We will have a TROMcast (podcast - live) about moderation/censorship on the fediverse (and extend it to "in general"). Around 10th-15th this month. @Hypolite Petovan, @Michael Vogel, @Tobias, @Eugen, @muppeth, any of you interested? Could be an interesting discussion and we will have it for sure, but thought to invite some of you guys.
Let me know and I will create a poll to decide about the date and hour. And let me know what other admins you may know that could participate.
Thank you for the invite, I don't have that much first-hand experience of moderation, I learned a lot from other people but I haven't have the occasion to practice it on my single-user node. I can still come if you'd like, last time was interesting.
@Hypolite Petovan I'd love if you'd come because I also want to talk about moderation at a technical level. Basically what kind of tools/options could be implemented to either moderate or avoid moderation by giving the user the power to self moderate. So it is great that I can count on you. I'll wait to see if others reply and then we can decide for a date/hour. Trying to also get Fredrick Brennan who created 8chan and now he's basically like "I wish it would not have existed" - because he had to deal with a lot of moderation himself. idk if you know him.
@Hypolite Petovan Oh then you are a pure soul :) - 8chan is (was) the mother of all conspiracy theory starters. Like 4chan. Basically no moderation: let users post whatever. Blew up for a few years reaching top 1k websites in the world, then blew away because it was impossible to moderate.
I'm really overwhelmed with things right now, but might like to discuss in the future. TMI: Mom has advanced Parkinson's and I'm trying to still get work done. But I'm also interested in how others are approaching this...for example I'm concerned about the environmental impact of NFTs, but there are folks on my instance posting in favor of them. How are others approaching this.
NFTs I totally get you and I want to discuss such things because many are worried about conspiracy nonsense being posted on their instances, or nudity and such, but what about other things that promote consumerism, energy-consuming currencies, and so forth. Are these not worth "moderating"?
I want to discuss such things and am trying to get on board some admins of relatively large instances (few thousand users).
@Michael Vogel I want to focus on the fediverse more specifically but I want to ask the question "How can we moderate the internet content, or should we moderate it?". You manage a large Friendica node so having you there could be really interesting.
Also, @Aral Balkan f you are interested, we will have a TROMcast (podcast - live) about moderation/censorship on the fediverse (and extend it to "in general"). See the poll here for the dates/hours poll.trom.tf/studs.php?poll=4r… . I have yet to go deeper into your projects and I wanted to invited you to TROMcast at some point, but what I seem to get is that you are proposing for people to "not go big" online in terms of servers, rather use their own. Not many peertube instances, or mastodon, but one and yours. If that's correct. And maybe that has a role to play when it comes to moderation since it takes the toll off admins of such instances. Anyways if you are interested... ;)
If not I plan to look deeper into your project and maybe do a separate one about what you are working on, although we can more than likely do both.
Seems like our rss.trom.tf is getting blocked by youtube too often recently. Had to switch to our backup instance...this takes some 30-40 minutes since I have to do it for hundreds of feeds and rebuild the cache manually.... Now tromnews.com/videos/ works but we have to find a solution for this. #tromlive
After I created the poll about maybe moderating videos.trom.tf/ and added some messages about asking people to not abuse our platform with conspiracy crap, plus after I created a new homepage and front and center is a documentary on the frontpage about the crazy antivaxxers, seems like little to no crap content was uploaded to our instance. What if it works this way? To stop them from uploading in the first place rather than wait for them to upload and then remove their content!?
What if it works to annoy them by making scientific content, and some that debunks their beliefs, front-and-center on our instance?
Lets see. I will push that and wait for our poll to end in a week or so - here it is poll.trom.tf/studs.php?poll=J5… - vote please if you haven't.
