkbare groepen Nederlanders.
Aanvulling:
Dat asielzoekers crimineler zouden zijn is volstrekte onzin. Uit onderzoek van oa het WODC (Wetenschappelijk Onderzoek- en Documentatiecentrum Ministerie van Justitie en Veiligheid) blijkt juist dat asielzoekers minder vaak verdacht worden van criminaliteit dan vergelijkbare groepen Nederlanders.
Ik zal het maar eerlijk zeggen:
Ik vind dat iedereen die D66 heeft gestemd persoonlijk excuses aan mij mag maken. En niet alleen aan mij.
--
Anja (61) is na een herseninfarct arbeidsongeschikt, maar ontvangt geen uitkering. Ze is niet de enige
Bijna een half miljoen mensen die vanwege ziekte of handicap niet kunnen werken, ontvangen geen passende uitkering. Die groep zal groeien nu het nieuwe kabinet wil bezuinigen op het sociale stelsel. Het gezin van Anja en Piet ervaart al 35 jaar de gevolgen van steeds strenger wordend beleid.
Simple solution
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I wonder if you could make one about the recent hardware price hikes.
Something like magic ingredients getting more expensive because they are all bought up by whoever makes these birds. 🤷♂️
/ignore, wish I could do this at work!
@technomancy what?! Why on Earth would you like to ignore co-workers?! 😱 If they talk on Slack, it must be because it's very important!
(I'll see myself out, don't push 😬)
wouldn’t that mean „I change“ if that’s supposed to be Latin?
„shut up!“ probably is more like „sile!“ ?
But then again my Latin is quite rusty, and I don’t have any knowledge about chaosiahnish at all…
🤓
@vampirdaddy hehe, thanks for telling me this means something else in Latin; yes, my "magic language" here is often way more basic: mute+o → muteo.
I have made way worst in the past; like the famous "Allus...! Yuus...! Needum...! Est... LOVIUS!" from Pepper&Carrot episode 36 
Thanks for teaching some chaosiahn magic incantation etymology!
🥰
I liked all, allusyuus… and ignisme,too (the latter had me suspect Latin as reference).
Looking forward for more of your work. 👍
silere nescio, solum verbum "silentium". Possibile est, sed nōn usunt multa populi.
(Latinum meum nōn bonum, utinam dimitteas erratas meas.)
@VANTABlack2000 Thank you. Yes, I have to find a name for the young small elf blond; her codename in my sketchbook is Free-ren or FreeLibre-ren , a pun about a free libre derivation of the Frieren proprietary character.
For the Gothic Sorceress, her codename is Cepper. For "Cepper&Parrot" an anagram for "Pepper&Carrot".
So, as you can see, nothing serious.
such simple and effective resistance!
does someone know what's up with the teapot in the first panel? 🤓😅
what a nice reference! This feels SO Discworldy to me. Terry Pratchet would be proud!
is it mentioned in the Pepper&Carrot comics or is it a background oddity there as well?
I thought I read all of P&C comics. But that unfalsifyable teapot slipped my mind 😁
@NeroBurner Thank you for reading them! And oh yes, Terry Pratchett influence is strong on my work
The master. (Douglas Adams too).
The teapot moon appeared the first time on panel 1 of the episode 4 in 2024 peppercarrot.com/en/webcomic/e… , and can be seen after here and there (ep30 from the top of my mind).

, thank you! That was excellent.
Also, thank you as always for using #altText4Everybody.
@jesuisatire @scriptkiddie Are you serious?!
@David Revoy @jeSuisatire neindochohh ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ - Hi David, I'm a big fan of your comics and I know they are all made by you without AI.
But deep in my heart I'm also a big AI fan and like to generate images that I wouldn't be able to do on my own - am I a bad person now? Anyway, I always feel bad when I get hate comments for AI images that I have generated.
this is what I think about AI - please feel free to write your comment :)
The real problem with AI-generated artworks...
