It is your fault!!
By Tio.
Yesterday my family got 2.200 Euros withdrew from their bank account. By some "name". Search online, go to the bank, and find out it is the government. Or at least a gov institution. The bank sends you home because they can't tell you why that is. You are home, confused. What to do? Ask around....or ask a lawyer. Ok, fine, ask a lawyer. They charge you. They say the money was withdrew because of a fine that likely you didn't pay in time.
What?!
Go to another gov institution where the lawyer sends you. They say: "Yeah, you got 2 speed tickets last year and you did not pay in time!". But my family did not receive any notification....
Go to the police, dig deeper by yourself. Find out that when we bought our car, years ago, they failed to add an address to the car. By "they" I mean the authorities in charge of that. So when the police caught us "breaking" the law, via automated radars a year ago, they looked for the plate number then they found out the name of the owner of the car (my father), and associated that name with the address my father had on its Spanish identity card (he is a resident here in Spain). Documents that were made 15 years ago. So they sent the notifications to that old address....We live in a tourist town where it is almost impossible to rent a place, so we had to move 4 or so times for all sorts of reasons. For the past 10 years we have the same address tho. Same address that we had when we bought the car...
Also, taxes and all that for the car, come to our current address. But not the fine it seems....Weird and infuriating.
So yeah, the system failed to let us known that we need to pay a fine, and since we "delayed" a year with the payment, they decided to directly charge my father's bank account. With over 2.200 Euros. On top of the fines, they fined him for not having an address associated with the car....that was the reason why we did not get any notification about the fine in the first place, and is something that the institution doing the papers when we bought the car was responsible for.
In all, us as human beings, were fined 2.200 Euros, more than we could save in months and months, for the simple fact that the system made an error and could not notify us of a fine we got a year ago.
And that's representative of this society we live in. The fault is always on the individuals. Put the blame on them! And this way the system seems like it is working, because every system's failure, is in fact seen as the individual's failure.
And to do justice for yourself.... how can you do it? Well...hire another human called a "lawyer". And good luck if you are poor because you won't be able to hire anyone. "Justice" comes at a price in this trade system. A human life comes at a cost. Everything has a price, but no value.
Alien: But why did they punish (fine) you in the first place?
Human: Probably because they want to make me drive more carefully....keep the roads safer!?
Alien: So they hope that punishing you will stop you from speeding up?
Human: Probably...although I am sure I will forget about this in the future + when I am stressed and not paying attention....I do not think this can work in the long run....
Alien: Hold on! If they want to make transportation safer why not create a safe public transport system? Allowing everyone to have and drive a car, and buy more and more every year, to pollute, to consume, to drive for hours and hours, to waste....this is insanity squared.
.....
And it is....it is insane. We will never ever change anything in this society if we do not see where the problems come from. To beat and punish people for the "bad" behaviors that they exhibit, when these behaviors come from the environment, is as pointless as trying to stop the clouds from raining. The success is almost nonexistent.
If we want less problems, we need to fix the society. Not to punish anyone. To the contrary, we have to help people. Take the above situation, none of us wanted to do anything bad. And yet we are slapped very hard by the society. What is the outcome of that? If you take 2k Euros form my bank account, especially when it was not my fault for such a sum of money, then you make me poor and prone to steal and cheat. Can't you see that!?
I struggle to push saner thoughts via TROM, but the society is at war with me. And with anyone else that refuses to, or cannot trade. Because trade is the blood of this society keeping it alive and insane.
If you want to support TROM and the tens of projects that we have, and help me keep a voice in this madness, please see tromsite.com/donate/
I need to remind myself quite often that this trade based society is the enemy. Trade is the enemy. Not people. I am at war with this society, not by choice, but by not having one. #tromlive
hosh
in reply to Tio • • •I agree that trade-based society is pretty much a disaster. Below are some personal thoughts on solutions or workarounds.
1. My solution: I am now close to the age of retirement, after working for a peace village - outside of a bit of freelance work once, I have never in my whole life worked for a "company". The work I do for my village is salary-based, but for the past few years I've been reducing the number of hours that I get paid for as we don't need as much income as I used to and prefer that it will be below the taxation threshold (as in, my taxes will not support oppression of Palestinians). When I retire, the amount from pension and social security payments will be higher than I now earn.
