46 minutes of the second part of TROM II are kinda done. Still have to improve some parts here and there... Now I have to figure out how to continue these minutes. I have a bunch of leftover videos that I have to make sense of. Will try to do so these days....but so far TROM II is around 2h long. All of it. #tromlive
We now have our own instance of Yacy. Yacy is a proper peer to peer search engine. You see, there are only a few search engines out there, maybe less than 10, and google dominates them all. Only google, microsoft, and a few others, can crawl the internet and provide relevant search results. They are giants and have big and fluffy servers.
We already provide a trade-free search engine at https://search.trom.tf - what this does is to use google and the like, to search whatever you want, and remove the trackers and ads, so you can see the results in a trade-free manner. But of course we rely 100% on other search engines. Not anymore!
With Yacy our server does its own indexing. It searchers on websites by itself. Thus decoupling it from any other search engine. It communicates with other Yacy servers/peers so together we can build a huge and decentralized search engine. But Yacy on its own is still limited. There are trillions and trillions of webpages out there. Ours will be able to index millions. This is why we have integrated it with https://search.trom.tf. And so, now when you search on https://search.trom.tf you'll also get results from our own search engine, Yacy.
The great part about is is that we are prioritizing the indexing of relevant websites, from tromsite.com to videoneat.com or directory.trade-free.org, or sources from tromnews.com. So that the first results will be a LOT more relevant.
Searching for TROM on our search engine:
vs google:
Here are more examples."the blue planet documentary" can be found in the first results on our search engine - like you can watch it from videoneat.com or docuwiki.org.
Of course not at all on google:
And so on. We are adding more relevant sources right now.
search.trom.tf/ is a very powerful search engine. We use it daily. Take advantage of that!
And please support us financially if you can tromsite.com/donate/ - so that we keep these projects alive and relevant. #tromlive
Here's a video with allegedly Ukrainian thieves. teddit.net/r/UkraineWarVideoRe… Humans stealing from stores. They are strapped to some poles and have their pants down by the Ukrainian soldiers and other Ukrainian humans. The stupidity and cruelty of humanity has no borders. First you force all males to stay in the tribe and fight, being bombed and scared and hungry, then some may steal, and you think the best is to humiliate them. Nice!
Also notice how penises are censored but not blown up humans in the same war.
Humans...such an idiotic animal can be. It all depends on the environment. We can have Einsteins and Gandhis, or soldiers and dictators.
There are literally videos of people being killed and stuff, real bloody imagery. But for some reason censoring those penises where more important, LMAO 😂
40 minutes done for TROM II, second part. The next days are all about putting the story together towards the end of this part maybe, or I may continue with this part and not divide it into a 3rd yet...let's see....so far so good. #tromlive
Tomorrow we will have a live. TROMcast is back. We will discuss "war" as the topic, with the focus on the current events. We will stream at https://www.tromsite.com/live/ where we will also have a live chat.
38 minutes kinda done for TROM II, the second part. Very fast! I still need to beautify it and all that, but the bulk of that is done. I might even be done with this second part by the end of this month. That'd be some hour and a half or less. Look at the monster hahaa
Streamed live on 16th March 2022. More information from NASA here: https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-s-webb-reaches-alignment-milestone-optics-working-successfully/
Check out my other JWST videos here: https://www.youtube.
We are going to have a live TROMcast about the war with a focus on the recent invasion of Ukraine by Russia. If you have been affected by this war and you'd like to participate, please see this link https://link.trom.tf/8oAGSZvf
28 minutes done my friends! That's from the second part of TROM II. First part is a little over 1h. Made big progress today. What's in the red square is what I'll do next. It is sorted but need to edit ot - footage, music, proper cuts, etc.
It should be pretty fast to do that part. Let's see....but yeah I like it so far. Very pleased. Work continues. That's all I do. #tromlive
I am making hourly backups for the TROM II project. To my external HDD + the cloud. Just in case. Now that I am furiously working on it I wanna make sure all is ok. I am fairly confident that in about 1 month I can finish another hour or more of the documentary. Let's see...
I now know what and how to edit for the next 20-30 minutes so that's reassuring and will be much faster to go through it all. Lots of videos to edit tho but so far I am in the mood and am working every day. #tromlive
See this photo? That red square is made up of many parts. Some 1h in total. Of 5 life stories that I have to somehow combine into a coherent way, that is no longer than say 20 minutes. Difficult :D .
I work like a madman on TROM II. I don't know what day it is (well I usually dont know haha), and I wake up and work on it, that's all. And I am fine. I project that the second part will be around 1h too. Maybe a bit more. Then maybe one more part, anotehr 1h?! idk let's see.... #tromlive
At the moment, we are experiencing a network interruption in our Duesseldorf data center. Some network segments are offline. Your server might be unreachable. All of our staff are working on this issue. We ask for your understanding that we want to give the highest priority to solving this problem as quickly as possible and that, therefore, we are not reachable as we normally are and that we cannot respond to your messages as quickly as we normally do. All services that are affected will be checked by us. If your service is unreachable, you do not need to send us a message, we will check it on our own. We are doing everything in our power to bring your services back online as quickly as possible!
Let us never forget that the Ukrainian tribe forces its male members to not leave their tribe. To stay and fight. This is an act of terror, of extreme barbarism. If I, as a male that am part of a tribe (without my consent, I was just born there), am forced to stay and fight (perhaps die) for this tribe, then fuck this tribe.
Say if 80% of all Ukrainian males wanted to not put up a fight and leave, then respect that. It means that Ukraine doesn't want to fight. Deal with it. They talk about democracy, freedom, and other bullshit like that, but this is so far from these ideals that we can't see them even with a telescope.
It is the same way that the Russian males were forced (probably) to be part of the army and go fight the Ukrainian males. All of these are clear signs of primitivism.
We should now focus on killing cancer, and dropping space probes on the Europa moon to search for other forms of life. And yet we kill humans and drop bombs on cities, to destroy us and the infrastructure.
A pathetic species.
We need to make humans realize these primitivisms.... #tromlive
the fact is Russians don't want to fight either. many of those kids that were thrown to the war were just forcedly conscribed and made to sign "a contract". nobody wants this war. neither here, nor there. we know those who does, by names. so why should people get into this hell for no reasons and get all these killer sanctions, when all the world know the criminals that are in charge for this happening. this is a queation. a question about money. cui bono, as Romans said. look who's interesred. and I see people ready to supply weapons (not as a free help, for money, of course!). and I see those who make money on blood and tears. and we all know who are that people. so why this all happens and how can we stop the madness?