First of all, I would like to assure you that I am completely open to and enthusiastic about #technology. I don't believe that Pandora's box can be closed again. However, #AI will change our #society forever, and I #fear that no one is aware of the real implications.A major problem with AI is interpersonal alienation. With every #online #communication, I can no longer be sure whether I am even talking to a #human being, and if so, how much AI that person is using. AI #advertising even shows us how to score points with the perfect AI responses during #dating. You can have the other person screened by AI and then respond perfectly to their wishes and hobbies. But is the other person even real anymore, or do they just want to manipulate me for quick pleasure and then throw me away?
Even when friends show me their #artwork, it could always contain AI. The perfect vacation photos or the painted picture. Even at #school, I no longer know whether the presentation is real or generated by AI. In the past, you could copy something, but you still had to make the effort to find good material. Today, AI does all the work, and I no longer know whether the funny introduction or the punchline is even real. Assuming that this is all real and true work, then I can no longer appreciate it because I consider it to be AI. This totally alienates me from my friends.
Our #society is based on understanding and interpersonal intimacy. To find your place in society, you need #feedback but also #acceptance. But if everyone optimizes themselves to the max with the help of AI, what is there left to accept? This will make society cold and apathetic, and more than “you have tried your best” is no longer possible. If someone does have a genuine flash of inspiration or develops something groundbreaking, everyone will just shrug their shoulders because they suspect it's the next AI #hype. This makes it impossible to reveal oneself to others or to understand them, which destroys a fundamental human requirement.
Before the AI era, #art was a form of communication for which words were insufficient. #Music, in particular, has the power to touch your heart. But today, I always find myself wondering: isn't this AI music designed to trigger these emotions in me in order to manipulate me, and isn't there actually a real musician expressing their heartbreak in this #song? In future films, I won't be able to tell whether humans were involved in writing the script at all, or whether humans even wrote the #lyrics for the songs on the new album in the charts.
We will be trapped in a #matrix where it doesn't matter whether you take the red or blue pill. Either something is clearly AI, or you can't be sure how much AI is in it. We simply won't be able to tell anymore. This is exactly what is intended. People are already falling in #love with AI or having #therapy sessions with it. The corporations at the forefront of AI want precisely this #dehumanization in order to #control us more easily and turn us into mindless consumer victims. #SiliconValley #ideology seeks immortality in artificial bodies, with the future of #humanity playing only a subordinate role as a means to that end.
#politics #future #mankind #science #problem #fail #apocalypse #doomsday #world #education #emotion #internet #dystopia #mindset #propaganda #fake #manipulation #power #economy #cyberspace #cyberpunk #warning #danger #news
Thank you for your words.
please please please make it so that the maker of the Avian Intelligence runs away with a huge pot of gold after his giant cauldron explodes and an angry mob chases him for swindling everyone.
That would be the perfect ending to this arc.
The AI ones you draw look robotic with the panel seams, star symbols and display in place of eyes. Their speech bubbles also have star symbols and different background color. A real parrot would look real, squawk, and have normal speech bubbles. It could preen (or even swear if it's owned by a pirate mage).
The owner of the parrot could also simply state that it's just a normal parrot.
David Revoy wrote:
(as a part of the audience already has trouble following what was previously established on other previous episode.)
What kind of of tools or system do you use @David Revoy, or are you envisioning, to give your audience the option to follow up on the previously established content and context)?
Official homepage of Pepper&Carrot, a free(libre) and open-source webcomic about Pepper, a young witch and her cat, Carrot. They live in a fantasy universe of potions, magic, and creatures.Pepper&Carrot
[edited]@David Revoy
Nice.
thx
Learning questions:
Do you have a diaspora* account?
[That question solved itself, looks like your account went down with framasphere, @mullana@pod.geraspora.de was last active like 6 years ago]
I know that @Mullana at least had one.
Would you be interested (have fun) in explore options inside the fediVerse, and eventually the federatedWeb (let's call the connection to D* that as that makes more sense)?
Have you tried and\or considered to create one large thread of all the chapters of an episode or season?
@bitpickup I had a Diaspora account from 2016 to 2022 but I closed it; it felt a bit of a duplicate with my Mastodon account and my blog.