After the vote is done I will make another TROMcast and invite admins from other instances if they want to participate. #tromlive
Oh wow so they managed to get 319 terabits/second—across more than 3000 km. This sounds insane. Would it be possible in the future to get such insane speeds for most connections? Well...I remember the old internet when i was downloading movies with 25Kb/s....and now you get 25Mb/s easily. But yah, they are using an extreme setup there to achieve these speeds. In any case, keep an eye on tromnews.com/ for such interesting news ;) #tromlive
Increasing the pm.max_children = to 500 from 5, seems to kinda fix our issues with friendica. We have lots of RAM and CPU power so for now all good. But need to monitor it for longer. I'd be so happy if that fixes our issues with the platform. Didn't sleep much because of this :D. #tromlive
idk what I have done to my Friendica but it shows a 502 Bad Gateway nginx error quite often....I added a few RSS sources from Reddit and that seemed to have messed it up but I don't understand what. I removed them since...
The nginx error logs show stuff like 2021/08/02 07:05:57 [error] 2732#2732: *1092 upstream timed out (110: Connection timed out) while reading response header from upstream, client: ******, server: social.trom.tf, request: "GET /ping?format=json&uid=22&_=1627677955767 HTTP/2.0", upstream: "fastcgi://unix:/var/run/php/php7.3-fpm-friendica.sock", host: "social.trom.tf", referrer: "https://social.trom.tf/network"
Didn't sleep trying to figure it out so am tired sorry for the messy message.
Basically now loads fine for a few minutes, then loads very slow to the point of nginx giving up as explained above. If any of you has any idea what I should try let me know. Gonna have some sleep now, not good to work on such things when you are zombie tired, you may mess things up more.
@Tobias Yes if I add fastcgi_read_timeout 300; proxy_read_timeout 300; to the nginx.conf seems to work, but it takes a while to load...
Question is why Friendica needs more time to answer. That's what confuses me.... it happened right after I added 10 or so RSS feeds as my contacts. I deleted them as quick as I realized that but it seems it made no difference. Something broke.
Is there any hint in the PHP logs or the logs from Friendica? I do not know what to look for in logs more specifically. There are lots of them drive.tromsite.com/s/wgEzn8YG8…
@Michael Vogeli.imgur.com/kU0USu5.png There are a few processes already opened by Friendica. If you can take a look - can't even upload an image here. Also, is it normal to take many hours to restore a Friendica database of around 6GB?
@JB Carrollpm.max_children = 5 and pm.start_servers = 2 if that's what you are asking. I increased these two now to see if it helps. And yes if I restart the php service it is temporary fixed for a few minutes. So maybe that's the issue?
@Michael Vogel @JB Carroll Increased to 50 and seems to work a lot better now. I need to test for the next hours. But if that fixes it I'd be over the moon happy. Thank you and I'll update here!
@JB Carroll 50 seemed too low, we reached that in 10 minutes. Increased to 500. Interesting that until last night we didn't experience an issue with this. Now I see at time over 50 " php-fpm: pool friendica" processes at once. Would that be normal?
There are formulas out there that calculate the best value depending on your memory size, free memory and so on. The best is to have a look at the logfiles to possibly increase the value when havwe got problems.
@Michael Vogel @JB Carroll @Tio if you find a good value, maybe you can add a comment in the nginx example config file about it? Not as fixed value, but as reminder for the admin that this value needs to be looked at.
So with pm.max_children = 500 pm.max_requests = 1000 everything seems to run smoothly. So far so good. Thanks a lot people! You are always so friendly and helpful.
Personally I am not really fan of setting max_children to cosmic values. Increasing the number is IMO dead end. The moment you have all children processes busy your load average will be too high and its the cpu that will become your bottleneck, and once you reach that there will be no extra value to kick up. Surely distro defaults are low, but setting to 500 seems also crazy high.
I noticed that for things like social networks where amount of users online is one thing but the fact there is always content being pulled in and sent out so your instance is busy constantly even without anyone online, setting pm to static is better approach.
The good thing about it is that you dont have to worry about start_servers, spare ones and all that stuff :) . With friendica (or any social network but those originating from Zotlabs specially) works all the time so better to keep it static IMO as your php is busy at all times.
@muppeth I'm just worried I may destroy it haha. I will have to look carefully into how to properly setup the static value. I am a bit in the dark when it comes to calculating the max_children for friendica. But I'll need to look into that for sure. I am wondering tho, even with that cosmic number pm.max_children = 500 if our resources seem to be really ok, is that a bad thing? Now our Friendica works really well and it barely uses our CPU or RAM.
idk what I have done to our Friendica but it shows a 502 Bad Gateway nginx error quite often....and is 7am....tired now, I added a few RSS sources from Reddit and that seemed to have fucked it up but I don't understand what. I removed them since...