@Iron Bug clearly, as you are saying: there are people profiting out of that, because of trade - they sell weapons and gain money. How can we stop the madness? That's tricky and I have no answer to that except to make people aware that trade is the problem and that we need to make it obsolete. Many projects are working in this direction and we try to highlight them in the trade-free directory: directory.trade-free.org/
actually, nothing is "trade-free". developers of open source don't eat solar power. they earn money and use their spare time for something they like. this is how opensource exists. but somebody pays for all these servers on Fediverse. and these money are earned by people. and this is commercial basis of everything in the world.
Trade-free is trade-free for the end user. For me it is trade free if I do not have to trade for that good or service. Like Wikipedia is for example. I do not have to give them anything in return for that service. Yes, wikipedia uses some servers and trades for them (money), but their service for others is trade free. Understand?
it's pity you don't understand. wikipedia collected donates. they cannot live on solar power. you can find a little wild apple in a forest. but if you wanna get a good big apple you have to work, to fertilize the soil and so on. for free is only wild nature. everything made by people costs resources - i.e. money. time is also money. people may spend it for work or for hobbies. but hobbies don't provide food for anybody.
You do not have to trade anything to use wikipedia. Am I correct? Do you give them anything? No. That means, for you, Wikipedia is trade-free. Yes Wikipedia trades for some of their services, but am not talking about that.
I write many books, see tromsite.com/books/. I give them for free. I call that being trade-free because I do not collect your data, insert ads, whatever. You do not have to give me anything in return for these books. There is no trade between you and me. Thus, my books are trade-free for you. Where am I not clear?
I'm just sure that you work and use money for life. because nobody lives for free. well, unless they live on their Mom's or Grandma's money. I mean this activities are just hobbies, not real life. and real life is a trade between people and trade is not bad, it's normal. I'm a programmer, I don't keep cattle and don't grow vegetables, but I earn money and buy milk and greens from farmers. and farmers don't make software for computers but can buy it from companies that develop it. trade is a natural consequence of division of labor. world became more complicated than when in the ancient times people could provide food for themselves and everything was hand-made. I can buy whatever goods, in exchange I provide my professional skills for companies that provice different services and software and hardware for many people. and you cannot spreas your books without printing them on paper, paper should be made on a factory. or you can type them on your computer and load to the Internet, but there're people that made your computer, wrote software for it and people that keep the Internet runni... show more
I'm just sure that you work and use money for life. because nobody lives for free. well, unless they live on their Mom's or Grandma's money. I mean this activities are just hobbies, not real life. and real life is a trade between people and trade is not bad, it's normal. I'm a programmer, I don't keep cattle and don't grow vegetables, but I earn money and buy milk and greens from farmers. and farmers don't make software for computers but can buy it from companies that develop it. trade is a natural consequence of division of labor. world became more complicated than when in the ancient times people could provide food for themselves and everything was hand-made. I can buy whatever goods, in exchange I provide my professional skills for companies that provice different services and software and hardware for many people. and you cannot spreas your books without printing them on paper, paper should be made on a factory. or you can type them on your computer and load to the Internet, but there're people that made your computer, wrote software for it and people that keep the Internet running. this all is trade. everywhere around us.
Trade was good, maybe until some 300 years ago. Now we have so much stuff that we throw mountains of waste. Trade made us produce so much stuff, and thus we waste so much stuff. Why should we still trade for this abundance?
Trade also makes us behave badly because it forces us to lie, deceive, exaggerate, corrupt or be corrupted. If I sell potatoes I can't afford to tell my customers to go to the other company because they have better and cheaper potatoes. I need to pay my rent you know...so you can't be honest in this system. As a matter of fact I gathered mountains of evidence about how trade is the origin of most problems. See this core book tromsite.com/books/#flipbook-d… and I am fully open to criticism.
Been working on these for at least a decade and I never traded my work for anything. Never. I am supported solely via donations.
EDIT: I didn't mean to say "Trade was good, maybe until some 300 years ago". I mean tot say trade was useful. It still created a fuck ton of mess, slaves, corruption, and so forth.
Also by no mean trade-free means we should go back to the ancient times. Not at all. Like we showcase here directory.trade-free.org/ there are many many many specialists out there doing trade free goods/services. From software to healthcare. The more of them, the more the rings in a chain will connect and a longer chain of trade-free will be created.
Example: I get trade-free healthcare here in Spain. I do nothing in order to get it. I also get trade-free accommodation and internet (a place to stay). This is because others provide these for me. This allows me to have a lot more time and create the tons of projects (30-40) we have. See tromsite.com/ and tromsite.com/tools . Others can use these and not have to trade for netflix, google products, and so forth. Thus, more time for them to create other trade-free goods/s
... show more
Also by no mean trade-free means we should go back to the ancient times. Not at all. Like we showcase here directory.trade-free.org/ there are many many many specialists out there doing trade free goods/services. From software to healthcare. The more of them, the more the rings in a chain will connect and a longer chain of trade-free will be created.
Example: I get trade-free healthcare here in Spain. I do nothing in order to get it. I also get trade-free accommodation and internet (a place to stay). This is because others provide these for me. This allows me to have a lot more time and create the tons of projects (30-40) we have. See tromsite.com/ and tromsite.com/tools . Others can use these and not have to trade for netflix, google products, and so forth. Thus, more time for them to create other trade-free goods/services. The more we engage in this dance, the more we detach from trade.
At the end of the day we are talking about motivation. A skilled surgeon or software engineer are not eating the money to get their energy and motivation to do skilled things, it is about them wanting to do these. And many already do. We have to make the rest not do their skilled work just because they want another smartphone that's injected into their heads via ads, but because they enjoy their work.
Sorry but this is such a populist post I dont know how you don’t see it really. Your healthcare is paid from taxes paid by everyone in Spain. If you dont pay taxes it only means you are leaching of those that do. If noone would pay taxes there would be no public healthcare because you wouldn’t be able to fund it. Your way of seeing things and presenting things is so shallow and simplified I just cannot pass next to it without commenting on it. With all though respect but you’re wrong if you think public health care is trade-free.
I think you are interpreting this in a very weird way. I am talking about how this service is for you, the one using it. How can this be so confusing to you is beyond me. It is like saying Disroot doesn't use FOSS software because that software was made on computers that run Windows, and the Disroot server is on a computer with non-open-source hardware. And then accusing you of leeching on proprietary software and hardware to make your FOSS software. This is of course an extreme viewpoint that leads to nowhere. With your thinking there will never be anything that's FOSS, or free for that matter.
How can we then call these two? 1. In USA if you get sick, you have to pay money for it to go to the hospital. 2. In Spain, if you get sick, you don't pay anything (not even taxes), just go to the hospital.
These are very different services for you, the human. With real life implications. The systems are different for you. In USA you could die or get in a very bad health. In Spain you won't.
