George Carlin’s American Dream
Interviews with George Carlin's family and friends, material from his stand-up specials and footage from his personal archive.VideoNeat
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Interviews with George Carlin's family and friends, material from his stand-up specials and footage from his personal archive.VideoNeat
It is not good that people think torrenting is old school and not practice it anymore. It is the greatest way of sharing content or streaming it. People nowadays prefer to watch whatever on some fucked up websites full of ads, just because they can click that play button. But torrenting is also super easy and allows us to keep these files available in this p2p fashion. And no ads and no BS.
In TROMjaro for example we ship with Webtorrent and if you click any magnet link it opens with it and you can play it in seconds. We plan to integrate videoneat.com into TROMjaro in the next months. So that you have access to thousands of documentaries and courses from a webapp. Click and watch.
If you use our SearX instance search.trom.tf and replace your pesky search engine like google, ddg, and such, that are milking your data and attention, then you can easily find torrents in the files section.
Listen. I hate google or any trade-based good/service. When you want something in return for what you offer, is not good... I have created a manjaro spin - see tromjaro.com/ - and I've used Linux for many years now. I also curate through thousands of Linux apps to find trade-free ones. I wrote books, made videos, documentaries, etc. about how much I hate these trade-based services like Google. But ....
So. We have this situation: MOM has hundreds of thousands of photos and videos. They are not organized. She wants them on her phone and laptop. Synced. Magically. She wants to share them on Facepalm or whatever networks. She wants to be able to do some simple editing too (rotate, crop, luminosity). She needs a simple interface and a simple solution overall. She does not understand much about computers. She thinks Facebook is the Internet, and a Fire Fox does not exist despite her using it daily.
My parents :)
They both use TROMjaro Linux as their daily distros for many years now.
So I want to help MOM deal with her photos. She basically take photos and videos with her phone, a lot of them, and wants an easy access to them. I tried many Linux apps and sync methods, and all are not sufficient. Most gallery apps do not allow you to set it up to keep an eye on a particular folder for new additions, and the ones who do are either broken or work but lack other features.
What I managed to do:
Install Syncthing on the Phone and Laptop. Sync her phone's camera folder with a local folder on her laptop. Then use FreeFileSync to one-way sync this local folder to one on her external HDD where all of the photos are (I had to involve cron jobs for this to work...). I do this so that she has a copy of them on her machine, since she can't store so much on her phone. This way, if she deletes the photos from her phone, they wont be deleted from her external HDD. So now we have an external HDD with all of her photos and videos. I then use Shotwell as the photo gallery app and set it up to keep an eye on that entire drive.
Great! Great? ...
This is how it looks like:
Not bad. Except for a few very annoying things.
Not to mention Shotwell is super slow...
So yeah we have to do gymnastics. At times the Syncthing app on her phone does not work and needs a restart, at times her external HDD disconnects (because she moves the laptop), so I am always on call to help her out.
Online alternatives?
I looked and looked at online alternatives...but can't find anything that works well or is cheaper than google photos. If I am to setup a NextCloud for her it would cost me twice as much + a lot of work. Plus, what about backups ha!? Currently she syncs the HDD to another one on my computer....local backups...with Syncthing... If NextCloud would be cheaper and had a decent photos apps I would consider trying.
I am tired.
I really tried to find a trade-free solution for this. With local drives, with open source software....but for so many photos and her needs, that are (let's be honest) similar to what most people need, then I honestly will go for a 10 Euros a month google photos subscription for her... She will have 2TB of storage, an app that integrates perfectly fine with her Android phone, a webapp for the laptop. A really good photo viewer, editor, and manager. It is super simple to use and works well. She will have the photos everywhere....backups are not an issue, google takes care of that...
I hate to do this but after years of trying I am tired and I cannot find a decent solution. If anyone knows a better way to do this, let me know....
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Some updates:
Money:
Webape.site - the new project I started so that I can make some money from (webdesign and such): I work on 1 project thanks to @Alexio . We may go for that and he says he may find me more. That'd be fantastic. @Cleo McKee may also go for that idea that we had, about creating a Peertube dedicated to "normalizing nudity". She even considers a Mastodon/Friendica instance. So let's see if she decides for these. That'd be awesome too. For one, that I can get more financial support, and second that we make those websites that I wanted to make for her. But ofc now I can't do it for free because I am financially fucked, and even if I wasn't I would spend time finishing TROM II first. But since I need money and I also like to see those projects, we can do this via webape.site.
