Two things scare me the most, personally. First is death or health related issues. It is normal, if I die I'm fucked for eternity :). I think this is easy to understand for many people.
Second thing that scares me so much is to slip back into the fantasy world that humans created and forget about the amazing reality discovered for the past hundreds of years. To become too normal, even if that can mean to laugh, have fun, enjoy. I am scared of this. I battled this for all of my life trying to inject myself with reality bits and info (atoms, galaxies, evolution, stars and everything real) in the hope that my brain can understand the value of reality. It is hard. It is so hard and it is something I feel not many, if any, understand. It is also something that you can lose very fast, when you "get it".
I wanted to put a printed Hubble image of the Andromeda galaxy on the ceiling in my room when I was in college so that when I wake up it will remind me of how reality is mind blowing and the human invented one is a simplistic, myopic and colorless at best.
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Two things scare me the most, personally. First is death or health related issues. It is normal, if I die I'm fucked for eternity :). I think this is easy to understand for many people.
Second thing that scares me so much is to slip back into the fantasy world that humans created and forget about the amazing reality discovered for the past hundreds of years. To become too normal, even if that can mean to laugh, have fun, enjoy. I am scared of this. I battled this for all of my life trying to inject myself with reality bits and info (atoms, galaxies, evolution, stars and everything real) in the hope that my brain can understand the value of reality. It is hard. It is so hard and it is something I feel not many, if any, understand. It is also something that you can lose very fast, when you "get it".
I wanted to put a printed Hubble image of the Andromeda galaxy on the ceiling in my room when I was in college so that when I wake up it will remind me of how reality is mind blowing and the human invented one is a simplistic, myopic and colorless at best.
Most humans are today as they were 400, 1.000 , or more years ago. Let's have a beer, a chat, get married, fuck, have kids, gossip, have fun or war. Not saying some of these are not good or reasonable, but isn't it mindblowing that not much has changed in the core of our global society and the day to day life of humans for the past 400 years considering in this time we discovered cells, atoms, galaxies, evolution, and everything in between?
To me, this is so odd it creates a turmoil in my head. I think I have an explanation why this is the case tho: an aggressive trade-based society where everyone is a working ant. No time to even know about reality, let alone absorb it.
Reality is shocking, mind-blowing, fabulous, scary, infinitely complex and amazing. Day to day life in this society is simplistic and almost parallel to reality.
If you don't fee like losing your mind when you think about this contrast, I don't think you understand.
I sometimes think of death as an external sleep and it makes it seem less frightening, except the pain of death and health issues ofc - those are still scary.
As for humans not changing in any fundamental ways over many centuries it doesn't feel that surprising to me - isn't this the case for most creatures on earth? 🤔 But yeah I do still wish for some things to change, things like wars and environmental destruction, or the fact that humans are still forced to be like working ants - that sucks because it takes away their precious time.
If you think about it the universe also feels stagnant sometimes, the moon rotates around the earth and the earth rotates around the sun - it has been like that for millions of years. I've heard that the Andromeda galaxy will one day collapse with the Milkyway to create a new galaxy, but the time it takes for that to happen is so long that my lifespan feels insignificant in comparison. Hell most of us don't even notice the
I sometimes think of death as an external sleep and it makes it seem less frightening, except the pain of death and health issues ofc - those are still scary.
As for humans not changing in any fundamental ways over many centuries it doesn't feel that surprising to me - isn't this the case for most creatures on earth? 🤔 But yeah I do still wish for some things to change, things like wars and environmental destruction, or the fact that humans are still forced to be like working ants - that sucks because it takes away their precious time.
If you think about it the universe also feels stagnant sometimes, the moon rotates around the earth and the earth rotates around the sun - it has been like that for millions of years. I've heard that the Andromeda galaxy will one day collapse with the Milkyway to create a new galaxy, but the time it takes for that to happen is so long that my lifespan feels insignificant in comparison. Hell most of us don't even notice the trees growing around us because it happens very slowly lol 😄 But the one thing that has had significant changes is our understanding of the universe, we sent humans to space, rovers to mars, etc so that we could study it. We made a giant foldable telescope and sent it into space just so we could see distant galaxies more clearly! 🤓 Hell we photographed a black hole! 😃 So in the end it is still about humanity, the leaps and bounces we make in trying to understand the universe 🙂
Well doesnt scare you the thought that you will never wake up or dream? :D - To me this realization that I will disappear forever is really frightening.
As for humans not changing in any fundamental ways over many centuries it doesn't feel that surprising to me - isn't this the case for most creatures on earth?
No because I am talking culturally/mentally change. No other creature can imagine like humans do. And to find out that you are made up of cells, or atoms, or are other solar systems out there, but not change in any fundamental way how you see your image, is weird to me.
Those missions are not just "humans exploring out of curiosity" - there are many people involved who just "do their job" as an engineer, scientist, etc.. I remember seeing videos from ISS with "scientists" wearing a cross, and being so "christians"....to me that's so weird. Also celebrating the SuperBall and I bet many watch Netflix in space.
My point is that if we were to discover that inside our skulls there is a green little man pushing buttons....and we have phot
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Well doesnt scare you the thought that you will never wake up or dream? :D - To me this realization that I will disappear forever is really frightening.
As for humans not changing in any fundamental ways over many centuries it doesn't feel that surprising to me - isn't this the case for most creatures on earth?
No because I am talking culturally/mentally change. No other creature can imagine like humans do. And to find out that you are made up of cells, or atoms, or are other solar systems out there, but not change in any fundamental way how you see your image, is weird to me.
Those missions are not just "humans exploring out of curiosity" - there are many people involved who just "do their job" as an engineer, scientist, etc.. I remember seeing videos from ISS with "scientists" wearing a cross, and being so "christians"....to me that's so weird. Also celebrating the SuperBall and I bet many watch Netflix in space.
My point is that if we were to discover that inside our skulls there is a green little man pushing buttons....and we have photos of that, and so on, but you tell to people about it and they are like "hm, ok, yah" and move on with their life....this is WEIRD :D
Well doesnt scare you the thought that you will never wake up or dream? :D - To me this realization that I will disappear forever is really frightening.
Yeah it is kinda scary to think that you'll never be able to experience the world again, but once you're dead you're also not conscious anymore and without that you cannot miss what you had before. But yeah ofc it's normal to be scared of death, we all are to some extent.
No because I am talking culturally/mentally change. No other creature can imagine like humans do. And to find out that you are made up of cells, or atoms, or are other solar systems out there, but not change in any fundamental way how you see your image, is weird to me.
I think the discovery of these things actually did have an impact on our culture, but perhaps not as pronounced as it should've been. I remember the first time I learned about atoms as a kid, that was a mind blowing experi
Well doesnt scare you the thought that you will never wake up or dream? :D - To me this realization that I will disappear forever is really frightening.
Yeah it is kinda scary to think that you'll never be able to experience the world again, but once you're dead you're also not conscious anymore and without that you cannot miss what you had before. But yeah ofc it's normal to be scared of death, we all are to some extent.
No because I am talking culturally/mentally change. No other creature can imagine like humans do. And to find out that you are made up of cells, or atoms, or are other solar systems out there, but not change in any fundamental way how you see your image, is weird to me.
I think the discovery of these things actually did have an impact on our culture, but perhaps not as pronounced as it should've been. I remember the first time I learned about atoms as a kid, that was a mind blowing experience for me! And I remember discussing about these ideas with a friend who was also blown away by these things. The crazy thing is that it almost feels like science fiction, and I know people have theorized about this idea centuries ago that maybe all matter was made out of some fundamental particles - those were just theories back then, until we discovered through science that it was actually real! Over time I got used to the idea of atoms and it doesn't excite me anymore like when I was a kid first discovering it, but this is pretty normal - it keeps me wanting to learn new things so that I could feel like that kid again 🙂
Those missions are not just "humans exploring out of curiosity" - there are many people involved who just "do their job" as an engineer, scientist, etc.. I remember seeing videos from ISS with "scientists" wearing a cross, and being so "christians"....to me that's so weird. Also celebrating the SuperBall and I bet many watch Netflix in space.
Religion and science is a weird mix for sure, but I don't know maybe it works in this weird ant worker society we got going lol 😄 Stuff like SuperBall and Netflix could be argued as a waste of time (if someone's spending too much time on it), but at least these are not fundamental beliefs like religion and likewise not as harmful.
My point is that if we were to discover that inside our skulls there is a green little man pushing buttons....and we have photos of that, and so on, but you tell to people about it and they are like "hm, ok, yah" and move on with their life....this is WEIRD :D
Oh yeah I get what you mean, I don't understand people who don't have any curiosity man 😅 It is sad to see people being apathetic to these things. Sometimes when I learn about something really cool and wanna share it with others I have no one around me who could understand it or share that excitement with me, sometimes when there is someone they'll be too busy to have the time for it - experiences like that does make me feel alone sometimes.
but once you're dead you're also not conscious anymore and without that you cannot miss what you had before
The missing part is for the alive ones :P like us. So ofc it is frighting to think about it.
I think the discovery of these things actually did have an impact on our culture, but perhaps not as pronounced as it should've been.
I do not see that impact. People's lives are the same as they were hundreds or thousands of years ago: work, consume, get married, have kids, gossip, and all that. These discoveries didn't even make us feel like one species. We are still divided into tribes.
Sometimes when I learn about something really cool and wanna share it with others I have no one around me who could understand it or share that excitement with me, sometimes when there is someone they'll be too busy to have the time for it - experiences like that does make me feel alone sometimes.
Yeah exactly....as I was saying since people are so busy to trade mostly. It sucks and it destroys curiosity. It really sucks.
Mmm, depends what you mean by "core of our global society" I guess.
Most people are always going to want to concentrate on things of immediate relevance. I mean, yes, cells and galaxies are wonderful and all, but how does that change anything you can do in your day to day life ? For most people, unless you're a doctor or an astronomer, it doesn't.