In your world I should call both of these services as "paid"? If so, the di
... show more
I think you are interpreting this in a very weird way. I am talking about how this service is for you, the one using it. How can this be so confusing to you is beyond me. It is like saying Disroot doesn't use FOSS software because that software was made on computers that run Windows, and the Disroot server is on a computer with non-open-source hardware. And then accusing you of leeching on proprietary software and hardware to make your FOSS software. This is of course an extreme viewpoint that leads to nowhere. With your thinking there will never be anything that's FOSS, or free for that matter.
How can we then call these two? 1. In USA if you get sick, you have to pay money for it to go to the hospital. 2. In Spain, if you get sick, you don't pay anything (not even taxes), just go to the hospital.
These are very different services for you, the human. With real life implications. The systems are different for you. In USA you could die or get in a very bad health. In Spain you won't.
In your world I should call both of these services as "paid"? If so, the difference between them is simply dismissed.
I dont think youunderstand me either. Disroot is using floss software desite whether it was made on windows or linux or mac. it used floss components to build it. plus its secondary. even without windows it would be possible to write all software.
healthcare example is different. both US and Spains healthcare is not free. the difference is how its funded. in US its totally privatised while in Spain it's funded from taxes collectively. both arent free because both cost money. the second one is more social oriented as it spreads the weight of the cost on everyone through taxation of population. if everyone or majority stops paying taxes the healthcare system in spain would collapse. so at th end you do pay for it. not directly in form of the bill like in US but taxes. but its not trade free!
Using your logic, if whatever disroot is using was made with proprietary operating systems, and closed source hardware, then you cannot claim that disrtoot uses floss. There is nothing "free" about that floss with your logic, since someone paid for that software somehow. Plus, there is nothing "open" since closed source software and computers have been used to create it. See? There is no way around this using your logic.
even without windows it would be possible to write all software.
And why is that? Because, in time, more and more components of an OS + Software became Open Source, allowing you today to have an ecosystem of Open Source software, including a kernel and an OS. Thus, allowing you to build FLOSS inside of such an environment.
And we can try and do the same for other goods and services. In order to create trade-free you need to use "trade-based". Same way in order to create open-source, you need to use "closed-source". At least in the beginning.
With the healthcare example you are again missing my point entirely. I am aski
... show more
Using your logic, if whatever disroot is using was made with proprietary operating systems, and closed source hardware, then you cannot claim that disrtoot uses floss. There is nothing "free" about that floss with your logic, since someone paid for that software somehow. Plus, there is nothing "open" since closed source software and computers have been used to create it. See? There is no way around this using your logic.
even without windows it would be possible to write all software.
And why is that? Because, in time, more and more components of an OS + Software became Open Source, allowing you today to have an ecosystem of Open Source software, including a kernel and an OS. Thus, allowing you to build FLOSS inside of such an environment.
And we can try and do the same for other goods and services. In order to create trade-free you need to use "trade-based". Same way in order to create open-source, you need to use "closed-source". At least in the beginning.
With the healthcare example you are again missing my point entirely. I am asking how are these systems FOR ME. ;) . I understand how they work, you don't have to repeat that. But for me the Spain one is a lot more advantageous since it is "free". Or trade-free. Forget about who what pays for and where.
if everyone or majority stops paying taxes the healthcare system in spain would collapse
If companies won't make laptops and servers, if they won't hire people, if they won't invest in open source, then most FLOSS will collapse. So? That's derailing from the conversation quite a lot. FLOSS is still important and we can call it as such and make sense of it. Same with trade-free. And the more we push it, hopefully, the less reliant we will be on trade or proprietary software and hardware.
So, you cannot argue with me that the spanish healthcare system is not trade-free for me. Because for me it is. Same is Wikipedia and Linux and so forth. I do not trade for me, thus for me they are trade-free. How can you argue against that? :)
If noone would pay taxes there would be no public healthcare because you wouldn’t be able to fund it.
Totally besides the point. If big companies won't invest in open source, if there won't be proprietary hardware and software, then FOSS won't exist. So? It is still FOSS for me. We should still celebrate, embrace, and push forward the FOSS approach. Maybe the more FOS hardware and software we have, the less reliance on proprietary ones.
Same with healthcare or anything. The more volunteers, automation, and resources we have, the less the reliance on trade.
What do you mean that FOSS would not exist without big companies pomping money into it. FLOSS existed without huge funding from big tech and IMO it was doing pretty well and was ruined to some degree by big tech leaching on it. In fact FLOSS was there before propertary licencing was a thing so Dont know what is your comparison here. Your connection between two things (floss, free-trade) I think assumes that FLOSS is trade-free which it isn’t at all. Most of the things you use daily, exists because there is enough funding to the project funneled. Whether it’s the for-profit operations of the company (nextcloud), or VC funding (matrix), none of those would exist in the shape and form we see today if it werent for funding. The fact you dont pay for it directly does not mean no tradeis involved. It’s another IMO flawed way of looking at things (“I dont pay for it therefore trade free”) without looking at bigger picture.
Hardware is much more complex showing also that trade-free is just populist idea. Unlike software or creative products like art, bo
... show more
What do you mean that FOSS would not exist without big companies pomping money into it. FLOSS existed without huge funding from big tech and IMO it was doing pretty well and was ruined to some degree by big tech leaching on it. In fact FLOSS was there before propertary licencing was a thing so Dont know what is your comparison here. Your connection between two things (floss, free-trade) I think assumes that FLOSS is trade-free which it isn’t at all. Most of the things you use daily, exists because there is enough funding to the project funneled. Whether it’s the for-profit operations of the company (nextcloud), or VC funding (matrix), none of those would exist in the shape and form we see today if it werent for funding. The fact you dont pay for it directly does not mean no tradeis involved. It’s another IMO flawed way of looking at things (“I dont pay for it therefore trade free”) without looking at bigger picture.
Hardware is much more complex showing also that trade-free is just populist idea. Unlike software or creative products like art, books and so, hardware as the name suggests, needs real tenable goods to make it, specially on large scale. This is where very complex chain of supplies come in play. Try to tell the guy in the mine “ask nothing in return” as if he enjoys mining minerals for your computer every day. Not to mention even more shitty jobs required for your computer to arrive at your desk.
And yes, volunteer work, charities are amazing, needed and I would wish everyone on earth would participate in some form of it, to make the world a better place for everyone. But that work is made possible exactly because people can afford to spend their free time on it. Or to donate surplus of their wealth to those that dont have it or are in need.
As for your example with healthcare. I think you dont understand the point I am trying to bring across (again). Healthcare is a bad example because neither Spain’s nor US system is free. The difference is how both systems are funded. In US it’s totally privatized while in Spain it’s funded collectively through taxes. But both are not free as they cost money. Money you pay either directly (US) or through taxes (Spain). Tax aproach spreads the weight of the costs on entire population. It’s more just and social as there is a window for those who cant afford it to have it as well. But if critical mass of those not paying for it (in taxes) would be reached the system would collapse. So you can’t call it free-trade! A doctor would not do it if he wouldn’t get paid for it (even the charity one). It as not free as facebook isn’t free. There you also dont pay to use it directly right?