Moving:
So my parents decided to stay 1 more year in Spain, which means that I and @Sasha do not have to rush and move to Romania....this is great news. The less great news is that my sister will move from September so we will have to split the monthly costs with my parents. So we sill need to make a lot of money. But yeah, this is way better than going back to Romania.
Documents:
So @Sasha is from USA and I am from Romania, and we want to live in Spain. Because we want to stay together. Anyway, we had to get married and all that in Romania, I also have a residency in Spain, etc.. But we were in the dark about what is her status here, legally (paperly). We finally went to a lawyer. So we have an answer. And it is of course another example of how fucked up the system is, but at least there is a way out of this shit for us.
So now she is not very welcomed in Spain, officially. She should not get into any sort of issue with the police here because she may get deported. BUT, if I have a job and be paid over 1k a month, then sure we can stay together haha. Or if I have a lot of money in my bank account. But I do not, ofc. So, we are poor and that alone restricts us from getting the right-papers for Sasha to stay here legally. Imagine the fuckery...isn't this "discrimination"?
On the other hand if she manages to stay with poor Tio for 3 years and Spain and we prove that, then she can apply for a job and then they give her the right papers....hahaha. At least that's an option for me because I won't get a job! :D. Fuck these retards. So in the beginning of next year we can probably do this for her. But such a retarded situation. Anyway....
So yeah, not many TROM updates at all right!? That's because I NEED TO MAKE MONEY. Unfortunately, But with this webape.site I could, in theory, make money while also helping nice projects and do something I am not bothered doing. Of course I would prefer to work on TROM II....but it is what it is....
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The ice melting cult
Imagine for a moment that there was this group of people in the world, screaming that the ice is melting and the sea levels are rising. They scream and scream how coastlines will be under water in 100 years time. "We need to stop the ice melting!" their slogans say. "We need more political will to stop the melting!" they are screaming.But then some weirdo comes and tells them...."You know that the ice melting and its impacts, are because of climate change...". He is quickly dismissed. The Ice Melting Cult marches forward, too blind to see that ice melting is just a symptom of a greater problem.
Well, this is what we are confronting nowadays via projects like TROM. The world is screaming "climate change", others say "the soil is being destroyed", some say "corruption is the problem". Plastic, waste, slavery, inequality. A LOT. But what they fail to see is that all of these are symptoms. Symptoms of trade.
Take climate change. The reason humans pollute so much and can't seem to change and move to renewables, is that...well...they have to trade. The fossil fuel industry is so huge in this trade game, that they can influence politics. Politics is a bunch of people who get a lot of money from being in those places. The other humans are too busy trading their life away to get access even to their basic needs, so what can they do. Everyone is in a race to trade, and in the process they are either destroyers of the environment (think big corporations), or numb zombies who can't even grasp these issues or do anything about them (think most workers).
So we are impotent to fix climate change simply because this trade based society does not allow it. It incentivizes humans to profit more, be mindless, consumers, etc.. Even if we switched to renewable energies tomorrow, these incentives will make humans create more and more waste, pollution, suffering, destroy the environment, and so forth. Pointless.
And so, to all of those who do not see this trade based society as the originators of most of today's problems, I am calling you out because you are in the Ice Melting Cult. And you have to wake up. Else we are all fucked. Thank you!
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We re-installed TROMjaro on @Sasha 's laptop. She was using the old Gnome version. All worked great. So smooth. Only 2 errors that were not as important but we fixed them and seem to be related with calamares + BTRFS. This and this.
But yeah. TROMjaro is still maintained and improved. And works great.
Our trade-free operating system. I encourage you to try it too! :) #tromlive
Our Friendica https://social.trom.tf got updated to the (almost) latest version. We are just 1 month behind the stable releases. Hopefully all works well if not let us know. #tromlive
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I remember in 2013 when I started to work with TVP and we released TVP Magazine. It felt like "we are doing it". That's it. People are paying attention. I got enough financial support to work for a few years and I was on fire. I produced lots of content and was so engaged. Then TVP died for me, and many others. That's because the closer I got to them, the more I realized it had no substance. Unfortunately. The ideas of Fresco were and are still quite important and inspirational. But they are just that, inspirational. And the organization was ran like a company plus they didn't do much anyway.