For the big thread; I can't here: On Mastodon, to create a thread, you need to reply to your first post. It makes all the replies inversely chronologically posted for the timeline of my followers. Imagine: posting dozen of comics like this. This is very self-imposing on the TL of other, I'm afraid such a practice would gain me lot of 'unfollow'.
🧵 1 \x
@davidrevoy
> It makes all the replies inversely chronologically posted
> Imagine: posting dozen of "comments" like this.
True.
Happens to me every once in a while when I try, or tried to do or invent something.
First of all there is the issue of "workload" to have in mind, so everything that I say or propose has to be taken with care.
🧵 1 \x
For a completed series there is a neat option that came to my mind by evolving the long comment above.
Creat a specific profile only for the series:
@Carrot&Pepper_01
Post all the chapters
Reshare the first one with your main account when you are done. Nobody will know until that profile goes public.
🧵 3\x
As @mullana pointed out, several social media accounts are time consuming.
As a life time friendican (voreingenommen) I really think you should test such a profile and realize the options it gives you at hand.
In a second step you would need to get a hand on your own instance:
social.peppercarrot.com
That's your working station, don't follow anybody, only accept followers.
On friendica you can switch form one profile to another with two clicks.
🧵 4\4
@davidrevoy
That means, you can create a profile for ever series, project even characters of yours.
Also friendica has bbCode editing and an own image gallery. If you visit the @bitpickup@tupambae.com on it's server you'll see a quite elaborated image gallery.
You upload images as not public and copy paste the URL.
You can embed the image where ever you want, as @utopiarte did just recently with your example how you created the muteo chapter.
Providers offer friendica for 6 Euro a month.
Last but not least, of course just work on as of now with @davidrevoy that's your distributer for the posts from social.peppercarrot.com and the small talk with the audience..
You host the instance, you host the content, you own the data.
@bitpickup@troet.cafe @bitpickup@tupambae.com Thank you for the feedback, I'll keep this notes around and study the idea for future plan of improving my social media.
Don't @bitpickup@troet.cafe!
Don't do it!
Don't tell @davidrevoy to ask politily if he could slip onto tupambae.com to look around an check out friendica. You know how they are .. du bringst uns in Teufelsküche!
I've recently become more active in organizing local communities. I just don't have the energy for more.
In general terms I ask in the first place because of the experience of people like you.
And the interest is first of all about figuring out how the fedi can be of use and how the fedi could be implemented. Those things mostly evolve out of "learning and inventing by doing". To a certain extent a little bit like painting. Unless you do it and observe than the results, you wont be able to evolve or adjust that idea nore get new ideas.
The view point from over here (friendica), and the tools it brings to the table of the fedi are for example:
Right now the friendica post about #scriptedTails, an initial idea to evolve, actually contains an image that has restricted the access to few people in one contact circle.
This is the direct link.
At any given moment the permission for visualization can be changed. More circles of friendica profiles or single profiles could be added or taken out of the group of profiles to see the image. Always from within the friendica fediverse of course. As mastodon doesn't have those permission capabilities, #mastodon profiles can't be added.
BUT, if all restrictions are lifted, and something is changed in the post, or the post is called after a certain time, when the cache of the mastodon server has been emptied, the server tries to pull again the image and it shows up. In tests the time to update the cache varied, from server to server from a day to a week.
Also, friendica can post, if the specific connector is activated, to #tumblr, #bluesky, publish via #email, and a few other web sites, as well as #wordpress.
All these details make me think and wonder what we could invent with all that for the community of independent publishers of content.
btw
No idea why the typewriter GIF doesn't show up on diaspora*, some issues always appear and only by doing it the best practice and workarounds can be found.
@studi0
- First frame:
scriptkiddie@debian:~$> sudo prompt tale > ..- Second frame:
- Frame three:
- four:
- five
- ..
@EDITion | EN @EDITde @EDITes
@mullana
> I'm barely active on any social media
I wish I could say that
> I've recently become more active in organizing local communities
Real life action and real life personal contact.
\\ blushes in envy hides in the shadows
We knew this was coming, but now the clock is running. From Privacy International:
"Yesterday the Trump Administration announced a proposed change in policy for travellers to the U.S. It applies to the powers of data collection by the Customs and Border Police (CBP)."