The nginx error logs show stuff like 2021/08/02 07:05:57 [error] 2732#2732: *1092 upstream timed out (110: Connection timed out) while reading response header from upstream, client: ******, server: social.trom.tf, request: "GET /ping?format=json&uid=22&_=1627677955767 HTTP/2.0", upstream: "fastcgi://unix:/var/run/php/php7.3-fpm-friendica.sock", host: "social.trom.tf", referrer: "https://social.trom.tf/network"
EDIT: Seems to work better now after restarting the php-fpm...but I'll have to go to sleep...problem with Friendica (social.trom.tf) is that the database is so large I cannot restore it with yunohost...nginx fails (times out...). Anyways I hope will be ok. Will look more into it tomorrow. #tromlive
From my experience adding ton of rss accounts (bif and active) will cause lot of traffic and in return can put the instance down. Next time it happens, check how many fpm processes you have running and how many sql queies are running. If all child processes declared in your php config are in use, your site will be down until either they finish or you restart php.
@muppeth Thanks! Super tired now but I think I get your point. Very happy to see people like jump in with some advice. Will check for those when it happens next and I get some sleep
Privacy Redirect added a Wikipedia option alongside Youtube, Twitter, Insatgram, Google services... I do not agree with their decision and I argued here why github.com/SimonBrazell/privac…
It is weird that they add Wikipedia to the list, as if Wikipedia is a privacy concern, and their reasoning (believe it or not) is that NSA may be infiltrated into Wikipedia...an assumption of course.
On the other hand they add alternatives for reddit such as old.reddit.com that is full of trackers and ads. And for search engines they add ad-based ones like DuckDuckGo, Startpage, Ecosia or Qwant.
The fact that I/we use many of our trom.tf services, makes it a lot more reliable. I keep an eye on these services and I am in need for them to work all the time.
social.trom.tf/ using it daily. It is my main social network
files.trom.tf/ I do not really use it, but I use the same Nextcloud install and kinda the same setup for our drive.tromsite.com, so I kinda know it works well
The fact that I/we use many of our trom.tf services, makes it a lot more reliable. I keep an eye on these services and I am in need for them to work all the time.
social.trom.tf/ using it daily. It is my main social network
files.trom.tf/ I do not really use it, but I use the same Nextcloud install and kinda the same setup for our drive.tromsite.com, so I kinda know it works well
bird.trom.tf/ All the time to pull RSS feeds for a bunch of Twitter accounts I follow on TROMsocial
ytb.trom.tf/ Every day....it is my main way of watching Youtube. Without this I would not watch youtube honestly. And we plan to replace all youtube links from our tromnews.com with RSS ones from our Invidious instance
So the Delta COVID variant is more infectious than the flu (which says a lot), and vaccinated people carry about the same amount of viruses as the un-vaccinated ones. pbs.org/newshour/health/study-…
Which makes you think....the tables have turned....now un-vaccinated people are fucked because they are not even protected by the vaccinated ones. But the vaccinated ones, despite the same load of virus inside of them, are unlikely to experience a severe outcome of the infection.
In other words: the Delta COVID spreads super fast even via vaccinated people. And if you are not vaccinated, then good luck to you! I wish you well, but you may not be.
I am amused at the irony of the situation now....So I'll keep on staying vaccinated and I always wear a mask when I go outside. Do the same you morons! Facebook warriors...psh...
they ain't gonna experience a major illness if hit by covid for one simple reason. they got vaccinated, that's what vaccinations do, help ya immune system get primed for kicking covid's ass.
as for the unvaccinated....
They are waiting for Darwinism to take them... and there has been many cases of unvaccinated regretting their life choices at the death bed
i may Zero apologise for this last bit. cos the unvaxxed are like pack of idiots...