Disroot is using FLOSS software despite whether it was physically typed on mac, windows or linux. You need to use open source components to make it work (compilers, languages etc), so even without windows it would be possible to make it.
The fact you dont pay for it directly does not mean no tradeis involved.
There are no trades between me and the service/good. How is that not getting to you is beyond me. Are you telling me that when I use Wikipedia or go to the hospital here, I have to trade for it? I? How? Tell me.
Try to tell the guy in the mine “ask nothing in return” as if he enjoys mining minerals for your computer every day.
Another derailing. I am saying we should TRY and provide trade-free goods and services. If this poor guy in the mine would have access trade-free to healthcare, and his basic needs, he won't do that job in the first place. Thus, we aim at eliminating slavery. Does this mean no more computers because now we can't have slaves? I doubt. computers/hardware will be made but without abusing humans as much.
But that work is made possible exactly because people can afford to spend their free time on it.
Exactly, so the more trade-free goods/services you have access to, the more free time
... show more
The fact you dont pay for it directly does not mean no tradeis involved.
There are no trades between me and the service/good. How is that not getting to you is beyond me. Are you telling me that when I use Wikipedia or go to the hospital here, I have to trade for it? I? How? Tell me.
Try to tell the guy in the mine “ask nothing in return” as if he enjoys mining minerals for your computer every day.
Another derailing. I am saying we should TRY and provide trade-free goods and services. If this poor guy in the mine would have access trade-free to healthcare, and his basic needs, he won't do that job in the first place. Thus, we aim at eliminating slavery. Does this mean no more computers because now we can't have slaves? I doubt. computers/hardware will be made but without abusing humans as much.
But that work is made possible exactly because people can afford to spend their free time on it.
Exactly, so the more trade-free goods/services you have access to, the more free time to create more yourself. That's how I manage to do a lot of projects and make them all trade-free.
So you can’t call it free-trade!
I can. The healthcare system in Spain is trade-free FOR ME. :) There is no way around it because it simply is. I trade nothing to them, and yet I have access to it.
A doctor would not do it if he wouldn’t get paid for it
This is a different subject from the above one. And it is an interesting discussion. There are tons of doctors (see doctors without borders for examples) that work without wanting anything in return. We should try and create a society where humans work because they enjoy doing it, not because they want a new car. Doing surgery because you want to buy a new BMW is a bad incentive that scaled on a global scale creates a lot of destruction.
Disroot is using FLOSS software despite whether it was physically typed on mac, windows or linux. You need to use open source components to make it work (compilers, languages etc), so even without windows it would be possible to make it.
Like Doctors Without Borders showcase, it is totally possible to have a healthcare system where you do not tax anyone, trade-free. Same as your example above "would be possible to make it". ;)
but thats the thing. inb your eyes you dont trade directly so its trade free. no it isnt. government of the cuntry you live in is trading for you. soyeah you outsource the trade to third party. does not mean its not happening.
So you agree that for me is trade-free. Finally :).
Now what happens behind the scenes is another story. I am talking about the nature of these services for the ones using them, of course. Else we go nowhere. Else nothing in the world can be labeled as "free" or "open source" or whatever else, if you look at how these goods/services are created.
You go for an extreme view that is very unrealistic.
In the same way that FOSS emerged from a closed source software world, and it is still emerging and improving, we need to let trade-free goods/service emerge from the trade-based world. Little by little.
well in that case you agree that facebook is trade free since "I" dont pay for it.
also speaking of derailing, I dont get why u bring floss to all of it. floss is software licencing that gives certain rights to the owner of the software. nothing more. it does not mention at all how it as made and using what tools and has nothing to do with trade either. you on the other hand propose new economic solution. so if your idea is based on 'i dont pay therefore trade free' then sure thats one way of looking at things. shallow and simplistc but if it rocks your boat.....
well in that case you agree that facebook is trade free since "I" dont pay for it.
No. I trade my attention and data to facebook. I have no choice. But I do not trade my data, attention, or currency to the Spanish healthcare system.
it does not mention at all how it as made and using what tools and has nothing to do with trade either
Trade-Free does not mention about how a product is created or what product it is. It means you, the one using this good/service, do not have to trade for it. I use that example to showcase that Open Source Software has been reliant and still is on proprietary software and hardware, and yet we agree to give it a name "open source" and understand its value. Same way that trade-free goods/services have been reliant and still are on trade, but we have to agree to give it a name and see its value.
o if your idea is based on 'i dont pay therefore trade free' then sure thats one way of looking at things. shallow and simplistc but if it rocks your boat.....
No, my
... show more
well in that case you agree that facebook is trade free since "I" dont pay for it.
No. I trade my attention and data to facebook. I have no choice. But I do not trade my data, attention, or currency to the Spanish healthcare system.
it does not mention at all how it as made and using what tools and has nothing to do with trade either
Trade-Free does not mention about how a product is created or what product it is. It means you, the one using this good/service, do not have to trade for it. I use that example to showcase that Open Source Software has been reliant and still is on proprietary software and hardware, and yet we agree to give it a name "open source" and understand its value. Same way that trade-free goods/services have been reliant and still are on trade, but we have to agree to give it a name and see its value.
o if your idea is based on 'i dont pay therefore trade free' then sure thats one way of looking at things. shallow and simplistc but if it rocks your boat.....
No, my argument (not idea) is that if I do not trade for something (my currency, my data, attention and so forth) then that good/service is TRADE-FREE for me. As simple as that. And it is not at all shallow I have written thousands of pages about it and showcased examples of, and why this idea is so important. tromsite.com/books/#flipbook-d…
Made many videos and documentaries and all that. We use thousands of examples and walk that talk by creating, ourselves, trade-free services.
If a piece of software has its code open for all to see, we call it open source. Let's keep it simple as that, I know there are some licenses out there. Now, if this piece of open source software is made on a computer with closed source hardware, and a closed source operating system, does this mean that the end result, that piece of software, is not open source despite the fact that it publishes its code for all to see?
That's what we mean by trade-free, the end result, the thing you interact with, not the entire process of creating that thing. I hope it clarifies things more.
and note that people that write articles in Wikipedia paid for their education, without education there's no knowledge and no Wikipedia. so information also costs money, as a fact. just you don't see it.