2. Communities: I have always thought that the best framework for living is alternative communities - though admittedly it's not for everyone. For those who *can* tolerate community life I think there are today a number of options that provide an escape from the rat-race of capitalistic society. You can do a search on The Foundation for Intentional Communities (
... Show more...I agree that trade-based society is pretty much a disaster. Below are some personal thoughts on solutions or workarounds.
1. My solution: I am now close to the age of retirement, after working for a peace village - outside of a bit of freelance work once, I have never in my whole life worked for a "company". The work I do for my village is salary-based, but for the past few years I've been reducing the number of hours that I get paid for as we don't need as much income as I used to and prefer that it will be below the taxation threshold (as in, my taxes will not support oppression of Palestinians). When I retire, the amount from pension and social security payments will be higher than I now earn.
2. Communities: I have always thought that the best framework for living is alternative communities - though admittedly it's not for everyone. For those who *can* tolerate community life I think there are today a number of options that provide an escape from the rat-race of capitalistic society. You can do a search on The Foundation for Intentional Communities (
3. Outside of community,: I guess one has to take advantage of what the current society offers. I know someone who is able to draw social security payments because he managed to obtain a medical verdict that he is psychologically unfit to work. Up till recently we gave him free accommodation for 5 years in our household. (Recently he managed to obtain a guest residency somewhere to do a writing project.) We are not rich and there are no doubt many other people that can offer something like that too? (Squatting is another solution.)
4. One day there will be universal basic income, inshallah!
Intentional Communities - Find, Join, & Learn about Intentional Community
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Tio
in reply to hosh • •Encouraging to read such a down-to-earth and to-the-point comment. I live in Catalonia (Spain) and I've heard that there are several such communities here. I also know one in the south of spain where they even provide you with a house if you help build other houses (including yours). We do think about such solutions. At least to try out. On one hand I'd be curious to talk to these people and also expose them to TROM, on the other hand I am quite anti-social in many regards. I do not like small talks or be surrounded by many people. I like my own comfort and space. So we will see. But for sure I'll have to try such things.
Thanks again for sharing this with me. I've heard of Auroville.
Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •@hosh
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hosh
in reply to Tio • • •Tio
in reply to hosh • •Wu Wei
in reply to Tio • • •Have you considered fear as a factor?
Many people fear they won't have enough wealth for themselves.
Others fear they won't have enough wealth to help others/close ones when they'll need it.
In such a fearful world, people hesitate to trust that kindness will be returned eventually.
On the other hand trade prospers since it's enforced by police and courts which people fear even more, allowing them to trust they will get at least something in return.
Tio
in reply to Wu Wei • •Ninja :blobninja: likes this.
Rafa Peris
in reply to Tio • •A "visual" proof of why this trade-based society is a disaster:
mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-w…
I wish I could help more, but I find myself in a tricky situation in relation to taxes and fines and I know no other way right now than to keep trading my time, skills, energy and health in exchange for money in order for me and my partner to keep up. Big hug Tio.
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Tio
in reply to Rafa Peris • •#FreeSchool <---> Hashtag
in reply to Tio • • •I SYMPATHISE. Really
But apart from the reasons of fear / scarcity / greed / not knowing how to share etc... for other reasons you have also your own evidence and reasons, for example for unsaid reasons not really talking about things with me. And I don't claim to be God but at least another free person and without any reasons why... Like seriously you chat so much with others but from message #1 something off on your side... so you could be part of it too... this is a constructive look at that and take your time too - I write a lot and it's not rage (this is also your own thing that you're asking to solve maybe through others going through same things with others! It's quite the same perplexing unreasoned thing happening all the time and details like this eventually might win logic instead of xyz people never see or mention)
Adn no need read this if you're not interesting
and too busy... for social change and feedback about what you wrote. Too busy of course classic phrase for I don't want.