"If the proposed changes are adopted after the 60-day consultation, then millions of travellers to the U.S. will be forced to use a U.S. government mobile phone app, submit their social media from the last five years and email addresses used in the last ten years, including of family members. They’re also proposing the collection of DNA."
PI linked to and summarized a Federal Register entry describing the proposed requirements:
-All visitors must submit ‘their social media from the last 5 years’
-ESTA (Electronic System for Travel Authorization) applications will include ‘high value data fields’, ‘when feasible’
‘telephone numbers used in the last five years’
-‘email addresses used in the last ten years’
-‘family number telephone numbers (sic) used in the last five years’
-biometrics – face, fingerprint, DNA, and iris
-business telephone numbers used in the last five years
-business email addresses used in the last ten years.
privacyinternational.org/news-…
The Federal Register entry says comments are encouraged and
must be submitted (no later than
February 9, 2026) to be assured of
consideration
Federal Register entry: govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-202…
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We have nothing to FEAR but fear itself.
From the home of the brave to the land of the fearful.
Put on your big boy trousers America and go forth boldly and do good.
It's OK for me.
The only reason I'd go to USA is if my company forces me to do so.
Now I can say "no" also in that case, on the legal basis that I don't want to give up my privacy rights.
Sounds like there is a strong chance this goes through, and likely they will use the illegal immigration narrative as an excuse.
Hoping common sense prevails but in these modern days there isn't much of that, no matter which party you vote for, the government continues its agenda.
HELL to the NO WAY!!
This should also be enough to boycott the soccer world championship AND the olympic games, WTF!
Anyone involved in international tourism in the US should find another job right now - this is a game ender.
We knew this was coming, but now the clock is running. From Privacy International:"Yesterday the Trump Administration announced a proposed change in policy for travellers to the U.S. It applies to the powers of data collection by the Customs and Border Police (CBP)."
"If the proposed changes are adopted after the 60-day consultation, then millions of travellers to the U.S. will be forced to use a U.S. government mobile phone app, submit their social media from the last five years and email addresses used in the last ten years, including of family members. They’re also proposing the collection of DNA."
PI linked to and summarized a Federal Register entry describing the proposed requirements:
-All visitors must submit ‘their social media from the last 5 years’
-ESTA (Electronic System for Travel Authorization) applications will include ‘high value data fields’, ‘when feasible’
‘telephone numbers used in the last five years’
-‘email addresses used in the last ten years’
-‘family number telephone numbers (sic) used in the last five years’
-biometrics – face, fingerprint, DNA, and iris
-business telephone numbers used in the last five years
-business email addresses used in the last ten years.privacyinternational.org/news-…
The Federal Register entry says comments are encouraged and
must be submitted (no later than
February 9, 2026) to be assured of
considerationFederal Register entry: govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-202…
Luckily I don't have to, and I don't want to, go to the US in the near future.
But there may be lots of people who either must or want to go there, for one reason or another. Good luck to them!
this starts to be bad as something.
i take my guesswork. when this or similar happens to domestic citizens. i put this as serious warning.
.
Reminder that US Citizenship, to get rid of, is a COST of $2,350
This citizenship is literally a debt hole. Its a "pay to exit", if you have a ticket to another country.
If not, you're trapped here.
this data could be used to copy visitors, maybe disappear them, and then ai-impersonate them into potential 'terrorists' to accuse and retaliate against anyone in the world.
IOW, the Trump Regime plan to abduct anyone who comes anywhere near their web of influence.
And they will not stop at people who physically enter the US,
But anyone who communicates by the 'information highway' most of which is owned by Bezos and Musk and a couple others.
This is Digital Empire
#Snowden
Absolutely. No. Reason. To. Ever. Go. There.
I know, I know, governments change, at least in the fullness of time. But things like this, when they come, they do not easily go, no matter who takes over.
Also: This is a great way to test such tech and databases at relative scale, before rolling the same thing out for US citizens at home...
> business telephone numbers used in the last five years
Lol, no call center worker is going to be visiting any time soon
I wish they would take the Epstein investigation as serious as this.
