Snippet from Culture Cancer:
In fact I’ve been living in Catalonia for 15 years now and I noticed a concerning trend. At least from my own perspective. Despite people here knowing Spanish perfectly fine, at times they may only choose to speak Catalan with you, even when you try to speak Spanish with them.
When I was taking driving lessons and was in the car with other Catalan students, I would mention that I only understand Spanish and not Catalan. And yet they would only speak Catalan with themselves and the teacher. Marginalizing me. The teacher had to awkwardly translate from Catalan to Spanish for me, despite the fact that everyone in that car knew Spanish…So why not simply speak Spanish then!? For me is a no-brainer.
When you have to deal with the hospital here, they will always send you messages or print medical results or treatments into Catalan, despite you making them aware that you do not understand Catalan. A reminder that Spanish is also an official language in Catalonia.
It is so awkward to go into a shop, open the conversation in Spanish, and only be replied in Catalan. So they understand, but refuse to speak Spanish. By “they” I do not mean all, but a good chunk of the people I have interacted with. Granted I rarely interact with people. But still, this is something well known in Catalonia.
#catalonia #language #marginalization #culture #trom #tromsite #catalunia #catala #catalan #spain
Joan CiberSheep (ell/això)
in reply to Tio • • •«No pots pretendre que tothom canviï per tu. Ets tu qui t'has d'integrar».
Una dona que ha viscut sempre a regions monolingües.
Després de 15 anys, es discrimina ell tot sol. I ara plora? Au, va!
Tio
in reply to Joan CiberSheep (ell/això) • •Well Joan you reply to a post in English by writing in Catalan. How come?
If you already know English, the best is to write in English. Else communication is either impossible or difficult.
Same is true for the Catalans who know Spanish. If you already know a common official language why not use it? It is a simple question.
Joan CiberSheep (ell/això)
in reply to Tio • • •Jo no som català, però sa meva llengua ho és. Gent que després de viure 15 anys a una nació i ve a imposar l'ús de l'idioma de la colònia (sigui foraster o sigui anglès) i esperant que sempre, sempre, sempre vos contestem en el vostre idioma, és com a poc, de maleducats. I ens hem cansat.
Si el vostre esforç és només per queixar-vos de la llengua pròpia del lloc on viviu, doncs, mira, aquí ho deixam. Adéu
Tio
in reply to Joan CiberSheep (ell/això) • •The article from where the snippet is looks at why groups of people fight with other groups. I also look at the history of Catalonia, the Franco era, to understand perhaps why are the Catalans so hurt when others do not speak Catalan. If you are curious you can read the entire article.
No one forces you to speak another language now. Everyone in Catalonia is free to speak Catalan. School is primarily in Catalan. Everything else is in Catalan only or Catalan primarily. So no one is stopping the Catalans from exercising their cultural traditions or anything else.
This being said, perhaps you should reconsider your anger since no one here wants to attack "your culture and language".
If you know a common language, you should use it. I speak english, romanian, and some spanish. If I knew Catalan I would speak Catalan.
The point is that by having this attitude towards those who do not speak Catalan, all you do is to make them angry and disgusted at your "language and culture". And this is not good for anyone.
If you wonder how come I lived in this region of
... Show more...The article from where the snippet is looks at why groups of people fight with other groups. I also look at the history of Catalonia, the Franco era, to understand perhaps why are the Catalans so hurt when others do not speak Catalan. If you are curious you can read the entire article.
No one forces you to speak another language now. Everyone in Catalonia is free to speak Catalan. School is primarily in Catalan. Everything else is in Catalan only or Catalan primarily. So no one is stopping the Catalans from exercising their cultural traditions or anything else.
This being said, perhaps you should reconsider your anger since no one here wants to attack "your culture and language".
If you know a common language, you should use it. I speak english, romanian, and some spanish. If I knew Catalan I would speak Catalan.
The point is that by having this attitude towards those who do not speak Catalan, all you do is to make them angry and disgusted at your "language and culture". And this is not good for anyone.
If you wonder how come I lived in this region of Spain, Catalonia, for 15 years and I do not know Catalan, then that is a reasonable question. Just make sure you ask it to learn not to insult. So let me know if you are curious and I will explain. After all... you would want to know why people like me do not speak Catalan no?
If we are both respectful we could understand each other perhaps.
Joan CiberSheep (ell/això)
in reply to Tio • • •> I also look at the history of Catalonia
I Galícia, País Basc, Balears, Astúries, País Valencià, Extremadura i qualsevol altra nació dins s'Estat Epanyol, idioma del qual, no fos castellà.
> why are the Catalans so hurt when others do not speak Catalan
Sa incomoditat ve quan preteneu integrar-vos només si vos giram la llengua. Però, repetesc, jo no som català.