On the other hand... a lot less people are involved in manual labour today than they were even 40 years ago, let alone 400. How many people even earned a living from website design 40 years ago ? In some ways the changes have been profound even at the practical level, let alone the subtler realm of world views (which have changed beyond recognition).
In Stephen Baxter's novels he refers to all the accessories needed for manned spaceflight collectively as plumbing : we need to bring along a hell of a lot of stuff just to keep us going. Likewise, what have we learned that prevents the need for sex, trade and beer (not necessarily in that order) ? Nothing, really. We still need to do all that stuff. It's
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Mmm, depends what you mean by "core of our global society" I guess.
Most people are always going to want to concentrate on things of immediate relevance. I mean, yes, cells and galaxies are wonderful and all, but how does that change anything you can do in your day to day life ? For most people, unless you're a doctor or an astronomer, it doesn't.
On the other hand... a lot less people are involved in manual labour today than they were even 40 years ago, let alone 400. How many people even earned a living from website design 40 years ago ? In some ways the changes have been profound even at the practical level, let alone the subtler realm of world views (which have changed beyond recognition).
In Stephen Baxter's novels he refers to all the accessories needed for manned spaceflight collectively as plumbing : we need to bring along a hell of a lot of stuff just to keep us going. Likewise, what have we learned that prevents the need for sex, trade and beer (not necessarily in that order) ? Nothing, really. We still need to do all that stuff. It's just that now our conversations are about different things and proceed from different assumptions. The shift is subtler than changing our gross behaviours - except where technology or other developments make this unavoidable - but no less powerful for that. You don't find people worrying about miasma anymore, but actually disinfecting things properly.
The other factor is that frequent consideration of our place in the Universe on scales both large and small is likely a quick route to insanity. :)
Most people are always going to want to concentrate on things of immediate relevance. I mean, yes, cells and galaxies are wonderful and all, but how does that change anything you can do in your day to day life ? For most people, unless you're a doctor or an astronomer, it doesn't.
Probably "immediate relevance" means whatever they are made to focus on in this society: iphones, gadgets, stupid tv shows, events, consume, drama, etc.. Cells and galaxies and the rest are something one can use to change the way they see themselves and others. Like we are all humans, all connected, no need for artificial separations like borders, nationalities, color of the skin, etc.. These are also wonderful discussion topics and may make people buy a telescope/microscope rather than a new phone. There are many implications resulting from such a scientific mind set.
On the other hand... a lot less people are involved in manual labour today than they were even 40 years ago, let alone 400. How many people even earned a living from website design 40 years ago ? In s
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Most people are always going to want to concentrate on things of immediate relevance. I mean, yes, cells and galaxies are wonderful and all, but how does that change anything you can do in your day to day life ? For most people, unless you're a doctor or an astronomer, it doesn't.
Probably "immediate relevance" means whatever they are made to focus on in this society: iphones, gadgets, stupid tv shows, events, consume, drama, etc.. Cells and galaxies and the rest are something one can use to change the way they see themselves and others. Like we are all humans, all connected, no need for artificial separations like borders, nationalities, color of the skin, etc.. These are also wonderful discussion topics and may make people buy a telescope/microscope rather than a new phone. There are many implications resulting from such a scientific mind set.
On the other hand... a lot less people are involved in manual labour today than they were even 40 years ago, let alone 400. How many people even earned a living from website design 40 years ago ? In some ways the changes have been profound even at the practical level, let alone the subtler realm of world views (which have changed beyond recognition).
This has nothing to do with the way people are. A webdesigner today and a house constructor from 600 years ago have a lot in common. Probably both want to get married, have kids, want to buy stuff, trade, not curious about the scientific world, etc..
Yes, but most scientists also want to buy stuff, get married, etc. We don't spend the whole time pontificating on the nature of reality because, as I said, it would drive us mad.
I think the general mindset of the modern world has changed, substantially, from where it was centuries ago. Social attitudes have changed radically from where they were even a few decades ago : compare the role of women in the workplace in the 1950s, or how homosexuals were treated in the 1980s. There isn't full equality yet, but good lord there's been a colossal shift in that direction (interestingly of course, if you go back further through history, you often find shifts in both positive as well as negative directions compared to the modern era, e.g. homosexuality in ancient Greece).
Yes, lots of people use gadgets and whatnot for watching stupid TV shows and the like. But they also use them for watching educational stuff.
I dunno, I just think there's no one right way to live one's life. I'm an astronomer, but I'd no more want to force astronomy on those unwilling to do it t
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Yes, but most scientists also want to buy stuff, get married, etc. We don't spend the whole time pontificating on the nature of reality because, as I said, it would drive us mad.
I think the general mindset of the modern world has changed, substantially, from where it was centuries ago. Social attitudes have changed radically from where they were even a few decades ago : compare the role of women in the workplace in the 1950s, or how homosexuals were treated in the 1980s. There isn't full equality yet, but good lord there's been a colossal shift in that direction (interestingly of course, if you go back further through history, you often find shifts in both positive as well as negative directions compared to the modern era, e.g. homosexuality in ancient Greece).
Yes, lots of people use gadgets and whatnot for watching stupid TV shows and the like. But they also use them for watching educational stuff.
I dunno, I just think there's no one right way to live one's life. I'm an astronomer, but I'd no more want to force astronomy on those unwilling to do it than I'd appreciate being forced to, say, play basketball. I honestly haven't got a clue what people get out of playing sports but if that's what they like, so be it.
I do wish we could stop the utterly vacuous stuff though : Keeping Up With the Kardaashians, endless celebrity gossip and the like. But I'm not sure it's possible. We seem hard wired to be very interested in judging each other, and no amount of cosmic mystiwisdom seems able to change that.
It is not about "pontificating" about atoms, galaxies, and what-not, is about how these fundamental truths that were only discovered recently seem to have no impact on the vast majority of people. And that is very strange.
I am lucky to be around people who are excited about these real things so we often talk about these, we go with the telescope and watch some planets, or look at things through the microscope, etc.. I cannot even watch movies anymore, I watch documentaries. Reality is the most mindblowing and interesting and complex thing, so if you get it, you can't be excited by simplistic human-made stories I guess. And we are far from losing our minds :)
I agree some social attitudes have changed a lot, but many have not in my view. The attitude towards work, the notion of family, the view of us as one species (which is scientifically accurate) does not seem to be a thing in this society - I see a lot more division every day. We have the same core trade-based society where the purpose of pretty much everyone is that of trade. To trade themselves or the stuff they
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It is not about "pontificating" about atoms, galaxies, and what-not, is about how these fundamental truths that were only discovered recently seem to have no impact on the vast majority of people. And that is very strange.
I am lucky to be around people who are excited about these real things so we often talk about these, we go with the telescope and watch some planets, or look at things through the microscope, etc.. I cannot even watch movies anymore, I watch documentaries. Reality is the most mindblowing and interesting and complex thing, so if you get it, you can't be excited by simplistic human-made stories I guess. And we are far from losing our minds :)
I agree some social attitudes have changed a lot, but many have not in my view. The attitude towards work, the notion of family, the view of us as one species (which is scientifically accurate) does not seem to be a thing in this society - I see a lot more division every day. We have the same core trade-based society where the purpose of pretty much everyone is that of trade. To trade themselves or the stuff they have, for something else. The attitude towards consumerism has become more insane, and so forth.
I also agree that anyone should live their lives as they wish to, I am just observing some facts: how for the past hundreds of years mindblowing things have been discovered about reality, and this had almost 0 impact on the day to day life of people. Imagine if we proved we live in a computer simulation and all scientists agree and we can verify. But yet most people would be like "Yeah, cool..." and move on with their simulated life. Wouldn't that be bizarre?
We seem hard wired to be very interested in judging each other, and no amount of cosmic mystiwisdom seems able to change that.
I disagree that we are hard wired for anything really. We become whatever the environment pushes us to be. Even the way we walk or talk is created by the environment we are raised into. And we can change, never forget that.
Well I do agree that we aren't hardwired for anything very much. In large part, I think, we are society; we are our own environment. Yet there are behaviours like family bonds which, if not truly constant, don't seem to vary nearly as strongly. Hence I interpret some attitudes and behaviours, at least, to be hard-wired, maybe not fully so but much more than others.
I'm fascinated by how other cultures have interpreted reality in very different ways. The modern scientific world view is really very recent indeed and nowhere near complete, or even wholly accurate. I would agree that this hasn't really changed any of the basics like the need for family, trade, socialising, but on the other hand, why would it ? The big ideas don't filter down to that level much except as nth-order effects. There is a deep-seated need to talk to other people, to have friends, to have material goods... whether reality is the atomic waste of stellar explosions or we're actually all living inside the eye of a giant duck wouldn't make any difference to that. In a way, all co
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Well I do agree that we aren't hardwired for anything very much. In large part, I think, we are society; we are our own environment. Yet there are behaviours like family bonds which, if not truly constant, don't seem to vary nearly as strongly. Hence I interpret some attitudes and behaviours, at least, to be hard-wired, maybe not fully so but much more than others.
I'm fascinated by how other cultures have interpreted reality in very different ways. The modern scientific world view is really very recent indeed and nowhere near complete, or even wholly accurate. I would agree that this hasn't really changed any of the basics like the need for family, trade, socialising, but on the other hand, why would it ? The big ideas don't filter down to that level much except as nth-order effects. There is a deep-seated need to talk to other people, to have friends, to have material goods... whether reality is the atomic waste of stellar explosions or we're actually all living inside the eye of a giant duck wouldn't make any difference to that. In a way, all conceptions of reality are equally astonishing (Pratchett, as often, said it best).
On the other hand... nobody goes to the local Wise Woman for medicine anymore (well, with some unfortunate exceptions...), or sacrifices a bull to bring the rain. Some basics haven't varied much but differences of detail are huge. The things that don't vary, I think, are the fundamental "plumbing" and likely will never alter very much at all.
And the thing is, discoveries filter through slowly. We have time to adapt; there isn't much "shock value" in most findings. Even when there is, what seemed revolutionary yesterday becomes normal very quickly indeed. We are extremely flexible. Possibly there's a state of maximum excitation beyond which things are so radically different that they just can't be understood at all, but below which pretty nearly everything becomes normal.
