It is true that most trades translate into "money" in today's society. But increasingly cryptocurrencies are getting more popular. However the focus should be on trade else we lose sight with whats happening online where data ant attention are traded without people realizing it.

The incentive is bad overall, from small to big companies, or individuals. Yes most have to trade to survive, and that is very bad and we should change this situation; it is also true that google and the like are not trading in order to survive, but to thrive in an unequal and ass backwards society.

The entire premise of my original post is that it is not good saying "if it's free, you are the product" since for one it makes it seem like whatever is "free" is not to be trusted, and second it gives google and the like approval for using the word "free" for their trade-based services.

Google is trade-based. Facebook is trade-based.
Nextcloud is trade-free. Friendica is trade-free.

This wording makes a lot more sense.

Capitalism is a manifestation of trade, and ill defined for that matter.

As for "it's not trade if it's coerced" - we are mostly coerced to trade nowadays. Want food? Trade your time, energy, skills to someone else, get a currency, go trade it for food. Food is essential yet you have to trade for it, you have no other choice. And so it goes for pretty much anything.

Trade is an exchange, voluntarily or not.

You run a business selling food, you have little choice, you have to pay your rent. I need food. I work, make money, then buy food from you. We were both coerced into this game, now who is stealing from who in his situation?

We can have endless debates as to what we mean by trade, but I go with what is generally understood - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade

I also wrote a book about the evolution of trade - tromsite.com/books/#flipbook-t…

"all employment under capitalism is coerced" I would say most employment on this planet, currently, is coerced. From US to China.

The book that I wrote is digitally available for everyone and every claim is sourced where I claim it. Click and see.

That being said, these isms are a lot of mushy ideas. Also the theory of these ideas can be widely different from their implementation.

And by "no one forced anyone to do this or that", I do not know what you are saying. Of course so many people are forced by others or circumstances. All choices are influenced by external factors: needs, efficiency, fear, etc..

You certainly misunderstood. I did not justify what they are doing, I said what they do is not free to begin with, it is trade-based. This cuts the confusion when people think google and the like are free, and when some say "you are the product". Better say google is trade-based.

I dedicated the past 10+ years showcasing how this is fucked up. How trade is the origin of most problems.

See:
Documentary - tromsite.com/documentaries/tro…
Book - tromsite.com/books/#flipbook-t…

We showcase how we can create trade-free alternatives. And we create/enable a bunch. Just look at tromsite.com and trom.tf.

You got it 180 degrees wrong my friend.

This is so confusing. There are many free things where you are not "the product".*"

If it doesn't has ads and trackers, then yes. Unless it doesn't violates user's privacy.

Thats exactly what I argue there are many trade-free things out there, google aint one. Nor is any that forces you to trade your attention (ads) or data. They are trade-based. BAD

btw learn how to use quotes in friendica.....else it is very confusing....