But well, I feel nostalgic at times because of that feeling of thinking that this is big. Important. Something will happen.
Since I moved away from TVP in 2016 I tried to bring that feeling back to TROM. But not artificially. It just so happened that I discovered that the entire structure of our society is based on trade, and this simple explanation provides us with a fantastic tool to try and change the society. Trade-Free.org was born. A few people got very excited. We met in 2019. We had plans. It died.
But not for me and a handful few. Unlike in the case of TVP, who was a cloud and the closer you got the more you realized it had no shape, our new approach was like a drop of water. From distance you may not see it, but the closer you got to it the more you realized that it had a shape, a structure, a form. TROM has substance and I dare anyone to challenge it :).
My excitement got even higher, but in different ways. I realized the race is long. And it takes time to get the idea behind TROM. TVP looked a lot more attractive but it was deceiving. TROM is the opposite in all regards.
I still love the idea of TVP/Jacque. But as inspirational. And I still feel sad that I do not see excitement in anyone really....but the TROM II documentary has some potential to bring some of that back. And as long as I am alive and have some money/support, I can keep on pushing things. After TROM II will be released I have a lot of plans, I will focus a lot on more content, videos, books, discussions and debates.
It is a long journey folks. And this society is not our friend, quite the opposite. I am trying to keep myself calm and sane. We have a lot to do. And I don't care if I am to do this alone. I probably will, one way or another. But likely there will be others too, pushing this further.
TROM II. Can't wait to release it. Whenever that will be.... #tromlive
Sharing my journey into the trade world. So I am trying to use a website where you can trade your body and mind for all sorts of projects. A job-seeking website. I can do websites so I am trying that. Everyone tries to maximize their gain there, so the offers are super low. So low...Plus you have some credits on the website and to apply for a trade you need to use these. And they run out quickly so you have to buy more to apply. Imagine that haha.
Also isn't it interesting that in this society I'd rather not spend time on the TROM projects, that are free, informative, scientific, FOSS, and so on, but I should make website for cryptobros, marketers, scammers, so that I can make a buck to be able to survive. See how this society forces me, and all of you, to become prostitutes?
If this is not slavery, then what is slavery?
Anyway. I am still trying folks.
I am releasing a new project to, hopefully, make some money so that I can support our TROM project and myself. This is it -->> webape.site/
So. I provide managed instances for Mastodon, Peertube, Nextcloud, Friendica, and a few other services. On top of this I am making any kind of website in Wordpress. This is my "skill" and so I will try to make some money like this. I have to, I have no choice.
But listen.
I am not making a "business" out of this. I want to do a decent job at it, so I will only take 20-30 projects. Enough to sustain myself and have the time to focus on TROM, plus be able to properly manage these paid-for websites.
I tried to provide really cheap and very "tempting" offers, if anyone is interested, since I will only post once about this on my profile, the rest go on the Federated profile of the project -->> social.trom.tf/profile/webape
Here is what I offer:
Mastodon:
Peertube:
Nextcloud:
Wordpress:
I can setup huge instances up to 25TB of diskspace. And provide support over email or chat (Matrix).
If you think anyone may be interested, give it a share.
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Work!
You're born with wings,
You learn to talk,
You have no time to fly or walk,
This world is empty,
You're just a stock.
Shut'up and listen.
Now go to work!Your time is running,
You're getting old,
Your wings are gone,
You barely walk.
There was no loss,
You're just a stock,
A trading value, in someone's flock.
PeerTube does it very well when it comes to the Federation-Moderation. Listen!
PeerTube allows you, the admin, to keep your instance clean. Nice rhyme! :)
You can follow any instance, channel, user that you want. Restrict the search to only these. And so when people use your PeerTube they see your curated content only, even when they search for something. While at the same time any user on your PeerTube can still subscribe, watch, and interact with ANYONE on any other PeerTube instances. That's how it should be.
A balance between having tremendous control over your own instance, but at the same time do not break the fediverse by cutting ties with other instances. Yes, PeerTube also gives admins the option to ban entire instances or users, but the fact that they give these positive reinforcers like mentioned above, makes an instance admin not want to use these "nuking" options.
