Tio

tio@social.trom.tf

A bunch of atoms that are curious about the world, but furious about the society. We should help all humans to have a decent life without any strings attached, so that we can understand us, the atoms, and the rest of the universe. And create a smarter and saner society.

Since 2005 I make documentaries, write books, and enable many trade-free platforms for everyone.

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Earth

@tio:matrix.org

https://www.tiotrom.com/

Tio

4 years ago

Tio
4 years ago

What do you think is the best decentralized messengers that also supports video/audio calls, groups, sync between devices? Like, p2p decentralized. Not Signal and the like. We are currently testing qTox and Jami.

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in reply to Tio

Rokosun

in reply to Tio 4 years ago

I'm also doing the same thing here, but on android. From my testing, the jami android app had some stability issues, so I uninstalled it. Briar and atox were more stable in my experience, but these apps lack certain features. As of now, briar can't send photos or videos. So I uninstalled that too, and sticked with atox. Atox is still in beta I think, and it don't support calls, groups, etc yet. But these features are supported by the tox protocol, so it will probably come soon on atox too.

Alexio likes this.

in reply to Rokosun

Rokosun

in reply to Rokosun 4 years ago

But after some long term usage, I noticed that android was killing my background connection on atox. I tried disabling battery optimization and all that, but it didn't work. I'm using an MIUI device, which is known for this problem so it could just be my phone. Anyway, now I'm feeling like I should give briar another try, this time testing for long term usage. I was also attracted by other features on it, like Tor, blog & forum support, wifi & Bluetooth connections etc.

Alexio likes this.

in reply to Rokosun

Rokosun

in reply to Rokosun 4 years ago

Looking at their github repo, they're also trying to add image and video support to briar, this would make the experience similar to atox.

On the UI, jami was the best, followed by atox and briar. But briar really nails it on security, privacy, anonymity and free speech. I hope these technologies improve in the future.

Not p2p but I heard that session messenger will soon be adding voice and video calls over Tor. I Haven't tested it, but its pretty user friendly from what I hear.

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in reply to Rokosun

Tio

in reply to Rokosun 4 years ago

I agree. Jami seems the most modern looking and can almost sync between multiple instances - like say you have it on your desktop and also on your phone - you expect for everything to sync (messages, files sent, conversations, contacts, etc.). And Jami is a hit or miss but they are trying to finally solve this issue. If they fix it then Jami is a great one. Tox with qTox for desktop works like a charm, but cannot sync with any mobile Tox client from what I can tell... Briar seems too new for now so I will wait and see. Session looks great and if they add video/audio then that's gonna change it into a proper messenger.

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in reply to Tio

cos

in reply to Tio 4 years ago

Matrix is what everyone including major FOSS organizations are moving to from IRC and various centralized options. Maybe it fits your needs?

in reply to cos

Rokosun

in reply to cos 4 years ago

XMPP is also a good choice if you're going with the federation approach. XMPP is actually a lot lighter on server resources compared to matrix, this could be important for a healthy federation.
@tio

@Tio

Alexio likes this.

in reply to Rokosun

cos

in reply to Rokosun 4 years ago

nothing against XMPP, but it is just not used much in my bubble. You can run a modern Matrix server on RPi4 or cheap VPS if needed, I don't consider it being much of an issue. Majority of users just use existing servers.

in reply to cos

Tio

in reply to cos 4 years ago

But Matrix is server dependent. You need to make an account with one of the Matrix providers...XMPP is the same. These are not really decentralized.

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in reply to Tio

cos

in reply to Tio 4 years ago

If you mean they are not P2P, that is true. P2P Matrix is planned and demoed but not usable for long time. P2P has some benefits but I don't consider it important yet for the big picture. What we need is FOSS decentralized messaging to replace the centralized silos.

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in reply to cos

Tio

in reply to cos 4 years ago

But is so useful to have direct p2p without a middle party that can always temper with the connection or messages. Retroshare is another one that seems great yet quite oldish and it never really worked well from our tests. Also probably no mobile app for it....

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in reply to Tio

cos

in reply to Tio 4 years ago

Well, there is E2EE which prevents servers from tampering or even seeing messages. Of course server admins have power to disable your account, that is something P2P would prevent as it's practically a server in your device.

Here's a detailed post about the planned P2P implementation: matrix.org/blog/2020/06/02/int…

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Hex

in reply to Tio 4 years ago

You can always cut out the middle-party by setting up you own Matrix/XMPP-Servers.

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in reply to Hex

Tio

in reply to Hex 4 years ago

It is true, but the vast majority of people are unable to do this. But if you have a true p2p app like say Jami or qTox, then users only have to install the app (like they normally do) and that's it. No friction ;). I think that's very important if you want such tools to spread.

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in reply to Tio

Hex

in reply to Tio 4 years ago

Absolutely. But at the current state one could argue that setting up a server and using somewhat polished clients may actually be less friction than struggling with the current incarnations of p2p messengers.

To be clear: I'm excited about the p2p solutions mentioned and can't really say anything about how "easy" they are as I didn't test them in ages. But if you ask for the "best" currently available tool, self hosting may be an option to consider.

Alexio likes this.

in reply to Hex

Tio

in reply to Hex 4 years ago

Yes p2p msg apps right now are not super reliable, but if I think about my parents, friends, and people I know, I don't think anyone could setup their own server for Matrix or XMPP, but pretty much all of them can install one of those p2p apps. Several of which work quite great. I tested qTox for a while and it really is reliable between computers. Jami looks great and works great, but cannot sync properly with the mobile app. The rest lack features like video/audio calls or group chats, but for simple messages they seem to work great.

Alexio likes this.

in reply to Hex

Tio

in reply to Hex 4 years ago

I mean I could setup a Matrix or XMPP server, we already provide a plethora of services at trom.tf/ - so I could help all of those people I know in that regards, but I'd prefer to not be responsible for such things if possible. ;) - I'd like for people to use p2p apps rather the services we provide.

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Hex

in reply to Tio 4 years ago

Thanks for providing those services! ❤

Another strategy is making selfhosting easier. FreedomBox, YUNOhost and Freedombone all come with XMPP and Matrix servers included I think.

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in reply to Hex

Tio

in reply to Hex 4 years ago

True! We use YNH and simply because of them we were able to provide many services. However I think is a lot better to have p2p apps that any user can use and become a node by using them. So no servers needed, no setup and stuff like that. I think that's the future. ;)

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in reply to Tio

Forever

in reply to Tio 4 years ago

Personally I like Briar.

Alexio likes this.

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Tio 4 years ago •

Tio
4 years ago