If it's only about
... Show more...I SYMPATHISE. Really
But apart from the reasons of fear / scarcity / greed / not knowing how to share etc... for other reasons you have also your own evidence and reasons, for example for unsaid reasons not really talking about things with me. And I don't claim to be God but at least another free person and without any reasons why... Like seriously you chat so much with others but from message #1 something off on your side... so you could be part of it too... this is a constructive look at that and take your time too - I write a lot and it's not rage (this is also your own thing that you're asking to solve maybe through others going through same things with others! It's quite the same perplexing unreasoned thing happening all the time and details like this eventually might win logic instead of xyz people never see or mention)
Adn no need read this if you're not interesting
and too busy... for social change and feedback about what you wrote. Too busy of course classic phrase for I don't want.
If it's only about free-trade tools, then have it and it'll be clear for me personally free can't work without the social side which maybe you're doing but not with me (you got years ahead pick a day!).
Going into more detail from my side and considering your position here's a real scenario for you:
So just imagine there are two Trom-like people but the other one doesn't even want to speak to the other right from the beginning despite the initial praise / asking to help / etc ...
and then talking about their work, doesn't address any of the comments they get... oh yeah they send someone else to do the kinds of PR work (which was great) but not you... and then after not explaining and my advances, one or twice there is a short emo-TLDR type response / and even calling me a mess.
Well sure go ahead and blame others for not communicating but having a 1 way communication in life sucks and without reasoning.
Not good by your own standards I think not even mond.
People don't even understand that it encourages more other feelings. People don't just dies suddenly and go away. You 2nd message was threatening to block after being silent. That's stupid man.
For investing time - it's the people thing AND THEN money maybe on the side.. First to say why you didn't write them,,,, do some work. I mean if it happened to you, you'd be like what's up let's work it out. Well this is also the case with you perhaps money donations or not/
This is the trying to finally understand broken link or psychology between civilisation. Just gotta get through the jungle. It's not only the fiat money and donations it's all the long-winded stuff attached with human thinking- giving them/me/people free space etc is only going to be limited in effect and even abuse of free people from not being appreciated.
Read almost an inventors story (until it was developed for things like war and it's like "hey yeah we'll talk to you now great go ahead and do that thing you do with code or machiens"
it's simply not taking the time to talk... build... and perhaps you have, but not with me (violins but this is also for others to learn from)
so your own fear... or something is not clear here. Never said.
From the Free in my own name you should really feel I'm on the same level or at least check me out before ignoring (or leave things and on 2nd msg say "it's enough or I'll block you" (almost to that same sentence). Can't just do that in life and guess what that dynamic comes back (humanity can't shrug the relationship with others).
So some sincere messages are sent and then increasingly frustrated ones BUT always it's about people not managing to get to audio talk.
So that's the case in questions how it's possible two people can't do it...
How 2 Troms / 2 Freeschool or Free-thinkers, Freedom lovers can't even talk lol sad but breathing out and back to it no for solving?
So I suggest you resolve this probably later to disprove this theory too but for those out there wondering PEOPLE THEMSELF ARE BLIND / IGNORANT / Bourgeois and Too stuck in their work (for the 'cause' even) to actually see "hello" someone is in front of you and was patient in the waiting too.
You got priorities or excuses too maybe both but time is something we have lots of...
Personally this can wait and can be done later but you take your own message of 'surprised' or wondering why it's not working because you surely didn't explain it at all to me and socially people have to feel good to donate (not all your fault).
If there is 1 Trom like person or Freeschooler who asked me, man, I would take it with both hands jump into the Jitsi call like I said for 30mins or just 10mins lol...
If not just message them... The question here is why not... and there you have your light about why people are willing to let you starve without respect for what you do.
So yea after you're done with project maybe, you said you have maybe a month left - I think you might be ready then - maybe not)
Often a crisis or breakup is needed or somehow desperate scenarios before we realise who / what counts.
This is part of it though - you seem to have PLENTY of time for other stuff and wish you well for that.
I really don't see your fear or whatever...
OTHER TOPIC - ABOUT SINCERITY AND 'DUBIOUS' PERSONS
And without me in the mix here I think actually SINCERITY is almost widely mistaken for being a bad person... lol I know it's strange/not logical but exactly that words strange = emotional for the person so not just with you but maybe why people don't donate or communicate or stay away or whatever is about "WHY IS THIS GUY DOING IT ALL FOR FREE?" or learning all this stuff - he must be a XYZ!!!!