This is because I and others have insisted that they provide us with these tools. We suggested to them what to implement and it works! My instance was full of crap, even after I started to manage it in terms of what users can upload on our PeerTube. But after they introduced custom homepages, the ability to follow channels, instances, users and limit the trending, discover, the search and the like, to only these, since then my instance is a fuck ton cleaner. So it works.
Why in the name of the fediverse I, the admin, may want to block any other instance when I have so much control over my own!?
Oh, and PeerTube also allows any user to quickly block any user and even delete all at once all of their comments from their videos. So imagine if someone trolls you on PeerTube, with 1 click you ban them from ever posting and also delete ALL of their comments on ALL of your videos.
Give users the power to protect themselves and make it very easy to do so. And give admins the power to keep their instances clean without the need of cutting ties with any other instances, something that will affect all users and have a slippery slope effect.
Don't break the fediverse :D #tromlive
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Why in the name of the fediverse I, the admin, may want to block any other instance when I have so much control over my own!?
Because I, as an admin, have an obligation to my users to shield them from harassment. It's far more practical to block an entire instance from federating with mine in any shape or form, than it is to ask my users to do so individually.
As an admin, I serve my users. If my users tell me they don't ever want to hear from $X, I'll block it for them.
I do not ask my users. They ask me, I evaluate, and act accordingly. And yes, they fully understand that our instances will not be able to communicate in the future. That is the desired outcome. There were 0 complains in the past 4 years.
And why is it better to put so much weight on 1 human (the admin) when everyone can take care of themselves?
Because it is much easier for them if I take care of it. Future users won't even need to.
I'll give you an example in the next toot.
Here's a scenario: my instances are LMBTQ+ friendly. This tends to attract a whole lot of harassers which none of us here want to ever interact with. So we first report the harassment to their instance admins, and if nothing happens, we just ban the whole thing. Problem solved, for all current and future users.
If I didn't ban them, each and every one of my users would have to, individually. Me doing it also makes ME the target of any retaliation, and I'm more equipped to handle that.
I'm not saying that individuals being able to ban and mute whatever they want is a bad thing. It's great. But the admin being able to help the entire instance is also a good thing.
Care must be taken, indeed, blanket bans are a double edged sword. But sometimes it is the right call. Neither my users, nor I ever want to interact with instances full of transphobes or other hateful people. Cutting those off at the admin level is more practical than every user doing it on their own.
Indeed, I cannot fully evaluate it. But if repeated harassers don't get dealt with, that's an instance I do not want to federate with. Any good people on those, can choose an instance that has admins who are willing to act on reports and not just make things worse.
If any of my users report that they are in any way inconvenienced with an instance ban, we'll figure something out. None of them did so far.
Yep, that's one of my instances, and I intentionally don't make my blocklist public.
This blocking is a blind game. I go on your instance and have no idea that you chose to not connect with other instances, The fediverse is already hard to grasp for most people, nowgo ahead and explain to them that it is not really like you can connect with anyone who has as federated account. It depends where these accounts get created. It is like XMPP server admins cut ties with other XMPP servers, and you have no clue about that.
This is a bad practice. Non transparent, confusing, rushed, unnecessary. Let the people take care of themselves and not break the fediverse.
It's not a blind game. I go to great lengths to research an instance before I block them. I explore other avenues first. My users - past, present and future - know my stance on blocking, they are aware that there are a dozen or two blocked instances. That's part of the onboarding process. This works for us fine, and has saved a lot of trouble for my users.
It is necessary, because asking each and every user to block the same stuff is not very practical. They don't want to deal with that.
Your instance has 7 users from what I see, but for instances larger than say 100 users this is not applicable. And it backfires. Also, why this need to take care of users when they can easily take care of themselves? Same way you do it for them, they can do it for themselves. You see a weird post/user, hover the name and block. Done. So the better and easier tools users have in this regards, the better will be for us all. Admins would not need to take care of these users.
For example if we would brainstorm more we could come up with an opt-in feature for users of any instances if they want to let the admins moderate stuff for them. Like an adblock list made by the admins. If I enable that then all of your blocking will protect me too, the user. But if I do not want that, let me see boobs and stuff and connect with anyone on the fediverse.
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This one does, yes. It's not the only one I run.
They technically can take care of themselves, yes. But it's much easier for everyone if they don't have to. Instead of 100+ people blocking the same things, a handful of them reporting to me, and me blocking is much more practical, and has the same net effect.