I suppose it might be "scary" in the sense that maybe we aren't as humbled as we should be. On the other hand, being in a state of permanent astonishment and surprise would be debilitating. Flexibility has its advantages.
I looked a lot into this hard-wiring "theory" of behavior and I could never find anything of significance especially since humans can always change. So the outside pressures are always the ones capable of changing the behavior.
I would agree that this hasn't really changed any of the basics like the need for family, trade, socialising, but on the other hand, why would it ?
Well take climate change. It is a huge issue. All scientists agree about that basically. But not much is being done because something else overwrites it: the pressures in this trade based society to seek for profit.
In the same way people are more incentivized and made to watch some silly netflix series than say documentaries (due to ads for example), or find it easier to have chit-chats about nothing things than more interesting conversations because most people are tired due to work. And so on. The notion of a family is quite stagnant and promoted by the same media that everyone consumes.
Most boils down to this trade-based society where people are incentivized to prom
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I looked a lot into this hard-wiring "theory" of behavior and I could never find anything of significance especially since humans can always change. So the outside pressures are always the ones capable of changing the behavior.
I would agree that this hasn't really changed any of the basics like the need for family, trade, socialising, but on the other hand, why would it ?
Well take climate change. It is a huge issue. All scientists agree about that basically. But not much is being done because something else overwrites it: the pressures in this trade based society to seek for profit.
In the same way people are more incentivized and made to watch some silly netflix series than say documentaries (due to ads for example), or find it easier to have chit-chats about nothing things than more interesting conversations because most people are tired due to work. And so on. The notion of a family is quite stagnant and promoted by the same media that everyone consumes.
Most boils down to this trade-based society where people are incentivized to promote and consume whatever sells best, where most people are busy and consumers, where reality is not really sold/advertised in any way, and so on.
Why would notions like the family, or the idea of work, and so forth be changed by whatever we discovered so far? Because what we discovered shows us we are one species on one planet, and same as with the climate change we should change the way we do things on this planet because we are not doing so well. And where there is no issue that is uncovered by this reality, like climate change, then the view of yourself in this universe should change if you find something new about reality, no?
There is a deep-seated need to talk to other people, to have friends, to have material goods... whether reality is the atomic waste of stellar explosions or we're actually all living inside the eye of a giant duck wouldn't make any difference to that.
It is so strange to think this way. Are you saying that if tomorrow we discover that all is a computer simulation, and everyone agrees, wouldn't it be weird if people would have the same lives as before?
I do not think there is a "natural" excuse for this state of numbness about reality. Whenever I show others the Moon or other planets through my telescope they don't even have a clue what these are. And they are fascinated when I tell them. I think the information doesn't reach most people to begin with. You can't be curious if you don't even know.
We could be very different beings if we were to take reality more seriously.
Well, the notion that we live in a simulation is essentially Berkelian idealism, which has been floating around for at least a couple of centuries and arguably a lot longer (certainly everyone has wondered at some point, "what if it's all a dream ?"). We've already had plenty of time to get use to the idea, so if it was somehow thought to be actually true, nothing much would happen.
Same as discovering aliens. When we actually do detect an alien signal or some microfossils, or even actual living microbes, I predict the reaction will be... not much. We've been writing stories about it since basically forever - it isn't a revolutionary concept anymore. Shock value is extremely hard to maintain. Sure, discovery of aliens would cause a big press hoo-hah. But unless we actually get an alien spaceship landing on the proverbial White House lawn (or equivalent), it isn't going to change anything fundamental on the long term. Anything we can't actually interact with becomes an abstraction.
Climate change is also a good example. Here's the rub : what can any of us actua
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Well, the notion that we live in a simulation is essentially Berkelian idealism, which has been floating around for at least a couple of centuries and arguably a lot longer (certainly everyone has wondered at some point, "what if it's all a dream ?"). We've already had plenty of time to get use to the idea, so if it was somehow thought to be actually true, nothing much would happen.
Same as discovering aliens. When we actually do detect an alien signal or some microfossils, or even actual living microbes, I predict the reaction will be... not much. We've been writing stories about it since basically forever - it isn't a revolutionary concept anymore. Shock value is extremely hard to maintain. Sure, discovery of aliens would cause a big press hoo-hah. But unless we actually get an alien spaceship landing on the proverbial White House lawn (or equivalent), it isn't going to change anything fundamental on the long term. Anything we can't actually interact with becomes an abstraction.
Climate change is also a good example. Here's the rub : what can any of us actually do about it ? In the case of aliens or simulations, nothing. I can't see why that would make me like or dislike my friends and family any more than I do already : what bearing would it have on anything ? I'm stuck with the reality I have before me. Knowledge of what it "really" is doesn't change anything at all for me : I still experience the same pleasures and pains, so I can't see what difference it would make practically (this is not at all the same as saying I wouldn't find it hugely interesting, however !).
(In the case of climate change, this is a bit tangential, but the answer is still "not much" individually - real differences require different power generation, farming techniques, societal structures, etc. none of which any individual has any real influence over)
It's not numbness, or even indifference. It's just that these things are orthogonal. I think you're taking it for granted that knowledge of reality should fundamentally change behaviour, but I cannot really see why this should be the case. Atomic theory hasn't altered family dynamics - I think it would be extremely strange if it did !
Culture changes enormously, as I said, and I agree that this is largely due to external factors : I'm not disagreeing with you on that one significantly. I further agree that the world would be a better place if more people were more concerned about the bigger issues than the humdrum superficial stuff. It's disappointing and, yes, even a little weird that they're not. But I can't see why any sort of discovery would, or even should, change something as fundamental as the nature of friendships and families. Material concerns could and should be mitigated, but I would think the chain of thought from "what is the nature of reality ?" to "how many eggs do I need to buy today ?" is so convoluted as to make these essentially unrelated questions. Likewise, why would knowing that you're made of atoms or dreams affect whether you fancy someone or enjoy playing tennis or having a beer ? I can't see why it would.
It is one thing for fictional ideas to be around for ages, another to prove one of them is real. The example was to show how a shocking discovery should shock people.
Shock value is extremely hard to maintain.
I am talking about the initial shock value that does not seem to happen to begin with in many cases in regards to the contrast between reality and society.
Anything we can't actually interact with becomes an abstraction.
I bet is not about interaction as it is about stimulation. There are many people in awe and shock about galaxies, or cells, or biology, or maths, or other parts of reality, as they are about celebrities, movies, fantasy stories and other things they cannot touch, interact with. It is all about what you stimulate people, culturally, to be interested in.
Like climate change, there are many who react to this bad piece of "news" and are active about trying to do something about it. Where is that motivation coming from since they seem to have no impact on the course of it anyway? It comes from what
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It is one thing for fictional ideas to be around for ages, another to prove one of them is real. The example was to show how a shocking discovery should shock people.
Shock value is extremely hard to maintain.
I am talking about the initial shock value that does not seem to happen to begin with in many cases in regards to the contrast between reality and society.
Anything we can't actually interact with becomes an abstraction.
I bet is not about interaction as it is about stimulation. There are many people in awe and shock about galaxies, or cells, or biology, or maths, or other parts of reality, as they are about celebrities, movies, fantasy stories and other things they cannot touch, interact with. It is all about what you stimulate people, culturally, to be interested in.
Like climate change, there are many who react to this bad piece of "news" and are active about trying to do something about it. Where is that motivation coming from since they seem to have no impact on the course of it anyway? It comes from whatever these people have in their heads. That motivates them.
If you don't feel like doing anything about the climate issue then it is all because you may not realize the importance of it or whatever makes you think is not worth your energy. But in the end is all about what we have in our brains, and that comes form the environment (culture). And this culture/system is a lot, if not most, about consumption and stupid things, so that's what people have in their brains. Of course they cannot get too excited about galaxies or atoms, but they get a lot of excitement when Prince H marries with Princess A, or about some fictional TV show. These are advertised to them a lot.
Atomic theory hasn't altered family dynamics - I think it would be extremely strange if it did !
People used to get married with their cousins or even closer relatives not long ago. It was normal. I think even Darwin married his cousin. Now because of some cultural shits and knowing that it is a bad idea (genetically speaking) to mate with closer relatives, this notion seems disgusting for many. Discoveries, bits of reality, can change and should change the way we think about mundane things.
Knowing that we are all made out of atoms should make us rethink our culturally inherited values such as fictional borders, human behavior, man made laws, and so forth. Why? Because we are part of a greater story and we are all part of the same system. A planet, an ecosystem, dependent on nature, and so forth.
But I can't see why any sort of discovery would, or even should, change something as fundamental as the nature of friendships and families
Simply because there is no nature about these things.
Even today there are tribes where children are raised by the entire community and have no notions of parents. Or their relationships are vastly different from the rest of the "civilized" world.
Humans are like plasticine molded by their environment. It is simply that our culture/system is the same for thousands of years: trade, have jobs, mate, have kids, retire, die. Humans are busy at least 8h every day, and when they finish work/school they are so tired that at the best they can chew is simplistic and dumbed down media produced by the same system of trade (workers) trying to sell stuff. It is a self propelled idiocracy that makes people unable to know and digest the complexity of reality that science is discovering. I think that's a better explanation of this situation.
Imagine you take a fish from the sea and the fish could suddenly talk and understand you. You explain to him about the world, the planet, the water, the evolution. If they fish is not even curious, let alone shocked about what you enlighten him with, then I think we should probably consider the fish as non-intelligent, or incapable of understanding. No?
You put the fish back in the sea and he goes on about being a fish for the rest of his life. Why would anything change for him no?
To me this makes the fish look "stupid". Primitive. Incapable of grasping a greater reality.
With humans is different since we know they have the capacity to wonder about greater things that they cannot touch or even see. They are capable. So when they are not touched by mindblowing discoveries about reality, then it is a different explanation as of why that is, rather than "it is normal" or they are "incapable" of grasping. Again, looking at the system of trade, this society we live in, I think we can understand, as I explained, why they are not touched much about reality, but are very touched about all sort of things: fictional stories, movies, consumerism, etc..