Not necessarily. Maybe in USA but in many parts of the world education is free. But that's besides the point. We are talking if something is like this or like that for you, the end user of course. Take a sugar-free chocolate. For me, the one eating the chocolate, it has no sugar. It is sugar free. But am sure in the process of making it they may have used sugar, or the people making it may eat sugary foods, and so forth. But would be ridiculous, just because of that, to call the end product not sugar-free.
if you don't pay for something this does not mean a) nobody pays for this b) nobody sells your data for profit c) nobody uses the resource for influence, propaganda or ads of some things. everything is paid for. just some things are not evidently seen at first glance.
you cannot run anything in IT without processors, servers, networks, etc. this all is money. a lot of money. and thousands of people maintaining all the structure. and they want to eat. so nithing is free. well, except of sunlight and the weather :) but software definitely takes a lot of efforts and this only may seen "free". it is really just other people's money.
If I give you an apple for free. Like, here take it. Would you say it was not free for you just because I had to eat to have energy to give you the apple, and I paid for the food? We are talking about "free for you" or "trade free for you". So yes those services you see in the directory are trade-free for you.
Let me give you a different example that's a bit easier to understand:
There is a recycling machine that can recycle plastic, but this machine itself is not made out of recycled materials. So does that mean the plastic is not really "recycled" just because we depend on non-recycled materials to make them ? If we just look at the end result, then we can call it "recycled plastic". The same way, we look at the end result as "trade-free" when the good/service ask nothing in return from the receiver. The entire process of producing something may not be trade-free, but the end result surely is.
The dependency on trade will reduce as more and more things become trade-free, if at least the most basic necessities like food, shelter, etc is available as trade-free, then it'll make a huge difference because more people could volunteer without having to do a side-job for survival. But none of this is gonna happen until we see trade as a problem and try to get rid of it. Change will happen very slowly, just look at the free software movement, we're nowhere near replacing all pr
... show more
Let me give you a different example that's a bit easier to understand:
There is a recycling machine that can recycle plastic, but this machine itself is not made out of recycled materials. So does that mean the plastic is not really "recycled" just because we depend on non-recycled materials to make them ? If we just look at the end result, then we can call it "recycled plastic". The same way, we look at the end result as "trade-free" when the good/service ask nothing in return from the receiver. The entire process of producing something may not be trade-free, but the end result surely is.
The dependency on trade will reduce as more and more things become trade-free, if at least the most basic necessities like food, shelter, etc is available as trade-free, then it'll make a huge difference because more people could volunteer without having to do a side-job for survival. But none of this is gonna happen until we see trade as a problem and try to get rid of it. Change will happen very slowly, just look at the free software movement, we're nowhere near replacing all proprietary software with FOSS ones, but it certainly had a big impact when people started seeing "proprietary software" as a problem and tried to get rid of it, the change maybe slow but the free software movement is definitely growing as more and more FOSS programs pop up everyday. In a way, the trade-free movement is trying to achieve the same thing that free software movement did, but with trade instead of proprietary software.
the example is logically wrong. human labor is not material, it cannot be recycled. it's used over and over. partially, we can use automation for changing human labor but then we need the work of mecahnics designers, programmers and those who makes robots themselves. so this is the point. I'm mathematician. don't try to fool me with fake logic. it does not work.
we need the work of mecahnics designers, programmers and those who makes robots themselves
And they can do the work because they want to do the work. Win win. No need to pay them, and they will probably have a better life because they are not forced to trade (work for something else).
and we pay for human labor, first of all. even to mine some resources a lot of work is needed. and this work is paid. paid on every stage from the basic resources excavation to processing. manufacture, logistics, distribution for end users and possible support.
Yes humans are mostly forced in such trades. Which is such a shame and unacceptable, If these people had access as trade-free to their basic needs there are serious chances for them to refuse such jobs. We need to detach humans from forced trade. We need to provide a life for humans, like a basic life at least where their basic needs are met trade-free. Else our society will always rely on slaves and forced labor.
nope. nobody is "forced"! this is normal economical model for differentiation of labor. money is just equivalent of human work. one can sell his time and experience and get money, and then exchange it for production made by other people. this is normal. nothing is wrong about it.
This to me is almost as you saying the Earth is flat.
I don't even know where to begin with. So let me give you my life as an example. I have created a lot of books, videos, and tools for the past 15 or so years. I do not want to trade them for anything. Because I want everyone to access them. That hurts me no end. I can't find a place for me in this society because I cannot afford a life. Tell me why is this happening to me when all I want is to help others and create good stuff for everyone!?
Now, deeper, think about how no one in this world can survive unless they trade. That sentence alone should raise a huge and loud alarm bell. In a world where we throw some 50% of all edible food, where there are more homes than homeless people, more boats and cars and gadgets than anyone can use. We we throw mountains of garbage, while at the same time 100+ million people are homeless, some 9 million die of starvation yearly, some 1 billion dont have access to electricity and clean water....
How can we force humans to still trade even for their basic needs, in a society o
... show more
This to me is almost as you saying the Earth is flat.
I don't even know where to begin with. So let me give you my life as an example. I have created a lot of books, videos, and tools for the past 15 or so years. I do not want to trade them for anything. Because I want everyone to access them. That hurts me no end. I can't find a place for me in this society because I cannot afford a life. Tell me why is this happening to me when all I want is to help others and create good stuff for everyone!?
Now, deeper, think about how no one in this world can survive unless they trade. That sentence alone should raise a huge and loud alarm bell. In a world where we throw some 50% of all edible food, where there are more homes than homeless people, more boats and cars and gadgets than anyone can use. We we throw mountains of garbage, while at the same time 100+ million people are homeless, some 9 million die of starvation yearly, some 1 billion dont have access to electricity and clean water....
How can we force humans to still trade even for their basic needs, in a society of abundance? Explain that to me please.
How can you say no one is forced to trade when no one has any other choice in order to survive and thrive in this society. This is perhaps the most infuriating claim I've seen.
My friend, how can you say that nobody is forced to trade in our world? Are you like Russia saying that nobody in Ukraine has died? Or that they are not at war, this is a special intervention in Ukraine to free the people there?
Are you serious that people are not forced to trade? What are my options then? Enlighten me. Say I do not trade because I refuse to. Then what happens to me? Become one with Earth?
and I don't need you theories. just explain me, now I can exchange some code in C for food on a market. that's it, in my model it's pretty fine and works well for all the years I work. in you model it seems something weird.
Why aren't you just coding and enjoy doing that? Can you just code and also have access to food? If not then you are trapped and you have to code in exchange for food, else you are fucked. If you don't see this as problematic then you have to think a bit deeper and more carefully.
I do. I like my job. but I want to EAT! man, I don't exist virtually here. I have a physical body and I need many things to live: goods, home bills, clothes, technics. this server, at last - you write these messages and they're stored on my server. I PAY for it. so this is not "free messages" or "free Fediverse". everything is paid for by someone.
if you're silly and imagine that Fediverse is free like free beer - it's not! we, programmers, work, earn money and can afford to spend some spare time like weekends for free software. but free software does not make a dinner, does not provides computers for programming or servers for you to be able to write these messages. this is all paid by admins of servers, by developers and by people that donmate MONEY to opensource. I emphasize the word money. nobody wants donating books or something. this won't help in servers support in any way.
