It is all about trade.
When you go into a supermarket, you take some food, you then expect to give (trade) a currency for it to the cashier. Simple. We are all used to that. This is a "trade". To unwrap this a bit, you have to trade your skills, time, energy and so forth in this society (and you do that via a job), to then get a representation of that called currency (money in our case), to then trade that for your needs and wants.
You trade your skills/time/energy.
You get a currency.
You trade that currency for food/services/stuff.
That's how our world-wide society works.
In the digital space these trades have become more shady and hidden. You go on Facebook and you get the impression that it is free. However what Facebook wants is your data/attention and at times currency (buy this, promote that). It is like going into a supermarket that has no prices and cashiers, but it knows your credit card information because when you entered the store you "agreed" with their "terms and conditions". And so they charge you little by little without even telling you.
Therefore, Facebook, Google and pretty much all websites out there are trade-based - similar to any supermarket. You have to trade to them your energy/attention/data/currency in the same way that you trade to any store out there.
If we want to create a sane society overall, we have to provide trade-free goods/services, much like Wikipedia does, or Doctors Without Borders, and many nonforprofits out there.
And that's what we do see: trade-free.org/ or trom.tf/ or tromsite.com/
ZeitgeistMalaysia
in reply to TROM • •Tio
in reply to ZeitgeistMalaysia • •Alexio likes this.
ZeitgeistMalaysia
in reply to Tio • •Hi Tio, ok, if you wanted to understand the intention of the commune housing project, here it goes
Everyday millions of people wake up and enslaved by the system
Capitalism and exploitation will remain
TZM is advocating basic necessities of life such as water/electricity/shelter/food/etc should be made as fundamental human rights even though all human is not working, there is no one need to be sacrificed nor being exploited by fully embrace/implement today's available automation and technology.
But outdated monetary and capitalism has hindered progress of automation and commodify those basic necessities
Therefore war, poverty, deprivation, economy inefficieny, drudgery workplace for the sake of labor for income continue to exist
It is not about blaming certain human or society is bad, but economy structure is designed similar to monopoly game/musical chair game, victimize player, aka violent structure
Hence the idea of commune housing was born
... show moreCommune housing itself is a project modifying violent structure (on permanent basis) to a more civilized v
Hi Tio, ok, if you wanted to understand the intention of the commune housing project, here it goes
Everyday millions of people wake up and enslaved by the system
Capitalism and exploitation will remain
TZM is advocating basic necessities of life such as water/electricity/shelter/food/etc should be made as fundamental human rights even though all human is not working, there is no one need to be sacrificed nor being exploited by fully embrace/implement today's available automation and technology.
But outdated monetary and capitalism has hindered progress of automation and commodify those basic necessities
Therefore war, poverty, deprivation, economy inefficieny, drudgery workplace for the sake of labor for income continue to exist
It is not about blaming certain human or society is bad, but economy structure is designed similar to monopoly game/musical chair game, victimize player, aka violent structure
Hence the idea of commune housing was born
Commune housing itself is a project modifying violent structure (on permanent basis) to a more civilized version
Free facility is giving members/resident a space/meeting to focus on relevant project/real world solutions
I have been following TZM for more than 10-15 years, im not gonna wait for others to take action
"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.― Richard Buckminster Fuller"
Moving from primitive (self-based capitalism) to a more civilized/advanced & sharing society
As a transition project, moving towards post scarcity model
The new human rights movement
hope i answered your question
Tio
in reply to ZeitgeistMalaysia • •Thanks for the answer. I am very familiar with all of these. We've been around for 10+ years and I worked with TVP directly for more than 4. There are a few points I'd like to make and questions to ask:
- When I moved away from TVP I did so after writing this book: The Money Game and Beyond tromsite.com/books/#flipbook-d… - I realized one fundamental thing: when TVP/TZM and others talk about the system, capitalism, the monetary system, and so forth, they are all using a lot of words to describe the same simple thing. TRADE. We live in a trade-based society, regardless if you call it capitalism, free market, markets, communism in china or whatever. Therefore money, cryptocurrencies, data trading, attention economy, social credits and so forth, are all very well explained by this trade-based society. I then wrote a huge book explaining all of that:
... show moreThanks for the answer. I am very familiar with all of these. We've been around for 10+ years and I worked with TVP directly for more than 4. There are a few points I'd like to make and questions to ask:
Cheers!