Politics, a cringe show. And USA has the most popular of the shows.
Empty words, rich people, a cult of following. Nothing changes: most people have to trade their lives to survive (work), the rich are getting richer, inequality on the rise, the destruction of nature is flourishing. More idiots, more stupidity, shittier and fake lives.
Planet Trade. Welcome. Very predictable. Enjoy the show, slurp the fantasies.
Yeah, no....this is too fucking hot. You can feel a hot breeze of air outside as if the earth turned on the oven.
This is how streets look like in a small town while cloudy:
Imagine that most big cities are way worse and way hotter. Also imagine that instead of cars we had trees. It would make a massive difference. But our society is not built for humans, it is built for cars, stuff to consume, etc..
We know how to deal with the climate change, we know how to design better cities and create a paradise on earth for everyone. But there is no incentive to do so in a society where trade is the main driving force.
Friday I have the driving exam. I started in December last year...I payed1.620 Euros so far. It has been a terrible experience. You know when I tell people that this was insanity, they think that "well you have to learn how to drive...it is of course difficult." and I want to punch them in the face. I would love for them to experience what we experience here. Because this is not your normal "driving school". This is the torture school that most people fail from the first time. And it is no wonder why.
Anyway, I gathered lots of info and videos ;), and I'll make an article/video about it all. I do not think that I can pass this exam, but I know some parts of Spain where you go and likely pass it - much easier than here.
At this point I, and the rest of the students, know how to drive safer than most drivers that we see drive alongside us, since no one here uses the blinkers, no one stops at the stop signs, everyone drives over the straight lines.... So it is a matter of being lucky to pass the exam. For the examiner to be in a good mood, for the route that they choose f
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Friday I have the driving exam. I started in December last year...I payed1.620 Euros so far. It has been a terrible experience. You know when I tell people that this was insanity, they think that "well you have to learn how to drive...it is of course difficult." and I want to punch them in the face. I would love for them to experience what we experience here. Because this is not your normal "driving school". This is the torture school that most people fail from the first time. And it is no wonder why.
Anyway, I gathered lots of info and videos ;), and I'll make an article/video about it all. I do not think that I can pass this exam, but I know some parts of Spain where you go and likely pass it - much easier than here.
At this point I, and the rest of the students, know how to drive safer than most drivers that we see drive alongside us, since no one here uses the blinkers, no one stops at the stop signs, everyone drives over the straight lines.... So it is a matter of being lucky to pass the exam. For the examiner to be in a good mood, for the route that they choose for you, traffic, etc..
I know students who tried to pass the exam 4 times by now, others gave the fuck up despite having 20+ years of driving experience.
So let's see. Lucky or not lucky.
But it is so frustrating to see what the "most intelligent species in the universe" have done with their BS society. If they wanted to teach their kind to drive these boxes on wheels, they would have done it entirely differently than how they do it today. But this is not the incentive. They want to make money. Trade. And thus jobs, and thus bullshit practices and methods. And so a bullshit society of traders.
Ok, rant done haha. I have 2 more hours of practice tomorrow, then the day after I want for this to end somehow even if I fail the exam, which most likely will. I will go somewhere else to do the exam if I fail, I think that's the best approach. Enough time and money wasted here.
Oh man it is so awful you'll see when I'll make that video/article how insane it is. 0 people with a driving license would pass this exam I am 100% sure. I've seen a video with a driving instructor from somewhere else taking an exam simulation in the area where we also do, and he was also confused and would have failed haha. So yah will see tomorrow how it goes, but regardless I need a fucking break from this shit.
Watch this documentary to see how governments and companies go after buying Earth resources from other tribes, in all sorts of terrible ways. From arable land to water. In a crazy race to get enough for their own tribe because of the impacts of climate change that will devastate vast areas on this planet.
This terrible mentality of trying to survive and thrive at the expense of the rest, as if we are not living on the same planet. Same spaceship.
Very telling documentary. Some 10 years in the making.
Watch this documentary to see how governments and companies go after buying Earth resources from other tribes, in all sorts of terrible ways. From arable land to water. In a crazy race to get enough for their own tribe because of the impacts of climate change that will devastate vast areas on this planet.
This terrible mentality of trying to survive and thrive at the expense of the rest, as if we are not living on the same planet. Same spaceship.
Very telling documentary. Some 10 years in the making.
The film follows investigative journalists at The Center for Investigative Reporting as they uncover efforts by foreign actors to control food and water to the detriment of local populations.
If the "authorities" are worried that children watch too much porn and these kids then try to porn-themselves-out for pleasure, causing issues since they don't understand that most porn is fake, then for sure forcing people to verify their age when accessing some porn websites will make these kids think twice before accessing any of the millions of worldwide porn websites....
How about you make the life of kids, and people overall, more relaxing? How about you don't force the kids to go to school and parents to go to work, just to survive? Maybe if people were to be more "free" and have time to learn about the world, to have fun, to establish relationships and not worry about wtf they ar
If the "authorities" are worried that children watch too much porn and these kids then try to porn-themselves-out for pleasure, causing issues since they don't understand that most porn is fake, then for sure forcing people to verify their age when accessing some porn websites will make these kids think twice before accessing any of the millions of worldwide porn websites....
How about you make the life of kids, and people overall, more relaxing? How about you don't force the kids to go to school and parents to go to work, just to survive? Maybe if people were to be more "free" and have time to learn about the world, to have fun, to establish relationships and not worry about wtf they are going to eat tomorrow, maybe we will have saner individuals, ha?!
When the human being is busy 8 hours a day, or more, 5 days a week, or more, with mandatory tasks (school/job), in a society based on trade (consumption), then the easiest and most familiar way to get some "fun" are shallow, fast things. Fast food, fast fashion, fastly-made and dumbed-down media, fast sexual pleasure (watch some porn), and so forth. No time for anything meaningful.
The real question is will the adults accept this verification process? This just sounds like a privacy nightmare! 😐
IMO the biggest issue with porn is that it's so fake and unrealistic, and that's not in itself a problem but it becomes one if the person watching thinks it's real. I've heard somewhere that watching porn and thinking it's real sex is like is like watching martial arts on TV and thinking that's how a real fight looks like, lol 😂 Maybe the real solution here is proper sex education, something to think about..... 🤔
Only accusing the "big companies" for doing all sort of "unethical" things, is like only accusing mass murderers for the killings that they do. Every crime is a crime. Big or small. Small companies do similar shady practices and abuse people or destroy the environment.
But best is to look at the system that creates these entities instead of accusing companies or people.
As long as the underlying practice on this planet is to TRADE or else you are fucked, then this is what we are going to do and prioritize. Thus the evolution of companies and billionaires, waste, pollution, you name it.
Welcome to planet Earth. A random rock in the Universe where the most "intelligent" species only cares about trade. Trade this for that. So that the members of its species spend all of their life trading. That's all it is.
It is not about creating smarter and relaxed humans, and a nice environment for everyone. Not about exploring and learning, or enjoying. It is about trading.
EDIT: Funny that this fits so well with the latest bit we shared from TROM II - You are a disposable tool videos.trom.tf/w/rEieFEBWghVcJ… .... weird coincidence.
TROM II: A Message to the Aliens Year: 2023 / Duration: 4 parts, 5 hours We live in a world where everyone is busy, everyone is consumed, everyone seems confused. Money, social credits, ads, data collection, prices and billionaires.
Funny that this fits so well with the latest bit we shared from TROM II - You are a disposable tool videos.trom.tf/w/rEieFEBWghVcJ… .... weird coincidence.
TROM II: A Message to the Aliens Year: 2023 / Duration: 4 parts, 5 hours We live in a world where everyone is busy, everyone is consumed, everyone seems confused. Money, social credits, ads, data collection, prices and billionaires.
You want to see how kids entertainment looks like in a trade-based society? Here: Quiet on Set: The Dark Side of Kids TV videoneat.com/documentaries/26…
Kids being abused in many ways in order to make money - for themselves, for others (mostly), for advertisers, etc..
Part 5 will be released in a few days time and it will be available on VIdeoNeat.
Also, how hilarious is the notion "war crimes". As if war was not a crime in the first place. Israel killed so many innocent people... to still "wonder" if what they are doing is wrong, is wrong!
Also this:
Our place in the universe, galaxies and galaxies that we can see from our little rock. How shameful to create a society where humans are divided into little groups: nationalities, beliefs, patches of land, etc.. And to kill each other and destroy this planet....
But if we are to get ourselves out of this shit, we have to first understand why this situation was created in the first place. What forces pushed humans to end up in this disastrous situation.
Oh look if you buy a "modern" car that has a "cool-screen" and useless features, it costs you money to update that shit.
How cool. New business opportunities for the traders. Since you can't really make these boxes on wheels more useful than they already are, now they are adding more and more useless "Features". That's the incentive in a trade-based society.
those look like basemaps for the navi, which are outsourced to TomTom (who at the same time have managed to enshittify the otherwise reasonable standalone satnavs by using poor quality batteries in later models)
to be entirely fair, satnav companies have been doing this since the early 2000s at least, it's just that with modern cars the manufacturers can cut out the middle man there and just run the annual update racket themselves instead.
The far more dodgy aspect is that eg. BMW lock features like remote heating (so you can turn the heating in your car on in winter from your house so the car's warm by the time you get in) behind a literal monthly subscription
like with maps they'll be licensing the map data from someone else and passing the cost on (and of course that in itself is a Capitalism Problem), but for things like letting you turn on the heating via an app it's just pure greed
Yes indeed. This is just an example, but since the navigation is perhaps the central point of such a screen, and can be useful, it is ridiculous that you have to pay to update it. Because if you do not update, then it becomes entirely useless. All of those GPS modules, the hardware, and everything else. Pointless.
I suspect that's "for now".... but I had no clue about these. This is a car my parents bought and honestly didn't consider the GPS to be that important since you can use the phone for nav anyway. But thanks for the headsup I had no clue.
