By the way if anyone wants a Mastodon server I provide via webape.site - I am already getting new requests and will take a few days to process new ones, but if you want one you can simply pay and have it all setup. Backups included.
Mind you I also provide trade-free services via trom.tf and lots of stuff via tromsite.com. WebApe is to allow me to support these free projects.
Via WebApe I also provide Friendica instances, Peertube, or Nextcloud.
Please share if you think this is helpful for others.
like this
reshared this
Afallen
in reply to Tio • • •Tio
in reply to Afallen • •Tio
in reply to Afallen • •joene π΄π΅πΈ:rojava:
in reply to Tio • • •Tio
in reply to joene π΄π΅πΈ:rojava: • •joene π΄π΅πΈ:rojava:
in reply to Tio • • •Tio
in reply to joene π΄π΅πΈ:rojava: • •That is ok if you think that. But the costs are more since I do backups to other servers, for which I also pay. And I do all of the work: setup the server, keep it updated, install the services, manage them, design, debug, provide a webmail, for Wordpress access to a paid-for suite of plugins, and more.
I also cannot scale this up, so I either make enough to support myself out of a few websites, or I can't do it at all.
Yes, trade is the origin of most problems, and it is unfortunate that I have to trade my skills/time for WebApe instead of putting all of my efforts into TROMsite and its projects. But I have no other choice. If you and others would donate to support the 20+ services from trom.tf (including, friendica, nexycloud, peertube and a lot more) then I could expand those that are trade-free. Even make multiple and free Mastodon instances, provide help for free to others who want to setup theirs, and a lot more.
I rely on donations from 2011. I managed to "make it" for more than a decade. Never sold anything, never traded my stuff or myself. except a few t
... show moreThat is ok if you think that. But the costs are more since I do backups to other servers, for which I also pay. And I do all of the work: setup the server, keep it updated, install the services, manage them, design, debug, provide a webmail, for Wordpress access to a paid-for suite of plugins, and more.
I also cannot scale this up, so I either make enough to support myself out of a few websites, or I can't do it at all.
Yes, trade is the origin of most problems, and it is unfortunate that I have to trade my skills/time for WebApe instead of putting all of my efforts into TROMsite and its projects. But I have no other choice. If you and others would donate to support the 20+ services from trom.tf (including, friendica, nexycloud, peertube and a lot more) then I could expand those that are trade-free. Even make multiple and free Mastodon instances, provide help for free to others who want to setup theirs, and a lot more.
I rely on donations from 2011. I managed to "make it" for more than a decade. Never sold anything, never traded my stuff or myself. except a few times when I made some websites here and there for money. Now I am forced to do this again since the donations are not enough.
But WebApe at least is a decent try at that, since I will only take a limited number of projects so that I can do it properly. No "scale-up" that will fuck things up.
Hopefully that makes you understand the situation better.
joene π΄π΅πΈ:rojava:
in reply to Tio • • •I understand that you want to make money of it. But this huge difference looks like it is a scam (I don't say it is). For webmail and backups you will benefit from bulk purchase, so that is not the issue I think.
Normally when you sell something in the capitalist world and when the company wants to make profit, it's around twice the cost price. If I was you I would make it completely transparant how these prices are calculated.
Tio
in reply to joene π΄π΅πΈ:rojava: • •I am 1 person I manage 30+ websites that are free. I am already managing 5 more for WebApe. There is no way I can work on more than 20 websites for WebApe and from my calculations that would get me around the minimum wage where I live. That's the best I can do.
Also for that 150 Euros a month plan the server is around 40 Euros with taxes, the backup can be around 20-30 Euros more for such a large diskspace. And the problems, setup, and management a lot more difficult when we talk about such big projects that require such a subscription plan.
I think it is quite cheap the way I provide it. And if you think it is not, then fine. I cannot drop the cost lower than that. Anyone is free to either install their own instances or make their own websites, or even use ours at trom.tf.
... show moreLook I know very well that managed servers are 5-10 times the price of unmanaged ones. Go on the contabo website, select that 40 Eu
I am 1 person I manage 30+ websites that are free. I am already managing 5 more for WebApe. There is no way I can work on more than 20 websites for WebApe and from my calculations that would get me around the minimum wage where I live. That's the best I can do.
Also for that 150 Euros a month plan the server is around 40 Euros with taxes, the backup can be around 20-30 Euros more for such a large diskspace. And the problems, setup, and management a lot more difficult when we talk about such big projects that require such a subscription plan.
I think it is quite cheap the way I provide it. And if you think it is not, then fine. I cannot drop the cost lower than that. Anyone is free to either install their own instances or make their own websites, or even use ours at trom.tf.