They see a bad post/user? They report. Done. For every single user, not just one.
I'm here to help my users, not make them do more work. It's better when they don't even see the bad.
My users are aware of which instances I blocked. The list is publicly not available, but my users can take a look if they want to, and can decide themselves whether that's ok for them or not.
And I repeat, this is the crucial point: not seeing a lot of bad in the first place, but still being able to report and/or block at the user level gives a much nicer experience than just the latter.
It's like spam filters. Your users can filter their own spam. It works better if you do globally too.
Good thing is: you can do that! And my users who prefer all of this to be handled for them, so they don't have to deal with it, can have it our way.
Having both options available is great. If purely user-level blocking works for you, great! It doesn't for many of my users, so I block for them. Everyone wins.
The instances I block, my users would block them anyway, so the net effect is the same, and it doesn't break fedi. It just keeps bad actors in their corner. I call that a win.
That'd still require my users to use the list one by one. They don't want to deal with any of that. They delegate the blocking and the backlash that comes with it to me.
Having the option to block at an instance level makes this possible. An admin can choose not to use the feature, and defer to users to handle blocks themselves. Users can also ask their admin to do it for them.
Both methods have their pros and cons, neither is better than the other, they're suited for different scenarios.
All my users are fine with me blocking. They wouldn't sign up otherwise. So they effectively sign up for the blocklist. Practically the same effect.
Whoever comes to my instances, agrees with the blocking. It's right there in the rules of my other servers. They can choose to go elsewhere. If they come to mine, they're fine with the status quo.
Maybe because you instance is made of 7 people.
Like I said, this is not the only instance I run.
Another scenario, which happened just last week: some of my users reported an abuser, I looked into it, blocked that single person on the instance level, so they don't harass others. People from their instance - including their admin - started to dogpile on me a few minutes after. So I blocked them on my account. Then they started to harass random users on my instance, people who never interacted with them before.
So I blocked the entire instance to avoid having my users harassed.
If I didn't block at the instance level, they would've dogpiled on hundreds of users. It's not reasonable to expect them all to handle the fallout from other users blocking people as users.
This is where admins need to step in, and block the abusers hard.
You still don't get it. My users do not want to deal with it. They could, they choose not to. They come to my instance, because I deal with blocking, and the fallout.
No matter how easy it is to press a button, it has other consequences (see my dogpiling example earlier), possibly for other users too. They don't want to deal with that.
If I had an opt-in adblock, every user of mine would subscribe. So it's effectively an instance-wide block. Why bother with the extra steps then?
An adblock-like list many subscribe to does not prevent collateral damage. Those who subscribe to it, will end up blocking people and servers the same way an instance-wide block would.
All such a list accomplishes is some people not using them, at the cost of forcing everyone else into an extra step to opt into it.
Collateral damage will still be there. More burden on the users, too, and a larger attack surface. No thanks, we'll go with instance blocks, they're more practical for us.
To reiterate: instance-wide blocks aren't the be-all, end-all solution. They don't work for every server, or every user, either. But they do work for a fair number of servers & users, usually on top of user-level blocking.
Same goes for user-level blocking.
Both have their pros and cons, both have their place. Neither is inherently better than the other, because they're better for different scenarios. Having them both gives us the flexibility to set things up as we wish.
An adblock-like list many subscribe to does not prevent collateral damage. Those who subscribe to it, will end up blocking people and servers the same way an instance-wide block would.
They will, not you. That's better for whoever wants that.
All such a list accomplishes is some people not using them, at the cost of forcing everyone else into an extra step to opt into it.
Then make it opt-out. So much easier. No need for you to manage their lives.
I don't think that banning harassers is breaking the fediverse. Anyone who happened to be on a wrong instance by mistake, can easily move elsewhere, they're not tied to any one server, the protocol has a quite reasonable solution for migrating to another server to help with that, too.
Banning harassers at the instance level keeps my users happy, and on the fediverse. It makes Fedi a safer, happier place.
My users want to enjoy being here, not spend their time blocking. That's what I'm for
Anyone who happened to be on a wrong instance by mistake, can easily move elsewhere, they're not tied to any one server
Easier said than done. Moving all the time is for sure not an easy task. Plus you never know who what banned.
Otherwise (as mentioned by others int his thread) it introduces scaling problems.