And then for names (which can be misleading)... ok Trom maybe doesn't say much but FREESCHOOL - fuck that must be a piss-take or SARCASM - if I try here I might get egg of my face for trying and look stupid so forget trying and for saving the world - I should save my ego or feelinsg or whatever
AND You must be criminal or scammer or hateful person or something else is up with all that FREE you are aiming for... I mean I have my troubles and I don't particularly like the bank but I can't even trust you to talk! Better with those massive anon institutes yeah!
And actually I gotta block you because you might be hacking me!
So lame / far others. There's probably more point but I covered the main gates of thought that trigger running / hiding or lack of courage / fear to find out what this person is about.
SUMMARY
People (and their 'people-skills') are ill man and I think they only want or expect 'certain' types to respond or something - which is so far gone it's almost like ethnic-cleansing type stuff for the digital world). I've contact people from their own site and already their up inside their own doubts someone really is sharing what they put online lol.
No wonder money has taken over - we could even love things together
Sure if you're a big cheese or given cred by institutes you might mean something enough to get "I'm a doctor" credibility but even that doesn't mean you're still an ass. Anything in the world of insecure / pessimist people works for them.
GET SOME TEA - MY OWN STORY ABOUT MONEY
It's also hard to give money away or handle it.... The inherit % loss all the time means it's scarce or like gold dust (literally because it is being eroded and that's partially the habit of needing more and to squirrel it away) so you might know that but we all are just learning (like 5mins ago) and reminding ourselves it doesn't work either way... so we HAVE NO CHOICE but to spend / use with LIKE-MINDED people what value it has left and die out that way. Else MORE OFTEN fall into the same traps (being cornered and alone too increasingly) of those corralling the small fish (the big fish). Your tools will help dude but socially it can fail totally on that front.
So I put my hand up for when I could have even given to a friend when needed but just because he spend it at the pub (wasn't much money) I didn't give it and that was last I saw of him... And I wasn't poor by far...
I also think people don't like the medium anyway (at all sometimes) and this is the bottom line as a "only if I have to spend" is the thing and there is a bit of a cruel justice happening like you explained in your situation that people don't give UNLESS THEY HAVE TO... then it's probably similar to people thinking "I don't need to talk to him, her, him xhe xyz"... but they dont' see that's it the justice exactly like giving of money or not because from all of us not doing it festers and even helps the bad.
To clarify about the money and keep context: By not spending on you they lose more perhaps... but also things are equalising these initially-false bubbles of money so as people spend minimally is kinda-works until all of us become so poor or cornered by credit% (and big fish) that maybe we to *need* to talk to each other again and cooperate ... NO CHOICE! Only when we are starving from communication, depression, breakups, whatever - only then 'the penny drops' in their head that it's important to keep giving and in your case not just free-tools but social other changes direct/indirect (you might be already I haven't been checking on you so you judge yourself)
FORCE AS USUAL IS NEEDED OTHERWISE "WHY BOTHER"
SO as usual force of some kind is needed (tax, war or famine or bank recession etc)... I'm not going to force you but your point is good people for many reasons won't give, don't know how this works in humanity, and then in some way free also wants to be free too but in a world like this needs more diversity and input into free (like living in a house instead of individuals all paying rent)
But sadly people don't see the relationship side like "ONE FAMILY" it's is not their aim, luxuries and levels increased or standards means people are not able to grasps the feeling of "oh yeah that's what's going to win things better and be a bit more fun" and "I could be homeless too when they come for me or decide to screw the next levels up"
SUMMARY (I KNOW IT WAS LONG / I TRIED)
For many reasons justified in lack of giving, we could also train those that have ample and make something easier or better practised even indirectly working with it. To even train people to give is good overall because business is mostly a cut-throat numerical thing (de-humanising) and therefore gets worse through those de-humanising filters or work. Better umbrellas of people... with houses and space and money and some fucking fun even danger.
So anyway when you feel for it later///
LET'S GET FIXING SOCIETY AND PEOPLE.
NO OTHER WAY AROUND IT.
FREE HAS IT'S LIMITS or is just one half.
TALKING / GROWING PEOPLE is the other half and covers top of te habit and action tree so HAS MUCH LE$$ LIMITS.
GOTTA PLAY WITH WHAT CARDS WE HAVE BETWEEN US.. YAWN FASTLY WRITTEN NO OFFENCE ETC....