TROM Social | Community

Should we provide a trade-free online password manager similar to Bitwarden?

The risks are like with any other online password manager: our server can be compromised or not working properly and such, and you may lose all of your passwords. That's the reason we are skeptical about providing such a service. But since it has many advantages like the ease of use across devices, we are thinking of providing such a service.

It is up to you, to let us know if you want that.

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Rokosun

in reply to LPS • 3 years ago • •

I think its the most convenient solution for the average user.
@trom @stux @polezaivsani

@stux⚡ @TROM

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TROM

in reply to Rokosun • 3 years ago •

We provided Bitwarden before for a few weeks but removed it because of lack of time to make sure all is properly setup and well tested. But now am considering going for Vaultwarden and test it for a while, just to make sure all works fine.

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TROM

3 years ago from Feed •

TROM
3 years ago from Feed •

I saw this post about some new and nice features that will land to Nautilus in the next releases. And I thought why not make a post about Thunar, XFCE’s file manager and of course, TROMjaro’s file manager. In a way I can also compare the two.

Thunar vs Nautilus

^{TROMjaro Forum}

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Pixificial

in reply to TROM • 3 years ago • •

Good article. Nautilus is misspelled in the "Conclusion" section though.

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Tio

in reply to Pixificial • 3 years ago •

Thanks I will fix it now

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TROM

3 years ago •

TROM
3 years ago •

"Abuse complaint regarding your server"

The hosting provide that we use for our websites contacted us. Someone sent them an email saying:

Greetings,
This is an official message from AppGate, on behalf of our Banco del Pacifico G.F.
We need your cooperation in the removal of the content located in the site:
bird.trom.tf/BancoPacificoEC
The target site is the following URL(s):
twitter.com/BancoPacificoEC
We kindly ask you to shut down this content as soon as possible. We expect a prompt and affirmative response.
Thanks for helping make the Internet safer.
Sincerely,
DTP Team - Appgate

As far as we understand BancoPacificoEC contacted them to complain that they noticed their "twitter" page accessed via our Nitter instance. But Nitter (bird.trom.tf) does not host any files, it is a proxy (twitter front-end). We have explained it all to the hosting provider. Hopefully they are smart enou

#tromlive

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TROM

in reply to Rokosun • 3 years ago •

Yes exactly...we were not even contacted anymore by anyone since that first email...so...let's see...

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Rokosun

in reply to TROM • 3 years ago • •

I hope everything goes fine.....

TROM

3 years ago •

TROM
3 years ago •

One of my arguments is that one of Elon Musk’s contributions to transportation over the past decade or so is really to try to stifle alternatives, things that would try to get people out of cars. Because he is this automaker, he has this desire for people to take cars instead of taking transit.

Is anyone surprised that Musk's incentive is to sell more cars? The same situation, over and over again, for centuries now. "business" humans trying to trade their shit, one way or another, by all means.

Read the entire interview here, quite telling and not surprising.

#tromlive

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TROM

3 years ago •

TROM
3 years ago •

The ruining of "free" and "donation".

Here's another example of how people are entirely confused about what is free and what is not, and why our trade-free approach makes so much sense.

We have added this peer to peer file sharing app to TROMjaro's Library: SoulSeek. This app is great. It allows you to connect with others directly, and share files with them. No server involved. We wanted to share our VideoNeat library on the network. However if you look closely they limit your experience. And if you donate currency to them you get this:

While they call themselves entirely free:

So, it is free, but you have to pay to unlock certain features....makes so much sense indeed!

Actually they call those trades, donations. And the word and concept of "

#tromlive

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TROM

Unknown parent • 3 years ago •

For one, do not call donations something that you trade. Can I get those "perks" without giving something to those people? No. So this is a trade not a donation. It is clearly stated on their website. As you can see in that image.

Second, they do provide benefits for the software. Permanent username, removal of a possible "annoyance" (donate button), and you get first in line for downloads. These are the things they are selling.

If they would accept donations, then they should not give anything in return for that. Else this is not a donation, it is purchasing. Regardless of what they think of it.

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TROM

Unknown parent • 3 years ago •

No because we are talking about goods and services being trade-free or not. Saying "thank you" is different from providing features that are intentionally restricted for those who do not "donate".

If the SoulSeek people would send "thank yous" and tshirts or whatever to their donors, then maybe we could consider SoulSeek (the software) as trade free since you get whatever everyone gets, regardless if you "donate" to them or not, in terms of that software. But they clearly restrict some features of the software itself, unless you give them currency, and only then they will "unlock" these features.

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Alexio

in reply to TROM • 3 years ago •

Instead of the Soulseek app we could use the Nicotine+ app from nicotine-plus.org/

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TROM

in reply to Alexio • 3 years ago •

Nicotine+ is a graphical client for the Soulseek peer-to-peer network.

It was removed from TROMjaro as well. It has the same "non features" as the main one. You are limited in terms of download queues and such.

There are other trade-free similar apps like tromjaro.com/tixati/ or tromjaro.com/gtk-gnutella/ and so on.