@mark I would quite like to swap out my current dinosaur burner for an FEV at some point but also even this car which is almost a decade old now has an infuriating amount of extremely locked-in technology about it and
like what are the chances that EVs don't even have DIN form factor dashboard computers anymore so you just straight up *can't* switch the manufacturer's audio/satnav system with one that isn't, as they say, a physical instantiation of a business model
@mark like on this car I could buy an aftermarket fascia and just stick a 2-DIN Android radio thing in there to have OpenStreetMap and a Subsonic client to use with my home server and connect a reversing camera that doesn't cost hundreds because the manufacturer radio will only work with the manufacturer's cameras
and somehow I highly doubt any of that is possible on a modern FEV
Welcome to Earth, where trade is the main practice that everyone is a follower of, willingly or not. Where humans care mostly, if not entirely, about trade and how to maximize their advantage.
How can we get ourselves out of this shit, unless we start by understanding what the shit is made of!?
First: understand the problem. TRADE. The fact that we've built a society where you cannot survive unless you trade this for that. Once we understand this, hopefully we can tackle it. Give people a way to have a decent life, access to at least their basic needs as trade-free, and then try to replace more and more trade-based services (like say transportation) with trade-free alternatives.
Volunteers plus trade-free goods/services can create more of them, replicating over time and replacing the cancerous trade-based practices.
Learn how to fight deforestation in paperback :) haha Some time ago there was an album of singer Jack Johnson who with it was fighting the plastic pollution. He made a nice music video collecting plastic on a beach, and was promoting especially problem on the beaches of Hawaii, of course the album was in a plastic CD format :) I pointed out that in the comments, and I believe his manager replied that if I don't want CD i can buy digital download :) But the fact that they are selling hundreds of thousands of plastic CD's haven't confused him at all :)
Yeah I am so not surprised. I wonder if these people understand the irony and choose to ignore it because they make money off of it, or simply they cannot see the connection there....
Thank God that companies are now starting to become more environmentally conscious!
100% recycled paper. Tell me that does not give you more confidence that we are going to, finally, make this world a better place.
So what that inside of it are 2 plastic bags full of chips!? I mean, they are at least trying!
I find it so hard to take this idiocracy of a society seriously. I think it is me who is in the wrong here, trying to think that this society can become sane. But perhaps I should take it for what it is: a total joke.
yes ofc....I was sarcastic. that's a lot more waste. they already put the chips in a plastic bag so there is no need to add yet another layer of paper on top of that just so that they can pretend to be "green"
haha, i thought the same when I have bought this chips in Spain :) I was actually angry at them, it feels like they tricked me, and not even 1 plastic bag, 2 of them :)
I like the focus on "the system" rather than the "AI". The "AI" is not really the problem here, the system is, where it incentivizes the use of AI for bad purposes. From big companies who want to harvest people's data and show ads to them, or sell their "AI" as a service, and thus be incentivized to make this tool for profit motives, to individuals who are using these tools to create more shitty content online in order to get more clicks, more views, more money.
In the end it is what we talked about for years now: the problem with trade. We live in a trade-based society where everyone is forced and incentivized to trade. So instead of making a tool like AI for detecting skin cancer, or creating videos more easily, and overall to help the society, people, and be useful, humans make these tools in order to trade
I like the focus on "the system" rather than the "AI". The "AI" is not really the problem here, the system is, where it incentivizes the use of AI for bad purposes. From big companies who want to harvest people's data and show ads to them, or sell their "AI" as a service, and thus be incentivized to make this tool for profit motives, to individuals who are using these tools to create more shitty content online in order to get more clicks, more views, more money.
In the end it is what we talked about for years now: the problem with trade. We live in a trade-based society where everyone is forced and incentivized to trade. So instead of making a tool like AI for detecting skin cancer, or creating videos more easily, and overall to help the society, people, and be useful, humans make these tools in order to trade them: for data, attention, or currency.
We need to talk about that! We need to talk about our society more than we need to talk about AI.
I’m sorry for the YouTube link but watch this, write down every word that comes out of @Mer__edith’s mouth, frame it, hang it on your wall, and read it every morning until it really sinks in.
In the final episode of the AI series with Maria Ressa, we meet two women on the front lines of the battle to make artificial intelligence accountable.Camill...
So ridiculous how people think that they are "free", when in fact we are all imprisoned by rules and laws, many of which are entirely harmful and primitive.
So ridiculous how people think that they are "free", when in fact we are all imprisoned by rules and laws, many of which are entirely harmful and primitive.
When nine-year-old Maya Kowalski was admitted to Johns Hopkins All Children’s Hospital in 2016, nothing could have prepared her or her family for what they were about to go through. As the medical team tried to understand her rare illness, they began to question the basic truths that bound the Kowalskis together.
@gnutelephony This is just inhumane..... There is no other way to describe it and I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Often times when people bring up issues regarding racism and such I've never seen many of them mention this one, maybe there needs to be more awareness about this issue 'cause it's an important one.
I need to divorce myself more from the society/politics/conflicts part of our world. It is insane what it has become. When Russia put hundreds of thousands of troops on Ukraine's border and were accused of preparing an invasion, they said that's entirely false. Then they invaded, then they called the war against Ukraine as a "special military operation".
They bombed hospitals and schools and residential or public spaces, killing so many innocent people...
UK, USA, and EU were "horrified" at these atrocities, while China was "on the fence" and Iran and the like were kinda cheering up for Russia and helping them.
Day by day, people dying, politicians lying. People were crying...
And now Israel drops thousan
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I need to divorce myself more from the society/politics/conflicts part of our world. It is insane what it has become. When Russia put hundreds of thousands of troops on Ukraine's border and were accused of preparing an invasion, they said that's entirely false. Then they invaded, then they called the war against Ukraine as a "special military operation".
They bombed hospitals and schools and residential or public spaces, killing so many innocent people...
UK, USA, and EU were "horrified" at these atrocities, while China was "on the fence" and Iran and the like were kinda cheering up for Russia and helping them.
Day by day, people dying, politicians lying. People were crying...
And now Israel drops thousands of bombs on Gaza, killing again so many innocent people. Creating a total disaster.
So much suffering, just like in Ukraine. And yet USA, UK and EU are cheering up for Israel.
Even helping them...
Suddenly there is no more genocide....
Israel says they only kill the bad people, despite the videos and photos showing the contrary. They say they are saints and are fighting against evil, because you see Hamas killed over a thousand innocent Israeli people and that's EVIL, so they must go and kill thousands more innocent people....because that's GOOD!
Not to mention what Israel has done to palestinians over the past decades....trapping them in an open prison basically...
Then Russia is like: Oh my god, this is genocide! Unbelievable! To drop bombs on hospitals and kill entire families. This is terrible!
And China speaking up against what Israel is doing, more than what Russia is doing. And Iran talking about "human rights"....
And Ukraine not putting any blame on Israel for doing what Russia is doing to them....
Add to the mix the Hamas and other groups that create a lot of misery and terror, and the values of the so called "Arab countries" that are full of shit, and the primitivism of religion overall.
Ukraine is also not an angel, or any other tribe for that matter. Politicians are lying, propaganda is a daily news, and people continue to suffer while at the same time we have problems like cancer killing so many people, tuberculosis that is treatable killing the poor by the millions; diseases, climate change, pollution....
But the thing is, many of these situations are still a result of our trade-based society. The destruction of our environment, enslaving people, making humans into consumers, and so on, are a result of this society.
But even when it comes to wars they are a result of boiling trade-interests on a high flame. Where politicians say all sorts of stupid things, create propaganda through social (ad) networks that also rely on trades, promoting nationalism and patriotism to get more votes, to then have these politicians rule over others, and have luxurious cars, do all sort of businesses, and gain more power.
In other words do you think the "head of states" really care about their tribe when they are almost always caught avoiding taxes, doing shady businesses, and stealing form their tribe?
They care about them and their families, but then they start to promote "patriotism" and "us the tribe" stupidity, to gain votes to be elected as "heads of states". And they use these platforms that care mostly about you paying them to promote your posts. The cycle of vomit.
The thirst for power comes mainly from humans being trained to trade to acquire, because the more you have the more power you have, and vice versa.
And then starting wars is part of the power thirst and the need to get more "support" from the "nationals".
A mix of rich people who lie and have power over others, and the others who are confused patriots, busy workers, and idiotic consumers. Going at war is easy.
And these things are not new at all. For thousands of years these things have existed. From the Roman empire to the Iraq war....
Conclusion.
This is a totally insane society, full of lies and idiots. A horror carnival. And I think the sanest way for me is to force myself to ignore this side of our society. Ignore everything that any politician says (I already do this anyway), ignore these conflicts that I cannot do a thing about and are wrapped in propaganda and misery; ignore this society and focus more on the natural world.
I want to try and do astrophotography to reveal what my eyes can't see. To go more in nature, to grow TROM and its many positive projects, to live a less stressed life, because the society is too retarded and chaotic to even make sense of it, let alone do anything about it.
Very good point Tio, and great artworks! Yeah, that's exactly my thoughts, like wtf, they bomb civilians in Gaza like crazy, and it's ok for EU and US, they even help doing this. And people opinions are divided, some are for Palestine others for Israel when in fact all of them committing brutal crimes and one side is no better than the other. Of course Gaza it is like an open prison for many many years already, which is also very cruel and inhumane. I was also quite sadden to see the reaction of EU... But that's politics. Good point, not to trust or even take seriously any politician, it's all corrupted and fake. They twist everything as its more beneficial for them.
You just pretty much summed it up in this blog post, politics is full of lies and propaganda man..... Every now and then I see these images of the atrocities caused by wars, on the internet, newspaper, etc..... be it in Ukraine, Palestine, Israel, etc.... Does it really matter which place is getting hit? Innocent people are getting hurt, and many die because of these wars..... This is very sad and awful...... 😔
Well....Youtube labels itself as a video platform instead of an ad platform or video-ad platform, or something similar. So yeah...people may get confused when Youtube act like an ad company. But they are.
