Why the fediverse will get corrupted
Any federated platform: Mastodon, Friendica, Peertube, Pixelfed, you name it - will get as corrupted as Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, and the like if the trade society we live in takes a hold of them. What do I mean by that?
If your platform is based on trades, it means that it wants something from the users (a trade). Their currency (say a subscription for access or for more features, a badge and such), their data (it collects the user data and trades it for currency or influence and the like), or attention (will insert ads into the platform). These are the methods used to trade in the online world. And any federated platform is subject to these practices.
When any platform engages into trades with their users, the balance of motivation tilts. And the owners of that instance will have to prioritize whatever it is traded (data, currency, attention). And you guessed it, they will become just like Facebook, Twitter or Youtube. Business as usual, quite literally.
Does not matter that these platforms are "federated" since big instances can user their influence and power to keep users on their platforms. Can stop defederating with any other platform and force their users to only use the instance via their own trade-based apps.
This is what we are trying to scream about at TROM for the past 10+ years. Everything gets eventually corrupted by TRADE. Nature, websites, people, projects. Everything.
Read The Origin of Most Problems book where we detail all of it.
So don't get fooled by "federation", "open source", and the like. All of them can and are being corrupted by this trade based society. Therefore we need trade-free platforms more than open source or federated ones, so that we remove the bad incentive of trade. Trade-free can also be federated and open source, and in fact it encourages these other practices.
like this
Tio, Overloaded, Mark, Informa Pirata, Georgi and Roma like this.
masyukun
in reply to TROM • • •TROM
in reply to masyukun • •Roma likes this.
PublicLewdness reshared this.
masyukun
in reply to TROM • • •TROM
in reply to masyukun • •It is "trade-free" for the end user, that's how we explain it, since that's reasonable. Anything else is not, since you can always find someone trading something in the chain of production/distribution.
So for example for me Wikipedia is trade-free. I do not trade anything to them in order to access Wikipedia. Not my data, not my attention (seeing ads), not my currency. Therefore, Wikipedia is trade-free for everyone.
If we could create more and more such trade-free goods/services we will enlarge the chain of them, little by little. We have a big directory of trade-free goods and services here directory.trade-free.org/ so there are many already, but we need a lot more. And that's what we try to push for.
masyukun
in reply to TROM • • •That sounds like parasitism, which has a negative connotation in English, but not in nature.
I *do* contribute to Wikipedia, podcasts and artists I love on Patreon, and my Mastodon server because while the system can handle a degree of parasitism, if everyone paid nothing then the things in the commons that we love would shrivel and die.
Cătă likes this.
TROM
in reply to masyukun • •I would call it "helpism". Parasites leech on a host to survive for their own benefit, at least most of the time. We help each other, not leeching on anyone's work. It is not about paying, is about contributing. The "pay" part is simply forcing/making others do the things they may not want to do otherwise. And we could overcome that we argue. And we should. It is not ok to have a system in which humans do not want to do this or that, but we force them to, else they can't survive.
We provide endless examples of trade-free goods/services created by organizations and individuals all around the world, and in a plethora of domains. So this is not just a wishful thinking.
Marc "Blackie" DuQuesne
in reply to TROM • • •@masyukunDo you consider the value 4 value model as just another version of trade?
value4value.info/
V4V - A New Way to Think about Value
value4value.infoSchianali likes this.
hackbyte (friendica) 13HB1
in reply to TROM • • •@TROM Hrm .. i don't believe so ....
The #FediVerse is neither a corporated space nor even a heterogenous collection of servers but .. way more than that.
I don't see any chance for things to happen as you describe. For a simple example, _ANY_ instance on the #FediVerse which distributes ads will probably immediately get blocked and defederated...
It's just not the same as if one entity would control it all.
Btw .. who is trom? Looks some bit like a one man show to me ... can you tell me more? ;)
TROM
in reply to hackbyte (friendica) 13HB1 • •Let's hope you are right, but do not underestimate the force of trade in this society. The more popular the fediverse becomes, the more trade schemes will appear. For example there is already a plugin for Peertube (the main federated video platform out there) that allows admins to enable ads inside the video player. It is already here. And if some big instances start to implement it, others will follow.
These schemes will slowly get under the skin of people in ways that they will get used to them. Will see what this all will become, but we have to be aware of this risk.
... show moreIt is a project I (Tio) started in 2011 with the release of
Let's hope you are right, but do not underestimate the force of trade in this society. The more popular the fediverse becomes, the more trade schemes will appear. For example there is already a plugin for Peertube (the main federated video platform out there) that allows admins to enable ads inside the video player. It is already here. And if some big instances start to implement it, others will follow.
These schemes will slowly get under the skin of people in ways that they will get used to them. Will see what this all will become, but we have to be aware of this risk.
It is a project I (Tio) started in 2011 with the release of the TROM Documentary. Since then and with the help of a bunch of other people we have created a lot more (books, software, websites, etc). See here.
Now there are a handful of people who are helping with the project, although it is true I am the main one working on it.
Schianali likes this.
Schianali
in reply to TROM • • •'Anything one gets for free is worth what one paid for it.'
Outbid the advertisers. :)
hackbyte (friendica) 13HB1
in reply to Schianali • • •@Schianali @TROM Traditionally, instances are financed by the host. Often, they get donations or money using patreon and other ways.
The #FediVerse doesn't exist just since this year ...... some instances are several years old ... and still financially healthy. ;)
Nobody want's ads. So we are kind to our hosts. ;)
Schianali likes this.
TROM
in reply to hackbyte (friendica) 13HB1 • •Schianali likes this.
hackbyte (friendica) 13HB1
in reply to TROM • • •By the way ... you can see the extend of this resiliency here:
ft.com/content/de808736-2e05-4…
"Twitter rival Mastodon rejects funding to protect non-profit status
Fast-growing open-source microblogging site has seen a surge of interest since Elon Musk took over Twitter"
;)
TROM
in reply to hackbyte (friendica) 13HB1 • •hackbyte (friendica) 13HB1
in reply to TROM • • •@TROM But you know the difference between mastodon.social the mastodon site and joinmastodon.org the landing page, right?
Additionally, getting your logo into a sponsor-page is a way different thing than placing actual ads... ;)
Schianali likes this.
TROM
in reply to hackbyte (friendica) 13HB1 • •From my knowledge both websites are managed by the same person. And yes, of course, adding those logo-ads on the joimastodon and the documentation website is different from adding ads to the main mastodon instance, but it is a hint as to where the mentality is. As in, they are ok to accept "sponsors" that are companies, and reward these sponsors by giving them some ad space.
The post above is not about this, mind you. But about the real possibility of monetizing the fediverse too.
Schianali likes this.
hackbyte (friendica) 13HB1
in reply to TROM • • •@TROM And you can't monetize the #FediVerse at a whole...
Mastodon is a bit different as it is a german GmbH owning said domains. But he already showed his disinterest in financial investments....
Schianali likes this.
TROM
in reply to hackbyte (friendica) 13HB1 • •Schianali likes this.
Schianali
in reply to TROM • • •distributed social media network practical now ?
hackbyte (friendica) 13HB1
in reply to Schianali • • •@Schianali @TROM It is to some extend..
Heck you can rent serverspace with preinstalled mastodon if you want. ;)
hackbyte (friendica) 13HB1
in reply to TROM • • •@TROM Update; right now you can still see the remnants of someone trying to forcefully commercialize just a part of the #fediverse..
Here it started; techhub.social/@cloy/109598814… but it's already gone.
Here you can see the local copy still saved on my home instance. friendica.utzer.de/display/118…
And here is how it ended:
techhub.social/@nicdex/1096004…