1/
Joan CiberSheep (ell/això)
in reply to Joan CiberSheep (ell/això) • • •> No one forces you to speak another language now
Sí, si ho feu. Amb lleis, amb publicitat, amb diners i vivint a un lloc negant-vos a aprendre el seu idioma propi. O «exigint» contestar en anglès un tut. Estau massa avesats a que vos girem la llengua.
> no one here wants to attack "your culture and language"
La primera cosa que has dit és justament fer servir qualsevol altre idioma, un de comú.
2/
Joan CiberSheep (ell/això)
in reply to Joan CiberSheep (ell/això) • • •> If you know a common language, you should use it.
Mai aprendràs català (o cap altre idioma) si vos ho parlam.
> I speak english, romanian, and some spanish. If I knew Catalan I would speak Catalan.
El romanès s'assembla molt al català. No pots aprendre català si no te'l xerram.
3/
Joan CiberSheep (ell/això)
in reply to Joan CiberSheep (ell/això) • • •> The point is that by having this attitude towards those who do not speak Catalan
Esteim cansats d'haver d'explicar cada dia perquè volem viure la nostra vida en la nostra llengua. Per exemple, a gent que després de 15 anys, no vol aprendre català perquè ja li poden xerrar en anglès o espanyol.
4/
Joan CiberSheep (ell/això)
in reply to Joan CiberSheep (ell/això) • • •> Just make sure you ask it to learn not to insult.
No t'he insultat. Demanar que giri la llengua és maleducat.
> you would want to know why people like me do not speak Catalan no?
Això, m'ho trob cada dia. Ja em sap greu.
5/5
Tio
in reply to Joan CiberSheep (ell/això) • •The rude part is to know a common language and refuse to use it. If I do not know Catalan, only Spanish, and you know Spanish but refuse to speak Spanish to me, who is the one who is rude? Spanish, is again, one of the 3 official languages of Catalonia - and that should even be besides the point.
So have you looked into why many people come to Catalonia, live here for many years, and do not learn Catalan? What did you find? Because I can tell you from my perspective and the people I know.
And if you can please reply in English to an English written post. This is quite unbelievable and it kinda shows why the situation with the Catalans in Catalonia is cancerous. You simply create an annoyance for both of us. Quite astonishing you decide to reply only in Catalan to an English post - you inserted yourself into "my world" and make it so hard for us to communicate. Use a common language or better not reply.
But honestly I am not surprised...
pomubieng
in reply to Tio • • •Tio
in reply to Joan CiberSheep (ell/això) • •As far as I have observed the Catalans speak Catalan with their Catalan friends and family. No one forces them to speak Spanish. All Catalans can happily live in Catalonia and speak Catalan. Why do you feel so tired? Tired of what? In Nederlands, Andorra, Moldova, Canada, and so on people are perfectly fine to speak 2 or more languages without hating on those who do not speak one or another.
The more languages you speak the better, no? Be happy you know Spanish too, which is spoken by hundreds of millions of people. Isn't that an advantage?
Tio
in reply to Joan CiberSheep (ell/això) • •Idk what you mean. But the translation is correct perhaps: I will never learn Catalan just becuase you force it upon me and only talk Catalan to me.
Again, so far it did not work on me and so many other people to speak Catalan with us and we suddenly to get in loved with the language and speak it. Doesn't work. Is impossible if you are so rude and have this passive-aggressive behavior to make people want to learn your language. And is more to that.
pomubieng
in reply to Tio • • •Tio
in reply to Joan CiberSheep (ell/això) • •No, no one is forced in Catalonia to speak any other language than Catalan. But the Catalans may try to force others to only speak Catalan despite Spanish also being an official language in Catalonia and uderstood by more people in Catalonia than Catalan.
Tio
in reply to Joan CiberSheep (ell/això) • •Even this conversation is an example of the terrible way to try and communicate. If the post is in English, and you translate in Catalan, why can't you at least translate your response to English so I have to do all of the work? That only creates discomfort...
Actually from my experience when you try to force Catalan on people you only make them hate that language. Why do you think if you refuse to speak a common language and force Catalan people would feel like they need to learn Catalan? I and the people I know truly hate this attitude and feel insulted by it. Isn't it something you should consider?
spla
in reply to Tio • • •Els catalans parlem català a casa nostra, és la nostra llengua pròpia i és llengua oficial. Respecte.
Tio
in reply to spla • •Another one who sees a post in English and decides the best is to reply in Catalan. Can't make this shit up...perhaps my article is far more on point than even I thought...
I understand very well that Catalan, Occitan and Spanish are the official languages of Catalonia.
I also speak Romanian at home with my parents. English with my friends who are from different parts of the world. And Spanish in Spain, including Catalonia, as much as I can. You see, the advantage of knowing multiple languages and using them as we should. The purpose of language is to communicate, no?
I ask you kindly to reply to this English post in English, else you are making communication very difficult. And you are the one inserting yourself in this conversation.