Same way that facebook is not a social network, is an ad network.
Did you ever realize that the most popular browser in the entire world, is made and controlled by an ad company? And the most popular search engine....Same goes for the most popular "social networks". And mobile operating system....
Insane....
And now Google, who has the power to change the internet for the worse, is trying to do something that I had anticipated many years ago. You see, we think that we fooled these companies by using adblockers, or some interfaces like invidious and the like, but the truth is that we could do that because they allowed us to. As soon as these will threaten their existence they can throw massive amounts of money at it and make it difficult if not impossible to bypass these.
Example: since Google owns the search, the mobile operating system, maps, the most popular video platform and so on, AND they own the most popular browser in the world, they are trying to introduce some technical things into the browser and some of their websites to block the adblockers and more.
Basically if you visit Youtube.com via Chrome, then Youtube
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Did you ever realize that the most popular browser in the entire world, is made and controlled by an ad company? And the most popular search engine....Same goes for the most popular "social networks". And mobile operating system....
Insane....
And now Google, who has the power to change the internet for the worse, is trying to do something that I had anticipated many years ago. You see, we think that we fooled these companies by using adblockers, or some interfaces like invidious and the like, but the truth is that we could do that because they allowed us to. As soon as these will threaten their existence they can throw massive amounts of money at it and make it difficult if not impossible to bypass these.
Example: since Google owns the search, the mobile operating system, maps, the most popular video platform and so on, AND they own the most popular browser in the world, they are trying to introduce some technical things into the browser and some of their websites to block the adblockers and more.
Basically if you visit Youtube.com via Chrome, then Youtube first asks Chrome about you. Like...are you using an adblocker? If Chrome says yes, then Youtube can refuse you. Therefore you cannot visit Youtube.com unless you do what Youtube says you should do. In this case deactivating your adblocker.
Users like visiting websites that are expensive to create and maintain, but they often want or need to do it without paying directly. These websites fund themselves with ads, but the advertisers can only afford to pay for humans to see the ads, rather than robots. This creates a need for human users to prove to websites that they're human, sometimes through tasks like challenges or logins.
And this is their first point in their explanation. Of course they will fight for this. It will get harder and harder, if not impossible to block ads and trackers.
This is easily predictable when you understand that the main goal of humans on this planet is to trade. This for that. An evolution that results in big companies doing this sort of shit, even when they have more than enough.
I have been screaming about this for more than a decade. But most people do not listen. Do not want to talk about this. They make it look complicated (ad-based economics, surveillance capitalism, blah blah blah). In truth it is the same practice and incentive for Google as it is for the guy who owns a small grocery store. Stop thinking that this is an issue with big companies and billionaires. It is not. We are all, or most of us, scammers, charlatans, tricksters. On small or big levels.
What can we do about it?
First understand it. Understand why these things happen, because if you do not at best you can make some politicians approve some laws to try and stop these big players. And this does not work. We made a big book and a huge documentary all about this.
Second, try to use trade-free alternative platforms. See trom.tf/ - the ones that we offer. Or visit the Trade-Free Directory and search for some directory.trade-free.org/
We need to understand where the problem originates (trade) and inform people about it, but also try to use alternative platforms and software, so we don't depend on this motherfuckers.
I agree. Unfortunately there aren't many alternatives. I use Firefox for many years now, but except that, what are other options that are not Chromium dependent or dependent on Firefox who receives a lot of money from Google?
Opera is a multi-platform web browser developed by its namesake company Opera.[11][12][13] The browser is based on Chromium, but distinguishes itself from other Chromium-based browsers (Chrome, Edge, etc.) through its user interface and other features.
@rotfarm my knowledge about this is very limited, but from what I understand Google is proposing a method for web developers to verify the integrity of users who visit their websites, so if this proposal becomes a success and people started implementing this verification on their websites then you won't be able to access those sites from firefox, unless firefox also implemented this thing in their browser.
I really hope I'm wrong here and that it won't affect firefox users.....
@aral @rotfarm Maybe organizations like EFF would fight against this, that's my only hope now. If you actually think about it what Google is doing here is also anticompetitive in nature, other web browsers should be given the choice to not implement their design, but how can that be with a verification system like this being put on websites we visit.
@rotfarm Where “a lot of” = ~half a billion dollars every year = if Google stopped paying them tomorrow, they’d be bankrupt the next day = totally dependent on Google for their existence.
@aral so an important question here that needs to be asked......if there is an absance of alternatives, why aren't people making them? Is it defeatism? No profit? This doesn't seem to stop most FOSS projects from being made, so why not make a web browser?
@rotfarm A web browser is a huge undertaking. No reason why the EU couldn’t fund an independent organisation to make one, though. (Apart from lack of political will and a myopic insistence on framing everything through the lens of “The Single Market.”)
Our Teddit instance, like all others, is starting to feel the effect of the Reddit API limitation. It mostly does not work. Our Nitter now works, which is really cool. And Invidious was removed but I may bring it back on another server separate from trom.tf to not impact the IP. I'll wait to see if they find a fix for it, then I'll try it out.
Reddit, Twitter, Youtube....these ad-platforms that do not like when the content created by their users, not themselves, is accessed for free.
Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •@Tio
I sometimes think of death as an external sleep and it makes it seem less frightening, except the pain of death and health issues ofc - those are still scary.
As for humans not changing in any fundamental ways over many centuries it doesn't feel that surprising to me - isn't this the case for most creatures on earth? 🤔 But yeah I do still wish for some things to change, things like wars and environmental destruction, or the fact that humans are still forced to be like working ants - that sucks because it takes away their precious time.
If you think about it the universe also feels stagnant sometimes, the moon rotates around the earth and the earth rotates around the sun - it has been like that for millions of years. I've heard that the Andromeda galaxy will one day collapse with the Milkyway to create a new galaxy, but the time it takes for that to happen is so long that my lifespan feels insignificant in comparison. Hell most of us don't even notice the
... show more@Tio
I sometimes think of death as an external sleep and it makes it seem less frightening, except the pain of death and health issues ofc - those are still scary.
As for humans not changing in any fundamental ways over many centuries it doesn't feel that surprising to me - isn't this the case for most creatures on earth? 🤔 But yeah I do still wish for some things to change, things like wars and environmental destruction, or the fact that humans are still forced to be like working ants - that sucks because it takes away their precious time.
If you think about it the universe also feels stagnant sometimes, the moon rotates around the earth and the earth rotates around the sun - it has been like that for millions of years. I've heard that the Andromeda galaxy will one day collapse with the Milkyway to create a new galaxy, but the time it takes for that to happen is so long that my lifespan feels insignificant in comparison. Hell most of us don't even notice the trees growing around us because it happens very slowly lol 😄 But the one thing that has had significant changes is our understanding of the universe, we sent humans to space, rovers to mars, etc so that we could study it. We made a giant foldable telescope and sent it into space just so we could see distant galaxies more clearly! 🤓 Hell we photographed a black hole! 😃 So in the end it is still about humanity, the leaps and bounces we make in trying to understand the universe 🙂
Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •Well doesnt scare you the thought that you will never wake up or dream? :D - To me this realization that I will disappear forever is really frightening.
No because I am talking culturally/mentally change. No other creature can imagine like humans do. And to find out that you are made up of cells, or atoms, or are other solar systems out there, but not change in any fundamental way how you see your image, is weird to me.
Those missions are not just "humans exploring out of curiosity" - there are many people involved who just "do their job" as an engineer, scientist, etc.. I remember seeing videos from ISS with "scientists" wearing a cross, and being so "christians"....to me that's so weird. Also celebrating the SuperBall and I bet many watch Netflix in space.
My point is that if we were to discover that inside our skulls there is a green little man pushing buttons....and we have phot
... show moreWell doesnt scare you the thought that you will never wake up or dream? :D - To me this realization that I will disappear forever is really frightening.
No because I am talking culturally/mentally change. No other creature can imagine like humans do. And to find out that you are made up of cells, or atoms, or are other solar systems out there, but not change in any fundamental way how you see your image, is weird to me.
Those missions are not just "humans exploring out of curiosity" - there are many people involved who just "do their job" as an engineer, scientist, etc.. I remember seeing videos from ISS with "scientists" wearing a cross, and being so "christians"....to me that's so weird. Also celebrating the SuperBall and I bet many watch Netflix in space.
My point is that if we were to discover that inside our skulls there is a green little man pushing buttons....and we have photos of that, and so on, but you tell to people about it and they are like "hm, ok, yah" and move on with their life....this is WEIRD :D
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Rokosun
in reply to Tio • • •@Tio
Yeah it is kinda scary to think that you'll never be able to experience the world again, but once you're dead you're also not conscious anymore and without that you cannot miss what you had before. But yeah ofc it's normal to be scared of death, we all are to some extent.
... show moreI think the discovery of these things actually did have an impact on our culture, but perhaps not as pronounced as it should've been. I remember the first time I learned about atoms as a kid, that was a mind blowing experi
@Tio
Yeah it is kinda scary to think that you'll never be able to experience the world again, but once you're dead you're also not conscious anymore and without that you cannot miss what you had before. But yeah ofc it's normal to be scared of death, we all are to some extent.
I think the discovery of these things actually did have an impact on our culture, but perhaps not as pronounced as it should've been. I remember the first time I learned about atoms as a kid, that was a mind blowing experience for me! And I remember discussing about these ideas with a friend who was also blown away by these things. The crazy thing is that it almost feels like science fiction, and I know people have theorized about this idea centuries ago that maybe all matter was made out of some fundamental particles - those were just theories back then, until we discovered through science that it was actually real! Over time I got used to the idea of atoms and it doesn't excite me anymore like when I was a kid first discovering it, but this is pretty normal - it keeps me wanting to learn new things so that I could feel like that kid again 🙂
Religion and science is a weird mix for sure, but I don't know maybe it works in this weird ant worker society we got going lol 😄 Stuff like SuperBall and Netflix could be argued as a waste of time (if someone's spending too much time on it), but at least these are not fundamental beliefs like religion and likewise not as harmful.