No idea what you are trying to argue here. I have my own instance, this one am using, and some 500 users use it. I have many instances see trom.tf/ - I know very well. But what's your point?
We provide them as trade-free for anyone. We ask nothing in return for these services. You get my point?
there's no flat Earth, medieval times and barter between manufacturers. flat Earth was the idea of uneducated people that grew food in a garden and didn't had any computers. now we have more complicated economical system, millions of different goods and services available and money as equivalent of our work to exchange it for any necessary goods. this is fine. nobody has troubles with this.
Damn finally I am relaxed now. 100 million homeless people while having more homes than that. 50% of edible food wasted while 9 million die of starvation yearly. climate change, corruption on all levels; throwing 300 cruise-ships of electronics every year and 500 of textiles; the forever chemicals, plastic contaminating everywhere, inequality rising, biodiversity loss.
But hey, "this is fine. nobody has troubles with this."
so how this all is connected with diversion of labor and money as measure for human work? abosultely no relations. and if you wanna tell me that socialistic lies - thanks, no need. I firmly stand for capitalism. we had that communistic/socialistic crap in this country for decades. I won't let it back. no way! this shit must die, forever. I'm happy I can work for normal capitalist companies and to provide good network for the whole world, for all people that need it. all one needs in capitalist world is not being a lazy arse that does nothing and wants to get everything for free. nothing is free. it's an illusion. we don't have slaves, we have to work to earn anything for ourselves. some people don't want to work and live in poverty. well, this is not a problem of trade or money per se. yes, in some countries political system is oppressive and cleptocratic. over here they try to resurrect USSR and this is terrible, this means socialism and total poverty again. if this happens (I hope not) again I will move abroad, for sure.
Money is an arbitrary measure of work, but also of other things such as art, other currencies, speculation, assets, etc.. That's why a painting can be worth as much money as saving 1 million lives from starvation. There is nothing fair here. And money only has value in terms of trade. And the values it has created in people's heads, are insane.
No idea why you are now going into football fans mode of "isms". I did read and wrote a bunch about the invention of sch "isms" see this book tromsite.com/books/#flipbook-d…
I am not swimming into such waters of discussions.
all one needs in capitalist world is not being a lazy arse
I see where you are coming from. All of the poor people in the world salute you. They agree, they are all lazy. Talk about making silly comments...
You know, despite you being so simple minded about this, I much prefer to see humans doing nothing, to stay around and watch the sky and wonder what's
... show more
Money is an arbitrary measure of work, but also of other things such as art, other currencies, speculation, assets, etc.. That's why a painting can be worth as much money as saving 1 million lives from starvation. There is nothing fair here. And money only has value in terms of trade. And the values it has created in people's heads, are insane.
No idea why you are now going into football fans mode of "isms". I did read and wrote a bunch about the invention of sch "isms" see this book tromsite.com/books/#flipbook-d…
I am not swimming into such waters of discussions.
all one needs in capitalist world is not being a lazy arse
I see where you are coming from. All of the poor people in the world salute you. They agree, they are all lazy. Talk about making silly comments...
You know, despite you being so simple minded about this, I much prefer to see humans doing nothing, to stay around and watch the sky and wonder what's the meaning of life, than keep on being workers and produce more of the useless shit we have today, while having no time for anything else. I'd rather give people their basic needs and see them do nothing, then them destroying their lives, the biodiversity and everything else around.
we don't have slaves, we have to work to earn anything for ourselves.
Ah yes! If we don't work we die, but hey we are not forced to work, we can choose to die. See? We have choices! Smart!
some people don't want to work and live in poverty.
Why should people be forced to work in order to survive? Answer that.
so how this all is connected with diversion of labor and money as measure for human work? abosultely no relations.
You mean slavery, climate change, corruption, waste and such? Very simple, humans are forced and entangled with trade, thus they want more for themselves at any costs. That's the incentive. And so oil companies trade oil for fortune, and they don't want to switch to renewables since oil is profitable, it is a good trade for them. Thus the lobby governments to keep that status quo. Also, if it costs me more to recycle my waste than dumping it into the river, then I'll do that. Want more examples? I have written huge books about these. See tromsite.com/books
It is all related to trade of course. That's the foundation of our global societies from china to usa and everything in between.
Ah yes...that was it. Thanks. Now you can dismiss all of my points and leave the room. I was flawed, my "basic logic" is what I lacked. Ok have a nice trade life. Trade as much as you can. Be the best player you can be. Be proud of yourself. Bye :)
if you want - go read books on economics. this will help. but your theory does not fit even into plain everyday experience. so until you have a working plan how to barter code written in C for milk, tomatoes and cheese, I don't wanna proceed with this discussion.
in normal world I do this for over 20 years: I write code and buy all goods for money. no problem.
It is no problem for you because you don't understand the global impact of this practice. The simple act of eating chocolate means millions of slave children that are on cocoa plantations. That's 1 example. All due to trade, because we trade cocoa for this and that. So people are incentivized to maximize their profits. Slaves are free. That's a great business plan.
You fail to see the consumerism culture that's being created because of trade. The waste, the suffering. That's not a "normal" world, it is a sick world.
@Tio @Iron Bug @Rokosun Yes, this is something that we need to question: the very notion of trade. It might seem so normal to us and yes it might has been a useful tool for human societies to progress, but we have to question it. We have large hadron collider, can fly to the moon and mars and created technologies that are astonishing. Yet we see people starving, inequality rising, Bezos, Musk and other billionaires caring mainly about profits instead of the wellbeing of other human being or the planet. Why is that? Well, human behavior is influenced and shaped by the environment and since trade is the very foundation of our societies, it incentivices people to do exactly that (put profit above anything else). At first it's hard to see it, because trade seems to be eve... show more
@Tio @Iron Bug @Rokosun Yes, this is something that we need to question: the very notion of trade. It might seem so normal to us and yes it might has been a useful tool for human societies to progress, but we have to question it. We have large hadron collider, can fly to the moon and mars and created technologies that are astonishing. Yet we see people starving, inequality rising, Bezos, Musk and other billionaires caring mainly about profits instead of the wellbeing of other human being or the planet. Why is that? Well, human behavior is influenced and shaped by the environment and since trade is the very foundation of our societies, it incentivices people to do exactly that (put profit above anything else). At first it's hard to see it, because trade seems to be everywhere and in so many flavors (data trade, attention trade, social credits, citizenship, cryptocurrencies etc.) but they clearly have negative outcomes. But if you focus on trade-free goods/services you will find many people and projects working in this direction, like doctors without borders, wikipedia, free software and many other people who do important work without expecting anything in return for that.
sure. a man that could not maintain his own wife, lived on Engels' handout, living in an attic and having no money worte about "capital". for the beginning, I don't trust people that write about things they have never had or used, or earned. about capital I prefer to read Soros, he's an exellent example of capital owner and he knows what capital is and how to make it. and he also pays a lot to charity. to real charity, providing computers and books for education all over the world. this is the capital. and some beggar without his own corner cannot write anything good.