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Rokosun

in reply to TROM • 3 years ago • •

Interesting..... I thought giving a T-shirt for donations would be considered a trade, but I guess if you only look at the software itself then you can say the software is trade-free while the T-shirt is not 🤔
@utopify_org

@maxmoon 🌱

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Rokosun

Unknown parent • 3 years ago • •

Yes, I'm interested to see what @tio has to say about that.

According to me, if you give T-shirts for donations then its definitely a trade and not really a "donation". But the trade-free label is usually applied to goods/services..... So if someone provides a trade-free software that stays the same for ones who donate and those who don't, but for the people who donate they give a T-shirt which has nothing to do with the software itself, then how do we look at it? 🤔
@trom

@Tio @TROM

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TROM

in reply to Rokosun • 3 years ago •

If the SoulSeek people would send "thank yous" and tshirts or whatever to their donors, then maybe we could consider SoulSeek (the software) as trade free since you get whatever everyone gets, regardless if you "donate" to them or not, in terms of that software.

I didn't say that would make the software trade-free but that we could consider it as such. These are "edge" cases and as explained in the main TROM book we should not waste too much time on these because if you put under the microscope any idea/ideal it won't make as much sense.

That being said: if you make a video player that is trade-free, so anyone can enjoy it in any regards and do whatever they want with it without trading for that, but you also say that if anyone donates money to the project, they will get a tshirt back - the player itself is still trade-free since everyone gets access to the same player without trading anything for it. The incentive for donations is a separa

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Rokosun

in reply to TROM • 3 years ago • •

Yes, I remember reading about it in "The origin of most problems" book. We should be focusing on macro trades, instead of micro trades which are these edge cases.
@tio @utopify_org

@Tio @maxmoon 🌱

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Tio

in reply to Rokosun • 3 years ago •

Yeah even the example in this post gets near to the edge case, however it is also clear that they limit the functionality of the software itself if you do not trade currency to them. So the software itself is not entirely trade-free.

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Rokosun

Unknown parent • 3 years ago • •

Okay, so if you're really interested in this trade-free movement and want to learn more about it, then I recommend you read the book "The origin of most problems" from tromsite.com/books

That book specifically deals with this idea and its definition, it'll make you understand the different types of trades there are and how to spot these hidden trades. It also goes a little beyond the trade free concept, with things like VADOSE. You'll definitely learn a lot from it.
@trom @tio

Books

DETAILS TROM ebooks are available in multiple formats: online reading, PDF, Plain Text, audio format, and video.

^TROM

@Tio @TROM

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Rokosun

in reply to Rokosun • 3 years ago • •

And keep in mind that its okay to not have a crystal clear definition of what's trade-free and what's not. The truth is that if you put the microscope on any word then it'll look blurry. Scientists are still confused whether viruses are a living thing or not, so we're still not able to define what life is, even though its such a trivial thing. So if you take any word out of context, then it'll start getting confusing. BTW, there is also a book written about language 🙂
@trom @tio

@Tio @TROM

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Rokosun

Unknown parent • 3 years ago • •

Yes, reading that book will make you understand things better. TROM is actually more like a mindset that you acquire, that's how I feel after closely following this project for the past year or so. And if you really get into it then you'll never stop learning new things, there's always new documentaries coming up on videoneat.com, new #Tromcasts and discussions, etc. You can even call this an educational project if you want 😉
@trom @tio

VideoNeat

curating wonderful science materials for humans DOCUMENTARIES | MOVIES | COURSES | TV …

^VideoNeat

#Tromcasts @Tio @TROM

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Rokosun

Unknown parent • 3 years ago • •

> Okay, the t-shirt for donors is trade-free, because the main product is the software, which should be free for everyone.

I think it'll be more clear if you look at the T-shirt and software as two separate things, one here is trade-free (software which is the same for all), the other one is not trade-free (T-shirt which only donors get).

But that being said, I think this is an edge case where the line becomes a bit blurry. Like asking if a hyena is a cat or a dog 😁

@trom @tio

@Tio @TROM

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Tio

Unknown parent • 3 years ago •

I really want to know in detail were the line is, because how should I understand something, if there isn't even a detailed definition?

As @Rokosun said we go into more detail in the Origin of Most Problems book. Now, the trade-free idea is an "experimental" one, and we label it as such in the book too, where we started it. To define what is trade and what is quite easy in general, but it can become confusing when you go into these edge cases. But it is fine. Everything is like that. The Open source idea is easy to understand, unless you go into the microscopic world of it and realize it may not be as coherent anymore.

So I think we can push it as far as to the example from this post. But what we care mostly about are those macro trades that we describe in the book.

@Rokosun

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aaron

Unknown parent • 3 years ago • •

Great to ask these questions @maxmoon :)
I go with the recommendation to read the book which has a lot of examples to clarify that. Maybe a short and simple example is wikipedia. If wikipedia would allow me to access it only if I give some money, then wikipedia would not be trade-free. If wikipedia allows me to access it (as trade-free), but if I donate to them I get a t-shirt and otherwise I don't get a t-shirt, then the access to Wikipedia is still trade-free, but the t-shirt is not (since I have to give money to them).