ZeitgeistMalaysia
in reply to Tio • •1.) yes, trade is main source of the problem. so in my approach to creating a trade free society, im offering free facility for members, so they can either stay or use, there is no limit
2.) yes, trade free, thats why commune housing is free to use, but at the moment only for members due to limited resource
3.) i dont have any connection with forest city, i am the property owner in 1 of the small unit there, im tzm members myself, and trying to contribute what resource i have to offer, so im telling members you now can use my facility. thats is all
4.) property developer do not know i m trying to start a commune housing project there, it is only 1 unit of apartment out of 9999 they have there, they wont bother. but to create abundance and post scarcity, i wanted to collect donation in future, so those member who are not able to get involved but still wanted to, the easiest way is donation, i will keep buying another property and property, snowball the effect from there and hopefully movement will grow bigger
Tio
in reply to ZeitgeistMalaysia • •So basically this city is just yet another trade-based city. And what you are saying is that you have a "small unit" there. You mean an apartment? And you want to let others use your apartment trade-free (you don't ask for anything in return)? Am I getting it right?
If so, that's very nice of you, but it means it has nothing to do with that city, since that city is just like many others. It is about providing some trade-free accommodation. And of course, who can come and stay for long on Malaysia? You need a VISA and all that. Seems complicated. Plus trust of course.
We would like to do a TROMcast and discuss about this idea of building communities or a city. Is it feasible? Is it relevant? Would you like to participate?
ZeitgeistMalaysia
in reply to Tio • •yes i have a small apartment there, and already paid off the loan, no debt. only member and those who understand the idea behind trade-free allowed to stay, otherwise normal people is not allowed, as they wont appreciate it. but as an apartment owner or if members stay there, they must pay a maintenance fee, which is in RM (ringgit malaysia) approx RM200 plus, and you need to pay your own utilities, electricity and water bill. lets say RM100 plus per month, total about RM300 plus a month & your own food
RM300 is around $US72 dollar & your own food a month maybe RM700, more or less depend how much grocery you are spending. RM700 is around $US169. so total RM1000 (US$242) a month
for your question about VISA, this is the reason why i buy at forest city, it is situated between malaysia (johor) and singapore, it is meant for international community. forest city have resident from 33 nationalities, but at the moment majority is foreigner from china
for visa workaround, lets assume after covid is resolved, you can use tourist visa travel back and forth as many
... show moreyes i have a small apartment there, and already paid off the loan, no debt. only member and those who understand the idea behind trade-free allowed to stay, otherwise normal people is not allowed, as they wont appreciate it. but as an apartment owner or if members stay there, they must pay a maintenance fee, which is in RM (ringgit malaysia) approx RM200 plus, and you need to pay your own utilities, electricity and water bill. lets say RM100 plus per month, total about RM300 plus a month & your own food
RM300 is around $US72 dollar & your own food a month maybe RM700, more or less depend how much grocery you are spending. RM700 is around $US169. so total RM1000 (US$242) a month
for your question about VISA, this is the reason why i buy at forest city, it is situated between malaysia (johor) and singapore, it is meant for international community. forest city have resident from 33 nationalities, but at the moment majority is foreigner from china
for visa workaround, lets assume after covid is resolved, you can use tourist visa travel back and forth as many times as you want between singapore and malaysia.. lol. you can check google map it is only 16km to reach singapore.
im not sure how tromcast work, but idea of building community of city requires a lot of money, i can participate if you give more specific instruction, but keep in mind, at the end of the day, money still talks...
Tio
in reply to ZeitgeistMalaysia • •I see thanks for the explanation. This is more clear to me now. I've heard of many many such initiatives. From Mauritius to Cuba and in-between. There are a lot of people, especially around TVP/TZM who want to provide such free accommodation services. But I haven't heard from any of them for a while now. I do not know how practical this is, but I appreciate the initiative.
We can talk more about such approaches of creating little communities or the idea of a city in tromcast. We have a chat at tromsite.com/chat we can talk more about it there, but for sure we will make a tromcast soon about this topic. So if you can participate that'd be cool.
ZeitgeistMalaysia
in reply to Tio • •this is the apartment interior
before renovation this is how it looks like : youtube.com/watch?v=bKMPwVSGrQ…
ok, i will try participate if the time zone permits
Tio
in reply to ZeitgeistMalaysia • •ZeitgeistMalaysia
in reply to Tio • •Tio
in reply to ZeitgeistMalaysia • •ZeitgeistMalaysia
in reply to Tio • •bro.. its real
their ecology course here : mp.weixin.qq.com/s/JSnMQfbs50Z…
plant dictionary : mp.weixin.qq.com/s/QBKb7Ij5gTo…
"..Forest City has built 4 sewage treatment plants with a total capacity of approximately 170,400 P.E. After an advanced ecological sewage treatment system and a wetland treatment, the effluent water quality is able to meet CLASS II B standard, which is higher than the ordinary discharge standard in Malaysia. The effluent will then be used for irrigation of roof gardens, vertical greenery, outdoor landscapes, as well as public toilet flushing, etc. Currently, most of the water for irrigation in Forest City comes from reclaimed water. In the future, desalination will also be implemented to enhance the efficiency of water resources utilization...”
source : markets.businessinsider.com/ne…
Tio
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Tio
in reply to ZeitgeistMalaysia • •ZeitgeistMalaysia
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