Les say, there is an instance filled with 50% incels spreading hate.
Those other 50% lurking in to that, know what they signed up for.
I totally getting the whole instance blocked.
Alternative: instances federating on a allow-list basis instead of an block-list of other instances and be transparant about that.
Since this thread I do see examples where blocking seems extreme:
This rather polite conversation starting here:
gladtech.social/@Are0h@ubiquer…
Let to this respons and below:
gladtech.social/@vesperto/1095…
Which let to an instance block:
ubiqueros.com/notes/98z37fr0mw
After seeing how the admin of gladtech[DOT]social handled a recent situation with a racist user, I'm going to recommend blocking that instance.Ubiqueros: A PV Joint
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One person blocking 100 spammers vs. 100 people blocking 100 spammers each — that’s 100 actions vs. 10.000 actions.
If your instance is so big that the moderator cannot decide whether something is spam, then your instance might be too big.
Or you need tools that scale better without centralizing control. Like the ones Freenet has: draketo.de/software/decentrali…
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If you don’t like that, choose a different instance.
An instance can be a community, not only a service.
People can choose an instance precisely because of the rules of the instance.
Why should people who don’t like nudity not be able to organize on their own instance that blocks all nudity?
I've heard that reply many times before: if you don't like it, go somewhere else. But this is irrelevant for what I am saying. I argue that the practice of banning instances by admins is detrimental to the entire fediverse. Same way you think banning nudity is ok because you have a little community of people who are afraid of nipples, others may think that being "gay" is detrimental to their own community. And so forth. And in the name of thousands, a dozen people will interrupt the communication. Let the "gays" talk to the nudists! You know what I mean!?
And I was showcasing the example of Peertube which provides a great set of tools to keep your instance clean and safe without nuking any bridge.
Let’s replace the nipples and gays with targeted insults and ganging up on people.
Do you understand what I mean?
If you don’t like that, have a look at the tools that actually provide scaling defense against spam and such which I linked in my previous post: rollenspiel.social/@ArneBab/10…
That said, I still think having instances with per-instance rules has value.
Your argument "banning is detrimental" doesn’t quite work, because in the Fediverse you can easily have several accounts.
@tio@social.trom.tf One person blocking 100 spammers vs. 100 people blocking 100 spammers each — that’s 100 actions vs. 10.000 actions.Die Heimat für Rollenspieler
And I have experienced how an attempted takeover by Neonazis feels. I want my instance-moderators to block those instantly and without remorse.
Similar has happened on Mastodon: blogghoran.se/2019/07/12/on-ma…
I can imagine some people having dejavus from Newsnet server messages about mailservers. And the perks of blocking a domain (federation-level) versus blocking a user (individual level).
Cant blame Fediverse for introducing moderation at the federation level (next to the individual level).
`
I can imagine moderating as a form of curation.
Like a community of schools operating peertube instances.
For pupils it would be very clear: if I go that instance I only see things my school offers as part of curricula without a myriad other vids.
So the earlier upstream discussion in this thread stays the same.
And 'only promote what you want' doesnt solve it.
I think every perspective is mentioned earlier so no need for me to repeat them.
If users seek a safe-heaven in the form of a partly isolated instance, let them.
Same goes for closed forums, closed social media groups in central systems.
Federating the system doesnt make this need obsolete all of a sudden.
But you are missing my point too. Somehow. I didn't say you should not have that. I said this practice, used by so many and for no good reasons, is damaging the fediverse. While at the same time there are better approaches like I mentioned about Peertube. We should be wiser and think further ahead for this fediverse thing, so we don't break it. If a massive instance blocks left and right other instances, and people don't even know that, then it is complete madness and breaks what we call as the fediverse.
That's my point: the practice of banning entire instances at the admin level is a very rudimentary and in the long term harmful approach. We have better tools that won't create these side effects.
I think peer-2-peer is more suitable for what you want (censoring is routed around) then federation.
Moderating at the federation level is intrinsic to a federation, at least at a technical level. To compensate for that one need governance.
Which is hard for loosely coupled federation nodes. When a federation acts as a community its different, but thats not the case.
For those who do not see a problem when admins from the fediverse block entire instances from communicating with theirs, here's something: I have a Peertube and a Friendica instance. Thousands of users in total. If anyone decides to cut the connection with us (now or in the future) I will have no clue about that. The users will have no clue. Not those on my instances or on theirs. No one is notified of anything. We might be blocked already, I have no idea.