Right...you mean the ones who are playing the game and are successful at it, are the most reliable to objectively analyze the game? Sounds really smart.
Also, you can analyze the human suffering without being yourself a sufferer. Since that's what people like Marx have analyzed, the suffering in this "capitalism" (trade based) world.
@Iron Bug well, we should not brush aside the influence of money (a way to trade). If I am a company that produces cars, then the more I sell the more money I make, as simple as that. If people would use a saner way of transportation (public transportation for example), then I would loose profits. So I do not want that as a company and that's why I try to promote having a car as good,fancy and cool. It looks good in the first place (people have access to cars and can travel more etc.), but what are the consequences of that? Extraction of fossil fuel which leads to many problems (carbon emissions), massive amounts of cars standing around or not being used most of the day and value distortion of people as they need a new car every 3 years. The economy looks good in the first place (people have jobs, tribes specialize on one thing, others on something else), but if we look deeper, we can find problems behind almost every product (food, clothes, gadgets etc.), like slav... show more
@Iron Bug well, we should not brush aside the influence of money (a way to trade). If I am a company that produces cars, then the more I sell the more money I make, as simple as that. If people would use a saner way of transportation (public transportation for example), then I would loose profits. So I do not want that as a company and that's why I try to promote having a car as good,fancy and cool. It looks good in the first place (people have access to cars and can travel more etc.), but what are the consequences of that? Extraction of fossil fuel which leads to many problems (carbon emissions), massive amounts of cars standing around or not being used most of the day and value distortion of people as they need a new car every 3 years. The economy looks good in the first place (people have jobs, tribes specialize on one thing, others on something else), but if we look deeper, we can find problems behind almost every product (food, clothes, gadgets etc.), like slavery, waste, exploitation etc. and for what? Just to keep endless consumption going. And who wins in that game? Pretty much no one, as we all share the same planet, but a very short amount of people gain a lot of power because of that game. Think about 1% of all people on the planet have more than the other 99% (bbc.com/news/business-35339475). How can people even think this game is fair? That people must work hard to earn a living? Let's also not forget that this war is very good for the economy! Germany invests 100 billion dollars into the army and after this war is over, building up the economy in Ukraine means growth and profits for people! If I am a weapon manufacturer, I want to have war on this planet, because governments will love to buy my weapons to defend themselves. To have peace and provide the necessities of life for everyone as trade-free is not profitable for a company, so there is no or little incentive to do that.
I'm not rich like Soros, but I use my money for maintaining my own life, for helping opensource, opera theater, some projects in science. and without money one cannot help anything. and those who cannot feed themselves should not write books on economics. this is I know for sure.
If this doesn't record in your brain as a proof that this society is fucked up, then you are truly blind. Because you are mainly right in saying that. How unfortunate this is, right?
and that idiocy he wrote led to terrible consequencies in our country. 70 years of terror and poverty. this is the proof that baseless theories cannot and should not be applied to practice. we see that only capitalist countries live wealthy and have strong economics, with democratic values and a lot of freedom for citizens. and communistic tyrannies are all suppressing their citizens, as slaves, rob them and use murder for terror and keeping up their reign. this is practice.
Friend I think you do not know what Marx wrote, and what socialism and communism were about. There was no communism or socialism anywhere, ever. These ideas are indeed shallow, but China, Cuba, Romania and the rest, proclaiming to be communist at some point in time, were as far from the ideas of communism as capitalism is from freedom, or andromeda galaxy is from us.
Speaking of "capitalism" and freedom and democracy, these are nonsense ideas. USA, the "great capitalism" tribe, hosts millions of poor people and has no universal free healthcare, while spending a lot more on weapons of killing people than on those helping them. USA has tremendous inequality and is riddled with corruption. Same is for pretty much all so-called "capitalistic" tribes. I do not know in what fantasy you are living, but next time you talk about freedom go quit your job or do what you love doing, see how free you are to do that. Go travel, see if you hear the word "visa". And tell me when you vote for USA or others going to war or taking any important decision (or any decision for that matter), and t
... show more
Friend I think you do not know what Marx wrote, and what socialism and communism were about. There was no communism or socialism anywhere, ever. These ideas are indeed shallow, but China, Cuba, Romania and the rest, proclaiming to be communist at some point in time, were as far from the ideas of communism as capitalism is from freedom, or andromeda galaxy is from us.
Speaking of "capitalism" and freedom and democracy, these are nonsense ideas. USA, the "great capitalism" tribe, hosts millions of poor people and has no universal free healthcare, while spending a lot more on weapons of killing people than on those helping them. USA has tremendous inequality and is riddled with corruption. Same is for pretty much all so-called "capitalistic" tribes. I do not know in what fantasy you are living, but next time you talk about freedom go quit your job or do what you love doing, see how free you are to do that. Go travel, see if you hear the word "visa". And tell me when you vote for USA or others going to war or taking any important decision (or any decision for that matter), and then I'll listen about your democracy idea.
You must be asleep to believe these dreams about freedom and capitalism.
yes, because comminism does not exist in real life. and I'm telling this here to you from the very beginning. it's a lie. or fairytale, if you like it better. but I call this simply lie. I won't read books about money by the man that had no money. this is ridiculous. have you ever seen a man that wrote books on programming that has never written a program? or a man that wrote books on constuction having not built even a shack. and then why should I read wild fantasies of a man that was poor like a rat for whole his life about "how economics should work"? he didn't know a shit about economics. I know more, because I live on my own, at least, not on any handout. no way I would waste my time for such a wannabe. I prefer to read books of those who know the thing they write about.
In your view you'd rather read the books of Musk and Bezos to understand how bad this "capitalism" is, rather than reading the books of those who suffered because of capitalism? Makes no sense.
It is almost like trusting a rapist to tell you about how to behave with women.
Anyway forget about Marx, look at the trade-based society today. It is a pile of poopoo littered with very many bad things. What are we even debating here? That we cannot have any society other than based on trade? Where are we going with this discussion?
capitalism is excellent. just some lazy bums are so cheeky they want they're paid for doing nothing. man, I'm a foreigner and I worked for American companies with no problem. so then what the heck prevents people there work too? fuck, I don't believe this. they blame the best economics in the world. just stupid lazy losers.
You need an award my friend for the most ignorant homo sapiens on the planet. Go talk to some poor people, see what life really is. See how your comfort (if there is any ofc) is built on mountains of slaves and corruption and waste. We can move on with our lives if you don't mind. Go enjoy the american dream, you fully deserve it.
if you wanna see what's really bad - welcome to Russia. here you can have higher education, work on two works and make less than 200 bucks per month. this is bad. and you there have the blessed rose garden for work opportunities. just come and work, what do you need, the heck? this sounds crazy people having everything are complaining like stupid kids.