The Epstein files really may be the best thing that could happen to the world right now.
"Yesterday the Trump Administration announced a proposed change in policy for travellers to the U.S. It applies to the powers of data collection by the Customs and Border Police (CBP)."
Great timing
Roll on the World Cup & Olympic Games
…Should anyone turn up
I see a large rise in fishing trips from canada and mexico in u.s. waters..
but how about. NO. simply.
and this is what happens when ones pin up leads the DPRK and one desires nothing more than to emulate them. So who is scared of the communists now...?
The Federal Register entry says comments are encouraged and must be submitted (no later than February 9, 2026) to be assured of consideration.
Probably a silly question (and perhaps I read the privacyinternational.org article too quickly), but how does one, as a random US citizen, provide comment?
I searched the PDF for "respon" to see if there was a URL or similar reference, but one didn't seem to be present?
I guess Amazon won't need to plan for nearly as many attendees at this year's re:Invent (one wonders the impact on other US-hosted conferences, festivals, etc.).
Ha! LOLs. No freakin' way am I giving them that information.
I'll just travel to Canada instead. Much nicer country. Not fascist.
Looks like #CBP / #ICE is out in Italy doing a little advance work:
"US to send ICE agents to Winter Olympics, prompting Italian anger"
"The governor of Lombardy region, Attilio Fontana, sought to calm the situation, suggesting that ICE agents would be deployed in Italy to protect US Vice President JD Vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio.Olympics, prompting Italian anger"
Which should be the work of the US Secret Service, last time I heard...
Here: bbc.com/news/articles/c5y29xzj…
The US federal agency says it will not play an immigration role at February's event in Milan-Cortina.Paul Kirby (BBC News)
the "email addresses used in the last ten years" is ludicrous. I use catch-all email-addresses and hand out concocted addresses liberally. They expect me to remember every "joesblog@mydomain.example.com" address ever used?
And every family-member's phone-number used? I barely remember my wife's phone-number let alone relatives I sporadically call via the phone.
(I mean, the rest is pretty over-the-top too, so the whole "avoid the US" is good advice regardless, but some elements are nigh-impossible)
I mean, it's not like *this* is suddenly the reason for me not to want to visit.
Never been, never will. The act that these days they wouldn't let my trans ass in anyways is of no consequence.
I'll continue to enjoy beautiful Canada, not to mention all the places in Europe I've already visited and will again in the future. Would love to see more of the world too, the USA can eat a dick though.
I'm sure Disney and Vegas CEOs will be utterly thrilled.
FWIW (Brit here) I decided not to travel to the US while the admin is in place immediately it won - The roadmap for Project 2025 was perfectly clear a year before that.
If the #USA wants to become a #PariahState where noone I know can legally enter, then they shure made that happen...
Espechally since the amount of info as well as #Givware demanded is literally Illegal and even if I wanted to I cold not comply because that would nesessitating comitting literal felonies in #Germany!
My frustration is that every time I tell someone I know who is planning on going to the US on holiday that they should wait until this fascist regime is gone, they think I am crazy.
Look. I am a US citizen and I will not be going back there until the regime is over. There are much better places to visit anyway!
I can get behind that
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@amyworrall I agree.
They would be proud to be called predators (“alpha males” etc.).
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Likewise we need to stop saying that oligarchs are "worth" billions of dollars.
They're barely worth their weight as *dog food*, which is what they need to be converted into. Right fucking NOW.
Agreed!
They are predators and _abusers!_
They treat people with all the classic behaviors of abusers.
Restricting movement and person-to-person connections. Muddying information and education. Constant lying. Constant violations of boundaries and consent. Financial sabotage. Medical neglect.
Negging, threats, coercion, manipulation, intimidation. Belittling and dismissing.