In todays world unfortunately, people/organizations are forced to trade so the main goal is to trade less and create more trade-free chains that support each other. Example: There's an organization called "Foodsharing" in germany and while someone could save food from there, he/she could volunteer and code some software that he/she offers as trade-free for others.

@maxmoon 🌱

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TROM

3 years ago •

TROM
3 years ago •

Today we will put our instance (social.trom.tf) in Maintenance Mode to try and improve some things. Be aware of that.

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TROM

3 years ago •

TROM
3 years ago •

A huge and massive thank you again to @Roma for the huge 500 Euros donation to TROM. Amazing help hard to believe. We are working furiously on TROM II and we keep all of our 30+ trade-free projects alive and relevant. Any donation prolongs our work. We do not buy fancy shit, unnecessary things, or anything except food to support us, and pay the bills.

tromsite.com/donate/ #tromlive

#tromlive @Roma

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TROM

3 years ago from Feed •

TROM
3 years ago from Feed •

The usual Manjaro updates, plus: Changing/improving the icons We are using the same icons but instead of using the zafiro-icon-theme-git we are using the zafiro-icon-theme. You can install it from here.

TROMjaro 2022.08.03

^{TROMjaro Forum}

TROM

3 years ago •

TROM
3 years ago •

Thank you for supporting TROM month after month. Even if it is a lot less than we may need, we try to support the project via other means too. We currently have enough funds to work on TROM for a few more months, thanks to your donations. tromsite.com/donate/ #tromlive

#tromlive

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Novak

in reply to TROM • 3 years ago • •

That's awesome!

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TROM

3 years ago •

TROM
3 years ago •

While TROM is focused mostly (if not entirely) on the digital world and creates/enables a ton of trade-free alternatives for digital services, someone like Colin is trying to make people share physical goods, but also services (online or offline). His project ShareBay sharebay.org/ recently got a new design. Check it out and use it if you can.

In the future TROM will also create more such projects that reach beyond the digital, and will try to push the education/information via such projects. We may even collab with Colin on this project.

Great job Colin, one of the few who keeps on being active and doing important projects. #tromlive

#tromlive

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Rokosun

in reply to TROM • 3 years ago • •

Its important to note that trade-free.org is a decentralized movement like the free software movement, so anyone can be a part of it if they want.

Trade-Free

^{trade-free.org}

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Les ami·e·s de la TEP Ménilmontant

4 years ago •

(rue Laurence Savart, Paris 20è, France)

Les ami·e·s de la TEP Ménilmontant
4 years ago — (rue Laurence Savart, Paris 20è, France) •

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Les ami·e·s de la TEP Ménilmontant

4 years ago •

(49 bd Ménilmontant, Paris, France)

Les ami·e·s de la TEP Ménilmontant
4 years ago — (49 bd Ménilmontant, Paris, France) •

Programme de la semaine à la TEP Ménilmontant.

#Paris20è #Paris11è #PèreLachaise #Ménilmontant

#Paris20è #ménilmontant #PèreLachaise #Paris11è

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dariodickens

in reply to Les ami·e·s de la TEP Ménilmontant • 3 years ago •

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Les ami·e·s de la TEP Ménilmontant

4 years ago •

(49 bd Ménilmontant, Paris, France)

Les ami·e·s de la TEP Ménilmontant
4 years ago — (49 bd Ménilmontant, Paris, France) •

Programme de la semaine à la TEP Ménilmontant.

#Paris20è #Paris11è #PèreLachaise #TEPMénilmontant #Ménilmontant

#Paris20è #ménilmontant #programme #PèreLachaise #tepmenilmontant #Paris11è

Les ami·e·s de la TEP Ménilmontant

4 years ago •

(49 bd Ménilmontant, Paris, France)

Les ami·e·s de la TEP Ménilmontant
4 years ago — (49 bd Ménilmontant, Paris, France) •

#Programme de la semaine à la TEP Ménilmontant :

#programme

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Les ami·e·s de la TEP Ménilmontant 4 years ago — (rue Laurence Savart, Paris 20è, France) •

Les ami·e·s de la TEP Ménilmontant 4 years ago — (49 bd Ménilmontant, Paris, France) •

Les ami·e·s de la TEP Ménilmontant 4 years ago — (49 bd Ménilmontant, Paris, France) •

Les ami·e·s de la TEP Ménilmontant 4 years ago — (49 bd Ménilmontant, Paris, France) •

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Les ami·e·s de la TEP Ménilmontant
4 years ago — (rue Laurence Savart, Paris 20è, France) •

Les ami·e·s de la TEP Ménilmontant
4 years ago — (49 bd Ménilmontant, Paris, France) •

Les ami·e·s de la TEP Ménilmontant
4 years ago — (49 bd Ménilmontant, Paris, France) •

Les ami·e·s de la TEP Ménilmontant
4 years ago — (49 bd Ménilmontant, Paris, France) •