Let that sink in.
If you call this decentralization then you have to tune it down to: centralized and dispersed communications that are handled and managed by a few. We have multiple Facebooks with multiple Zuckys. It is better than FB by a lot, but this is not in any sense true decentralization, as long as a tiny fraction of people (the ones able and willing to have instances) are deciding for the rest of the users.
We need each user to be their own broadcaster without any middleman. No servers. No admins. You should be able to connect to whoever you want, and no one but you or the other part of the conversation, to interrupt that communication. Period.
And no, it is not viable for everyone to have their own Mastodon. Meaning a server, install and manage it, etc.. That's ridiculous. Will never happen.
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The problem with pure peer to peer is that it means everyone needs to be an server admin. Few people want to deal with those headaches. Few people want to learn even basic beginner's server administration.
Web based client-server applications offload the server headaches onto someone else. Federated platforms offer at least some choice, by making it practical to choose a friendly server admin without somehow also convincing everyone else you care about to also switch.
The bottom line is that pure peer-to-peer systems remain a very obscure niche, while diaspora and Mastodon have demonstrated sustained popularity over time.
There's no such thing as "magic happens". Someone has to be administering security on the device.
I'm not familiar with Jami or Manyverse, but Scuttlebutt is a great example of something that's been going nowhere fast.
People like using web based applications because they don't have to install anything. They don't have to worry about figuring out software updates, or managing firewall settings, or security keys. Someone else figures out certificates and identity authentication, and discovery.
And discovery is the real rub. Scuttlebutt isn't pure peer-to-peer, of course. Discovery needs to be handled by pub servers with permanent IP addresses and a more serious server admin and such.
A true peer-to-peer system wouldn't have pubs like that. But how do you make it work? And how do you make it something people will actually want to use?
When it comes right down to it, people are more comfortable with letting that server take care of things, like in diaspora or Mastodon. The half-hearted way Scuttlebutt does things gives you the headaches of both client-server and peer-to-peer.
Someone has to be administering security on the device.
You mean on your device? Yeah, that's the user :).
People like using web based applications because they don't have to install anything.
Actually most people use "apps" nowadays. Whatsapp, Instagram, FB, and so forth. They do insatll them and it is fast.
Someone else figures out certificates and identity authentication, and discovery.
That's why you have to make the setup easy. Jami does a good job at it. Try it.
And discovery is the real rub. Scuttlebutt isn't pure peer-to-peer, of course. Discovery needs to be handled by pub servers with permanent IP addresses and a more serious server admin and such.
Yeah that's why these are not ready yet. But it can be solved with nodes and such.
But how do you make it work? And how do you make it something people will actually want to use?
Similar maybe to how the Bittorrent network works.
"Most people use 'apps' nowadays. Whatsapp, Instagram, FB, and so forth."
Haha. Interesting that you list three commercial for profit centralized systems, all owned by the same person and all for profit for the same person.
The apps you speak of cost money, because they're put into for-profit closed gardens like iOS and Google Play. The ones administering the security on those devices are Apple and Google. It costs them a lot of money to do this. In return, they get lots of profits from their closed garden app stores.
This is a pay-for-play tradeoff, which people accept because they prefer someone else to handle that stuff even at the cost of money, freedom, privacy, and security.
And even if they didn't accept that tradeoff, what choice do they have? If you want to make and receive phone calls, you're basically forced into iOS or Android.
Anyway, you're never going to see a true peer-to-peer system on something like that. It's quintessentially part of a for-profit closed garden system, so anything that doesn't fit in with their centralized control and profit system gets pulled from the app store.
In contrast, Linux, Windows, and MacOS allow any third parties to run software completely outside of the control of a closed garden. It's possible to publish true open source freeware on these platforms, with anyone distributing their own software. But this comes at a price. For most people, who are only familiar with Windows and maybe MacOS, this means a lot of bizarre headaches trying to figure out software updates, as well as figuring out whose download site to trust. And you just have to trust that whatever mechanism is used for software updates, the ones in charge are on the ball with security updates. Hopefully. With the major Linux distributions, it's different, but bluntly most people aren't using Linux.
I don't mean that commercial apps should be p2p.