Their actions as oppressors on the macro level, is as the actions of an individual abuser on a micro level.
tante
in reply to tante • • •The Manchurian Idiot
in reply to tante • • •tante
in reply to The Manchurian Idiot • • •ıpuɐɯznʞ
in reply to The Manchurian Idiot • • •nojhan, Cassandre de l’analyse systémique
in reply to tante • • •Vasilis
in reply to tante • • •Benoît B.
in reply to tante • • •+1
> "destroying the ecological, informational or social environment"
As good as this generated code may be, it remains unacceptable because of that. And that should be the ultimate reason (as the code quality may rise, but at the cost of more destruction)
★ Zagara ★
in reply to tante • • •A very mediocre dystopia indeed.
Fabian Transchel
in reply to ★ Zagara ★ • • •@Nausipoule I'd argue that instead (or, if you'd like: additionally), it is the terminal form of stochastic terrorism:
You will be randomly denied services, participation and dignity. Now isn't that quite a future.
mʌp ᯅ
in reply to tante • • •tante reshared this.
tante
in reply to mʌp ᯅ • • •Poligofsky 🇨🇦 .. 🚫🤖
in reply to tante • • •mxey
in reply to mʌp ᯅ • • •The Final Bottleneck
Armin Ronacher (Armin Ronacher's Thoughts and Writings)GK
in reply to tante • • •Ray McCarthy
in reply to GK • • •I've a bridge over the river Shannon you can buy.
"make wonderful, creative, unique software using AI."
No. An LLM can't create at all and if it actually works and meets the spec it's likely copied.
GK
in reply to Ray McCarthy • • •Ray McCarthy
in reply to GK • • •A compiler implements it. The LLM/Gen is a rubbish search engine, database and statistical engine. It regurgitates based on prompts, not formal specifications.
GK
in reply to Ray McCarthy • • •Roni Rolle Laukkarinen
in reply to GK • • •Cogito ergo mecagoendios
in reply to tante • • •And I cannot even begin to emphasize how much *it will cost about the same despite it being of lower quality*.
Once credit entities realize that GPUs get obsolete very fast and five years down the line the early-mover needs to buy again just as much new processing hardware as a late-comer, they will stop subsidizing today's AI as a gamble to capture the market for tomorrow.
And then your 45-minutes-saving boilerplate machine will cost 5$ per run.
Niels Abildgaard
in reply to tante • • •Good take! But also, like "can you create software" is not really an accurate framing of what the hard part of software was.
Most people could "create software" by looking up a Hello world example. That wouldn't help them solve amy real problems tho.
LLMs produce software that *looks more like* it solves problems... but security, integrity, legality were kind of always implied parts of the problem.
Like, it takes a weird subtle reframing of the goal to make LLMs look at all useful.
Max von Webel
in reply to tante • • •Max von Webel
in reply to Max von Webel • • •@tante
Ray McCarthy
in reply to Max von Webel • • •Then, Max, you have no understanding of LLM/Gen AI, or maybe of specifying requirements, designing system (modules, APIs etc) and then writing the code test & debug. If it's any size of project you need a team & management.
There is also documentation.
Actually writing the code is the easiest bit & the only bit the current LLM/Gen AI does, and does badly as it relies on code scraped from elsewhere & statistical shuffling of fragments.
Can't work. It's a technological dead end.
Christian Kruse
in reply to Max von Webel • • •@343max I think that's kind of the wrong question. Skill degradation and the moral implications (crawling of copyrighted material, climate, etc.) don't go away just because the generated code is good.
But I'm pretty sure you are aware 🙂
Count Holdem
in reply to tante • • •Alper Çuğun-Gscheidel
in reply to tante • • •Ray McCarthy
in reply to tante • • •degenerating degenerate
in reply to tante • • •Well, well done for admitting that demonstrably, the dog can play the piano. Now we are just talking about how well it plays.
FWIW these LLMs have no need for being consistent with what happened in a previous context. The same LLM, in a new context, will usefully critique and find and fix flaws in what it itself did in the previous context.
The "slop" aspect of LLM output seems to come from just going with what one context produced blind, when it can iterate as, eg, QA manager.
John
in reply to tante • • •I mean, you can also "build a house" by using deck screws to connect some wet doug fir 2x4s into a "frame" and then staple on some drywall and siding and drape the whole thing in a plastic tarp.
You will die when it falls on you, but for a time, it was a "house".