Oh yeah I get what you mean, I don't understand people who don't have any curiosity man 😅 It is sad to see people being apathetic to these things. Sometimes when I learn about something really cool and wanna share it with others I have no one around me who could understand it or share that excitement with me, sometimes when there is someone they'll be too busy to have the time for it - experiences like that does make me feel alone sometimes.
Tio
in reply to Rokosun • •The missing part is for the alive ones :P like us. So ofc it is frighting to think about it.
I do not see that impact. People's lives are the same as they were hundreds or thousands of years ago: work, consume, get married, have kids, gossip, and all that. These discoveries didn't even make us feel like one species. We are still divided into tribes.
Yeah exactly....as I was saying since people are so busy to trade mostly. It sucks and it destroys curiosity. It really sucks.
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Rhysy
in reply to Tio • • •Mmm, depends what you mean by "core of our global society" I guess.
Most people are always going to want to concentrate on things of immediate relevance. I mean, yes, cells and galaxies are wonderful and all, but how does that change anything you can do in your day to day life ? For most people, unless you're a doctor or an astronomer, it doesn't.
On the other hand... a lot less people are involved in manual labour today than they were even 40 years ago, let alone 400. How many people even earned a living from website design 40 years ago ? In some ways the changes have been profound even at the practical level, let alone the subtler realm of world views (which have changed beyond recognition).
In Stephen Baxter's novels he refers to all the accessories needed for manned spaceflight collectively as plumbing : we need to bring along a hell of a lot of stuff just to keep us going. Likewise, what have we learned that prevents the need for sex, trade and beer (not necessarily in that order) ? Nothing, really. We still need to do all that stuff. It's
... show moreMmm, depends what you mean by "core of our global society" I guess.
Most people are always going to want to concentrate on things of immediate relevance. I mean, yes, cells and galaxies are wonderful and all, but how does that change anything you can do in your day to day life ? For most people, unless you're a doctor or an astronomer, it doesn't.
On the other hand... a lot less people are involved in manual labour today than they were even 40 years ago, let alone 400. How many people even earned a living from website design 40 years ago ? In some ways the changes have been profound even at the practical level, let alone the subtler realm of world views (which have changed beyond recognition).
In Stephen Baxter's novels he refers to all the accessories needed for manned spaceflight collectively as plumbing : we need to bring along a hell of a lot of stuff just to keep us going. Likewise, what have we learned that prevents the need for sex, trade and beer (not necessarily in that order) ? Nothing, really. We still need to do all that stuff. It's just that now our conversations are about different things and proceed from different assumptions. The shift is subtler than changing our gross behaviours - except where technology or other developments make this unavoidable - but no less powerful for that. You don't find people worrying about miasma anymore, but actually disinfecting things properly.
The other factor is that frequent consideration of our place in the Universe on scales both large and small is likely a quick route to insanity. :)
Tio
in reply to Rhysy • •Probably "immediate relevance" means whatever they are made to focus on in this society: iphones, gadgets, stupid tv shows, events, consume, drama, etc.. Cells and galaxies and the rest are something one can use to change the way they see themselves and others. Like we are all humans, all connected, no need for artificial separations like borders, nationalities, color of the skin, etc.. These are also wonderful discussion topics and may make people buy a telescope/microscope rather than a new phone. There are many implications resulting from such a scientific mind set.
... show moreProbably "immediate relevance" means whatever they are made to focus on in this society: iphones, gadgets, stupid tv shows, events, consume, drama, etc.. Cells and galaxies and the rest are something one can use to change the way they see themselves and others. Like we are all humans, all connected, no need for artificial separations like borders, nationalities, color of the skin, etc.. These are also wonderful discussion topics and may make people buy a telescope/microscope rather than a new phone. There are many implications resulting from such a scientific mind set.
This has nothing to do with the way people are. A webdesigner today and a house constructor from 600 years ago have a lot in common. Probably both want to get married, have kids, want to buy stuff, trade, not curious about the scientific world, etc..
Rhysy
in reply to Tio • • •Yes, but most scientists also want to buy stuff, get married, etc. We don't spend the whole time pontificating on the nature of reality because, as I said, it would drive us mad.
I think the general mindset of the modern world has changed, substantially, from where it was centuries ago. Social attitudes have changed radically from where they were even a few decades ago : compare the role of women in the workplace in the 1950s, or how homosexuals were treated in the 1980s. There isn't full equality yet, but good lord there's been a colossal shift in that direction (interestingly of course, if you go back further through history, you often find shifts in both positive as well as negative directions compared to the modern era, e.g. homosexuality in ancient Greece).
Yes, lots of people use gadgets and whatnot for watching stupid TV shows and the like. But they also use them for watching educational stuff.
I dunno, I just think there's no one right way to live one's life. I'm an astronomer, but I'd no more want to force astronomy on those unwilling to do it t
... show moreYes, but most scientists also want to buy stuff, get married, etc. We don't spend the whole time pontificating on the nature of reality because, as I said, it would drive us mad.
I think the general mindset of the modern world has changed, substantially, from where it was centuries ago. Social attitudes have changed radically from where they were even a few decades ago : compare the role of women in the workplace in the 1950s, or how homosexuals were treated in the 1980s. There isn't full equality yet, but good lord there's been a colossal shift in that direction (interestingly of course, if you go back further through history, you often find shifts in both positive as well as negative directions compared to the modern era, e.g. homosexuality in ancient Greece).
Yes, lots of people use gadgets and whatnot for watching stupid TV shows and the like. But they also use them for watching educational stuff.
I dunno, I just think there's no one right way to live one's life. I'm an astronomer, but I'd no more want to force astronomy on those unwilling to do it than I'd appreciate being forced to, say, play basketball. I honestly haven't got a clue what people get out of playing sports but if that's what they like, so be it.
I do wish we could stop the utterly vacuous stuff though : Keeping Up With the Kardaashians, endless celebrity gossip and the like. But I'm not sure it's possible. We seem hard wired to be very interested in judging each other, and no amount of cosmic mystiwisdom seems able to change that.
Tio
in reply to Rhysy • •It is not about "pontificating" about atoms, galaxies, and what-not, is about how these fundamental truths that were only discovered recently seem to have no impact on the vast majority of people. And that is very strange.
I am lucky to be around people who are excited about these real things so we often talk about these, we go with the telescope and watch some planets, or look at things through the microscope, etc.. I cannot even watch movies anymore, I watch documentaries. Reality is the most mindblowing and interesting and complex thing, so if you get it, you can't be excited by simplistic human-made stories I guess. And we are far from losing our minds :)
I agree some social attitudes have changed a lot, but many have not in my view. The attitude towards work, the notion of family, the view of us as one species (which is scientifically accurate) does not seem to be a thing in this society - I see a lot more division every day. We have the same core trade-based society where the purpose of pretty much everyone is that of trade. To trade themselves or the stuff they
... show moreIt is not about "pontificating" about atoms, galaxies, and what-not, is about how these fundamental truths that were only discovered recently seem to have no impact on the vast majority of people. And that is very strange.
I am lucky to be around people who are excited about these real things so we often talk about these, we go with the telescope and watch some planets, or look at things through the microscope, etc.. I cannot even watch movies anymore, I watch documentaries. Reality is the most mindblowing and interesting and complex thing, so if you get it, you can't be excited by simplistic human-made stories I guess. And we are far from losing our minds :)
I agree some social attitudes have changed a lot, but many have not in my view. The attitude towards work, the notion of family, the view of us as one species (which is scientifically accurate) does not seem to be a thing in this society - I see a lot more division every day. We have the same core trade-based society where the purpose of pretty much everyone is that of trade. To trade themselves or the stuff they have, for something else. The attitude towards consumerism has become more insane, and so forth.
I also agree that anyone should live their lives as they wish to, I am just observing some facts: how for the past hundreds of years mindblowing things have been discovered about reality, and this had almost 0 impact on the day to day life of people. Imagine if we proved we live in a computer simulation and all scientists agree and we can verify. But yet most people would be like "Yeah, cool..." and move on with their simulated life. Wouldn't that be bizarre?
I disagree that we are hard wired for anything really. We become whatever the environment pushes us to be. Even the way we walk or talk is created by the environment we are raised into. And we can change, never forget that.
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Rhysy
in reply to Tio • • •Well I do agree that we aren't hardwired for anything very much. In large part, I think, we are society; we are our own environment. Yet there are behaviours like family bonds which, if not truly constant, don't seem to vary nearly as strongly. Hence I interpret some attitudes and behaviours, at least, to be hard-wired, maybe not fully so but much more than others.
I'm fascinated by how other cultures have interpreted reality in very different ways. The modern scientific world view is really very recent indeed and nowhere near complete, or even wholly accurate. I would agree that this hasn't really changed any of the basics like the need for family, trade, socialising, but on the other hand, why would it ? The big ideas don't filter down to that level much except as nth-order effects. There is a deep-seated need to talk to other people, to have friends, to have material goods... whether reality is the atomic waste of stellar explosions or we're actually all living inside the eye of a giant duck wouldn't make any difference to that. In a way, all co
... show moreWell I do agree that we aren't hardwired for anything very much. In large part, I think, we are society; we are our own environment. Yet there are behaviours like family bonds which, if not truly constant, don't seem to vary nearly as strongly. Hence I interpret some attitudes and behaviours, at least, to be hard-wired, maybe not fully so but much more than others.
I'm fascinated by how other cultures have interpreted reality in very different ways. The modern scientific world view is really very recent indeed and nowhere near complete, or even wholly accurate. I would agree that this hasn't really changed any of the basics like the need for family, trade, socialising, but on the other hand, why would it ? The big ideas don't filter down to that level much except as nth-order effects. There is a deep-seated need to talk to other people, to have friends, to have material goods... whether reality is the atomic waste of stellar explosions or we're actually all living inside the eye of a giant duck wouldn't make any difference to that. In a way, all conceptions of reality are equally astonishing (Pratchett, as often, said it best).