I mean that an open source freeware p2p can't make it on iOS or Google Play because of the money Apple and Google demand to be in their closed gardens.
Anyway, Scuttlebutt isn't pure peer-to-peer as I noted. In order to actually find anyone else, you need to rely upon fixed IP servers just like diaspora or Mastodon pods. It's completely reliant on the same sort of servers and server admins as diaspora/Mastodon pod servers anyway, just with extra client install requirements.
So, there's not actually any benefit, and significant down side.
Surprise, surprise, Scuttlebutt is a tiny niche compared to diaspora or Mastodon's user base.
If you have some idea of how to make true peer-to-peer work within the existing way the internet works ... well, that would be amazing. As it is, the problem may be intractable.
It is different, certainly, but in ways that are reasons why Mastodon is popular and Scuttlebutt is not.
People don't like hosting all the content locally. People don't like needing to have their own server connected 24/7 with bandwidth consumed by others (often costing them a lot of money). People don't like having their IP address published in public.
Well, what can be done to make them popular?
I honestly don't know.
I remember that early on, diaspora was complex and confusing to people, who were largely using Facebook at the time. This complexity and confusion prevented a lot of people from switching over, but enough people gave it a shot anyway because of dissatisfaction with Facebook and a lack of other mature alternatives.
With Mastodon, its popularity was driven by ease of moving from Twitter to Mastodon. It had some interoperability, at least for a critical time for Mastodon to become popular enough on its own.
These two cases are pretty different, but a commonality is mass migration from a popular commercial platform.
Do you envision something similar?
agreed, the mobile pwa and MetaText iOS apps are so modern.
It can stand up to the Twitter apps easily, if not better!
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Every 6 months yes. Mastodon has such options?
But yeah perhaps yours caches remote media that's why.
Wu Wei
in reply to Tio • • •"If this is not slavery, then what is slavery?"
Please, please tell me this is some kind of extreme satire.
Are you actually comparing your discomfort of building a few websites for a fee with actual slavery?
Sasha
in reply to Wu Wei • •@Wu Wei :xfce: :rss: :terminal: it is slavery because you don't get a choice. You cannot survive (get food/shelter/etc.) unless you trade yourself in this society. And I think you're missing the point- @Tio does a ton of work. He works harder than anyone I know (he works all day, every day, no weekends, no holidays), but all the work he does he gives away for free. Great educational material, software, a ton of stuff- all for free because he wants to do good things. And in this society he gets punished for that- precisely because he's not trading. So instead of focusing on doing good things, this society forces him to sell things for a buck. Because he has no choice- that's why it's slavery. No choice.
Of course some people have it worse than others, but during the slave trade (for example) some slaves had it worse than others- some were whipped, others had a "nice" owner, but that doesn't mean they weren't slaves. Same today- if you're lucky, you may get to choose a nicer owner, that doesn't mean you're not a slave.
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Wu Wei
in reply to Sasha • • •Being owned by someone, just like property, body and soul, makes you a slave.
Tio
in reply to Wu Wei • •Tio
in reply to Wu Wei • •My reaction to your comment is: Please, please tell me this is some kind of extreme satire.
Friend, as long as I am forced to do the things I do not want to do, and the alternative of not doing them is to starve or be homeless, then yes that is slavery. Forced labor. Can you have any argument against this?
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thisfro
in reply to Tio • • •By that logic, existance itself would need be slavery? As you would starve as well, if you don't do the work of acquiring food, water and other essentials to survive. I guess that is logically correct, but not excaxtly a widespread idea of what slavery is.
Now, we do have the technology and tools to at least lower the burden of having to work jobs we don't want to, but somehow this is not happening...
Tio
in reply to thisfro • •My comment is, of course, encapsulated inside the society we live in. Because it is the cause of this problem. A society in which we throw 50% of all edible food, where we have more homes than homeless people, we throw 350 cruse-ships of electronics a year, and hundreds more of clothes. In a society of abundance and waste, we force people to slave in order to survive. Did I mention that I can't just go and hunt some animals, or plant stuff, or make a house for myself!? Everything is owned already.
So I have no choice but to comply with this society's rules, whatever they are. Else I am fucked.
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Wu Wei
in reply to thisfro • • •"Just" being forced to do something simply isn't slavery. Slavery is quite a defined term.
Tio
in reply to Wu Wei • •Sasha likes this.