You sent me to the Bible, thanks. Same goes for all religious people.
Also you understood nothing from this discussion. I was never saying we should trade code for milk, or sex for shoes. I am saying the exact opposite. We should go beyond trade and share things, and do more volunteer work, and be free from this trade enslavement. Do it in organized fashion like we showcase here directory.trade-free.org/ . No need to drag a dead and wasteful system of trade into a present where we have so much abundance that we are creating mountains of waste out of it.
from my side, I have my own "sanctions" on putler and his gang: I don't work for any of their business, for companies that are affiliated with military, or with breaking the Internet connectivity with different bans and prohibiting people from getting information. I don't buy any goods that are produced by companies of putler's cronies. but this is all I can do about it. I'm not a Terminator to destroy the bunker and stop the war.
alas, not all people have a choice. I'm a skilled programmer, I can work remotely and I can choose a job I like and have many job offers. although recently I spent many months looking for a job, because I didn't want to work for Russian projects affiliated with the putler's government or criminal olygarchs. they build a huge surveillance and Internet blocking system over here and many IT companies work for these projects. I cannot accept this. but many people are just usual workers and often they have no choise where to work in their little towns. they often have only one factory in a town that belongs to some olygarch and no any variants. they have no savings to live without job for some time or move somewhere. so they should not be banned for paying taxes. they cannot avoid this, whatever they do.
people in little towns are very poor in this country. they make much less than $100 per month and this is beyond the imaginable level to survive. I don't know how they live. and such professions as teachers, nurses, common workers often make 7-10 thousands of roubles, nowadays this is 50-70 dollars. and now they got additional troubles with blocked cards, broken access to networks, closed shops and many more. and they expect they will go to protests? no way. all they can do now is surviving. people cannot go for rallies if they have troubles with food and basic needs. they're forced to work more, to run to banks trying to get their little money, to seek for some cheap food to feed their kids. and this is what's going on. and people won't do any revolutions, they have no time for this.
@Iron Bug it's very sad to hear about that... I have been in Nepal once and saw many poor people there too. I appreciate that you are not working for projects affiliated with the russian government or IT companies working with them. I think you are a good human being. Keep being like that :)
Spent hours today trying to do a part of the documentary, like less than 1 minute, and I failed :D . At times that's how it is. But you learn.....you improve....I do have some new ideas now I will try to finish that part tomorrow. Let's see. Then I start a new sort of part. In any case the work is going quite well. Happy about that. Also everything else works fine. Servers, services, websites... #tromlive
Call me crazy but I still think that these morons, all of them, created a very tense situation with the war in Ukraine and it is likely to blow up into something significant.
I predict WW3 in the coming months/years :D .
But hopefully I'm very wrong. I am continuing my work on TROM as usual tho. Despite these thoughts that I have. I, for sure, want to make a TROMcast about the situation and we are trying to invite some people who are close to the conflict. Let's see.
Some may argue that trade is a great tool for deescalating big conflicts like it is the case in Ukraine. Lots of tribes are imposing trading sanctions to Russia in order to make Russia stop the aggression towards Ukraine and end the war. So far it has not stopped the aggression but hopefully it will.
So, is trade, in the end, a good tool to keep war at bay?
Well, one has to wonder why has Russia been able to be aggressive with Ukraine in the first place. They have a huge army, but Europe also depends on them trade-wise. Quite a lot in terms on energy supply. So one can definitely argue that Russia used trade as a way to grow its aggression because it knew that Europe fears to intervene since they will lose in the game of trade if they did. Russia may as well have used (and they did use) trade as a way to gain aggression towards Ukraine for the past 8 or so years. Europe only intervened when it got threatened.
If anything trade allows for dictators to raise to power and maintain it. To abuse others and to enslave their own. And yes, at times trade can be used to minimize or stop the conflict, but the conflict may have been caused by trade itself. Like India seems to be very quiet and reluctant to accuse Russia's actions. They also import some 50% of their total armament from Russia for the past 4 or so years (source). So it is likely that trade makes a massive tribe like India do what Europe did in the beginning of the conflict: abstain. And since the conflict doesn't pose a threat to India, they keep on abstaining.
One can also argue that USA also has a lot to gain from going against Russia with the sanctions, since USA can take over the energy market in Europe if Russia gets kicked out.
Imagine this: if Europe had no trade agreements with Russia, then why would Europe let this situation escalate so much before taking some measures? They would probably have helped Ukraine much sooner with all kinds of assistance, military or humanitarian.
So keep these in mind, because the situation is never as black and white as it appears in the media.
If the Russian soldiers were not forced to trade their freedom (go to the army then to war, else you go to jail) then who would have wanted to join the army and go kill others? A lot less for sure. Maybe no one would.
If Russians (and not only) had their basic needs met as trade-free, so food, shelter, healthcare, freedom and so forth, then they could have had a choice and not join the military. But then you threaten them to get their food, shelter and freedom away if they do not join, so they have little to no choice.
But the bottom line is that trade is the origin of MOST problems, not all problems. So even if trade played no negative role in the current conflict, and can be used to avoid a WW3, then it still does not chnage the fact that trade pushes people to enslave, pollute, destroy, and so forth. On a global scale.
Also, what if instead of Europe and USA and others pumping weapons of mass destruction into Ukraine and into defending themselves, attacked the situation with solutions and built more homes, created more food, better energy sources, and so forth, so that they lure in people from Russia to join them, rather than kill them. To come and have a good life, without trading anything in return. To focus on informing people that we are all one species and we are taking care of each other. But perhaps those who trade weapons have a great incentive to lure in politicians into spending more on weapons and sending them to the conflict zone....
So, you want to end this war? Give all Russians free EU membership/access and trade-free access to accommodation, healthcare, food and their basic needs, and perhaps they will drop their weapons because why would they want to fight anymore?
It is true that all sorts of distorted values come into mix when such conflicts are happening, but they usually are a mere layer of sugar on top of a big cake, and the cake is the trade based system we live in. And whatever is on top of it, it is affected by it. That we should not brush aside.
Managed to do a lot of work on TROM II today. In total some 19 minutes of the second part are 90% done. Need some work here and there but the majority of that is done. May be faster than expected. Let's see....Happy with the work so far. #tromlive
I love that I can make blog posts on Friendica. Like proper ones with inline images, as many as I want, with formatting the text, add links to text, and so on. Even markdown works. Here's my latest post as a proof of that social.trom.tf/display/dbc8dc4…
Why are people not using Friendica more? Baffled! Why would I use something that limits my words or the post formatting...!?
Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •Tio likes this.