On the other hand... nobody goes to the local Wise Woman for medicine anymore (well, with some unfortunate exceptions...), or sacrifices a bull to bring the rain. Some basics haven't varied much but differences of detail are huge. The things that don't vary, I think, are the fundamental "plumbing" and likely will never alter very much at all.
And the thing is, discoveries filter through slowly. We have time to adapt; there isn't much "shock value" in most findings. Even when there is, what seemed revolutionary yesterday becomes normal very quickly indeed. We are extremely flexible. Possibly there's a state of maximum excitation beyond which things are so radically different that they just can't be understood at all, but below which pretty nearly everything becomes normal.
I suppose it might be "scary" in the sense that maybe we aren't as humbled as we should be. On the other hand, being in a state of permanent astonishment and surprise would be debilitating. Flexibility has its advantages.
Tio
in reply to Rhysy • •I looked a lot into this hard-wiring "theory" of behavior and I could never find anything of significance especially since humans can always change. So the outside pressures are always the ones capable of changing the behavior.
Well take climate change. It is a huge issue. All scientists agree about that basically. But not much is being done because something else overwrites it: the pressures in this trade based society to seek for profit.
In the same way people are more incentivized and made to watch some silly netflix series than say documentaries (due to ads for example), or find it easier to have chit-chats about nothing things than more interesting conversations because most people are tired due to work. And so on. The notion of a family is quite stagnant and promoted by the same media that everyone consumes.
Most boils down to this trade-based society where people are incentivized to prom
... show moreI looked a lot into this hard-wiring "theory" of behavior and I could never find anything of significance especially since humans can always change. So the outside pressures are always the ones capable of changing the behavior.
Well take climate change. It is a huge issue. All scientists agree about that basically. But not much is being done because something else overwrites it: the pressures in this trade based society to seek for profit.
In the same way people are more incentivized and made to watch some silly netflix series than say documentaries (due to ads for example), or find it easier to have chit-chats about nothing things than more interesting conversations because most people are tired due to work. And so on. The notion of a family is quite stagnant and promoted by the same media that everyone consumes.
Most boils down to this trade-based society where people are incentivized to promote and consume whatever sells best, where most people are busy and consumers, where reality is not really sold/advertised in any way, and so on.
Why would notions like the family, or the idea of work, and so forth be changed by whatever we discovered so far? Because what we discovered shows us we are one species on one planet, and same as with the climate change we should change the way we do things on this planet because we are not doing so well. And where there is no issue that is uncovered by this reality, like climate change, then the view of yourself in this universe should change if you find something new about reality, no?
It is so strange to think this way. Are you saying that if tomorrow we discover that all is a computer simulation, and everyone agrees, wouldn't it be weird if people would have the same lives as before?
I do not think there is a "natural" excuse for this state of numbness about reality. Whenever I show others the Moon or other planets through my telescope they don't even have a clue what these are. And they are fascinated when I tell them. I think the information doesn't reach most people to begin with. You can't be curious if you don't even know.
We could be very different beings if we were to take reality more seriously.
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Rhysy
in reply to Tio • • •Well, the notion that we live in a simulation is essentially Berkelian idealism, which has been floating around for at least a couple of centuries and arguably a lot longer (certainly everyone has wondered at some point, "what if it's all a dream ?"). We've already had plenty of time to get use to the idea, so if it was somehow thought to be actually true, nothing much would happen.
Same as discovering aliens. When we actually do detect an alien signal or some microfossils, or even actual living microbes, I predict the reaction will be... not much. We've been writing stories about it since basically forever - it isn't a revolutionary concept anymore. Shock value is extremely hard to maintain. Sure, discovery of aliens would cause a big press hoo-hah. But unless we actually get an alien spaceship landing on the proverbial White House lawn (or equivalent), it isn't going to change anything fundamental on the long term. Anything we can't actually interact with becomes an abstraction.
Climate change is also a good example. Here's the rub : what can any of us actua
... show moreWell, the notion that we live in a simulation is essentially Berkelian idealism, which has been floating around for at least a couple of centuries and arguably a lot longer (certainly everyone has wondered at some point, "what if it's all a dream ?"). We've already had plenty of time to get use to the idea, so if it was somehow thought to be actually true, nothing much would happen.
Same as discovering aliens. When we actually do detect an alien signal or some microfossils, or even actual living microbes, I predict the reaction will be... not much. We've been writing stories about it since basically forever - it isn't a revolutionary concept anymore. Shock value is extremely hard to maintain. Sure, discovery of aliens would cause a big press hoo-hah. But unless we actually get an alien spaceship landing on the proverbial White House lawn (or equivalent), it isn't going to change anything fundamental on the long term. Anything we can't actually interact with becomes an abstraction.
Climate change is also a good example. Here's the rub : what can any of us actually do about it ? In the case of aliens or simulations, nothing. I can't see why that would make me like or dislike my friends and family any more than I do already : what bearing would it have on anything ? I'm stuck with the reality I have before me. Knowledge of what it "really" is doesn't change anything at all for me : I still experience the same pleasures and pains, so I can't see what difference it would make practically (this is not at all the same as saying I wouldn't find it hugely interesting, however !).
(In the case of climate change, this is a bit tangential, but the answer is still "not much" individually - real differences require different power generation, farming techniques, societal structures, etc. none of which any individual has any real influence over)
It's not numbness, or even indifference. It's just that these things are orthogonal. I think you're taking it for granted that knowledge of reality should fundamentally change behaviour, but I cannot really see why this should be the case. Atomic theory hasn't altered family dynamics - I think it would be extremely strange if it did !
Culture changes enormously, as I said, and I agree that this is largely due to external factors : I'm not disagreeing with you on that one significantly. I further agree that the world would be a better place if more people were more concerned about the bigger issues than the humdrum superficial stuff. It's disappointing and, yes, even a little weird that they're not. But I can't see why any sort of discovery would, or even should, change something as fundamental as the nature of friendships and families. Material concerns could and should be mitigated, but I would think the chain of thought from "what is the nature of reality ?" to "how many eggs do I need to buy today ?" is so convoluted as to make these essentially unrelated questions. Likewise, why would knowing that you're made of atoms or dreams affect whether you fancy someone or enjoy playing tennis or having a beer ? I can't see why it would.
Tio
in reply to Rhysy • •It is one thing for fictional ideas to be around for ages, another to prove one of them is real. The example was to show how a shocking discovery should shock people.
I am talking about the initial shock value that does not seem to happen to begin with in many cases in regards to the contrast between reality and society.
I bet is not about interaction as it is about stimulation. There are many people in awe and shock about galaxies, or cells, or biology, or maths, or other parts of reality, as they are about celebrities, movies, fantasy stories and other things they cannot touch, interact with. It is all about what you stimulate people, culturally, to be interested in.
Like climate change, there are many who react to this bad piece of "news" and are active about trying to do something about it. Where is that motivation coming from since they seem to have no impact on the course of it anyway? It comes from what
... show moreIt is one thing for fictional ideas to be around for ages, another to prove one of them is real. The example was to show how a shocking discovery should shock people.
I am talking about the initial shock value that does not seem to happen to begin with in many cases in regards to the contrast between reality and society.
I bet is not about interaction as it is about stimulation. There are many people in awe and shock about galaxies, or cells, or biology, or maths, or other parts of reality, as they are about celebrities, movies, fantasy stories and other things they cannot touch, interact with. It is all about what you stimulate people, culturally, to be interested in.
Like climate change, there are many who react to this bad piece of "news" and are active about trying to do something about it. Where is that motivation coming from since they seem to have no impact on the course of it anyway? It comes from whatever these people have in their heads. That motivates them.
If you don't feel like doing anything about the climate issue then it is all because you may not realize the importance of it or whatever makes you think is not worth your energy. But in the end is all about what we have in our brains, and that comes form the environment (culture). And this culture/system is a lot, if not most, about consumption and stupid things, so that's what people have in their brains. Of course they cannot get too excited about galaxies or atoms, but they get a lot of excitement when Prince H marries with Princess A, or about some fictional TV show. These are advertised to them a lot.
People used to get married with their cousins or even closer relatives not long ago. It was normal. I think even Darwin married his cousin. Now because of some cultural shits and knowing that it is a bad idea (genetically speaking) to mate with closer relatives, this notion seems disgusting for many. Discoveries, bits of reality, can change and should change the way we think about mundane things.
Knowing that we are all made out of atoms should make us rethink our culturally inherited values such as fictional borders, human behavior, man made laws, and so forth. Why? Because we are part of a greater story and we are all part of the same system. A planet, an ecosystem, dependent on nature, and so forth.
Simply because there is no nature about these things.
Even today there are tribes where children are raised by the entire community and have no notions of parents. Or their relationships are vastly different from the rest of the "civilized" world.
Humans are like plasticine molded by their environment. It is simply that our culture/system is the same for thousands of years: trade, have jobs, mate, have kids, retire, die. Humans are busy at least 8h every day, and when they finish work/school they are so tired that at the best they can chew is simplistic and dumbed down media produced by the same system of trade (workers) trying to sell stuff. It is a self propelled idiocracy that makes people unable to know and digest the complexity of reality that science is discovering. I think that's a better explanation of this situation.
Imagine you take a fish from the sea and the fish could suddenly talk and understand you. You explain to him about the world, the planet, the water, the evolution. If they fish is not even curious, let alone shocked about what you enlighten him with, then I think we should probably consider the fish as non-intelligent, or incapable of understanding. No?
You put the fish back in the sea and he goes on about being a fish for the rest of his life. Why would anything change for him no?
To me this makes the fish look "stupid". Primitive. Incapable of grasping a greater reality.
With humans is different since we know they have the capacity to wonder about greater things that they cannot touch or even see. They are capable. So when they are not touched by mindblowing discoveries about reality, then it is a different explanation as of why that is, rather than "it is normal" or they are "incapable" of grasping. Again, looking at the system of trade, this society we live in, I think we can understand, as I explained, why they are not touched much about reality, but are very touched about all sort of things: fictional stories, movies, consumerism, etc..
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