@Lady Death Adder Vaccinated people may experience all kinds of flu-like symptoms. As I understand these covid vaccines prevent severe illness and death. Just to be more exact ;). If you are vaccinated you can still get covid and have some symptoms.
not getting major illness which means to me anyway they won't need hospital visits, ventilators etc
yes you'll get flu symptoms if your vaccinated i was just making a point compared to unvaccinated people vaccinated people are gonna have a lot less issues.....
and there has been documented cases where unvaccinated have died from being an idiot :)
ah right , ya think i would know this fact as i still wear a mask, using hand sanitizer etc even after i got double pfizer'ed (with new installed 5g Capablities!). I'm still being being extra careful even now im vaccinated cos I don't want Delta variant anymore than the next person
I was making a point in my original toot about being vaccinated is way better than being unvaccinated too, sort of got misinterpreted XD
I have to fly tommorow, double vaccinated for >2 months and double masking with consistent hand sani. I don't want delta covid and I don't want to spread it.
Today we will discuss about this notion of moderating the Internet content by looking closely at our videos.trom.tf (Peertube) instance and what happens to it. The fact that it is full of nonsense content and why is it that these alternative platforms such as Peertube, get invaded by the worst that the Internet and our society has produced.
K so tomorrow at 23:00 Madrid time, we do a TROMcast live. May only be me, but I will let anyone participate later on in the cast. I want to explain some stuff before that + talk about some updates. #tromlive
We have updated our Peertube (perfect timing) and we are now able to create our own homepage where we can showcase other Peertube videos/channels/playlists. Tell us if you know any peertube accounts that are sane and relevant. #tromlive
I've done a few last touches to our TROM Friendica themes last night and added a new color to the mix. In case @Hypolite Petovan you still interested in them, I updated them all here drive.tromsite.com/s/zQCd56a6P…
Or for anyone who wants to use them for their Friendica instances.
I managed to be very efficient today and worked a lot on trom.tf. Released TROMmaps officially and made a very cool presentation page for it ;). I like it! And it is such a great tool.
We will also move to Matrix. Our instance works great so far, there are millions using it already, and yeah is simply functional and easy to use. Will make it public soon so anyone can use our instance too. What I love is that so many open source projects already have Matrix rooms and I joined a few like for Invidious, Kdenlive, Matrix, Yunohost, and other, and got in quick and direct touch with the people behind these projects and managed to track down some bugs and ask some questions and such. It is great to have direct access to their chats like that.
Hypolite Petovan
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Hypolite Petovan
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in reply to Tio • •@Kristin Henry, @alarig, @Matt, @Michael Brazda, @Daniel Cid, @Tek resources? Yipe!, @Nathan 🏳️🌈
We will have a TROMcast (podcast - live) about moderation/censorship on the fediverse (and extend it to "in general"). Around 10th-15th this month.
Any of you interested? Could be an interesting discussion and we will have it for sure, but thought to invite some of you guys.
Let me know and I will create a poll to decide about the date and hour. And let me know what other admins you may know that could participate.
This is our cast videos.trom.tf/w/p/n5dfTv4yDdV…
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keeps vis.social running
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Tio
in reply to keeps vis.social running • •@Kristin Henry Sorry to hear about your mom.
NFTs I totally get you and I want to discuss such things because many are worried about conspiracy nonsense being posted on their instances, or nudity and such, but what about other things that promote consumerism, energy-consuming currencies, and so forth. Are these not worth "moderating"?
I want to discuss such things and am trying to get on board some admins of relatively large instances (few thousand users).
Tio
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Michael 🇺🇦
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in reply to Tio • •Hypolite Petovan
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in reply to Tio • •Also, @Aral Balkan f you are interested, we will have a TROMcast (podcast - live) about moderation/censorship on the fediverse (and extend it to "in general"). See the poll here for the dates/hours poll.trom.tf/studs.php?poll=4r… . I have yet to go deeper into your projects and I wanted to invited you to TROMcast at some point, but what I seem to get is that you are proposing for people to "not go big" online in terms of servers, rather use their own. Not many peertube instances, or mastodon, but one and yours. If that's correct. And maybe that has a role to play when it comes to moderation since it takes the toll off admins of such instances. Anyways if you are interested... ;)
If not I plan to look deeper into your project and maybe do a separate one about what you are working on, although we can more than likely do both.