Anton Gerasimov
in reply to tante • • •Grymt
in reply to Anton Gerasimov • •Anton Gerasimov
in reply to Grymt • • •Grymt
in reply to Anton Gerasimov • •Alessandro Corazza 🇨🇦
in reply to tante • • •Bogdan Buduroiu
in reply to tante • • •The best engineers I know just became more ambitious, and so should all of us.
I'll keep repeating this, there's tonnes of proprietary binary blobs in all of our tech. You can shout from the rooftops about how much you love your /e/OS phone, if your phone modem relies on a proprietary driver, it's pretty much worthless as a "resistance against big tech". European digital sovereignty is equally worthless.
LLMs are good at staring at hexdumps, humans aren't. Use their advantage to build actually open tech.
> But you do pay a hefty price: In lowering quality (security issues, less maintainable), in skill decay in the people "guiding" the stochastic parrots, etc.
Skill issue, idk what more to say. I don't find it any different to managing juniors and reviewing their PRs. Bad code is bad code.
Kevin Huigens🕯
in reply to tante • • •Cassandrich
in reply to tante • • •wasabi brain
in reply to tante • • •Wild Eyed Boy From Freecloud
in reply to tante • • •Really Lazy Bear
in reply to tante • • •I think LLM's are only good at learning programming language's basics or getting yourself interested in some random topic. That's what I do with a local LLM. I do the actual research and learning more than the basics myself.
Idk. I've never liked being spoonfed information anyway and I learn best when my effort of learning pays off. I always liked reading and learning stuff on my own even before LLM's started popping up but idk why people started decided to become really lazy.
Lars Marowsky-Brée 😷
in reply to tante • • •I don't believe that to be universally true. I *wish* it was, because it'd be so much easier to argue against them.
Unfortunately, the "mere" fact that all currently existing incarnations are fundamentally evil does not mean they must lead to lower quality software.
A velocity-first mindset has *always* led to lower quality, regardless of GenAI. And they make that rush accessible to everyone, regardless of expertise/skill.
[1/2]
Lars Marowsky-Brée 😷
in reply to Lars Marowsky-Brée 😷 • • •I'm also unsure skill decay is real as such. I also would struggle for a few moments before I could do long division again, or implementing a sorting algorithm.
We get the lower quality not because people use LLMs.
But because they are pressured to ever faster velocity by capitalism/fascism that wants to deregulate everything.
LLMs, used right, can be *useful*.
The problem is they are currently a) evil, b) used badly at scale.
One *can* use them for high quality results. [2/3]
tante
in reply to Lars Marowsky-Brée 😷 • • •Lars Marowsky-Brée 😷
in reply to tante • • •Yes, but is that actually untrue? I know that even Anthropic has shown that people learn less (of what they'd have learned via the traditional method) when completing a task using GenAI, sure.
But are they maybe learning *other* things? Is their use of that tool/method improving, for example? e.g., the Anthropic paper showed that this varied widely for different Usage Patterns.
IDNK. I think it's truly too early to truly understand those mid- to long-term effects.
condret
in reply to tante • • •LoseFriendsandAlienatePeople
in reply to tante • • •I could see a world where coders stop sharing data online, ceemreat and lock their code in a new "Internet." Making the old, open Internet dead.
Ben Ramsey
in reply to tante • • •Nicole Parsons
in reply to tante • • •State surveillance and privacy violations have arrived in Canada.
oracle.com/news/announcement/o…
bloomberg.com/news/articles/20…
healthcareitnews.com/news/orac…
healthcareitnews.com/news/orac…
telecareaware.com/breaking-ora…
telecareaware.com/summing-up-t…
oracle.com/news/announcement/m…
Larry Ellison isn't satisfied with a one-party media monopoly in the USA, he's also after the private medical information of everyone in the world.
Please, please people: file complaints about Oracle & health portal "validation" for devices.
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Oracle Health launches medical device validation program
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Kyle Memoir 🍉🐧
in reply to tante • • •Here's a comprehensive useful (and still valid) look at how AI can and can't be used productively in software development:
codemanship.wordpress.com/2025…
The AI-Ready Software Developer – Index
Codemanship's Blog