Look I know very well that managed servers are 5-10 times the price of unmanaged ones. Go on the contabo website, select that 40 Euros VPS, then select to have it "managed" and it is 100 more Euros a month. And that management means server management not installing Mastodon or other such services, designing websites, providing support with them and so forth.
I think what I provide via WebApe is super cheap now that I think about it.
Mark likes this.
joene π΄π΅πΈ:rojava:
in reply to Tio • • •As said, I don't criticize you because of the fact you want to make money of it. It's about not transparent about how that figure is calculates. I also have VPS's at Contabo and that's why I immediately recognized the VPS SSD XL and I was surprised by that β¬150. BTW, I'm living below minimum wage and I do everything for free (but I do only activist related stuff).
Anyway, good luck!
Tio
in reply to joene π΄π΅πΈ:rojava: • •I don't think it makes sense to explain these. As you see I am transparent when you ask me. There is nothing to hide.
And that's awful and great at the same time. We should not struggle to live in this world, but it is fantastic that you do free things. I've always done free things except WebApe that I started a year ago out of desperation because I was broke. Even now we live 2 people with some half the minimum wage in spain. It is fine for us we don't need expensive stuff.
Anyway, if you look at how much I charge I think it is way bellow what normally it is charged for hosting + webdesign + webmanagement.
joene π΄π΅πΈ:rojava: likes this.
Tio
in reply to joene π΄π΅πΈ:rojava: • •blaine
in reply to Tio • • •Tio
in reply to blaine • •blaine
in reply to Tio • • •fair enough; I and a number of others who have been around the fediverse for a long time are worried that the existing tools and support aren't enough, and there are a number of conversations around making things better.
What would make it possible for you to ensure that the instances people host with you (and other providers, not trying to single you out, just hoping to learn!) are able to offer meaningful and sustainable moderation/trust and safety support?
(Cc'ing @evan & @timbray)
blaine
in reply to blaine • • •I'd also point to @danhon's thread here: dan.mastohon.com/@danhon/10940β¦ to explain a bit more about where I'm coming from in asking the question.
Also, any number of threads from @tomcoates and @shengokai are, I think, important reading. As someone looking to host a bunch of instances, you're in a unique and enviable position to help the community get moderation right! π
Dan Hon (@danhon@dan.mastohon.com)
MastohonTio
in reply to blaine • •I too had very long discussions about moderation, and I even made some podcasts about it with some of the people behind Friendica videos.trom.tf/w/iNo3k26oW2xP1…
But I may have a more non-popular view about it. I came to the fediverse some 2 years ago from the ad-networks like facebook, youtube, or twitter, where the content I have produced since around 2007 has been slashed, squashed, banned, chopped and mutilated by these networks for "moderation" reasons, despite me keeping things as scientific as possible. For example writing books about the human behavior, presenting scientific articles, yet having my posts/videos taken down simply because I was mentioning sexuality and showcasing some naked bodies. That's one small example.
And so I do not agree that one or a handful of people should decide what the rest are allowed to post online. I agree that if you make an instance about cats and some want to post about dogs, it is right to not accept that since you c
... show moreI too had very long discussions about moderation, and I even made some podcasts about it with some of the people behind Friendica videos.trom.tf/w/iNo3k26oW2xP1β¦
But I may have a more non-popular view about it. I came to the fediverse some 2 years ago from the ad-networks like facebook, youtube, or twitter, where the content I have produced since around 2007 has been slashed, squashed, banned, chopped and mutilated by these networks for "moderation" reasons, despite me keeping things as scientific as possible. For example writing books about the human behavior, presenting scientific articles, yet having my posts/videos taken down simply because I was mentioning sexuality and showcasing some naked bodies. That's one small example.
And so I do not agree that one or a handful of people should decide what the rest are allowed to post online. I agree that if you make an instance about cats and some want to post about dogs, it is right to not accept that since you clearly said the instance is about cats. So people should decide about their own instances but never ban other instances at the instance level. If the cat people want to talk to the dog people, let them do.
Now I get that there is a lot of harmful content out there. The classic one is child porn. I agree it is inhumane to abuse humans, of all ages I would add. But I would say depictions of fame, fortune, advertising of any kind, depictions of guns or violent games, are also extremely harmful. And thus my point: who decides where to draw the line? It is complicated....
I run a Friendica instance and a Peertube one. Friendica for now is not moderated to see where it leads. So far no issues. Peertube I had to impose a thematic to get rid of idiots, and so far it works. If your videos are not about science/tech/education in English, they are removed.
Therefore after many long discussion about moderation on the fediverse I think the solutions are:
Ok that was a lot of writing.
However when it comes to WebApe it is way beyond me what people do with the technical service I provide.
Rokosun likes this.